I think the Northwestern Football team Unionizing tactic is incorrect.

[rufus dog]

A much better approach to getting compensation would be having all Red State minority athletes refuse to play for Red State colleges.

Basically boycott the entire Southeast Conference, Oklahoma, Texas, Nebraska, Florida, Florida State, etc. Recruits could then take their talents to West Coast, Michigan, Illinois, Ohio, New York, MA schools. In three or four years of serious beat downs the sports crazed SEC, Texas, OK, schools will be offering 50 percent of the revenue to get the players back.

[BlueStreak]

1. I don't know how one would pull that off. I also question the strategy.

They are positioning this as "We aren't talking about money. We just think the colleges should be accountable for the medical problems they cause us."

Hell with that. The NCAA schools make billions of dollars of these athletes. Why should universities be making ANY money on their athletics? They7 are supposed to be education institutions. If they want to run semi-pro leagues, then they should not be allowed under the universities' not-for-profit status. Make them spin them off as for-profit enterprises and pay their employees. If part of the pay package is a scholarship, that's OK.

[joeglow3]

2. You realize very few colleges make money on athletics, right?

These football athletes fund all other athletics, the bulk of which are women's sports mandated under Title IX. After that, less than a couple dozen colleges finish in the black.

[BlueStreak]

7. Screw all the athletic programs. That isn't what a university is.

A university should be about education. It should not be a taxpayer-suppoerted, tax-free sports corporation.

[joeglow3]

11. Why the hatred for football?

Lets be honest, that is the ONLY sport that you are talking about.

[BlueStreak]

17. Actually basketball is the more current topic

I don't hate those sports at all. For 80 years or more the idea of games by student athletes was a jolly good part of the college experience. It enabled mass gatherings and created something of a school identity and spirit.

But with billion dollar contracts. iti s a perversion. It is obscene. And it has caused the big sports corporations that also have a university to abandon all pretense of an educational mission. They don't give a shit about the "human resources". It is free labor that enables multi-billion dollar contracts. This is about the only system in America that beats the new business model of Goodwill Industries, which is a bullshit fake charity abusing the tax code to book huge profits while taking advantage of millions of decent people who mistakenly believe that monstrosity is some kind of charity.

[joeglow3]

19. So, which is it

For the profitable athletic departments that are making money for the universities - we need to chastize them for abusing the poor athletes getting free health care and education.

For the unprofitable athletic departments that cost money (the VAST majority, contrary to your opinion based on your post) - they are obscene and a waster.

Basically, they are damned no matter where they are on the spectrum.

[BlueStreak]

25. They should be educutaing, not playing games

Who needs an "athletic department" anyway. That's like saying they need a department of hair styling or a department of movie reviews, or a department of dating and match-making. This should not be the mission of any university. If people want to play games while they are in college, let them organize AND PAY FOR THEM themselves.

But because that isn't going to happen, we should recognize that these are private businesses that have nothing to do with education. If they are going to make money off of athletes, then the athletes certainly should have the right to organize and bargain for a share of that money.

If the women's softball team or men's tiddly-winks team doesn't generate a profit, then those students won't have much bargaining power.

[11 Bravo]

30. My oldest son is a college athlete and a Dean's List student. He can even spell "educating".

[BlueStreak]

40. And what is your point?

Can your son construct a cohesive argument?

[Vashta Nerada]

3. Maybe the players should utilize their time in college to, I don't know, learn something.

College is about getting an education, not using it as a stepping stone to get into a professional sports organisation.

[rufus dog]

4. Really

What do you think the programs are selling to the kids? That they can provide the best chance for the player to get to the next level.

The colleges are using them. The players need to collectively figure out how to use the institutions.

[Vashta Nerada]

5. I think the players know damn well how to use the institutions.

They use it as a free ride and a stepping stone, stealing spots away from people who actually want to learn.

[BlueStreak]

9. Oh, the poor innocent universities. I wonder if they know they have been duped.

[FSogol]

10. And if they get too many concussions or blow out a knee, they should just be discarded, right?

Incredible to find such anti-Union sentiments on a "Democratic" website.

[Vashta Nerada]

12. I'm not "anti-union".

I'm anti-sports-in-college.

There's a huge difference.

Do you know who I actually care about when it comes to unions in college? Adjunct faculty. You want to know slave labor? Talk to one of them. Football players only have to deal with it for up to four years. Adjunct faculty deal with slave labor for decades.

Those poor football players.

[joeglow3]

14. You need to calm down and step back

I understand you are one of those people who hate sports/football and look down on everyone else dumb enough to find enjoyment in it.

However, these football teams make enough money to send hundreds of other student-athletes (mostly females under Title IX) to school. These numbers are made up, in large part, with lower income students who otherwise could not afford college. These student-athetes have graduation rates 10-15 points higher than the overall student population. This also provides tens of thousands of jobs around the US (jobs are a good thing), while providing an activity that MANY students on campus enjoy and provides an opportunity to come together.

[Vashta Nerada]

15. No I will not calm down.

My tuition skyrocketed in the last two years because the college decided to make a new sports arena for a shitty football team. I don't go to the games and I don't give a damn about the conditions in which the team plays in. My department can't even get enough money to get new lab equipment or even a decent lab.

But hey, I'm glad they cut five or six programs due to budget cuts. My college doesn't even have a geology department anymore. How sad is that?

[joeglow3]

16. What college are you talking about?

And, I cannot comment on geology. I can say we don't need 500 geology programs in the country, so I would need to know how close the nearest program is before I decide my level out outrage.

[Vashta Nerada]

20. Who are you to decide whether or not we need a college program?

If there are no geologists, who's going to keep watch on Yellowstone? Earthquakes? Volcanoes? Glaciers? Groundwater?

Good gods.



But hey, college sports must be a necessity.

[joeglow3]

21. Go to extremes much?

1. I NEVER said we need no geologists in the US. What I said is that colleges need to be smart with their resources. In Nebraska, we have three universities (University of Nebraska at Omaha, Lincoln & Kearney). There is no reason for there to be a geology degree offered at all three campuses (I believe it is offered at 2 of the 3 campuses here). While we CLEARLY need geologists, the field is not large enough to justify such a large expenditure.

2. You never answered the question I asked. What college were you referring to?

3. If you are TRULY interested in what is costing colleges so much money, look at needless technology upgrades and money wasted on needless student amenitites. There are a couple dozen universities that have athletic departments that MAKE money and the rest lose (with many being near break even). For this minimal investment, they are able to provide a free education to tens of thousands of students nation wide (many of which come from lower income families that could never afford college as an option). They achieve graduation rates 10-20 points HIGHER than the general student population. And they provide a form of unity and entertainment for very large groups of the student population.

[blueamy66]

24. What college?

Cause I thought stadiums were paid for via the sale of bonds, corporate naming rights, from the athletic department(s) themselves and fundraising.

[FSogol]

18. +1 The notion that every college athlete goes on to become a millionaire pro athlete

is pretty detached from reality.

[BlueStreak]

8. It there weren't billions of dollars at stake, universities would actually have student athletes

As a taxpayer-supported, tax-free sports corporation, complete with all the gross excesses of private enterprise including exorbitant coaches' salaries, they have absolutely no interest in employing (er I mean offering scholarships to) students interested in an education.

Don't lay this on the players. They are just trying to get to a paying professional sports job and the university cartel has set themselves up to effectively require slave labor as part of that deal.

[joeglow3]

23. How many people have you known who were student athletes?

I knew 15-20 and not a single one was "trying to get to a paying professional sports job." They all knew they were getting a free education for playing a sport they loved. All of them took advantage of the opportunity they were given, got degrees and are productive members of society. ONE of them got an oppotunity to be league minimum player in the NFL, got in the minimum for the pension and is now a school teacher.

[BlueStreak]

26. What's the point?

My point is that if the universities are running what amounts to a for-profit sports league, then the athletes surely should have the right to bargain collectively, including negotiations about pay.

[joeglow3]

36. Define "for profit"

[BlueStreak]

39. Billion dollar teevee contracts that fund exorbitant salaries

to everybody involved in the sports programs except for the players themselves.

http://www.fastcodesign.com/1672861/infographic-whos-your-states-highest-paid-public-employee

[joeglow3]

41. So, losing money is "for profit"

Good to know.

[BlueStreak]

42. It is obscene that taxpayers would pay for univesities that pay coaches

10 times as much as the Governor gets.

[joeglow3]

43. So, because the coaches get paid too much in your book

Athletes should paid? That is fine, but also recognize that the entire value of their scholarship begins taxable under the IRC, meaning any cash they would get would most likely go straight to Uncle Sam.

[Boom Sound 416]

34. What's the difference?

[politicman]

6. watch the daily show and you will get it

Did any of your watch the Daily Show today?

Stewart lays it all out very well, shows the way that these Colleges are exploiting athletes while making a shit load of money themselves

[Logical]

27. And companies make a shit load of money off their workers. Free college is PAY!! nt

[politicman]

28. like i said, watch the daily show and then come back and comment

Really?

If you had of watched the Daily Show segment like I advised then you would have seen a clip where the star basketball players in the whole country was answering a question and responded that he would go to sleep starving many nights because he had no money to buy food.

You would have seen how Stewart showed that coaches are getting a average of 2 million dollars a year while their athletes who put the bums on seats get nothing and even go hungry most night.
You would have seen how the tournament has a policy where athletes are not allowed to accept but the tiniest portion of food from anyone (even including restaurants) because the food has some monetary value.
You would have seen how athletes spend 40-60 hours a week on activities related to the sport they do, how on earth can they make the most of their free education when they spend that much time on their sport.


Watch the segment and then come back and tell me whether you still stick to your position that athletes should be grateful with getting the free college.

[Logical]

29. CEOs make millions also......

Players "work" 50 hours a week. They also LOVE playing football, unlike a fucking service job that most college kids get.

50 hours x 7.25 (minimum wage) x 52 weeks is $18,850. Out of state college with room and board is about $25,000. Private colleges are about $35,000.

Sounds fair to me.

Also, who again is forcing these players to play? They are welcome to get a minimum wage job like the rest of us and skip the glory.

[politicman]

31. think about it will ya

I need you to think this through, cause its not that hard, ok.

If players are 'working' 50 hours a week, then they are not getting an education cause they have no time left to get a sufficient one. So the whole argument that player get a free education is blown out the window.

Secondly, if they are treated as employees as their work rate suggests, then they should be eligible to receive the benefits of employees, which means they can entertain endorsements and such, they can accept gifts of food and other items.

Currently, the players are just given scholarships which are basically just covers to get the players to play for the college in question, not a serious education.
They are not allowed to accept gifts or endorsements and they are not allowed to get the same benefits that professional athletes get.

Do you not see how colleges exploit these players, they treat them as professional athletes yet they compensate them as students under scholarships and restrict them from any outside compensation.

[Logical]

32. LOL, they WANT to play football. No one is making them. And you think many college.....

students do not work 30-50 hours a week? How do they study?

And the normal student ends up with student loans to pay off.

Want a list of college players who obtained a "serious education"?

[politicman]

35. please tell me you are joking

Please tell me you are not serious.

What is the difference between 'professional' ball players and 'college' ball players? There is no difference between the amount of time that both sets of players are being required to dedicate to their sport, yet one earns millions a year (plus endorsements and gifts) and one is not allowed anything with a monetary value.

The college basketball comp got a tv rights deal worth 10.8 billion dollars, yet the player of the tournament said himself that he starved some nights because he had no money to buy food and asnt allowed to accept any food as a gift.


Normal students are not exploited by their colleges to make the college money, they are the ones that pay the college for an education.

Whereas players are brought to colleges to be exploited by them.

If a college was to just ask for the fees for an education, then they would be making way less than what they are making by exploiting these players.

Either the colleges need to fairly compensate their ball players, or they need to lift the restrictions on ball players accepting outside money or outside gifts.

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. So you think you need to make it about race and politics?

I think both tactics would be a good way to destroy support for the students. Do you have evidence that the problems are only with universities in 'red states'? If so, how come those at Northwestern are involved? Are you saying they should be happy with their lot, because they're in a 'blue' state?

While I expect the proportion of athletes from a minority background is larger than the overall student population, are you saying this is really a race problem? If so, what evidence do you have for it? It needs to be damn obvious so that the average person, seeing student-athletes work damn hard, risk their health and not get paid, doesn't then think "but they're saying this is about race, and I can't see that, so I'm going to ignore them".

Finally, how do you expect this boycott to be organised? Getting together individuals to act against organisations who are exploiting them, such as in a boycott, is a classic union action.

[CBGLuthier]

22. Gee, that sounds kind of stupid.

But what would DU be without the occasional stupid state bashing thread? A lot of subtle racism in this post also.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

33. since it's not about the money to the students, there's only one way to settle this...

single-payer health care.

student athletes win - they have health care for life (that's what this is all about...allegedly)
universities win - they keep all the loot
general student body wins - surely the universities would have raised tuition to make up for shortfalls

Everybody wins!! most of all, all Americans

[99Forever]

38. Thread win.

But the players should still get a piece of the pie THEY bake and not be used as slave labor.

[idendoit]

37. Strike first, then unionize?

I see a bad end for that.