Been reading a lot here on Trayvon/Zimmerman. Here's what upsets me.

[uppityperson]

What the issue comes down to for me is that the police simply let Zimmerman go, the DA didn't do anything and they didn't investigate further until media attention brought it out to the public to be outraged about.

Of course having Trayvon killed is awful. Of course there are conflicting reports. Of course there are people defending Zimmerman. Or course race played a part in it. Of course there is background. Of course stories are changing.

But what REALLY gets me is that the police simply let him go.

They took Zimmerman in, questioned him, let him go.

THAT is what really pisses me off.

I want a full investigation not only of this incident between Martin and Zimmerman, but of WTF happened to the "investigation" afterwards. I want those involved charged with what they can be charged with and to go to trial.I want investigations of how far up this "leave it alone" thing went. I want all sorts of heads to roll over this.

Investigation, charges, trial. Not "oh, ok, off you go."

[slackmaster]

1. Sanford PD announced on 2/29 that they planned to turn it over to the SA, and on 3/12 they did

See the Update1 and Update2 links on the "Trayvon Martin Investigation" page at http://www.sanfordfl.gov/index.html

[no_hypocrisy]

2. I agree.

Isn't the act of taking someone into custody partly for the sake of investigation, to preserve fresh memories of what happened, to challenge inconsistencies and contradictions? You have a trial after the arrest to determine what probably happened.

[CAPHAVOC]

4. To "take in to custody"

There has to be a warrant. Issued by the State Attorney. The Police can not arrest people without it.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. And there was enough conflicting information to justify that warrant being issued.

[uppityperson]

7. Yup. This keeps going higher and higher up.

[zbdent]

6. Okay, so "take in to custody" was not worded right ...

how about "brought in for questioning", when you're standing there over a body with a smoking gun?

edited to add:

I'm sure there are a lot of individuals (suspected of shooting someone) who just happened to be standing around with a weapon, in a location where a dead person was lying (wound suspiciously similar to what the weapon held by the individual might incur), who were "brought in for questioning" without a warrant ...

[X_Digger]

9. He was "brought in for questioning", too.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

[robinlynne]

34. he was "questioned" for 3 hours at the police station. but not arrested.

[TheWraith]

14. That's not accurate.

The police can in fact take someone into custody for investigative purposes WITHOUT requiring an arrest warrant. This isn't actually "arresting" them, but rather detaining them as a material witness to a crime or potential crime. While it's technically not supposed to be used on suspects, it's common practice for the police to do this while an investigation into an alleged felony is taking place, before they have evidence to arrest the person for an actual crime. Most states have a limit on how long someone can be detained this way of 24 or 48 hours, but that's plenty in most situations.

[CAPHAVOC]

22. I am not aware of that.

I thought a person had to be under arrest.

[TheWraith]

24. Technically, they're supposed to be.

Material witness laws are supposed to be used to secure witnesses and testimony, not suspects. But there's a fine line in the initial stages of an investigation between "witnesses" and "suspects."

[CAPHAVOC]

29. The suspect

before arrest is considered a witness? Or could be?

Also do you think the Prosecutors are maybe a little Gun Shy to proceed without an airtight case at this point? The media Madness of Casey Anthony is fresh in the minds of the State Atty's in Central Florida. It has already begun on HLN. Jose Baez is lurking nearby.

[TheWraith]

32. They could be considered a witness, yes.

Although it is, generally speaking, a polite fiction on the part of the police to grab someone they need to hold onto for a day or two.

As far as gun shy about getting into a clusterfuck of a case, it's possible. But I still think that reason number one was the Sanford PD's deliberate mismanagement.

[grasswire]

3. George has always been "let go"

He probably was released on the fact that his father pulls strings for him. Always has. There is no other explanation for his three prior arrests resulting in nothing.

I also believe there is some deep corruption in the PD. And we will soon know whether State Attorney is a fixer or honest.

[Baitball Blogger]

19. One comment that you hear that signals that you're living in a good ole boy community:

When a power mom tells you, "I know who to talk to if there's anything I need done."

Read that as: I know who to talk to if I need to get around red government tape. And it's not so much what they say, as how they say it. They feel important because they have contacts that know how to skirt the process.

So, yes. They do know that they have access to something that nobody else does. And to make it worse, one person, who was white mind you, said this when they finally moved into a house: "I finally feel like I'm living like a white man."

You want justice for Trayvon Martin? You can start by doing what you've been doing. Keep asking yourself, what happened to the process? It's the question we all ask on a daily basis, because we know it's the exceptions to the rule that create that slippery slope feeling that we live under.

[maddezmom]

8. some good details here

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/source-sanford-police-chief-state-attorney-made-zimmerman-no-charge-call-in-person.php

[uppityperson]

10. Thank you.

[Baitball Blogger]

27. Could this possibly be Norm Wolfinger's final hurrah?

He's been here since 1984. That was the turning point for Central Florida. That was when an extreme property rights group took root in the area, which included judges and political figures.

Now I have to wonder. Did someone call Wolfinger to step in and handle this personally? Can his phone records be subpoenaed? Would that be kosher given the situation?

[hfojvt]

11. I believe they have procedures and legal restrictions.

Zimmerman told a story of self defense. Evidence told a story of self defense. Witnesses told a story of self defense. How long should they continue to investigate?

They could not, nor do I think they should be able to, hold Zimmerman indefinitely without pressing charges. Accused people have rights. Citizens have rights. And I am glad we do.

You say that the police "simply let Zimmerman go". But what is the truth? How many people spent how many hours investigating? How many times was he questioned? Were they still investigating even before they found Trayvon's parents, or was the case considered closed? How much time, resources, do they have to keep investigating all incidences until everyone is satisfied?

[uppityperson]

13. What "Evidence told a story of self defense"? Witnesses ALSO told a story of stalking and

murder. Turns out police said they had enough evidence to charge him with at least manslaughter but he was...let go when higher ups did nothing.

[X_Digger]

16. Yeah, I banged my head on the table at one 'arrest him while they investigate' comment.

I understand that emotions are running high, but that's no reason to run roughshod over our legal protections.

[uppityperson]

17. Police Wanted Warrant To Arrest George Zimmerman, Prosecutor Says

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/28/trayvon-martin-case-polic_n_1384301.html?ref=topbar

The special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case said that the Sanford Police Department asked the state attorney's office for an arrest warrant to charge George Zimmerman early in the investigation, but the state's attorney's office decided to wait.

The Miami Herald reported that the local police initially went to the Seminole State Attorney with a request to file charges and the police report labeled the case as "homicide/negligent manslaughter."
(clip)
Chris Serino, the lead detective on the case, expressed doubts around Zimmerman's account of the shooting, according to ABC News. Serino filed an affidavit on the night of the shooting in which he said that he was unconvinced of Zimmerman's version of events.

Serino told MSNBC Tuesday night that he was not at liberty to discuss the case, but he feels very encouraged by the new investigation into the shooting, and he was "looking forward to the truth coming out."

[X_Digger]

20. *wanted* a warrant to *arrest*.

You don't go around arresting people without one of those. Police can detain a person for a certain amount of time, while they investigate, but they can't just arrest people without warrant.

[uppityperson]

21. I know. MY point is expressed well by this poster @ this link...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002484913#post3

And yes, I see who that poster is.

[X_Digger]

23. Sorry then, friendly fire. :) n/t

[gateley]

26. But we've heard (from law enforcement 'experts') that it's SOP to blood test the

shooter, to take ballistic tests (or whatever they're called), to actually ENGAGE in an investigation.

Regardless of whether or not they believed the shooting may have been justified, shouldn't certain procedures have been followed? It appears as though they weren't. Although the "information" we're getting from the authorities there is spotty, to be sure.

[Baitball Blogger]

35. Not just a breach of procedure,

but how did Wolfinger get personally involved that night? Doesn't he work out of the Viera office?

[hfojvt]

49. I have no idea if that is true or if experts can be trusted

Does every police department have the same procedure? Does every state? Should they?

I have my doubts whether any of us civilians, or even people from other departments can know about their procedures and I have some skepticism about what is said on TV, or written in print. Even basic facts have been mis-stated and I do not really know who to trust.

[Baitball Blogger]

12. I always knew this county would continue its low brow manner until it

was put in the national spotlight.

Listen, this is what we all have been living with here in this county. I don't know if the police intentionally pussy foot around sensitive areas in order to keep the political local overlords happy, or if they're the ones that empower the culture of corruption that exists in this county. (aka good ole boys) But until someone in power tells them they're doing something wrong, nothing is going to change around here.

[Rhiannon12866]

15. K&R. Couldn't have said it better...

[Rex]

18. Same here.

I still cannot believe they simply let him go! He murdered a child, guess that doesn't mean much.

[lacrew]

25. Three Days in the Morgue

Trayvon Martin was reported missing less than 24 hours after the shooting...but he wasn't identified for 3 days.

To me, this means the police had it in their head that Trayvon was not from the area...they couldn't even connect the dots between the body and the missing person call, from the same complex.

To me, this means the were looking at Martin as a tresspasser, who did not have any business in the neighborhood.

Obviously, that was a poor assumption.

But, it explains their actions immediately after the shooting, and their bias towards believing Zimmerman's version of events.

[gateley]

28. Yes -- you present this well. Makes sense. nt

[uppityperson]

30. 24 hours, not 3 days. Even at that, still it took way too long.

Last edited Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:49 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.digtriad.com/news/article/221294/175/Why-Didnt-Police-Use-Trayvon-Martins-Cell-Phone-To-Identify-Him

[CAPHAVOC]

31. I was wondering

about that. If he was with his Father who lived a few doors away how could that be? His Father would have had to know. Any ideas? Did his Father know he was missing?

[uppityperson]

33. His father did NOT live a few doors away. They were visiting dad's girlfriend who lived there. (ed)

Last edited Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)

The police did not look at his cell phone to notify anyone. His father knew he was missing, reported him missing the next morning. According to a link downthread, the cops quickly showed up to find out if was the same person.


It still doesn't answer why didn't they look at his cell phone for a number to call? The father said he'd called the cell phone and it went to voicemail. It is all odd.

[CAPHAVOC]

36. Seems strange

Were he and his Father both visiting the Fathers Girlfriend? Or was just Trevan visiting? Did the Father bring him over there and then leave without him? It is confusing.

[uppityperson]

38. Both of them were visiting. Trayvon walked to store for a snack and got killed on way back. (edited)

Last edited Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:51 PM - Edit history (1)

The police had T's cell phone.

Post downthread gives link saying that the father reported him missing the next morning, and police showed up quickly to find out if it was him.

[CAPHAVOC]

39. Seems so. Curious.

But if the Father was there a few doors away it is hard to understand how the Father did not know for 3 days. Maybe it will come out in the final reports.

[uppityperson]

40. Because it was only 24 hours. "3 days" turns out to be incorrect.

[CAPHAVOC]

42. OK TX

I had also heard 3 days.

[Baitball Blogger]

37. But didn't they have Trayvon's cell phone?

How much trouble would it have been to turn it on and track down the owner of the number for his name? Or even look at the cell phone log for 407 calls?

[uppityperson]

41. They did. They didn't. To me it seems they could have, should have. "oh, but that's private!" was th

excuse I've read. They didn't want to intrude on the privacy of a dead druggie young man.

Seriously, I don't understand this and am glad it is getting publicity to force the investigation. I want it to be investigated all the way up, everyone who was involved.

[Baitball Blogger]

43. Of course, you can also put two different facts together.

First, that they didn't do a drug test on Zimmerman.

Second, by not turning on that cellphone, they didn't have to bring in family members who might have had a lawyer within their group who would have understood the importance of getting a drug test within the first 24 hours.

[Baitball Blogger]

44. Oh, and another fact that is sure to cause him trouble...

...what was Norm Wolfinger doing there? I do believe he works out of the Viera office. Not Seminole County.

[uppityperson]

45. Yup. Why. Why why why why why. That is rhetorical.

It makes me wonder why.

[X_Digger]

46. Actually his father reported him missing the next morning..

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20581404,00.html

[div class='excerpt']The next morning, when he woke up, Tracy realized that Trayvon had not returned home.

"I started making calls, and I reached my nephew," Martin says. "He said he hadn't seen Trayvon. Then I really started getting worried. So I called the Sheriff's department to file a missing persons report. I let them know it hadn't been 24 hours, but it was unusual for Trayvon not to return home."

Three police cars soon pulled up

[uppityperson]

47. Thank you. Shortly after he was reported missing, the cops came to notify them.

Thank you for that. I was wrong in that they didn't put 1+1 together to = 1 but that he hadn't been reported missing yet.

[X_Digger]

48. Yeah.. I'm a tad pissed that they didn't check his cell phone, but..

I don't know the procedures they normally follow, and whether this diverged from them.

[butterfly77]

50. And they didn't collect any evidence...

on Zimmerman..

[slackmaster]

52. If they really didn't collect ANY evidence, then there is nothing for the grand jury to review

I'll believe that when the grand jury complains about not having enough information.

[Iliyah]

51. To supercede a lead investigator

who did do the initial investigation and who recommended that Zimmerman should be arrested for manslaughter is quite telling. The investigator did not believe Zommerman's account of what happened and apparently the investigation back that assumption.

I have no trust in the Procecutor appointed by Gov. Scott. She was on HLN, for what I don't know because she said absolutely nothing. Zimmerman's so called friend is a plant paid by someone to distort facts. This shit is effed up and it started with the Sanford Police who is leaking information I guess with the blessing of the city's counsel.

They know they effed up.

[notadmblnd]

53. it is being brought upright now on Al's show.

[wildeyed]

54. And I know, in my heart, that if the role had been reversed,

Trayvon would have been arrested on the spot.