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kentuck

(110,950 posts)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:14 PM Mar 2014

Is it time for a "fatwa" from Skinner?

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Skinner (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Last edited Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:41 PM - Edit history (1)

Is it time to re-evaluate Admin's decision to be more open to conservative and non-progressive opinions?

In the early days of DU, many opinions now prominent on DU would have been short-lived. They would have been "tombstoned". DU was for progressive-minded folks because conservative thought was dominant everywhere. We did not need more of it on DU.

I understand that times change and sometimes decisions are made for economic reasons. Has DU somehow forgotten that it is radical conservatism that is the enemy of us all? There is no room for compromise.

244 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Is it time for a "fatwa" from Skinner? (Original Post) kentuck Mar 2014 OP
Fat what ? dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #1
It's an egg based Italian dish. Glassunion Mar 2014 #20
Mmmmmmmmm mmmmmm Champion Jack Mar 2014 #46
I once dated an Italian dish Boom Sound 416 Mar 2014 #130
More importantly Glassunion Mar 2014 #143
I thought he said flattire.... Javaman Mar 2014 #102
Or battery ? dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #107
I say we take those two conservative/non-progressive guys out back and waste them BeyondGeography Mar 2014 #2
++++1 Tarheel_Dem Mar 2014 #5
LOL. wall_dish Mar 2014 #50
Welcome to DU, wall_dish! calimary Mar 2014 #140
Thank you calimary. wall_dish Mar 2014 #144
Nahhh! Just kneecap them! LongTomH Mar 2014 #153
Skinner should issue a Fat Burger LittleBlue Mar 2014 #3
Hmmm...if Skinner is not hungry, I am. Rex Mar 2014 #17
I'll take mine without the bacon Aerows Mar 2014 #19
Actually keep the bacon, add some chili and a fried egg.. truebrit71 Mar 2014 #97
Oh man Aerows Mar 2014 #118
Which is why I only have that once a year when I visit So. Cal... truebrit71 Mar 2014 #125
Mmm fries CFLDem Mar 2014 #31
I want onion rings! RKP5637 Mar 2014 #66
Sometimes when you go to Burger King CFLDem Mar 2014 #69
LOL, yep, same here! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2014 #78
I've never liked BK's onion rings. They are more like onion fritters shaped into rings. To me, a genwah Mar 2014 #133
BK's rings are absolutely gross. JimDandy Mar 2014 #137
pop eyes onion rings are the best thing on the menu AngryAmish Mar 2014 #155
Or get the $1 Rodeo Burger blueamy66 Mar 2014 #235
OMG. That looks fantastic. cyberswede Mar 2014 #47
I'll take 2! Champion Jack Mar 2014 #48
Oh god, don't get started with that NickB79 Mar 2014 #86
DUzy!!! ROFL!!!! calimary Mar 2014 #139
That would be entertaining. I wonder if I'd survive. nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #4
I would prefer that he issue a falafel, QC Mar 2014 #6
LOL JohnRogan Mar 2014 #57
Falafels for all! Hekate Mar 2014 #132
in others words: youre different so out you go. or we dont want your kind round these parts. leftyohiolib Mar 2014 #7
Only if you are more like "them" than us. kentuck Mar 2014 #11
+1000 MissDeeds Mar 2014 #159
There is Defintely a Right vs Left Ideological War going on here fascisthunter Mar 2014 #8
more like Pragmatist v. Ideologue KittyWampus Mar 2014 #13
more like... centrist vs liberal fascisthunter Mar 2014 #18
Or maybe Republican policies vs Dem policies within the Dem Party. polichick Mar 2014 #56
you expected iamthebandfanman Mar 2014 #74
I agree. Most folks agree on what they would like to see. We just don't agree... stevenleser Mar 2014 #23
and THERE is the Realists part.... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #217
Yep. MLK was a real trouble-maker he was. cui bono Mar 2014 #226
Comparing yourself to MLK is the epitome of delusions of grandeur.... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #239
I am sure in these days and times Teabagger Congress and all.... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #241
Prosecuting known torturers is hardly utopian, is it? grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #228
Then maybe it wasn't ABOUT you either.... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #240
That's basically it. JoePhilly Mar 2014 #119
I think you're right about that Warpy Mar 2014 #136
omg continental all the way laundry_queen Mar 2014 #209
Agreed, the English do everything backward Warpy Mar 2014 #221
Here's a great example: AverageJoe90 Mar 2014 #174
Personally, I think that someone who endorses a Conservadem candidate Art_from_Ark Mar 2014 #224
+1000 nt MsLeopard Mar 2014 #242
Or Realists vs Idealists... VanillaRhapsody Mar 2014 #215
No, that is not true. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #64
But if Skinner tombstoned anyone who called a poster "Right-Wing" Demeter Mar 2014 #72
You might have to swear off food for a while DFW Mar 2014 #230
Centrists are to the right of what you call "far left". fascisthunter Mar 2014 #73
But there are virtually none on DU. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #80
Hmmmm. fascisthunter Mar 2014 #89
That's a strong point. The practical problem is that it is not consistent across all issues BlueStreak Mar 2014 #114
+1 an entire shit load! Enthusiast Mar 2014 #233
IDK. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2014 #9
Those who oppose unions may need to spend time doing research to learn Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #25
That is a good point - TBF Mar 2014 #34
It's time ban all DINOs CJCRANE Mar 2014 #10
I think, just to be safe, we should get rid of everybody but CJCRANE. nt el_bryanto Mar 2014 #14
That should just about do it CJCRANE Mar 2014 #33
Good one brush Mar 2014 #126
Hmm...a guy wonders just who you mean. MineralMan Mar 2014 #21
Can't help but think of this... Scootaloo Mar 2014 #44
... CJCRANE Mar 2014 #68
"But we don't want the Irish!" riqster Mar 2014 #101
Could you repeat that? I'm taking notes! LongTomH Mar 2014 #154
hahahaha Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #81
Roh oh L0oniX Mar 2014 #198
I wish I were here in those early days, because this is friggin' tiresome. Squinch Mar 2014 #12
Do they serve Waffles? Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #156
I see the kindergarten contingent has arrived. Squinch Mar 2014 #166
You were here first Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #181
I'm not really seeing any "conservative and non-progressive" MineralMan Mar 2014 #15
Off the top of my head... kentuck Mar 2014 #24
Nobody defended the Iraq war; they defended a comment that didn't even defend the Iraq war BeyondGeography Mar 2014 #29
Well, it's good to get that cleared up.. kentuck Mar 2014 #38
Unfortunately, we've already established that group wants to interpret things in such a way to be stevenleser Mar 2014 #49
The OP's "fatwa" might as well be extended to anyone with basic reading comprehension BeyondGeography Mar 2014 #85
That's the way I see it too Progressive dog Mar 2014 #96
yep you nailed it nt steve2470 Mar 2014 #173
Well, that leaves me off your list, then. MineralMan Mar 2014 #42
Seriously? BainsBane Mar 2014 #148
I'm pretty much a GD guy. MineralMan Mar 2014 #151
No, because many of those same people BainsBane Mar 2014 #160
If they say they will not vote for Democrats, MineralMan Mar 2014 #162
That's what I see this OP as being about BainsBane Mar 2014 #163
All anyone can do, then, is alert on such posts. MineralMan Mar 2014 #164
Someone dares criticize the president on one issue and you think Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #16
Oh c'mon Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #22
True, but... Violet_Crumble Mar 2014 #231
I didn't read the OP like that whatsoever NoOneMan Mar 2014 #43
I read it as wanting the non-Democrats BainsBane Mar 2014 #195
I think some should be careful what they ask for. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #26
I don't know about fatwas, but this is NOT a progressive, liberal, or even Democratic website. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2014 #27
I'm hating the atmosphere that's developed here: BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2014 #84
I find it hard to get balanced information as well. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2014 #91
yep... BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2014 #109
The entertainment factor is one good side-effect. Sheldon Cooper Mar 2014 #111
lol! BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2014 #113
Well said, Blanche. nt Hekate Mar 2014 #138
thanks Hekate.. BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2014 #142
Right on, Blanche! llmart Mar 2014 #190
Plus a million. I saw a snotty little comment yesterday deriding someone that didn't have a star Number23 Mar 2014 #168
I caught that too Cirque du So-What Mar 2014 #177
Exactly. I've had plenty of stars by my name in the past. Not any more. Number23 Mar 2014 #192
I saw that too BainsBane Mar 2014 #194
So how would we handle it if the "conservative opinion" happens to also be the Administrations hughee99 Mar 2014 #28
This is the conundrum. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2014 #45
Let's start with the resident Libertarians, because the mission of this board is partisan for Dems.. Tarheel_Dem Mar 2014 #30
The definition of libertarian has been deformed by the BOG Doctor_J Mar 2014 #51
Hit a nerve? Tarheel_Dem Mar 2014 #58
LOL, now there's the humor! Iliyah Mar 2014 #82
more like missed a target Doctor_J Mar 2014 #94
You mean "morons" like these? Tarheel_Dem Mar 2014 #112
A realist knows that you don't get very far without compromise somewhere... Hip_Flask Mar 2014 #32
And a poker player knows that if you have a "full house", Art_from_Ark Mar 2014 #225
It's hardly surprising to me BainsBane Mar 2014 #35
That's a good point. I don't know if it's an across the board condition. el_bryanto Mar 2014 #40
"Self-absorbed nihilism" comes about as close as I've seen to capturing it. stevenleser Mar 2014 #67
I think for some ... JoePhilly Mar 2014 #120
That is misguided BainsBane Mar 2014 #131
I tend to agree with your assessment ... JoePhilly Mar 2014 #152
Reminds me of Christians who long for the Rapture-- only total destruction will bring Jesus, or... Hekate Mar 2014 #145
Which opinion now prominent on DU concerns you the most? (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2014 #36
Are you suggesting that Skinner get rid of the BOG or something? NoOneMan Mar 2014 #37
You can't educate people in internet discussion Scootaloo Mar 2014 #52
I think it is unfair to describe any DU mod or admin action as a "fatwa" Yo_Mama Mar 2014 #39
The consequences of the jury system Renew Deal Mar 2014 #41
Framing fail.... Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #53
This... one_voice Mar 2014 #59
Like I said.... Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #70
I find the fan club aspect TBF Mar 2014 #54
I'd like to see the SOP of GD enforced. That would help a lot. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #55
And the TOS while we are at it. stevenleser Mar 2014 #63
Become a GD host, then. MineralMan Mar 2014 #65
No thanks, I don't like what I see of the backstage culture here. I'd like to see those who Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #172
There was an Admin decision to be more open to conservative and non-progressive opinions? Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #60
they have stated anti-choice opinions are welcome fizzgig Mar 2014 #146
I knew we had anti-choice assholes here... Ohio Joe Mar 2014 #171
i cannot belive they tolerate it fizzgig Mar 2014 #178
We're going to need some duct tape. /nt pintobean Mar 2014 #61
... TBF Mar 2014 #117
no, I think it's time to shift the discussion to something like alternative medicine, E-cigarettes, Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #62
In other words donco Mar 2014 #71
Half of DU would be wiped out. Puzzledtraveller Mar 2014 #75
I think if most everyone just smoked a "fat one", it might lighten up n/t seveneyes Mar 2014 #76
With a couple chasers too. Puzzledtraveller Mar 2014 #79
Maybe part of the problem is too many chasers. flying rabbit Mar 2014 #100
OOh! Can I declare a fat one too? demwing Mar 2014 #116
Right? Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #212
The only purge that will happen, in that case, LWolf Mar 2014 #77
Sounds like a very conservative thing to do actually. Fearless Mar 2014 #83
I used to be comfortable here knowing that the repukes were not here and if Maraya1969 Mar 2014 #87
I am deeply hopeful this is satire. WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #88
Sorry, I meant to put in quotations.. kentuck Mar 2014 #123
Conservative trolls get banned... SidDithers Mar 2014 #90
Conservative Canadian trolls seldom get banned Dragonfli Mar 2014 #196
Conservative trolls get banned, regardless of their nationality... SidDithers Mar 2014 #197
If they are banned why is it I read their posts HERE? Dragonfli Mar 2014 #210
MIRT and admins ban conservative trolls everyday... SidDithers Mar 2014 #211
What about the moderate trolls? U4ikLefty Mar 2014 #227
There is much more to trolling than left-right political spectrum position. Bernardo de La Paz Mar 2014 #237
No, but it'd be nice to see a crackdown on pure propaganda Corruption Inc Mar 2014 #92
Nah... I just think Folks Should Cool it a Little fascisthunter Mar 2014 #93
Good timing. Brown shirts are on sale at Penneys. n/t jtuck004 Mar 2014 #95
Usually I only trash gun threads in gd geckosfeet Mar 2014 #98
I have racked up over 60 jury appearances since Oct. Brigid Mar 2014 #99
I notice that the threads that we agree on sink like stones. LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #103
~~~~~~~~~^THIS nt~~~~~~~~~~ SunsetDreams Mar 2014 #121
Is this how the zombie apocalypse starts? nt Javaman Mar 2014 #104
I long for these days: ProSense Mar 2014 #105
Give it 24 business hours. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #201
No nt hack89 Mar 2014 #106
Bringing back Unrec would eliminate the problem IMO. tridim Mar 2014 #108
I agree, I think that would help. laundry_queen Mar 2014 #213
unrec was a good thing nt justabob Mar 2014 #218
Purge!! Purge!!! CBGLuthier Mar 2014 #110
Much as I would like to agree Kelvin Mace Mar 2014 #115
Yikes! Sensor other's "opinions"?!? SoapBox Mar 2014 #122
A fatwa? Is that something you put on pizza? NuclearDem Mar 2014 #124
Fatwa was what we called my cousin, Fat Wally when I was a kid. The term must bluestate10 Mar 2014 #220
Fat Chance. Nt Hekate Mar 2014 #127
Times do change..... BlueJac Mar 2014 #128
Yes, they do. kentuck Mar 2014 #135
Yes, so true BlueJac Mar 2014 #150
There was a very recent post by a self-described NC Dem Doctor_J Mar 2014 #206
If Skinner wants a fatwa, he'll create one. riqster Mar 2014 #129
I agree get the red out Mar 2014 #134
Some of the really obviously conservative right-wingers should be banned. JDPriestly Mar 2014 #141
"Nonsense posts?" Sometimes, the only way to respond to a GD barroom brawl is with humour! LongTomH Mar 2014 #158
If you think a post is nonsense, then put the person who posted it on 'ignore' muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #186
We've had to put up with a lot of RW crap BainsBane Mar 2014 #147
So who are these non-Democrats you keep posting about in this thread? NutmegYankee Mar 2014 #185
people who openly say BainsBane Mar 2014 #187
I haven't come across any. NutmegYankee Mar 2014 #188
look in the thread BainsBane Mar 2014 #193
I prefer a good old Stalin-esque purge, mahself... AzDar Mar 2014 #149
You misspelled "forgotTen" underpants Mar 2014 #157
Thanks! kentuck Mar 2014 #165
But it was a good try underpants Mar 2014 #170
Like you, I've been here from the beginning Gman Mar 2014 #161
You've been called a corporatist? DFW Mar 2014 #229
I'm amused at everyone's confidence that they wouldn't be on the receiving end of the purge club. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2014 #167
My first post (and probably only) KapUSMC Mar 2014 #169
Welcome to DU, friend. AverageJoe90 Mar 2014 #176
I Have Seen Worse Analysis Of The Place, Sir The Magistrate Mar 2014 #180
some here don't care about winning elections, they just want to rant and rave OKNancy Mar 2014 #189
Hoo Boy, I'll say. Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #207
Why should we? We won huge in 2008 and got nothing but Republican policies for it Doctor_J Mar 2014 #208
The party has also "drifted." polichick Mar 2014 #214
If the ultimate goal is to win elections? kentuck Mar 2014 #191
Re: If the ultimate goal is to win elections? KapUSMC Mar 2014 #205
Respectfully, what issues would you like to see us compromise with the right on? Hippo_Tron Mar 2014 #216
Elections these days NEVER bring about results "that we want." DFW Mar 2014 #232
Welcome to DU and I would like to share my opinion with you Samantha Mar 2014 #199
why do the votes have to come from the center? justabob Mar 2014 #219
Obama is ideologically right of center... MellowDem Mar 2014 #234
"if the ultimate goal is to win elections" TBF Mar 2014 #244
no Skittles Mar 2014 #175
i know very little about former DU policies since I am new here Shoulders of Giants Mar 2014 #179
DU feels more like a "general" political discussion board etherealtruth Mar 2014 #182
I had no idea Skinner was an Imam. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2014 #183
This message was self-deleted by its author cherokeeprogressive Mar 2014 #184
I'd gladly accept a fatty from Skinner... L0oniX Mar 2014 #200
You think because there is a D in the White House... Deep13 Mar 2014 #202
Why not just put people on ignore ZombieHorde Mar 2014 #203
Wouldn't that make it...a skinnywa? nt pinboy3niner Mar 2014 #204
You got it. Stand and Fight Mar 2014 #222
No. It's time for DUers to stop getting the vapors about the breadth of views in our party. Recursion Mar 2014 #223
Some of us came here to fight against the neocons go west young man Mar 2014 #236
Well said! another_liberal Mar 2014 #243
A call for eliminating opposing points of view is not progressive, or democratic. another_liberal Mar 2014 #238

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
1. Fat what ?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:15 PM
Mar 2014

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
20. It's an egg based Italian dish.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:27 PM
Mar 2014

Champion Jack

(5,378 posts)
46. Mmmmmmmmm mmmmmm
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:40 PM
Mar 2014
 

Boom Sound 416

(4,185 posts)
130. I once dated an Italian dish
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:23 PM
Mar 2014

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
143. More importantly
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:55 PM
Mar 2014

Were they egg based?

Javaman

(62,439 posts)
102. I thought he said flattire....
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:29 PM
Mar 2014

dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
107. Or battery ?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:33 PM
Mar 2014

BeyondGeography

(39,278 posts)
2. I say we take those two conservative/non-progressive guys out back and waste them
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:15 PM
Mar 2014

Whoever they are.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
5. ++++1
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:19 PM
Mar 2014



 

wall_dish

(85 posts)
50. LOL.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:41 PM
Mar 2014

Waterboard them until they admit their transgressions and then waste them for treason.

calimary

(80,693 posts)
140. Welcome to DU, wall_dish!
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:51 PM
Mar 2014

Glad you're here! It's a lovely fantasy, isn't it?

 

wall_dish

(85 posts)
144. Thank you calimary.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:55 PM
Mar 2014

Lovely fantasy is right, but only a fantasy.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
153. Nahhh! Just kneecap them!
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:12 PM
Mar 2014
 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
3. Skinner should issue a Fat Burger
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:17 PM
Mar 2014


 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
17. Hmmm...if Skinner is not hungry, I am.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:25 PM
Mar 2014

YUMM.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
19. I'll take mine without the bacon
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:26 PM
Mar 2014

and a little more rare.

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
97. Actually keep the bacon, add some chili and a fried egg..
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:23 PM
Mar 2014

Last edited Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:17 PM - Edit history (1)

...and you've got heaven (and a heart-attack) on a bun....

Bloody good thing they don't have a Fatburger 'round here...

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
118. Oh man
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:59 PM
Mar 2014

You are a no-holds-barred burger eater!

 

truebrit71

(20,805 posts)
125. Which is why I only have that once a year when I visit So. Cal...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:16 PM
Mar 2014

...any more frequently than that and I'd be dead... :-D

 

CFLDem

(2,083 posts)
31. Mmm fries
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:31 PM
Mar 2014

RKP5637

(67,030 posts)
66. I want onion rings!
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:51 PM
Mar 2014
 

CFLDem

(2,083 posts)
69. Sometimes when you go to Burger King
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:52 PM
Mar 2014

you can accidentally get both. That's how I know I'm having a lucky day!

RKP5637

(67,030 posts)
78. LOL, yep, same here! n/t
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:04 PM
Mar 2014

genwah

(574 posts)
133. I've never liked BK's onion rings. They are more like onion fritters shaped into rings. To me, a
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:32 PM
Mar 2014

diced onion batter fried in oil is a fritter, I don't care how it's shaped.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
137. BK's rings are absolutely gross.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:42 PM
Mar 2014

The best fast food ones I've ever had were at Carls Jr and at Zips.

But, so I don't contribute to the thread hijacking, I am also getting awfully tired of having to sift through the tons of conservative, pro-corporate, pro-MIC and pro-NSA surveillance posts that are now all over DU on some days.

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
155. pop eyes onion rings are the best thing on the menu
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:19 PM
Mar 2014

Always fresh made.

 

blueamy66

(6,795 posts)
235. Or get the $1 Rodeo Burger
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 08:31 AM
Mar 2014

Yummy bbq sauce and onions rings on the hamburger. For a buck!

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
47. OMG. That looks fantastic.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:41 PM
Mar 2014

Champion Jack

(5,378 posts)
48. I'll take 2!
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:41 PM
Mar 2014

NickB79

(19,111 posts)
86. Oh god, don't get started with that
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:13 PM
Mar 2014

The animal welfare/animal rights/environmental destruction-caused-by-meat arguments back and forth would go down in history here on DU.

calimary

(80,693 posts)
139. DUzy!!! ROFL!!!!
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:50 PM
Mar 2014

I'll take one of those! Out back, and waste it!

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
4. That would be entertaining. I wonder if I'd survive. nt
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:17 PM
Mar 2014

QC

(26,371 posts)
6. I would prefer that he issue a falafel,
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:20 PM
Mar 2014

since I am a vegetarian and all.

 

JohnRogan

(51 posts)
57. LOL
Reply to QC (Reply #6)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:45 PM
Mar 2014

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
132. Falafels for all!
Reply to QC (Reply #6)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:23 PM
Mar 2014

Best idea yet.

 

leftyohiolib

(5,917 posts)
7. in others words: youre different so out you go. or we dont want your kind round these parts.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:20 PM
Mar 2014

seems to me everyone sittin around with like minds and like thoughts without any toleration towards others who are different than you seems a little right wingy.

"youre different therefore we wont tolerate you". what also seems to me is that there are many groups of various types that have and still hear this very thing and you want to bring it into the big tent?

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
11. Only if you are more like "them" than us.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:23 PM
Mar 2014

Democrats have to stand for something.

 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
159. +1000
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:25 PM
Mar 2014

Hopefully something that resembles Democratic ideals, not DINO ideals.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
8. There is Defintely a Right vs Left Ideological War going on here
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:21 PM
Mar 2014
 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
13. more like Pragmatist v. Ideologue
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:24 PM
Mar 2014
 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
18. more like... centrist vs liberal
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:26 PM
Mar 2014

actually, just right vs left within the democratic party.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
56. Or maybe Republican policies vs Dem policies within the Dem Party.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:45 PM
Mar 2014

iamthebandfanman

(8,127 posts)
74. you expected
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:01 PM
Mar 2014

the neo-cons to give up without a fight?
DU has been targeted by centrists groups for years now in an attempt to sway moods and thoughts in our community

a thriving website giving out liberal solutions probably isn't seen as a very grand thing to anyone not a liberal

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
23. I agree. Most folks agree on what they would like to see. We just don't agree...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:28 PM
Mar 2014

on how much any current politician can do to move us in that direction.

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
217. and THERE is the Realists part....
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:10 PM
Mar 2014

its the idealists that are causing all the trouble....you cannot have a strategy when all you want is some utopia that can never be achieved....they have zero ability to understand that their opponents are not going to just roll over and let them have their "utopia"...they don't care about that...even if they were able to get what they wanted...they would just shout and stomp their feet and throw more temper tantrums because even that wouldn't be good enough. The whole point is....as long as they are complaining...nobody expects them to do anything about it...easy peasy.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
226. Yep. MLK was a real trouble-maker he was.
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 05:42 AM
Mar 2014

If only he would have realized that his opponents were not going to just roll over and let him have his "utopia". How dare he protest and march. His complaining... sheesh... didn't he realize nobody expected him to do anything about it?

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
239. Comparing yourself to MLK is the epitome of delusions of grandeur....
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 09:26 AM
Mar 2014

Do you have a complex? You think these are about YOU apparently.....

guilty conscious?

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
241. I am sure in these days and times Teabagger Congress and all....
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 09:32 AM
Mar 2014

President Obama and the Democrats would be the object of MLK's dissastisfaction.....right...keep telling yourself that.

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
228. Prosecuting known torturers is hardly utopian, is it?
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 06:07 AM
Mar 2014
 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
240. Then maybe it wasn't ABOUT you either....
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 09:29 AM
Mar 2014

are YOU here to bash Democrats or support them....I don't care what your pet peeve issue is....answer the question...simple as that.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
119. That's basically it.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:59 PM
Mar 2014

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
136. I think you're right about that
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:41 PM
Mar 2014

and it's true of any party or any website. You should see the continental vs. English debates on my knitting site.

Still, I'd love to see the "underground" put back into Democratic Underground. It should be a haven for progressives, not a hospital for disenchanted Republicans.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
209. omg continental all the way
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:10 PM
Mar 2014

3 different people tried to teach me the English way over the years. It was hopeless, I sucked, never got the hang of it, the resulting scarf always looked terrible! Then, a friend said that some people had their brains wired for continental and taught me that way. Took me 5 minutes to learn and by the end of the week, I was faster than her friend who had been knitting (English) for 25 years. Now I can knit stuff that is adorable and complicated. woohoo!

Thought I'd bring the debate over here to DU (since I've never been on a knitting board yet...). Something has to compete with left v right, breastfeeding, circumcision, Olive Garden, pit bulls etc etc. Time for something new!

Warpy

(110,900 posts)
221. Agreed, the English do everything backward
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 01:48 AM
Mar 2014

and I'm a picker instead of a thrower, too.

Let the games begin!

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
174. Here's a great example:
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:17 PM
Mar 2014

Climate realists(those who understand the dangers of climate change but who don't buy into end-of-the-world theories and who realize that all is not lost) vs. Climate Doomers("It's worse than we thought! Worse than we thought! Wooooorrrssseee thaannnn weeeeee thooooouuuuught!". Y'know, stuff like that).

Here's a few more:

Those who disagree with "White Privilege" theory vs. its most fanatical defenders.

Those who know that Obama is trying to do the best he can vs. those who believe he's not "liberal enough".

Those who realize that a centrist Democrat winning is better than a progressive losing vs. those who believe that only running progressives will work no matter the political situation.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
224. Personally, I think that someone who endorses a Conservadem candidate
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 05:22 AM
Mar 2014

Last edited Sat Mar 29, 2014, 10:06 AM - Edit history (2)

over a liberal candidate in a Democratic primary, even makes a video for that Conservadem candidate, is definitely not "liberal enough".

MsLeopard

(1,265 posts)
242. +1000 nt
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 09:57 AM
Mar 2014
 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
215. Or Realists vs Idealists...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:05 PM
Mar 2014

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
64. No, that is not true.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:50 PM
Mar 2014

There are heated arguments between left-wingers with different views on different issues, but there's virtually no-one on DU who could be described as a "right-winger", and very, very few who could even be described as "centrist" by American standards*; most of the debate is between people from the far, far left of American political spectrum, and in many of the disagreements it's not obvious which position is the more left-wing one.

Describing it as "left vs right" smacks of an attempt to grab the moral high ground by playing "leftier than thou", I think.


*Note that that's an important qualifier; by European standards many more DUers are centrist.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
72. But if Skinner tombstoned anyone who called a poster "Right-Wing"
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:57 PM
Mar 2014

I wouldn't mind at all. In fact, I'd pay money for it.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
230. You might have to swear off food for a while
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 06:19 AM
Mar 2014

Even I was called a neo-con once on here. Your post could get expensive!

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
73. Centrists are to the right of what you call "far left".
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:01 PM
Mar 2014

I didn't say right winger or even bring them up. I'm talking purely about the democratic party as a whole. I do see centrists as being very corporate friendly and more willing to embrace austerity, which is very anti-populist. They are simply to the right of liberals. I do not think centrists are liberals, but I do think they are more liberal than a right winger, especially when it comes to culture.

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)
80. But there are virtually none on DU.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:06 PM
Mar 2014

I don't know who you're labelling centrists, but if you're talking about a significant number of DUers then you're wrong, almost all of them aren't centrists, they're liberals.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
89. Hmmmm.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:16 PM
Mar 2014

I honestly see policies from Obama and Hillary as being centrist positions, and notice about half the site defending those policies, whereas the other half isn't. This is why I think there is a left vs right tug-of-war going on here. I do not think most of DU is that liberal, but then again, I am pretty far to the left. I may be wrong, I'm open to that possibility.

 

BlueStreak

(8,377 posts)
114. That's a strong point. The practical problem is that it is not consistent across all issues
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:45 PM
Mar 2014

There is no doubt that H Clinton and B Obama are the sorts of politicians who talk liberal and act center -- and often far right of center. I mean, we wouldn't confuse Obama/Clinton with Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders -- or even Barbara Boxer or Al Franken. That is plain for anybody to see. I don't think there would be any debate about that. And your argument is that there are a large number of people on the site these days who reflexively defend either Hillary or Obama practically 100% of the time.

But not everything Clinton or Obama supports is to the right of Nixon or Eisenhower. Some of their positions could certainly be considered at least a little liberal.

So I don't know how one makes a litmus test here. I would turn it around. Several of us have spent some time over the past few days identifying what a 2014 Democrat's version of the old Contract with America might look like. We came up with 9 points that any real Democrat should support. I'd like to think that about 95% of the people here could support this plan, and the other 5% really should be gone. This is not a far liberal agenda. It is actually positions that polls show us have 70% - 80% support across the American public. In other words, we don't have to pursue a radical agenda to make some progress in this country. We just have to pressure the leaders to work for the majority of Americans and not for the 0.1%. Here is that plan:

Enthusiast

(50,983 posts)
233. +1 an entire shit load!
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 08:01 AM
Mar 2014

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,846 posts)
9. IDK.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:21 PM
Mar 2014

I see the bigger issue as being the establishment democrats and the leftists being at each-others throats when in reality they probably agree 95% of the time. One side takes any criticism of Obama personally, whether it's legit or not, and the other side seems to think everything is Obama's fault.



That being said, I have noticed an influx of "conservatives" recently, especially when it comes to unions, there are always 2 or 3 anti union posts in almost any labor thread.



Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
25. Those who oppose unions may need to spend time doing research to learn
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:29 PM
Mar 2014

The positive aspects of unions, what they do, who they help and why they are good.

TBF

(31,921 posts)
34. That is a good point -
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:33 PM
Mar 2014

I am older and have a dad who belonged to a union. How many folks who are under 40 in this country have had that experience? Not nearly enough would be my guess.

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
10. It's time ban all DINOs
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:23 PM
Mar 2014

including loyalists, firebaggers, Obamabots, moonbats, Vichy Democrats, milquetoast Democrats, conservadems, Blue Dogs, Red Dogs,Green Dogs, emoprogs, pseudoprogs, pseudopods and...

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
14. I think, just to be safe, we should get rid of everybody but CJCRANE. nt
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:24 PM
Mar 2014

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
33. That should just about do it
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:32 PM
Mar 2014

but I'm not even sure about that guy.

brush

(53,467 posts)
126. Good one
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:18 PM
Mar 2014

I like your sense of humor.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
21. Hmm...a guy wonders just who you mean.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:27 PM
Mar 2014

I don't really think "we" should be banning anyone who posts here in support of Democrats, either in office or running for office.

That seems to me to be basic good sense, somehow.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
44. Can't help but think of this...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:39 PM
Mar 2014

CJCRANE

(18,184 posts)
68. ...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:52 PM
Mar 2014


riqster

(13,986 posts)
101. "But we don't want the Irish!"
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:27 PM
Mar 2014

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
154. Could you repeat that? I'm taking notes!
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:17 PM
Mar 2014
 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
81. hahahaha
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:07 PM
Mar 2014
 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
198. Roh oh
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:25 PM
Mar 2014

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
12. I wish I were here in those early days, because this is friggin' tiresome.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:23 PM
Mar 2014

Can't believe the "let the Democrats die in the election" crap I'm arguing against here. People are overt about their wish for the conservatives to win. It's like Christmas dinner at my tea bagger relatives' house.

 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
156. Do they serve Waffles?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:21 PM
Mar 2014

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
166. I see the kindergarten contingent has arrived.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 05:06 PM
Mar 2014
 

Katashi_itto

(10,175 posts)
181. You were here first
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:38 PM
Mar 2014

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
15. I'm not really seeing any "conservative and non-progressive"
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:24 PM
Mar 2014

opinions being posted here. Can you point me to some of those with links?

I'm puzzled by your post.

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
24. Off the top of my head...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:28 PM
Mar 2014

Al the comments that defend the Iraq War or those that attempt to justify that despicable episode. Just scroll down the threads.,

BeyondGeography

(39,278 posts)
29. Nobody defended the Iraq war; they defended a comment that didn't even defend the Iraq war
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:31 PM
Mar 2014

A comment that started with, "I was opposed to the Iraq war."

Can we stop with this bullshit already?

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
38. Well, it's good to get that cleared up..
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:36 PM
Mar 2014

That is progress if we can all agree with your opinion about the Iraq War.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
49. Unfortunately, we've already established that group wants to interpret things in such a way to be
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:41 PM
Mar 2014

able to attack the President. They will stretch any statement to, and perhaps beyond, the breaking point to do so.

BeyondGeography

(39,278 posts)
85. The OP's "fatwa" might as well be extended to anyone with basic reading comprehension
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:10 PM
Mar 2014

Progressive dog

(6,861 posts)
96. That's the way I see it too
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:20 PM
Mar 2014

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
173. yep you nailed it nt
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:15 PM
Mar 2014

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
42. Well, that leaves me off your list, then.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:37 PM
Mar 2014

To tell the truth, though, I haven't seen anyone defending the Iraq war around here. I see people defending the President's words regarding it, but then, he ended that war and opposed it very early on.

But, I'm not seeing anyone saying the Iraq war was a good idea. I can't imagine anyone saying exactly that on DU.

I can imagine people here saying that it took time to end it, because that's a true statement. I can imagine people here saying that leaving that war was difficult. But, I see nobody defending it on DU.

Again, if you can point out someone saying that the Iraq war was justifiable with a link, I'll go have a look.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
148. Seriously?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:03 PM
Mar 2014

Ever have a look in the gungeon? You notice all the opposition to feminism and discussions of racism? That all looks damn conservative to me.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
151. I'm pretty much a GD guy.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:06 PM
Mar 2014

I have noticed misogynistic posts and, as member of MIRT, have voted to PPR newcomers who take those positions. The whole gun issue is a morass, and I tend to stay away from it as much as possible.

In any case, I don't believe that's what the poster is talking about.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
160. No, because many of those same people
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:25 PM
Mar 2014

now say they will not vote for Democrats.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
162. If they say they will not vote for Democrats,
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:32 PM
Mar 2014

then they are in violation of the DU TOS. That's an admin issue.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
163. That's what I see this OP as being about
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:34 PM
Mar 2014

because in the past couple of days I've seen a number of people say quite clearly they will not be voting for Democrats. It is a TOS issue.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
164. All anyone can do, then, is alert on such posts.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:36 PM
Mar 2014

If the admins choose to, they can take action. As individual DUers, that's really the only option we have, other than to bring up the issue in a thread.

 

Vashta Nerada

(3,922 posts)
16. Someone dares criticize the president on one issue and you think
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:25 PM
Mar 2014

The admins should issue a fatwa?

Capt. Obvious

(9,002 posts)
22. Oh c'mon
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:27 PM
Mar 2014

we haven't had a pogrom for like, 12 hours.

Violet_Crumble

(35,954 posts)
231. True, but...
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 06:24 AM
Mar 2014

Can you last remember when we had a putsch? I can't, and I'm holding out hope the atmosphere could be rife for one...

 

NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)
43. I didn't read the OP like that whatsoever
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:38 PM
Mar 2014

They are posting about the prevaleance of conservative and anti-progressive values. Those here criticizing the president normally do not share these characteristics. Rather, its normally the defenders of the establishment, third-way, status quo position who do. I'm pretty sure the OP wants the establishment, conservative "democrats" banished. Right?

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
195. I read it as wanting the non-Democrats
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 08:34 PM
Mar 2014

Banned. There are a number of people at war with the Democratic party. If someone refuses to vote Democrat and consistently bashes the Dems, it makes zero difference if they imagine themselves to be leftist or not. When their actions and posting suppresses the Dem vote and paves the way for GOP electoral success, they are the same as the Repunlicans as far as I'm Concerned. I don't care what their excuse is, nor do I necessarily believe it. What matters is what people do. If they argue the two partIes are the same and won't vote for Democrats, they might as well be Republicans since the results of their positions are the same: Increasing GOP power. I seriously doubt the OP wants to ban Democrats to make more space for self-absorbed nihilists who for some inexplicable reason only just figured out the US govt serves moneyed interests, something every single administration has done since the birth of the Republic.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
26. I think some should be careful what they ask for.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:29 PM
Mar 2014

Might not like what they hear. That includes me.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
27. I don't know about fatwas, but this is NOT a progressive, liberal, or even Democratic website.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:30 PM
Mar 2014

The sexist, racist, and anti-gay shit that is endorsed here is appalling, for a place that claims to promote Democrats and Democratic (sic) principles. The abuse of Obama, and yes, it's abuse and not constructive criticism, is mind-boggling.

Now if that's what the owners are satisfied with, fine. It's their website, they can do whatever the hell they want. But let's not kid ourselves about what this site actually is.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
84. I'm hating the atmosphere that's developed here:
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:10 PM
Mar 2014

If you DON'T "critique" this president in really hostile, volatile ways, you're subjected to hostile, volatile insults here.

It makes it HARDER to look with a reasonable critical eye at the whole picture, positive and negative.

I want to read useful information, learn when I'm missing something. There's too much complexity for one person to understand everything going on. But i don't want to be attacked because I haven't expressed enough hatred for PBO.....yet that's what seems to be the dividing line here now.

Also, the interpretation that PBO supports something because he doesn't use the snarky and/or incendiary language we use here is ridiculous. Asinine. Ignorant. Childish.

Also also, thinking that cowboy tactics are what we need to right the sick system that's developed over 30 and more years is about instant gratification.

/end rant.

PS on edit... The extreme PBO bashing doesnt help get more dems elected. Which is critical, because the pukes are dangerous. As in, malignantly, climactically, urgently dangerous.

====
I said this elsewhere; I'm sayin it again.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
91. I find it hard to get balanced information as well.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:18 PM
Mar 2014

One group is screaming that Obama is a fucking so-and-so, the other is engaging in cult of personality worship at a disturbing level.

I have been bothered by a lot of what the President has done, or not done, so I'm no cheerleader. But I also know that he has to work within certain parameters and to expect more just isn't reasonable.

The main thing we, as a democratic community, need to do is work to get more Democrats elected. We need to outnumber them because that's basically our only hope for the time being. Republicans are indeed very dangerous, especially to women and minorities, and they MUST be stopped.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
109. yep...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:35 PM
Mar 2014

I admit to liking him a lot, and being aware of the massive deterioration he's charged with managing, I feel more supportive than negative. Imagine that, I have to feel I must apologize for saying I like him, because I don't want to be attacked!

But if I'm going to develop a balanced opinion and make intelligent deductions, I need to read realistic critique and realistic praise. Explanations of what's going on......I can only speak about issues I feel I have some understanding about.

as you said, republicans are indeed very dangerous, especially to women and minorities, AND the planet...and they MUST be stopped. I agree, we have got to outnumber them. Breaking down the repuke media/network monopoly should also head the list.


I will say one "devil's advocate" thing, though----the intensity and talking points around here does make for momentary entertainment! Really pulls you in and appeals to emotions like anger, offense, defense, loyalty, tribalism.....

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
111. The entertainment factor is one good side-effect.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:38 PM
Mar 2014

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
113. lol!
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:42 PM
Mar 2014

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
138. Well said, Blanche. nt
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:46 PM
Mar 2014

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
142. thanks Hekate..
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:53 PM
Mar 2014

llmart

(15,499 posts)
190. Right on, Blanche!
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 07:25 PM
Mar 2014

Thank you for so eloquently saying what I've been thinking. This website has become a disappointment in many ways just because some people want to use it to stroke their egos. It's truly sad and yes, sophomoric and childish and serves no purpose in getting Democrats elected.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
168. Plus a million. I saw a snotty little comment yesterday deriding someone that didn't have a star
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 05:30 PM
Mar 2014

next to their name.

I'd rather flush a $20 than give money to web sites or any group that allows and even seems to encourage through the jury system the type of behavior that you mentioned.

Cirque du So-What

(25,812 posts)
177. I caught that too
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:24 PM
Mar 2014

At one time, DU was a go-to place for actual research, and I was a proud contributor. Nowadays, I'd be really pissed if I were to consider that I was actually paying to support some of the pure-D shit I've seen.

Number23

(24,544 posts)
192. Exactly. I've had plenty of stars by my name in the past. Not any more.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 07:35 PM
Mar 2014

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
194. I saw that too
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 08:19 PM
Mar 2014

I alerted on it, in fact. It came back 0-6 to leave.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
28. So how would we handle it if the "conservative opinion" happens to also be the Administrations
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:30 PM
Mar 2014

policy? Could you be "tombstoned" for supporting some specific position of a DEMOCRATIC President on the DU because it's in line with conservative thinking?

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,846 posts)
45. This is the conundrum.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:39 PM
Mar 2014

And I think the reason for so much of the infighting. Obama himself said "Nixon was more liberal" on some issues. There is no doubt that Obama has some center-right ideas and policies, the question is, do we support those automatically because we support the president (and yes, I still support Obama) or is there room for criticism? Obama also asked us to hold his feet to the fire.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
30. Let's start with the resident Libertarians, because the mission of this board is partisan for Dems..
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:31 PM
Mar 2014
Vote for Democrats.

Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.


I realize there's a 3rd party presence here, with some serious libertarian overtones, but unless the TOS changes, the mission of this board is & has always been to "Elect Democrats". When Skinner changes his TOS to "kentuck approved Democrats", we're all in trouble.

Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).

Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.
 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
51. The definition of libertarian has been deformed by the BOG
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:41 PM
Mar 2014

Along with racist, it is a catch all insult for anyone who disagrees with, say, TPP. See my Sig for more.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
58. Hit a nerve?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:46 PM
Mar 2014



Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
82. LOL, now there's the humor!
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:08 PM
Mar 2014
 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
94. more like missed a target
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:19 PM
Mar 2014

I have noticed that the dinos, like Fox "news" addicts, throw out a lot of buzz words and dog whistles which have nothing to do with facts, but do get a lot of morons to nod their heads and chuckle.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,207 posts)
112. You mean "morons" like these?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:40 PM
Mar 2014




 

Hip_Flask

(233 posts)
32. A realist knows that you don't get very far without compromise somewhere...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:31 PM
Mar 2014

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
225. And a poker player knows that if you have a "full house",
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 05:42 AM
Mar 2014

you don't just toss in your cards thinking that you can't win.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
35. It's hardly surprising to me
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:34 PM
Mar 2014

that those most hostile to the voices and concerns of subaltern groups also express the greatest opposition to the president and the Democratic Party. Radical conservatism is a good name for it. Self-absorbed nihilism is another. But yeah, I see posts as destructive in that they suppress the Democratic vote. Anything that paves the way for Republican electoral victory is bad news.

el_bryanto

(11,804 posts)
40. That's a good point. I don't know if it's an across the board condition.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:36 PM
Mar 2014

But yes there are real world implications to losing the Senate or losing the White House.

Bryant

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
67. "Self-absorbed nihilism" comes about as close as I've seen to capturing it.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:51 PM
Mar 2014

Along with Orwell's negative nationalism.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
120. I think for some ...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:06 PM
Mar 2014

... they've decided that the system is so broken, a total collapse is what's needed for their version of Utopia to come into existence.

So rather than fight the GOP, they attack other Dems, those they deem unholy.

They don't really mind if the GOP wins and destroys things because that just accelerates the move towards their Utopia.

Of course, they ignore the fact that there is a part of the right who thinks that THEIR version of Utopia, a Christian Fascist version, rises from the same ashes after the collapse.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
131. That is misguided
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:23 PM
Mar 2014

because whatever emerges from such a collapse will inevitably be more authoritarian. Historical precedent demonstrates as much.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
152. I tend to agree with your assessment ...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:11 PM
Mar 2014

... of the actual outcome from a total collapse, but I do see that basic perspective on DU regularly.

There's nothing we can do. TPTB control everything. Democrats are the same as Republicans. The collapse is coming.

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
145. Reminds me of Christians who long for the Rapture-- only total destruction will bring Jesus, or...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:56 PM
Mar 2014

...in DU's case, a single-payer etc paradise.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
36. Which opinion now prominent on DU concerns you the most? (nt)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:35 PM
Mar 2014
 

NoOneMan

(4,795 posts)
37. Are you suggesting that Skinner get rid of the BOG or something?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:35 PM
Mar 2014

Just because people are conservative and are attacking progressives doesn't mean they should be banished in my opinion. They probably just need to be informed and educated

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
52. You can't educate people in internet discussion
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:42 PM
Mar 2014

Anonymity prevents that. Everyone online is a hardliner on whatever issue they're talking about

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
39. I think it is unfair to describe any DU mod or admin action as a "fatwa"
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:36 PM
Mar 2014

Otherwise, no opinion at all.

Renew Deal

(81,801 posts)
41. The consequences of the jury system
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:36 PM
Mar 2014

DU is it's true self, and the problem isn't that DU isn't "progressive enough."

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
53. Framing fail....
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:43 PM
Mar 2014

Stopped reading after the first paragraph:

Is it time to re-evaluate Admin's decision to be more open to conservative and non-progressive opinions?


Why do folks try to do this? Utter bullshit.

one_voice

(20,043 posts)
59. This...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:47 PM
Mar 2014
Has DU somehow forgoten that it is radical conservatism that is the enemy of us all?


Radical conservatism on DU?

I had to read that twice thinking I missed a word....

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
70. Like I said....
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:52 PM
Mar 2014

I didn't read any further.

Starting with the disingenuous premise, I knew it wasn't going to get any better.

TBF

(31,921 posts)
54. I find the fan club aspect
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:44 PM
Mar 2014

Troubling. Having said that I could make a list of obvious Obama supporters who I really like. They may be a bit more conservative than I'd like. But I don't mind hearing their opinions. When push comes to shove we're all going to vote for Democrats so why exclude? I know I wouldn't feel very happy if they wanted to exclude me for being too left.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
55. I'd like to see the SOP of GD enforced. That would help a lot.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:44 PM
Mar 2014

nt

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
63. And the TOS while we are at it.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:50 PM
Mar 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

In particular:

Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).
Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.

Vote for Democrats.
Winning elections is important — therefore, advocating in favor of Republican nominees or in favor of third-party spoiler candidates that could split the vote and throw an election to our conservative opponents is never permitted on Democratic Underground. But that does not mean that DU members are required to always be completely supportive of Democrats. During the ups-and-downs of politics and policy-making, it is perfectly normal to have mixed feelings about the Democratic officials we worked hard to help elect. When we are not in the heat of election season, members are permitted to post strong criticism or disappointment with our Democratic elected officials, or to express ambivalence about voting for them. In Democratic primaries, members may support whomever they choose. But when general election season begins, DU members must support Democratic nominees (EXCEPT in rare cases where were a non-Democrat is most likely to defeat the conservative alternative, or where there is no possibility of splitting the liberal vote and inadvertently throwing the election to the conservative alternative). For presidential contests, election season begins when both major-party nominees become clear. For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.

No bigoted hate speech.
Do not post bigotry based on someone's race or ethnic origin, gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion or lack thereof, disability, or other comparable personal characteristic. To be clear: This includes any post which states opposition to full equal rights for gays and lesbians; it also includes any post asserting disloyalty by Jewish Americans, claiming nefarious influence by Jews/Zionists/Israel, advocating the destruction of the state of Israel, or arguing that Holocaust deniers are just misunderstood. In determining what constitutes bigotry, please be aware that we cannot know what is in anyone's heart, and we will give members the benefit of the doubt, when — and only when — such doubt exists.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
65. Become a GD host, then.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:50 PM
Mar 2014

If you do, you can argue SOP issues with people who are making those decisions. There's always a discussion ongoing about it among the hosts of GD. You can be part of that discussion.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
172. No thanks, I don't like what I see of the backstage culture here. I'd like to see those who
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:13 PM
Mar 2014

claim to have an interest in the job, which is enforcing the SOP, do that job. That way I could pat them on the back and say job well done.

Ohio Joe

(21,655 posts)
60. There was an Admin decision to be more open to conservative and non-progressive opinions?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:48 PM
Mar 2014

I never saw that... When did that happen?

fizzgig

(24,146 posts)
146. they have stated anti-choice opinions are welcome
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:56 PM
Mar 2014

as long as they're "respectful" about it. there is nothing respectful about being anti-choice.

Ohio Joe

(21,655 posts)
171. I knew we had anti-choice assholes here...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:00 PM
Mar 2014

And I assumed the Admins knew about them... I've seen their bullshit get the response it deserves and figured there must have been alerts, so they had to be aware... I did not know they had actually said anything about it. That is disturbing.

fizzgig

(24,146 posts)
178. i cannot belive they tolerate it
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:24 PM
Mar 2014

there is one poster who has proclaimed abortion is murder on more than one occasion and is allowed to remain here and spout that bullshit.

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
61. We're going to need some duct tape. /nt
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:49 PM
Mar 2014

TBF

(31,921 posts)
117. ...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:54 PM
Mar 2014

Douglas Carpenter

(20,226 posts)
62. no, I think it's time to shift the discussion to something like alternative medicine, E-cigarettes,
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:49 PM
Mar 2014

porn, circumcision or at what age children must no longer sleep with their parents -- Then we can put the current ugly arguments aside for awhile

donco

(1,548 posts)
71. In other words
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 01:55 PM
Mar 2014

what I click on and I read offends MY EYES, admin should THEREFORE sweep the vermin out.GOT IT.

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
75. Half of DU would be wiped out.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:03 PM
Mar 2014
 

seveneyes

(4,631 posts)
76. I think if most everyone just smoked a "fat one", it might lighten up n/t
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:03 PM
Mar 2014

Puzzledtraveller

(5,937 posts)
79. With a couple chasers too.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:04 PM
Mar 2014

flying rabbit

(4,612 posts)
100. Maybe part of the problem is too many chasers.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:27 PM
Mar 2014
 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
116. OOh! Can I declare a fat one too?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:52 PM
Mar 2014

A fat one?



I declare!

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
212. Right?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:28 PM
Mar 2014

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
77. The only purge that will happen, in that case,
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:04 PM
Mar 2014

is whatever remains of left-leaning opinions.

Fearless

(18,421 posts)
83. Sounds like a very conservative thing to do actually.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:08 PM
Mar 2014

So no.

Maraya1969

(22,441 posts)
87. I used to be comfortable here knowing that the repukes were not here and if
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:15 PM
Mar 2014

we found one they lived a short life.

Now I am bombarded by them every time I come to this site.

There is an election coming up in 2014. All these anti-progressive post only hurt us.

 

WilliamPitt

(58,179 posts)
88. I am deeply hopeful this is satire.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:15 PM
Mar 2014

"A fatwā (Arabic: فتوى?; plural fatāwā Arabic: in the Islamic faith is the term for the legal opinion or learned interpretation that a qualified jurist or mufti can give on issues pertaining to the Islamic law."

In other words, a religious determination of guilt and condemnation.

What fucking website am I on?

And against whom would you direct this religious condemnation?

Who are you, and what have you done with my old beloved friend kentuck?

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
123. Sorry, I meant to put in quotations..
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:14 PM
Mar 2014

Hoping to stimulate a discussion about what we stand for or should stand for as we approach the upcoming election. No, I do not expect a fatwa from Skinner but I would like to increase the awareness about why we are here on DU?

Is it a place for serious discussion or is it a place to see who csn come up with the most humorous unserious response? Do we want to see the Democrats win the next election and is it possible if we continue to criticize the leaders of our Party? Or has the Party crossed the Rubicon?

I think there is deep concern that the Republicans will take over the Senate and maybe the WH in 2016 and that is underlying a lot of the oresent dissension on DU.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
90. Conservative trolls get banned...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:17 PM
Mar 2014

Left-wing fringe trolls go on and on.

Sid

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
196. Conservative Canadian trolls seldom get banned
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:17 PM
Mar 2014

Even ones that have little to add save insults and enemas.

Or at least that has been my observation.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
197. Conservative trolls get banned, regardless of their nationality...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:21 PM
Mar 2014

Left wing trolls, regardless of their nationality, disrupt and sow FUD with impunity.

Sid

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
210. If they are banned why is it I read their posts HERE?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:16 PM
Mar 2014

Don't seem smart enough to hack in, my conclusion is: that they are here is self evident if not self identified.

What is a left wing troll anyway? Is that like a Red scare thing? You see son, the left in this country are called Democrats and by definition are not trolls on their own Democratic boards.

What party do you belong to? Is it anti-US-left only, or does your party oppose the left parties in Canada as well?

A leftist is only a troll when viewed by a righty conservative, the mask is very thin on most clowns and slips at times like these.


SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
211. MIRT and admins ban conservative trolls everyday...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:18 PM
Mar 2014

but fringe left-wing trolls post on and on and on.

Sid

U4ikLefty

(4,012 posts)
227. What about the moderate trolls?
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 05:45 AM
Mar 2014

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,786 posts)
237. There is much more to trolling than left-right political spectrum position.
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 09:12 AM
Mar 2014

You seem to have a very narrow understanding of what it means to troll.

Just because "left = good, right = bad" around here does not mean that lefties can do no wrong.

There is a well-respected lefty-progressive writer on here who made a spectacular statement that was as effective as any troll statement (though it was not intended or posted as a troll) when he called Obama a "used car salesman" (I don't know if "piece of shit" was part of it or not).

Some people troll on purpose by making such provocative statements. Other topics include women's issues (swimsuit issue example), guns, banks, capitalism vs socialism vs communism vs anarchy, etc.


A leftist is only a troll when viewed by a righty conservative

Nope. Widen your horizon.
 

Corruption Inc

(1,568 posts)
92. No, but it'd be nice to see a crackdown on pure propaganda
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:19 PM
Mar 2014

It diminishes everything with it's lack of credibility, associated bullying and trolling. It's so easy to spot too, repetitive sloganeering that appeals to emotional responses instead of rational thinking.

People can disagree about a million different things but allowing propagandists to outright call another DUer a racist and then have that post stand while the jurors insult the victim of the bullying is extremely discrediting to this site.

You can bet that most people are too annoyed to even bring that up too and will be avoiding this site because of it.

 

fascisthunter

(29,381 posts)
93. Nah... I just think Folks Should Cool it a Little
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:19 PM
Mar 2014

There is a division on DU, that's definite.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
95. Good timing. Brown shirts are on sale at Penneys. n/t
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:20 PM
Mar 2014

geckosfeet

(9,644 posts)
98. Usually I only trash gun threads in gd
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:24 PM
Mar 2014

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
99. I have racked up over 60 jury appearances since Oct.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:26 PM
Mar 2014

On more than a few occasions, two in one day. And I believe I remember once being on three in one day. I'm just sayin'.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
103. I notice that the threads that we agree on sink like stones.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:29 PM
Mar 2014

Sometimes they make it to the greatest page before they sink. But they sink.

Skinner has provided us with remarkable tools to tailor our own DU experience. For example, I have used the trash thread feature liberally in the last day or so.

I find that my agreement factor with a given DUer will vary from topic to topic. However, if you find your blood pressure rising while reading the opinion of some, use ignore rather that trying to dictate to Skinner how to run his site, for all the good that will do. (None, I would guess.)

We have very few right-wingers around here, and when the occasional civil war breaks out, I find myself agreeing with points from both factions. If it's your wish to stifle the discussion, this probably isn't the place for you.

SunsetDreams

(8,571 posts)
121. ~~~~~~~~~^THIS nt~~~~~~~~~~
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:07 PM
Mar 2014

Javaman

(62,439 posts)
104. Is this how the zombie apocalypse starts? nt
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:30 PM
Mar 2014

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
105. I long for these days:
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:31 PM
Mar 2014

KARL ROVE HAS BEEN INDICTED.

We were so united and full of hope, even in the face of bogus stories.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
201. Give it 24 business hours. nt
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:31 PM
Mar 2014

hack89

(39,171 posts)
106. No nt
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:32 PM
Mar 2014

tridim

(45,358 posts)
108. Bringing back Unrec would eliminate the problem IMO.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:34 PM
Mar 2014

It's a free-for-all right now, anyone can post almost anything and not only get away with it, but garner lots of "support". It's an endless feedback-loop of stinky bullshit.

The lack of "unrec" guarantees that long time Democratic DU'ers have no power at all when it comes to maintaining quality content on DU. Without it the crap rises straight to the top.

laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)
213. I agree, I think that would help.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:40 PM
Mar 2014

If only because it would allow people to see what the general consensus is on any particular subject. I see a lot of threads with a shit ton of responses and it looks like it's a popular view on DU - until you click on the link and see it's all the same 6 people high fiving each other and carrying on. If one of those threads had 30 recs and 250 unrecs, we could see just what a farce that particular thread was. There is a good portion of DUers that don't dare enter into those threads for fear of being 'attacked' relentlessly. That might change with a view of recs v unrecs.

justabob

(3,069 posts)
218. unrec was a good thing nt
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:20 PM
Mar 2014

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
110. Purge!! Purge!!!
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:35 PM
Mar 2014

Burn the witches!!!!

I think in all honestly what it may be time for is this place to shut the fuck down. Before it becomes the mutual ass-kissing circle jerk echo chamber some folks would rather have.

 

Kelvin Mace

(17,469 posts)
115. Much as I would like to agree
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 02:46 PM
Mar 2014

especially given the number of people who think Obama is an actual "liberal" as opposed to a Center-Right Republican (Rockerfeller/Eisenhower version), it gets tricky when you draw a line and say anyone of this side is "out of here."

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)
122. Yikes! Sensor other's "opinions"?!?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:12 PM
Mar 2014

Ya, there is lots of wacky...but when the Inquisition Board starts to say yay or nay on "opinions", well......

yikes.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
124. A fatwa? Is that something you put on pizza?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:14 PM
Mar 2014

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
220. Fatwa was what we called my cousin, Fat Wally when I was a kid. The term must
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:46 PM
Mar 2014

have slipped out of the family somehow. Some of my kin are going to get water boarded until they confess to something they knew nothing about. Maybe that will satisfy the OP.

Hekate

(90,189 posts)
127. Fat Chance. Nt
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:21 PM
Mar 2014

BlueJac

(7,838 posts)
128. Times do change.....
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:21 PM
Mar 2014

and the Democrats have moved steadily to right. I guess they are leaving lots of good progressive minded people behind. I know I am one of them along with many of you here. I used to wonder where my country went but I have found out over the last few years, and it is to the right, right, right. Not a place I really want to be.

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
135. Yes, they do.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:35 PM
Mar 2014

I think a lot of progressives are torn over the direction the Party is going. At the same time, they have nowhere else to go. The "left" is dead. And they died just at the moment they were needed. They surrendered their few remaining principles for political expediency. The corporations are gathering their spoils,

BlueJac

(7,838 posts)
150. Yes, so true
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:05 PM
Mar 2014

big money moves politicians, I have always wondered what moves the people. From what I have seen here, is people following blindly just because they voted for them, and believed in their message.

I must be old school, because I believe in liberal principles and will turn my back on anyone that lets me down politically. I want them to hold the line and not let it slip, always to the right. I am done with that. The younger people are waking up but they must get involved in voting and not get discouraged. The Democratic party has catered to big money and that has been their down fall, their message is weak if even audible! Obama was always a corporatist and a free market guy, nothing should be to surprising. ACA is just a pay back to big business for acting like they are playing ball with health care. It is still insurance not health care, just a middleman that collects his unneeded share. Although better than what we had before. But not a victory.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
206. There was a very recent post by a self-described NC Dem
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:56 PM
Mar 2014

who claims to contribute $100K/year to the party in NC. He actually said, in his posts, that the party would like to get rid of all liberals, period.

I can't find it or I'd post the link.

So that's pretty much where we are, including the president and the entire Fan Club. They have decided that the party should be far to the right of Ronald Reagan, and will only keep liberals around to blame for the inevitable trouncing at the polls

riqster

(13,986 posts)
129. If Skinner wants a fatwa, he'll create one.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:22 PM
Mar 2014

His site, his rules, his call.

get the red out

(13,459 posts)
134. I agree
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:32 PM
Mar 2014

Yes, just my opinion.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
141. Some of the really obviously conservative right-wingers should be banned.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 03:53 PM
Mar 2014

They come here to disrupt, and you can see from the responses to this post who a few of them are.

There are very few forums for progressives and for liberal Democrats.

This was at one time a safe haven for us.

I agree that those who consistently espouse very conservative views should be encouraged to leave the site. I don't know how you do it without making very subjective judgments that could be wrong.

I believe in freedom of speech, but atheists are not generally invited to give the sermons in traditional Christian churches -- for a reason. And anti-gun people are not usually invited to give speeches at the NRA.

This is a forum for forward-thinking, liberal Democrats. The conservatives have their own forums in which they can develop their ideas (assuming they have ideas). This is for us and should be maintained as a safe place for us.

Thanks for posting this. Very hard to implement, but really important to think about.

We can start with eliminating some of the jokers with less than 5,000 posts who immediately responded to this post with nonsense posts. That is the technique that disrupters are using on DU now. If they don't like an OP, they start responding one after the other with silly, off-the-topic posts that make intelligent discussion impossible.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
158. "Nonsense posts?" Sometimes, the only way to respond to a GD barroom brawl is with humour!
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:24 PM
Mar 2014

And, by the way, I've been around DU since the early days.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,149 posts)
186. If you think a post is nonsense, then put the person who posted it on 'ignore'
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 07:06 PM
Mar 2014

That should stop any effect of disruption that you see. You'll not see what they say again, or any sub-thread that goes where they want it to. You'll only see the posts from sensible people.

But I'd suggest that an OP basically calling for a purge should expect some 'nonsense' in return.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
147. We've had to put up with a lot of RW crap
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:00 PM
Mar 2014

RW views on guns and on women's issues and race because the party is supposedly a big tent and Democrats hold different views on those issues. Now we find out a lot of those people aren't Democrats and don't plan to vote for Democrats. So why do we have to keep putting up with them?

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
185. So who are these non-Democrats you keep posting about in this thread?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:53 PM
Mar 2014

Forgive me if I think you are just repeating that to try to tarnish those you disagree with on certain issues.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
187. people who openly say
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 07:12 PM
Mar 2014

They will not be voting for Democrats. You can read the threads yourself to see who they are.

NutmegYankee

(16,177 posts)
188. I haven't come across any.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 07:13 PM
Mar 2014

Care you provide some examples?

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
193. look in the thread
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 08:17 PM
Mar 2014

WIth the poll on the Democratic Party.

 

AzDar

(14,023 posts)
149. I prefer a good old Stalin-esque purge, mahself...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:05 PM
Mar 2014

underpants

(182,271 posts)
157. You misspelled "forgotTen"
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:23 PM
Mar 2014

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
165. Thanks!
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:43 PM
Mar 2014


I doubt that the post accomplished anything, anyway.

underpants

(182,271 posts)
170. But it was a good try
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 05:51 PM
Mar 2014

I particularly liked your flicking-matches approach as opposed to the more traditional fuse method for getting the flame to the gasoline.



It was a good post. I agree.

Gman

(24,780 posts)
161. Like you, I've been here from the beginning
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 04:28 PM
Mar 2014

(March 01) to be exact. As you know, the D in DU stands for Democratic (Party). All here were Democrats because we had nothing else at the time.

And as you know, I'm not a progressive, never will be. I've been called a corporatist (and your point is...?). and other things much worse. Like a great many here I don't always agree with progressive positions. I used to occasionally get PM's from people who agree with what I've said that's not popular with progressives but they don't want to put up with the pissyness and shittyness they'll get with their comment. You and I have talked and agree to disagree and I respect you for that. But calling DU a progressive site is wrong. It's not now nor was it in the beginning and shouldn't be now. DU has always been open to any Democrat.

But ban the RW trolls with their RW talking points presented as just another Dem opinion. OTOH. I don't much care for what is said in the RKBA forum, but I've got friends that own guns and they're good Democrats. I own a few shotguns, but no handguns. To each his own

I also have the women's forums trashed because I just don't want to hear it no matter how well intentioned they are. But to each his own.

So no, Skinner does not to call a fatwa. Just patrol the place BAU and we'll all be fine, as usual.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
229. You've been called a corporatist?
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 06:11 AM
Mar 2014

Wow, I only got called a "neo-con" and that only once. At least I know what a neo-con is, where I still don't know what a corporatist is.

But I think that Democrats who toss terms like that at other Democrats have to be consumed by anger and are letting that power their posts rather than reason. I have never yet used the ignore button, but that's because I don't need a button to ignore anyone who posts that I am a neo-con. I have to imagine that people like that spend their weekends alone in a dark room in front a screen, and by choice.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
167. I'm amused at everyone's confidence that they wouldn't be on the receiving end of the purge club.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 05:24 PM
Mar 2014

Particularly among those who can't even summon enough interest to scratch together $10 for a star.

 

KapUSMC

(2 posts)
169. My first post (and probably only)
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 05:31 PM
Mar 2014

I have been visiting this site for a couple of years now, along with some Republican ones as well. I did actually read the terms of service, which is partly why I haven't posted previously. I'm a registered independent, and most of my views fall in line with Libertarian. I read sites from both side of the aisle, predominantly to see which "base" I tend to agree with more. Here are my personal observations, even though they will probably get me flamed:

You don't have a "right wing" problem here.... 95% of the infighting I see is between far left and left of the spectrum, and not between left and right. Routinely President Obama is referred on there as being a center-right Republican. He may have some moderate leanings, but he is definitely not on that side of the aisle.

There is very little tolerance for difference of opinion from party lines... Look at second amendment topics, it is pretty routine to attack another liberal just because their views on a single issue may differ from the party line, even if the one supporting is doing so solely based on a personal interpretation of the constitution. If the true goal is top secure more votes for the democratic party, it would probably be beneficial to at least listen to logically constructed arguments.

The upside is there is probably less name calling and infighting here as on GOP boards, but not by much. As someone who considers myself an independent this is the real problem I have. If the main base from each of the parties can rarely agree or concede with the other side, I have little hope that will come to as far center as I am.

And lastly, if the ultimate goal is to win elections, you should be trying to attract more people from the center. I haven't posted previously mainly because I felt if I didn't tow the party line I would be attacked. IMO that isn't fostering an environment to attract the centrist with the ultimate goal of winning elections.

 

AverageJoe90

(10,745 posts)
176. Welcome to DU, friend.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:20 PM
Mar 2014

I'm personally left-of-center and describe myself as progressive but we kinda do need a "big tent" these days if we want to win elections.....and that may even include taking in a few moderates who lean right-of-center as well as left.

Thankfully, though, we're not quite as divided as we may seem at times, though. I do hope you'll be able to come around to our side of the pool one of these days.

The Magistrate

(95,237 posts)
180. I Have Seen Worse Analysis Of The Place, Sir
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:35 PM
Mar 2014

Welcome, and good luck.

OKNancy

(41,832 posts)
189. some here don't care about winning elections, they just want to rant and rave
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 07:24 PM
Mar 2014

and puff out their chest.
The owner of the site is a mainstream Democrat and started the site to get more Democrats elected.
Things have drifted....

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
207. Hoo Boy, I'll say.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:02 PM
Mar 2014

Like they say, you can't score any runs without players on base.

RW majorities in Congress control the agenda. All of it. Period.

We would do well to keep that in mind.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
208. Why should we? We won huge in 2008 and got nothing but Republican policies for it
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:04 PM
Mar 2014

Why, for instance, would someone whose job was lost to NAFTA, care if the current Dem party wins, when they boast openly about wanting to pass TPP? Why would an environmentalist work to elect a party that supports KXL, more drilling, and fracking? If you support the party adopting Republican stances on drones, defense budgets, for-profit health insurance, torture, trade, and the environment, then you can't expect all of the old voters to get on board.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
214. The party has also "drifted."
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 10:55 PM
Mar 2014

kentuck

(110,950 posts)
191. If the ultimate goal is to win elections?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 07:34 PM
Mar 2014

"you should be trying to attract more people from the center."

We have become obsessed with winning elections, I would agree. However, I am no longer sure that elections bring about the results that we want?

Also, should we assume that to attract people from the "center", we should become more like those on the right??

 

KapUSMC

(2 posts)
205. Re: If the ultimate goal is to win elections?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:49 PM
Mar 2014

The "if the ultimate goal is to win elections" came from the terms of service. And yes, personally I would be happy if the Democrats came further right... Or if Republicans came further left. When I lived in California I voted almost exclusively Republican and now that I live in Oklahoma locally I lean more toward the Democrats. The dirty secret there isn't a wide margin between a Republican in California and a Democrat in Oklahoma. They tend to be for more centrist than the rest of their party. Due to the two party system, and the current state of affairs, the two sides are moving further apart and willing to work together increasing less. So these days it is an all or none proposition. I have serious problems with the Republican party. I can't support a candidate that doesn't support equal rights, to include gay marriage, adoption, etc.. I also have a problem with someone that isn't pro-choice. I'm a Christian, and maybe I just messed up on interpretation but it isn't my place to enforce my morals on someone else. If someone wants to have an abortion, that is between them and their relationship with god. My view or opinion should have nothing to do with it. They should have their own religious freedom to do as they please. I despise the tea party tactics of "I'm taking my ball and going home". It is borderline criminal that they have routinely held the country hostage if they don't get their way playing chicken with the American economy. The minimum wage is hasn't kept pace with inflation... It needs to be addressed. The vast majority of republicans seem unconcerned with addressing socioeconomic inequality. It needs to be addressed. Dependence on fossil fuels and alternative energy need to be looked at more seriously, and many ignore it. But I have just as many problems with the Democratic party. I mentioned earlier I'm a Christian. I believe in god. That in itself causes many democrats (not necessarily elected politicians but for damn sure constituents) to address with outright contempt. I feel quite a few attack anything related to Christians (while they have no problem with support for Hindu, Muslim, Buddhists, anything NOT Christian). I mentioned the I am for a raise in the minimum wage, but those calling for $12 and $15 an hour are unrealistic. Should a high school kid bagging groceries make $15 an hour? And it is completely disingenuous the way it is continually said that a raise to an amount like that will have no impact on inflation, or the number of jobs, etc.. In 2011 the 83 welfare programs were responsible for a little over a trillion dollars. And that seems reasonable and doesn't need reform? Really? I also mentioned the environment earlier, but many of the restriction placed on American companies put it at a competitive disadvantage. More needs to be imposed at the G8 level / international treaty level. Democrats want to handcuff the US to save the planet, while China puts out about 25 times the pollution. I may disagree with the Tea Party tactics, but spending is ABSOLUTELY out of control. The medical industry as a whole needs reform, but the ACA is pretty terrible, and not going to go well. Anyway, I could continue but you get the point....

But now it is at the point where neither side is willing to comprise or work together on anything, and each base is pushing further from the middle. Its at the point now where if a Republican says the sky is blue Democrats wouldn't agree and vice versa. I have yet to meet a single person from either side that supports the NSA data collection but nothing will get done about it because nothing can be agreed upon. So to answer your question, yes... I want Democrats to come to the right. But I also want Republicans to come to the left. I can't stand O'Reilly, but you know what? I can't stand Bill Maher either. Nobody wants to have an actual debate or compromise. They just call the other side names, or automatically support or decry someone because of the R or D next to their name.

Anyway, sorry for the new guy rant...

Hippo_Tron

(25,453 posts)
216. Respectfully, what issues would you like to see us compromise with the right on?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:06 PM
Mar 2014

The Affordable Care Act is essentially the Richard Nixon/Heritage Foundation health care plan. In any sane universe, passing that rather than single payer is a compromise. Yet the right thinks it's socialism.

The current Tea-Party Republicans want to dismantle the Great Society and the New Deal. How does one compromise on that front without sending millions of people into poverty?

DFW

(54,050 posts)
232. Elections these days NEVER bring about results "that we want."
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 06:36 AM
Mar 2014

There is so much money blasting us from the right that we are lucky if elections prevent the extremist right from taking over completely. We can only hope to elect enough Democrats that we have a chance of holding and tipping the Supreme Court to the point where Citizens United can be overturned, and we can BEGIN to correct the course of our national history.

Karl Rove is evil, but he had vision. I am fully convinced that he foresaw the 2008 results years in advance, probably as early as 2004, which is why he selected Roberts and Alito as Bush's nominees to the SCOTUS. I also believe that the coming Citizens United suit and decision was discussed with both Roberts and Alito before their names were even placed in nomination to the court. Rove knew that Cheneybush had fucked up, and badly. He knew that in fairly held elections, his party was going the way of the Dodo bird. He needed to do something. His long-term strategy worked.

Every election since 2010, when we figured out what had really happened to us, has been damage control on our side, and until that damage is not only controlled, but repaired, the best result we can hope for in elections to Congress is a damage control mode, instead of an activist mode.

Samantha

(9,314 posts)
199. Welcome to DU and I would like to share my opinion with you
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:26 PM
Mar 2014

I was a Republican into the 90s but left right before the 2000 election. I have never been a conservative. The Republicans advertised themselves as having minimal goals when I first joined: the government should do basically three things -- protect the borders, collect taxes and I cannot remember the third! But its overall statement of policy was there should be as little involvement in the citizens' personal lives because that was not the role of government. Key the Clinton impeachment.

During that time I became so ashamed of how Republicans conducted themselves, I could no longer allow my name to be associated with the party. So I joined the Dems and learned I should have always been a Democrat. I was really tuned into Election 2000 to the point I spent about 2 to 3 hours each day studying every detail of Gore's progress. When everything turned criminal and George W. Bush* was annointed by the Supreme Court, I was outraged. And then I found DU.

I arrived here attacking the Democrats and their failure to take a stance on the legal issues involved. I faulted them almost as much as the Republicans for their failure to take a stance.

Attacks? I cannot tell you how much I was attacked by railing against the Democrats, especially the Democratic Leadership Conference, known as the DLC. But I was just so upset I just kept making my points and hardened my backbone. Eventually, many people here then started agreeing with me.

On a personal level, it was one of the best things I have ever done for myself. I am not a fighter by nature, but I can handle just about anything now. Nothing and no one political intimidates me.

So here I am 14 years later still here, and nothing would make me leave.

There are many, many very intelligent people who belong to this site. It is not easy for newcomers to pick up on that because many of them no longer post here. I believe they have just grown so tired of the asinine shennigans they no longer bother.

But DU did not come easy during those early days. Not for the people who started it and not for the people who railed against the outcome of Election 2000. There is no other site I know of with a history like DU's. And certainly no site with as many intelligent, educated, sophisticated people as this one. You will see that during critical moments in politics and government, but in between those moments, you will see vanity posts, trolls abounding, people acting as if -- you fill in the rest.

I hope you stay around and post. You sound like someone we need. After awhile, you will build a coterie of DU friends, and they will show up when you most need them.

Sam

justabob

(3,069 posts)
219. why do the votes have to come from the center?
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 11:33 PM
Mar 2014

Everyone talks like there is some X number of voters that we are fighting over in the center, when there are millions of people to attract from outside who are not currently participating. Not all of those people are lazy, stupid, get-what-they-deserve-for-not-voting-people. They are folks who get shit on no matter who is in power, and often those sympathetic to the first group.... quit fucking around with the "center" and engage more folks.

MellowDem

(5,018 posts)
234. Obama is ideologically right of center...
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 08:02 AM
Mar 2014

As is the Democratic Party as a whole, based on worldwide ideological spectrums. Sure, he's a Democrat, but Democrats and the Democratic Party are not progressive overall.

Gallup has done polls for years on the self-identified ideological makeup of each party. Democrats come out now as 40 percent liberal, 40 percent moderate, and 20 percent conservative.

Republicans come out as 80 percent conservative, 14 percent moderate and 1 percent liberal.

The parties are not two sides of a coin. Conservatism rules in this country and has for decades, the Democratic and Republican Party have both shifted significantly right. I don't think these are disputed observations.

For progressives like me, the goal isn't winning elections for a moderately conservative right of center party that stinks less than the whacko right. The goal is to convince the US as a whole and the parties as well to shift to the left, to convince them progressive ideas work best. Given who has the money and power in politics, and the way the game is rigged, I don't expect electioneering to do it, only a fundamental shift in culture will.

I don't mind compromise in politics, I just mind having to compromise between moderate and extreme conservatism only, and often no compromise at all from extreme conservatives.

I find a libertarian identifying as a centrist independent as strange. Libertarianism is a very ideological extreme on the political spectrum. It's like saying you're a Marxist. It's a utopian ideology based on theories that have no empirical grounding. That doesn't sound very centrist to me as I understand the word. I'd rather libertarians own up to the very extreme beliefs of their ideology, and many do, than pretend to be centrist.

Ultimately, libertarianism serves conservatism as Marxism serves socialism. Social issues are used as wedge issues that come and go. Some conservatives are already switching gears on gay marriage to "states rights and small government". Economic views are where you get to the real meat of an ideology, and that's where libertarianism shows it's just a subset of conservative ideology.

TBF

(31,921 posts)
244. "if the ultimate goal is to win elections"
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 10:24 AM
Mar 2014

lol - we just elected Barack Obama TWICE. And we went plenty right to do it. Way more right than I would've advocated.

Skittles

(152,964 posts)
175. no
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:19 PM
Mar 2014

I know the difference between legitimate criticism and "non-progressive opinions"

179. i know very little about former DU policies since I am new here
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:29 PM
Mar 2014

However, there are only two political parties. Therefore, it should mean that there would be a wide range of opinion in both parties. I don't know what viewpoints would have been banned in the past. However, considering the fact that there are only 2 parties, I would think both parties would want to welcome as many people as possible.

etherealtruth

(22,165 posts)
182. DU feels more like a "general" political discussion board
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:39 PM
Mar 2014

.... with the absence of advocacy for Republican candidates. I have no idea whether (in the end) that is good or bad for DU (I do know how I feel about it).

Sexism, racism, homophobia is generally tolerated (with the exception of brand new posters) ... These are not progressive (liberal or Democratic ideals). I view this as a sea change .... admittedly, there has always been a little bit of elitism (I would guess that DUers are a little better educated, a little better employed and a little more culturally engaged than J.Q Public) .... but, there was not a tolerance for bigotry. As the admin of this site I wonder what the vision is for the site .... a place for ALL view points (including decidedly unprogessive sexist, racist and homophobic ideas) .... a place for liberal ideas, a place to solely support the Democratic party .... ? DU is defining itself .... and there still are bright spots (from a liberal point of view) .... but the blight has permeated DU.

I realize my post appears whiny .... or "meta", but I truly am looking for DU to redefine or better define itself.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
183. I had no idea Skinner was an Imam.
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 06:41 PM
Mar 2014

Response to kentuck (Original post)

 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
200. I'd gladly accept a fatty from Skinner...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:30 PM
Mar 2014

Deep13

(39,154 posts)
202. You think because there is a D in the White House...
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:35 PM
Mar 2014

...that conservatives are now the oppressed minority and that we should be more tolerant of them?

No, the whole power structure, including our slightly liberal POTUS are part of the capitalist, authoritarian power structure. Those who actively support that power structure remain the enemies of working people.

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)
203. Why not just put people on ignore
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:36 PM
Mar 2014

if they don't conform to your standards for thought and you don't like seeing their posts? Seems like a simple solution to me.

pinboy3niner

(53,339 posts)
204. Wouldn't that make it...a skinnywa? nt
Fri Mar 28, 2014, 09:37 PM
Mar 2014

Stand and Fight

(7,480 posts)
222. You got it.
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 03:30 AM
Mar 2014

This is one of the reasons I don't visit or post much anymore on this site. The integrity of the original structure of the site has been compromised by vapid conservatism.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
223. No. It's time for DUers to stop getting the vapors about the breadth of views in our party.
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 03:43 AM
Mar 2014

This is a broad and messy coalition we have, and the second that stops is the second we consign ourselves to being nationally irrelevant with only "stopping" power like the GOP has.

 

go west young man

(4,856 posts)
236. Some of us came here to fight against the neocons
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 09:06 AM
Mar 2014

the wars and stolen elections in the early 2000's...and we stayed. The place changed around us and is now much more centrist. That is where the confusion lies. We won a couple of elections and our guy got in. But the nefarious things we railed against still go on...Bill Moyers covered this well recently. The USA still needs a hard left turn into greener pastures. It needs a sea change and the real threat to world peace needs to be curtailed. Obama is obviously trying but he is up against a beast and sometimes he seems to simply cater to it. That threat is embedded in the neocon establishment, the think tanks, the MIC, and our own government. It's not DU that needs to be purged. It is the "Deep State" and we should all be working against it before it drags us into more unnecessary wars and sidelines all of "our" civil rights and right to privacy. Now matter how much that beast drapes itself in the flag, at it's core it is anti-American, for it does not represent what this country is supposed to stand for.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
243. Well said!
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 10:02 AM
Mar 2014

Censorship is self-defeating for any democratic enterprise. Conservative voices can and should be countered by reason and logic, and since they are always wrong for the American people, that is not hard to do.

To instead resort to blanket censorship of unpopular opinions only surrenders the high ground to those who are neither progressive or democratic. It would be nothing other than surrender of our core principles.

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
238. A call for eliminating opposing points of view is not progressive, or democratic.
Sat Mar 29, 2014, 09:24 AM
Mar 2014

This suggestion is chilling in both its intended effect and in its justification. Nothing could be a better example of "conservative and non-progressive opinions" than a call to silence all voices offering points of view the majority may not agree with.

If such an effort were to be actually undertaken, it might well become a narrow-minded exercise in self-destruction that would leave Democratic Underground a hollow shell. Do you really want the whole website to become nothing more than a bigger B.O.G.?

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