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Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:42 PM

Looks like a lot of people want to hang him now rather than wait for a trial.

Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?

346 replies, 27846 views

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Reply Looks like a lot of people want to hang him now rather than wait for a trial. (Original post)
L0oniX Mar 2012 OP
Kalidurga Mar 2012 #1
nanabugg Mar 2012 #97
CakeGrrl Mar 2012 #2
L0oniX Mar 2012 #4
Bicoastal Mar 2012 #14
L0oniX Mar 2012 #43
Bicoastal Mar 2012 #45
.99center Mar 2012 #52
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #172
.99center Mar 2012 #327
Booster Mar 2012 #75
EOTE Mar 2012 #102
L0oniX Mar 2012 #131
EOTE Mar 2012 #134
L0oniX Mar 2012 #142
EOTE Mar 2012 #143
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #170
L0oniX Mar 2012 #175
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #177
L0oniX Mar 2012 #182
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #186
L0oniX Mar 2012 #193
Rex Mar 2012 #345
Bluerthanblue Mar 2012 #196
elehhhhna Mar 2012 #340
liberalhistorian Mar 2012 #68
L0oniX Mar 2012 #185
.99center Mar 2012 #15
L0oniX Mar 2012 #53
.99center Mar 2012 #69
EOTE Mar 2012 #103
L0oniX Mar 2012 #133
EOTE Mar 2012 #136
L0oniX Mar 2012 #144
EOTE Mar 2012 #145
L0oniX Mar 2012 #152
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #181
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #174
.99center Mar 2012 #314
L0oniX Mar 2012 #325
.99center Mar 2012 #336
savalez Mar 2012 #18
L0oniX Mar 2012 #46
jaded_old_cynic Mar 2012 #80
CakeGrrl Mar 2012 #22
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #25
kestrel91316 Mar 2012 #32
L0oniX Mar 2012 #54
Booster Mar 2012 #88
butterfly77 Mar 2012 #184
L0oniX Mar 2012 #201
butterfly77 Mar 2012 #204
L0oniX Mar 2012 #206
Mojorabbit Mar 2012 #61
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #107
slackmaster Mar 2012 #71
girl gone mad Mar 2012 #223
L0oniX Mar 2012 #231
RobertEarl Mar 2012 #3
Enrique Mar 2012 #5
L0oniX Mar 2012 #8
Bicoastal Mar 2012 #6
Control-Z Mar 2012 #7
L0oniX Mar 2012 #13
Control-Z Mar 2012 #20
Oilwellian Mar 2012 #93
EOTE Mar 2012 #111
MrBig Mar 2012 #123
EOTE Mar 2012 #126
MrBig Mar 2012 #128
EOTE Mar 2012 #129
MrBig Mar 2012 #134
EOTE Mar 2012 #139
MrBig Mar 2012 #149
Son of Gob Mar 2012 #232
L0oniX Mar 2012 #208
hlthe2b Mar 2012 #9
L0oniX Mar 2012 #58
EOTE Mar 2012 #112
Bluerthanblue Mar 2012 #209
L0oniX Mar 2012 #222
Solomon Mar 2012 #307
bluestate10 Mar 2012 #10
spanone Mar 2012 #11
Jumping John Mar 2012 #12
L0oniX Mar 2012 #19
EOTE Mar 2012 #113
L0oniX Mar 2012 #153
niyad Mar 2012 #16
L0oniX Mar 2012 #24
niyad Mar 2012 #35
L0oniX Mar 2012 #76
EOTE Mar 2012 #114
L0oniX Mar 2012 #147
MattBaggins Mar 2012 #150
.99center Mar 2012 #87
L0oniX Mar 2012 #96
EOTE Mar 2012 #115
L0oniX Mar 2012 #154
TheWraith Mar 2012 #17
USArmyParatrooper Mar 2012 #21
L0oniX Mar 2012 #29
Booster Mar 2012 #90
L0oniX Mar 2012 #95
shadowrider Mar 2012 #101
EOTE Mar 2012 #116
shadowrider Mar 2012 #121
EOTE Mar 2012 #125
pokerfan Mar 2012 #188
Zanzoobar Mar 2012 #23
Lost-in-FL Mar 2012 #26
L0oniX Mar 2012 #31
Lost-in-FL Mar 2012 #41
L0oniX Mar 2012 #78
Lost-in-FL Mar 2012 #86
L0oniX Mar 2012 #179
.99center Mar 2012 #70
L0oniX Mar 2012 #79
Warren Stupidity Mar 2012 #27
L0oniX Mar 2012 #36
unapatriciated Mar 2012 #28
L0oniX Mar 2012 #84
EOTE Mar 2012 #117
L0oniX Mar 2012 #146
EOTE Mar 2012 #148
L0oniX Mar 2012 #155
DCBob Mar 2012 #30
L0oniX Mar 2012 #233
DCBob Mar 2012 #238
L0oniX Mar 2012 #318
Enrique Mar 2012 #33
L0oniX Mar 2012 #37
johnnie Mar 2012 #57
L0oniX Mar 2012 #59
Warren Stupidity Mar 2012 #44
L0oniX Mar 2012 #49
guitar man Mar 2012 #34
L0oniX Mar 2012 #38
EFerrari Mar 2012 #39
workinclasszero Mar 2012 #40
L0oniX Mar 2012 #55
bluestateguy Mar 2012 #42
Marrah_G Mar 2012 #47
L0oniX Mar 2012 #50
Enrique Mar 2012 #56
L0oniX Mar 2012 #63
Enrique Mar 2012 #65
L0oniX Mar 2012 #72
EOTE Mar 2012 #118
L0oniX Mar 2012 #156
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #197
cynatnite Mar 2012 #48
L0oniX Mar 2012 #62
arely staircase Mar 2012 #51
backscatter712 Mar 2012 #60
L0oniX Mar 2012 #64
backscatter712 Mar 2012 #92
L0oniX Mar 2012 #157
backscatter712 Mar 2012 #166
unionworks Mar 2012 #66
liberalhistorian Mar 2012 #67
L0oniX Mar 2012 #82
EOTE Mar 2012 #120
L0oniX Mar 2012 #130
EOTE Mar 2012 #132
L0oniX Mar 2012 #138
EOTE Mar 2012 #141
L0oniX Mar 2012 #159
barbtries Mar 2012 #110
CatWoman Mar 2012 #73
Hippo_Tron Mar 2012 #74
2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #77
L0oniX Mar 2012 #81
RZM Mar 2012 #83
L0oniX Mar 2012 #85
unionworks Mar 2012 #89
Lilyeye Mar 2012 #99
MrBig Mar 2012 #124
L0oniX Mar 2012 #187
unionworks Mar 2012 #213
MrBig Mar 2012 #235
MrBig Mar 2012 #236
L0oniX Mar 2012 #178
unionworks Mar 2012 #214
L0oniX Mar 2012 #217
ZombieHorde Mar 2012 #91
L0oniX Mar 2012 #162
Bluerthanblue Mar 2012 #215
L0oniX Mar 2012 #218
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L0oniX Mar 2012 #227
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Chan790 Mar 2012 #94
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cali Mar 2012 #100
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L0oniX Mar 2012 #169
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Initech Mar 2012 #167
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fascisthunter Mar 2012 #240
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Son of Gob Mar 2012 #248
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BeHereNow Mar 2012 #251
Son of Gob Mar 2012 #255
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BeHereNow Mar 2012 #269
Son of Gob Mar 2012 #288
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #289
L0oniX Mar 2012 #281
Aerows Mar 2012 #211
just1voice Mar 2012 #216
Rex Mar 2012 #241
L0oniX Mar 2012 #261
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The Midway Rebel Mar 2012 #252
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #254
Son of Gob Mar 2012 #256
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Marrah_G Mar 2012 #333
truedelphi Mar 2012 #343
elleng Mar 2012 #276
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #283
Son of Gob Mar 2012 #292
L0oniX Mar 2012 #317
Whisp Mar 2012 #293
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ScreamingMeemie Mar 2012 #302
sabrina 1 Mar 2012 #270
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sabrina 1 Mar 2012 #308
L0oniX Mar 2012 #332
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Son of Gob Mar 2012 #280
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BeHereNow Mar 2012 #298
Son of Gob Mar 2012 #301
L0oniX Mar 2012 #319
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #304
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #294
Grateful for Hope Mar 2012 #296
Son of Gob Mar 2012 #299
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #300
L0oniX Mar 2012 #323
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RetroLounge Mar 2012 #253
L0oniX Mar 2012 #266
Son of Gob Mar 2012 #267
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #271
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varelse Mar 2012 #312
MrMickeysMom Mar 2012 #324
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AngryOldDem Mar 2012 #342

Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:43 PM

1. Whatcha talking about?

Links please

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:42 AM

97. No, I think people only want to ARREST him not "hang" him. nt

 

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:43 PM

2. So you don't think Zimmerman put that bullet in an unarmed kid?

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:44 PM

4. So you don't need a trial to decide who did what?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:48 PM

14. LOonix you lose this argument.

Even the cops agree that the 28-year-old shot the gun and the 17-year-old was unarmed.

In most states, Zimmerman would, at the very least, be out on bail awaiting trial at this point.

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Response to Bicoastal (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:00 PM

43. "argumnet"?

Ok in your world we don't need no stinking trial. You've made my case.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:02 PM

45. Yes, we need a stinking trial and I explicitly said so. You're being obtuse. nt

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:05 PM

52. You troll

He say's "be out on bail awaiting trial at this point" and some how you get that he doesn't want a trial

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Response to .99center (Reply #52)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:26 PM

172. "You troll?" Are you kidding me?

Please, tell me how that response is even remotely
appropriate to the post...
It doesn't even make sense and is disruptive and offensive in my judgement.

Just an "FYI."
BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #172)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:28 PM

327. Sure

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response. His response was "Ok in your world we don't need no stinking trial. You've made my case." in response to
"In most states, Zimmerman would, at the very least, be out on bail awaiting TRIAL AT THIS POINT." so his response would be seen as extraneous and I'd argue that his spell correction was used to get an emotional response since it was a clear mistype.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:04 PM

75. Did I miss something? Has Zimmerman been arrested and charged?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #43)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:34 AM

102. Not very bright are you?

What everyone here is asking for is a trial. Almost anyone in Zimmerman's shoes now would already have been arrested. We're pissed that he hasn't been arrested and the fact that feds needed to step in in order to get a trial. The whole premise of your OP is ridiculously flawed at best and bone-headedly stupid at worst.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #102)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:17 AM

131. I'm sure you and the mob that you are part of would just go ahead and hang him now.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #131)


Response to EOTE (Reply #134)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:27 AM

142. You obviously can't carry on a decent discusion but have decended into...

insults like some little kid in grade school. So tell me ...does it make you feel bigger and better?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #142)


Response to L0oniX (Reply #142)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:23 PM

170. Just did jury for an alert on your post L0oniX...

Unfortunately, for some reason my explanation did not appear,
so I am putting it forth here-

Upon examining the context of the post alerted on, it is clearly
a "neener-neener" alert. I vote leave it to discourage further
calls for a "Nanny Jury" as someone so aptly described it.
Completely juvenile alert.

Just wanted to tell you, I think you have shown incredible self
restraint in your thread, considering some of the ridiculous responses.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #170)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:32 PM

175. Indeed ...the "ridiculous responses" IMO are indicative of a mob mentality...

all the while not even addressing the original question "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #175)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:36 PM

177. I'll go you one further...

"Disruptive" is the word that comes to my mind.
As in deliberately.

I've lost count of how many responses I think should be alerted on.
Completely juvenile and certainly outside of the CS.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #177)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:51 PM

182. Thanks for your thoughtful responces.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #182)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:00 PM

186. Well, I don't know how much thought is required to see that

None of the disruptors have actually responded to your original
observation in any intelligent way what so ever.

Guess the bottom line for me is to learn how many
clearly disruptive posts have been allowed to stand.

What I see is people trying to attack you without
addressing or promoting productive dialogue about your ORIGINAL point.

Just throwing random shit out, meant to provoke arguments
and completely twisting your personal thoughts which, correct me if I am wrong,
were meant to invite discussion and debate, not chaos.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #186)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:14 PM

193. Unfortunatly this sort of thing is driving people away from DU.

I've gone on to other sites as well and see some of the old DU people on them. I come here for the news mostly. The one time I post it gets mob bombed. Even DU2 is more rational. Most of the discussions about DU on other sites revolve around this same issue ...that and blind political following irregardless of the truth. I hope Skinner does something about it.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #193)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:18 PM

345. WOW. People tell you how wrong you are and it is a MOB!?

Sad sad sad...you are a binary thinker or you just don't want to admit getting pwned in your own thread. Calling MOB is more proof that you have failuresaucse all over you!

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #43)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:18 PM

196. no, in George Zimmerman's world, there is no need for a trial, or even

proper legal procedure.

If George Zimmerman were subject to the kind of 'law' he chose to impose on Trayvon, he'd be the one who was dead. He was stalking a young man, armed with a weapon, for with no authority to do so. He didn't identify himself, or state any reason for doing what he was doing. He was the perp. in this situation. What did Zimmerman claim Trayvon was doing that was wrong? What crime was he committing while walking home on a rainy afternoon?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #43)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:09 AM

340. and ye shall know them by their spelling

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Response to Bicoastal (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:26 PM

68. If he'd been black and Trayvon white, you'd better believe

he'd certainly either be in jail or dead right now.

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Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #68)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:58 PM

185. That's a bit reframing as the question is: Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?

I wanted to address the problem with the part of the mob that doesn't seem to think a trial is even needed. Of course Zim should have been arrested and I believe he will be thanks to the part of the mob that is calling for just that. The phrase "innocent before proven guilty" some how gets lost. I believe that everyone should get a fair trial. The worst thing would be for an innocent person to be found guilty by a US court of law and executed. The media and some of the mob are making it almost impossible to get an unbiased jury.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:49 PM

15. So you don't need Zimmerman in custody or questioned for the trial?

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Response to .99center (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:06 PM

53. Is that what I said? Troll much?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #53)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:26 PM

69. It's an honest question

I'm just confused how we the sheep following this mob mentality get a trial without Zimmerman at the trial.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #53)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:35 AM

103. No, that would be you.

You're the one who's defending the status quo and speaking against the ones who consider this to be an outrage. That's more than trollish behavior. It's absolutely disgusting.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #103)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:19 AM

133. The irony of what you have said escapes you entirely.

I welcome your disgust.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #133)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:21 AM

136. I'm quite sure you don't know what irony is.

Because there is none to be found in my post. If you want to make yourself look a bit less foolish, I'd suggest learning what words mean before attempting to use them in conversation.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #136)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:29 AM

144. You can see the foolish in all the insults you've thrown at me...

like some little child that calls others names ....some people can't discuss things but prefer to insult because it doesn't take any thinking.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #144)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:32 AM

145. You know, the internet has tons of information available for you.

You're more than welcome to look up the word rather than changing the subject again. Although, with your intellect and ridiculous logical fallacies, I can understand why changing the subject looks so attractive to you.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #145)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:09 PM

152. I asked a question. "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

All of your responses and insults have not address that question ...and if you look you will see that a DU jury agrees that you can't carry on a decent discussion.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #152)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:49 PM

181. Frankly, I am amazed that more posts on this thread have not been hidden...

I've sent some alerts and see that previous alerts were sent
and juries voted to let the posts stand.
Maybe people need to review the CS before they
accept jury duty.

BHN

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Response to .99center (Reply #15)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:30 PM

174. Where and when did the OP say that?

I find your contributions on this thread to be somewhat questionable, as far
as your motives are concerned.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #174)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:54 PM

314. No where in the OP

I was responding to a reply in the thread, are we not allowed to respond to the comment's? You seem to have this fantasy that the only one allowed to respond to comment's left in this OP is the original starter of the thread. My thought's are that this OP was created to muddy the Zimmerman case and he intended in no way to have a rational discussion, for example he avoids answering to his off topic comments by telling people to respond to the OP, like his comment isn't of any concern any longer. He's not even being coy about trolling, the first comment I responded to was when he accused a poster of not wanting a trial right after the person said he wanted a trial, is that a rational discussion in your eye's? And to question my motives and others while praising the OP make your motives also a bit shady. One more thing, what do you believe calling out poster's and calling people's post garbage adds to a discussion, why not just hit alert if you don't have anything to add? Double standard much?

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Response to .99center (Reply #314)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:23 PM

325. What "muddies" the case is the mob hearsay, the media pile on and the injection of the race card.

You and the mob here don't seem to care if the US Court system presumes you to be guilty before you are proven innocent. You are either for a fair US court system and fair trial or not. Go ahead and continue to ignore the original question.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #325)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:47 AM

336. Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?

Yes, sometimes it depends on your social and/or economic status in most cases. And you'll never have a fair court system when those that are enforcing the law are breaking or not following the law. A fair trial for this case went out the window the day of Trayvons death, right about the time police let him go and started trying to get witness's to change their story's. Who's going to have more bearing in court, the police reports and testimony or the media which the juror's will be told to ignore?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:50 PM

18. The point is there was going to be NO further investigation.

Hence no chance of a trial. People want justice. What's wrong with that?

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Response to savalez (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:02 PM

46. Nothing wrong with justice as long as it comes from a court of law and not...

a mob.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #46)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:18 PM

80. You think maybe someone should've said that to Zimmerman?

He certainly took it upon himself to be judge, jury, and executioner. Even after he was specifically told to stop the pursuit.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:51 PM

22. Martin: Unarmed and shot dead. Zimmerman: Shooter.

Shooter who GOT OUT OF HIS CAR TO INITIATE THE INCIDENT.

Victim heard asking attacker why attacker was following him.

Attacker's ass needs to be in jail awaiting trial, where he would hopefully be found guilty as he obviously is.

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:52 PM

25. Do we put someone in jail because the public thinks he's guilty?

That's a new one on me. Why not save us some taxpayer $ and skip the trial altogether, since it's just a formality.

We don' need no stinkin' investigation and trial.

Anticipating your possible question, yes I think he's guilty of maybe negligent homicide or something like that. Maybe manslaughter. I don't know the clear distinction of those things in Florida. Do I think he went after the kid to kill him? I haven't seen or heard anything to indicate that. I think a lot of people don't know the legal differences between the different kinds of homicide.

But I hope they don't throw someone in jail because I think he's guilty of a crime. I'm not a jury.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:54 PM

32. No. We conduct a PROPER investigation, arrest suspects, and put them on trial

when it's indicated. We don't simply accept the shooter's statement that he was completely justified, particularly when witnesses say otherwise.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:07 PM

54. Ding Ding Ding ...someone gets it.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #54)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:44 PM

88. Well, you certainly don't get it. Read that post again - none of that was done.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #54)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:55 PM

184. Ding,Ding,Ding,

my ass! Some of the evidence is missing from the case. blood test,urine samples,etc from zimmerman. Was this fair to Trayvon...

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Response to butterfly77 (Reply #184)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:24 PM

201. Your "ass" as you put it has not addressed the question.

"Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #201)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:30 PM

204. Only if you have...

the right skin color and money. In this case he is not but,most likely will get a jury with people like you who know he is guilty but with say he is innocent.

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Response to butterfly77 (Reply #204)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:43 PM

206. So now I am saying Zim is innocent? WOW Put words into peoples mouths much?

The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" Did you want to discuss that? If not WTF are you responding for?

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:13 PM

61. Exactly.

He needs to be put on trial.

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Response to Mojorabbit (Reply #61)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:14 AM

107. First, there needs to be a full investigation, and an indictment handed down.

Then, if there's enough evidence, he goes to trial.

THINKING someone is guilty is different from PROVING it. I think there's enough evidence, personally, but I'm not familiar with all the evidence. No one is. A full investigation hasn't been done yet. Which is shameful.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:47 PM

71. You're busting the narrative here

 

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:54 PM

223. Droning unarmed kids is no better.

Just saying.

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Response to girl gone mad (Reply #223)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:21 PM

231. Not pertaining to the op question but ...add the soldier who killed 16 Afgans.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:44 PM

3. Who?

I see folks just want him charged with an apparent crime.
And when found guilty, then hang him.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:45 PM

5. we all want him arrested

this would be a good thread for you to self-delete.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:46 PM

8. Net nanny much?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:45 PM

6. No, I want to see him arrested now rather than wait for the authorities in FL to lose interest.

Is that really so hard to grasp? It's not the crime that infuriates me so much as the aftermath.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:46 PM

7. That is not what it looks like to me.

It looks like people want justice. An arrest. Questioning. A trial.

There was someone already hung here. An innocent child.

Edit to add: you might want to take the advise given up thread to self delete your OP. It would be a good choice, imo.

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Response to Control-Z (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:48 PM

13. "innocent" So you have all the facts then ...right?

I have a beef with those who think they know it all without a professional law enforcement investigation.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:51 PM

20. Yep.

Unarmed and clearly not a threat. But he's dead so he can't defend himself.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:02 AM

93. Well LooniX, that has been the problem

There was no "professional law enforcement investigation" until this story gained national attention and the public outrage ensued...and rightly so. What I see here is a part of that effort to make sure a proper investigation is done. Trayvon has been dead for nearly a month. It's time for some goddamn answers AND action on this case.

I've been following the threads on DU regarding this story and I can't think of one DU'er suggesting a hanging occur. If I had seen something like that, I certainly would have alerted...oh wait, you have the fucking word in your OP suggesting we DU'ers are ready to hang someone. I'll call anyone on this type of bullshit and your use of that word at this particular time, is completely inexcusable.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:12 AM

111. Yes, are you really so daft as to not realize this?

The facts are he was carrying skittles and some tea and tried to avoid Zimmerman as much as possible. There is ZERO doubt as to his innocence and you're pretty damned idiotic not to see that.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #111)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:46 AM

123. I think the OP's point is

That you're basing your knowledge of the facts off of the media, a highly questionable source. Your use of absolutes in your post indicate you are accepting some of the reports as truth and others as false, because both sides have presented "evidence" claiming both that the shooting was cold blooded murder and that the shooting was a justifiable use of self-defense.

Clearly this case has been mangled by the investigators and, based on what has been reported, George Zimmerman deserves to be behind bars awaiting trial.

However, my understanding of the point of this thread is that, none of us really has first hand knowledge of the facts of the case. Other than the 911 calls, all other evidence has been through second or third or fourth hand sources.

Of course had a proper investigation been done at the time, this whole guessing game wouldn't be necessary.

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Response to MrBig (Reply #123)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:55 AM

126. There are plenty of absolutes in this case.

First is that Zimmerman was pursuing an UNARMED KID because he thought that he looked suspicious.

Second is that Zimmerman confronted this unarmed kid who had done nothing worthy of confrontation.

Third is that Zimmerman killed this unarmed kid after confronting him.

Those are undisputed facts.

The calls for justice are based upon these facts, not by some mysterious liberal media that just love convicting white people. Give me a fucking break.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #126)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:09 AM

128. Well, fact 2 is in dispute

Not by me mind you, but rather Zimmerman himself claims the kid confronted Zimmerman.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/15/2696446_p2/trayvon-martin-case.html

But to say it is undisputed would be wrong.

The point of this isn't to support Zimmerman or to say he doesn't deserve to be behind bars awaiting trial right now. The point is to say that none of us were there. We don't know the facts. We know what has been reported to be the facts. There have been PLENTY of instances where the "facts" reported were completely off base. The Atlanta Olympics bomber comes to mind.

The fact that Zimmerman admits shooting the unarmed kid, and the 911 calls on top of that, lead me to question why an arrest has not been made. That seems to be enough indisputable evidence to lead at least to an arrest.

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Response to MrBig (Reply #128)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:12 AM

129. Figure that, the cold blooded killer doesn't want to paint himself as a cold blooded killer.

All the witnesses who were anywhere near say that Trayvon was screaming and trying not to get killed, but let's believe the fucker who went out searching for someone to kill and somehow managed to find one. Christ. Enough facts are known to say without a doubt that Zimmerman should be behind bars awaiting trial for his murder one charge.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #129)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:19 AM

134. That does mean it is a disputed fact

And that's the point of this whole thing. There are facts in dispute. Hence, the need for a full investigation to get undeniable evidence that would support Zimmerman's conviction.

My cursory understanding of criminal law is, since Zimmerman admitted to killing Trayvon, the burden would be on Zimmerman to prove that the shooting was justified, which given the evidence I've been made aware of, seems like it would be extremely difficult to prove.

I do agree with your last sentence.

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Response to MrBig (Reply #134)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:22 AM

139. Enough facts are known for Zimmerman to be in jail awaiting a murder one charge.

That is what people here are demanding and it's a damned good thing that they are. That is why the OP is so ridiculous.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #139)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:46 AM

149. I pretty much agree

I don't know Florida's murder statute but my personal belief is that Mr. Zimmerman should at least be charged with the highest degree of murder, though I understand that it will probably depend on what can be proven.

I think the OP completely exaggerated an attempt to discuss the idea that people are coming to their own conclusions based on media reports and are using those reports to determine what the facts are, when some of the facts are still in dispute (hence the need for a more thorough investigation). None of us were there that night. All we can base our opinions on are what we believe to be the facts. Personally, I don't like using eyewitness testimony. Given what Zimmerman has said and the 911 calls, I tend to believe there is enough to try him for murder.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #126)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:22 PM

232. Also undisputed

is that Zimmerman was pursuing an UNARMED KID that he thought looked suspicious because he was BLACK. Thought I would clarify that first point. The rest is spot on.

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Response to MrBig (Reply #123)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:45 PM

208. +1

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:46 PM

9. Really? Because we think he should have been arrested (and his gun confiscated for inspection?)

Because many think the local LE should likewise be investigated and to have no influence on the broader investigation? Because many of us are doubting the state AG (and now the special AG's) ability to launch an unbiased investigation after all the back and forth? Because we think this should be a Federal investigation that includes civil rights violations and may well need to include investigation for possible "hate crime" ?

Really? I think that sounds like a demand for DUE PROCESS, myself.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:11 PM

58. I am all for an arrest and investigation. I am not for "guilty before proven so".

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #58)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:14 AM

112. That's all that people here have been asking for.

And people expressing their own opinions about his guilt or innocence has NOTHING to do with the standard of proof and presumption of innocence, you are aware that's a legal term, right? We can say whatever the hell we want about Zimmerman and that does NOTHING to negate his presumption of innocence. In fact, Zimmerman was basically declared innocent from the get go. I've never seen such ignorance on a subject before.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #58)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:51 PM

209. no one here is stalking George Zimmerman with a loaded weapon.

I'd like to hear you express some outrage at how George Zimmerman chose to find Trayvon Martin guilty without allowing HIM a trial.

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Response to Bluerthanblue (Reply #209)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:53 PM

222. The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

I think you already answered that so what is the point of going off on other things in this thread.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #222)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:00 PM

307. Trayvon was.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:47 PM

10. What the fuck are you writing about?

If it is the Trayvon Martin situation, all people are asking is that a thorough investigation of the circumstances of Martin's death be done. You can stick your head back in it's resting place.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:47 PM

11. i think folks want the process of justice to move forward...accused, arrested, trial...etc.

haven't seen anyone advocating a hanging

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:47 PM

12. Seems you should ask that of G Zimmerman as far as the value of Mr Martin's innocence is concerned.

 

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Response to Jumping John (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:50 PM

19. So we don't need a trial or jury then huh ...as you said...

"ask that of G Zimmerman as far as the value of Mr Martin's innocence"

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #19)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:16 AM

113. Very poor reading skills, he didn't say that at all.

I'm pretty sure you know that, though, don't you? Either you're being obtuse, or you're even less bright than I imagined.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #113)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:12 PM

153. Irony still escapes you.

I asked the question: Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore? ...and that question was in relation to the title. Sure you are free to be part of the mob and find him guilty without a trial. I hope you are never called up for jury service.

Talk about "poor reading skills".

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:49 PM

16. please provide a link showing anyone saying that zimmerman should be hung, sans trial--

everything I have seen indicates that people want due process--you know, investigation, arrest, etc.

and, since zimmerman is claiming self-defense, he has admitted killing an unarmed child (and before you kvetch, legally, a 17 year old is a CHILD)

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Response to niyad (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:52 PM

24. Well that would be nice except for that it seems many are using this to go off on an anti gun rant.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #24)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:56 PM

35. ah, since your original statement has been successfully challenged, you are switching themes?

nice try, but the posters on this board are not that oblivious.

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Response to niyad (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:04 PM

76. "successfully challenged" LOL

If anything the pile on here is every bit of evidence of the mob mentality.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #76)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:17 AM

114. No, it's evidence of your piss poor logic skills.

Most people here are nowhere near as stupid as you'd like them to be. You'd have to be ungodly dumb to fall for any of your arguments.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #114)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:35 AM

147. ...and your "mob" logic is not a piss poor skill?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #76)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:51 AM

150. Attack others and then play the victim

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #24)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:43 PM

87. Reframe much?

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Response to .99center (Reply #87)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:30 AM

96. Not at all. Rather it is you who are trying to reframe. Nice try though.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #96)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:18 AM

115. No, it was you who said that people are using this tragedy to try to hang Zimmerman.

When people called you out on that and you could find ZERO evidence of any such statement, you then try to change the argument to that people are now trying to use this tragedy as an anti-gun statement. That is dumb. You are wrong on all counts.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #115)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:15 PM

154. The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

Is there some valid point you are trying to make ...other than your grade school insults?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:50 PM

17. Probably 95 times out of 100 I would agree with you.

Case in point, I and others here took a lot of heat from taking that position on the Duke "rape" case, only to be completely vindicated when it fell apart.

That said, there is a point when it becomes difficult to suspend your disbelief. Given that this is a discussion forum and not a courtroom, I'm not going to blame anyone who does feel that way, at least right now.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:51 PM

21. WRONG.

What we want is an arrest and a trial.

- Zimmerman pursued HIM.
- It was a small, skinny kid "verses" (if you can call it that) a 250 pound man with a 9 mil.
- In one of the 911 tapes you hear the kid screaming for his life.

If that doesn't scream probable cause I don't know what does.

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Response to USArmyParatrooper (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:53 PM

29. Normally anyone using a gun in Florida for self defense will be arrested until enough is known.

I believe Zim should have been arrested.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:58 PM

90. NOW you get it.

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Response to Booster (Reply #90)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:27 AM

95. Now?

Apparently you don't get it. Mob rules!

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Response to USArmyParatrooper (Reply #21)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:25 AM

101. "Small, skinny kid". A correction

Martin was 6'3" and played football. He's far from the "small, skinny kid" that's being reported.

FWIW, Zimmerman should have been arrested for his actions. Whether or not he's found guilty, and for what specific crime, is left to a courthouse jury who will have access to far more facts than we have here.

I'm reserving judgment until those facts are in. I'm not a member of the "Hang him then give him a fair trial" bunch.

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Response to shadowrider (Reply #101)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:21 AM

116. 140 lbs and 6'3" is undoubtedly skinny.

Just because he's tall doesn't mean that he'd have the means to defend himself against someone more than 100 lbs heavier and with a gun. Nobody is suggesting that Zimmerman be hanged, that's a strawman and YOU KNOW IT. They're suggesting that he be arrested, as he sure as hell should have been and as you believe as well. Try injecting a little honesty into your arguments.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #116)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:31 AM

121. Read again. He weighed more than 140.

I never suggested he had the means to defend himself. If anything, Zimmerman should be in jail and why he isn't is a question for Sanford P.D.

All I simply pointed out is he was a larger individual than the media is portraying. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

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Response to shadowrider (Reply #121)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:53 AM

125. Every report that I've read said he weighed 140 lbs.

If you have information suggesting otherwise, provide it.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #125)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:02 PM

188. the police report says 160

which is still a little on the skinny side with average 6 foot males falling between 160 to 195 lbs and certainly not the 6-4, 240 full-back the Freepers have inflated the numbers to.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin%20Lakes%20Shooting%20Initial%20Report.pdf

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:52 PM

23. At least some of us agree.

 

Hang him.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:52 PM

26. Since Zmann put a bullet first rather than speaking to the kid...

I don't know, maybe it would be a good idea to at least detain this guy and find out what really happen?

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Response to Lost-in-FL (Reply #26)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:54 PM

31. Certainly ...but I have been seeing a lot of mob mentallity going on here and other places.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #31)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:59 PM

41. I wouldn't blame people for being this upset. Easy to take it lightly...

when one's kid is not the one getting shot for carrying skittles by a 'chicken-little-mall-cop' idiot that needed not to have a gun permit to begin with.

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Response to Lost-in-FL (Reply #41)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:12 PM

78. The rule of law is nothing to take lightly ...the cops seem to have messed up on this one.

Tell me this though ...if this does go to trial where could that trial be with a jury that is unbiased? Thanks to the mob mentality and media presumption of guilt they will have a hard time finding an unbiased jury.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #78)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:42 PM

86. The problem here is that the Internet/media are much quicker/slappier than our

...human made court system. Lots of people get exasperated and it is how this mob mentality you speak about commences.

However, this is the first time in my life where I have seen the police letting go of a person carrying a warm gun, and with blood in his clothing with a corpse that is still warm... based solely on the statement given by the person calling 911 and whom ignored when he was told to leave the person alone, w/o considering witnesses (there are 3), and a 911 call that was made.

Do you think the police made a fair/impartial assessment of this event?
Have you heard of something like this before?
Do you think that this case would be brought through a fair investigation have the media/networking not been involved?

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Response to Lost-in-FL (Reply #86)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:47 PM

179. The original question is "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

...but to give you my opinion and or answers to your questions...

1 The police should have arrested him and time spent to discover evidence that could move it to a trial.
2 I have not heard of this happening before. My CWP instructor said that I can expect to be arrested for at least 24 hours if I use my gun for self defense. I would expect the same for anyone else.
3 "If" Zim were to have been arrested before all the media and mob got involved I believe that if the case were to go to trial he may have a fair trial. As it is now the trial would have to be moved to some other locale and to find a jury that has not been tainted by the media would be very hard to do IMO.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #31)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:31 PM

70. Like the NRA?

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Response to .99center (Reply #70)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:12 PM

79. Reframe much?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:53 PM

27. your message is bullshit.

Dear Jury: I am attacking the message, not the messenger.

Nobody is calling for anyone to hang anyone. The only thing resembling a lynching was what the vigilante sociopath Zimmerman did to the unfortunate Martin.

We would like Zimmerman to be arrested and charged with murder, and we would like these stupid sociopath enabling ALEC sponsored Stand Your Ground laws to be repealed.

Gun enthusiast commits vigilante murder of black kid. Opponents of infantile cowboy culture gun infatuation are in an uproar about said murder, so accuse opponents of wanting to lynch the murderer. Nice play. Classic.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #27)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:56 PM

36. Your observation is looking thru bull shit. Apparently you are not seeing the mob mentallity...

going on that is assigning guilt before a trial. Of course Zim should have been arrested.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:53 PM

28. I would settle for an arrest.

Because there was not even an investigation many are outraged and rightly so.
The only reason the authorities are even looking into it now is because of the public outcry.

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Response to unapatriciated (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:34 PM

84. So would I. I only have a problem with the mob finding him guilty before a trial.

I think he was wrong as well but that is only my opinion. I would not find him guilty because of my own judgment or opinion. If anyone is guilty to start with it is the police for not arresting him and investigating the situation.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #84)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:24 AM

117. Silly you, you're not aware that a mob won't be deciding his fate.

You seem to think that people expressing their opinions on the internet will prevent Zimmerman from receiving a fair trial. It's OK though, I'm trying to teach my 6 year old daughter about our legal system, she's having trouble too.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #117)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:34 AM

146. Maybe you should teach her why trials have to be moved to another local.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #146)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:39 AM

148. I assume you mean 'locale', given that 'local' is an adjective?

No sweat, that's a toughie!

And yes, I've actually discussed with her changes of venue. And what's kind of hilarious as to you bringing that up is that if anyone would want a change of venue here, it's the defense as the people of Sanford are far more inclined to protect Zimmerman than the country in general.

Of course, none of what you said, irrelevant to the point as it is, has anything to do with your original OP. Which remains unmitigated bullshit.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #148)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:20 PM

155. You've made your point ...you have found him guilty without a trial.

BTW have you answered the question that I started with? "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" I guess your answer is no.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:54 PM

30. How about just having a trial?

At the moment the killer is totally free and clear... no charges, no trial, nothing.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #30)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:24 PM

233. ...and that relates to the question how?

The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" Most people in here are part of a mob that may have esteem issues and so has to devolve into insulting. Here's a question related to the original question: What if our court system had no presumption of innocence?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #233)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:34 PM

238. You clearly arent comprehending the issue.

Most people simply want the guy to be charged with something so an investigation can proceed and eventually a trial. When someone is killed and the killer and weapon are identified usually there is an investigation and a trial.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #238)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:59 PM

318. You clearly missed the actual question I originally asked.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:55 PM

33. you're shooting your mouth off, but you are utterly ignorant of the basic facts of the story

the whole controversy is that he is NOT being placed on trial.

But in your ignorance you say that people DON'T want him to be put on trial.

Read a news story once in a while.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #33)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:57 PM

37. Maybe you haven't noticed the mob mentallity ...I can't help you see it.

Maybe you are just ignorant of it.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #37)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:11 PM

57. The mob mentallity is typical here

Just read the posts on your thread.

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Response to johnnie (Reply #57)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:12 PM

59. LOL ...even a jury could see that.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #33)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:01 PM

44. The argument of the OP is classic "turn the tables" bullshit. nt

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #44)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:04 PM

49. ...and your argument is what? ...we don''t need a court of law to find Zim guilty? Nice!

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:55 PM

34. Nope

I want him arrested and charged, then sent to trial. First we need an arrest, it's been almost a month and he's still roaming free.

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Response to guitar man (Reply #34)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:58 PM

38. So do I.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:58 PM

39. Yes, people are really, really angry.

This is what happens when the police fail to do their job.

When they arrest him and put him in jail to await trial, people will calm down.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:59 PM

40. The self admitted KILLER has not even been arrested!

How the f*** is there going to be a trial to determine guilt when the shooter is not under arrest and in jail???

And there is no question that Zimmerman was the aggressor the whole time and also that it was a racial hate crime!

These FACTS are all on tape for the entire world to hear!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #40)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:09 PM

55. The "world" is not the judge and jury. I'm for an arrest at the least.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:59 PM

42. Innocent until proven guilty is a legal, courtroom standard

And I would not have it any other way.

Having said that. That does not mean the accused shall be free from criticism or that I do not enjoy the right to have an opinion about his guilt or innocence.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:02 PM

47. We want him arrested

Don't you?

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #47)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:05 PM

50. Of course I do ...like any other person that fires a gun for any reason in Florida.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #50)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:10 PM

56. you thought he was arrested didn't you

your comment about "waiting for a trial" makes it clear that you thought Zimmerman was in jail waiting for a trial. oops. apology time.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #56)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:15 PM

63. You could spend all day here reading into things and trying to reframe couldn't you.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #63)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:20 PM

65. that sounds like an apology

apology accepted.

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Response to Enrique (Reply #65)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:52 PM

72. You must be smoking something.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #63)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:26 AM

118. Everyone knows that you're fully ignorant of this subject.

Of course you thought he was in jail. If you didn't, then you were damned stupid to go spouting off about people being so upset and wanting to hang him if they just wanted him arrested. It's a damned good thing that most people here are able to think things through unlike yourself.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #118)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:27 PM

156. and you have totally ignored the original question and have gone off on a knee jerk reaction and...

made every effort to insult me and tried to quash any real discussion here. You aren't helping DU with your childish insults. I find that most people defer to insults when they can't intelligently discuss the subject or in this case a question they disagree with.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #118)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:19 PM

197. I find your posts disruptive and offensive EOTE.

You have repeatedly twisted the purpose of the original
OP and insulted the author with some of the most disgusting
insults I have seen on DU in a LONG time.

You have provided NO meaningful or productive discussion, just a
tirade of projections and insults.

I can't believe more of your posts have not been hidden.
If I were you, I would be ashamed to think that the garage
you have posted on this thread is public.

BHN

I think you need to read the CS for DU before you continue to post.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:03 PM

48. I want a real investigation...

Not that five minute farce they called an investigation after Trayvon was gunned down.

Either the evidence will be enough for them to file charges or it won't. At the very least, there will be a civil suit against the man.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #48)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:14 PM

62. I want him arrested too. I know if I used my gun I would be arrested until the facts are known.

My cwp instructor told us to expect to be arrested and spend a night in jail if we had to use a gun for defense in a life threatening situation.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:05 PM

51. actually a trial would be nice

i assume you have signed the petition demanding such., since you want a trial and all.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:13 PM

60. Yeah, just a basic criminal investigation and trial would be nice.

The Sanford police wanted to simply pat Zimmerman on the back for killing an n***** standing his ground, and didn't feel like giving him anything resembling justice at all.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #60)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:20 PM

64. "police wanted to simply pat Zimmerman on the back for killing an n***"

Isn't that a bit over dramatic? Since when can you or anyone know what someone else is thinking or thought? I am for an arrest which is usually the norm ....and trial if the evidence calls for it.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #64)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:03 PM

92. So why do you think the Sanford police was so lackadaisical?

I'm sorry, but something smells. The Sanford police performed next to no investigation of the shooting at all, they just handed his gun back to him (which elsewhere in the country NEVER happens - even if it's an obvious self-defense shooting, the cops are gonna take your gun - it's evidence.)

If you ask me, I think the Sanford police were covering for Zimmerman.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #92)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:31 PM

157. I agree. The original question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

If the mob is all about Zim not being at least arrested so as to see if there is enough evidence to go to trial then I am fine with that. What I object to is people who decide someone is guilty without a trial.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #157)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:02 PM

166. I agree there - everybody has the right to due process.

My gripe is that it seems like the Sanford police didn't even try to give due process, but had decided to let this killing slide, possibly because of racist reasons.

It took a huge media shitstorm, followed by state and federal law enforcement stepping in, for Trayvon's killing to get the investigation it deserved.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:24 PM

66. "they always get away with it"

 

That's what Zimmerman said on the phone to the cops before he grabbed his gun, ran Martin down and singlehandedly lynched him. Thought you got away with it, didn't you, Zimmerman? Shows just how wrong a murderous bigot really is....

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:24 PM

67. Well, I certainly agree with innocent before proven guilty and I agree

that everyone, no matter who it is or what they're accused of, deserves a fully fair trial which they're entitled to under the constitution. And that includes George Zimmerman.

The problem is that he actually has to be arrested and charged first for there to even be a trial, and that doesn't appear likely anytime soon. Then the fact that the dipshit incompetent racist indifferent disinterested police completely and totally botched what little "investigation" they did and the evidence at the scene makes a trial, much less a conviction, all the more difficult. Throw in the state's "murder with impunity"---ooopsie, I mean the "stand your ground" law may very well be invoked here and you have even more of a problem with any trial and conviction. Of course, with the police dept. protecting and defending him and acting as his defense counsel no matter what info comes out, the chances of his facing any legal trial at all seem pretty remote. It is very obvious that they are doing so in an attempt to cover their asses for their botched investigation, and are attempting to blame the victim (skittles bags are such dangerous weapons, you see, far more so than guns).

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Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #67)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:27 PM

82. IMO the "stand your ground" law is meant to be applied when confronting a criminal in your own home.

Maybe I am wrong but I know it used to be that you have to retreat as far back as possible in your own home before using deadly force. I don't know that the SYG law was intended to be applicable out in public. Certainly running from an armed robber at an ATM might get you shot so you might want to SYG and shoot them.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #82)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:28 AM

120. Yeah, and we all know how much your opinion counts in these matters. NT

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Response to EOTE (Reply #120)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:16 AM

130. Yep ...it is a discussion board ...even though you'd rather turn it into snipe.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #130)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:18 AM

132. You've been sniping from the get go.

Complaining that people far more informed on this issue (and far, far less ignorant) are demanding justice. You know extremely little about this, in fact, just about everything you purport to know is wrong. But it's really not all that unusual to see those screaming the loudest being the most clueless about something. It's just that your arrogance combined with your ignorance is truly something astounding to behold.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #132)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:21 AM

138. You obviously aren't interested in any kind of discussion...

so what does that make you?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #138)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:24 AM

141. Says the person who thinks that demanding justice where there is none

is the same thing as calling for someone to be hung. You'll just have to accept the fact that this level of conversation is well above you. Your logical ability is incredibly lacking and nearly everyone sees it. You're incredible with projection as well, when you realized that you know nothing about this case, you try to change the subject to gun control. Then when others chime in, you accuse THEM of derailing the conversation. Truly, children are typically more honest and intelligent in their debates.

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Response to EOTE (Reply #141)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:34 PM

159. LOL ...and you have yet to actually adress the original question but have devolved into insults.

Since you haven't yet noticed yet the original question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

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Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #67)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:32 AM

110. best post in this thread nt

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:59 PM

73. yes I do

any other questions?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:02 PM

74. I wouldn't say a lot of people, but I'd say this person does...

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:06 PM

77. I am not a court of law. I can and will say whatever the hell I want.

He's so guilty it isn't even funny. That's a fact, I have the right to state that fact, I will keep on stating that fact and whoever tells me I shouldn't state that fact can take a long walk off a short pier.

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Response to 2ndAmForComputers (Reply #77)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:22 PM

81. No one has said you can't say what you want. If anything a lot of people object...

to me saying what I want. As far as facts go I will accept what a court of law determines the facts are.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:33 PM

83. What you're talking about here isn't really about this case at all

 

It's about the 24-hour news cycle and political message board culture.

DU had decided that it's going to talk about Trayvon 24-7 for a while. That's fine and it's natural. It's pretty much par for the course now. This board gets ahold of a topic and shakes it until nothing else can come out of it, much as MSM outlets do, because like them, we have 24 hours a day to fill.

When you're talking about something nonstop, eventually you run out of things to say. Just look at the cable news pundits and the Republican primaries. They are pretty much done with the analysis and this even comes out into the open sometimes when they are forced to talk about it for hours on end.

Most of DU thinks Zimmerman is guilty of a crime and should be charged. With the absence of new evidence but 24 hours a day to fill, what happens is that people end up saying 'he's guilty' over and over and over. And when that happens, you do get kind of a mob effect, or at least something that looks like a mob. But it's less insidious than it seems. Because in the end, this isn't real life, it's the internet. Nobody here will have any bearing on what actually happens.

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Response to RZM (Reply #83)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:40 PM

85. Agree'd.

When people decide that others are guilty before a trial it can become a dangerous situation. It wouldn't be the first time that an accused person gets shot before a trial. On the other side for that matter we know that innocent people are executed after being tried and sentenced in a court of law.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #85)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 10:53 PM

89. if the races were reversed

 

...if Martin were a white kid with no problem ever with the law shot by a black man, you'd see a mob, as you call those legallly and peacefully assembling to demand justice. Spare us the bullshit.

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Response to unionworks (Reply #89)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:31 AM

99. Exactly.

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Response to unionworks (Reply #89)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:52 AM

124. Except Zimmerman wasn't a white man n/t

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Response to MrBig (Reply #124)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:01 PM

187. Indeed. It kind of invalidates the reframing going on ...trying to make it a B/W race thing.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #187)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:17 PM

213. most of the 49 times

 

Zimmerman called the copsit was about "suspicious black people" who "always get away with it". You don't have to be white to be a bigot.

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Response to unionworks (Reply #213)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:26 PM

235. Exactly

I agree that Traymon's skin color is the primary reason Zimmerman did what he did. His actions were bigoted to say the least. I think some people, in discussing this topic, are getting carried away and making this into a larger black vs. white discussion when, to put it simply, this is yet another case of racism against a young black man regardless of the skin color of the perpetrator.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #187)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:28 PM

236. I agree

I think this issue is being made into a larger black vs. white issue that isn't necessarily present here. I do believe that race is an issue in this case and the actions of Zimmerman reflect discrimination against young black men.

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Response to unionworks (Reply #89)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:40 PM

178. Nice reframe. Was there anymore "bullshit" you wanted to say or would you accually like to ...

discuss and or answer the original question: "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #178)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:24 PM

214. you are taking

 

99% of the flack on this thread, not me, pal. I repeat - the thousands of people legally and peacefully assembling to demand justice are not a "mob", as you call them, nor are the people on D.U. doing the same. Most are calling for a trial and a change of a horrible law. If that bursts your "I am the masked avenger with a six shooter" fantasies, SO MUCH THE BETTER! I believe in the right to own and carry a gun legally. I also believe the law as it was requiring taking any available retreat before resorting to violence in self defence was the right way to go. Removing that requirement caused this tragedy. So now it's going to get fixed.

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Response to unionworks (Reply #214)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:39 PM

217. Were you going to address the question or go off on a rant about something else?

The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:01 PM

91. I am not so sure that is a fair accusation.

Many DUers do want to see him get charged and arrested, but that is very different than hung without a trial.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #91)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:48 PM

162. From what I have seen it looks like a large amount of people have already found him guilty.

I want to see him arrested and the evidence looked at and then a trial if the evidence calls for it. The original question which most seems to have missed was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" I was only observing the mob mentality going on concerning his presumed guilt. What scares me more is the possibility that someone innocent can be found guilty and executed.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #162)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:30 PM

215. "What scares me more is the possibility that someone innocent can be found guilty and executed."

that has already happened to a young man by the name of Trayvon Martin.

That reality, for some reason doesn't seem to disturb you much at all.

Why is that?

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Response to Bluerthanblue (Reply #215)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:43 PM

218. More reframing ...nice. So you don't care if someone on death row is innocent.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #218)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:46 PM

220. reframing?

have a look in the mirror.

A man is dead. can't get much more disturbing than that. What crime was he convicted of to cause the death sentance he recieved?

You don't seem to care much about Trayvon Martin. Why is that?

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Response to Bluerthanblue (Reply #220)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:12 PM

227. More reframing.

The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" "You don't seem to care much about Trayvon Martin. Why is that?" That is not the issue however you may want it to be. I asked a question and you seemingly only want to reframe and change the discussion and accuse me of bull shit. Are you a DU member who wants to discuss things cause it sure doesn't look like it to me. I thought this was a discussion/news board not a play ground for the low esteemed insult party.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #227)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:13 PM

243. you claim to want discussion,

but your replies don't demonstrate that. Whenever anyone puts your perspective to the test, you cry "reframe" and simply repeat the same tired question over again.

Yes, the vast majority of responders have said we want justice to be meeted out not by the media, or by a vigilante, but by our justice system- which would require that George Zimmerman be arrested, and would likely include a trial for his participation in the untimely death of a 17yr old named Trayvon Martin. The fact that he was not treated the way one would normally treat a person responsible for the death of another, is very troubling, but does NOT mean that Mr. Zimmerman should be excecuted without the benefit of a fair trial. Despite the fact that he chose not to allow the person he shot to have that same right.

You seem to be playing word games in some kind of quest to do what? As for insults, you are pretty adept at throwing a few of them around yourself- if you don't like them, you shouldn't be throwing them around either. What news or discussion are YOU contributing on this thread- can you point out some on this thread that actually addresses the issue of innocence until proven guilty which isn't narrowly defined by your perspective that it only seems to apply where YOU deem it should? What about Trayvons innocence? Why is that NOT germaine to this discussion???

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Response to Bluerthanblue (Reply #243)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:35 PM

263. You are obviously not in this for a discussion on the question.

You don't get it or you can't read. Since you don't want to discuss issues revolving around "innocent before proven guilty" you are not worth responding to anymore.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #263)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:44 PM

268. What are the issues that aren't being addressed? I can read

quite well thank you. You obviously aren't getting YOUR point across as evidenced by all the replies in which you claim people "just don't get it".

Sorry that you have chosen to refuse to try and make your point clearly enough for others to 'get it'.

Reframe this any way that makes you happy.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:06 AM

94. Hung? no. It'd be nice if they'd arrest or charge him.

I don't think that's too much to ask, that the man who shot an unarmed 17 year old be compelled to defend him actions in a court of law rather than be praised and defended by the police in the community where the crime occurred.

Before there can be justice, there has to be an arrest. The tape alone is grounds for an arrest warrant.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:30 AM

98. No, looks like a lot of people just want justice for a kid being dead.

Which equals to an arrest and a conviction if it comes to that. After-all, Zimmerman was going to be walking free until the public found out about the story and made their voices heard.

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Response to Lilyeye (Reply #98)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:06 PM

226. The op title was a statement ...the question is below.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:48 AM

100. FAIL. Gigantic fail.

No one wants to hang him. We want him arrested and we want a trial.

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Response to cali (Reply #100)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:36 PM

160. You FAILED to answer the questrion...

"Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #160)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:53 PM

163. your own question presumes guilt

of "a lot of people".....

who are you to speak for others?

Speak for yourself.

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Response to Bluerthanblue (Reply #163)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:14 PM

169. That's called a "statement" and it is my opinion and this is a place where...

subjects are discussed ...for some it is a snipe and insult party. Did you have an answer for the original question?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #169)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:08 PM

191. yes, I've posted it-

What kind of discussion are you trying to inspire by your question? You state your opinon of others- that they have chosen to condemn someone without benefit of a trial.

Did George Zimmerman not do that, and do FAR more than that by executing the person whom HE found 'not innocent'?

Are you asking HIM this quesion? or are you seeking to defend what he did?

If you want to avoid snipe- and insult, it's good not to engage in it yourself in my experience.

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Response to Bluerthanblue (Reply #191)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:21 PM

198. I see that you already have decided what Zim did. So I take it you are fine with...

guilty before proven innocent.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #198)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:44 PM

207. no, Zimmerman himself said he shot Trayvon.

He shot and killed him. That is the one indisputable fact that exists. A young man is dead. He is dead because George Zimmerman took it upon himself to carry a deadly weapon and to confront a young black male who he percieved to be 'suspicious' based on what? Have you heard the 911 tapes?

Mr. Zimmerman is the one who chose to decide that this young man wasn't innocent, because of what he looked like. Because he was walking casually in the rain, carrying an icetea and wearing a hoodie. He didn't NEED to do anything more than what he'd done, as a 'neighborhood' watch member. He'd called the police, they were responding. He had no reason/responsibility/ or authority to do anything except wait for the police to arrive. But this man made a clear choice to act on his own. And his decision resulted in a young man being shot to death. With a weapon owned by George Zimmerman. Where is your outrage for Trayvon's innocence? You seem to be willing to defend the man who admitted to killing an unarmed youth, and claiming that he is being unfairly treated- what about how Trayvon? He won't have the luxury of a trial, because of the actions of Zimmerman.
Zimmerman should not have walked away from this situation without a complete and thorough investigation. He should have been subjected to blood alcohol/drug tests and his background should have been looked into. That isn't too much to ask for when someone shoots and kills another person. Is it?

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Response to Bluerthanblue (Reply #207)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:46 PM

219. I'm not interested in a discussion on anything other than the question that I asked.

Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:42 AM

104. Was someone arrested?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)


Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:11 AM

106. I think you are confusing legal application and sentiment

I think you are confusing legal application of indictments, trials and sentencing with mere popular sentiment. You see, popular sentiment does not, and cannot condemn a man to guilt or innocence-- only a court of law may do that. Popular sentiment however, is simply the many different opinions of many different people-- which have no legal standing.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:26 AM

108. So, after being stalked and confronted, did this kid have a right to STAND HIS GROUND, if that

was the case? There are so many levels on which Zimmerman violated the law until it is difficult to equate innocent with his name.

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Response to mfcorey1 (Reply #108)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:01 PM

224. The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

The question is about anyone getting a fair trial in that there is supposed to be a presumption of innocence before being found guilty. If you want to discuss that I'm ok with that. The op was never about anything else however much you and many others want to not discuss that and instead go off on other rants and snipe and insults ....I suppose they will be happy when DU3 has no discussions anymore and is devolved into reframing, snipe and insults.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:23 AM

109. how about an ARREST?

he needs to be accused and to stand trial. what would you like to see happen? assume his innocence and let him get away with murder? there is a dead child in this case, it's not like there is no probable cause to arrest the man.

really, what would you like to see happen here?

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Response to barbtries (Reply #109)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:03 PM

225. How about you have a discussion over the original question?

"Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:26 AM

119. Wrong!

We want him to be arrested!

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:31 AM

122. No, it doesn't.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:00 AM

127. Ahh the old broad brush...

Been reading most of you replies throughout this thread...

And you're nothing more than an agitator with his fingers in his ears saying blah---blah---blah.

Silly silly boy.

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Response to trumad (Reply #127)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:39 PM

161. ...and are you adressing the original question?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:21 AM

137. gunz-uh

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #137)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:03 PM

278. Ayup. The denizens of the Gungeoun are in a panic.

They see Zimmerman as a huge problem for them.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:24 AM

140. what trial? he hasn't even been arrested?

what we want is justice and it seems that given the circumstances he should have been arrested by now and then he could stand in a court of law and try and prove his innocence. People have a right to express there feelings about the man not even being arrested for shooting an unarmed kid.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:00 PM

151. No. Vigilante "justice" is not our schtick. Not everyone thinks like GZ

and his defenders, who apparently believe that it is ok to act upon suspicion alone.

We want to see GZ arrested and the defense of his actions put under the scrutiny of the justice system.

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Response to PotatoChip (Reply #151)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:14 PM

229. Other than that ...did you want to discuss issues involving the question?

How about this ...what if there were no presumption of innocence in a US court?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:32 PM

158. looks like you think you can speak for others- as for me, I believe Zimmerman deserves a trial...

something he CHOSE to deprive Trayvon Martin. Whats more, he appointed himself, judge, jury and executioner.

Did Mr. Zimmerman even consider that Trayvon might be innocent? Not from the facts. Not from any part of the facts.

The only thing I hear lots of people calling for is an arrest and trial. Do you have a problem with that?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:56 PM

164. not when there's incontrovertible proof

zimmerman had the gun and treyvon is dead. zimmerman was harassing and following treyvon, not the other way around. zimmerman is a murderer who is trying to worm his way out on a legal (but reprehensible) technicality.

end of story.

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Response to elana i am (Reply #164)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:36 PM

176. original question: Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?

I guess you have found him guilty without a trial.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:59 PM

165. The Florida police decided that Zimmerman was SO innocent, that they did no investigation

of any kind.

How much more "innocent until proven guilty" does one get?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #165)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:24 PM

171. They would have to prove or have evidence that Zim was not in fear for his life.

That's a hard thing to do. If Zim provoked a confrontation and then had fear for his life he would be found guilty of some charge. He clearly should have been arrested so as to discover any evidence that would bring the matter to trial. What is the point of even having the statement "innocent until proven guilty" if it isn't the reality. IMO the mob doesn't care about that and would rather carry out an execution ...like some despot 3rd world country. The part of the mob that I am with is the part that is calling for at least an arrest.

See ...I have tried to have a reasonable discussion over the question I asked and most respondents haven't gone that route.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #171)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:13 PM

228. You almost get it right, then fail.

You correctly note that ... "He clearly should have been arrested so as to discover any evidence that would bring the matter to trial."

You seem to concerned about "the mob" ... the "mob" is pissed off because the police did not do what you agree they should have done.

He was not arrested. There was no investigation. They even let him take the gun used in the killing.

I would hazard a guess that an actual police officer who discharges their weapon receives more scrutiny.

Its clear that the local police screwed this up, but give the remaining evidence, that evidence that everyone agree to, this is probably a form of negligent or reckless homicide.




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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #228)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:19 PM

230. Instead of reframing how about we accually discuss things concerning the question?

The question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?". How about this ...what do you think our court system would be like if there were no presumed innocence? Should we abandon that premise and go for the guilty until proven innocent? See ...people could have a discussion here but the "mob" has taken over. Most miss the question and go on with whatever they want to attack with. DU3 is becoming a play ground for the low esteemed insult mob.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #230)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:37 PM

247. Our court system does not get involved when the police decide that the guy holding the

gun used to kill a teen, is innocent.

Do you miss that part of all this?

The Judicial System usually does not get to adjudicate the question of guilt or innocence if the police don't ARREST anyone.

Did you miss that part??

The "mob" you whine about has not "taken over" ... if they had, Zimmerman would already be executed.

The scary "mob" you whine about is demanding that the ADJUDICATION you refer to (the determination of guilt or innocence) actually takes place.

The Florida police were NOT going to allow such an adjudication. The scary "mob" you whine about is DEMANDING that such an adjudication take place.

I'm not sure which part of this you fail to understand.

Or is your point that DU3 members are WRONG for wanting a full accounting, an actual adjudication????

Is that your position?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #247)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:43 PM

329. An arrest was not part of the op. The question is. So how would you like to be on trial...

with a presumption of guilt before proven innocent? The DU mob has done everything they can to not discuss that. Do you expect a jury to be unbiased when they've been exposed to media hearsay? It is the function of the US court system to determine innocence or guilt ...not the mob or the media and not even the police. Of course Zim should have been arrested but that is not what my original question is about. The mob mentality in this thread has made a point concerning my statement in the title.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #329)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 07:01 PM

346. You still seem confused ... DU is not the US judicial system.

And neither is the media for that matter.

The US judicial system is REQUIRED to maintain an "innocent until proven guilty" stance.

DU and the Media are NOT REQUIRED to maintain that stance.

For example ... do YOU think OJ was Guilty? Yes or no?

Our Judicial system decided that it was not proven that he was guilty, but that does NOT stop me or you, or DU, or the "media" from say that we think he was guilty of murder.

See the difference yet?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:09 PM

167. What I want is SCOTUS to overturn these horrible stand your ground laws.

But I think that's a long shot. Again I say fuck the NRA - they're as much to blame for these laws as anybody.

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Response to Initech (Reply #167)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:27 PM

173. The intent of the SYG law is so that a home owner does not have to be backed into a corner...

before they can use deadly force, but that is another issue. The original question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #173)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:05 PM

189. You're confused

You've mixed up castle doctrine with this SYG law.

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Response to pokerfan (Reply #189)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:17 PM

195. I am? The original question was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?"

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #195)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:26 PM

202. Yes

This statement: "The intent of the SYG law is so that a home owner does not have to be backed into a corner..." indicates a conflation of Castle Doctrine and the Stand Your Ground laws. The SYG laws don't have anything to do with defending one's home. Recommend you take a break from trolling and do some reading.

As far as presumption of innocence, Of course! Zimmerman hasn't been arrested or charged with anything. How much more presumption of innocence do you need?

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Response to pokerfan (Reply #202)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:49 PM

221. Whatever ...if you want to find someone guilty before an arrest and trial that's your thing.

Apparently you wouldn't mind having everyone including the media having a part in tainting a jury.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #221)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:26 PM

234. WTF? Where did I say anything of the sort?

You have a bizarre way of framing the discussion.

Boring troll is boring.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #173)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:07 PM

190. I think you'll find most DUers wanted him arrested, not executed on site.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #173)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:23 PM

200. But I can imagine the law will be interpreted very differently in the trial.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:09 PM

168. an excellent question to pose to George Zimmerman at his trial for murder.


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Response to Bluerthanblue (Reply #168)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:51 PM

183. well said

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:49 PM

180. Not in this case..

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:10 PM

192. Yes. I do want to hang George Zimmerman right now. Actually, I want to imprison him forever.

That's because I'm anti-DP. Nonetheless, this is why I'm happy to live in a nation of laws. I can feel secure in blasting the racist POS killer, because I know he'll get a reasonably fair trial if he's indicted, irrespective of me personally wanting to do the man harm. So you see, we can all discuss George Zimmerman as much as we'd like without the need to register and start a site called PostConvictionUnderground.com.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:16 PM

194. ohreally? I haven't seen a single post stating that. Link?

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Response to yardwork (Reply #194)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:22 PM

199. The question "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" doesn't need a link.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:28 PM

203. THIS is why we need the unrec button...nt

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #203)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:34 PM

205. Yes, we need to discourage and eliminate ALL personal observations...

Let's completely NOT have a productive discussion and debate when
a member offers up a personal thought or possible topic for
dialogue.


Has everyone on DU lost their minds?
I could conclude so, given some of the responses on this thread.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #205)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:54 PM

210. The OP was neither productive or logical...

People see a crime committed...they want it prosecuted, which is different than wanting him hung withuot a trial...ncie try, though.

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #210)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:00 PM

212. Well thank you for clarifying what my perceptions should be.

I see the question as a philosophical one.
A question that in my world merits discussion, not just
as it relates to this case, but in general- on many levels
of society and how it evolves.

I find it productive and I would like to see a thoughtful
discussion on it.

If you do not, then why not hide it and allow others
to HAVE a discussion without attacking the OP?

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #212)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:53 PM

240. we see through the BS... sorry

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #240)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:01 PM

242. I would like you to elaborate what you mean.

If you don't mind.

What I see is a mob mentality that I find disgusting.

Please explain what it is you "see through."

BHN

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Response to fascisthunter (Reply #240)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:29 PM

244. Crickets...as I expected.

I will ask again.
What exactly is "it" you "see through?"

I'll tell you what I "see through..."

That your reply is just more of the same garbage on this thread.
Either back your insinuation up with what you mean to say or
be quiet.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #205)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:31 PM

237. With over 200 replies in this thread, you're the only one defending the OP

Yet you have the nerve to ask if everyone on DU has lost their minds. Look in the mirror.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #237)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:48 PM

239. Have you READ the replies?

99% of them are pure projection and disruption.
Very few address the PHILOSOPHICAL nature of the query of the OP.

Don't know how long you've been around DU, but there WAS
a time when a thoughtful conversation might have emerged
from the OP.

This thread does NOT reflect the CS of any community I recognize as DU.
It is a cesspool of ignorance and spite directed at the OP-
If I am the only one who finds that behavior disgusting, so be it.
I think it speaks volumes about the current participants of the board
and me.
I am proud of my position and ashamed for some of the posters
on this thread.
I will not let DU turn into a gutter of sludge as long as I participate.
When I see UGLY, I will call it- every time.
If I am alone in my wanting the board to reflect intelligent
and respectful discussion, I am comfortable with that.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #239)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:36 PM

246. You certainly know a thing or two about projection.

You want the board to reflect intelligent and respectful discussion yet you call this thread a cesspool of ignorance. That's rich.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #246)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:43 PM

249. I'm calling this thread, or what it has become, exactly what it is.

Please show me examples of how I am wrong, rather
than trying to deflect my observations back on me.

That technique is so very DU 2004.

Are you proud of what this thread reflects about the community?
I am not.
And I will not dignify it with any resemblance to intelligent and respectful
discussion.
It IS full of ignorance and hate.
And I for one, will not condone that behavior on DU.
If you feel the need to be swept along with the "mob"
then you are not thinking clearly about what I am saying-
You are just going along with the tide of muddy water.

BHN

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #237)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:33 PM

245. More crickets...

Please, try and defend some of the hateful and
personal attacks on this thread and then tell
me who has "lost their mind."

I know it's not me.
I know what I am seeing on this thread and it is
the WORST of DU.

It is embarrassing to watch.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #245)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:39 PM

248. Yes, your responses have been embarrassing.

I agree that this thread is the worst of DU. But that has more to do with you and the OP then anyone else.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #248)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:47 PM

250. WHAT? What did you just say?

That I and the OP are the worst of DU?
Exactly WHICH of my responses are embarrassing to you?
The ones where I point out the sheer UGLINESS of some of the posts here?

Boy, do you have you priorities messed up for the future of DU.

Again- SHOW me my posts that you consider the worst of DU?

BHN

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #248)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:54 PM

251. I don't believe for a minute that you have read this thread or my posts on it.

You are simply joining the Hate Fest and should be ashamed of yourself for it.
Again, I want you to share with me, and the rest of DU, my posts
on this thread that represent the "worst of DU."

Go ahead. DU it.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #251)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:17 PM

255. I don't know

All of them. Including this one I'm replying to.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #255)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:20 PM

257. No, you don't get to play that card... too vague.

If I am EVER to take you seriously again, be specific please.
Otherwise you just look silly.
Trust me on that.
PLENTY of DUers who have known me for years are reading, so
I think you'd better back up your accusations about me.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #257)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:32 PM

260. Nary of the plenty are here backing you up

Curious, wouldn't you say?

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #260)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:45 PM

269. Not to worry- they will.

Fact is, DU is a BIG place, and I'm sure not many of my
pals have seen your accusations yet.
I'll make sure they do.

Your concern about my lack of friends on DU has been noted.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #269)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:12 PM

288. Very humorous

You sound the horn, but no one comes to back up the tripe you've written in this thread.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #288)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:16 PM

289. Oh really? You are not keeping up SOG.

Patience friend, patience.

BHN

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #260)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:05 PM

281. So you like being part of the mob huh and because it is a majority it must be right too?

You like most here never bothered to even see the question after the title which was a statement not a question.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:59 PM

211. Yes

I won't announce that I charge you with starting a post that is expressly designed to stir people up, insult their intelligence, and then claim you are a person who believes in freedom of speech.

See, I have freedom of speech. That means I speak, and I'm not immune to the consequences of my speech. I am innocent until proven guilty. That doesn't preclude people looking at the facts of my involvement and speculating on it.

If I threw my mind out of the window, I would lose the ability to discern, evaluate, decide and use my judgment.

I'm not willing to do that. It's not American to decide to be intellectually dysfunctional just because some smart ass thinks he's calling thinking people out because they exercise their higher brain functions.

That goes against everything that prosperity is about.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:34 PM

216. Trial? There are people put on trial for crimes?

 

There are way too many war criminals and white collar criminals for that to even be close to true.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 05:58 PM

241. EPIC FAIL.

In CAPS! Invader Zim has to be arrested first, duh. Or did I miss the cops arresting Zim? Oh yeah...no I didn't.

So why would people want to hang him if he is not even charged with a crime yet? Doesn't that come first? Arrest, then trial?

Your OP is so epic fail that it needed CAPS!

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Response to Rex (Reply #241)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:32 PM

261. The EPIC FAIL is your knee jerk reaction and failure to respond to the question...

"Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" Did you miss that or were you rapped up in the mob mentality?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #261)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:49 PM

344. No you failed miserably, the fact that you don't see it in your own thread

is very sad imo.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 06:58 PM

252. Wow...look at all these posts.

Sucessful troll was sucessful.

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Response to The Midway Rebel (Reply #252)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:04 PM

254. Are you calling the OP a troll?

If so- please back it up with evidence for your statement.
I know there are disrupters on this thread, but the OP is not one of them.
BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #254)


Response to Son of Gob (Reply #256)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:24 PM

258. And WHAT, exactly, do you mean by that? Are YOU calling ME a troll?

Sure sounds that way.
Just curious, given your long and extensive involvement in the DU
community, are you SURE that is what you want to imply about ME?

Because I am pretty certain there are people here who have known me
for years who would object to your insinuations thus far...

Keep going... I will gladly continue to give you all the rope you want.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #258)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:29 PM

259. You've certainly accumulated plenty of rope in this thread.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #259)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:34 PM

262. And you have YET to back up any of your insinuations about me.

Got it.
You are not to be taken seriously; ever.
Can't wait for your further ridiculous contributions to DU.
Welcome...
BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #262)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:38 PM

265. Back up?

Scroll up, it's all there.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #265)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:03 PM

279. I can attest that "BeHereNow" is NOT a troll.

Check out her profile page. I have seen "BeHereNow" posts for years. I find her to me a good upstanding DU member.

Just thought I would give you my two cents.

P.S. Please feel free to check out my profile page also.

Have a great day!

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Response to William769 (Reply #279)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:05 PM

282. Thank you William...

I find the fact that a relatively new member would accuse
ME of being a troll, well, hysterical...
BHN

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #265)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:52 PM

333. BHN is not a troll

Just because you disagree with someone's point of view does not make that person a troll

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #265)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:15 PM

343. Son of Gob - I have never seen you or your user id

Here before. But I have written alongside of Be Here Now for many years.

Just saying and typing this a loud - so maybe you will stop thinking BHN is a "troll."

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #259)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:02 PM

276. Don't be silly,

spend some time here and learn a few things, please.

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Response to elleng (Reply #276)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:06 PM

283. Thanks Ellen...

Knew I could count on you..

BHN

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Response to elleng (Reply #276)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:20 PM

292. Read this thread

Then back up your buddy.

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Response to elleng (Reply #276)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:57 PM

317. +1

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #259)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:22 PM

293. careful there, Sonny

 

BHN is a respected member here, so watch that Gob of yourn, k?

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Response to Whisp (Reply #293)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:24 PM

295. Read the thread

Then back BHN up, k?

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Response to Whisp (Reply #293)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:52 PM

313. Thanks Whisp...

SOG said I didn't have any friends that would back me up
and protest his accusations against me.
Guess that isn't true, is it?

BHN

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #259)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:34 PM

302. People can disagree without being trolls, Son of Gob.

BeHere is not a troll. She may have opinions that differ from yours but that does not make her a troll.
It is bothersome to me that, when faced with a differing point of view, people are so quick to shout that. I don't see any rope.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #256)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:46 PM

270. Someone is a troll, AND they have a partner, because they have a POV YOU do not agree with?

I agree with the sentiment that all too often in high profile cases, a mob mentality does develop. That does not mean I do not believe that Zimmerman should be arrested and charged.

It doesn't matter if the person is guilty we still need to act like civilized people or we are likely to live in a society where revenge rather than justice becomes the 'law'.

I do not believe that is going to happen here, however it is really okay for someone to state an opinion about it as the OP did.

Too bad the thread did not prove him wrong.

People respond better to those who are rational. The OP may not have known all the circumstances surrounding this case, but instead of attacking him, informing him of why people are upset would have been a more rational and successful approach. .

Lashing out and calling people trolls because you don't like their opinions, is not a rational way to go about informing anyone. All it does is lose you credibility.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #270)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:55 PM

273. Very few have accually wanted to discuss issues involving the question.

Maybe the question was too simplistic. Indeed the thread revealed a mob mentality but that wasn't the reason for the thread. I'm sure most people would not want to see our court system change to a "presumed guilty" mode. I do thank you for your input.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #270)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:02 PM

277. First, I didn't call anyone a Troll, so save it.

I was responding to BHN who said there were disruptors in this thread. I agreed. The OP made this thread with the sole intention of disrupting. The vast majority can see that.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #277)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:01 PM

308. Well, that's an assumption. I am not a mind reader so I have to take the OP at face value.

He expressed an opinion, one that is not unusual in the world of 24/7 'news' coverage and Nancy Grace, and is not restricted to just this case. And he asked a question.

I didn't get the impression he was trying to disrupt at all. Sometimes things are just what they seem. A person, in this case, who is disturbed by the way the public gets whipped up into a frenzy and loses sight of what will affect all of us every time there is a high-profile case like this. It IS a concern so it's worth discussing imo.

In this case, and he may or may not have known this, it appears that there might not have been justice had the case not been brought to the attention of the media.

The police seem to be saying that under the current law, they could not arrest Zimmerman. That is a whole other debate, although very related to this case since that was their reason for not arresting him.

Since then, more information has surfaced that may provide what is needed to make an arrest.

But why not just respond to the question asked, and why assume the worst of someone asking a question, when there is no reason to do so?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #308)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:52 PM

332. Thank you for reflecting the standard a good discussion board should have.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #256)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:01 PM

274. For a newbie that is some nerve



BHN has been here for a few years...

I'd be careful of those charges.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #274)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:05 PM

280. What charges?

Are you threatening me?

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #280)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:12 PM

286. In your imagination

But you accused a regular of being a troll. It's not quite a good way to introduce yourself.



Now relax and enjoy yourself.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #286)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:17 PM

290. That is not true at all

This "regular" accused all of DU of losing their minds. Is that something you'd like to defend?

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #290)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:28 PM

298. So NOW, you are backing off of your insinuations about me?

Again, trying to deflect the attention away from your
bad behavior?

My friends on DU have not failed to notice.
WE are more than familiar with the technique, and if you
plan to be a part of this community, you need to learn that
that shit doesn't fly for long around here.

BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #298)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:32 PM

301. You're really proving the point on everything I've said in this thread.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #301)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:04 PM

319. Everything you've said has nothing to do with the original question I asked.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #286)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:39 PM

304. +1 Nadin...

That is exactly the advice our new member needs to consider.
BHN

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #274)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:23 PM

294. Thanks Nadin...

This individual has succumbed to the mob rule.
Last thing we need is for a newbie to think that is acceptable.
It's not.

BHN

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #256)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:26 PM

296. If you are calling BHN a troll I would like to know where you have gotten

your "considerable knowledge about trolls" being a member here for barely three months.

You might want to apologize.

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Response to Grateful for Hope (Reply #296)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:29 PM

299. Read the thread before joining the pile up

You sure defend BHN in this thread?

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Response to Grateful for Hope (Reply #296)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:31 PM

300. SOG was thinking his insinuations about me and Loon would go unnoticed by our community.

Thank you for setting our new member straight about what does and
doesn't fit our mutually agreed upon CS.
BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #300)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:15 PM

323. +1

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Response to The Midway Rebel (Reply #252)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:38 PM

264. ...and what does that have to do with the question...

"Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" Would you rather have the US courts presume you to be guilty? Oh never mind you don't want to discuss anything anyway do ya.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:04 PM

253. Obvious Troll is Obvious



RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #253)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:39 PM

266. I guess you are incapable of discussing issues involving the question...

"Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" or did you knee jerk react and miss that all together?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #266)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:43 PM

267. No

I'm pretty sure RL did answer your question.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #267)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:47 PM

271. And your vast experience and years on DU lead you to believe so?

You are becoming more irrelevant with each post SOG.
BHN

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Response to BeHereNow (Reply #271)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 07:53 PM

272. No, but RL and numerous others seem to agree

Seems like your on a lonely island in this thread. Who's irrelevant again?

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #272)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:01 PM

275. Apparently your mob rules. I'd rather be on a lonely island than stand with those...

who have no problem with a "presumed guilty before proven innocent" US court system. Oh yea ...that question you didn't respond to was "Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?" Did you miss that? The title was only a statement.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #275)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:08 PM

284. This is a message board, not the US court system

Your OP is completely disingenuous and deserves nothing but ridicule.

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Response to Son of Gob (Reply #284)


Response to L0oniX (Reply #275)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:26 PM

297. Did Trayvon

 

Have a chance to prove his innocense befor Zimmerman delivered the death sentence?

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Response to unionworks (Reply #297)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:11 PM

321. How would you like to have the US court system presum you to be guilty before you can prove...

you are innocent? Care to discuss the original question?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #321)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:40 AM

335. the poster IS discussing the original question.

Regardless of whether you can see that or not. It doesn't matter if the 'innocent' person is Trayvon, or Zimmmerman. One of those people was denied a trial- and the other has so far completly escaped one. We cannot bring Trayvon back to life and allow him a trial, but we can demand that his death be seen as worthy of being judged in a court of law. That is ALL the vast majority of people here on DU are asking for, despite many of you insinuations to the contrary.

You may not like that your question is every bit as valid for Trayvon Martin as it is for George Zimmerman, but the fact is that it IS. An innocent man is dead. The man who admits being responsible for that death is walking around an 'innocent man' at present. There are many questions about why this man is not in custody. If he is innocent, a trial should prove that. At least he has a chance to be tried in court, something he didn't see fit to allow Trayvon. But that fact doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to have a chance to prove his innocence. I don't understand why you have such a difficult time acknowledging this.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #266)


Response to RetroLounge (Reply #310)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:56 PM

316. Irony evades you ...you have nothing to discuss pertaining to the question originally asked...

but instead you devolve into grade school mockery ...that makes you the real troll here.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #316)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 08:00 AM

338. ...

Obvious Troll is droll



RL

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:09 PM

285. loon

 

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Response to got root (Reply #285)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:07 PM

320. Sawp?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:12 PM

287. Looks like a lot of people want to hang him now rather than wait for a trial

 

Is anyone really innocent before proven guilty anymore?

Is was Travon heard before the gun went off.
My apologies to Travon an his family. I"m only trying to make a point on an underground message board.

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Response to Herlong (Reply #287)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:17 PM

291. ah, but he doesn't matter

apparently.



I've said what you are saying over and over again, and the point is really valid imo- but the OP calls it 'reframing' the question.

What about Trayvon's assumption of innocence?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:35 PM

303. Only if the accused is a minority.

 

...

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Response to sikorsky (Reply #303)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:11 AM

341. poor poor whites... as a white man, you embarrass me

in fact, pathetic dweebs like you are just bigots playing the victim.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:42 PM

305. Seriously, the blood thirst on this thread is fucked up

Yeah, Zimmerman shot an unarmed black 17 year old. That seems to have been established. I have some sad news for many of you so you might want to sit down... innocent people are murdered in the US every day. The real tragedy here is the fucking police force and city leaders of Sanford, Fla. who apparently have a long history of this sort of racism.

There are a hell of a lot more threads condemning Zimmerman than what the real problem is.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:55 PM

306. Sure.

But not when it's politically valuable.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:11 PM

309. Who was Treyvon's judge for the crime of walking to the store? Zimmerman!

Who was Treyvon's jury? Zimmerman!

Who pronounced the death penalty on Treyvon? Zimmerman!

Who was the executioner who carried out the death sentence on Treyvon? Zimmerman!

And then the Sanford police and the state of Florida let Zimmerman walk without even doing the minimum requirements like giving him a drug test. Cause what the hell, one less "fu**in coon" in the hood, good job George, heres your murder weapon and your permit to roam the streets of Florida seeking more "suspicious black males" to execute !

Then the authorities let Trayvon's body lie in the the morgue for 3 days before they decided to contact his parents!

So now I'm supposed to treat this stone cold killer with all the respect, rights and dignity he denied his victim?

I don't give a damn about Zimmerman. He can run but he can't hide forever. He better turn himself in because if he is ever spotted on the streets, it would threaten MILLIONS of people and we would all have the right to STAND OUR GROUND! Amirite?

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #309)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:46 PM

330. Another one who doesn't respond to the original question ...thanks for adding to the discussion...

concerning the question. BTW concerning the question ...how would you like it if you were on trial with a presumption of guilt before you can prove you are innocent?

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:26 PM

311. 4772 views, 310 replies, only 3 sad recs



RL

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Response to RetroLounge (Reply #311)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:14 PM

322. Ah so DU is nothing but a rec contest to you ...instead of it being a discussion board.

Life's a b*tch when ya get out of high school.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #322)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:24 PM

326. is this an example of what you consider to be good 'discussion'?



Sad

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Response to Bluerthanblue (Reply #326)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:32 PM

328. You should ask the member that is into rec counts.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #328)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:47 PM

331. I asked you-

you don't seem to have much to say except to tell people that they don't 'get it', that they are 'reframing' the discussion, or to toss out a smart remark about other people's age/intelligence/maturity.

I've asked you what kind of 'discussion' you are seeking, and all I've seen is what I just listed. I guess I 'do' get it now, and can see why attempting to find any value in the 'discussion' you are seeking to inspire is not worth the time.

thank you for making that abundantly clear.

I finally 'get it'.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #322)


Response to L0oniX (Reply #322)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 08:03 AM

339. Obvious Troll is afraid of bad words?

It's spelled BITCH.

As in 6200 views now and only 3 recs. Ain't it a bitch?



RL

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:28 PM

312. Oh, I'll wait for a trial.

It might be a long wait, since he apparently hasn't been charged with a crime.

And I don't think they hang murderers, even in Florida, so I'll settle for a prison sentence. I'm opposed to the death penalty anyway.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 11:19 PM

324. Your thread has convinced me I should say...

"FU 2 DU3" for a while...

Jesus Fucking Christ..

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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #324)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:08 AM

337. This thread is an example...

of why, after 10 years of being a star member on DU, I no longer am.

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Response to L0oniX (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:48 AM

342. Of course he deserves a trial.

But the fact remains he was not in a position of any kind of authority to demand anything from Trevon Martin. The police told him to back off and not pursue Martin. Martin, as we now know, was unarmed.

He has every right to mount a defense, but if the law in its strictest sense means anything anymore, he will be arrested, face trial, and be convicted of -- at the very least -- reckless homicide.

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