George Zimmerman was NOT a uniformed law enforcement officer

[Hugabear]

He was a self-appointed "neighborhood watch captain".

Which means that as far as Trayvon was concerned, Zimmerman was just some random guy running up to him with a gun, demanding to know why he was walking through the neighborhood.

It's not as if Zimmerman was in uniform, or flashed a badge or anything.

Trayvon's phone call to his girlfriend indicates that he was afraid.

Who wouldn't be, in that situation?

[FarPoint]

1. I read on DU yesterday

ESPN called him an Officer! The discussion came from the Miami Heat hoodie picture. The spin has grown!

[Baitball Blogger]

2. That's what I said in my last post.

If Trayvon thought his life was in danger, and saw a strange man following him with a gun, then his reaction was the appropriate one. The fact that he fought so fiercely would suggest he was frightened out of his mind.

[Hugabear]

3. No shit - Trayvon probably felt he was fighting for his life

And it turns out he was.

[arcane1]

4. And he did a damned good job defending himself, honestly

had it not been for the gun, the story would be "cop wannabe gets his ass kicked by teenager"

[C_U_L8R]

5. Captain in his owned mind

nothing worse than authoritarian nutjobs with loaded guns

[krispos42]

17. Except authoritian nutjobs in the White House

See: George W. Bush, Rick Santorum, Dick Cheney

[freshwest]

6. Anyone would resist a stranger in that situation. But not an LEO unless caught in a criminal act.

Trayvon's walking down the street is not a crime, any more than Zimmerman's being there was, if no actions had been taken. Zimmerman started this, plain and simple. And not answering questions from a stranger is not a crime, either.

[blm]

7. Zimmerman WAS a large adult approaching a skinny teen taught to fight back when stranger gets too

close to a kid for no reason. Kids are taught to scream, punch and kick at any adult that gets close enough to grab them.

They are taught this by their parents and by law enforcement professional who go their schools with safety lessons for the kids as they are prepared throughout their early years and lessons are re-inforced as teenagers.


THAT should be the end of the 'But he hit me' defense. Unless Zimmerman can prove that a skinny kid talking on the phone forced an armed adult out of his car, chased him down and assaulted him.

[arcane1]

8. "He's running"

"After he departs from his truck to pursue Martin, Zimmerman's breathing is audibly labored. The operator hears that, and asks, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman replies, "Yep." "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-smerconish/tale-of-the-trayvon-marti_b_1378581.html?ref=daily-brief?utm_source=DailyBrief&utm_campaign=032612&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BlogEntry&utm_term=Daily%20Brief







Trayvon was being CHASED DOWN by this idiot, so naturally he thought he was in danger. I cannot possibly see how this could be interpreted any other way.

[blm]

16. Trayvon did EXACTLY what law enforcement tells kids to do when adults come near them. Zimmerman did

EXACTLY what he was told NOT TO DO by law enforcement.

[Vattel]

12. If Zimmerman says that Martin went for his gun,

and no witnesses contradict that, then things get more complicated, legally speaking.

[krispos42]

14. I don't think so

Zimmerman the assailant drew the gun. Martin the victim had every right to defend himself. At this point Zimmerman is no different than a mugger or a rapist. If Martin had drawn a knife and stabbed Zimmerman at virtually any point during this conflict, or if he had wrested the gun away from Zimmerman and shot him, Martin would be 100% justified in what he did.

[Vattel]

30. I didn't know that Zimmerman drew his gun.

If he did so before he and Martin were fighting, then Zimmerman will have trouble claiming self-defense. I don't know all the facts here; so I am trying to be cautious in drawing conclusions

[krispos42]

31. That he drew is hard fact, not subject to dispute.

When he did is not clear. I'm inclined to think he didn't draw immediately, just because Martin probably wouldn't have fought back if he turned around and saw a pistol being pointed at him.

[blm]

18. The kid reached out for a gun drawn by an adult who had been pursuing him for some time?

Doesn't sound complicated to any FAIR observer. The kid was doing as he'd been told his entire young life by parents and law enforcement and the adult stranger Zimmerman was doing as he'd been told NOT to do by law enforcement that NIGHT.

[Vattel]

29. If Zimmerman drew his gun without any threat from Martin

and then Martin went for the gun, then I agree that Zimmerman is in trouble if he claims self-defense.

[noiretextatique]

9. freepers are out in force at HuffPo...been battling them all morning

there is some crazy shit posted over there. several are claiming that the media is purposely posting old pictures of Trayvon...to make him look more innocent. some are claiming he was a drug dealer. others are saying he should have been more polite to zimmerman. several claiming Trayvon was the aggressor.
and many blatantly racist posts.

[krispos42]

15. "He was askin' for it" defense?

Surprise surprise.

They have the same attitude towards women.

[noiretextatique]

23. yep...and he deserved it

there are some really twisted people out there.

[blm]

19. So THEIR kids are taught to yield to adult strangers coming at them?

Are the majority of kids taught throughout their childhood and teens to scream and fight when adults approach them close enough to grab them? Yes. They are taught that by responsible parents and law enforcement mentors who train the kids, usually in school settings.

That should be the end of the "But he hit me" defense from the adult.

[noiretextatique]

25. he was black...these thinly-veiled racists think black people should defer to white people

they think zimmerman was doing what he was supposed to be doing...profiling a "suspicious" person. they believe that a skinny kid "attacked" a big man who was profiling and stalking him. they believe this black kid's life did not matter.

[saras]

10. Not JUST as far as Trayvon was concerned. Zimmerman was a thug with a gun, no more and no less.

[slackmaster]

11. Where did you get the idea that Zimmerman was "running up to him with a gun," Hugabear?

That would not be the standard procedure taught in CCW classes, and it would probably be a crime (brandishing?) even in Florida.

[blm]

21. Where did you get the idea that the gun couldn't have been drawn?

And when SHOULDN'T a young person fight back an adult gets close enough to grab him?

Law enforcement has been teaching kids to scream, kick and punch at any adult stranger who gets near enough to grab them. Why should Trayvon have acted any other way than as he did?

Law enforcement specifically told Zimmerman THAT NIGHT to not pursue the kid. The kid was told his entire life by law enforcement to do exactly what he did that night.

[slackmaster]

24. I've never said the gun wasn't drawn. I just don't know, and neither do you

Law enforcement specifically told Zimmerman THAT NIGHT to not pursue the kid.

I think you are embellishing the published non-emergency call from Zimmerman. The person who took the call, who may or may not be an actual law enforcement person, told Zimmerman "We don't need for you to do that" IIRC. It was a suggestion, which Zimmerman (foolishly IMO) chose to disregard.

[blm]

26. I DO know that a kid was being pursued by an adult with a gun....

and the kid screamed, punched and kicked just as law enforcement told him to do his entire young life when pursued by an adult stranger and the adult stranger was doing exactly what he was told NOT TO DO by law enforcement THAT NIGHT.

"But he hit me" is allowed here then parents will have to retrain their kids to quietly accept any unwanted attention from a stranger because if they don't the adult stranger is allowed to kill them.


Ever try just THINKING it through?

[slackmaster]

27. I've thought about it a lot, and at this moment I really don't know what happened. Neither do you.

HTH

...the adult stranger was doing exactly what he was told NOT TO DO by law enforcement...

One more time, the person on the other end of the call that Zimmerman made had no authority to TELL Zimmerman what to do or what not to do even if she happens to be a sworn police officer. The person gave advice, good advice, and Zimmerman ignored it.

[uppityperson]

13. Exactly. Thank you.

[obxhead]

20. If he was a cop it would have been INVESTIGATED!

That's one of the many disgusting things about this murder. Had he been a cop his weapon would have been confiscated and he would have undergone a full investigation.

[TrollBuster9090]

22. "Self-appointed neighborhood watch captain" is way too dignified a term for this guy.

"Vigilante" is too dignified.

He was just a big, agressive bully with a gun and a perverted sense of self-importance who liked to drive around and intimidate people. As far as Trayvon Martin was concerned, there was a big, ugly, creepy guy following him around in a truck, and when he ran the guy got out and chased him. (It's fairly obvious from the 911 tape that Zimmerman got out of his truck and was in pursuit, after he said "he's running.&quot

Of COURSE Trayvon felt his life was in danger. One way or the other IT WAS.

Heck, does anybody remember the ATLANTA CHILD MURDERS? 28 African American kids/teens murdered by a guy who followed them around in a car. (Most likely NOT the guy who's in jail for it.)

This really has to be dealt with, or frankly it's open season on african american teens!
It was bad enough when it was POLICE who were shooting black teens for carrying "things" in their hands. Usually wallets, video cameras, chocolate bars, all of which apparently look like guns to scared cops. But as bad as that is, it's one thing. Random thug neighborhood vigilantes driving around with guns being allowed to do the same thing is something completely different.

[Johonny]

28. since he is dead we will never know his side of the story

I think most at DU speculate that was his thinking, but you really can never 100 % know for sure. If it gets to court the defense certainly has the advantage of a living witness to the events.