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Tue Mar 4, 2014, 08:37 AM

Rallying around the wrong president

Rallying around the wrong president

By Steve Benen

I’ve been fascinated of late by Republican praise of Russian President Vladimir Putin, but as Rachel noted on the show last night, Rudy Giuliani appears to have taken this affection to a new level. For those who can’t watch clips online, here’s the former mayor talking to Fox’s Neil Cavuto yesterday.

GIULIANI: Putin decides what he wants to do and he does it in half a day, right? He decided he had to go to their parliament. He went to their parliament. He got permission in 15 minutes.

CAVUTO: Well, that was kind of like perfunctory.

GIULIANI: But he makes a decision and he executes it, quickly. Then everybody reacts. That’s what you call a leader. President Obama, he’s got to think about it. He’s got to go over it again. He’s got to talk to more people about it.

It’s not unusual, during a time of crisis, for Americans to rally behind a president. In Giuliani’s case, the trouble is the New York Republican appears to be rallying behind the wrong president.

That said, it’s nevertheless important to appreciate the fact that, in Giuliani’s mind, the mark of an effective leader is seen in someone who acts unilaterally, invades a country, and doesn’t stop to think too much about it. Real leaders, the argument goes, simply act – then watch as “everybody reacts.”

But here’s the follow-up question for Giuliani and other conservatives swooning over Putin: if President Obama did act that way, wouldn’t you be calling him a lawless, out-of-control tyrant?

We’ve talked many times about the underlying contradictions embraced by Obama’s detractors. The president’s critics have presented two competing caricatures, both of which are wrong, but more importantly, both of which incongruous.

- more -

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/rallying-around-the-wrong-president

They already call President Obama a "lawless, out-of-control tyrant" because of Obamacare. Republicans are warmongering morons.

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Arrow 32 replies Author Time Post
Reply Rallying around the wrong president (Original post)
ProSense Mar 2014 OP
spanone Mar 2014 #1
ellenfl Mar 2014 #2
BeyondGeography Mar 2014 #3
pangaia Mar 2014 #4
RobertEarl Mar 2014 #5
leftynyc Mar 2014 #17
muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #18
NuclearDem Mar 2014 #20
tridim Mar 2014 #6
Tom Ripley Mar 2014 #10
Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #22
JustAnotherGen Mar 2014 #7
n2doc Mar 2014 #8
ProSense Mar 2014 #25
rurallib Mar 2014 #9
geek tragedy Mar 2014 #11
EC Mar 2014 #12
chrisa Mar 2014 #13
warrior1 Mar 2014 #14
sheshe2 Mar 2014 #15
Puglover Mar 2014 #16
Iliyah Mar 2014 #19
TomClash Mar 2014 #21
BumRushDaShow Mar 2014 #23
1StrongBlackMan Mar 2014 #24
Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2014 #29
Wellstone ruled Mar 2014 #26
Dawson Leery Mar 2014 #27
Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2014 #28
Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #30
Cha Mar 2014 #31
fishwax Mar 2014 #32

Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 08:38 AM

1. 2 words come to mind. FUCK GIULIANI.

how dare the President 'think' about this situation.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 08:38 AM

2. can't disagree with your assessment. eom

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 08:39 AM

3. Raging dicktater envy

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 08:40 AM

4. As an Up-state New Yorker,

Julie, as we sometimes refer to him when we aren't calling him a self-obsessed slimeball,, is one of the biggest embarrassments to our state in the last 50 years.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 08:40 AM

5. They want more war

Funny, tho, Putin seems to be a peacenik.

Russia's last invasion was 20-30 years ago.

The US has invaded about 5 times in the last few years.

They are just trying to push Obama into reacting. Obama is too cool for that.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 10:50 AM

17. Are you forgetting he invaded Georgia?

And his support for the al assad regime shows real "peacenik tendencies.

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 10:56 AM

18. I don't think Chechens would call him a peacenik, either


Chechnyans caught in the crossfire
In 2006 Daniel J Gerstle went to Russia's North Caucasus region to work as an aidworker. He describes how a settlement camp for displaced families was attacked by Russian security forces; he also describes his difficulties in alleviating the plight of local families whose needs came second to national security

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/dec/24/chechnya-russia


How the War on Terrorism Did Russia a Favor

Ten years ago, on Sept. 20, 2001, President George W. Bush announced for the first time that in response to the terrorist attacks of 9/11 the U.S. was starting a "war on terror," and he asked every nation to help. Four days later, against the advice of many of his generals, Russian President Vladimir Putin agreed, creating a bond unlike any the U.S. and Russia had built since World War II. But as with many of the unlikely relationships the U.S. formed after 9/11, the reasoning behind this one was not just solidarity or common cause. Countries around the world realized the practical appeal of a war on terrorism. Over the past ten years, it has become a seemingly permanent call to arms, a kind of incantation used to dodge questions, build alliances and justify the use of force. No one, not even Bush, grasped this as quickly as Putin.

Even before Putin became Russia's President in early 2000, and long before the Twin Towers fell, he had invoked the idea of a war against global terrorism to justify Russia's war in Chechnya. The terrorism aspect, at least, was true. Chechen separatists, who renewed their centuries-old struggle for independence soon after the Soviet Union fell, had resorted to terrorism as early as 1995, when they seized a hospital in the Russian town of Budyonnovsk and held more than 1,500 people hostage. Then in 1999, a series of apartment bombings, also blamed on the Chechens, killed hundreds of people in Moscow and other Russian cities. Putin responded by launching Russia's second full-scale invasion of Chechnya in less than a decade. "He received carte blanche from the citizens of Russia," says Mikhail Kasyanov, who was Russia's Finance Minister at the time. "They simply closed their eyes and let him do whatever he wanted as long as he saved them from this threat."

There was scant evidence, however, that the Chechen rebels were part of some global Islamist terrorist network, as Putin and his government repeatedly claimed. The leader of the separatists at the time was Aslan Maskhadov, a former Red Army colonel who was closer to communism than Islamism, and there was no proof that he received much help from abroad. "Still, all official statements said that we are fighting a war against international terror," says Andrei Illarionov, who served as Putin's senior economic adviser between 2000 and '05. "Of course, nobody outside Russia bought it." In the West, Putin's war in Chechnya thus enjoyed little sympathy. The Chechen conflict was seen as part of a rebellion that Moscow was trying to crush, and the atrocities allegedly committed by both sides earned widespread condemnation.
...
By the summer of 2000, Russia had defeated the Chechen separatists and installed a puppet government led by the Kadyrov family, a Chechen clan loyal to the Kremlin. But claims of wholesale violations of human rights, including torture and extrajudicial killings, continued to surface as the Kadyrovs consolidated power in Chechnya. The need to remind the world that Russia was still fighting the war on terrorism remained, and Putin began to claim ever stronger links between Chechen rebels and the global jihad.

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2093529,00.html

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Response to RobertEarl (Reply #5)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 11:09 AM

20. Iraq and Afghanistan. That's two. Not five.

Russia has invaded Georgia, Crimea, repeatedly flattened Grozny, and armed a dictator slaughtering his own people. Those aren't the actions of a peacenik.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 08:42 AM

6. Obama drove them insane.

It's obvious now.

He did the same thing to many formerly intelligent DU'ers.

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Response to tridim (Reply #6)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 09:43 AM

10. +1000

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Response to tridim (Reply #6)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 11:24 AM

22. +1

These clowns who all love Putin's leadership and vision so much are more than welcome to emigrate...

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 08:42 AM

7. Absolute truth Prosense!



They already call President Obama a "lawless, out-of-control tyrant" because of Obamacare. Republicans are warmongering morons.


And the author of the piece is correct as well. If Obama had acted unilaterally - they WOULD say he is lawless and out of control!

We can't win with these people - and by we . . . regardless of where every day unelected official democrats stand on this issue (see the discussions here this weekend) - we ourselves like to turn things over and peel back the layers of the onion before jumping in feet first. It would make sense the man we voted for behaves that way -

But keep in mind - those across the spectrum from moderate to far left - have an overwhelming need for things to make sense.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 08:46 AM

8. Everything must fit the narrative

"Obama is a weak, stuck up, foolish, cowardly you-know-what who is worse than Carter". Every story, no matter what, must fit that narrative.

So far Obama has risen above it all and done what he must do to try and resolve conflicts the right way. I swear the earth would be a smoking blackened sphere if these insane repubs had their way.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #8)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:32 PM

25. Yup. n/t

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 09:18 AM

9. MR. Guilliani, may I strongly suggest you move to Moscow

and enjoy some of that strong leadership you so desperately crave.
Take Johnny the fly-boy and lady Lindsey with you , please

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 09:46 AM

11. Russia is the ultimate Red State--homophobic, ultra-nationalistic, intertwined

with the Orthodox Church, authoritarian, and militaristic.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 10:39 AM

12. Well, Giuliani

what do you think would happen if President Obama made a quick decission and asked Congress to go along with it?

Yeah,they wouldn't do shit, would it...so how is this the President's fault that he's not a dictator? Is that what you want? You seem to like to accuse him of being one, so I'm sure you'd really get off on him really acting like one, wouldn't you?

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 10:42 AM

13. Fuck Putin and those who praise him. n/t

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 10:43 AM

14. they sure can't help but show their true colors

and it isn't red, white and blue.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 10:48 AM

15. That's right...

Jump before you Think, oh wait...

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 10:49 AM

16. Rachels face last

night when reporting on this was utterly priceless. We replayed it like 3 times.

Oh BTW. I recced your OP cause it's a good one.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 11:07 AM

19. I can say that GOPers are UN-AMERICAN

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 11:22 AM

21. Succinctly stated,

Giuliani prefers leaders who act before they think.

Where have we seen this show before? What could go wrong?

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 11:25 AM

23. "The president’s critics have presented two competing caricatures"

and the M$M are contributors to and enablers of this Mr. Hyde - Mr. Hyde, Jr. nonsensical framing and refuse to point out the idiocies of the absurd assertions.

If anything, the fact that these clueless former elected officials and their minons still in office, continue to gloss over the fact that Putin is the very "Commie" that they rail against, is telling. But then again, they have so distorted the terms "Marxist", "Communist", "Fascist", "Socialist", etc., that rely on the confusion among their base and the M$M to perpetuate their fraud.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 11:40 AM

24. Well ...

Where have I heard this before? ...

That said, it’s nevertheless important to appreciate the fact that, in Giuliani’s mind, the mark of an effective leader is seen in someone who acts unilaterally, invades a country, and doesn’t stop to think too much about it. Real leaders, the argument goes, simply act – then watch as “everybody reacts.”


On yeah ...

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.

(The source of the term is a quotation in an October 17, 2004, The New York Times Magazine article by writer Ron Suskind, quoting an unnamed aide to George W. Bush (later attributed to Karl Rove)

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #24)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:02 PM

29. +1

Thought of that one too. Anybody seen Rove lately?

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:54 PM

26. Neo Cons Guys.

Whom are the Players here. Kerry has a state department full of intrenched Bush appointees who were Moled in before he left office. We have a couple of Billionaires and NGO's players stirring the pot in the Ukraine. It's all about the Oil and Gas and Rare Earth metals. Know one cares one spittle about the average Ukrainian. Bottom line,they got the money and that is what the 1%ers want.

Ukraine is the Bread Basket of Europe. Check out witch U.S. companies who have huge operations in the Ukraine. Cargill-Mosaic and other big Ag Co's. Just like the Banana Revolutions in Latin America. Worlds largest Ethanol Plant built is in the Ukraine and was built by a Midwestern Company.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:00 PM

27. Let's talk about Don Rudy's treatment of minorities during his reign.

Also->

He pissed off too many people (the real reason why he dropped out of the Senate race) and left the city with a 4 billion dollar deficit (this was during the massive economic expansion of the 90's).

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:00 PM

28. Republicans have finally found the perfect country for themselves

And it is...........Russia. Oh, irony of ironies.

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:04 PM

30. It is a sign of weakness on Giuliani's leadership.

He needs to get a proper feel before he opens his mouth. He jumped out in defense of Christie and then completely threw Christie under the bus. Who knows where he will be in a few days

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 09:48 PM

31. Oxymorons. "real leaders are like bush".. The Decider..

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Response to ProSense (Original post)

Tue Mar 4, 2014, 10:03 PM

32. "both of which are wrong, but more importantly, both of which [are] incongruous."

yeah, that sums it up nicely

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