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Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:19 AM

K&R if you intend to keep fighting for single payer regardless what the SCOTUS rules.

I am tired of seeing people feel like giving up.
The battle started with Occupy and will continue as long as we all want to fight for what is right and just.

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Reply K&R if you intend to keep fighting for single payer regardless what the SCOTUS rules. (Original post)
libtodeath Mar 2012 OP
liberal N proud Mar 2012 #1
Ian David Mar 2012 #2
polichick Mar 2012 #3
ProSense Mar 2012 #4
yesphan Mar 2012 #5
Lugnut Mar 2012 #6
shrdlu Mar 2012 #7
libtodeath Mar 2012 #9
loudsue Mar 2012 #20
TahitiNut Mar 2012 #8
HiPointDem Mar 2012 #54
bowens43 Mar 2012 #10
adigal Mar 2012 #11
newspeak Mar 2012 #23
daleanime Mar 2012 #12
kestrel91316 Mar 2012 #13
Fix The Stupid Mar 2012 #14
byronius Mar 2012 #15
ProgressiveATL Mar 2012 #16
ProgressiveATL Mar 2012 #17
abelenkpe Mar 2012 #18
villager Mar 2012 #19
libtodeath Mar 2012 #24
Cleita Mar 2012 #21
ClassWarrior Mar 2012 #22
lsewpershad Mar 2012 #25
librechik Mar 2012 #26
Granny M Mar 2012 #27
Jack Rabbit Mar 2012 #28
tcaudilllg Mar 2012 #29
Iliyah Mar 2012 #30
Rhiannon12866 Mar 2012 #31
eridani Mar 2012 #32
Chorophyll Mar 2012 #33
TriMera Mar 2012 #34
Vincardog Mar 2012 #35
hwmnbn Mar 2012 #36
RufusTFirefly Mar 2012 #37
patrice Mar 2012 #38
kenny blankenship Mar 2012 #39
Luminous Animal Mar 2012 #40
Uncle Joe Mar 2012 #41
DonCoquixote Mar 2012 #42
TheKentuckian Mar 2012 #43
goclark Mar 2012 #44
Volaris Mar 2012 #45
donheld Mar 2012 #46
Blue_In_AK Mar 2012 #47
Yo_Mama Mar 2012 #48
DesertFlower Mar 2012 #49
mahina Mar 2012 #50
me b zola Mar 2012 #51
caseymoz Mar 2012 #52
lovemydog Mar 2012 #53
onestepforward Mar 2012 #55
Esse Quam Videri Mar 2012 #56
Lifelong Protester Mar 2012 #57
chazzio Mar 2012 #58
Tippy Mar 2012 #59
bigwillq Mar 2012 #60
mmonk Mar 2012 #61
libtodeath Mar 2012 #65
SHRED Mar 2012 #62
thucythucy Mar 2012 #63
jwirr Mar 2012 #64

Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:23 AM

1. K&R

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:23 AM

2. K&R!



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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:24 AM

3. I think the case for single payer will be made if the S. Court rules...

...against the current approach.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:27 AM

4. No one

should ever give up.

Still, consider the expansion of Medicaid under the health care law.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002483563

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:28 AM

5. K & R

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:33 AM

6. K&R n/t

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:41 AM

7. Health care...

...not health insurance, should be the objective. As long as for-profit insurance is in the mix meaningful reform is very unlikely.

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Response to shrdlu (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:01 AM

9. Agreed and all part of the fight

we must change the narrative so that insurance is not the accepted normal.

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Response to shrdlu (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:31 PM

20. Absolutely. The real focus here should be to do away with health insurance companies

altogether. They're an abomination, in the big scheme of things.

If we really started hitting hardest on the insurance companies, either the rest of the country would get on board, in spite of the propaganda, or the insurance companies would be frightened into acting more responsibly, rather than be shuttered altogether.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:45 AM

8. The immense wealth (= political clout) of the insurance industry is aligned against "real people."

If the corporate "people" needed medical care (instead of mere transfusions of cash) we'd be awash in single-payer. But, it deserves mentioning, corporate "people" HAVE single-payer corporate health care in the form of bailouts and the tax code.

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Response to TahitiNut (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 04:06 AM

54. It's my impression that the insurance industry is highly concentrated, such that a relatively small

 

number of people control it and there's no real competition. That in combination with mandated purchase = no control on prices, sellers free to charge whatever the hell they like.

"A major cause of these burdensome premium hikes is the tremendous monopolies enjoyed by insurance companies across the country. Two large insurance companies cornered 98% of the market in Hawaii 2007. In California, the most competitive of the states surveyed, two insurance companies controlled 44% of the market. All across the United States, these insurers have no incentive to negotiate lower premiums because, like any monopoly, they know they are the only game in town."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/32918263

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:06 AM

10. Of course that's what we need.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:06 AM

11. I will never give up - health care is a basic human right. n/t

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Response to adigal (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:37 PM

23. yes, health care is a basic human right

that other industrialized nations appear to understand. They actually care about their fellow citizens. I think this country cares more about greed. When ceos are paid 400 times the employee (not seen in other industrialized nations), then we have a major problem of what it means to be a responsible member of society.

my hubby's right wing cousin married a canadian. Last time he visited, my jaw dropped. He talked about how he got paid more in canada and how he will never have to worry about healthcare. Before that visit, he still had the "everyone for themselves", ayn randian mindset.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:09 AM

12. Hell yes!

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:35 AM

13. I have believed all along that "health care reform" like we got

would prove to be grossly inadequate and ultimately fail, and that would be a huge driver toward Single Payer. As the fixes they put in place merely prove to increase medical insurer profits, and more and more people face medical bankruptcy in spite of being insured, the system will collapse of its own weight and the majority will be SCREAMING for Single Payer.

I hope to see it in my lifetime. I make sure whenever the topic comes up in conversation that I put in a plug for Single Payer - my clients are always complaining about their crappy, expensive insurance plans, and then I tell them I am among the uninsured, and the wheels in their little heads really start turning.

Lots of people are open to the idea now, and it's only going to get more popular as everything involving medical insurance for profit goes to sh-t.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:39 AM

14. Don't give up my neighbours to the South.


Keep up the good fight.

Single payer is the only way.

Profit must be taken out of Healthcare.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:51 AM

15. Someday. Someday we as a nation won't be so fucking ignorant.

I won't give up.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:07 PM

16. WOOT!

Roughly one out of two people access health insurance through employer. In 2000, it was two out of three people. Huge drop, and that trend continues. Much of the slack is and will continue to be picked up by government-funded programs, and that need will continue to grow. At some point it, this unworkable system will collapse and a national pooling of risk (medicare-for-all) will be the only workable solution. Because of rising insurance costs, that might well happen within a decade or two.

40 million were without health insurance when all the new plan talk started a few years ago. I've read estimates it's up to about 80 million now, folks without any or with far too little health insurance.

And by 2033, health insurance premiums will surpass household income: http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=155840

And as recently as 1989, conservatives were for a "socialist" single-payer solution too:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/27/why-the-right-turned-its-back-on-the-individual-mandate.html

“There is an implicit contract between households in society, based on the notion that health insurance is not like other forms of insurance protection. If a young man wrecks his Porsche and does not have the foresight to obtain insurance, we may commiserate but society feels no obligation to repair his car. Healthcare is different. If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street, Americans will care for him whether or not he has insurance. If we find that he has spent his money on other things rather than insurance, we may be angry but we will not deny him services – even if that means more prudent citizens end up paying the tab … A mandate on individuals recognizes this implicit contract.”

Two-thirds of Americans support Medicare-for-all: http://pnhp.org/blog/2009/12/09/two-thirds-support-3/

"The more people know about single-payer, the more likely they are to support it. We see this pattern when we compare the “jury” results with poll results, and we see it when we compare polls that show high levels of support for single-payer with those that don’t."

It's time for a single-payer variant.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:11 PM

17. And single-payer obviates need for mandate, and thus the legal concern at center of fray

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:25 PM

18. K&R

It's inevitable but will certainly keep fighting for it.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:28 PM

19. The battle will be to get single payer at the state level...

...which is probably the battle now, regardless of the eventual SCOTUS ruling...

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Response to villager (Reply #19)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:44 PM

24. Yes,get it in forward thinking and progressive states to show the cost effectiveness!

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:32 PM

21. K&R Never give up! n/t

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:34 PM

22. K&R!!

Never Give Up.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:57 PM

25. K&R

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 12:59 PM

26. duh n/t

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 01:01 PM

27. K&R nt

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 01:01 PM

28. K/R

Private health insurance has a history of being not legitimate business, but a racket.

Medicare for all!

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 01:18 PM

29. No

 

Co-ops are a better way.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 01:36 PM

30. If the 5 conservative justices

strike down the law itself, than the GOP will own it. The GOP will be portrayed and even more so "focused" that they are in general selfish and non-caring assholes and will put first their party before the welfare of the America public.

Highlighted:

- Gore vs. Bush

- No more Class Actions against businesses

- Citizen United

et al.,

Justice C. Thomas and Salia(sp?) should have recused themselves.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 02:47 PM

31. K&R!

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:01 PM

32. Abso-FUCKING-lutely!

I think the next battle is at the state level, though.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:03 PM

33. K&R

No reason to give up.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:03 PM

34. K&R. n/t

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 04:49 PM

35. KnR

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 06:18 PM

36. k&r

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:32 PM

37. K & R!!!

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:47 PM

38. K&R

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:58 PM

39. There is no alternative.

Single Payer or Die.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:02 AM

40. K&R

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:07 AM

41. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, libtodeath.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:18 AM

42. k and r

Though those that would cheer Aca dying are fools and tools.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:32 AM

43. Fuckin' A, Bubba!

We have little "side" in a battle between the quick fortune greedy fucks and the longview greedy fucks in the insurance cartel.
That is going on in this battle, it is all about squeeze us for every thing they can until the well goes dry or squeeze a little less, get damn near either 100% participation or free money for not even printing an ID card, along with a shitload of government cash to make up the difference between what they want to charge and what many can pay, slyly in exchange for taking our money.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:52 AM

44. Count me in

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:58 AM

45. K&R

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:00 AM

46. Without a doubt.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:13 AM

47. Of course.

Single-payer is the only logical solution. No one should be denied health care simply because they're poor or sick. But no one should be forced to enrich private insurance companies either. I can understand the opposition to the mandate from that standpoint. Health care should be a government-run program like schools or public safety. I wouldn't mind paying more taxes to ensure that everyone could get the care they need. And private health care could still be available for those who wanted to pay extra for it, over and above their tax obligation.

I guess I'm a socialist.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:15 AM

48. I think it is the best solution. n/t

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 01:43 AM

49. K&R. nt

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:29 AM

50. Thank you, imua!

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:11 AM

51. K&R

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:53 AM

52. There ya go!

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 04:05 AM

53. right on!

I'm not easily distracted or discouraged!

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 05:09 AM

55. K&R!

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:18 AM

56. Kickin it!

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:24 AM

57. does this need another kick?

If so, K & R from me.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:46 AM

58. K & R

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 09:36 AM

59. Yes...for Single payer

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 09:38 AM

60. K and R (nt)

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 09:45 AM

61. It's not that we are giving up. It's that we live in a corrupt corporate run country.

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Response to mmonk (Reply #61)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:56 AM

65. No argument on that but saw a bunch of we will never get anything now posts

That is true if we dont keep fighting.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:02 AM

62. KR

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:10 AM

63. One immediate step

that Democrats could take, assuming the USSC does its usual suck-up to the far right, would be to file legislation dropping the eligibility for Medicare to age 55. This was actually under consideration during the debate in 2009, and looked like it had a chance, until Senator Leiberman (I-Insurance industry) said he'd kill it, no matter what.

The reason for his opposing the measure is precisely the reason we should support it. He and others saw this as the "foot in the door" for single payer, in that once millions of people signed into Medicare (offering better care at lower cost than for-profit insurance) there would be an enormous new demographic in support of a single-payer type system. Lower the eligibility age to 55 (which also solves Medicare's alleged solvency issues) and there would be immediate pressure to lower the eligibility age to 50, 45, 40....

This measure would also have huge popular support, especially if it's tied in to the idea of making Medicare more solvent (by bringing younger, healthier people into the system, thus broadening its financial base).


And of course, K & R.

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Response to libtodeath (Original post)

Thu Mar 29, 2012, 10:20 AM

64. K&R

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