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Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:21 AM

"If Trayvon Had Only Answered In an Appropriate Manner There Would have Been No Problem"

Last edited Tue Apr 3, 2012, 08:26 PM - Edit history (8)

On Anderson Cooper 360 yesterday, I heard an interview that I had to search for on the internet and listen to several times to believe what I was hearing.

VIDEO: http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/anderson-cooper-interviews-friend-of-trayvon-martin-s-killer-video

Cooper asked Taaffe to describe Zimmerman. He said, “George Zimmerman was a very congenial, amiable admirable person. He was very very kind to everyone in our community and I really appreciated and so did the rest of our residents that he stepped up and took over the position as neighborhood watch captain to ensure the safety of all the residents in our community.”

When asked if he was aware Zimmerman was armed with a gun, Taaffe said, “I was extremely shocked to the fact that he was carrying a gun, yes.”

Asked what shocked him most, Taaffe said, “The lethal weapon, it wasn’t George. As I said, he was a very congenial, amiable man. The use of a lethal weapon, a deadly lethal weapon, as the 9 millimeter that he used was very shocking to me. It didn’t fit the person.”

Cooper asked Taaffe to describe his neighborhood and to discuss if there had been burglaries. Taaffe said, “I have lived at Twin Lakes since 2006, July 2006. In the last 15 months, we have experienced 8 burglaries. One, which was perpetrated during the daylight hours. Most, the majority of the perpetrators, were young, black males.”

When asked to reflect on what’s happened, Taaffe said, “This was a perfect storm. You had a neighborhood that was experiencing extremely high tension and anxiety and with the burglaries we, pardon my phrase, we were a Defcon-5." Cooper brought up the topic of race because so many people have said they consider Zimmerman a racist and that Martin was shot because he was black.

When asked if he believes race played a factor in Trayvon’s death Taaffe said, “Absolutely not.” When asked why he felt so strongly he said, “George is not a racist. He was just performing his duties as watch captain. Whether it be African American, Latino, Asian, or white, he would’ve done the same thing. He would have approached the person and asked him 'What’s your business here?' and if he had just answered him in an appropriate manner, 'I’m just here visiting. My mother’s house is around the corner,' and be upfront and truthful, there wouldn’t be any problem.”



This is, without a doubt, the most shocking and reprehensible thing I have heard said to date about this case. Why Anderson did NOT followup on these outrageous statements, I cannot imagine. But this man CLEARLY is putting the blame on this murderered young man for his own death.

I wonder how many more in that community feel the same way. Evidently, the police there feel the same.

Absolutely outrageous.

Taafe was also quoted in an article as saying that after the housing crisis they had been forced to "rent to low-lifes and gangsters."

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html

Latest Taafe comment to MSNBC:

Taafe: "George was no Rambo. He was a caring person. It is really sad he has already been convincted by the public media and already sentenced to the gas chamber."

MSNBC: "Do you think he had anger issues?"

Taafe: "I think he had "Fed Up Issues. I think he was Mad as Hell and he wasn't going to take it anymore."

UPDATE: 4/3/2012: "You plant corn, you get corn." Taaffe back on TV, grilled by Soledad O'Brien: http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/03/zimmerman-neighbor-fmr-neighborhood-watch-captain-prior-burglaries-were-by-young-black-males-if-you-plant-corn-you-get-corn/


(Also posted at Daily Kos)




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Reply "If Trayvon Had Only Answered In an Appropriate Manner There Would have Been No Problem" (Original post)
K Gardner Mar 2012 OP
phantom power Mar 2012 #1
K Gardner Mar 2012 #2
Taverner Mar 2012 #166
K Gardner Mar 2012 #184
HockeyMom Mar 2012 #3
K Gardner Mar 2012 #6
LineLineLineReply .
Go Vols Mar 2012 #61
K Gardner Mar 2012 #81
Fawke Em Mar 2012 #123
K Gardner Mar 2012 #183
Brigid Mar 2012 #71
HockeyMom Mar 2012 #134
Wait Wut Mar 2012 #154
obamanut2012 Mar 2012 #261
L0oniX Mar 2012 #49
nanabugg Mar 2012 #56
got root Mar 2012 #141
COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #162
L0oniX Mar 2012 #204
JonLP24 Mar 2012 #227
Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2012 #74
L0oniX Mar 2012 #206
got root Mar 2012 #77
L0oniX Mar 2012 #205
BeHereNow Mar 2012 #234
groundloop Mar 2012 #103
renate Mar 2012 #148
K Gardner Mar 2012 #150
COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #163
L0oniX Mar 2012 #203
AnotherDreamWeaver Mar 2012 #109
patrice Mar 2012 #194
AnotherDreamWeaver Mar 2012 #199
patrice Mar 2012 #207
obamanut2012 Mar 2012 #262
L0oniX Mar 2012 #201
AnotherDreamWeaver Mar 2012 #219
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #211
xtraxritical Mar 2012 #114
L0oniX Mar 2012 #202
Honeycombe8 Mar 2012 #213
obamanut2012 Mar 2012 #263
LanternWaste Mar 2012 #236
ret5hd Mar 2012 #4
Ecumenist Mar 2012 #19
lose the pain body Mar 2012 #26
indepat Mar 2012 #157
Rex Mar 2012 #178
HereSince1628 Mar 2012 #5
K Gardner Mar 2012 #8
hfojvt Mar 2012 #110
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Liberal Veteran Mar 2012 #7
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obamanut2012 Mar 2012 #264
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K Gardner Mar 2012 #15
lose the pain body Mar 2012 #28
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MattBaggins Mar 2012 #64
arthritisR_US Mar 2012 #50
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got root Mar 2012 #79
Horse with no Name Mar 2012 #113
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DFab420 Mar 2012 #158
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vaberella Mar 2012 #169
Lilyeye Mar 2012 #185
im in you ur in me Mar 2012 #225
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noiretextatique Mar 2012 #238
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yardwork Mar 2012 #11
lose the pain body Mar 2012 #40
noiretextatique Mar 2012 #242
xtraxritical Mar 2012 #122
frylock Mar 2012 #12
lose the pain body Mar 2012 #43
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Rozlee Mar 2012 #106
vaberella Mar 2012 #171
K Gardner Mar 2012 #78
malaise Mar 2012 #94
otohara Mar 2012 #102
patrice Mar 2012 #147
Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #175
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csziggy Mar 2012 #66
LibertyLover Mar 2012 #143
Ecumenist Mar 2012 #16
K Gardner Mar 2012 #22
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patrice Mar 2012 #235
spanone Mar 2012 #17
deutsey Mar 2012 #23
marble falls Mar 2012 #84
Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2012 #36
Moostache Mar 2012 #116
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Guy Whitey Corngood Mar 2012 #18
Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #174
The Magistrate Mar 2012 #20
lose the pain body Mar 2012 #29
Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2012 #31
lose the pain body Mar 2012 #34
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lose the pain body Mar 2012 #45
Paladin Mar 2012 #82
The Magistrate Mar 2012 #87
Lizzie Poppet Mar 2012 #180
patrice Mar 2012 #237
The Magistrate Mar 2012 #60
patrice Mar 2012 #144
The Magistrate Mar 2012 #155
patrice Mar 2012 #160
patrice Mar 2012 #161
The Magistrate Mar 2012 #170
patrice Mar 2012 #186
MattBaggins Mar 2012 #70
AnotherDreamWeaver Mar 2012 #96
patrice Mar 2012 #159
AnotherDreamWeaver Mar 2012 #187
patrice Mar 2012 #188
patrice Mar 2012 #197
AnotherDreamWeaver Mar 2012 #200
patrice Mar 2012 #208
AnotherDreamWeaver Mar 2012 #215
patrice Mar 2012 #217
Logical Mar 2012 #120
noiretextatique Mar 2012 #240
d_r Mar 2012 #129
noiretextatique Mar 2012 #239
samsingh Mar 2012 #21
Wellstone ruled Mar 2012 #24
K Gardner Mar 2012 #27
L0oniX Mar 2012 #25
WinkyDink Mar 2012 #52
patrice Mar 2012 #243
Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2012 #30
K Gardner Mar 2012 #33
Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2012 #55
lose the pain body Mar 2012 #32
K Gardner Mar 2012 #39
lose the pain body Mar 2012 #46
ceile Mar 2012 #41
Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2012 #42
lose the pain body Mar 2012 #48
ceile Mar 2012 #53
uppityperson Mar 2012 #63
K Gardner Mar 2012 #67
Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2012 #80
im in you ur in me Mar 2012 #226
Paladin Mar 2012 #83
ceile Mar 2012 #85
frylock Mar 2012 #97
noiretextatique Mar 2012 #245
K Gardner Mar 2012 #65
Guy Whitey Corngood Mar 2012 #68
sabrina 1 Mar 2012 #112
patrice Mar 2012 #246
noiretextatique Mar 2012 #241
HipChick Mar 2012 #51
Baitball Blogger Mar 2012 #54
sinkingfeeling Mar 2012 #58
KamaAina Mar 2012 #59
Smilo Mar 2012 #72
gratuitous Mar 2012 #73
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Dr. Strange Mar 2012 #75
LynneSin Mar 2012 #90
Dr. Strange Mar 2012 #105
csziggy Mar 2012 #76
ehrnst Mar 2012 #86
DallasNE Mar 2012 #91
K Gardner Mar 2012 #93
ieoeja Mar 2012 #142
DallasNE Mar 2012 #165
Blue_Tires Mar 2012 #179
qanda Mar 2012 #181
JHB Mar 2012 #95
Junkdrawer Mar 2012 #100
K Gardner Mar 2012 #111
Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2012 #125
sendero Mar 2012 #101
cindyperry2010 Mar 2012 #104
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Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2012 #135
AllyCat Mar 2012 #108
southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #115
mainer Mar 2012 #117
Bruce Wayne Mar 2012 #118
Fawke Em Mar 2012 #121
tledford Mar 2012 #126
myrna minx Mar 2012 #136
HeiressofBickworth Mar 2012 #198
Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #209
K Gardner Mar 2012 #210
HeiressofBickworth Mar 2012 #212
Art_from_Ark Mar 2012 #216
Xipe Totec Mar 2012 #127
Solly Mack Mar 2012 #128
Hell Hath No Fury Mar 2012 #132
Solly Mack Mar 2012 #140
Downtown Hound Mar 2012 #130
ZombieHorde Mar 2012 #131
Historic NY Mar 2012 #138
backscatter712 Mar 2012 #139
patrice Mar 2012 #145
CBHagman Mar 2012 #146
BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2012 #149
K Gardner Mar 2012 #152
Catherine Vincent Mar 2012 #151
K Gardner Mar 2012 #156
vaberella Mar 2012 #167
surrealAmerican Mar 2012 #172
WI_DEM Mar 2012 #173
K Gardner Mar 2012 #182
devilgrrl Mar 2012 #176
Rex Mar 2012 #177
patrice Mar 2012 #189
K Gardner Mar 2012 #193
patrice Mar 2012 #196
arely staircase Mar 2012 #190
pacalo Mar 2012 #191
JI7 Mar 2012 #192
guitar man Mar 2012 #195
shadegrown tofu Mar 2012 #252
guitar man Mar 2012 #258
6000eliot Mar 2012 #222
Dawson Leery Mar 2012 #254
Rex Mar 2012 #255
loyalsister Mar 2012 #257
baldguy Mar 2012 #265
K Gardner Mar 2012 #267
Catherina Apr 2012 #268

Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:23 AM

1. existing while black

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Response to phantom power (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:25 AM

2. I'm trying to find a transcript, if not, I'll try to transcribe it

word-for-word.

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Response to phantom power (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:26 PM

166. Exactamundo nt

 

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Response to phantom power (Reply #1)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:21 PM

184. It actually begs the question.. what does THIS guy know and what did

Zimmerman tell him? Why hasn't he been questioned?

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:27 AM

3. This is what so scares me about living in Florida and the ease with which people can carry a gun

You just don't know WHO you will meet who will armed. Do you expect everyone in this state to carry a gun for self-defenese? I really, really do NOT LIKE that concept. It is one thing keep a gun INSIDE YOUR OWN HOME for your own protection. People walking around the streets with a gun? I don't like that one.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:29 AM

6. We have the same law in Tennessee - and legislatures keep easing

restrictions. We had one proposed a while back to allow people to carry guns in bars.

Boy howdy.

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:26 PM

61. .

Its been legal to carry a pistol into a bar here(Tenn) for about 18 months.

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #61)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:40 PM

81. LOL.. I guess I wasn't looking when that one passed :-) Thanks. n/t

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #61)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:47 PM

123. Go Vols!

Knoxville-native and UT grad here.

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #123)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:20 PM

183. Me too, Fawke !

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #6)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:33 PM

71. Guns in bars.

Now what could possibly go wrong?

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Response to Brigid (Reply #71)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:10 PM

134. Yeah, drunks and guns

Great combination.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #71)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:41 PM

154. Legal in Arizona.

But, you have to promise not to drink.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #71)

Sun Mar 25, 2012, 08:39 AM

261. You are not allowed to drink while carrying

In states that allow handguns in bars. It is a felony that WILL result in your going to prison. I know that in my CCW permit class, we were told that even touching an alcoholic drink (ie passing it to someone else, etc.) was breaking the law.

I do have a problem with people who want laws passed allowing weapons onto college campuses and in college dorms.

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Response to HockeyMom (Reply #3)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:20 PM

49. I carry everyday and everywhere I am allowed to in Florida. Even my store has a gun.

We just had a robbery a few stores down from ours. I expect that there are many who carry and am not surprised when I meet anyone who says they do. I reject the idea that everyone else who carries should be punished or condemned or put down because some asshole misused his right to carry. He clearly violated the training that one gets or should get before getting a permit to carry. You can not provoke a confrontation and then shoot someone because they came back at you. That sheriff should be fired and there should be charges brought up. Which charges I don't know but I would think negligent homicide at the least is in order. I resent the blanket anti gun angst. About 50% of DU members have a gun or guns. Police also misuse their guns. Do you feel uncomfortable when you are close to them? Oh yea they are trained more ...well that's a matter of who spends how much time at the range and takes on other training. I am a security guard. If anything the training courses one has to complete to receive a cwp should be more extensive with more law enforcement oversight. No one should take the right to carry lightly. No one should be trying to confront others so as to be able to use their gun.

Oh yea and ...if I were in a 711 and you were there at the counter and robber with a gun came in ...I would shoot him.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #49)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:24 PM

56. Or you would get us all killed while trying to go for your gun? nt

 

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Response to nanabugg (Reply #56)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:10 PM

162. Or, as a good friend ex-correctional officer

and ex-deputy sheriff once said to me, "he'd take that gun out of your hand and shove it up..." before you knew what was happening. Good luck then, Rambo.

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Response to nanabugg (Reply #56)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:57 PM

204. ...or the robber would shoot all the witnesses ...and the store clerk.

Have you even seen someone on meth?

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #204)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:20 AM

227. I have

As with someone under the influence of any powerful drug, anything can pop off(so I'm not disputing you--just felt like answering the question you asked someone else). In my experience, in most cases they're cowards. In general(from my experience) when they steal something, they do it when someone isn't looking and if someone is, they take off to avoid a beat down. Two-faced, lie to get what they want rather than be upfront like a real bad ass. Now if someone is generally a violent person sober, that stuff is a scary combination. Just talking about run-of-the-mill users.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #49)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:34 PM

74. I don't trust ANYONE with a gun. Period.

Cop, you, my own Mom -- a gun can be pointed right at me as easily as a "bad guy". I do not trust anyone who is so insecure they feel the need to carry all the time -- I have them in the family and they are some of the biggest idiots I know.

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #74)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:00 PM

206. Actually ...someone with a knife is more dangerous.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #49)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:37 PM

77. Sad life

 

To need to carry daily is just one more sign of a sick society, IMHO.

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Response to got root (Reply #77)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:59 PM

205. Maybe you could help by working with the religious right on that "sick society".

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Response to got root (Reply #77)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:34 PM

234. Sad yes, realistic? YES, HELL YES.

This IS a sick society and anyone who thinks otherwise
is in a state of dangerous delusion.

To carry in this society is self preservation IMO.
A realistic comprehension of just HOW sick our
society is and being prepared to deal with it should it
appear at your door.

Case in point:
This past Christmas there was a news story about a young mother
who shot and killed a man who kicked in her door.

Background details- her husband had recently died of cancer, within
days of Christmas as I recall. Shortly after the funeral a man
appeared in her yard saying he had been a friend of her husband
and wanted to stop by and offer his condolences.
She didn't buy it and quickly retreated back into her house.

A week later, as she sat at home with her newborn infant, she heard
men outside her house trying the windows and doors.
She called 9-11.
She asked the dispatcher what her rights were should the
men succeed in breaking into her house before the police got there.
The dispatcher told her, if they come through the door- shoot them.
They did and she did. She killed the original "visitor" with a single shotgun
blast.
I can just imagine what those men had in mind and I am damned glad
she had a shotgun to protect herself and her baby.

This is a very sick society and I fully comprehend the reasons
people feel the need to be able to protect themselves.

BHN

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #49)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:07 PM

103. I bet you've never experienced being robbed at gunpoint

I have. I was extremely pissed off after it happened, so pissed off in fact that I took off after the dude in my car with the intention of running his ass over. After about 3 seconds of that craziness it dawned on me that he had a gun and I didn't. After a little more reflecting it was apparent to me that if I did have a gun I'd probably have gotten myself shot, as it was I was out 50 bucks. Unless you've ever been in the situation you can't begin to understand how hard it is to control your emotion and act intelligently. Maybe if you have as much constant training as cops you might come out the winner without getting innocent bystanders hurt, but not with just the cursory training most people have.

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Response to groundloop (Reply #103)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:05 PM

148. this is a really useful insight

It's easy to think about how one would respond in a situation like that, because the adrenaline isn't flowing and the brain is working normally. I think somebody with a LOT of training could probably respond in a way we'd all like to think we would, but without a ton of practice I would think the gun hand would be wobbly... even getting the gun out of the holster would be difficult.

It's a lot like calling 911; in theory, it's as easy as pie, but in an emergency situation your hands are trembling, you can't find the phone quickly, your brain can't form words, etc etc.

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Response to groundloop (Reply #103)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:25 PM

150. Excellent post.. and sorry that happened to you. n/t

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Response to groundloop (Reply #103)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:12 PM

163. K&R. Best and most honest answer yet

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Response to groundloop (Reply #103)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:56 PM

203. You can bet all you want.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #49)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:15 PM

109. 'That sheriff should be fired..." ??? Zimmerman wasn't a sheriff

He appears to just be a volunteer, who appointed himself to the job. I have not heard of any real "employment" Zimmerman has, or had. But I too believe he should be arrested. Aggravated assault and murder works for me.

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Response to AnotherDreamWeaver (Reply #109)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 06:33 PM

194. So, HOW exactly does that work? If it wasn't his employment ... ? He just starts showing up in a

neighborhood in which he does not live . . . ?

Very strange.

How does he pay for his vehicle? gas? weapon? Cash, under-the-table?

I do not understand.

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Response to patrice (Reply #194)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:43 PM

199. I read he had lived in the area, but left after the incident.

Now I just read he had been in college: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002457727

He was just a 'volunteer' though, and the neighborhood wasn't registered with the state Neighborhood Watch Association was the report.

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Response to AnotherDreamWeaver (Reply #199)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:12 PM

207. There are so many questions. I wonder if, as you say, "the area" = the gated-community in which his

crime occurred, or was the gated-community only one part of the larger area of which he WAS a member.

Trying to understand this gated-community aspect here. That usually implies money and I don't associate Z. with money, so did he or did he not live where the crime occurred. Trying to understand WHAT put him there to threaten, and potentially murder, other citizens. Even if it isn't money, I'm just having a hard time understanding how anyone just completely independently starts hanging out at all hours, with a gun, in an area that is worried about that sort of thing, and is not one's residence. How long did he do this? Did he actually apprehend other for real criminals there, anywhere? How many?

Z. did this completely by himself, no feedback, no validation, no other involvement, no support of any kind? Really?

Doesn't add up.

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Response to patrice (Reply #207)

Sun Mar 25, 2012, 08:47 AM

262. Gated communities don't equal money

Some gated communities are for the very rich, but most are for regular middle class and bluecollar folks. You generally just have a barcode decal on your car that's read by a scanner, or a card swipe. Some have a main gate with security that allows certain people in, and some just have a gate or two where your visitors, UPS, etc. punch in a code.

HOA fees are usually a few hundred to a $1,500 a year, and pay for things like trash pickup, security, a pool and clubhouse, etc.

Zimmerman declared himself a neighborhood watch, but he wasn't an official one, which are trained and registered with law enforcement. Even residents of the community complained about him.

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Response to AnotherDreamWeaver (Reply #109)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:54 PM

201. I never said Zimmerman was a sheriff.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #201)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:32 PM

219. OK, well, the police chief took leave or something,

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Response to AnotherDreamWeaver (Reply #109)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:40 PM

211. I think he means the police chief. nt

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #49)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:34 PM

114. Oh yeah! Have you ever heard from anyone that carried a gun

 

that was NOT a responsible gun owner? What a bunch of bullshit.

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Response to xtraxritical (Reply #114)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:55 PM

202. Yes I have ...and the bull shit is all yours.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #49)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:47 PM

213. I don't have a carry license, but I have a gun. I'm from Louisiana...

and was sort of raised around guns. It's like being raised in an area where it rains a lot: you learn to respect wet roads. When you're raised around guns, you learn to respect them and realize what they are for, how they should be used, etc.

Others who are not raised that way may not understand this viewpoint of guns. I've pulled a gun on a guy trying to break into my apartment. Had I not had that gun,no telling what would've happened. It's an equalizer, for a woman, who is a sitting duck for any man who decides to do her harm.

I get your point and totally agree. I wouldn't make a long car trip w/o a gun. It's a jungle out there, whether we like it or not. It seems pretty normal to me for normal households to have guns for protection. Of course, they need to learn how to use them.

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Response to Honeycombe8 (Reply #213)

Sun Mar 25, 2012, 08:52 AM

263. I agree with you

If you are raised with them and around them, especially in a household where you are taught gun safety and respect for what the guns can do, it's just part of your life. I do understand how people not raised with them feel differently.

I have a CCW permit, and that loaded 9 mm in always tucked between my seat and the center console thing when I drive alone on the interstate. Too many women have gone missing.

Zimmerman had no respect for his weapon and what it could do, nor for his responsibilities as a gun owner. How he ever got a CCW after hitting a LEO is beyond me.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #49)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:12 PM

236. We often play the hero in our imaginations.

We often play the hero in our imaginations. It's human nature to see ourselves in the best possible light, and to validate ourselves though fictional scenarios-- it's human nature. And sometimes we even believe ourselves...

Thank goodness our imaginations are where it usually stops, else these Zimmerman stories would be increasing exponentially.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:27 AM

4. Translation: If he hadn't got all uppity.

We have NO responsibility to answer ANY questions from random people while walking down the street. Even if it's a cop we only have limited responsibility.

And zimm wasn't no cop.

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:36 AM

19. EXACTLY what I said downthread, Ret5HD.

E.X.A.C.T.L.Y!

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:04 PM

26. Are you Black?

 

Would you honestly tell that to your child, if so? I would tell my child that you never know who's gonna do what and so it's best to be respectful to others, even though they might not be talking to you in a l polilte manner.

(By the way, this even applies to criminals who try to steal something from you. As my bf says: "whoever has the gun is the boss." )

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Response to ret5hd (Reply #4)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:49 PM

157. Yeah, what right does a Zimmerman-type have to ask why we are walking

down the sidewalk minding our own business?

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Response to indepat (Reply #157)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:03 PM

178. None. No right whatsoever to ask.

Last time I checked, this was America and not Communist China.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:28 AM

5. DefCon 5 was the LOWEST defense condition and it = situation normal.

WTF?

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #5)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:30 AM

8. Evidently the neighbor didn't know his Defcon Numbers.. but he

sure knew that his good friend George Zimmerman would never have done anything like this unless the kid was at fault (for walking while black).

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:18 PM

110. most of us know Defcon numbers from the movie "War Games"

The movie got the order wrong, made Defcon 5 the highest level, and Defcon 1 was normal.

To be fair to the moviemakers though, it does make more sense that way.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #110)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:14 PM

137. I believe there's actually a law that says movies actually have to change stuff like that around

Military uniforms, for example, can be very close to the real thing but not quite. There always has to be something on them that's not quite right to differentiate it from the real thing.

DefCon levels for example, well, they can show the DefCon system but not the correct order of defense states.

At least this is what my roommate, who was in the Navy for eight years, told me.

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Response to Downtown Hound (Reply #137)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:15 AM

220. Well on the DVD, the commentary from the producers

said that they just got it wrong. Perhaps it was more highly classified at the time, so they could not find out.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #110)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:36 PM

153. It was a basically a count-down to nuclear war...

It think it's interesting that you see counting up as more sensible.

Maybe that suggests we aren't so prone to worrying about countdowns to war.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #153)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:21 AM

221. I hate that phrase though

before the Iraq war, CBS news began every broadcast with "Countdown to war".

Well, a countdown is inevitable, inexorable. So CBS news spents months basically telling their viewers "We are going to goto war with Iraq. It's only a matter of time."

For me, it just stands to reason that Defcon 3 would be a higher level of alert than Defcon 1, and that when things got more serious, you would raise the level.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #221)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 08:05 AM

223. It's interesting to me how number sequences can be seen...

I understand how a bigger number can represent more and so a bigger/increasing number seems more serious.

I also understand how a smaller number can represent less and a smaller/decreasing number means a smaller distance or time from some thing.

The choice of what to use to represent a circumstance is a choice. Everyone concerned would quickly understand which illusion was in play. During the coldwar lots of things were 'countdown' including the Union of Concerned Scientists clock. Many of the guys in my unit had countdown calendars to the day they got to return home from participation in that little scuff-up in Vietnam.

Was that because that generation was conditioned to countdowns in NASA's space program or something else?



Re the Iraq War, considering Cheney's influence and desires, the march to war with Iraq probably WAS inevitable.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #223)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:20 PM

229. war with Iraq probably was inevitable

but a media framing like that only helps to make it more so. Myself, I went to an anti-war rally hoping to stop the war.

I would say that two other things were true, besides the truth that "Bush is probably going to order the invasion of Iraq".

It was also true that
1. We did not have to do it.
and
2. We should not have done it.

Maybe if CBS news had started each broadcast with "Countdown to Impeachment" they could have made that happen instead.

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Response to hfojvt (Reply #229)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 02:04 PM

230. I'm sure that's one countdown I would have favored.

I totally agree with both 1 and 2.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:30 AM

7. I certainly wouldn't want to live in an area where I am subject spot interrogation....

.....by random people who really have no business or authority to question me.

And I rather doubt most people would be comfortable with a stranger coming up to them and essentially saying "Halt! State your name and your business here!"

That includes anyone who says "If he had just answered in an appropriate manner....".

From my viewpoint, an "appropriate response" as a free citizen to such an inquiry is "None of god-damned business!"

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Response to Liberal Veteran (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:31 AM

13. Bingo. Also, some reports say Zimmerman wasn't even part of the

neighborhood watch. This guy says he was "captain" of it, or head of it.

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #13)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:30 PM

168. Yeah apparently it was confirmed. He was self-appointed but not on the team. n/t

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Response to Liberal Veteran (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:03 PM

99. Who watches the Watchmen?




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Response to Liberal Veteran (Reply #7)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:44 PM

119. actually I sorta gave the same answer to a cop back in 1986

It was 2 a.m. and I had an upset stomach. So I walked half a mile or so to the grocery store which was open 24/7 and bought some soda. Threw up again in the gutter on my way home. Three blocks later I notice I am being followed by a slow moving vehicle. Kinda relieved when it turned out to be the police and not some thugs looking to jump me. Unfortunately, it turned out to be a thug with a badge. Oh, he got all high and mighty when I asked him "why?" when he asked for ID.

What can I say, it was too close to 1984 and I never heard of any law that says you need ID to walk on the streets, even at 2 a.m.

Still, I am not gonna start a fight with somebody who asks a question or two, or even with somebody who grabs my arm. I apologized to the cop to keep him from beating me up, but still wish I had gotten his badge number. Who knows though, he may have beaten me up if I had asked for it.

Funny thing is, about 9 out of 10 people I have told this story to, took the side of the cop. And these people are supposed to be MY friends.

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Response to Liberal Veteran (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 25, 2012, 08:56 AM

264. The only person you have to answer to is law enforcement

I would never give my ID to a security guard, either. I would ask them, politely, to call a police officer.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:30 AM

9. If those friggin gated communities want...

people watching then they should put their money where their mouths are and hire real security, imho.

Why should anyone have to answer anything to a friggin person who has no legal authority?

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Response to Little Star (Reply #9)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:51 PM

89. A civil suit for wrongful death against the gated community may be in order.

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Response to kiranon (Reply #89)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:56 PM

92. Good thought!

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:30 AM

10. Yeah, he should have said "yassuh, massa I's sorry"

Mr Taffe sounds just like another scared bigot.

Did you really expect Anderson Cooper, or anybody else on CNN, to challenge this idiot?

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Response to tularetom (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:32 AM

14. +1 n/t

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Response to tularetom (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:33 AM

15. +2 (we need like buttons for comments) n/t

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Response to tularetom (Reply #10)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:06 PM

28. What about his school suspension?

 

His parents are mum on why he had been suspended. Maybe there is something in between "yes suh massa" and lack of cooperation? (By the way, don't you DARE turn this into something where I defend Zimmerman. I am simply addressing YOUR over-the-top remark.)

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:10 PM

35. What does his school suspension have to do with getting shot? n/t

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Response to ceile (Reply #35)


Response to lose the pain body (Reply #37)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:15 PM

44. And again- nothing to do with him getting shot. n/t

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #37)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:27 PM

64. You are not going to like this but your comment is in fact a text book example of racism

Under what basis, can you look at someone, and ascertain whether they are or are not an "angel", unless you are racially profiling them?

Where he was walking was not in fact a true gated community, he was on a public transit path and he is not required to answer to any civilian as to what he was doing.

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Response to ceile (Reply #35)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:20 PM

50. Well, you see

kids who are suspended for being tardy aren't allowed to be out on the street buying candy and ice tea from the local store

Interesting that Zimmerdick was allowed to have a gun permit with his assault record....

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:25 PM

57. He was suspended for being late to school too many times

Stupid policy.

Trayvon — who was known as "Tray" or "Slimm" — played youth football during his early teens and helped his father coach Little League baseball, said Fulton, whose sister, Sybrina Fulton, is Trayvon's mother.

Trayvon was under a five-day suspension when he was shot that Sunday night, but Kypriss said it was due to tardiness and not misbehavior.

"Trayvon was not a violent or dangerous child. He was not known for misbehaving," the teacher said. "He was suspended because he was late too many times."

More: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-17/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-tensions-20120317_1_shooting-death-english-teacher-uncle







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Response to csziggy (Reply #57)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:49 PM

88. And this has always struck me as a stupid policy.

So a kid is repeatedly tardy to class, missing out on minutes of instruction and his punishment is to be forced to miss even more DAYS of school.

Saturday school or afterschool detention would have been a better consequence.

Thank you for pointing out that this young man was not a behavioral problem as some may have believed.

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Response to Tatiana (Reply #88)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:02 PM

98. From what I've read this was a really good kid

And he will be missed by his teachers and classmates.

I read somewhere (but didn't try to find the source) that Trayvon's mother drove him to school and it was because of her being late that made him tardy. He was an A and B student - a better punishment would have been for him to tutor other kids or some other constructive project.

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Response to Tatiana (Reply #88)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:17 PM

231. Free public education malls, open 8a - 8p, 365. Cradle to grave free education.

Just FUND them then teach those who show up.

Fuck the factory/profit "education" model.

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Response to csziggy (Reply #57)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:15 PM

247. WRONG! Even his own father said something completely different.

 

His mother said that. His father said he had been suspended for ten days for being in an "unauthorized area" yet would not elaborate. To be suspended that long either involves something violent (which his father denies), stealing (his father says no)...But why not clear it up? One other possibility is graffiti.

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Response to rainy day woman 69 (Reply #247)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:25 PM

249. His father was not the custodial parent and may not have known the exact reason

"He was extremely creative," said Michelle Kypriss, Trayvon's English teacher at Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in Miami. "He just loved building things. He really was intrigued by how things worked."

She described Trayvon, a junior, as an A and B student who majored in cheerfulness.

<SNIP>

Trayvon was under a five-day suspension when he was shot that Sunday night, but Kypriss said it was due to tardiness and not misbehavior.

"Trayvon was not a violent or dangerous child. He was not known for misbehaving," the teacher said. "He was suspended because he was late too many times."
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-17/news/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-tension-20120317_1_shooting-death-english-teacher-uncle

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Response to csziggy (Reply #249)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:40 PM

253. That article's a week old, m'dear!

 

I will post the Miami-Herald one, which contradicts the mother's claim that it was her fault that he was tardy, and that it had nothing to do with tardies at all. Ten-day suspension for being in an unauthorized area and the father won't elaborate. Why? Because it would make Trayvon look bad? Because the lawyer might have said that they cannot allow anything contrary to the image they project of him. I think it's a mistake. If Zimmerman is guilty, then you don't need to make Tray perfect to have Zimmerman indicted.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html

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Response to shadegrown tofu (Reply #253)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:34 PM

256. I'll believe the quote from the teacher at the school

Again, the father is not the custodial parent. He may not have the full story.

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Response to rainy day woman 69 (Reply #247)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 01:48 PM

250. You created an account just to revive this thread and slam a murdered child?

Enjoy your stay.

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #250)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:10 PM

251. She's gone. Again.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:26 PM

62. You are ALL OVER THIS THREAD criticizing this Murdered Boy and

defending his murderer. WTF is wrong with you?

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #62)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 12:17 PM

248. Tell me how I criticize the victim.

 

I am just not ready to indict Zimmerman, especially when we are hearing conflicting info about Tray's suspension. I suspect it's to make him seem above reproach (like the younger pic used all over) and Zimmerman is sheer evil. That is wrong and let's allow justice to play itself out. I don't want riots, do you?

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Response to rainy day woman 69 (Reply #248)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 08:53 PM

259. It tickles me to no end to see all of the "angst" over the "younger pic" used

to depict Trayvon.

There have been several pictures used and the most frequently used one is the one of him in the hoodie which is a recent picture.

The racists, err... I mean the "concerned citizens" who are just busted up that these "younger" pics of Trayvon are used never, EVER seem to have any concern that the pic of Zimmerman is from 2005. I can pretty much guarantee that pic of him is much older than any pics we've seen of Trayvon. But God forbid anyone use a picture of that beautiful boy smiling. I think that is the source of so much "concern" over the older pics of Trayvon being used -- they show that he was a gorgeous boy with a sweet smile, an actual HUMAN BEING and not the figure of fear and loathing that we are constantly being bombarded to think of black men/boys as in this country. Oh Lord no, we can't have that.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #259)

Sun Mar 25, 2012, 06:54 AM

260. I have no idea why they are trying to smear Trayvon's reputation now, after he is dead.

His teacher said this about him --

She described Trayvon, a junior, as an A and B student who majored in cheerfulness.


I know that no high school teacher of mine would have said that about me.
Not even my favorite teacher would have said that about me.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #260)

Sun Mar 25, 2012, 05:07 PM

266. Smearing his reputation is the first tactic to discrediting the international

and yes I truly mean INTERNATIONAL, wave of support that he and his family are receiving.

If they can do the "Trayvon was a thug" route (and there are so many simply itching to do this) they honestly believe that this will somehow exonerate not only Zimmerman but the US's reputation as a whole of being a bastion of racism.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:38 PM

79. lame

 

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:34 PM

113. Perhaps because that is none of your fucking business?n/t

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:08 PM

133. Um, I got suspended from school once

I wasn't aware that that means somebody has to the right to just stop me and interrogate me and then when I show some attitude to that they can just shoot me.

I can't believe you even brought this up. Shame on you.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:51 PM

158. Lol boy gets suspended from school. therefore he must be such an asshole he deserves getting shot...

Right. Brilliant Logic.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:14 PM

164. Why yes he was. In fact Glen Beck

posited that it had been because he was 1) guilty of murder or 2) guilty of rape or 3) guilty of armed robbery. BTW, the reason he was suspended was for getting to school late. Obviously a hardened, dangerous criminal.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:34 PM

169. You're funny. Did you read your absurd question?

I need to ask you...What authority does Zimmerman have to have Trayvon cooperate with him? Zimmerman is a nobody, no cop, no FBI, no real authority to ask Trayvon for anything. Shit.

You do realize you're blaming the victim by suggesting his lack of cooperation is his problem.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:32 PM

185. His school suspension was over being late...not problem behavior.

I notice that everyone on here who wants to make sly comments about this kid are new posters with less than 20 post. I guess Stormfront was slow today?

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Response to Lilyeye (Reply #185)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:06 AM

225. Honey, save that mess for someone else

 

I am a progressive.

When asked about Trayvon's suspension, both the school AND his parents were mum. I don't know where that urban myth began that he was suspended for excessive tardies. His suspension was for TEN days, not five. No one gets a ten-day suspension for simply being late.
Even Tray's own FATHER says in a Miami Herald article I just pulled up (dated 3/22), that the suspension was not anything related to violence but refused to provide further details. Why?! He mentions something about being in an unauthorized area of the school-did he steal something? Again, not that it would deserve the death penalty, but I am getting very tired of the media being one-sided and perhaps painting a racial case where there not be one! Using a younger picture (instead of Tray in a hoodie, which doesn't make him look as non-threatening as in the uniform), whitewashing his suspension...Let the facts play out but don't you DARE misrepresent them!
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html

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Response to im in you ur in me (Reply #225)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 12:37 PM

228. Stormfront boring today? How about you save your mess for someone else troll.

I don't mind hearing the facts, but your tone speaks volume for a poster with 2 post. Then on top of that you're defending and backing up another troll who was banned? Interesting. Regardless...the kid still was not doing anything that bad or involved in bad behavior. Clearly he wasn't stealing if his father said it wasn't a crime. The fact that you needed to tell me you're a progressive first says it all lol

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:23 AM

224. Right.

What about his school suspension?

Why should he have been expected to cooperate with a stranger (could have been a robber) or suffer deadly consequences?

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:20 PM

232. Who gives a MOTHERFUCK about his school suspension? What's wrong with you?

Yeah, I just dared. Your move, pain.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #232)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 03:25 PM

233. oops....I see this POS has been tombstoned, without an "ex" Freeper having the chance to defend him

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:28 PM

238. yes, you are indeed defending zimmerman

this boy was under NO obligation to answer any questions asked by some random stranger he didn't know.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #28)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:41 PM

244. zimmerman had prior ARRESTS...not sure if he was ever suspended for being late to school though


City commissioners issued a vote of no confidence on Wednesday. Mayor Jeff Triplett has said he thinks it is time for the police chief to go. The department is coming under fire for some false statements made to the Martin’s parents. They also allegedly tested Martin for drugs and alcohol after his death, but failed to do so with Zimmerman.

Police originally told Martin’s parents that Zimmerman had a clean record. That information has turned out to be false. In 2005 a woman accused Zimmerman of domestic violence and had an injunction filed against him. The month prior he had been arrested for shoving a police officer at a bar near the University of Central Florida.

Zimmerman’s prior records seem to indicate an aggressive and potentially violent man. Given the accounts of what happened the night Trayvon Martin was murdered, a pattern of behavior can be discerned. Zimmerman followed the boy even after 911 dispatchers told him not to. He continued following after the boy started to run away. He was looking for trouble.

http://www.northmobilepost.com/tag/george-zimmerman-arrested/

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:31 AM

11. Horrible. Ugly racism. Disgusting.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:13 PM

40. Did you get your outrage fix for the day?

 

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #40)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:35 PM

242. listen troll: racist murders are outrageous

so are racist cops who allow murders to go free without investigating. so are racist laws. if you aren't outraged by this murder, you are most likely a racist too.

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Response to yardwork (Reply #11)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:47 PM

122. From what I heard on the news (CNN) Zimmerman

 

called the police to report suspicious behavior 46 times in the last year. All the calls were recorded. In every call he made the police asked him what race the suspicious individual was and in each case the answer was black. They played about 5 of these recordings on air and it was true in each case. I just got back from Florida a couple of months ago, and I knew nothing of these concealed carry laws, man am I glad I'm to hell out of there. A "well regulated militia" this is not. FUCK FUCKING GUNS.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:31 AM

12. subtext: know your place, boy

and fuck AC for not tearing this fool a new one.

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Response to frylock (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:15 PM

43. Our "place" as human being is to be civilized.

 

Being Black and having a history of oppression is no excuse for being mouthy to an asswipe. I bet most Black parents tell their children and teens to put their hands up if the cops come at them. No lip, no moves, just OBEY. Because IF there are racist cops, that's all they need is one cuss word, one false move.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:31 PM

69. How quaint

The very behavioral response you describe is exactly what one would define as "know your place boy". You describe to a tee, racism, and yet can not see it.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #69)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:10 PM

106. Actually, as Hispanic mothers, that's what we tell our kids

My kids are half-white, but my son "tans well." My half-siblings were half-Cajun and married Hispanics and African-Americans and their kids are dark. In the mostly Anglo neighborhood we lived in back in the 90s, we had a couple of white kids that would vandalize the neighborhood and be wandering up and down the street until the wee hours of the morning. But, who did the local cops stop all the time? My son and my biracial nephew. They'd be walking down the street with backpacks filled with their fishing gear and they'd get stopped and made to open their backpacks; they'd take the shortcut through the alley from the street and a cruiser would follow them and question them. My son was even in front of our home on the sidewalk one time and two cops stopped to ask him what he was doing there. I finally confronted them at that time and told them I was going to report them for being child molesters. But, I always did tell them to speak to the cops respectfully because they have all the power and they have the guns. And in a court of law, they always believe the cop. My grand-nephews were stopped at a traffic sign last year and the officer told my grandnephew driving that he hadn't made a complete stop. My grandnephew said he had. The cop said you had to stop for a full 20 seconds. The hell! When my grandnephew decided to be a smartass and say, "I could microwave a pizza in 20 seconds," they were both arrested.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #69)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:37 PM

171. That is exactly what they're taught in order to come back home to their mother alive...

Instead of a body bag. The White woman talk is the better of the two IMO.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:37 PM

78. George Zimmerman.. is that you?? n/t

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:59 PM

94. Enjoy your stay

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:04 PM

102. Being A Cop Is No Excuse to be Mouthy, Asswipe

but many are.
My nephew dreamed of being a cop - when that dream came true, he turned into a racist asshole.

Oh and P.S. - buh bye

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:04 PM

147. So many options depend upon what/whose game one plays. Get suckered, or intentionally choose, THEIR

game and odds are that you will lose and very possibly lose very big.

If one has matured enough to know one's own game well enough, there are options to outplay THEIR game and walk away so much the winner that they don't even know that they, in their own terms, "lost".

Stuff gets escalated too often into a pissing contest, which always "ends" (not really) badly, before many people can figure out their own game.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:00 PM

175. troll harder, please

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #43)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:32 PM

218. And it was not civilized of Zimmerman to chase Martin around the neighborhood that night

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Response to frylock (Reply #12)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:28 PM

66. Anderson may not have understood what that guy was saying

AC is from the north, white, privileged. He would not have a clue what that sort of language would mean in terms of Southern attitudes towards black men. I think most of the time he tries, but it's a long way to go for someone of his background.

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Response to csziggy (Reply #66)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:42 PM

143. Uh, not buying it -

I'm from a privleged, white, northern background and I sure as hell understood what 'If Trayvon had only answered appropriately' meant.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:33 AM

16. I heard that too and the first thing in my mind was "ain't this some "ish"?"

Perfect storm, defcon 5 and what he really meant was not ""If Trayvon had only answered in an appropriate manner; if he had been up front and truthful about why he was there, there would have been no problem but, "IF TRAYVON HADN'T BEEN SO UPPITY..." That's what he really meant to say. That's what he meant, people.

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Response to Ecumenist (Reply #16)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:49 AM

22. We will probably never know the truth of what really happened.. because

the only eye witness is George Zimmerman. I think the young man was murdered in cold blood.

Zimmerman will never admit that. But perhaps he should spend a long time in prison, thinking about it.

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #22)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:18 PM

47. yes

a long time in prison with some black inmates!

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Response to Ecumenist (Reply #16)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:07 PM

235. So anyone who thinks that there are a variety of responses, other than "Fuck you!", many of which

could have preserved not only the young-man's dignity as a human being but ALSO his life, is a racist . . . ?

Tell his mother that.

............................................

No one is trying to excuse Z. He is the ARMED adult, ergo, he bears ****ALL**** of the responsibility for what happened to Trayvon. I personally believe that Z. is a murderer.

What some of us are interested in is how our prejudices about one another INCREASE the likelihood that this kind of thing will repeat itself, until we have a full blown race-war. It's called "Self-fulfilling Prophecy" and it is highly supported by research in social psychology.

One of the things that appears to be repeating itself is the assumption that Z's aggression REQUIRES an aggressive response and ONLY an aggressive response. That's something that is going to get a lot of people killed, WITHOUT furthering the cause of Justice for victims of prejudice, and that's a very very very sad thing purely for all of the pain, destruction, and defeat it deals into ALL lives and also because it COULD very definitely be otherwise for those who want that difference and want justice enough to make it so.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:34 AM

17. so, mr taffe knows how trayvon answered? how's that mr taffe? and what is the 'appropriate manner'?

mr taffe?

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Response to spanone (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:49 AM

23. At the very least, you'd think Cooper would've asked

"How do you know that Mr. Martin's manner was 'inappropriate'?"

Something along those lines seems like a basic follow-up question to Taffe's claim.

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Response to deutsey (Reply #23)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:46 PM

84. I would have liked to hear more of the interview.

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Response to spanone (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:12 PM

36. The "appropriate" way --

Would have been for Trayvon to shuffle around a bit, hold his hat in his hands, and say, "Yessuh" and "Nosuh", and maybe roll his eyes around, too.

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #36)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:38 PM

116. That seems about right...

These racist fools cannot even see that the very idea of blaming the victim is part and parcel of the problem.

There can be no peace in a country that expects young black men to obligingly and symbolically call themselves "Toby" in order to avoid being shot dead in cold blood for being armed with Skittles. The only thing I have yet to hear is some redneck asshat describe a recent incident where a black male killed someone with his bare heads while chewing on Skittles...

Bottom line - use of deadly force while chasing someone is never excusable. Zimmerman admitted on tape and live during the event that he was chasing Martin. END. OF. STORY. Reasonable cause for a grand jury indictment is already in the 911 tapes.

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Response to Moostache (Reply #116)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:47 PM

124. "These racist fools cannot even see that the very idea of blaming the victim..."

is part and parcel of the problem."

Exactly.

As a woman in America, I can relate 100%.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:36 AM

18. I'm not surprised at all that there weren't any follow up questions. He's just another newsmodel,

like the rest of them.

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Response to Guy Whitey Corngood (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:58 PM

174. +1000

As a former journalist, this era of cable hosts NEVER asking anything challenging or following up makes me sick...It's one of the reasons the Sarah Palins and other fundie nutbars of the world build up so much credibility even after saying the Earth is flat in front of millions of viewers while the host just nods and moves on to the next question...

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:42 AM

20. The Appropriate Answer, Sir, Is 'None Of Your Fucking Business'

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #20)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:06 PM

29. No, that is rudeness that any parent

 

(responsible, non-chip-on-her-shoulder) would eshew.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:09 PM

31. Cause a Black Man always has to be polite.

Right? Especially to The Man. Yeegads, someone shut the cave door....

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #31)


Response to lose the pain body (Reply #34)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:13 PM

38. Uh yeah, right.

Really, go back to whatever rock you crawled out from.

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #38)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:16 PM

45. The fact that you think you're entitled to be rude to others because of how they treat

 

you is very telling. Please tell me you don't have children. We are spiritual beings living a human existence. We have to be the bigger person.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #45)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:41 PM

82. As If You're Exhibiting Positive Spirituality On This Thread....... (n/t)

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Response to Paladin (Reply #82)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:48 PM

87. It Is, Sir, At Least Now In The Spirit World....

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #31)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:16 PM

180. Everyone should be polite.

Not only is it a mark of civilized society, but nothing annoys someone being rude more than to be unfailingly polite in return!

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #31)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:22 PM

237. It IS possible that some people are thinking that ANYONE in that position should do what it takes

to protect themselves from the aggressor's gun.

Some of us are also thinking that that CAN be done and still protect one's dignity as a human being. There are more than two responses to the situation (more than acquiescence or aggression) and assuming that persons-of-color cannot/must-not avail themselves of those many other alternatives, no matter what the consequences, appears to be another form of prejudice. Further exploitation of victims.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:26 PM

60. That Is The Appropriate Answer, Ma'am, and What Anyone Interfering With A Stranger Should Expect

To approach a stranger on the sidewalk and ask what he or she is doing there on the public way is an extremity of rudeness that not only deserves but requires inflicting immediate shaming on the miscreant.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #60)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:48 PM

144. Yes and perhaps you will yeild that, amongst all possible reactions to this answer, that particular

form of the message is more likely to elicit additional emotional effects in the message recipient that certain other forms of the message, such as "That's none of your business ... " are less likely to elicit compared to "That's none of YOUR FUCKING business."

Of course, ALL adults absolutely bear the major burden of the responsibility for whatever transpires between themselves and others and especially for what happens between themselves and minors.

And yes!!, youngsters, by virtue of their lack of breadth and depth of experience, MUST!! NOT!! be punished for their lack of the realization that their own responses to such arbitrarily assaultive challenges can perpetuate, and thus magnify, the SAME reflexively diminuitive assertions of personal power that are initiated by the assailant, in their own responses to that assault, e.g. "none of YOUR FUCKING business".

The interaction thus becomes about a particular, more aggressive, form of autonomous action rather than prioritizing autonomy itself which CAN assert itself in an extremely wide variety of other more effective modes.

Let me be clear; it is the adult's responsibility to figure this stuff out, to apply it appropriately, and to foster this understanding amongst others, especially with socially active minors.

Too bad there weren't any authentically adequate adults present that night and that those who SHOULD have functioned in that role, the neighborhood association and the police department, CHOSE plausible deniability, a.k.a. passing the buck to a less than adequate scapegoat who fucked it up horribly, rather than doing the right thing by their own responsibilities, such as being aware that Zimmerman was carrying a lethal weapon and accepting their own accountability for facts that they KNEW about Zimmerman, such as his hair trigger call-rate.

This horror **IS** Zimmerman's fault, but he didn't get into this situation ALL BY HIMSELF and the very same abdication of responsibility that we see in prioritization of personal insults over successful/effective outcomes is reflected in the roles that were abdicated by the community in this situation.

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Response to patrice (Reply #144)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:45 PM

155. People Who Accost Strangers In Public, Sir, Ought To Be Made To Feel Small

They ought to feel reduced, dismissed, diminished, and so be assisted to understand that they are utterly and absolutely out of line, acting beyond the proper bounds of civil behavior, and ought not in future ever feel so above themselves and their station that they would dare to repeat the offense.

The only response possibly more proper than 'None of your fucking business!' is no response at all, in line with the adage that "Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn."

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #155)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:57 PM

160. Not an absolute. Some of us feel that private victories can be the sweetest. That said, it is

possible to do what you prescribe without risking one's life.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #155)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:08 PM

161. Such behaviors aren't always about that particular person feeling "above themselves and their

station" and your assumption that such behavior always are about that is kind of elitist, isn't it?

Given the lack of personal information, how is your assertion different from theirs?

Your assertion looks like a stereotype, the very thing that I guess you object to in your reaction to what you assume is their assumption that they are "above" someone else.

Some people are like what you claim, others aren't. Not establishing the difference perpetuates the wrong.

IMO, perhaps most people aren't like what you claim, in that such assertions of power, perhaps more often than not, come from inferiority that is trying to redress itself and, because it IS inferiority, it redresses its wrongs in a dysfunctional manner, thus perpetuating them, as all shall soon see in what happens to Mr. Zimmerman.

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Response to patrice (Reply #161)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:34 PM

170. My Assertion, Sir, is Simply That People Have A Right To Go About their Peaceable Way Without Bother

And that people who accost or otherwise interfere with people doing so are trouble-making fools who badly need to be shut down and taught better behavior.

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #170)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:34 PM

186. Agreed. With the caution that that way should, in fact, be peaceable and not visit, intentionally or

out of habitual assumptions or ignorance, any of the violence (assumptions) upon others that one abhors from others.

Just an elaboration upon the golden rule, here; if one desires respect one should be as respectful of others as possible under the specific circumstances and that means not making anymore assumptions (i.e. the essence of disrespect) than absolutely necessary about others/situations. And my point in beating this point over the head is that such awareness will, more often than not, better, more functionally, suit one's own options for fulfilling individual desires for freedom/autonomy/respect/life-liberty-&-the-pursuit-of-happiness than any degree of un-awareness will. Treating people as stereotypes, i.e. how one does not wish to be treated by them, only perpetuates oppression and damages the possibility of authentic justice, not only for the authentically guilty, but also for the innocents such as Trayvon Martin.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:32 PM

70. Why do you say her?

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:00 PM

96. It appears Mr. Zimmerman was a self appointed "Watchman"

He had no uniform to identify him as anything. Mr. Martin had every right to ask why he was being stalked. Have you followed what Trayvon's girlfriend has said, who was on the phone with him and heard the conversation?

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Response to AnotherDreamWeaver (Reply #96)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:53 PM

159. Yes, so TM's reaction, whatever it was, is justifiable. But WHO in the neighborhood knew

of Zimmerman's activities, who took advantage of WHATEVER he was doing, without providing any over-sight? How did the neighborhood interact with Zimmerman, reinforce his self-appointment as local hero? Did he live there? Who had contact with him and could have known that he was carrying a lethal weapon FOR his role as "watchman"?

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Response to patrice (Reply #159)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 06:12 PM

187. One of the first articles I read after hearing news of the tapes on the radio,

was that Zimmerman had shut off his telephone, (the number was on the tape,) and that he had moved from his residence. The father released a letter to the media, I'm just imagining he may have lived with his father. I haven't read any mention of his employment, and I think if he had any it would have been mentioned. Could it be his employer was one of those 'black box' firms? Is that what you're thinking?

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Response to AnotherDreamWeaver (Reply #187)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 06:22 PM

188. Yes, that kind of stuff. Have you tried to get a job lately? Personality assessments are

proliferating.

Zimmerman didn't live in the neighborhood he was watching, did he? Zimmerman's neighborhood watch wasn't an "official" watch was it? Wouldn't the neighborhood association who hired the watch have known that?

Sorry, I am not excusing Zimmerman in any way shape or form. When you take responsibility for something as lethal as the weapon he used, you fucking better well be honest enough with yourself to know if you're up to that responsibility or not and not rely on plausible deniability to get you through the sticky-wicketts, but I think plausible deniability is a highly marketable commodity, so I imagine lots of different kinds of actors, from police departments, to private security businesses, to criminal elements all rely on it, so if all of us just make this thing about Z, I don't think we will advance the causes of justice very well.

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Response to AnotherDreamWeaver (Reply #187)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 06:54 PM

197. Could neighborhood legal involvement be one of the reasons PD was trying to bury it?

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Response to patrice (Reply #197)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:52 PM

200. This is referred to as a 'gated community'

But I'm not sure what that means. The sidewalk he was on was a public way according to reports I've read or heard on the radio. I don't know what kind of community it is, but it seems to have a board of directors. But they didn't pay Z, he was a volunteer that just took the "job" on.

I wonder how many classes he was taking at college.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002457727

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Response to AnotherDreamWeaver (Reply #200)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:24 PM

208. Someone lies in wait with a gun, for FREE? What does that say about motive?

Why didn't that set off all kinds of alarms?

All of his phone calls to police.

Why didn't someone think to get him off the streets, before someone got hurt?

I just do not get this!

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Response to patrice (Reply #208)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:49 PM

215. have you read the Mother Jones piece?

Here, this has a lot, and there are updates on this link:
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained

It's where I read that he lived in the neighborhood, his father mentions it in his letter to the press.
" George Zimmerman's father wrote in a letter the Orlando Sentinel that his son has moved out of the neighborhood where he shot Trayvon Martin. "

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Response to AnotherDreamWeaver (Reply #215)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 09:21 PM

217. Thanks.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #29)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:44 PM

120. What park of not talking to strangers do you not get?

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #29)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:31 PM

240. what makes you believe he should have been "polite"

to some random, belligerent asshole who stalked and followed him? does it occur to you that he might have been scared?

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #20)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:03 PM

129. "I have a date with your mother"

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Response to The Magistrate (Reply #20)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:29 PM

239. +1000 that is the correct answer to any asshole who thinks they can judge "where you belong"

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:48 AM

21. how disgusting

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 11:58 AM

24. Fly on the wall



Can you imagine all the scared white excecs at Disney. Notice how ABC has been covering this topic. Listen to the phrasing being used their News(infotainment)braodcasts. Orlando-Sanford and Orange County runs on Mickey Mouse time.

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Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #24)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:04 PM

27. I wasn't aware of the geographic proximity.. but good point. n/t

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:01 PM

25. No one has to answer anyone! You don't even have to answer the police ...and you shouldn't.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #25)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:21 PM

52. I was just about to post this! Now we have to answer "correctly" to "Watch Captains", or DIE?!

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #25)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:40 PM

243. Personally, I'd be wondering if some SOB, crazy enough to interrogate me, might also be crazy enough

to shoot me in the back as I silently walk away.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:07 PM

30. I wanted to punch that guy in the face.

My Mom and I saw that and we were literally sitting there with our mouths open like, "We just didn't hear that, did we?!?!"

He was all but calling Trayvon out as a "boy" -- as in that bigoted southern term for Black Men. "Hey Boy, get off our damned lawn!"

I loved how Tobin later utterly trashed the guy's line of reasoning.

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #30)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:10 PM

33. I had to walk away from the TV.. so I missed Tobin's response. It's

too bad Tobin couldn't have responded face-to-face with the a-hole.

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #33)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:24 PM

55. Tobin was aghast and you could tell --

he couldn't believe what he's just heard. He immediately pointed out that any American citizen has the right to refuse to answer questions from even a law enforcement officia, let alone some random person who has approached them on a street. Trayvon had ZERO responsibility to answer any question from Zimmerman. From the tone in Tobin's voice, he made it clear he thought Anderson's guest was a friggin' idiot. Mom started cheering at that point.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:09 PM

32. So you read what you posted and cannot see that Anderson was simply allowing for the other side to

 

respond? I swear, I think some people are addicted to outrage. Race is a type of group karma. To always seek being dissed is a sad state of affairs. Sometimes a cigar really is one. Maybe this guy's biggest mistake was paranoia but after 8 burglaries, can we really blame him? Shouldn't have been carrying a gun, though...

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #32)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:13 PM

39. You're joking, right? If so, you forgot the sarcasm smiley. Because

it's sad to think that someone thinking this young man's response to the man stalking him with a gun was the reason he is dead. And you see nothing wrong with that.

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #39)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:18 PM

46. I never said I thought it was a great thing.

 

I am seeing more and more evidence of the climate in that gated community with all those break-ins. You have to be pretty paranoid to wanna live behind bars in the first place.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #32)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:14 PM

41. The other side can respond all they want.

Doesn't change the fact that they are trying to blame the victim. If he'd just been polite he wouldn't have gotten shot. Really? Utter crap.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #32)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:15 PM

42. "Fucking coon"

From Zimmerman's own mouth. Peddle your crap somewhere else.

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #42)


Response to lose the pain body (Reply #48)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:21 PM

53. So Trayvon was supposed to be "polite"

but it's ok for this tool to say "fucking coon" and stalk him with a loaded weapon? Riiiight...

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Response to ceile (Reply #53)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:27 PM

63. FYI, this poster is no longer with us.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #63)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:28 PM

67. Thank god.. I was having a meltdown over here. n/t

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #67)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:40 PM

80. You and me both!

Damned RW infestation. Between the bigots and the gun nuts, it has been quite the few days here.

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #80)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 10:07 AM

226. I'm not Right-Wing. Sheesh

 

is your skull made out of concrete or WHAT?

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #63)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:43 PM

83. Many Thanks For The Action Taken. (n/t)

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #63)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:47 PM

85. Oh good.

I was trying to be "polite" and "the bigger person", but was about lose it...

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #63)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:01 PM

97. this place is lousy with these idiots the last few days

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #63)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:48 PM

245. thanks, everyone for alerting

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #48)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:27 PM

65. I'm truly on the verge of Alerting on you in this thread.. what are

you trying to say, exactly? Just come out and say it.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #48)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:30 PM

68. You're just a big bowl of fucking stupid. Aren't you. nt

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #32)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:27 PM

112. Where is the cigar in this case? I'd like to be able to identify it but the problem I'm having

is that neither Anderson Cooper nor his guest have any clue what Trayvon said to Zimmerman, do they? Yet it seems you are accepting the assumption that he must have behaved badly or stupidly. I have read the police reports, the phone records, the witness statements, but nowhere did I find on the official record anything about what transpired between the two of them. I did read his girlfriend's account of their conversation in which it was clear Trayvon was trying to get away from Zimmerman but was shot very shortly after he was cut off from the conversation.

Since we are all speculating, my theory is that when he was cut off, someone pushed him. If so, since to him this guy who had been following him, from whom he was trying to get away, seems like the most likely suspect.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #112)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:56 PM

246. Agreed. All characterizations of THEIR conversation are hypothetical. But the conversations

that are occurring here, and in the media, are not - though some of it is conversation about a hypothetical conversation.

Personally, I'm worried about escalation, because there is an inclination to make the same kind of mistakes, assumptions of one type or another, about Z that Z made about Trayvon. This is important, because it can affect some people's attitudes about those seeking justice. Truth can be obfuscated by un-necessary hostility and there ARE those who know and CAN USE that fact to protect not only Z, but more importantly, his enablers.

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Response to lose the pain body (Reply #32)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 04:33 PM

241. what "other side" are you talking about?!?!

the people who condone the brutal, racist murder of a black teenager?

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:20 PM

51. Black Men must must explain to people who we are & what we're doing for no reason at all...

This is unacceptable..

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:23 PM

54. Kids are taught to avoid stranger danger.

Except black kids. They have to take their chances.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:25 PM

58. So not answering in an 'appropriate manner' is life threatening? And

people have a right to shoot the non-responder?

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:26 PM

59. And just what, pray tell, is an "appropriate manner"?

"Yassa, massa, I's just here to pick up my ol' lady"?!

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:34 PM

72. Really, because everyone should

just talk in an appropriate manner when they have been "targeted" by a thug sitting in his car while watching you walk through the complex. Of course, we would never have a problem with someone who chases you down and points a gun at us - we would just be so courteous and respectful right?????

Hell effing no.

Zimmerman was dressed in civilian clothes, not a uniform - he had no right, absolutely no right to stop anyone - his job was to call the police and let them know what was happening - he did not, he went after Trayvon - was it because he saw a much smaller and younger man and thought he could intimidate him - doesn't matter Zimmerman was wrong in all aspects and he murdered Trayvon.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:34 PM

73. A popular notion

I've seen the same rationale advanced for other victims of violence in the last year. If those corpses had only behaved properly, or turned themselves in, or hadn't been so evil based on one person's say-so, why, he'd be perfectly all right today. But maybe there's some difference that I'm not grasping between Trayvon Martin and the other victims.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #73)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:48 PM

214. As Above, So Below it would appear

Hard to say what that means.

Perhaps when that rationale is adopted above
those below learn by example and follow.

Perhaps it is a shared cultural illness

Perhaps just a coincidence.

When done "above" things do tend to be viewed as proper, lending one "below" a sense of self-justification for indulging in similar behavior but I am as yet unsure how much causality is at play.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:34 PM

75. If only she hadn't dressed that way, she wouldn't have been raped.

Thanks for the victim-blaming Taaffe.

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Response to Dr. Strange (Reply #75)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:53 PM

90. +1 to the infinity on that answer

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Response to LynneSin (Reply #90)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:10 PM

105. One to the infinity is an indeterminate form!

Thus, your reply is ambiguous. You'll need to fix that. While you're doing so, I'll be watching this with maidinmaryland:

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:36 PM

76. If the girlfriend's narrative of what she heard is accurate

Trayvon had no chance to reply "In an Appropriate Manner".

Trayvon Martin's girlfriend speaks out about final moments before teen's slaying
9:13 p.m. EST, March 20, 2012

She told attorneys she then heard the 17-year-old ask "What are you following me for?"

Then a man, presumably Zimmerman, replied: "What are you doing around here?"

The girl said Trayvon must have been pushed because his headset fell off and the phone call ended.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-20/news/os-trayvon-martin-girlfriend-speaks-details-20120320_1_shooting-death-gated-attorneys

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:48 PM

86. Silence was reason enought to shoot him? Wow. (nt)

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:54 PM

91. Cooper Really Blew This Interview

First of all, my guess is that nearly all of the burglaries are unsolved with the age and race of those involved unknown. This should have been the first clue that Taaffe was himself a racist. Having missed this clear signal there is little wonder that Cooper also dropped the ball on the "appropriate manner (sic)" statement.

Second, Martin asked Zimmerman "why are you following me". It was Zimmerman that did not answer in an appropriate manner and not the other way around.

Lastly, it was Zimmerman who responded to the dispatchers call to stop following Martin with "These a**holes, they always get away". Since Zimmerman had previously identified Martin as black Zimmerman was telling the dispatcher this "black a**hole" is not about to "get away". The die was set. The murder was premeditated and based on race. What's left to understand?

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #91)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:56 PM

93. +1 +1 +1 - n/t

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #91)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:34 PM

142. That was my first takeaway. "Most committed by Black males," should have had a followup question.


"So they solved these crimes?"

"Huh? No! They keep getting away with it."

"Then how do you know the crimes were committed by Black males?"


A family with a history of criminal background moved into my neighborhood once. Sure enough, thefts began occurring right after they moved in.

Turned out that one of the "good" kids who had lived in the neighborhood his whole life, correctly predicting people would lay the blame at the feet of this family, decided to start stealing shit. I was fortunate enough to catch** him in the act. I quite enjoyed the spectacle of all the embarrased "good" people.

Not that the family history was false. In fact, they managed to retrieve our lost goods through their contacts with the fences. Smart thieves don't "shit in their own backyard" as the saying goes.


**And I didn't even have a firearm when I caught him! How could I possibly still be alive? Maybe I'm dead and just never noticed.


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Response to ieoeja (Reply #142)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:25 PM

165. Thugs Come From All Stripes

Several years ago the neighbor across the street had a son that had gotten into trouble with the law. The dad was the longtime campaign treasurer of our Republican Congressman. One day there was a gang fight with teenage gangs wielding ball bats and chains going at it right in my yard. I recognized one of them as the son. Police were called and they took my statement but explained that it was a delicate situation. A few months later the family moved to California. I always felt like it was a plea-bargin to keep the kids record clean. There were a number of complaints by the neighbors but the dad wasn't able to control his son. Don't know how the fresh start in California worked out but we were happy to see them move.

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #91)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:13 PM

179. I'm surprised they put that tool on TV to begin with

I've always disapproved of the cable news habit of bringing unconnected "friends" of people involved in high-profile criminal cases (unless they were present and witnessed what happened), because there is never anything relevant for them to add other than their own speculation, which any average moron off the street can offer...

I always saw it as a very cheap, Hollywood-ish, CourTV/Nancy Grace thing to do...

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #91)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:18 PM

181. "It was Zimmerman that did not answer in an appropriate manner and not the other way around."

YES!!!!!!! 10,000 times yes! You are my new hero.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 12:59 PM

95. Horseshit. Was he supposed to read minds?

Zimmerman was not wearing a bright neon sign saying "Hello, I'm just your friendly neighborhood watch captain", nor did he have any such sign on his vehicle.

And I'm going to hazard a guess that Treyvon Martin failed "telepathy and mind reading" in school, so he had no way of identifying Zimmerman as from his perspective there was some unidentified large, older man following him and acting suspiciously. From what was said on his call with his friend, he did the reasonable thing and tried to evade this suspicious person.

Zimmerman had already (mis)pegged the kid as a burglar , so every reasonable action Trevyon took was interpreted as confirming Zimmerman's suppositions. There was no consideration of the possibility that Martin was acting the way he did because Zimmerman was acting like a creepy stalker.

There was no "perfect storm", just a time bomb from Zimmerman's lack of suitable temperment, lack of oversight, and bigoted profiling.

You can feel sorry for poor little George right up to the point where he killed somebody. An innocent somebody who was just going about his ordinary business until George got the wrong idea in his head and pursued it so aggressively that someone wound up dead.

I wonder how Mr./Ms. Taffe scores on psychic tests. How would he/she feel about getting killed just because you didn't read somebody's mind?

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:04 PM

100. When all is said and done, and the books are written. Taaffe will come off worse than Zimmerman...

Zimmerman looks like he was following Taaffe's lead.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #100)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:26 PM

111. Yeah, I just updated at bottom of OP to include Taafe's latest outrageous

statement.

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Response to Junkdrawer (Reply #100)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:50 PM

125. Wow, that Taaffe guy -

is a raging idiot,

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:04 PM

101. "His duties as watch captain"

... included CALLING THE POLICE and NOT CONFRONTING ANYONE.

Martin was under NO OBLIGATION WHATSOEVER TO ANSWER ANY QUESTION FROM A KEYSTOINE COP.

This guy is a GRADE A IDIOT.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:08 PM

104. Really

the sad thing is that this crap is believed and what utter garbage

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:12 PM

107. And if only the whole country had voted for Strom Thurmond in '48

we wouldn't have all the problems we have today.

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Response to DefenseLawyer (Reply #107)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:11 PM

135. That really is what this is all about, isn't it.

At the end of day.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:12 PM

108. Jeez. Since when does someone have to answer another about what they are doing on a public way?

Oh wait, I forgot. Trayvon had brown skin. Well, that answers it. (do I need the sarcasm thingy?)

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:34 PM

115. Why does the young man have to tell this person anything? He was just walking and doing nothing

 

wrong. I think anyone who would have been in Trayon shoes would have been the same way. They would wonder why is this guy following him. The young man asked him didn't he? Why didn't Zimmerman answer him. Why didn't Zimmerman show some type of card that he was a Watch Cdr? Don't pin it on the victim. Trayon was the victim. He didn't do anything wrong.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:39 PM

117. Maybe Trayvon DID say those things

Maybe he said, "I live around the corner. This is my home." Maybe he said ALL the things this racist creep claims the kid should have said.

We'll never know, because Zimmerman sure isn't going to tell us the truth.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:40 PM

118. What's the "appropriate" response when an armed man is chasing you down?

I'd run if I was in a position to; I'd turn to face him and look to defend myself if I wasn't. Trayvon Martin was the one who "didn't back down." Zimmerman was the aggressor. How could the cops not see that? It's as clear as black and white.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:46 PM

121. Fuck that shit.

"Falling Down" was a movie - not a life choice.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:51 PM

126. What the interviewee was really saying was:

"Black teenagers in a mostly white neighborhood should EXPECT to be followed and accosted; as long as they remain meek and subservient, there isn't a problem. If they talk back even merely to the degree that they ask why they're being followed, then anything that happens is their fault."

Q. E. D.

And the sad thing is, this REALLY IS the way so many people think.

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Response to tledford (Reply #126)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:12 PM

136. He's essentially affirming that Sanford is a "sundown town" by default.

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Response to myrna minx (Reply #136)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 07:03 PM

198. What is a "sundown town"?

I haven't heard the phrase before.
Thanks.

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Response to HeiressofBickworth (Reply #198)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:34 PM

209. A "sundown town" was a town where the presence of African-Americans

was not tolerated "after sundown". At one time, my hometown was a "sundown town". One time back in the late '60s or maybe early '70s, a young AA couple moved into a house down the street. They had a couple of MGs which I thought were so cool. But apparently, someone else didn't, and one night a brick was thrown through the windshield of one of those MGs with a rather unpleasant note attached. The couple moved out soon after that.

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #209)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:36 PM

210. I didn't know that either. Thanks for explaning. n/t

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #209)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:43 PM

212. Damn, that's harsh.

I suspect that "sundown town" has it's origins in slavery. Slaves were out working during the day, making money for their owners, but after dark, when work would have been difficult if not impossible, slaves were out-of-sight, out-of-mind. I have never lived in the south so I don't know for a fact, but I believe that there are many hold-over attitudes and practices that have been passed down from slave times. If the passage of 150 years has failed to dull these hold-overs, how can we expect anything different than Trayvon's murder and other hate attacks. How can we as a society educate people who don't want to be educated?

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Response to HeiressofBickworth (Reply #212)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 08:52 PM

216. My hometown has changed in that respect

It took a while, but that sort of thing has died out. Slavery was never part of the culture of that town (it wasn't founded until after the Civil War), but those types of "sundown" attitudes were nonetheless prevalent there up to the late '70s or early '80s, I think.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 01:59 PM

127. If he hadn't been "uppity" in other words... nt

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:00 PM

128. Staggering. What an idiot. An intentional idiot at that.

You're a young black man and you're walking along, on your way home, minding your own business. You notice a man in a truck following you, pointedly directing his attention at you. The man continues to follow you. You're unnerved. You know the history of how this could end. (and did - once again). Now this Taafe person wants to claim that Martin was probably 'rude'? and not cooperating with the sweet, harmless Zimmerman, who would never harm anyone and was just probably asking Martin a question? That Trayvon Martin is dead because he didn't address his armed stalker in an "appropriate manner"?

Seriously?

Seriously?

Fuck you, Taafe.

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Response to Solly Mack (Reply #128)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:08 PM

132. As a WOMAN --

if I were walking along and saw a unknown man following me in an unmarked vehicle, then getting out of said vehicle to approach me, I would assume one thing, and one think only: He was a rapist trying to attack and/or kidnap me. I would go into alert mode and if the fucker tried to come within 5 feet of me I would 1) yell, 2) run, 3) be prepared to kick the ever lovin' crap out of him, regardless of what he was trying to say to me.

I can only imagine what Trayvon, a young black man in the South, was thinking when he encountered that treatment from Zimmerman.

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Response to Hell Hath No Fury (Reply #132)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:23 PM

140. Exactly!

A man is following me? I'll be thinking one thing and one thing only - that he's a danger to me.

I'm a woman. I have to think this way because I know what can happen.

History and crime stats bear this out.

Trayvon Martin lived his last minutes in terror.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:03 PM

130. Hey Mr. Taafe

I don't owe you or anybody else an explanation for why I go on walks or what I'm doing while I'm out and about. Especially not some insecure, police academy reject covering up for his own failures by trying to make himself out to be important by becomming self-proclaimed protector of the neighborhood.

I'll thank you and every other wannabe reject cop to keep your questions and interrogations to yourselves while I conduct my business, and I will happily extend the same courtesy to you.

And if you ever do decide to stop me and erroneously believe you have some kind of God-given right to interrogate me just for walking into your precious neighborhood, I guarantee you you will find me far more testy than a 17 year old kid with skittles.

Have a nice day.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:08 PM

131. In my opinion, the problem occured long before Trayvon spoke a single word.

And isn't Defcon-1 the scary Defcon, or have movies led me astray?

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:19 PM

138. Performing his duties.......who made him Watch Captain? .......

he had no lawful authority .

When the homeowners association wanted to start a neighborhood watch.....well apparently they didn't go to the police dept and got Zimmerman as their hired gun. I can see this is going to be very costly to the residents responsible.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:23 PM

139. And what was his idea of "appropriate manner"? "Yes massa!"? n/t

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #139)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 02:53 PM

145. There are way more than 2 polar possibilities & the choice depends on way more than the 2

parties involved in the interaction.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:03 PM

146. Link to the Cooper Interview.

I haven't been able to find a transcript as yet.


http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national/anderson-cooper-interviews-friend-of-trayvon-martin-s-killer-video


And the other day The Washington Post's Jonathan Capehart had an excellent, and seriously depressing, perspective, "Under 'suspicion': The Killing of Trayvon Martin."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/under-suspicion-the-killing-of-trayvon-martin/2011/03/04/gIQAz4F4KS_blog.html

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:08 PM

149. why in the FUCKING HELL

did Cooper NOT confront Taaffe with the FACTS, that Zimmerman had been stalking Trayvon, for example?

WHAT
THE
FUCK??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #149)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:31 PM

152. No idea.. AC just sat there with a blank look on his face and

said nothing. It really is beyond belief.

He's an entertainer, not a journalist.. that much is obvious.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:27 PM

151. I saw that interview too and all I could do was shake my head

And I believe he was at the rally because I saw a lot of protestors in the background.

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Response to Catherine Vincent (Reply #151)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 03:48 PM

156. Oh, I have no doubt he's there. Hopefully a REAL reporter will

put a microphone in his face.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:28 PM

167. Well first off you can tell by the interview this man doesn't know Zimmerman or associated with him.

He's in it for the spotlight. First he uses "was" as though Zimmerman were dead. He says that the gun doesn't describe the Zimmerman he knows, but it was confirmed that Zimmerman had the gun for a while. Another point that I find the most interesting is that he says that Zimmerman was performing his duty as Captain of the community surveillance, the shit of it all is that he wasn't part of the community surveillance team (although the team existed)--- he was self-appointed.

This guy is full of shit and Anderson Cooper needs to do his homework.

If Zimmerman said that "these assholes" always get away in reference to Black criminals. I want to know how many people were burglarized by Black people in that neighborhood.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:39 PM

172. "Fed Up Issues" ARE anger issues.

Just what does he think "he wasn't going to take it anymore" means?

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 04:48 PM

173. So this guy was there and knows that Trayvon didn't tell him?

my guess is that Zimmerman got all macho and started accusing the kid of this or that.

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Response to WI_DEM (Reply #173)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:19 PM

182. I was just thinking the same thing. Has this guy been questioned?

If he's THIS close to Zimmerman, you know they talked. Hell, in the DAYS that lapsed before anything was even known about this crime, how many people did Zimmerman brag to?

No one's questioned him? That's as unbelievable as the rest of this horrific scenario.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)


Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 05:01 PM

177. Fuck that lying POS. He can join his friend imo.

Amazing how people will lie to cover up a murder.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 06:26 PM

189. Thanks for the pic . . . those eyes!!! nt

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Response to patrice (Reply #189)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 06:29 PM

193. Wasn't he just gorgeous? It's hard to look at those eyes. nt

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Response to K Gardner (Reply #193)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 06:41 PM

196. I have put Trayvon's image with that of other innocents who motivate my somewhat

imperfect commitment to peace. I know every time I look at him his eyes will speak again for his heart.

Sat nam!

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 06:26 PM

190. as if trayvon owed that freak an explanation for anything nt

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 06:28 PM

191. If only Florida lawmakers had thought it through before they enabled intolerant vigilantes

to kill -- under protection of state law -- an unfamiliar person walking down the street.

The young boy is the only one who was in a state of fear: who is this angry man who is following me; I've got to get away from him & get back to my dad's house. The vigilante was angry because "they always get away" (how fortunate for them). The vigilante had no fear & no badge, but, dammit, the Florida legislature gave him the right to carry a gun & to use it at his own twisted discretion.

I wonder, in the state of Florida, are women drivers obligated to stop for unmarked police cars as well? It makes as much sense as their gun laws. The power is given to the aggressors.

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 06:29 PM

192. This Reminds me of How Women are Blamed for Being Raped

if she didn't want to be raped she shouldn't have dressed that way, she shouldn't have been out at night, she shouldn't have been alone, she shouldn't have invited him.....................

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Thu Mar 22, 2012, 06:33 PM

195. Fuck that shit

Nobody should have to kow tow to a piece of shit vigilante.

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Response to guitar man (Reply #195)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 02:37 PM

252. Stay classy with the language...

 

Yeah, well good luck with that strategy. I would rather kowtow to a POS vigilante than get shot...

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Response to shadegrown tofu (Reply #252)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 07:47 PM

258. Buh bye

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Fri Mar 23, 2012, 01:24 AM

222. What's the appropriate way to respond to being stalked by a thug?

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:23 PM

254. "Taaffe": "Get in line boy!"

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 03:28 PM

255. Taafe: 'My friend is a murderer and I am okay with that.'

nt

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Response to K Gardner (Original post)

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 05:10 PM

257. Bigots truly believe this kind of crap

Springsteen did a good job explaining it to people willing to listen.

"On these streets Charles, you've got to understand the rules.
If an officer stops you, promise me you'll always be polite.
And that you'll never ever run away and keep your hands in sight."

'You can get killed just for livin' in your American skin."

White people don't have to tell their kids such things.
The guy on AC was talking about a belief in a natural authority that should have been respected. Whether he held that perspective or not, I don't know.

It's pretty clear that Zimmerman is a racist SOB who believed he was a cop. That does not automatically put the burden on the shoulders of Trayvon legally or by any natural order. Nothing does. But, it did put Trayvon at an unknown greater risk than an average white kid would ever have to consider.

The idea that Trayvon should have been more respectful of a white guy understood from the perspective of a person who believes it to be a true and natural state of affairs is part of some people's belief systems. These are belief systems that many white people deny exist.

Parents of children of color still have to react. Some feel they need to teach their kids that bigoted people who could be willing to kill them exist. And that it could be people they least expect to turn on them that way.

These reports make me angry because they have potential to communicate something of value, but they leave out the important part. White people, myself included, need to take responsibility for at least knowing and caring that there is something very wrong with the difference in what citizenship means in this country.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #265)

Sun Mar 25, 2012, 05:20 PM

267. Thanks for this link !! n/t

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Response to baldguy (Reply #265)

Tue Apr 3, 2012, 04:38 PM

268. Oh, excellent stuff. Thanks n/t

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