This message was self-deleted by its author

[quinnox]

This message was self-deleted by its author (quinnox) on Fri Feb 28, 2014, 09:32 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[11 Bravo]

1. Now that it's a color, I prefer to be called "privileged".

[ret5hd]

2. As you should. Thank you.

[FSogol]

9. Fish-belly white for me.

Except when exposed to Earth's Sun and then I turn red.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

20. Well I am white able bodies straight guy in top half of income

Distribution. So I guess I'm more than a privilege-American. I'm a privilege-American to the 5th power.

[Cleita]

27. No you aren't. You are not the 1% and definitely not the 0.01%. n/t

[Pretzel_Warrior]

33. I have been informed in no less than 20 threads this week

That I am über privileged.

[Cleita]

37. If you are, mazel tov, but there will always be someone more privileged and that can change.

I remember when the Queen and the Sultan of Brunei were considered the wealthiest humans on the planet. Apparently, they aren't anymore, but they are not suffering.

[phleshdef]

3. Unless we eventually breed ourselves into one race, as long as we have eyes...

...we will always use those terms to describe each other. And theres nothing wrong with that in and of itself. Colors play a huge role in how we identify everything.

[Cleita]

36. Genetically, I don't think we can do that.

So there always will be a gene shuffle. If there is a predominance of one "color" then most of the children will look like that, but every now and then a different looking child pops up when a recessive gene becomes prominent. If there are equal genetic distributions then you get a variety. I have known families with two parents who were of the same color skin, hair and eyes who have biological children from light to dark. My family for instance, two parents produced brunette and blond biological children. A friend of mine who was referred to as African American showed me a picture of her extended family at Thanksgiving and they covered the spectrum from blond to dark.

[phleshdef]

46. I think we hypothetically could. I doubt it will ever happen because of our global breeding habits.

But take a country like China or the Koreas, for example. The vast majority of people share the same general characteristics as far as eye, hair color and a narrow range of similar skin tones. You have to wonder about how something like that happens.

Weren't the early peoples of India thought of as much darker than they tend to be now until the Aryans came down and ended up interbreeding with them?

[quinnox]

48. we could if there was a major catastrophe

like a gigantic asteroid hit the Earth or plague wiped out most of humanity. Then, if the survivors were only concentrated in one area, and were all similar heritage, I would think (but I am no geneticist) that the colors of the offspring would remain the same. But I'm not sure if it would remain that way forever, of having only one color, in my scenario.

[Cleita]

49. That's because back in the stone age, people who had characteristics that fit into the landscape

survived long enough to procreate. Then in the Bronze Age, when warrior cultures arose, they pillaged and killed everyone that wasn't them. The spoils went to the victor. Some remnant populations remained in isolated pockets here and there but mostly it was the victors who reproduced. Today we have a different dynamic.

[phleshdef]

55. They didn't always wipe out everyone that wasn't them though.

Going back to the example of early India, my understanding was that the conquerors killed a lot of the men, but kept the women, had children with them and eventually the 2 groups kind've absorbed one another and the more modern common characteristics among Indians now are a product of that assimilation.

Now of course, not everyone in India looks the same, but there is a pretty common norm with hair, eyes and skin tone variations, especially compared to Western countries. I guess maybe the trick is a lot of interbreeding in isolationism over a long period of time (thousands of years?).

I'm just speculating off the general stuff I know from world history. I'm by no means an expert on this sort of topic, but the evolution of racial/ethnic groups and why certain people are a certain color, from a scientific/evolutionary/natural selection point of view, has always been fascinating to me.

[Cleita]

58. I think this is what I said.

"Some remnant populations remained in isolated pockets here and there but mostly it was the victors who reproduced."

[phleshdef]

62. Right on.

My main point was though, is, scientifically, mathematically, etc... its possible that we mix the paint up long enough on a global scale, not taking any other factors/events/etc into consideration, that we could end up all looking more similar. Of course the likelihood is very small, at least in my opinion. As long as we have eyes, we'll have "race". And honestly, if it weren't for fear and bigotry, that would nothing but beautiful.

[pnwmom]

4. That's what the Rethugs would want, so they can pretend people aren't treated differently

on the basis of race.

[BainsBane]

74. Amazing that some here share the same views

[rrneck]

5. Those distinctions won't go away

until everybody is the same color. Or at least until the various "colors" are evenly distributed. People are tribal critters and distinguish each other by how they look. Two million years of evolution doesn't get switched off all in a minute, or in ten thousand years.

[FarCenter]

138. India has quite a distribution of "colors" -- but I doubt it is a racial utopia.

[rrneck]

141. That's true. nt

[gollygee]

6. Color blindness is a form of racism

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/colorblind/201112/colorblind-ideology-is-form-racism

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/16/america-isn-t-colorblind-we-need-to-talk-about-racism.html

http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2012/01/colorblind_racism_a_popular_strategy_with_the_gop.html

http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2013/04/17/the-accidentally-color-blind-racist/

http://sundial.csun.edu/2013/02/colorblind-ideology-a-new-form-of-racism/

http://www.policymic.com/articles/55867/colorblindness-is-the-new-racism

http://www.tolerance.org/magazine/number-36-fall-2009/feature/colorblindness-new-racism

[quinnox]

10. Isn't that debatable though?

I mean, it seems to be the ideal would be not seeing color. That is what Martin Luther King was saying in his dream speech anyway.

[gollygee]

12. That's a misinterpretation of MLK

sometimes called "whitewashing" of MLK. You could google and find a ton of links about that as well.

[quinnox]

16. well, to me it seems debatable

I would think in an ideal society, color would not be a factor.

[gollygee]

21. We are no where near that ideal society

and in the society where we live, claiming to be "color blind" is just a way to dismiss people of color and racism.

[bettyellen]

155. the key to getting there is in not ignoring how far we have to go.

and you can't do that by whitewashing the situation, as you wrongly think MLK suggested.

[Gman]

17. King spoke of how someone is judged

Not denying their heritage or judging because of their heritage.

[quinnox]

22. yep, judging not by color of skin

Its a famous line in his speech.

[RobinA]

19. Ooops

Now you have done it. "Colorblind" is not an approved of concept. You must have missed that memo. Try to keep up.

[MrScorpio]

26. Don't make me whip out the white privilege bingo chart

The folks who are still denying that it's a problem won't like it one bit.

[Cleita]

28. LOL! They still don't get it. n/t

[Nye Bevan]

38. Apparently it's not good enough not to care about anyone's race, and to treat everyone the same

regardless of their race. Because then you become guilty of the dreaded "color-blindness" which automatically makes you a racist, or something.

I am ashamed to confess that my kids have all the symptoms of being color-blind, having friends of several races and treating them all the same. Does anyone know of a good re-education camp?

[quinnox]

42. you have failed and must now report to local government camp #472A

immediately! It's all lit up with bright spotlights and guard towers near the outskirts of town, you can't miss it!

[gollygee]

45. Having friends of several races and treating them the same doesn't make you "color blind"

"Color blindness" means pretending race and racism and the different experiences of people of different races don't exist.

Think Stephen Colbert with his "I don't see black" routine.

[phleshdef]

50. I think it depends on the context of "color blind".

For example, I'm color blind in how I choose friendships. I would never consider race as a factor as to whether or not I would engage in getting to know someone and becoming friends with them.

But if you are talking about economic issues, it would be foolish to not consider the implications race has various economic matters in various local economies. I don't know that I would call it out and out racism. But ignoring race on issues when race most certainly is a relevant factor is certainly not a sound way to make important judgments.

[JoePhilly]

7. I think this is a grey area.

Or gray area.

[Cleita]

8. I always resented Hispanic since the day some Wasp (oops, should I have said that?)

coined it. Where is Hispania? Latina not so much. South of the border we call ourselves that but it isn't all southies just those with European ancestry, well a half century ago, that's what it was about. Today, I don't care. I use the term myself because it's common usage. What always struck me weird was people were always described by their ethnicity in reports like about crimes and other reportable stories, unless they were white. It was just assumed that if no one described a person as dark, hispanic, asian, etc., they were assumed to be a so-called Caucasian.

So to answer your question, either we don't mention skin color, ancestry or ethnicity, or we describe EVERYONE in those terms.

[FSogol]

11. Isn't Hispania what the Romans called the Iberian Penisula? n/t

[Cleita]

14. One of the Caribbean islands was called that during the days of colonization.

And Spain was called that by the Romans, two thousand years ago, but today we call them Spaniards not Hispanians.

[Democracyinkind]

90. Yes it was.

"Hispaniola" is what the poster below is referring to.

[FSogol]

93. I know. Owned by the Dominican Republic, IIRC. n/t

[BainsBane]

128. No, it is the island that contains both the Dominican Republic and Haiti

[Democracyinkind]

144. Right.

[Autumn]

13. I get it now. Words,

and the use thereof. I have never been offended by words.

[Cleita]

23. Me neither unless they are used in an accusatory way.

What are often thought of as swear words are actually the words made into dirty language by a conquering tribe who impose their language on a subjugated population. I often point out that "Canterbury Tales" has the fuck and shit words in it because of when the Saxons were conquered by the Norman French. So we can't say fuck, but we can say fornicate and so on. I especially noticed this when I lived in South America and the cuss words were different in different countries. None of them were in Spanish, which was the common language every where. The cuss words were what the natives in each country used to describe things.

So if you call me a cunt, I will be upset. If you are referring to my cunt benignly in a sentence about that anatomy, I won't be upset.

[quinnox]

29. lol

[Cleita]

75. Not to worry.

I'm on so many ignore lists right now that I can say things without hearing the censorship jackboots coming for me.

[rhett o rick]

134. We need a good discussion on the topic of words. The same word can be used in many

different ways, depending on how you say it and how you mean it. The words themselves should never hurt anyone, just the intent.

[oldhippie]

154. Oh,yeah, that's just what we need ......

...

[Pretzel_Warrior]

15. You also can't say "that Blonde lady who works at the cafe"

Or that really tall guy living down the street.

[quinnox]

24. I was going to ask about gender terms too, actually

we seem headed that way.

[Cleita]

25. I don't have any problem with describing people by hair color and height or weight.

Some times you have to. If I commit a hold up at a convenience store, they should call me the five foot tall woman with brown hair and eyes and white complexion, instead of the tall, blue-eyed man, with sandy hair and ruddy complexion.

[Iggo]

30. Depends on who's doin' the referrin', know'm say'n?

[quinnox]

31. lol

Am I to take it you were doing a little "gangsta talk" there?

[Iggo]

32. Nah, that was my white-boy drawl.

EDIT: Oh, wait! I mixed my accents! Half cowboy, half street!

[quinnox]

34. lol

well done.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

39. Sling blade. Mmhmmm.

[Adrahil]

35. You can't eliminate racism by pretending the cultural concept of races doesn't exist. NT

[Cleita]

41. Races don't exist actually. We are all the same species.

It seems we absorbed other species by breeding with them or killed them off back in paleolithic times. Color is just regional differences like white bears in the arctic and brown bear lower down in the planet.

[Adrahil]

69. Yes, of course, that's why I said "cultural concept of race"

I very much aware that race is a cultural construct. But it is a very important and influential cultural construct.

[Cleita]

72. Yes you are correct.

:

[FarCenter]

136. Polar bears, brown bears, and black bears are actually different species

There are two subspecies of polar bears, 16 of brown bears, 16 of American black bears. Subspecies are roughly equivalent to races.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursus_(genus)

[rhett o rick]

159. "Roughly equivalent" isnt a very scientific term. IMO there are either one race or as many races as

the population of the planet. Any other breakdown is arbitrary.

[FarCenter]

160. Subspecies emerge when geographically isolated breeding populations evolve differently

It applies to humans as much as bears. For example, there was minimal gene flow between the Americas and the rest of the world for about 12,000 years. The Eurasian population has been diverging from the sub-Saharan African population for around 70,000 years.

Principle component analysis and clustering algorithms can be used to classify human genotypes into several well-defined groups.

[rhett o rick]

161. If they "can be" then why havent they? I am guessing that the "well-defined groups" you refer to

wont be so "well-defined." And even if we could "group" people, I dont see what good it would do.

[sufrommich]

54. It's very easy for some to claim that skin

color doesn't matter when their skin color has never mattered.

[gollygee]

57. +1

[Adrahil]

70. Well said. NT

[kwassa]

98. +1000

[fishwax]

122. +1! n/t

[phleshdef]

67. Yea, there are different types of racism. Some racism is purely based on "culturalism".

I don't know if "culturalism" is even a real word... but I've met white people that don't like urban/inner city culture black people, yet have no problem with black people who are more into what some would consider "upper middle class white culture". Some people harbor prejudice towards others because they are afraid of or otherwise uncomfortable with things associated with the victim groups culture.

I've been guilty of this myself, having grown up in Southern WV (and loathed every minute of it), I can jump the gun a little when it comes to judging white southerners and so called "rednecks" in general. I'm white myself and I grew up around a lot of stuff that bothered me with the local culture. I've had to work on that as I've gotten older. For example, if someone tells me they like NASCAR and country music, I have to stop myself from immediately thinking that person is a simple minded, religious conservative who probably doesn't know a whole lot about the world.

If I were a black man saying the same stuff that I've sometimes said about "southern white trailer trash rednecks", then people could probably fairly call me racist, even though I'm not claiming any racial superiority or feelings of privilege over another particular race as a whole, I'm still directing my prejudice towards a group that is generally one "race" because of the way they live and think. That's not right of course. We shouldn't judge like that. But I believe theres a difference between that and outright thinking that your genetics entitle you to stand over and walk over others, like the Nazis and the white supremacists, etc.

[Nye Bevan]

40. Does the census have a check box for sexual orientation?

If not, why does it have one for race?

[Cleita]

43. They finally got around to putting a check box in there for mixed races.

It was always confusing to me considering half my family were Nordic European, the other half Mediterranean European, and there was my New World Mapuche great, grandmother mixed in there. I couldn't figure out what to check. It seems they need to step up to the plate and do just that for sexual orientation too.

[KamaAina]

44. Absolutely.

From now on, the song by Chicago shall be known as "My World".

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

47. "hispanic" or "latino" are not colors or races for that matter. nt

[Cleita]

53. Really. People don't get that.

I used to argue with yanks that Spanish speaking America was as diverse in ethnicities as it is here. I finally gave up.

[reformist2]

52. Words are very unnecessary, they can only do harm

Enjoy the Silence

[quinnox]

56. Depeche Mode

[Sunlei]

59. yes! only a few places race needs to be considered to help fix the problems caused by segregation.

We are still a country that divides by race ,class, color, religion, even politics.

I'm tired of helping the bad guys by labeling everyone.

[LanternWaste]

60. I don't think we should ignore our differences...

I don't think we should ignore our differences; I do believe however, that we should refrain from insulting or illustrating disrespect towards others based on those same differences.

However, I do realize that for far too many people, the second point may be hard to achieve so long as they continue to do that very thing, yet act under the pretense they are simply asking innocent questions.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

61. No. n/t

[BainsBane]

63. Did it occur to you that a bunch of white people sitting around talking about

What people of color should be allowed to call themselves is offensive?

Jesus fucking Christ.


For those still confused about the term white privilege, this OP displays it in its fully glory.

[quinnox]

65. Damn, your filter is so narrow-minded and distorted, you see everything in skewed terms

This post you did IS a perfect example.

[BainsBane]

66. How is it skewed?

What makes you think it's your business or that of DU as a whole to decide what people of color call themselves?

[quinnox]

68. "My business" is none of your business

[BainsBane]

73. You have posted in the middle of GD

You think you can sit in judgment on matters of race and substitute your own wishes for those of people of color. Now you claim it's none of my business?

Is your goal to be deliberately hostile to the few remaining DUers of color?

[Cleita]

76. Go back to your little gated HOF community where no one will

offend you. If you step out side of that gate, be prepared to run into people who have differing views from you. GD is downtown. You don't rule it.

[BainsBane]

85. and I am expressing those views right now

which clearly you find unacceptable, hence your announcement that I should go back to HOF, essentially stay in my place.

[Cleita]

86. And you have a right to. So express them with courtesy and stop demanding

that others have to do what you say.

[BainsBane]

87. Asking a question is not a demand

Telling someone to go back to the women's quarters is not respectful.

Do you realize some members now refer to GD as "the Big House," a term referring to the mater's house under slavery?
That is the effect of threads like these. I have an interest of DU's holding on to a modicum of diversity rather than driving the last few remaining posters of color off this site. I would like people to think about the effect of what they post has on members of color and to think about what it is they seek to accomplish.

[Cleita]

89. You chose to create a woman's quarter but apparently it's not big enough for you.

No one made you do it.

[BainsBane]

91. I wasn't even on DU when that group was created

And here you avoid the issue at hand in lieu of your animosity toward HOF. This is about people of color, not your antipathy toward feminists. However, it's not at all surprising that the same people are hostile to the views of both people of color and feminists.

[Cleita]

95. But you joined it willingly. No one shoved you in there.

Instead you go downtown, walk into the stores. Deride everything that doesn't suit you and then you retreat behind your gated community and gossip with your neighbors about how those rubes down in the hood don't get you or what you stand for.

[kwassa]

102. I've never posted in HoF, and I totally agree with Bainsbane.

Nothing more pathetic than a bunch of white people sitting around deciding issues of color

I'm not so worried about people of color leaving DU. I'm worried about white people who claim to be liberal being so stupid.

[Cleita]

106. Good. Agree with that person. I don't.

I also have a right to express my opinion and I will not be shushed.

[FSogol]

97. Hey! It's the twisty word game! "the Big House" a term referring to the mater's house under slavery!

Did you know the term "quarter" once referred to splitting my ancestors into pieces? I would like people to think about the effect of what they post has on people and to think about what it is they seek to accomplish.

[BainsBane]

101. No, you are thinking of drawn and quartered

as in pulled into four parts. You etymology is off, but in mocking my concerns, your point is clear.

[FSogol]

108. No, your concerns are fine, but you are exaggerating terms too far to take offense against

posters that should just be ignored/laughed at.

Big house more often refers to prisons/penitentiaries. Check out any American dictionary.



PS. From the Random House Dictionary:
quartered (quar·tered)
adjective
1.divided into quarters.

My note: common English punishment for treason against the Celts from the 13 century to the 18th century.

[BainsBane]

112. The person explicitly referenced slavery.

In juxtaposing the Big House with the slave quarters.

[FSogol]

114. In this thread? Not that I see. n/t

[BainsBane]

118. No, I didn't say it was in this thread

My point is that members of color see threads like these as hostile, particularly when they are told to stay out of a discussion because they are "out of their element." That is indeed in this thread.

[bravenak]

92. Wow. Go back to your little gated HOF community? That's a horrible thing to say.

You basically told another person to stay in their place, or else.
I find something very wrong with that. You both are allowed to state your view and disagree, but to tell someone to run back to HOF is quite offensive.

[bravenak]

99. Are you telling me to stay out of the discussion, now?

I hope that's not what you are saying. Cause if you are, I give as good as I take, so bring it baby.
It's your discussion?? WTF died and made you the GD emperor?? I've been reading this stupid crap you all been posting up here for days, dear.

You need to correct yourself and watch how you say things to me, honey. I am not the one.

[Cleita]

104. I'm warning you to stay out for your own good, but if you want to

to enter the rattlesnake pit, be my guest.

[bravenak]

111. I live in a snake pit called the USA. And I'm not your guest, hun, open forum and all.

You ain't running nothin but your mouth.


Your warning sounded like a threat, dear. I don't take very well to people using threatening language and talking down to me.

And I'm pissed to see all of you white people sitting around deciding things and telling black people like me to stay out of the discussion, for our own good. FYVM for that.

And then you use terms from slavery like big house. And you think it's cool and funny. And it's not. It's rather antediluvian, really.

[Cleita]

115. Fine. But whatever issues I have with BB have nothing to do with you.

[bravenak]

121. It's very noticeable and you basically told me to STFU.

I hate being told to STFU.

It make me think that that person wants problems, and I'm down. And the threatening language that you would never use while speaking to me face to face, makes me think you have a problem dealing with black women. I'm trying to help you.

I will be just as rude to you as you are to me at all times.

[Number23]

163. I think we should leave the snakes to their pit aka this thread

Snake pit. I like the sound of that -- again. Really explains alot around here.

Let them wallow in this ugly, ignorant thread. Surely, no one is surprised by a single name agreeing with this OP. I just want to high five everyone that sees right through this garbage and calls it out.

Wanna come with me to re-read Onpatrol's post in the AA forum about racism in the Dem party? Not that it will affect that many people in this forum. Between those that completely deny and minimize racism's impact on the past, present and possibly future of this country and the fact that I have no doubt whatsoever that this forum is crawling with anti-Dem Libertarians, I don't think that too many people in GD care about that stuff anyway.

[bravenak]

164. Yes, yes, let us go.

I have intruded for to long.

I think you are right, a reread of onpatrol's post is definitely in order.

[kwassa]

105. Don't tell us who to respond to. If you don't like downtown ......

then leave.

[Cleita]

107. ...

[seabeyond]

147. have i given you a hug of late.....? this is what i am hearin'

[bravenak]

149. Yes, I do need a hug now.

Are we allowed to do that in here? I was told to leave for my own good, so....


See you at 'our place' in HOF.

[seabeyond]

151. nah.... i luvs my gd. has been "my" place since 2004.

but then, i enjoy sipping my wine with like minded and respected in hof, also.

[bravenak]

152. I like GD too.

I get lots of laughs here. Cute kittys!

[JustAnotherGen]

156. Three bear hug!

[bravenak]

157. Yay!

[Capt. Obvious]

123. There's a thread about you over there

[seabeyond]

148. ya, i saw. i couldnt believe someone was all... downtowning it, and big housing it. funny, huh?

[MineralMan]

142. I'm sorry, but that's just way out of line.

This is GD and we're all guests here. Ordering someone not to post here and to hide in a group on DU is just not acceptable, in my opinion. GD is the public square of DU. Every DUer is welcome to participate in discussions here. Nobody rules GD except the admins of this website.

You have no possible reason to tell someone they may not post in GD. That's just rude.

[seabeyond]

146. bah hahaha. i really did not think this was real. oh, all the chuckles i missed on du today. clieta?

really?

[quinnox]

77. Newsflash - No one has to answer to you

Or your routine, "so, when was the last time you kicked your puppy?" type questions.

Especially when someone is still a relative newbie to Du.

Bottom line, I am a terrible candidate for thought police-like mindsets, or anything close to them. Indeed, I am probably one of the most wrongly suited candidates you will find on Du for that.

[BainsBane]

83. I'm terribly sorry

for suggesting you might treat members of color on this site with respect. Clearly that was uppity of me. I must defer to my betters who believe themselves entitled to deny the voices of people of color and write race out of existence because clearly you are and your pals are far more important than those who actually experience racism.

[1awake]

79. You tell him/her they have no right to be judgmental while you are being judgmental. nt

[BainsBane]

80. Do you get the part about sitting in judgement of what people of color call themselves?

How is that his or anyone else's business?

[1awake]

82. Where did he/she say that?

I see someone raising the possibility of race being such a non issue that identifying by race becomes obsolete. It is your filter that keeps drawing back to the same thing, not his/hers.

[BainsBane]

84. Those are terms people of color self identify with

Pretending race is a non-issue is racist. It perpetuates inequality by willfully ignoring what is a serious problem. You are damn right I judge it. I have an unyielding commitment to equal rights and social justice. This nonsense about colorblindness or race not being an issue is a right-wing canard that seeks to deprive people of color of their voices and rights.

[1awake]

100. The only person saying that is YOU... what aren't you getting??

Pretending race is a non-issue is racist. It perpetuates inequality by willfully ignoring what is a serious problem.

I would agree with that, though that was not the other persons intent, and it was obvious it wasn't.

This nonsense about colorblindness or race not being an issue is a right-wing canard that seeks to deprive people of color of their voices and rights.

The only person I have ever seen say that on this board is you. Clearly, I do not look at every post but what I have seen doesn't coincide with what you say. It appears, to use an example, like someone saying what kind of coffee is that, and your reply being purple. It doesn't make sense to the point like you are trying really hard to make an issue out of nothing being discussed.

I am not trying to be mean nor am I trying to argue. Sorry if I come across that way.

[bravenak]

103. I also agree with the fact that colorblindness is bull.

This nonsense about colorblindness or race not being an issue is a right-wing canard that seeks to deprive people of color of their voices and rights.

It is so true, it hurts.

[1awake]

109. I agree because at this time it is impossible. nt

[kwassa]

110. well, I will back up bainsbane on that.

Being "colorblind" is a false ideal, because it suggests that one should not see color. This is, of course, impossible, most of us are not blind. This colorblind concept also asks us not to consider differences.

It is better to see the color, and the differences, as well as the commonalities, and to celebrate those, and embrace them.

[1awake]

119. I am in full agreement with that.

I like to celebrate our differences. Cultures have specific identities and should be celebrated. Customs, foods, dress, everything adds flavor to life. I wish more people could see it that way.

[kwassa]

126. This is why the term "colorblindness" can be seen as offensive.

It tends to pretend those differences don't exist.

I think that people that use it in the positive sense think of it differently; that they see the color, but it doesn't make a difference to them. I don't think that is enough; they really need to engage and get to know those that are different than them, or from a different background.

[1awake]

133. Agreed

I think that people that use it in the positive sense think of it differently; that they see the color, but it doesn't make a difference to them. I don't think that is enough; they really need to engage and get to know those that are different than them, or from a different background.

Yes, Some use it meant in a positive way, though still impossible in today's world. I'd add boring and a huge miss on wonderful opportunities.

[RobinA]

125. Yes, It Did

but when everything you say or think is labelled offensive by some DUer somewhere, it kinda loses its meaning.

[demmiblue]

137. Jury results:

On Fri Feb 28, 2014, 03:47 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Did it occur to you that a bunch of white people sitting around talking about
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4580642

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This poster does anything to stir shit. What started out as a respectful discussion turns into a passive aggressive attack on the subject.



You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Feb 28, 2014, 03:56 PM, and the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The post doesn't meet the criteria for hiding it.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: agree with the sentiment .he didn't call the op a name .
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I strongly question whether or not the OP started this thread to elicit a respectful discussion. I also happen to agree with the sentiment of the alerted post and do not think that it violates the SOP. What is happening to DU?!

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[BainsBane]

150. Oh, thanks.

[Number23]

162. Simply put: Juror #6 gets it.

Totally gets it.

[Cali_Democrat]

64. dammit quinnox

You really gotta stop eating those damn twinkies!

Now you're subjecting DU to your mindless posts!!

[La Lioness Priyanka]

71. LOL. this neoliberal pretense of color blindness, when indeed color determines some really

important outcomes in our lives, is really quite ridiculous.

[Baitball Blogger]

81. +1000

[Gormy Cuss]

88. +1 n/t

[kwassa]

116. +100,000

[fishwax]

130. Yes indeed nt

[rodroc]

78. Could be offensive

I think that these terms are offensive and although I am not very offended by them, I am certain that there are lots of people who are. I think it is time for everyone to stop using these terms and referring to people by their ethnic background. I mean is 2014 already!

[bravenak]

94. Maybe you should include black people in this discussion.

Not many left though, huh?

Well, best try to run the rest of us off, stat!!

[Cleita]

113. Several black members already are participating in this thread. eom.

[bravenak]

117. Didn't you tell me to stay out of the big house?

I'm in the AA quarters right now, since it's winter and there not any work to do. Might run over to HOF and stay in my place over there for a while. Don't want my presence to stress you good people out.

[kwassa]

129. LOL!

[BainsBane]

131. You're welcome in the women's quarters anytime

bravenak. We'll throw you a party.

[bravenak]

135. THANK YOU!!

It's nice to be welcomed somewhere on DU. I've been trying to practice my Misandry anyway, now I'll have more time to devote to it.
We need a good party after the month we've had around here!

[etherealtruth]

153. I may not be a "good person" of GD ...

.... but I am a person of GD. glad you are in the conversation.

Call me stupid, but I kinda think AA voices are super important in discussions of race ....?

[bravenak]

158. I do too.

Thank you.

[GeoWilliam750]

168. Love your posts

Have always thought that "your place" is anywhere you want to be.

Are those two cuties in the picture yours?

[bravenak]

169. Yes, those are my babies.

They're a bit bigger now, but still cute.

And yes, my place IS wherever I want it to be. Thank you for noticing that, some people would rather I stay away. But looking around this thread, I should have stayed away.

[kwassa]

120. Color terms should be totally embraced, not dropped.

One does not overcome racism by pretending the problem doesn't exist.

Some people would like them dropped because such discussion makes them uncomfortable. The more color is talked about, in a civil and open way, the more understanding will ensue.

[ScreamingMeemie]

124. "Some people would like them dropped because such discussion makes them uncomfortable."

Yup, yup, triple yup.

As uncomfortable as discussing white privilege.

[sufrommich]

127. So much this. nt

[wryter2000]

139. +100,000 n/t

n/t

[aquart]

132. Gonna forbid distinguishing blondes from brunettes, too?

Will I be allowed to say I'm wearing a black t-shirt?

Political correctness gearing up to run amok?

You're expecting liberals to refuse to be liberal anymore?

[FarCenter]

140. Hair texture and facial features are important racial markers.

[aquart]

166. Yep. Light-eyed, fair-skinned blondes have more Neanderthal DNA.

A small indicator of species mongrelism, wouldn't you say?

[MineralMan]

143. Dropped by whom, quinnox?

You don't make that clear at all.

[MADem]

145. Well, Hispanic is simply a cultural identifier. It it not limited by race, or heritage.

You can be any color and any heritage, and be "Hispanic."

Samples: David Ortiz, Alberto Fujimori, Pope Francis (Italian out of Argentina), Carmen Diaz, Rita Hayworth, Shakira....

When we're all the same color I suppose it won't matter, but for now we have to do something to identify ourselves, particularly in criminal matters.

Perhaps we ought to hand people a color wheel, with assorted shades from dark to light, and ask witnesses to pick from one. Maybe we could assign each shade a letter or number, or maybe both, so the news report would read:

The suspect was described as five foot eight, with green tinted hair, B-6 skintone, and hazel eyes!

We'd all have to learn the color wheel, of course...but we're smart. We mastered the GW Bush Terra Terra Terra color chart in no time!

Realistically, though, there are huge variations within black, brown, "Asian" (like the assorted shades of Pacific Islanders are "just like" Japanese, who are "just like" Koreans, who are "just like" Chinese...said snarkily) and caucasian. What does "Tan Mom," for example, have in common with Woody Allen? Certainly not their skin color!

[Blue_Tires]

165. To answer your questions

1. It would be nice if "color" terms were dropped, since terms like black/brown/yellow/red/white are WAY too general to use in place of ethnic designations; but I don't see it happening anytime soon...

2. No, I don't find it offensive when someone says "black"

[LadyHawkAZ]

167. When they stop mattering so much

...maybe they'll disappear on their own?

JMO.

[quinnox]

170. I think this thread has run its course. Thanks to all those who replied politely and

respectfully. And a big "No thanks!" to those few who tried to distort and dishonestly spin what it was about in the first place!

The OP in its original form -

Should "color" terms be dropped completely? [View all]

Do you find it offensive when someone says or refers to "white" or "black" or "brown-skinned" or "hispanic" or "latino"?

I don't, but I'm wondering if this is the next frontier?