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Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:29 PM

The very last thing that Trayvon did before he was killed was cry and plead for his own life

Crying and pleading for HIS own life… Then his life was snuffed out by a 9mil round to his chest.

Hearing and seeing his pleas, Zimmerman still shot him, using an excuse that HE himself was the one who was in fear of his own life.

He was the ONLY one with a gun. No law should allow an unarmed person to be murdered without justice being served.

Zimmerman is a coward, that much is for sure. Cowardice demonstrated by way of his investment in a fear of young, black males.

If justice does prevail, little did he know that rainy night that, the greatest danger to himself from this young, black male named Trayvon would be the consequence from the taking of his life. May it prevail.

In a civilized society, that should have been the PRIMARY threat to Zimmerman… Repercussions for the taking of an innocent life.

If Zimmerman does not face justice itself, how can anyone say that justice exists at all?


Repeal Stand Your Ground.

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Reply The very last thing that Trayvon did before he was killed was cry and plead for his own life (Original post)
MrScorpio Mar 2012 OP
PCIntern Mar 2012 #1
MineralMan Mar 2012 #4
Xipe Totec Mar 2012 #5
patrice Mar 2012 #6
dickthegrouch Mar 2012 #2
patrice Mar 2012 #7
jaysunb Mar 2012 #12
bluesbassman Mar 2012 #8
jtuck004 Mar 2012 #23
hifiguy Mar 2012 #3
KT2000 Mar 2012 #9
The Doctor. Mar 2012 #27
KT2000 Mar 2012 #28
AnotherDreamWeaver Mar 2012 #39
backtomn Mar 2012 #56
AnotherDreamWeaver Mar 2012 #60
backtomn Mar 2012 #61
monmouth Mar 2012 #10
marshall gaines Mar 2012 #54
TahitiNut Mar 2012 #11
X_Digger Mar 2012 #14
Solomon Mar 2012 #13
MoonRiver Mar 2012 #15
RZM Mar 2012 #16
pinboy3niner Mar 2012 #30
DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2012 #17
nanabugg Mar 2012 #18
tclambert Mar 2012 #19
pasto76 Mar 2012 #20
ellisonz Mar 2012 #41
Frank Cannon Mar 2012 #44
Skittles Mar 2012 #21
LynneSin Mar 2012 #22
jtuck004 Mar 2012 #24
Solomon Mar 2012 #26
Ship of Fools Mar 2012 #46
X_Digger Mar 2012 #25
krispos42 Mar 2012 #35
X_Digger Mar 2012 #37
Alcibiades Mar 2012 #51
X_Digger Mar 2012 #52
backtomn Mar 2012 #57
X_Digger Mar 2012 #59
EC Mar 2012 #29
Solomon Mar 2012 #34
cynatnite Mar 2012 #31
pinboy3niner Mar 2012 #32
krispos42 Mar 2012 #33
countryjake Mar 2012 #42
krispos42 Mar 2012 #65
EFerrari Mar 2012 #36
TahitiNut Mar 2012 #45
donheld Mar 2012 #38
Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #40
RBInMaine Mar 2012 #43
secondvariety Mar 2012 #55
babylonsister Mar 2012 #47
BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2012 #48
cherish44 Mar 2012 #49
WillyT Mar 2012 #50
marshall gaines Mar 2012 #53
slackmaster Mar 2012 #58
Solomon Mar 2012 #62
Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #64
seabeyond Mar 2012 #63

Response to MrScorpio (Original post)


Response to PCIntern (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:55 PM

4. A trial and conviction, followed by a long prison

term seems like a better idea, I think. We don't lynch people. It's not even something to mention, I think.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:15 PM

5. Oh, yes, yes, yes!

Death is too good for him, as far as I'm concerned.

I want him to live a long, long, long, life in prison.

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Response to PCIntern (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:15 PM

6. Oh, that's helpful! with lerkers & NRA SYG advocates. NOT!!! Get your f-ing priorities straight!

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:37 PM

2. Every single one of the cops involved should be disciplined too

And the DA and all the other stupids who've refused to do their jobs impartially.

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Response to dickthegrouch (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:17 PM

7. And the neighborhood association. nt

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Response to patrice (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:48 PM

12. I'm sure their lawyers have yelled: IN COMING !

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Response to dickthegrouch (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:25 PM

8. Agree 100%. I can't even begin to count the things they did wrong.

And hiding behind the SYG bullshit is despicable.

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Response to dickthegrouch (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:11 PM

23. Could we expand that to the nation? n/t

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:44 PM

3. Every cop involved in the coverup and "investigation"

should join Zimmerman in the Crowbar Hilton for a long, long time.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:41 PM

9. Exactly!

The screams I heard on the tape were not of someone prevailing in combat - the self-defense claim is absurd. Zimmerman shot a youth who was begging for his life. That is a murderer.

As you said "how can anyone say that justice exists at all" and if this is allowed to stand - this is the end of civil society. This is murder at will. Sanford is not the only corrupt police dept. in this country and there are what - 21 other states that have this poorly written license to kill on their books.
And you better believe those amped up haters in the RW will take full advantage.

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Response to KT2000 (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:47 PM

27. There's a recording of Trayvon?

 

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Response to The Doctor. (Reply #27)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:16 PM

28. A woman who called 911

you can hear what I believe is Trayvon yelling for help in the background. Some say that it could be Zimmerman yelling but it sounds like a young person's voice. Screaming is more like it.
She should be able to tell what she saw.

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Response to The Doctor. (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:44 AM

39. I've listened to the woman calling 911 with the Help screams and the gunshot.

They are in the Mother Jones article. But there appears to be a 911 call from Trayvon too. See this post:
http://upload.democraticunderground.com/1002462994

A news report out of Chicago, right at the end, about 2 min. and 40 sec. I think.

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Response to AnotherDreamWeaver (Reply #39)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:50 PM

56. Police say the voice was Zimmerman's

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

This is from a Fox affiliate, so take it for what it is worth. The article says that there is a witnes that saw Martin on top of Zimmerman before the shot was fired.........and that Zimmerman had blood on his face and head.....his back was wet, with grass stains.

You don't get to start a fight.....and when you begin losing, you shoot them. So, even if this story is true, they would need to know how it started.

I believe that everyone should be keeping an open mind about this. If the police had evidence of something, they should be telling us what it is. At this point, the FBI should take over the case. The police appear to not be handling this well enough.

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Response to backtomn (Reply #56)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:27 PM

60. And his mother says it's Trayvons voice.

The most interesting development is the report from a Chicago news reporter that Trayvon made a 911 call. I'm wondering what he reported, and why it isn't released for people to hear. I watched the kid's video where he reports going out to walk his dog, sees one man standing over another, but his dog breaks away, and when he gets his dog is when the shot is fired. Someone on DU pointed out a photo taken at the scene of what may be Zimmerman, who has a clean backside on the t-shirt. That may have just been reported to give cover to Zimmerman. Who is this 'witness' Faux news is talking about? I think that is just more Faux BS myself.

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Response to AnotherDreamWeaver (Reply #60)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:51 PM

61. Voice matching should be easy

We will find that out soon enough. The story has Zimmerman wearing red. Let's just wait for all the information.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:46 PM

10. Why was this young man lying in a morgue for three days before his parents were notified?

Let me speculate: Z's father is a retired magistrate judge, most likely respected in the LE community. They're trying to spare the old man and they needed the time to get stories straight, time for Z to pack up his stuff and get out of town. If his father is contributing to his hiding out, he is as culpable as the police department. I'm thinking all of this is to protect the judge and this is how the judge wanted it to go down, hoping it would all die down in a week or so. Now that the Feds are on it, this will all change shortly. As I stated I'm speculating but I do know a lot of old CYA people and this is the SOP...

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Response to monmouth (Reply #10)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:57 PM

54. and...

 

and....Young Mr. Martin is/was black.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:47 PM

11. Good to "see" you, MrS.

(You should come over and have a beer or two with me, in the sunshiine. Guinness?)

The Florida "Stand your Ground" statute(s) explicitly say(s) that a claim of self-defense makes the claimant "immune from prosecution." It's insane. It's as if he had diplomatic immunity. I can't imagine such a law ... and doubt those of us with (cough) darker complexions are afforded such treatment under that verkachte law.

This tragedy makes me (literally) sick to my stomach... like feelings I remember so well from times past.

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Response to TahitiNut (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:58 PM

14. I don't think it says what you think it says..

And yeah, it's legalese, but bear with me..

Anyone for whom the police *actually* have no probable cause to arrest- is immune from prosecution. That's thanks to the fifth amendment (and to a lesser degree in this case the 14th). The change in the law is that the person, if found to not have probable cause to arrest (again, everyone has that thanks to the fifth), is immune from civil charges.

In this particular case, it doesn't appear that Zimmerman can reasonably avail himself of this defense (being the aggressor), and if news reports are accurate, there appears to be plenty of probable cause.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:55 PM

13. It really hackles me to no end that people can put

themselves in a state where there's doubt as to whether he should be arrested now. Really blows my mind. "Wait on an indictment" people are saying. Police fucking arrest tons of people every fricking day. They don't wait on indictments.

Gave him back his gun and just let him go. It's utterly ridiculous and can only really explained by one phenomenon.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:59 PM

15. I'm horrified beyond belief by all this.

I feel like we've been transported back 60 years. So hoping and praying that justice is done for Trayvon and indeed our entire society. If not we have left civilization for good. How can this have been allowed to happen????????????

JUSTICE FOR TRAYVON NOW!

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:07 PM

16. From what I've heard

 

Who was actually yelling on the tape isn't exactly clear. FWIW, the police played the tape for Trayvon's father and he apparently said it wasn't his son who was crying out. That's not proof and it doesn't really change anything, of course. Which one of them was yelling doesn't matter at all. And it's also possible that Trayvon's father is mistaken and that the cries really were his son.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/orlandowesh-16122564/sanford-police-speak-out-in-trayvon-martin-case-28640523.html#crsl=%252Fvideo%252Forlandowesh-16122564%252Fsanford-police-speak-out-in-trayvon-martin-case-28640523.html

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:09 PM

17. If this guy isn't indicted for murder, the whole damned criminal state should go to Fed r'cvrshp

n/t

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:12 PM

18. This just might be the one horrendous act that puts a chink in the NRA armour.

 

I hope it is.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:31 PM

19. From what range was Trayvon shot?

The autopsy should be able to determine that, at least in general. A contact shot leaves a distinctive star shaped wound. A shot from a few feet away does not, but does leave powder burns. From further away, they wouldn't see powder burns.

If the shot came from several feet away, self defense doesn't hold up.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:33 PM

20. Even the Army requires "proportional force"

we were briefed before our 2003 deployment several times to make sure it was clear that if someone came after one of us with a bat, we could not pump 100 machine gun rounds into him. We were told to use our rifle-bayonet training.

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #20)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 05:11 AM

41. Pretty astounding when the military...

...is more sensible than many American gun owners about the nature of such threats and the use of force.

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Response to pasto76 (Reply #20)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 07:42 AM

44. I have no doubt that if that POS had had a KA-BAR instead of a gun...

he would have stabbed the kid 30 times and still claimed it was self defense.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:36 PM

21. I have to say

when I read that authorities never interviewed the young gal Trayvon was speaking to on the phone when the incident occurred - I mean, WTF - this case simply SCREAMS "coverup".

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:46 PM

22. something in these 'Stand Your Ground' laws have to have an exception for someone who is unarmed

Yes I do realize that someone unarmed could be twice my size. But I still think that if they find the victim totally unarmed then there MUST be an investigation to determine if it truly was self-defense. They may find it was a woman using the gun to defend herself from a man 3 times her size who beats her daily - that would be justified. But with the Martin-Zimmerman situation, there was ABSOLUTELY NO reason this guy needed to use a gun.

Until they add this to these 'Stand Your Ground' laws then I fear for this country. This isn't about gun rights its about giving people the right to go human hunting!

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #22)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:19 PM

24. The law is "Stand YOUR Ground". Not "Run Over and Stand on Someone Else's Ground".



The only people to HAVE to mount a defense for this include the police department and City of Sandford, so all this is their defense, not his. The killer has nothing to defend, or plead, as yet. Though he may well be hiding in a hole?

I wonder if he is imagining that 30,000 people who don't like him much are standing outside the police station he will be in.

I truly hope he knows it isn't safe to sleep, or maybe eat. Probably should keep moving...


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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #24)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:07 PM

26. excellent way of putting it.

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Response to jtuck004 (Reply #24)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 08:22 AM

46. If he's the son of a retired judge,

he probably has enough financial support to flee the country, imo.
I'll bet he's long gone.

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #22)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:19 PM

25. The media (&PD) has overlooked another portion of the SYG law that precludes such actions..

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.

The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.


Zimmerman is precluded from using this defense by being the aggressor, and if he tried to detain Martin, tackled him, or attacked him, that's a forcible felony under FL law, and would make this defense doubly inapplicable.

No, I see this as more evidence of Sanford PD's cover-up. A fig leaf, so to speak, to attempt to brush one *more* incident of racial violence under the rug.

It rises to the level of institutional racism on the police department's part. Rev. Al did a piece on previous attempts by the PD to do the same.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #25)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:16 AM

35. So unless Martin had some sort of ninja-like ability with a can of iced tea...

...or a bag of Skittles, or Zimmerman was running away, there's no way that either section 2a or 2b would protect him.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #35)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:44 AM

37. Bingo. n/t

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #25)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:13 PM

51. Not only that, but Trayvon

attempted to disengage, and it was Zimmerman who followed him, not the other way around.

If someone runs away from you and you follow him, that's not standing your ground: it's murder.

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Response to Alcibiades (Reply #51)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:16 PM

52. Damn right. n/t

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #25)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:03 PM

57. If you start the fight.....

.......you can't shoot someone when you begin to lose. I am pretty sure that this law doesn't change things.

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Response to backtomn (Reply #57)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:10 PM

59. Correct. n/t

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:36 PM

29. I'd like to know where the bullet ended up?

In the ground under Trayvon or somewhere else? Was he already down when he was shot?

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Response to EC (Reply #29)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:14 AM

34. excellent point

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:51 PM

31. He also called 911 from what I've heard. n/t

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:18 PM

32. The petition by Trayvon's parents now has more than 1.6 million signatures!

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:10 AM

33. Zimmerman probably was in fear of his own life

However, as the aggressor he did not have the right to use lethal force to defend himself.

He picked a fight, went from aggressive macho bully to struggling on the grass, and shot his intended victim when he realized he was in danger of losing the fight.

At that point, it didn't matter how scared he was, or how mad he was at being beaten down by a kid 10 years and 75 pounds his junior. He had no right to defend himself.

And as such, was not covered by SYG.

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #33)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 06:17 AM

42. It doesn't matter, the Sanford PD used the SYG to cover his ass...

and because of that, Zimmerman was able to claim "self-defense" and walk away free, from a murder scene.

Stand-your-ground laws need to be magnified, closely examined and picked apart, because of this shooting, if only to find some sort of justice for Trayvon Martin.

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Response to countryjake (Reply #42)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:33 PM

65. Then the problem is with the local fuzz.

Who, let's face it, probably have a history of very selective law enforcement, if the Martin shooting is any indication.



I'm not saying the law is untouchable; I'm saying that there's the law, there's how the law goes through the justice system and gets established and interpreted, and there's the people that enforce the laws.

The law is fairly new, but if the courts have been interpreting the law (based on the fusion of 200+ years of legal precedent of a variety of other laws) in a manner that is not what the writers intended, then the law may need to be clarified or edited or modified.

The problem to me looks like the SPD, though.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:20 AM

36. I know young black men are brutalized in this country every day.

But this murder has made me feel like I've spent my life on the wrong planet and I'm going to feel like that for a long, long time.

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Response to EFerrari (Reply #36)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 08:16 AM

45. You & me both.

It resurrects feelings I had in the Jim Crow south in the 60s. Sick to my stomach.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:13 AM

38. If Zimmerman does not face justice he'll do it again

you know he will.

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Response to donheld (Reply #38)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:57 AM

40. Zimmerman has a long arrest record.

Last week someone asked how he even got ahold of a gun, since he has been arrested several times in the last 8 years or so.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 06:29 AM

43. If evidence shows he was wrongfully killed, there needs to be a strong prosecution. But, please

allow time for a thorough, complete, and proper investigation. This should be handled by the Florida state police at this point with the locals only in an assistance mode. As the president said, we must mourn for the kid and the family, but there are legal issues here that need and deserve a full and proper investigation before all judgements are cast. This is what we do in America.

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Response to RBInMaine (Reply #43)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:00 PM

55. There is no Law Enforcement agency

connected to the state of Florida I trust to do a proper investigation. That ship has sailed.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 08:55 AM

47. This makes my heart and head hurt.

Where is the justice?

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 11:13 AM

48. If Zimmerman does not face justice itself, how can anyone say that justice exists at all?


I'm out of any further words

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 11:43 AM

49. It looks like a hate crime judging by the "f**king coons" comment he made

those 9/11 tapes are pretty strong evidence that it was not self defense

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 11:52 AM

50. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!


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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:53 PM

53. where?

 

Where is Zimmerman? Not much about him or his whereabouts.

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Response to marshall gaines (Reply #53)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:05 PM

58. I'd be out of sight too if there were people openly offering a bounty for my head

 

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #58)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:14 PM

62. And I'd also feel ashamed to face the public having after committing cold blooded murder.

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Response to slackmaster (Reply #58)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:29 PM

64. This shooting happened over a month ago.

That "bounty" wasn't offered until late this week.

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Response to MrScorpio (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 04:17 PM

63. Zimmerman is a coward. nt

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