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Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:18 PM

The "stand your ground" law applies to everyone right? .. including Trayvon.

I suspect he felt threatened even more. He was being followed by a huge scary looking white guy with a gun. Shit I would be freaked too and try to defend myself any way possible. If there was an altercation then it was based on both parties feeling threatened. One party used unnecessary deadly force and should be charged with something.

I cant believe shooting and killing an unarmed boy can be considered self defense in this situation. Its outrageous.

26 replies, 2312 views

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Arrow 26 replies Author Time Post
Reply The "stand your ground" law applies to everyone right? .. including Trayvon. (Original post)
DCBob Mar 2012 OP
Warren Stupidity Mar 2012 #1
DCBob Mar 2012 #5
moriah Mar 2012 #2
DCBob Mar 2012 #7
X_Digger Mar 2012 #14
DCBob Mar 2012 #17
X_Digger Mar 2012 #19
Warren Stupidity Mar 2012 #20
DCBob Mar 2012 #21
BlueCaliDem Mar 2012 #3
teddy51 Mar 2012 #4
arely staircase Mar 2012 #6
DCBob Mar 2012 #8
arely staircase Mar 2012 #13
Deep13 Mar 2012 #9
TheWraith Mar 2012 #10
DCBob Mar 2012 #11
X_Digger Mar 2012 #12
arely staircase Mar 2012 #15
X_Digger Mar 2012 #18
arely staircase Mar 2012 #24
X_Digger Mar 2012 #25
valerief Mar 2012 #16
workinclasszero Mar 2012 #22
DCBob Mar 2012 #23
workinclasszero Mar 2012 #26

Response to DCBob (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:22 PM

1. You didn't read Paragraph 11g


11.g This law shall not apply to African Americans.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:24 PM

5. Yeah.. ok that explains it.

thanks for the clarification. .. ugh.

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Response to DCBob (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:23 PM

2. A lawyer agrees with you.

Trayvon Martin: "Stand Your Ground" Rule Has NOTHING To Do With This Case

A lot of professional and amateur media have argued that the "stand your ground" rule -- a provision in Florida self-defense law -- could complicate or preclude the prosecution of George Zimmerman. Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, but police declined to arrest him. Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee insists that he cannot dispute Zimmerman's assertion of self-defense. 911 calls, witness testimony and the fact that Trayvon was unarmed and much smaller than his assailant, however, severely undermine Zimmerman's self-defense argument.

Nevertheless, some commentators -- most of whom lack any legal training -- insist that the stand your ground rule bolsters Zimmerman's defense. This argument is baseless. In order to understand why the rule should not affect the outcome of this case, it is important first to examine the law of self-defense in Florida.

<snip>

For several reasons, however, the stand your ground rule has no bearing on the Martin case. First, Florida law clearly states that self-defense is only available to aggressors under very limited circumstances:



More at link.

And yes, I agree that he was being threatened by being followed around.

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Response to moriah (Reply #2)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:28 PM

7. To me its like two guys getting in fist fight in a bar...

One guy pulls a gun and kills the other guy. Can the killer claim a "stand your ground" self-defense? Thats absurd right?

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Response to DCBob (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:46 PM

14. For a fist fight..

If one party disengages- and makes it known that they're disengaging- then the other party can't continue.

See 2(b) here- http://law.onecle.com/florida/crimes/776.041.html

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #14)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:51 PM

17. no one knows who was engaging or disengaging... only the word of the killer.

When there is a shooting and death and no clear evidence of self defense then this case needs to go to court.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:54 PM

19. Yeah, that was a hypothetical, not related to this case. n/t

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Response to DCBob (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:04 PM

20. which is why a lawyer will tell you off the record

that if you decide to use lethal force it is in your best interests to make sure the other person ends up dead.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #20)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:06 PM

21. Unfortunately that is the reality of our legal system.

and it sucks.

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Response to DCBob (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:23 PM

3. Since Republican'ts have taken over Florida, it's gone DOWNHILL

I still can't understand how they're able to take over that state. Are the majority of Floridians really that dense??

Wherever Republican'ts gain power, the state, the city, the town, heck, the country goes to hell almost immediately.

When will Americans learn?

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Response to DCBob (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:24 PM

4. The Governor has appointed a new prosecuter, so maybe something will come of that. n/t

 

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Response to DCBob (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:26 PM

6. i have made that point here several times

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:30 PM

8. I didnt see your posts earlier but that is exaclty how I see it.

There is no other way to interpret it in my point of view.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:44 PM

13. well thank you for making it again

maybe the law needs to be changed. but i think some (the police, and some attacking the law) have fallen into arguing from a position full of racial assumptions - most of all that the white guy with a gun had to be the one standing his ground.

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Response to DCBob (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:34 PM

9. It does not apply to those who are not paranoid enough to walk around with a gun.

Yeah, paranoid.

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Response to DCBob (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:37 PM

10. Actually it doesn't apply to everyone--it doesn't apply to the aggressor in a confrontation.

That's why even if you believe Zimmerman's story 100%, he still can't legally claim self defense. He became the aggressor when he chased Martin.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:39 PM

11. Yes, that makes his "self-defense" case even weaker.

If this case ever goes to court Zimmerman is toast... imo.

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Response to DCBob (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:44 PM

12. If Zimmerman grabbed him, tried to detain him, or started the altercation, then hell yes.

Martin had every right to be where he was, was not engaged in a criminal act, and did not initiate the aggression.

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:49 PM

15. actually if zimmerman tried to detain him in any way

whether through force or the threat (even implied) of force, trayvon had a right to stand his ground.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #15)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:54 PM

18. *nod* agreed. I could have been clearer. n/t

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Response to X_Digger (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:19 PM

24. you were pretty clear (to me)

my point (which is still a minority here) is that the stand your ground law does apply here, just not in the way people here (and the media at large) have assumed it does.

you and i are in total agreement on this. i (and i think you based on previous posts) support stand your ground laws. i just think there was a racially based missaplication of it embedded in the local cops' decision to not charge zimmerman.

i interpret duty to retreat laws as as a burden on the victims of bullies to continue to behave as victims. i don't think a gay person has any duty to flee a gay basher.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #24)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:22 PM

25. Exactamundo. n/t

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Response to DCBob (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:49 PM

16. No, no, no, no, no. The NRA bought this law so that violent crazies would use their guns.

It doesn't count unless the violent crazy has an NRA-approved gun.

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Response to DCBob (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:12 PM

22. Oh sure. White boy walks to the store for ice tea and skittles and gets gunned downed

on the way home by a black man claiming he looked suspicious.

Then the police ask the shooter a few questions then set him free with the gun he used to kill the little white boy with.

Really? I say REALLY????

Oh hells yeah thats gonna happens all over American, you betcha yah!

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Response to workinclasszero (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:15 PM

23. In that scenario the black man would never see the light of day again.

"Jim Crow" is still alive and well in America.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #23)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:48 PM

26. I know thats right!

These stand your ground laws are the modern day equivalent of lynchings.

Its open season on blacks and any other "suspicious looking person" (non white most likely) in America!

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