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Man... I Did Not Realize Until Today... How Many George Zimmerman Defenders Are Here At DU (Original Post) WillyT Mar 2012 OP
amazing how many of them are new accounts Hugabear Mar 2012 #1
+1000 nt abelenkpe Mar 2012 #3
They did just sign up to race bait. FarPoint Mar 2012 #7
That tells me they are afraid. NOLALady Mar 2012 #11
That, or it could just simply be that there are total losers out there Quantess Mar 2012 #30
Not all of them are 'new' Cirque du So-What Mar 2012 #21
Yeah... Checked A Few Profiles... Not all of them are 'new' WillyT Mar 2012 #22
There it is WillyT. Plus consider when Admin allowed for username changes-nothing surprises me n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2012 #47
There is some crazy BS about, isn't there? Bolo Boffin Mar 2012 #58
Very true. Lilyeye Mar 2012 #38
a lot of noiretextatique Mar 2012 #28
Those are the ones I mostly see. Lilyeye Mar 2012 #46
It's a pretty scary number Ohio Joe Mar 2012 #2
Yea...were under attack. FarPoint Mar 2012 #4
... SpencerShay Mar 2012 #5
And Here's The Company They Are Keeping... WillyT Mar 2012 #12
Exactly. Hoyt Mar 2012 #18
Yep - no kid has the right to punch an adult stranger just because he was stalking him. blm Mar 2012 #6
And it never seems to occur to those yahoos liberalhistorian Mar 2012 #49
Yeah varelse Mar 2012 #8
Haven't seen any long-term posters... moriah Mar 2012 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Skittles Mar 2012 #10
I would not be surprised Skittles Mar 2012 #13
Yeah... Badass-Wannabes WillyT Mar 2012 #14
Nancy Grace is on this now Life Long Dem Mar 2012 #15
rec. KG Mar 2012 #16
Wait 'til the Obama justice dept. refuses to step in during an election year. n/t billyoc Mar 2012 #17
will come visit us because they are lonely? fascisthunter Mar 2012 #19
The majority of them being trolls notadmblnd Mar 2012 #20
You think only RWers are racist cop-apologists? Odin2005 Mar 2012 #23
Trolls for sure. However mention guns and people go nuts. Even if you think you would like to southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #24
Please list the laws you wish to rein in ... spin Mar 2012 #37
This stand your ground law would be a great start. How about real background checks before you southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #43
I noticed you said great start ... spin Mar 2012 #50
I don't want my child learning about guns in high school because the local area already provides southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #53
The reason I favor high school classes for firearm safety is ... spin Mar 2012 #57
Here is a law I think they could pass that might help the nuts who don't know how to handle southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #77
Scuba divers have to have a certification card ... spin Mar 2012 #78
Me neither. May the NRA will have. southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #80
The NRA opposes any restrictive laws as they belive in the camel theory of gun control ... spin Mar 2012 #81
We can certainly thank Newty Fruity for the state of not compromising. When he became southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #82
Well said. (n/t) spin Mar 2012 #85
I'm picturing a war room at the NRA with a lot of computers. TBF Mar 2012 #25
Because of this issue, I visited the gungeon, got threads hidden and an OP closed because Dragonfli Mar 2012 #26
Actually it was locked for Union Scribe Mar 2012 #31
It had everything to do with arguments about SYG. Those were the opinions hidden Dragonfli Mar 2012 #35
Stay on topic and you won't be locked. Union Scribe Mar 2012 #52
Whatever excuse works, I get it. Don't worry I have no intentions of disrupting the gun love fest Dragonfli Mar 2012 #73
RW troll newbies. kestrel91316 Mar 2012 #27
Many new are signing up to spout the same trash OKNancy Mar 2012 #29
k&r Starry Messenger Mar 2012 #32
I'm not defending Zimmerman but I would like to point out ... spin Mar 2012 #33
Normally I would say innocent until proven guilty. BUT when you have a case like THIS one where Justice wanted Mar 2012 #40
You have only read the reports from the media ... spin Mar 2012 #51
That's not how the system works and I hope you excuse yourself from any jury... joshcryer Mar 2012 #61
He'll probably plead guilty to a lesser charge, don't you think? Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #63
I think that is probably what will happen, yeah. joshcryer Mar 2012 #65
How the HELL can there be a just Trail when the cops Botched any AND ALL evidence?! Justice wanted Mar 2012 #64
He has to prove that he acted within the law, there's no evidence it was self defense... joshcryer Mar 2012 #66
There's enough evidence, looks like. Witnesses, videotapes, reports.... Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #69
But you have a lot of angry people who don't know all the facts, or the legal definitions of Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #62
You are absolutely correct. DiverDave Mar 2012 #74
GZ didn't confront Martin, did he? It was Martin who turned around & confronted GZ.... Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #59
Probably only Zimmerman and Martin will ever know what happened that night ... spin Mar 2012 #70
Poster child for gun control DiverDave Mar 2012 #76
I have a carry permit and know a good number of people who also have one ... spin Mar 2012 #79
I don't have a carry permit, but I don't blame this incident on that. Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #86
In my opinion he was a cop wannabe ... spin Mar 2012 #88
And... You're Not The Guy The Rest Of Us Worry About... George Zimmerman... Just May Be... WillyT Mar 2012 #87
As you know, the gun laws in the several states are different. Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Mar 2012 #36
You need to understand something. randome Mar 2012 #39
Ditto. There are always various opinions on the issues. Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #67
Probably 85% of them are socks Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #41
I'm a white female Aerows Mar 2012 #42
They're keeping the MIRT busy, they are. nt MineralMan Mar 2012 #44
I am sorta surprised too. Rex Mar 2012 #45
Yeah, me too. The cognitive dissonance on this issue is quite interesting, to say the least. PotatoChip Mar 2012 #55
I can respect opinions from people like 'spin' who have a strong sense of justice. joshcryer Mar 2012 #68
I felt it was people feeling 'worried about their guns' too. Rex Mar 2012 #72
republicans are very adept at infiltrating everywhere.... spanone Mar 2012 #48
Al Sharpton is ripping Zimmerman's story apart with a witness. Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #54
I noticed. Funny, init? CTyankee Mar 2012 #56
Reminds me of all the DSK defenders, to be honest. joshcryer Mar 2012 #60
DSK is more like the Assange case in Sweden RZM Mar 2012 #71
Cross the defenders/apologists/concerners with the gungeon. You will find morningfog Mar 2012 #75
Notice how they all disappeared now that video footage Rex Mar 2012 #83
Mr. Zimmerman is entitled to a fair trial with a presumption of innocence The Second Stone Mar 2012 #84

Hugabear

(10,340 posts)
1. amazing how many of them are new accounts
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:04 PM
Mar 2012

It's almost as if they just signed up to defend that racist POS

NOLALady

(4,003 posts)
11. That tells me they are afraid.
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:12 PM
Mar 2012

Very afraid that maybe this incident could push some away from the Republican agenda. They are afraid that decent people may open their eyes and see how they have been manipulated with fear mongering. They are afraid that the majority of decent Americans will come together and say in one voice, ENOUGH!

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
30. That, or it could just simply be that there are total losers out there
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 05:48 AM
Mar 2012

who love to waste their time trolling on internet boards. Maybe a little of both?

Cirque du So-What

(25,811 posts)
21. Not all of them are 'new'
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:36 PM
Mar 2012

and that - to me, anyway - is just as infuriating as the trolls who sign up for what is tantamount to a 'suicide mission.'

 

bobthedrummer

(26,083 posts)
47. There it is WillyT. Plus consider when Admin allowed for username changes-nothing surprises me n/t
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 05:10 PM
Mar 2012

Bolo Boffin

(23,796 posts)
58. There is some crazy BS about, isn't there?
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:28 PM
Mar 2012

From everything I had heard, even with things meant to put Zimmerman's side forward, I knew how it all sounded and where I was - squarely on Trayvon's side. But the instant I found out Zimmerman was recorded by the police saying "fucking coons," it was over as far as I was concerned. Any incident that starts with a racial slur and ends with a dead black man? Come the hell on, somebody got to get real up in here.

Lilyeye

(1,417 posts)
38. Very true.
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:18 PM
Mar 2012

I just saw a post by one poster who has been around for a bit and totally defended Zimmerman killing Trayvon.

Here's the post. It was hidden so I can't post the exact link. Its post 37.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101482918#post37

I am posting this since a few days ago people were jumping on my case for not showing "proof" of Zimmerman defenders.

FarPoint

(12,207 posts)
4. Yea...were under attack.
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:07 PM
Mar 2012

We need to alert...a lot...screw letting them fly under the radar...Trayvon deserves better.

blm

(112,919 posts)
6. Yep - no kid has the right to punch an adult stranger just because he was stalking him.
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:08 PM
Mar 2012

I was told.

liberalhistorian

(20,809 posts)
49. And it never seems to occur to those yahoos
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 05:28 PM
Mar 2012

that the KID ('cause that's what he was) may have felt very threatened himself, walking alone, at night, being stalked and followed by a larger, older stranger. Why isn't he allowed to feel threatened as well? Because he didn't have a gun? Are only people with guns allowed to feel threatened? 'Cause that's the vibe I get from these guns uber alles yahoos.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
9. Haven't seen any long-term posters...
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:12 PM
Mar 2012

.... defending him. I've seen plenty defending the laws -- I personally support Castle Doctrine and the idea behind SYG but apparently the implementation of it sucks majorly if Zimmerman can hide behind it.

But Zimmerman was the aggressor, he has no right to claim self-defense.

Response to WillyT (Original post)

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
24. Trolls for sure. However mention guns and people go nuts. Even if you think you would like to
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:42 PM
Mar 2012

rein some of the gun laws. They just go nuts.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
43. This stand your ground law would be a great start. How about real background checks before you
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:37 PM
Mar 2012

can buy a gun.

spin

(17,493 posts)
50. I noticed you said great start ...
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 05:32 PM
Mar 2012

when you mentioned the Stand Your Ground law. That leads me to suspect that if it was repealed you would then have a new goal, possibly repealing concealed carry. If that was repealed you would love to see registration of all firearms and the licensing of all firearm owners. If that worked you would probably want to see the banning and confiscation of all semi-auto firearms.

Of course, I could be wrong.

On the subject of a real background check, I had one when I got my concealed weapons permit.

I have absolutely no problem with better financing for the NICS system in order to help the states input records on a more timely basis and I would like to see the names of those adjudged as having severe mental problems added to the list. I would also see the NICS system required for the private sale of firearms. I feel the NICS system, if improved, is adequate for those who wish to own a firearm but not to carry it concealed.

I would also like to see firearms safety training required in all high schools. With over 300,000,000 firearms owned by 80,000,000 people in our nation such a course makes sense. So does a mandatory first aid course.

I definitely would like to see the current laws better enforced. I would like to see the penalty increased for anyone involved in the straw purchase or smuggling of firearms. I personally feel that such individuals should be considered as an accessory to any crime caused by the firearms they illegally purchased or sold.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
53. I don't want my child learning about guns in high school because the local area already provides
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 06:13 PM
Mar 2012

classes for safety if you are interesting in learning to shoot. In fact in my son's health class they sent home a permission slip for us to sign to allow him to shoot a rifle. Needless to say we were very upset and my husband went to the school and asked why were they teaching this in a health class and why didn't they have a opt out for this. I guess there must have been other parents who felt the same way because a couple of years later they stopped doing it. As you guess I hate guns. I grewup in a military family and my husband also retired. But I think there are way to many crazy people walking around with guns, period.

I will say this much I have no problem if you are a hunter and want to hunt for your food and store at your home. I have no problems at all.

It is your right to keep them. But I know damn well with the NRA scaring people that Obama wants to take away your gun rights people are going out and buying tons of guns. It is dangerous. It's that simple.

It is your right to have. It is my right not to. If I could change some of the laws I would. You have made many good suggestions I could agree with. It might help but then again I don't know.


spin

(17,493 posts)
57. The reason I favor high school classes for firearm safety is ...
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:12 PM
Mar 2012

there is an excellent chance that a child who had never been exposed to a weapon will find himself in a situation where he finds a loaded gun or is watching someone handle one.

I remember a teenage girl who was talking to me about her boyfriend and some other guys handling a firearm in her presence. It was chilling as her boyfriend was a total idiot. I explained the basics of firearm safety to her and told her she would be very wise to leave the area if she ever again found herself around fools playing with guns.

Even parents who do their best to never expose their children to firearms have to realize that there is an excellent chance that their children will be around a firearm or others with firearms during their life. A young trained person might ask his friend who is handling a semi-auto pistol if he had checked to see if the firearm was unloaded. If the guy holds up the magazine from the weapon and says, "It's unloaded, I pulled out the clip", the trained individual might ask if he had racked the slide to make sure there wasn't a round in the chamber.

It is true that fear of Obama and his possible future gun control plans has caused firearm sales to skyrocket and often people with little or no training have decided to buy a firearm. Once again, if they had taken a high school class on firearm safety, they might be more knowledgeable. Some tragic accidents would be avoided.

I totally agree that we both have a right to chose to own or not own firearms. Often if a person asks me about buying his first gun, I talk about all the responsibilities and the danger of owning firearms. I tell them to first take a gun safety course. I actually have talked several people out of buying firearms.

The other suggestions that I made might work but with the opposition from the right, I doubt if they could ever be passed into law.

 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
77. Here is a law I think they could pass that might help the nuts who don't know how to handle
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 09:41 AM
Mar 2012

guns. How about them going to a gun safety class before they are sold a gun and they have to produce a certificate that they pass the class. That might help people to stop and think.

I also had a young brother-in-law that died hunting. His daughters bought him a shotgun for christmas. He and a friend went hunting after christmas in the mountains and when they were getting ready to go home he was putting his rifle back into the truck cab and somehow the rifle got caught of the blanket and it had a hair trigger and it went off and killed him instantly. Needless to say his friend freaked out and it was a mess. He was an avid hunting and he knew gun safety but just once his mind wasn't on what he was doing I guess. So accidents happens to the best of people.

spin

(17,493 posts)
78. Scuba divers have to have a certification card ...
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:38 AM
Mar 2012

and sky divers have to have a license. Many states require a hunter's safety course before you can get a hunting license.

I have no problem with a requirement that a person who purchases a firearm has to have a certificate that they passed a firearms safety class.

spin

(17,493 posts)
81. The NRA opposes any restrictive laws as they belive in the camel theory of gun control ...
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 02:09 PM
Mar 2012

There is an old Arabian proverb which states:

If the camel once gets his nose in the tent, his body will soon follow.


It is true that those who want to eventually ban and confiscate all firearms realize that they will have far more success in achieving their goal if they use an incremental approach. Realizing this, the NRA has decided to oppose any and all new gun control efforts.

However there are a large number of people in our nation who do not want to see all firearms banned and confiscated but wish for the implementation of truly reasonable laws, improvements in existing laws and better enforcement of those laws. They really have no problem with those who own firearms as long as they are honest, responsible, sane and trained in firearm safety.

If the NRA and the groups who oppose gun ownership were able to sit down and work on compromises, we might see a reduction in tragedies caused by firearms.

Unfortunately we seem to live in a era where nobody has any interest in finding a middle ground and compromising on any issue. The people we elect are largely divided into two parties who feel their job is similar to members of two different football teams such as the Steelers and the Browns. The object is win the game for your side and to not allow the other team to score any points.

With this prevalent attitude we never make any headway on any important issues we face.

We may differ in our views but if we can ever learn to work together as we once were able to, we might once more make the U.S.A a nation that leads the world and is a good example of Representative Democracy.
 

southernyankeebelle

(11,304 posts)
82. We can certainly thank Newty Fruity for the state of not compromising. When he became
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 05:52 PM
Mar 2012

Speaker of the House he said there will be no more compromising and ever since we have been in a combat zone in congress. The country is losing the art of compromise. Republicans are not willing to put that hand out there.

TBF

(31,919 posts)
25. I'm picturing a war room at the NRA with a lot of computers.
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 08:50 PM
Mar 2012

They will fight tooth and nail for those gun laws.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
26. Because of this issue, I visited the gungeon, got threads hidden and an OP closed because
Tue Mar 27, 2012, 09:04 PM
Mar 2012

I did not support or apologize for ALEC.

It was a real eye opener for me, I thought we only had financial conservatives here posing as blue dogs, I have learned since that many are also socially conservative, I had to ask myself, are these people really republican? I mean, they share all the same views, is a D really all it takes for a Republican to be called Democrat?

Union Scribe

(7,099 posts)
31. Actually it was locked for
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 06:24 AM
Mar 2012

whining about hosts and juries in a forum besides H/M. It had nothing to do with any argument about guns or SYG.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
35. It had everything to do with arguments about SYG. Those were the opinions hidden
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 02:44 PM
Mar 2012

The post itself was trying to answer the questions asked after I could not reply in the original GUN thread.

The offensive thing that had everyone a twitter was I tried to explain ALEC authored nearly identical SYG type laws across the country.

3 posters basically said that were untrue and I should post proof. I did, it got locked, the excuse why hardly matters, all the redacted stuff was about ALEC, they have a nice size fan club over there and I got the hint not to return.

I will not return there, you win, too much like an NRA site over there and I don't like being redacted for telling the truth.

Union Scribe

(7,099 posts)
52. Stay on topic and you won't be locked.
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 06:02 PM
Mar 2012

There are lots of posters in that forum who argue for stricter gun laws. They don't get locked, because they don't spend their entire OP complaining about Meta topics.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
73. Whatever excuse works, I get it. Don't worry I have no intentions of disrupting the gun love fest
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 03:54 AM
Mar 2012

over there. Whatever gets them off, it's cool. When the getting off includes killing a young unarmed man I may interject, but not in the ALEC forum, that is a safe haven for gun strokers and comers.

I will do it in future in GD where it is not stacked against me before I post a word.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
29. Many new are signing up to spout the same trash
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 05:40 AM
Mar 2012

It's like a script or something.
PLEASE don't tweet DU links to any of the Zimmerman/Martin threads. I believe the trolls are finding these threads via twitter, not google.

spin

(17,493 posts)
33. I'm not defending Zimmerman but I would like to point out ...
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 02:34 PM
Mar 2012

that under our system of law we don't send people to jail merely because the news media feels they are guilty.

I fault Zimmerman because he failed to follow the instructors of the dispatcher and confronted Martin. That was a poor decision and a tragedy occurred because of it.

At this time with the information that I have gleaned from the news, I would like to see Zimmerman arrested and end up facing a jury who will determine his guilt or innocence.

Justice wanted

(2,657 posts)
40. Normally I would say innocent until proven guilty. BUT when you have a case like THIS one where
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:23 PM
Mar 2012

justice was botch from the first second and truth is being covered up and a smear campaign is being perform on a child WELL WE CAN'T EXPECT JUSTICE! As the facts keep coming to light all facts point to Zimmerman being guilty as hell AND should not be defended in any freakin way.

spin

(17,493 posts)
51. You have only read the reports from the media ...
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 05:48 PM
Mar 2012

and basically I agree with your comments based on the information that I have gleaned from the news.

However through the years I have learned that it's wise to wait to see both sides of a story. For example the JonBenét Ramsey case. I was positive that the mother killed the child. I was wrong. (I hate it when I'm wrong.)

JonBenét Ramsey

JonBenét Patricia Ramsey (English pronunciation: /ˌdʒɒnbəˈneɪ pəˈtrɪʃə ˈræmzi/; August 6, 1990 – December 25, 1996) was an American child beauty pageant contestant who was murdered in her home in Boulder, Colorado, in 1996. The six-year-old's body was found in the basement of the family home nearly eight hours after she was reported missing. She had been struck on the head and strangled. The case, which after several grand jury hearings remains unsolved, continues to generate public and media interest.

Colorado law enforcement agencies initially suspected JonBenét's parents and her brother. However, the family was partially exonerated in 2003 when DNA taken from the victim's clothes suggested they were not involved.[1][2] Her parents would not be completely cleared until July 2008.[3] In February 2009, the Boulder Police Department took the case back from the district attorney to reopen the investigation.[4]emphasis added

Media coverage of the case has often focused on JonBenét's participation in child beauty pageants, her parents' affluence and the unusual evidence in the case. Reports have also questioned the police's overall handling of the case. Several defamation suits have been filed against several media organizations by Ramsey family members and their friends over reporting of the murder.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JonBen%C3%A9t_Ramsey


In my opinion, unless more information comes out, I can see no reason for Zimmerman to not have followed the dispatcher's instructions. By leaving his vehicle and confronting Martin, I feel he escalated the situation. I feel, and some experts agree, that the Stand Your Ground law does not apply in this case.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
61. That's not how the system works and I hope you excuse yourself from any jury...
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:38 PM
Mar 2012

...in which you think that is the case. While I do think he is toast and should be jailed and summarily tried, I do think he deserves a defense, though what he did is truly indefensible.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
63. He'll probably plead guilty to a lesser charge, don't you think?
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:44 PM
Mar 2012

He won't want to go through a trial, and the prosecutor will have a circus on his hands if it does go to trial.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
65. I think that is probably what will happen, yeah.
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:47 PM
Mar 2012

There's no evidence whatsoever that his original claims of self defense have any standing, so any competent lawyer will tell him to plead.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
66. He has to prove that he acted within the law, there's no evidence it was self defense...
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:48 PM
Mar 2012

...and all the evidence points to him committing murder.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
69. There's enough evidence, looks like. Witnesses, videotapes, reports....
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:54 PM
Mar 2012

911 calls (which can be made clearer by the FBI), medical records (or the lack of them), etc.

Apparently there's enough evidence for many people to have found him guilty without a trial or seeing all the evidence that exists so far, right?

I suspect some police officers' careers will suffer, as well.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
62. But you have a lot of angry people who don't know all the facts, or the legal definitions of
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:42 PM
Mar 2012

murder, who seem to want GZ dead. That is dangerous and a mob mentality and something I'm sure people in a calm state of mind don't want to see happen.

The police either decided they would let GZ go free and/or not investigate, but it's being investigated now by both the FBI and the DOJ. Yet you have people trying to find GZ and post his whereabouts so crazy angry people will know where he is...to the point that false addresses are being given out, and an elderly couple has had to flee their home for fear of their lives (their name is unfortunately Zimmerman).

There is no evidence whatsoever that GZ is guilty of first degree murder, yet many people seem to be saying he's guilty of just that. There are various degrees of murder, as well as negligent homicide, manslaughter, etc.

We are not judge and jury. Everyone with half a brain knows that something went very wrong with the police here, and that the situation and the death were caused by GZ. But we the public don't decide guilt or innocence; a jury does that. And you would very strongly support that, if you were in a situation where you looked very guilty. THINKING someone is guilty is very different from guilt being proven beyond a reasonable doubt in a court, before a jury of 12 people.

He'll probably plead guilty to a lesser charge, dontcha think?

DiverDave

(4,874 posts)
74. You are absolutely correct.
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:25 AM
Mar 2012

presumed innocent folks, that has saved LOTS of people that were.
Angry, bloodthirsty crowds have snuffed out more innocents then I care to count.
Do I think he killed that young man? YES and he should spend the rest of his life in
prison for it.
If there was a cover-up then the people that did it should be charged as
accessories after the fact.

Everybody needs to CHILL OUT!, yes the spin is aggravating, the cover-up
and smear campaign makes me see red too.
But running people out of their homes because they have the same LAST name?
SHAME on the people that did that.

Mob mentality sure aint pretty, is it?

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
59. GZ didn't confront Martin, did he? It was Martin who turned around & confronted GZ....
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:34 PM
Mar 2012

according to the 911 call by GZ to the police; he was on hte police call, when he said that the kid was approaching him with something in his hand. Martin's girlfriend says she heard him say, "Why are you following me?" then the call drops.

GZ was following Martin, and Martin noticed.

I'm wondering if GZ thought Trayvon had a gun in his hand (it was a canned drink or the cell phone), and attacked or shot Trayvon at that point.

spin

(17,493 posts)
70. Probably only Zimmerman and Martin will ever know what happened that night ...
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:03 PM
Mar 2012

and unfortunately Martin is dead.

If I was in Martin's shoes, I would have been very worried about the strange individual who was following me.

If Zimmerman approached him and flashed or drew his weapon, Martin would have every right to attempt to defend himself. He would have good reason to fear that Zimmerman planned to seriously injure or kill him. It is conceivable that Martin attempted to disarm Zimmerman and failed.

DiverDave

(4,874 posts)
76. Poster child for gun control
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:31 AM
Mar 2012

if he didnt have a gun, he'd be cowering in his home.

But a gun in his hand?
He's a big tough guy, and he proved it.
By shooting a kid, yeah, some MAN.

The NRA works for the gun manufacturers they dont care who
has a gun, just as long as they get paid.

And scared people are great customers.

spin

(17,493 posts)
79. I have a carry permit and know a good number of people who also have one ...
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 11:41 AM
Mar 2012

We don't run around confronting suspicious people, but we are not cop wannabes or vigilantes.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
86. I don't have a carry permit, but I don't blame this incident on that.
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:29 PM
Mar 2012

There was something wrong with GZ. I mean, seriously...he spent a lot of time walking around and driving around with a gun, looking for suspicious characters. We all want a safe neighborhood, but when you don't have to do that, and you choose to do that instead of, say, settling in after work to relax in front of the TV, or exercising, or playing with your dogs, or doing any number of things...that's just weird. Esp when he wasn't a captain of a neighborhood crime watch (or so the crime watch group says...I'm not so sure who I believe about that).

spin

(17,493 posts)
88. In my opinion he was a cop wannabe ...
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 09:02 PM
Mar 2012

You often find such people working as a security guard.

I should point out that I have known many excellent security guards but even they would admit that some guards love to play cop.

Before I retired I worked at a facility that had a guard force. Their main job was to walk through the factory and check do a regular fire check to lower the cost of insurance. If they encountered intruders, they would call the police.

Once while working the graveyard shift, I was alone in a very large room and I heard the guard enter and walk down the hallway whistling with a large key chain clanking away on his belt. I stopped him and said, "You know if I was an intruder, I would have heard you coming a mile away."

He just smiled and said, "That's the idea."

 

WillyT

(72,631 posts)
87. And... You're Not The Guy The Rest Of Us Worry About... George Zimmerman... Just May Be...
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 08:52 PM
Mar 2012

And... As I've said many many times... "Short-Man's Complex" has very little to do with height.

Present company excluded of course...


Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
34. As you know, the gun laws in the several states are different.
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 02:44 PM
Mar 2012

But, go ahead and ask one of them what state they live in, and they will clam up tighter than a 6 month old clam.
Doesn't make much sense, but then they never did.

Response to WillyT (Original post)

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
39. You need to understand something.
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:21 PM
Mar 2012

I have not weighed in much on Trayvon's death because there is no doubt to me his death was needless and can even be termed 'murder'.

But the range of DU'ers who come here is immense.

There are those who truly DO think that Zimmerman does not deserve all the blame.

There are those who want to react against the backlash re: gun laws.

There are those who want to support the police.

There are those who, for personal reasons, need to demonstrate their objectivity by taking the position opposite to the majority.

It takes all kinds to make up a forum as diverse as DU.

I've been here since 2001 and my suggestion is to take each comment for what it's worth and not disparage people who disagree with you.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
67. Ditto. There are always various opinions on the issues.
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:50 PM
Mar 2012

Disparaging those who have a different viewpoint isn't useful or respectful. I, for one, have not seen one post "defending" Zimmerman's actions. I HAVE seen posts urging for calm reflection, waiting for all the facts, not hunting him down and killing him, all the while stating and restating that the poster agreed that GZ killed the boy illegally and should be investigated and charged.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
41. Probably 85% of them are socks
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:24 PM
Mar 2012

Some moron or group of morons opened a ton of new DU accounts...One gets banned, they just move on to the next name

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
42. I'm a white female
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:24 PM
Mar 2012

and I think Trayvon Martin's death was a murder.

Please don't categorize everyone. Many of us have a brain and are disgusted with this lack of justice. I know I am disgusted.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
45. I am sorta surprised too.
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 03:42 PM
Mar 2012

I thought everyone knew he murdered a child with a gun and in cold blood. What else is there to say really? The guy is a murderer.

PotatoChip

(3,186 posts)
55. Yeah, me too. The cognitive dissonance on this issue is quite interesting, to say the least.
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 07:07 PM
Mar 2012

Some of the 'defenses' for Zimmerman border on ludicrous imo.

Though newbies seem to make up the largest group of Zimmerman defenders, I've seen a few long timers chiming in as well. My only theory is that maybe these are long time gungeon types? I've never posted in that forum, but have checked it out from time to time. Some pretty uhm, interesting viewpoints down in there... I'll just leave it at that.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
68. I can respect opinions from people like 'spin' who have a strong sense of justice.
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:52 PM
Mar 2012

Went to jury duty recently and the judge asked, "Are you here with any preconceptions as to the verdict you must have in the back of your mind? If so, please raise your hand."

One person raised their hand.

The judge then said, "That's about right, only one or two raise their hand. That is the correct answer. You must come here with the preconceptions that the man sitting over there is innocent."

Trick question, but still good.

Me, I'm not to worked up about that though because 1) people get the wrong idea if I make that argument and 2) I'm not on the jury, not in the jurisdiction, none of that. I'm just a guy on an internet forum. So I'm happy with vilifying Zimmerman, someone who appears to be a murderous bigoted bastard.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
72. I felt it was people feeling 'worried about their guns' too.
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 12:45 AM
Mar 2012

I won't be on a jury for the gungeon.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)
54. Al Sharpton is ripping Zimmerman's story apart with a witness.
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 06:28 PM
Mar 2012

This is about as ugly as it gets.
Witnesses were not talked to until 5 days after the murder.
And the police were leading the witnesses with questions.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
60. Reminds me of all the DSK defenders, to be honest.
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 10:37 PM
Mar 2012

Although I don't see a real cross section of users then and now. Some have since been TS'd.

 

RZM

(8,556 posts)
71. DSK is more like the Assange case in Sweden
Wed Mar 28, 2012, 11:06 PM
Mar 2012

And not really because they were both accused of sexual crimes. Both men are famous and their defenders were more coming to the aid of their public personas (Socialist politician and Wikileaker). I think their defenders were less defending the men and more trying to show that they were 100 percent in favor of socialism or Wikileaks and 100 percent against the enemies of both. Plus the defenders in those cases immediately claimed vast conspiracies, again based solely on who the men were. None of them were defending the act, because nobody here supports sexual assault. They believed the charges were completely fabricated.

Defenders of Zimmerman and kind of the reverse of that. None of them care at all about the man because he's a nobody. And the act isn't in dispute - nobody is claiming that Zimmerman didn't shoot Trayvon. The defenders here are supporting using deadly force to protect oneself, since just about all Zimmerman defenders believe that Trayvon was beating him when the shots were fired.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
75. Cross the defenders/apologists/concerners with the gungeon. You will find
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 07:29 AM
Mar 2012

most are either new racist trolls, or long time gun-obsessed. Many of the gun-obsessed will knee-jerk a position to be on the side of a weapon over a body.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
83. Notice how they all disappeared now that video footage
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 05:55 PM
Mar 2012

shows Zimmerman clean and pressed walking through the police station. Even gets to lean up against a wall for a minute...what a bunch of guys! The cops are so nice to him, I mean I would be a little worried about a man that just killed someone. I am not a cop, so their actions seem strange to me in the video.

 

The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
84. Mr. Zimmerman is entitled to a fair trial with a presumption of innocence
Thu Mar 29, 2012, 05:59 PM
Mar 2012

the unfortunate nature of the case is that it was badly investigated and is being weakly prosecuted.

Mr. Zimmerman's rights are very important, but so are the public's rights to a trial. No charges and no trial is a gross miscarriage of justice in my opinion.

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