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Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:25 PM

More and More French Jews Emigrating to Israel

Many must have been reminded of the treatment of Jews under the Third Reich. Shortly after the attack on a Jewish school in the southern French city of Toulouse on Monday, school principals in the city walked into classrooms and asked the Jewish pupils to come forward. "We ask you to leave the class and join the other Jewish children, who are in a locked and safe location."

It was intended as a precaution in response to a request from the Jewish community. But it also highlights the degree to which many Jews in France feel that they are a threatened and increasingly excluded minority. Every year, these feelings prompt thousands to take a dramatic decision, namely, to pack their belongings and move to a crisis zone: Israel. They feel safer there.

Five years ago, Linda moved from Paris to Canada and then to the Israeli port city of Ashdod. Only a week ago, she, her husband and their two sons faced a hail of rockets from the Gaza Strip. Nevertheless, Linda, who doesn't want to be identified by her last name, is delighted to be living in France no longer. "It's much safer here than in France," she says.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,822928,00.html

28 replies, 2395 views

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Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply More and More French Jews Emigrating to Israel (Original post)
FarCenter Mar 2012 OP
Xipe Totec Mar 2012 #1
teddy51 Mar 2012 #2
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #5
teddy51 Mar 2012 #8
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #17
nanabugg Mar 2012 #9
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #18
hifiguy Mar 2012 #23
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #26
Xipe Totec Mar 2012 #6
nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #19
FarCenter Mar 2012 #3
Xipe Totec Mar 2012 #4
Behind the Aegis Mar 2012 #7
nanabugg Mar 2012 #10
Behind the Aegis Mar 2012 #12
nanabugg Mar 2012 #14
Behind the Aegis Mar 2012 #15
nanabugg Mar 2012 #10
nanabugg Mar 2012 #13
COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #16
aint_no_life_nowhere Mar 2012 #22
FarCenter Mar 2012 #24
COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #27
amandabeech Mar 2012 #20
ellisonz Mar 2012 #21
Behind the Aegis Mar 2012 #25
Burma Jones Mar 2012 #28

Response to FarCenter (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:40 PM

1. Personally, I think it is a mistake

I think Jews deserve the right to live wherever the hell they want, in whatever corner of the world they want.

Jews deserve to feel safe, no mater where in the earth they want to live.

But, hey, I'm just a converso; a descendent of Sephardic Jews forcefully converted to Catholicism 500 years ago in Spain.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:43 PM

2. I have no argument with your post other than to say that, it should apply to everyone and

 

not just Jews. So my question would have to be, what makes Jews special?

On Edit: I have no problem with Jews, but I certainly have a problem with the current leaders of Israel, just like I have a problem with any country that has a right wing leadership.

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Response to teddy51 (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:25 PM

5. Oh that could take volumes.

As a daughter of the holocaust I took a fascinating course on the history of anti semitism.

I will try to give you some of the high points.

In the ancient word they were the only ones, except for an Egyptian Pharaoh for about five seconds, in the historic calendar to believe in one god and refuse to bow before any others. Ignoring judges by around the year 500 BCE that made oh Greeks a tad suspicious and distrustful. That s where actually it started. Them Jews and their single god and would you believe it? They bathe and refuse to enter on bended knee at the temple for Zeus or Apollo...I wish I was kidding.

The whole series of troubles with Rome came from the upstart religion and them going on a little revolt around tether year 70 CE. Did I mention Rome forced Jews out of Judea?

Over the centuries it became a matter of self fulfilling prophecies. I mean it's not like the last 2000 years or so, until recently that is, Jews could work the land. They were allowed by law to do banking, butcher and a few other trades.

Anyhow, this is truly a very much shortened cliff's version. But the Passion of the Christ was a normal play and part of it in the middle ages had Blood Libel, a convenient way to avoid peasant revolts.

But it comes down, as far as I can tell, to people not willing to go on bended knee to local gods and please, lord choose somebody else for a litte while, we can use a vacation. Oh and France is an especially bad actor, not just against Jews...there are no Hugenots, care to ask why? And also an extremely good actor, Napoleon was the first to recognize Jews as equal with human rights.

There are literally reams on this, if truly interested I highly recomend taking a course.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:14 AM

8. Sorry, but how are you a daughter of the holocaust? My understanding is that you are of

 

hispanic background; ie: Mexico... Am I wrong about this?

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Response to teddy51 (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:17 PM

17. Dad came from Poland

Due to the Hitler travel plan.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:59 AM

9. But the Hebrews, along with Abram at first believed in many gods. (some in secret).

 

Other peoples besides Jews believed on one god (one creator), Native Americans believed in a single creator. Check out more history than just the what is in the Torah or Holy Bible.

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Response to nanabugg (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:21 PM

18. But the history I am citing is for the Levant

And by the year 500 BCE they mostly believed in one God. judges is an allegory to the period when in fact they pursued those who did.

And are you telling me that there was any contact between the Americas and the Levant around 500 BCE? That be news to me, and most historians I know off.

We are not talking of the believes of Native peoples in the New World, which wasn't new to them.

Oh and for the record Mother Cultures in the New World believed in a panoply of them, that be the Pre-Classic in the New Workd.

One more thing, there is zero Mention of Ateknathon, the Pharaoh I refered to, in any biblical writings.

There are days.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:15 PM

23. An interesting side note is that significant portions

of Pharoah Akhenaten's "Hymn to the Aten" turn up almost word for word in much later Jewish scriptures. (Akhenaten was the first known monotheist in history and father of King Tut).

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #23)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:10 PM

26. The song of songs is indeed an Egyptian piece

Of a thousand years before.



And one of my favorite books for it's lyrical power.

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Response to teddy51 (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:46 PM

6. It does apply to everyone, in mi mind

Had the post been about any other group of people on the face of the earth, my post would have been very much the same.

Every human being has the right to inherit the earth, as far as I'm concerned.

Every human being has the right to live wherever they want. People should not have to hovel in a ghetto to feel safe; they should feel safe wherever they want to be.

That's my point.

That's my only point.

That's my dream.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #6)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:40 PM

19. I share that with you

And I am sorry Spain did what they did to your family about 500 years ago. They were not nice.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:00 PM

3. That's only realistic during periods of relative prosperity and low social stress

Otherwise people naturally form into groups based on race, religion, language, class, and other markers of ethnic identity.

During periods of economic or social stress, the groups compete, often viciously, and sometimes violently. It's what humans do.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:08 PM

4. Still, a man can dream... nt

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Response to FarCenter (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:01 AM

7. It isn't all that surprising, but how much is reality.

Anytime tragedy's like this happen, I see articles like this. I don't closely follow the immigration patterns of Israel, but I know things aren't quite some make it out to be, and personally, I see it as having possible sinister motives. But, there is is at least a place where Jews can feel safe(er) and that is important. I wish there were a similar nation for gays, sometimes.

The more and more that anti-Semitism, including the new anti-Semitism, continues to be trotted out, the more and more Jews are going to feel unsafe in their homes and home nations, because we aren't seen as "real" countrymen.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:05 AM

10. How true. And it is tragic that blacks have no safety of place or skin color to take refuge. nt

 

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Response to nanabugg (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:06 AM

12. How is that relevant?

Blacks have several nations which are run and comprised totally of other blacks. Why is it you pop into threads about anti-Semitism and try to derail with these type of comments?

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:10 AM

14. Huh? Pardon me for having an opinion. nt

 

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Response to nanabugg (Reply #14)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:14 AM

15. Yes, I notice it is the same one, usually in threads about anti-Semitism.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #7)


Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:07 AM

13. How true. And it is tragic that blacks have no safety of place or skin color to take refuge.

 

Worse than being not seen as "real countrymen" is not being seen as human.

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Response to FarCenter (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:03 AM

16. Unfortunately France has a grand old history

of antisemitism, just somewhat more disguised (at times) than the 'in your face' version adopted by Germany's Third Reich. Think back to the Dreyfus affair, where Dreyfus got to carry the can for the entire French Military Establishment's failure thanks to being a Jew. And, in Vichy France, Jews were rounded up as enthusiastically as in other European countries. French Jews have every right to be nervous and to them, as to many Jews, the only place in the world they can absolutely count on to take them in is Israel.

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Response to COLGATE4 (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:14 PM

22. That's kind of a blanket statement

France has had its share of anti-semitism and the Dreyfus affair was simply deplorable, but recall that half of France rose up in his defense and condemned the way he was treated, particularly the press and intellectuals. And he was eventually awarded the Legion of Honor. During World War II it's true that Vichy, French Nazis and collaborators including the Catholic Church helped round up thousands of Jews for the camps, but a larger percentage of the Jewish population survived the war than in other countries occupied by the Germans, primarily because at the local level, the government and the church met a lot of passive resistance. An interesting book is The Impossible Mission, the story of Father Marie Benoit who saved thousands of Jews by creating a virtual factory of false papers and an underground network to house Jews in French homes or smuggle them out of the country. Father Benoit earned the nickname Father Of The Jews and is recognized by Yad Vashem as among the "righteous" heroes of the holocaust. There were many other heroes in France who defied the Nazi policy of deportation, some who even openly wore the star of David in solidarity. Those individuals ahould be recognized as well.

I'm not disputing the fact that a Jewish homeland is necessary. I believe it is, until the world can prove to the Jewish people that it won't seek them out for genocide or persecution. But to single out the French as being an entire country of anti-semites is a blanket statement that I find too extreme. Before WWII, France elected s Jewish Prime Minister, twice. I'm referring of course to Leon Blum. Has this ever occurred in any other country? Could a U.S. President who happens to be a Jew get elected? Maybe, but I think it might be very difficult particularly with the South (ever seen the film Gentleman's Agreement?). And before the war, there were many very successful actors in France who were beloved by the public who were known to be Jewish such as Michel Simon and the great Harry Baur, the latter who was tortured and murdered by the Gestapo.

I'm with you in deploring anti-semitism but I also think it's very important to remember the positive along with the negative and to condemn all the French isn't right in my opinion.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #22)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:38 PM

24. But Israel was an extremely poor choice for a Jewish homeland

The area has been under the thumb of one or another adjacent empires throughout most of history.

The last time a European power tried to control the area, it lastes from 1000 to 1200 CE.

It is certainly too small geographically to be defensible against modern weaponry. Perhaps not in the late 1800s when the Zionist movement started, but certainly now.

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Response to aint_no_life_nowhere (Reply #22)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:07 AM

27. I don't think Dreyfus being eventually

(read "how long afterwards") vindicated by the French is something to applaud. And I'm not in agreement that "half of France" rose up against his imprisonment. Zola was obviously instrumental in bringing press attention to the unmitigated smearing and persecution of an innocent man, but a lot of the pro-Dreyfus sentiment was really anti French Establishment ire.

I am also aware that there were courageous French citizens who helped the Jews. Father Benoit is a sterling example of those people. But I would suggest to you that the Father Benoit-type Frenchmen were definitely in a minority.

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Response to FarCenter (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:33 PM

20. The article says that "Linda" moved from Paris to Canada.

I've visited Canada several times, but I'm not Jewish and some anti-semitism might fly right over my head. I even dated a Jewish guy from Montreal when I was in grad school, and he never said anything about anti-semitism. Nice guy--hope he's doing well.

I would be curious as to why "Linda" left peaceful Canada to go to Israel which, unfortunately, is not currently as peaceful as Canada.

The weather? Learning to speak English as a second language?

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Response to FarCenter (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:56 PM

21. Antisemitism is wrong.

There are no excuses for it. That in 2012 we are still combating the same forces of hate we crushed over 60 years ago is astounding.

It astounds me in Toulouse, it astounds me in Sanford.

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Response to ellisonz (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:42 PM

25. Apparently, only sometimes. Depends on how and who uses it.

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Response to FarCenter (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:22 AM

28. Here's an interesting little snippet:

"Even today, there are already "hundreds of anti-Semitic incidents" a year, committed mainly by Arab immigrants, says Zana. "This creates a great deal of pressure. How long can Jewish communities protect themselves from attacks with surveillance cameras?""

Zama is Avi Zama, the director of Ami, an organization that provides assistance to newly arrived French Jews.


Mainly by Arab Immigrants eh?

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