Florida man lives to tell of ‘shoot first’ horror (Reuters)

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/displayarticle.asp?xfile=data/international/2012/March/international_March875.xml&section=international&col=

Florida man lives to tell of ‘shoot first’ horror (Reuters)

23 March 2012

MIAMI - On June 5, 2006, not long after Florida enacted the first “Stand Your Ground” law in the United States, unarmed Jason Rosenbloom was shot in the stomach and chest by his next-door neighbor after a shouting match over trash.

Exactly what happened that day in Clearwater, Florida, is still open to dispute. Kenneth Allen, a retired police officer, said he shot Rosenbloom because he was trying to storm into his house.

Rosenbloom told Reuters in a telephone interview this week he never tried to enter the house and was in Allen’s yard, about 10 feet (3 metres) from his front door, when he was shot moments after he put his hands up. snip

Allen was not arrested in the shooting of Rosenbloom. Sergeant Tom Nestor of the Pinella’s County Sheriff’s Office said Allen was found to have acted in self-defense when he pumped two rounds into Rosenbloom with his 9mm semi-automatic pistol.

“He meant for me to be dead and he never called 911,” said Rosenbloom, 36, adding that Allen, now 65, bent over him and using an expletive, warned him not to tangle “with an ex-cop” as he lay bleeding on the ground.

[Evasporque]

1. Let freedom reign!!

Hail Republican Gun Freedom!
Minor confrontation now ends in bullets tearing through flesh!

YES Just like John Wayne a True American...hero....shoot to kill!

(Oh so what John Wayne was a actor, and his characters were fictional...and for entertainment....)

Thats the real America!!

[CanonRay]

2. This law should be called the "Kill Whoever You Feel Like" Law

So two guys get in a fistfight in a bar. One starts to lose, pulls a gun and kills the other. Self defense because he felt threatened? Apparently in Florida. Tell you what, I wouldn't go to Florida on a bet, and I think Canada and other countries should issue a warning to their tourists.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

8. You need to read the actual law and related statutes

Note the about half the states have no duty to retreat...

[DisgustipatedinCA]

13. acutally, people need to quit shooting other people, irrespective of any law

You've lost your way if you think you can explain away murder as some sort of property rights issue or some vague feeling of being threatened. Here in the real world, murder is still murder, no matter what clever argument gunlovers come up with.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. Feeling a bit hyperbolic this AM?

The SYG law is not the issue. The Florida law WRT to use of deadly force is clear. It requires a reasonable fear or GBI or death. Its just about the same everywhere. No way that Zimmerman can get past that. No one I know, gun owner or not, is supporting Zimmerman.

BTW, no duty to retreat is the case in about half the states, including CA (somewhat situational). Castle Doctrine is even more prevalent.

There have been threads here as to what the charges could be. Most say that 1st Degree seems unlikely, but 2nd Degree should certainly be the top count. Sounds good to me.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

17. No, I'm not feeling hyperbolic. I'm feeling like stripping away all the BS

And when you dig out from all the BS excuses for guns, most especially handguns, the fact is, they're used to kill people. This kid would not be dead had George Zimmerman not possessed a gun. And yes, I still contend that people need to quit shooting other people. A good start for any individual wishing not to kill someone else is to resolve to stop living in cowardly fear of "the other". So give me your state-by-state laws, cite chapter and verse, and make sure to include section numbers and stuff (I'm always impressed by stuff like "section 4.03z--it sounds so official). I'm still going with "people need to quit shooting other people", because, you know, I'm a progressive (if not a professor).

[ellisonz]

23. +1000

[Occulus]

18. what the law actually says has no apparent bearing on how gun nuts interpret it at the time

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. Then they go to jail for a very long time

[countryjake]

25. You mean "shoot first - ask later", already read it, thanks...

and that's what we call it, up here in WA state.

Every state with these stand-your-ground laws needs to seriously re-examine who exactly is being "protected" by such statutes.

I have a feeling that only a dumbass feels it's fair to bring their fists to a gunfight, but that's what those who want even more widespread passage of such "self-defense" laws expect us to believe.

[Doctor_J]

3. The NRA will insist the law has nothing to do with the shooting

[lanlady]

26. neither did the gun have anything to do with the murder....

...according to the usual NRA bull***t.

[Little Star]

4. That law could destroy Florida's tourism....

My grown daughter just told me last night that she has changed her mind about going to Disney because of this law.

She has a young teenage son and was thinking of going there this year before he gets too old to enjoy the rides, etc. Out of the clear blue sky she told me they will not be going there. Can't say I blame her.

That state survives on tourism. Can their tourism industry be this dumb?

[nanabugg]

5. Indeed, it should. My club (30 members) voted to cancel their annual summer meeting there. nt

[XanaDUer]

6. Something tells me the NRA lobby's

More powerful than the tourism lobby. But yes, loss of monies will get the attention of TPTB in FL right quick. Maybe the NRA. An make up for lost revenue?

[Carolina]

12. NRA lobby controls the politicians

but the people's pocketbooks will be hurt by lack of tourism and unless the NRA plans to pay all the hospitality workers, the lack of tourism $$$ will have an effect.

I'm supposed to go to a convention in FLA in July, and while it hasn't been cancelled, I have no plans to attend ... not now

[frylock]

9. you should suggest that she call disneyworld and the florida board of tourism..

and let them know why she is cancelling her plans.

[Little Star]

11. I will.

[Selatius]

22. Most of Disney's tourism is international in nature. Unless this is played earth-wide ...

I don't see it as affecting Disney too much, and Disney is one of the largest employers in the entire state.

Most people who've followed American news in the last ten years, especially during the Bush Administration, already have a preconceived notion of the US as a declining superpower with a huge military, an obsession with guns, a collapsing health care system, collapsing infrastructure, and gross income inequality with high crime rates in poor areas, all in the richest nation on the planet.

We're considered a laughing stock in Europe. They may like Obama as a person, but their notion of the US as what I mentioned above is deep-rooted already and, frankly, grounded in some level of fact.

[MrSlayer]

24. No one is packing heat at the Magic Kingdom.

Guns are not allowed on Disney property AT ALL. Not even their cops are allowed to have guns. They are exempt from open carry laws, concealed carry laws and they've found a tricky little loophole to get around the law allowing workers to keep guns in their cars. If you bring a gun to work, you're fired. The Disney resort is like a country unto itself. It is geographically located in Florida but it's not really Florida.

Disney is extremely anti-gun and the NRA hates them for it.

Canceling a trip there out of fear of the crazy gun laws in the state is unwarranted. They don't apply there. The same goes dor Universal Studios. They get around the gun laws by having a Public school on their property.

[Fla Dem]

7. I live in Florida, not a minority, but I won't even look at someone in the car

next to me at a stop light. Ever since they passed the CCW, I make sure I don't piss anyone off even by giving them a look they may take offense to.

[gratuitous]

10. Isn't that a pleasant way to live?

Almost makes you wonder why we chose to live this way, but what's done is done, and there's no other way for us to interact with others in our society.

[siligut]

14. The stand your ground law, according to the article has increased violent crime . . . well duh

Since the law was enacted, according to the St. Petersburg Times, "justifiable" homicides have tripled.

Despite assertions from supporters of the law that it has worked as a deterrent of violent crime, Dennis Henigan, a lawyer and veteran vice president of the Brady Campaign, said the state was still saddled with a “tragic record” on violent crime.

“It’s quite remarkable how consistently awful Florida’s record has been,” Henigan said. “It takes some work to finish in the top five in violent crime among all the states every single year for the last 30 years.”

30 years? Makes me think the law was introduced to help police reduce all that pesky paper work necessary when a shooting occurs. Saves the courts some time too.

[Doctor_J]

15. You make a point

Makes me think the law was introduced to help police reduce all that pesky paper work necessary when a shooting occurs. Saves the courts some time too.

Certainly Sanford PD would have at least looked into this if it weren't for SYG

[Dragonfli]

20. Be careful what you say, I was just told not to criticize ALEC or their supports as right wing.

I was told I would be banned for it, so be careful, even Max Bauccus and Lieberman must not be called right of center or it is slander that will get you banned as far as I can tell from the context, and if people hold Right wing NRA views, calling it any thing other than liberal is very very bad and I likely will get banned for doing so.

I think that means that in good conscious I can't say anything, right wing legislation is right wing legislation, I can't bring myself to call it liberal and can't survive here because of it.

I am shocked and saddened by finding this out this morning, I have posted here since 2004 and have been a Democrat for 50 years, hard to adapt to not being allowed to have views that were the Norm for Democrats for most of that time I spent in the party.

Rebrandings are adapted to more easily by younger folks, I still think most of what ALEC and the Chamber of Commerce does is right wing.

I have been warned, but I seriously doubt the re-education will take with me, I am too old.
I will only post what is not a blatant lie, what a word actualy means.

This target is burning a hole in the back of my head and I don't think I can adapt to the new view of what liberal is, it had a different label the whole time I was growing up.

I went and got to old for the new interpretation of liberal as ALEC and "shooting freedoms"

[Cali_Democrat]

21. And people wonder why America is ridiculed by most other civilized nations, especially in Europe

America is not viewed as some kind of wonderful utopia by much of the world. America is not considered to be a shining city on a hill. Nope. Only brainwashed Americans believe that nonsense.

America is considered to be a violence-plagued nation where people are obsessed with guns, ultra-capitalism and where human life is devalued. They would be correct in their assumptions.

[JNelson6563]

27. I know of three couples who aren't going to FLA

They usually go this time of year, together. Have done so for years. Not this year and, they say, maybe never again.

Starting to look like Florida has shot itself in the foot.

Julie