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[cthulu2016]

This message was self-deleted by its author (cthulu2016) on Wed Apr 16, 2014, 07:34 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[dipsydoodle]

1. Kiev's grip on eastern Ukraine weakens as pro-Russians seize army vehicles

For Kiev's beleaguered army it was meant to be a display of strength. Early on Wednesday a column of six armoured personnel carriers trundled through the town of Kramatorsk, in eastern Ukraine. Some 24 hours earlier Ukrainian soldiers had recaptured a small disused aerodrome. Their next target appeared to be Slavyansk, the neighbouring town, occupied by a shadowy Russian militia. Was victory close?

The column didn't get far. At Kramatorsk's railway junction, next to an open-air market and a shop selling building materials, an angry crowd caught up with it. Next armed separatists dressed in military fatigues turned up too. Within minutes the Ukrainian soldiers gave up. Without a shot being fired they abandoned their vehicles. The pro-Russian gunmen grabbed them. They raised a Russian tricolour. They sat on top and went for a victory spin.

In theory this was happening in Ukraine, under the control of a pro-western government in Kiev, and several hundred kilometres from the Russian border. In reality large chunks of the east of the country are now in open revolt. Ukraine is rapidly vanishing as a sovereign state. Its army is falling apart. What happens next is unclear. But the Kremlin can either annexe the east, as it did Crimea, again shrugging off western outrage. Or it can pull the strings of a new post-Kiev puppet entity.

The militia who captured the armoured vehicles on Wednesday looked like professionals. They had Kalashnikovs, flak jackets, ammunition. One even carried a tube-shaped green grenade-launcher. Some hid their faces under black balaclavas. Others waved and smiled. All wore an orange and black ribbon – originally a symbol of the Soviet victory over fascism, and now the colours of the east's snowballing anti-Kiev movement. There was a flag of Donbass, the Russian-speaking eastern region with its main city of Donetsk.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/16/kiev-eastern-ukraine-pro-russians-army-vehicles

[davidpdx]

2. This just doesn't surprise me a bit

I'm sure even though it's been proved false, we'll hear it repeated over and over again verbatim that Ukraine troops are defecting to Russia.

[SidDithers]

3. RT, and it's defenders, are a joke...nt

Sid

[arely staircase]

7. I wonder what Putin would have to do for them to actually think he is bad.

or can they justify anything as long as he is vomiting some anti-American drivel.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. making heads or tails of a chaotic siutation is never easy

and corroborating info at times is a real pain. Ten times as bad, (if not more) in a potential war zone.

So anything coming early on, take it with a slight grain of salt. (At times a full sack of the stuff)

[cthulu2016]

10. AP shouldn't have headlined the first story with "defection"

As "news" it was accurate. Man riding tanks said the following words: "XYZ."

True.

But AP is a wire service and, as such, is always in the position of interpreting information for their subscribers, and should never have stated that anyone defected without ascertaining that someone defected.

(And I won't be at all surprised if some folks have or will defect.)

I guess the possibility that the tanks had been taken away from Ukrainian soldiers didn't occur to them until they ran into one of the now-on-foot soldiers who had been robbed of his tank.

(And they really might have asked themselves where the fricking flags came from. It all reminds me so much of Iraq.)

[TwilightGardener]

5. Sow confusion and defeatism, kill morale...

I do believe that Ukrainian troops do not want to fire on civilians, though. That reluctance will be used against the military and the government.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

8. the soldiers likely also wants to potentally avoid jail

I think its against some of their laws for soldiers to shoot at civilians(least the kind of their own country).

It also likely doesn't help to much that the people ordering it lack some of the authority to do so(aka being a interim government that wasn't elected)

[arely staircase]

6. dumbasses nt

[joeybee12]

9. There's no such thing as journalism in this country, it's now all stenography

Whatever happened to getting a second source to confirm before you printed anything?

[dipsydoodle]

11. In a similar manner

when Jen Psaki was asked at a news conference "where does the State Dept get its information from concerning Ukraine ?" she replied "Kiev"

The next question was "where else do they get it from ? " She replied "nowhere else "

At least she was being honest.