(XLNT ?) Why should buying a gun be any easier than having an abortion?"

[kpete]

This is Linda from Oklahoma:

"Why do lawmakers make it harder and harder to get an abortion, even in the cases where the mother will die, but easier and easier to get a gun? Do they only care about a life before it is born?

Why don't gun buyers have to follow the same rules women are forced to follow? Wait 48 hours after applying. View on ultrasound of a body with a bullet in it. Listen to the heartbeat of someone as they die of a gunshot wound. Get a lecture from a surgeon on what it is like to operate on a gunshot wound. After all that, if a person still wants a gun, he or she can buy one. Why should buying a gun be any easier than having an abortion?"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/29/1078832/-Best-Comment-of-the-Year

[niyad]

1. k and r +1 gazillion

[RC]

7. Only a gazillion? I'll see that and double it!

The dealers of the death machines need to be reined in. Killing each other needs to be made uncool. And yes, there is a connection between the number of killing machines and the killings.

[DonP]

20. "connection between the number of killing machines and the killings"

There is a connection ... but you're not gonna like it.

Gun sales, excuse me, DEATH MACHINE sales have reached all time highs and according to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, violent crime, including crime with guns is at a 40 year low. With all those guns out there, you've never been safer. I know you were hoping for a more sanguine answer, but those are the facts.

But, then again, everybody knows the FBI under Holder is in the thrall of those evil NRA bastids.

[X_Digger]

27. Actually, no there is no correlation..

The homicide rate in the US in 1991 was 9.8 per 100,000 (24,700 murders, 16,578 via gun). In 2010? 4.8 per 100,000 (12,996 murders, 8,775 by firearm). That's an over 50% drop in the number of firearms homicides as well as the rate.

http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=daaSearch/Crime/State/StateCrime.cfm
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/tables/weaponstab.cfm
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010


From 1998 to today, there have been an additional 144,000,000 gun background checks performed.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/20120301_TotalNICSBackgroundChecks.pdf

[appal_jack]

46. (figurative) UNREC

Last edited Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:01 PM - Edit history (1)

The solution to 'Hey they're taking reproductive freedom away from women!' is not 'Hey, let's take away some more rights, like self defense, and freedoms guaranteed in the 2nd Amendment!'

This OP is a literal FAIL, so I'm leaving a figurative unrec up here.

-app

[james_madison]

98. completely unrelated topics

such a list of comparisons then, is endless (not to mention mindless)

one is in the constitution and the other isn't

[truebrit71]

2. Have you tried getting a gun in Illinois lately...???

Not so easy...

[niyad]

4. and isn't that the whole point of the OP?

[truebrit71]

78. The OP was making the point that is easier to get a gun than an abortion...

...that is most definitely NOT the case here in Illinois...

[kpete]

5. no

here in California,
we rather use flowers...

peace, kpete

[truebrit71]

79. Kinda hard to hit a target at 25 yards with a flower though....

...unless it was a very big, or heavy flower I suppose.... :-D

[slackmaster]

3. There's a 10-day wait to buy a gun in my state

And you have to produce not only a state-issued ID but two additional pieces of proof of residence.

[niyad]

6. are there time-sensitive issues in owning a gun?

[belcffub]

8. sometimes...

[hack89]

9. Ask the women who has just put a restraining order on an abusive husband. nt

[-..__...]

39. And she better hope and pray...

that the waiting period for her to pick-up her firearm expires before her abuser exacts revenge.

[Kolesar]

57. Is she forced to wait in a public courtyard until the gun paperwork clears?

What pernicious nonsense, whatever the %^*% your screen name is.

[-..__...]

74. Yes...

God forbid a woman should have to rely on a firearm in order to protect herself from an attacker.

%^*%

Coincidentally... that was my previous DU screen name.

[RC]

11. Yes there are.

And it usually involves stopping someone else's time. Guns are too often a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

[slackmaster]

12. Not usually, but why should someone have to wait to exercise ANY civil right?

BTW I usually get around it by buying firearms by Internet or mail order from other states. It's a privilege of my Federal Firearms License, but I had to pay for that and submit to a federal background check. I also had to submit a full set of fingerprints (now the FBI has four sets of mine.)

[Kolesar]

58. "civil right" one of the gun crazies favorite words lately

By extension, I suppose this is the exact same issue as ending slavery

[slackmaster]

68. You have it exactly backwards. The slaves' ability to excercise freedom was delayed.

[hack89]

76. What other kind of right does the Bill of Rights contain? nt

[cleanhippie]

21. Are Constitutional Rights time-sensitive?

[Kolesar]

59. That's the other word! eom

[cleanhippie]

73. What other word?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

23. Are there?

Who needs a gun so badly that they can't simply wait for one for a few days and why?

[EOTE]

25. But I'm angry now! NT

[TheWraith]

32. Ask the woman with the violent stalker. nt

[Proud Liberal Dem]

36. Would there be a reason

that the police wouldn't be involved in such a scenario?

[X_Digger]

37. Yes, you can get a restratining order, and the cops will tell you to call them if he violates it.

They won't follow you around to make sure you're safe.

So what do you do in the 9 to 45 minutes that it takes for them to get there when he's beating down your door?

Wave the restraining order at him?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

47. So

No other possible way to resolve this kind of scenario? Just as long as you can go right out and buy a gun, everything will be fine- in this hypothetical scenario?

[X_Digger]

48. You seemed to suggest that the best recourse was calling the police.

I presented you with the reality of what happens when you call the police- both on the initial threat, and then later when a stalker violates that restraining order.

Nowhere did I say that this is the only possible way, nor that everything will be fine. How you got that from my post is.. unclear.. to say the least.

But to put your safety in the hands of police who very likely won't be around when you need them is rather naive.

Not only will the police likely not be there to protect you, they have no legal obligation to do so.

[Kolesar]

60. ^Pernicious and loaded misstatement of the public safety issue

I suppose she has key minutes to get a gun in her hand because the stalker is only twelve blocks away and closing fast

[-..__...]

42. Firearms purchased through an FFL at a gun show as one example

A typical gun show runs two-three days at most.

If someone makes a purchase on any of those days, how do you propose they take possession of the firearm if a waiting period is required?

If the purpose of a waiting period is to prevent crimes of passion/heat of the moment situations, what's the sense of requiring a person who already owns one or more firearms to repeat the process every time a purchase is made?

[ZombieHorde]

33. Hunting seasons are time limited. nt

[The Straight Story]

10. Getting a gun does not mean you are killing/terminating someone or something

It can be for sport shooting. Abortion only does one thing (and no, I am not anti-abortion, I am one of those people who actually believes in the phrase 'your body, your choice' on many issues and not just one).

For the suggested to work we would have to show ulrtasound/etc to people who wanted to buy condoms or have sex in general.

[el_bryanto]

13. I remember talking with a pro-gun friend about this

I should say I generally am opposed to more strict laws than we currently have; close a few loopholes and I'm ok with them. But I was pointing out that a guy who comes into a shop and says "I need a gun immediately!" probably shouldn't have a gun. He had to agree with that assessment.

Bryant

[mac56]

34. To quote Homer Simpson:

"Seven days?! But I'm mad now!"

[hack89]

14. There is a 7 day waiting period to buy any gun in Rhode Island

and you must pay for and pass a state mandated gun safety course.

[OPOS]

15. In Nassau County it takes 11.5 Months for the interview

to have a Handgun permit. You really want that process for abortions? IN NYC takes about 6 months minimum, Suffolk co. also 6 months. This just for the interviews. One still goes through a federal NICCS check and fills out a ATF form 4473. The article is a stupid comparison frankly.

[kath]

16. In OK (& probably lots of other redneck states) you can buy a gun at an estate sale or gunshow

without any waiting period or background check at all.
Lovely.

[The Straight Story]

18. I guess you could call those 'back alley' gun purchases (nt)

[Johnny Rico]

22. In Colorado there is a CBI background check when buying a gun at a gunshow or from a dealer.

No background check needed for a private transaction, and no waiting period in any case...thankfully!

[aptal]

26. Seriously? "Redneck States"....

That is a pretty insensitive comment. Maybe you should read the TOS sometimes.

I am what some would call a Redneck from a Redneck state. That doesn't make me any less of a person that you.

[obxhead]

30. Southern bashing is acceptable and sometimes even encouraged on DU.

It's just a sad fact of life here. Hate is generally banned here, except for hate of people from the south.

[aptal]

38. Apparently...

It's ridiculous.

[kath]

96. Hey, I live here (OK) & I'm a liberal - an FDR/LBJ-type real Democrat, and living here sucks. Yeah,

there are a tiny few of us libs here, few and far between, but being in Oklahoma sucks ass. Big time. I'll call 'em as I see 'em - the vast, vast majority of people here are ignorant and DAMNED proud of it. And not even ONE county in OK went for Obama - a distinction shared by NO other state.

It is always a treat to come across a liberal here in Okie-hell, and good discussion ensues when I meet one. It just doesn't happen very often.

[Lizzie Poppet]

83. Yeah, private sales are a sticking point.

I wholeheartedly approve of the instant background check system, but I've never been able to see an effective, practical way to get it to apply to private sales. It's a pity. Background checks almost certainly only catch the most sub-moronic of criminals (who's going to try to make the purchase when they know they'll get denied and that the police might be called?), but the instant check system is a barrier to at least some avenues by which ineligible people might get guns...and one that's no infringement on the right of legit gun owners.

[virginia mountainman]

17. Clearly the OP has never bought a gun...

If they had, they would have never made this post, and would have understood how laughable it is.

[Remmah2]

43. Maybe we should have a 5 day waiting period before sex, a background check and paperwork.

And 21 being the legal age.

The BATF could become the Brothel Alcohol Tobacco and Fornication dept.

[obxhead]

51. Yes clearly.

A waiting period with a background check is so much more invasive than a transvaginal ultrasound, a 24 to 72 hour time of reflection and then the actual procedure.

I feel so sorry for the horrors a gun buyer has to go through.

[hack89]

54. The point is that the OP is wrong

in many states it is harder to get a gun than an abortion. For example, where I live there is a 7 day waiting period.

I share your outrage that states try so hard to obstacles in front of those wanting to exercise their Constitutional rights. It should be condemned in every instance - it should be be easy to get both a gun and an abortion.

[Kolesar]

62. And you won't be happy until that number of states is zero

Of course, then I suppose you will move on to *important* issues like getting guns onto school buses.

[hack89]

63. Why would I want to do that?

the present age limits on guns is perfectly fine.

I am happy with the present gun laws. They seem to be working just fine as evidenced by the historically low levels of gun violence America has been experiencing for the past decade.

[Kolesar]

65. Because if you are not raging about guns, you have no issues to talk about eom

[hack89]

70. I am not raging. No need to.

It's not like gun control is a pressing political issue in America - that war has been fought and lost.

I am very happy with the present state of affairs.

[Lizzie Poppet]

82. Background checks are wonderful.

Waiting periods are utterly pointless.

That said, there should be zero "red tape" barriers to abortions services. None.

[kpete]

85. obxhead

thank you so much for "recognizing" the irony in all of this...

peace, kpete

[Kolesar]

61. One lame sentence as a response.

You have said nothing.

[kpete]

84. do

glue guns count?

peace, kpete

[Proud Liberal Dem]

19. Excellent question

There doesn't seem to be any reasonable restrictions when it comes to buying guns that aren't immediately denounced as profoundly dangerous to the 2nd Amendment RKBA but the same group of people don't have any problems with disrespecting the other Amendments to our Constitution and see nothing dangerous about big government forcing themselves into womens vaginas and people's bedrooms in general. And their concern about "big government" getting in between patients and their doctors hits the hypocrisy jackpot, particularly when they pass laws telling doctors what to do and what they can/can't tell their female patients about their pregnancies. Where is the AMA and other medical organizations when it comes to these kind of laws? Some of them loudly denounced ACA but seem noticeably silent about these other kinds of REAL intrusions on their practice of medicine.

I'd also like to know why Republicans think it's an abomination that the government can require people to purchase health insurance but then turn around and force women seeking a LEGAL abortion to have purchase a separate and totally UNNECESSARY medical procedure (i.e. ultrasound). I know that they probably have some convoluted logic to explain it but it just seems more than a tad hypocritical to me. The Republican Party and its supporters and allies are nothing if not a plethora of contradictions IMHO.

[freshwest]

92. +1,000

[bart95]

24. because you cant do an abortion with a gun

obvious, isnt it?

[saras]

28. I saw 100,000 or more people (always bad guys) blown away with guns by age 10. How many abortions?

Mass media is a wonderful thing for building inflexible worldviews.

If they'd have called abortion "downsizing" everything would be different.

[Remmah2]

41. (Media is pretend.)

If men shot blanks, abortions wouldn't be necessary.

[Kolesar]

66. Wow. Worked real hard on that one, didn't you?

[freshwest]

93. Got it.

[obxhead]

29. They want to control women.

They do not care about the fetus or the child either. They have absolutely zero concern for life in any way. Abortion laws are about controlling women, not forcing birth.

[Atypical Liberal]

31. This is a false dichotomy. Both should be easy for law-abiding people to obtain.

Why should buying a gun be any easier than having an abortion?"

This is a false dichotomy. Both should be easy for law-abiding people to obtain.

"Why do lawmakers make it harder and harder to get an abortion, even in the cases where the mother will die, but easier and easier to get a gun? Do they only care about a life before it is born?

Here's the (obvious) answer:

Conservatives don't really give a shit about life. Claims at being "pro-life" are bullshit. Their real goal is to punish women for having the audacity to have premarital sex. For not using an aspirin to keep their knees together.

If they really cared about life, they would care to make sure that the children born to women - especially women who know they can't afford to have children - are supported in a manner such that their mothers don't have to consider abortion as an option in the first place.

If they really cared about life, they'd make it so that abortion was never necessary, by having adequate social support programs for mothers and children before and after birth.

But the reality is they view such people as parasites. They don't want to support them before or after birth. They simply want to punish women for fucking. Get pregnant? Too bad - that's your punishment for fucking. Have your life destroyed and career prospects diminished because you got pregnant? Too bad - that's your punishment for fucking.

Restrictions on abortions aren't about life. They are about trying to control fucking.

[friendly_iconoclast]

90. Word! Amazing the number of people that want to control others' rights, and then act hurt...

...when the 'others' do the same unto them...

[BlancheSplanchnik]

35. Why? Because **MEN** WANT THEM.

Simple.


(Yes, this is the best comment I've ever seen!)

[JDPriestly]

40. Why does Zimmerman look so neat in the video, and why do the police

treat him so politely when the Occupiers looked so beat up and were treated so badly when they were arrested? I'm talking about the Occupiers who did not resist arrest.

There is something wrong here. Do the police act more gently when arresting someone with quite an arrest record?

Is killing someone with a gun more deserving of brutality than peacefully demonstrating?

Compare the treatment. Even in LA where the Occupiers had gone through training in nonviolence and acted completely without violence, they were treated more roughly than Zimmerman was treated. Zimmerman was arrested at the scene of a murder, a murder he had committed. Something is very wrong in this country.

[Remmah2]

44. Women should have a right to choose in either case. nt

nt

[DallasNE]

45. And Why Is Buying A Gun Easier Than Registering To Vote

In Florida the League of Women Voters has abandon their long-time practice of registering to vote because the hurdles are insurmountable. Talk about big government.

[Remmah2]

99. More irony.

I can register to vote at the DMV and library, can't buy a gun there. Funny, both my kids had no problems registering to vote either. When we moved last year it took about a minute per person to re-register.

Honestly, have you ever filed for a CCW permit, ever fill out a 4473, ever had to wait on a NICS check? On a comparitive basis registering to vote is way easier and less time consuming.

[MicaelS]

49. Do you have to have a criminal background check

Before having an abortion?

If you are a fugitive from justice, can you be prevented from having an abortion?

If you are under indictment of a crime for which you can be imprisoned for more than 1 year, can you be prevented from having an abortion?

If you have been imprisoned for more than 1 year, can you be prevented from having an abortion?

If you are under a restraining order for harassment or stalking, can you be prevented from having an abortion?

If you have been convicted of a misdemeanor act of domestic violence, can you be prevented from having an abortion?

If you are an unlawful user of drugs, can you be prevented from having an abortion?

If you have been dishonorably discharged from the US Armed Forces, can you be prevented from having an abortion?

If you have ever been adjudicated mentally defective or been committed to a mental institution, can you be prevented from having an abortion?

If you are an alien illegally in the US, can you be prevented from having an abortion?

If you have ever renounced your US Citizenship, can you be prevented from having an abortion?

How many YES answers above will prevent you from having an abortion?

Substitute the phrase BUYING A GUN for HAVING AN ABORTION, and answer YES to any of those questions, and you cannot buy a gun.

[gopiscrap]

50. Agree

other than hunting rifles all other guns should be banned!!!! Watch me get a ration of shit for this statemet!!!!!!!

[Travelman]

52. Obviously, Linda has not actually bought a gun

If she had, she wouldn't make such a foolish comment.

[Swede Atlanta]

53. Because the gun nuts............

believe that owning a gun is not only a Constitutional right (I think any 3rd grader reading the Constitution can see that this right is in the context of needing a well-regulated militia and not for personal purposes) but also gets them closer to Jesus. You have all read the sections of the Bible where Jesus talks about owning and using a gun as being the next best thing to loving God.

But they don't believe there is a Constitutional right for a woman to make decisions that affect her own physical and emotional body.

[hack89]

72. I believe in a woman's right to choose and the 2A

I am also an atheist. And a Democrat.

[Lizzie Poppet]

80. Which is why 3rd graders don't make these decisions.

"I think any 3rd grader reading the Constitution can see that this right is in the context of needing a well-regulated militia and not for personal purposes"

Congratulations: you just nailed down a third-grade level analysis of the language of the amendment. Fortunately, the analyses that actually matter are conducted by people with a rather more sophisticated grasp of linguistics (and the law). It's clearly an individual right, as both linguistic analysis and case law have proven. Repeatedly.

Oh...pro-choice atheist here, btw.

[truebrit71]

81. Is that ALL gun nuts, or just the republican ones? I wanted to see just how big that broom was...

..that you are using for the sweeping generalization...

[cliffordu]

55. [phone]

K&R

[Hoyt]

56. I wish right wing legislators would turn their ire toward NRA and other right wing gun organizations

that help manufacturers market the latest and greatest lethal weapons to people they scare into believe Obama is going to take their guns or they are going to be robbed/killed by the bogeymen hiding behind every tree. Tbaggers like guns because they are great for intimidation.

[Kolesar]

64. The right wing only succeeds with divisive scary issues like guns.

There are in opposition to the public with most of their other positions. For example, RW leader Paul Ryan wants to end the Medicare system. How many "born in the 1930s" regular voting Republicans are ok with that?

[montanto]

67. Good thing the year is still young.

Why equate abortion rights with gun rights? If we are to make any progress in women's rights on the abortion front, making this type of argument isn't going to get us anywhere. For pro-life, pro-gun right wingers, this argument is dismissed as bullshit. They won't look at it twice. It appeals to those of us on the left who love invidious distinction and any opportunity to carp about 2nd amendment rights. Witness how many of the reply posts are about guns, not about abortion. Sheesh. They aren't even remotely the same thing, and arguing for some sort of proportionality between them is an argument for nothing at all. The choir loves the sermon though. Some of us pro-choice (in all things) lefties would like to see each choice argued on its own merits, rather than bundled with something else that we are supposed to hate and rammed down our throats. Here's to hoping that we on the left might come up with a "better" best-comment-of-the-year.

[arthritisR_US]

69. Because they are pro fetus NOT pro life! n/t

[sudopod]

75. Everyone in this thread who thinks that enduring a waiting period before buying their next

boom stick is harder than being raped by the state needs to have their fucking head examined.

[hack89]

77. There is no comparison - you are right.

but most of us are merely pointing out that buying a gun is not as easy as the OP says.

Both should be easy.

[Papagoose]

86. I am 100% pro-choice...

This is not a fair analogy, and I repeat, I am 100% pro-choice.

Abortion ends a pregnancy. Use of a gun does not always end in a person being shot.

I use my gun regularly, but I have never aimed or fired it at a living thing, nor do I have any plans to.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

87. SIMPLE - MEN GET WHAT THEY WANT AND WOMEN UNFORTUNATELY DON'T

SEXISM.

[Remmah2]

97. Oh the irony.

People get what they work for.

[baldguy]

88. Because the NRA/GOP/Top 1% wants more guns in the hands of more of the 99%.

Not so the 99% can defend themselves, but to make it easier for the 99% to kill each other. It's an acceptable way to control the "excess population".

[fascisthunter]

89. because people who NEED guns are speshulllll

[friendly_iconoclast]

91. "Why are *our* civil rights being infringed"? Perhaps because you're willing to infringe "those...

...people's" rights- you know, the ones you don't like? Both sides should quit trying to serve dishes they don't want to eat...

[cherokeeprogressive]

94. Isn't it possible to get an abortion @ <18 without parental consent in lots of places?

I don't think it's legal to sell a gun to someone < 18 y.o. anywhere.

[MADem]

95. Any one who wants to buy a gun should be required to bend over and try to shove their head up their

ass. If they are successful, they should be denied the permit.

[Taitertots]

100. Why would anyone believe that obvious lie?

Background checks for abortion? There are background checks for guns.
No abortions for felons? Felons are prohibited from owning guns.
No abortions for the mentally disabled? Those adjudicated mentally unfit are prohibited from owning guns.


Sounds like getting a gun is significantly more difficult than getting an abortion. Why do people believe/circulate obvious lies?