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Thu Feb 20, 2014, 11:14 PM

This is NOT about the evils of straight, white, men, BUT, it is about the reality of one gay man.

Last edited Sat Feb 22, 2014, 02:57 AM - Edit history (1)

There have been threads in which SWM are feeling "under attack." In some cases, I can understand why, in others, not so much. I hated diversity programs that focused solely on the 'faults' of straight, white, Christian, able-bodied men. When I started doing presentations, I focused on the issues that faced minority cultures and their accomplishments, often in the face of discrimination. I guess one can call it a "tone" issue. So, I hope this post comes across in a positive way or at least let's others see how a minority person sees his place in this country.

This Saturday is my 12th anniversary with my partner. If interested, the traditional gift is silk or linen, and yes, we are accepting gifts. The modern gift is pearl. Yeah. Stick with sending gifts of silk or linen. So, anywho, I went to the Hallmark store today in a mid-sized Oklahoma town (<40K) to get an anniversary card (well, actually I get three or four). To my chagrin, there wasn't a single one oriented toward gay men. Ok, I didn't lose my chagrin, I know I have to look for cards that don't say "wife," or have female pronouns. It is difficult to find cards which are appropriate. Some years, I just buy cards with men and women couples, then pull the picture off or cover it with a picture I find on the internet of two men. This is my reality. Yes, I could drive an hour to Tulsa and find a few cards, but should I have to? Sure, bigger cities are going to have things for GLBT people, but it reminds me, as a gay man, that I have to be in a major city to exist.

This is my reality. This is what it is to be gay in this country. It seems like a little thing, but sometimes, it is the little things that can be the most prominent. Can you imagine going into a card store and not finding a card for your wife (if you are a man), or your husband (if you are a woman)? Can you imagine looking for a gift and the salesperson looks at you funny when you say who your 'spouse' is? Yeah, I can't get married in OK, and something this mundane reminds me once again, I am not a "real" person, a valuable citizen, to a number of people.

Thanks!

(PS. If you are white, have you ever noticed how "white" cards are, unless you are in the "Mahogany" section?" When you look around and you don't see yourself in the merchandise or see yourself in a "reserved" section, it can be a bit sad.)

ETA: I wanted to thank everyone, whom I haven't already thanked, for the well wishes! I am pleased to see so many people understood what I was saying. I had planned to thank everyone, but I didn't expect this many people to respond!!! My partner had the day off, so I was spending it with him, when it wasn't working (apparently his work doesn't understand the concept of "day off!"), so I went shopping and still couldn't find a "silk" gift. For real! Satin will have to due. Again, I sincerely thank everyone for the well wishes, and those who added their own personal stories. - BtA

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Reply This is NOT about the evils of straight, white, men, BUT, it is about the reality of one gay man. (Original post)
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 OP
Skittles Feb 2014 #1
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #3
sheshe2 Feb 2014 #9
Aerows Feb 2014 #14
catrose Feb 2014 #16
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #26
RBStevens Feb 2014 #61
catrose Feb 2014 #65
AverageJoe90 Feb 2014 #49
theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #52
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #71
awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #80
JI7 Feb 2014 #2
Gormy Cuss Feb 2014 #53
redqueen Feb 2014 #57
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #63
pacalo Feb 2014 #4
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #64
The Straight Story Feb 2014 #5
Aerows Feb 2014 #10
The Straight Story Feb 2014 #20
Aerows Feb 2014 #24
jeff47 Feb 2014 #70
Sissyk Feb 2014 #6
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #8
Aerows Feb 2014 #11
Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #7
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #21
Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #27
frazzled Feb 2014 #12
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #17
frazzled Feb 2014 #22
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #25
lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #13
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #18
LittleBlue Feb 2014 #15
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #32
sheshe2 Feb 2014 #19
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #23
Violet_Crumble Feb 2014 #28
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #30
Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #29
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #34
frwrfpos Feb 2014 #31
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #33
frwrfpos Feb 2014 #35
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #36
frwrfpos Feb 2014 #37
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #38
nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #39
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #40
nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #41
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #42
nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #43
Bohunk68 Feb 2014 #44
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #72
maddezmom Feb 2014 #45
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #73
gollygee Feb 2014 #46
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #74
Heidi Feb 2014 #47
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #75
seveneyes Feb 2014 #48
MissMillie Feb 2014 #50
bemildred Feb 2014 #51
NCTraveler Feb 2014 #54
redqueen Feb 2014 #55
upaloopa Feb 2014 #56
theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #58
upaloopa Feb 2014 #66
theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #67
upaloopa Feb 2014 #76
theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #79
one_voice Feb 2014 #59
Behind the Aegis Feb 2014 #82
mitchtv Feb 2014 #60
joeybee12 Feb 2014 #62
stevenleser Feb 2014 #68
Marrah_G Feb 2014 #69
RC Feb 2014 #77
DeadLetterOffice Feb 2014 #78
MineralMan Feb 2014 #81

Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 11:26 PM

1. I'm pretty sure Hallmark has cards for gay couples

is it more likely that Oklahoma store chooses not to carry them? Or perhaps they haven't adjusted yet because it seems fairly new. The cards are very generic in terms of what they actually say but hey, it's a start:

http://www.dosomething.org/blog/chatterbox/hallmark-rolls-out-gay-marriage-cards


I do hear you about some folk still acting weird with regards to gay marriage.

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Response to Skittles (Reply #1)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 11:31 PM

3. The one in Tulsa I beleive carries a small selection.

But, here in my town, no. Channukah is always a treat too. No Jewish wrapping paper, and 4 cards to choose from. It simply reminds me that I am an "other."

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:22 AM

9. You are NOT an "other"! nt

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:28 AM

14. You aren't an "other"

You are part of the DU family, and a friend, a lover, a husband, and the person your pets look to as their brightest star.

Besides that, I like you, too.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:35 AM

16. when I lived in Tulsa

they put out Jewish New Year cards the last week of December. So I wouldn't make the trip and count on them having what you want. But good luck!

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Response to catrose (Reply #16)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:17 AM

26. LOL! I also found "Kosher for Passover" for ham in Tulsa.

Some times things are just funny.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #26)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 02:06 PM

61. Oh no! I think that's the definition of FAIL!

 

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #26)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 03:27 PM

65. Did you see the kosher shrimp too? EOM

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:00 PM

49. Seconding aerows and sheshe1 here. You are no "other".

Don't let the bigots get you down...... You are part of the DU family. And, my dear friend, you are a human being.

(Oh, and P.S., happy anniversary. )

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:14 PM

52. I tried to buy a small Menorah in my town of almost 20,000

Not only did I have to explain (and repeat) what a Menorah was, I was told that if I wanted "that kind of thing" I'd have to go to Baltimore. I finally found one online and keep it in honor of my grandmother.

But yes, as a gay woman I can attest that its the "death by a thousand cuts" that can wear down your soul. Sometimes it seems that folks go out of their way to embarrass you, too. Not long ago when my SO and a were traveling, we had booked a room in a hotel (Holiday Inn). The lady at the registration desk asked us if we wanted two beds. I said no, one would be fine. So she asked again, louder, "Are you sure you wouldn't like two beds?" When I said no again, she kept repeating herself louder and louder until everyone in the lobby could hear. God, it's so damn tiresome.

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Response to theHandpuppet (Reply #52)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 05:17 PM

71. "death by a thousand cuts" is a good way to describe it.

being Jewish isn't any more fun here either, though a new Jewish center is now open, complete with Rabbi!! When we lived here before, there were very few African-Americans, which has changed in the past 8 years. It is interesting what we notice and don't notice as we go on with our lives.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #3)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 07:58 PM

80. as others have said...

to us, including this straight, white atheist, you are family. Living in the babble belt sucks, especially when you are in the boonies.

on edit: happy anniversary to you two

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 11:30 PM

2. also these "little things" are how a lot of people end up viewing the world

almost everyone would buy a card and they will see the cards to/from various people. so they recognize while they are looking that there are others who may have a different background but they also celebrate the same things as you do.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:15 PM

53. ^^^This^^^ n/t

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Response to JI7 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:27 PM

57. That is a very important point.

Recognizing diversity is not just a good idea, it's a necessity.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #2)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 02:38 PM

63. This is very true. It adds the "human" touch to those of us looked at as "other."

One of my favorite "Gay Agenda" posters basically revels in how much we are like every one else ("watch as they pay bills! LOL!).

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 11:47 PM

4. Congratulations on finding the right person -- 12 years together!

Cards mean a lot to me so it takes me forever to choose one that I can claim as the one to speak for me. Years ago I began making my own handwritten notes with my own designs. Just a thought for you to consider doing your own, too (I bet he'll appreciate it even more).

I hope you & your partner have many more years together to celebrate!

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Response to pacalo (Reply #4)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 02:40 PM

64. Thanks so much!

I look for cards that have monkeys on them. Every now and again I can find a card that has a similar feeling to mine. Should I ever get really fed up with DU or a poster, I will write them poetry and PM you to take a look and you realize why I don't write my own cards! LOL!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 11:48 PM

5. On the cards thing

Yeah, I notice those things as well. I have several gay friends and one of them has been in a relationship forever and the best I could do is go to the 'cards for my husband' section. Small towns have even less available across the board for cards.

I would add though that stores go by the numbers as to what they are choosing to carry (everything takes up space and resources). Being in a mid sized town in Oklahoma percent wise they might not see it as important enough to bother with (try looking for anything bar mitzvah related up in amish country where I used to live....). And don't get me started on being a D&D player trying to find gaming things in some towns - football and soccer? Sure.


As far as:

"There have been threads in which SWM are feeling "under attack." In some cases, I can understand why, in others, not so much. I hated diversity programs that focused solely on the 'faults' of straight, white, Christian, able-bodied men."

I think most rational people get what is being said. The 'but' here is that most of us have studied history and no matter the race, religion, etc people in power suck and do terrible things to others. They also treat people more like themselves better than they do other people. This is not a problem only with white people.

When someone says 'hey you have some privilege someone else doesn't ' I often wonder what it is they are asking to do about it. Recognize it? Ok. That is easy. I do that all time with homeless folks, the poor (like myself), disabled, and so on . Change it? I vote for progressives because they represent a better cross section of America (among may other reasons of course). Loads and loads of people have some better position in life in ways that I don't.

No one ever really says what they want straight white men to do. Feel bad about it? Tell people they are sorry they were born that way. Complain about it with them? Don't dare mention the positives other people have going of course. Oh, and you can never say you are a victim because some folks see you at the top of everything because of your race and orientation. No, you can't be a victim of anything but you sure can be an oppressor on everything - you will get blamed based on your race even if you never have done a thing.

Everyone in the US is more privileged than many other countries. We let little kids in Asian countries make our shoes, virtual slave labor the world over is fueled by our love for electronics, brand name fashions, etc. That is driven by every race, sex, and gender in the US.

Everyone has some privilege.


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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:25 AM

10. "Everyone in the US is more privileged than many other countries"

Bullshit. We let people die without proper medical care and enslave them to debt for education. Our police shoot people in their homes.

What world do you live in that this is privilege?

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Response to Aerows (Reply #10)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:55 AM

20. When compared to say, Uganda, etc

You are saying we are not?

Or....are you saying that indeed, white males in this country also have it bad because we all do?

Not sure what you are saying but if you ask me the people are more privileged than other countries - but then, as some I have seen say, maybe you just can't see how great you have it.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #20)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:13 AM

24. When I look at Scandanavian nations

Canada and Australia? I do indeed see that our nation sucks.

Paint that statement however you like, but some things are happening in our nation that only happen when society is quickly unraveling.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #5)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 04:50 PM

70. You can't fix society on any sort of timetable.

So it's not something you are supposed to fix directly, because you alone can't fix it.

What you can do is realize that your life isn't like someone else's. For example, the topic at hand.

It would be really easy to just say "Go to Amazon, they've got hundreds of cards. Here's a link." But that isn't what the story's really about. It's about the fact that not finding the card emphasizes the "otherness". That this one incident really isn't a big deal, but it's yet another small incident on top of a giant pile of small incidents. That just do not stop piling up.

So while this incident is "not a big deal", all the incidents together are a big deal. That can lead to things like saying "damn straight people!" when venting about it. Which can then lead to those straight people saying "Hey!!! It wasn't me!!!". And the conversation goes downhill from there. But they were just venting, and did not literally mean all straight people.

In other words, be compassionate. If they're venting, let them instead of worrying about defending yourself.

Society will fix itself as more and more people understand their privilege.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 11:55 PM

6. You are a real person to me, BtA!!

All those little things can add up, can't they?

Congratulations to you both!

Happy Anniversary!

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Response to Sissyk (Reply #6)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:20 AM

8. Thank you!



Yes, the little things add up. I used to demonstrate this in my diversity training programs (and programs about stress) by having people hold a piece of paper, then half a ream, then a whole ream; it was to show that while some things may be small and petty, they can build up over time and be oppressive.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #8)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:26 AM

11. You are a real person

and thank you for the post. I respect you for saying that dignity is necessary. Because it is.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Thu Feb 20, 2014, 11:57 PM

7. Great post.

Well written.

It's amazing the points one can get across when you just write what you know and not screw around with some silly ass analogy that's nothing but patronizing.

Anywho, that's my little rant.

I feel you. That's a completely legitimate and discouraging (for lack of a better word) thought process.

On your situation if I may play captain obvious, why not buy online? If there is not just an online store or maker avail, wait a minute because I have a great business idea

But I think in all fairness, be patient. If you can drive to Tulsa to get such a card in 2014, then I gotta believe that is progress and your town is not far behind. The supply will follow because the demand is growing everyday.

On being a privileged SWM

it's not that we don't know the deck plays easier to us it's the perception that we don't is what so infuriating for starters. For instance. I'm from a mid-size city in north Florida. Not exactly a liberal bastion. Our little block had maybe 20 houses on it. Two of them had gay couples. This is the 1980's and 90's mind you and while of course everyone was cool with it. (And I truly mean that) there was of course conversation about "those guys" and their "lifestyle".

But this is the thing. Those conversations were from our parents who grew when no men or women (at least very few) could own houses and live in the open among families. But for us kids, it's just the way life was and this was that house no different from the next house. And little by little that's how you get to buy a gay anniversary card in Tulsa in 2014.

Side notes - both of those houses were my direct neighbors one side and one across. The one next to me. One fellow died from AIDS. That was difficult for us kids to really grasp. Our parents put aside their histories and for the betterment of their children, they taught us that it was not because of their lifestyle.

Looking back, we were very fortunate. Other kids not so much. But our parents had grown to like their neighbors even though they had their little gossip sessions. Nobody's perfect.

So my point is, we SWM have all kinds of histories and experiences that are much closer to your realities and those of other minorities than many think. I mean we do live in this country too, many of us with our eyes wide open.

Side side note, when my widower neighbor moved away, a very nice lesbian couple bought the house and grew quite close to our family. Sadly they broke up in the end, but the lady who stayed took very good care of my mother after my father passed away. Checking on her and such when I couldn't be there. I was very grateful to her for that.

Thanks for the post and I hope my story follows the spirit of your OP.

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #7)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:04 AM

21. Thanks for your response.

Every year, every year I think, "next year I am getting a card on-line, going to Tulsa, or crating my own on Snapfish" and every year it sneaks up on me! LOL! Part of the point, is I shouldn't have to do those things, but it is a reality, for now. everyone has their own reality and I was sharing mine, but I didn't want it to seem I was scolding or blaming. Thank you for understanding that point.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #21)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:18 AM

27. Thank you

For the honest discussion.

And happy anniversary.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:27 AM

12. I'm not understanding something

First of all, Happy Anniversary, and I really mean that.

But I'm confused, sorta. You refer in your first line to SWMs here feeling under attack. (I'm not sure that's entirely accurate: who ever said they were all S or W, but that's beside the point.) Then you go on to try to tell us how difficult it is to find a greeting card that represents gay men.

Whoa: let's backtrack. One of the biggest points of contention in the so-called "gender wars" here—and the reason the males were feeling under attack—was response to the posting of images here of idealized, sexualized women: images that remind female posters that (as you put it) they are not "real" people or valuable citizens. Here's what I'm saying: we women can't find a SINGLE image in the popular media of someone who represents us, who looks like us ... whether we are young women, older women, straight or gay women, white or black women.

And yet you can't find an appropriate anniversary card? I really hate to say it this way, but how did this become about you? And why are you delivering your message to the men on this board? Why isn't this a post about solidarity with women? Because, as a gay man, you should understand how it feels to be unrepresented or misrepresented in the culture. But, sadly, this lesson does not seem to extend to others who are underrepresented or misrepresented in the culture.

I'm happy for your anniversary, but I'm sad you seem to have missed the point.





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Response to frazzled (Reply #12)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:43 AM

17. I don't understand the accusatory nature of your post.

But I'm confused, sorta. You refer in your first line to SWMs here feeling under attack. (I'm not sure that's entirely accurate: who ever said they were all S or W, but that's beside the point.) Then you go on to try to tell us how difficult it is to find a greeting card that represents gay men.

What I actually wrote was, "There have been threads in which SWM are feeling "under attack." In some cases, I can understand why, in others, not so much." Simply go into a number of threads about gays or AA in the past day, and you will clearly see, there are those posters who identify as either male or white or both and feel "attacked."

This is not about the so-called gender wars, but what is sounds like is that you have an issue with gays. If I don't know my place, then I should just shut up.

"And yet you can't find an appropriate anniversary card? I really hate to say it this way, but how did this become about you? And why are you delivering your message to the men on this board? Why isn't this a post about solidarity with women? Because, as a gay man, you should understand how it feels to be unrepresented or misrepresented in the culture. But, sadly, this lesson does not seem to extend to others who are underrepresented or misrepresented in the culture. "

It became about me because this happened to me! My message isn't to just men on this board, how can you not see that? Why in the hell would this be a post in solidarity with women?! It is about sexual orientation, not gender. This is MY experience, why am I not entitled to it?

It is you have seemed to missed the point. Thank you for your "well wishes" to my non-State sanctioned relationship.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #17)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:08 AM

22. My understanding

of your reaction to what I said is that women, as usual, have no right to bring up their issues here. Well, I was bringing up my issue (with respect to the tone of your post), and I don't particularly care what you think of that. It's something I learned from participating in ActUp demonstrations back in the 90s.

So no, I do not have an issue with "gays": it is entirely insulting and accusatory to say that, and nothing in my post should suggest that to you. (Go into any pertinent thread and you will clearly see that that presumption is entirely unfounded.) My gay nephew would completely stand in solidarity with me on this issue, and on my post. Perhaps that is because he has a daughter. But he was completely aligned with feminist issues well before he and his husband adopted their daughter. So no, this is not about gay people. And no, I was not being accusatory. I honestly did not, and still do not, understand the purpose of your bringing up "your" issue in the context of SWM feeling under attack on DU. It doesn't follow at all from the premise.

Honestly, I was bewildered by your post. I'm even more bewildered by your response. We'll just have to agree that we do not understand each other, not one little bit. And that has nothing to do with gayness or not.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #22)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:16 AM

25. I think you are making this about some thing it is not, and for what reason, I don't know.

"I honestly did not, and still do not, understand the purpose of your bringing up "your" issue in the context of SWM feeling under attack on DU. "

If that is the true nature of your confusion, it was MY reaction to three posts where people were saying POSITIVE things about African-American and gay people, and posters took offense. One even referred to an OP as "white bashing." Thought I didn't agree with that assessment, and said so, I wanted to be clear I am simply relaying my experience was not about blaming anyone but rather trying to get others to see things from my perspective.

ETA: I was not involved in the "gender wars".

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:28 AM

13. I don't think that it should be controversial to say that LGBT people are disadvantaged.

I also don't think it should be controversial to say that people of color are disadvantaged.

There are two main issues with the "life must be so easy for you straight white guys" argument.

The first is that the obvious follow up question; "Okay, so what should I do about it?" is very pointedly unanswered because it's not meant to be a productive conversation, it's meant to be a jawbone to beat up groups of people chosen for fundamentally superficial and counterproductive reasons.

The second is "Does being a man make being gay easier"? "Would being a man make being black easier"? It seems apparent to me that the answer is no, society has been much quicker to accept lesbian relationships than gay ones, and by every meaningful metric, black women are doing better than black men.

So when people say that white male privilege is a thing, the answer is no its not, because male privilege (as a net effect) isn't a thing... but then one is accused of being a homophobe and a racist, because what good is a jawbone if you're not going to hit someone with it.

The yummiest thing in the world is strychnine-flavored ice cream with apple pie, and anyone who says otherwise is bigoted against ice cream and apple pie.

PS happy anniversary and thanks for your reliably sensible way of discussing contentious issues.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #13)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:50 AM

18. Your first two statements are how I wanted the OP to be, not the third statement.

I had hoped it would come out that way and it seems most people are viewing it that way, with one exception so far. I was just trying to demonstrate there are little things in life which remind us, while we have come a long way, we still are far from equality.

There can be some real issues when it comes to gay men. Notice how the fundies always complain about "homosexuals and lesbians?" It has to do with complete revulsion of gay men, as well as a sexist component against women.

Thanks for adding your PS because it helped me understand your post more. I appreciate the support.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:33 AM

15. Congratulations on your 12th anniversary

12 years, that is very special!

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #15)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 02:32 AM

32. Thank you very much.

It doesn't seem that long, but looking in the mirror, it sure has been that long! LOL!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:52 AM

19. Happy Anniversary!

Twelve years! Wow.

For the two of you~





It's not right that you can't find a card. Yet for years I have made my own, less expensive and so very personal. I use to but blank cards at Sams Club. Not around here anymore. Yet you can get a box of Royal Brites from the net. I print photos that I have taken or pics from the net.

You can have sweet original cards. They speak volumes where as Hallmark speaks regurgitated poop.

To you and yours a very happy anniversary, Behind the Aegis.





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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #19)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:08 AM

23. Thanks sheshe2!

I just told another poster, every year I think I am going to go to Tulsa or make my own card, and every year I fail to do so. LOL! I buy a serious card, a couple of silly ones, and ones that our babies (the furry ones) "sign." Some times I can be quite prepared, and others, well if I got paid for procrastination I'd be a rich man!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:54 AM

28. Happy anniversary to both of you, BtA!

Snail mail's too slow between here and over there, so this will have to do. My budget doesn't extend into sending pearls so I hope you like puppies

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #28)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 02:00 AM

30. Thank you! And yes, puppies are acceptable.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:55 AM

29. Happy Anniversary.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #29)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 02:33 AM

34. Thank ya, kind sir.

LOL!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 02:05 AM

31. bizarre op

 

?

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Response to frwrfpos (Reply #31)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 02:32 AM

33. OK. What was bizarre about it?

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #33)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 02:45 AM

35. maybe im up to late

 

sorry for not understanding the premise of you post

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Response to frwrfpos (Reply #35)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 03:07 AM

36. No prob. The premise may be a bit convoluted, but basically...

...I was just asking for people to think from a different perspective. Nothing too fancy.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #36)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 03:17 AM

37. Im always up for thinking from a different perspective

 

can you share what your perspective is? What is the point that your trying to make?

Sorry for being obtuse. I read you post again and I still dont get it

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Response to frwrfpos (Reply #37)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 03:19 AM

38. Basically, it was seeing things from a gay perspective.

Something simple, like buying a card, becomes a minor nuisance because they aren't there, outside of big cities and the internet. The same if one is African-American. They are relegated to a small section, rather than being included in a wider perspective.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 04:47 AM

39. I'm happy for you, but I'm sorry you're still made to feel "different."

If that one survey last year is anything to go by, the U.S. is lagging behind most (if not all) of Western Europe, and even parts of Latin America, in terms of gay acceptance. And there are those for whom even our age of relative enlightenment seems intolerable - I would suggest these folks not let the door hit their ass on their way to Russia or some other homophobe's "paradise."

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #39)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 05:12 AM

40. What survey? I'd love to see it!!

It isn't so much about feeling different, I am used to it. I was hoping some might be able to see things a bit differently, in a non-threatening way. Buying a card isn't a huge deal, it is simply a minor annoyance; not being legally married; that is a much bigger issue. We all have our blind spots.

Thanks for the well wishes.

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #41)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 05:16 AM

42. Much obliged!

I actually had not seen that one! Tomorrow (ok, later today when I get up), I will post this in the LGBT group, if you don't mind. I saw some articles that referred to the numbers, but didn't see the poll.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #42)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 05:17 AM

43. Sure! Of course!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 06:19 AM

44. I always enjoy reading your postings,

you generally give another perspective that many don't think about. What gets to me, now and then, are those who complain about "You aren't mentioning this........" The ones who always have to take someone to task because their favorite gripe was not spoken of. Call the WAHMBULANCE!!!!!

Happy Anniversary, brother, to you and your spouse. May you enjoy many many more years together.

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Response to Bohunk68 (Reply #44)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 05:19 PM

72. Thanks so much. We are hoping the stay on the old law will soon be dropped...

...then it is off to the courthouse!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 06:25 AM

45. Happy Anniversary BtA

and another thoughtful post.

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Response to maddezmom (Reply #45)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 05:20 PM

73. Thank you. It is good to see you!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 06:28 AM

46. Congrats!

I hope people don't focus on the example and not see that it is one of many possible examples. My husband is from a foreign country. I met him while he was on a temporary visa in the US. If we weren't a straight couple, he wouldn't have been able to move here and get a green card. That's a huge privilege of being straight. (Although we are thankfully moving toward federal marriage recognition.)

But any group that has privilege has it in many ways, some small and some not. And the small ones do add up. It's like microaggressions (which people here don't generally seem to get either.) They're little things but when you deal with a ton of negative little things, it wears on you.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #46)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 05:25 PM

74. Thanks and thank you for providing a personal touch.

Yes, the "card" was just a minor thing, an annoyance, the bigger things are more important, but the little things can really smack you around sometimes. TheHandpuppet made a good analogy above, "death by a thousand cuts."

I am reminded of my own privilege everyday in our home. My partner was born deaf in his right ear and I often get annoyed when I hear something and he doesn't or can't figure out where it is coming from (he has no directional hearing). I have to remind myself he doesn't live in the same world I do all the time and I have to understand this, even if it means I have to repeat myself or talk louder (which has never been a problem!).

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 06:31 AM

47. Happy anniversary, you two!



Maybe this will help with your 13th anniversary.
http://alittletotheleft.com/catalog/1

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Response to Heidi (Reply #47)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 05:26 PM

75. Thank you (both)! ;)

I'll give the catalog a once over...maybe by next year we'll actually be able to go to the courthouse. We could use some witnesses...hint,hint!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 06:42 AM

48. Marketing and distribution

I would think card companies make products available that try to represent their customer needs. It would be unusual to see a product line that didn't closely represent past or projected sales.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:08 PM

50. This is a very thoughtful post

Congratulations on your anniversary. I hope you and your partner have a great weekend and many more years of happiness together.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:13 PM

51. +1. nt

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:18 PM

54. Thank you for the post.

Congrats on the anniversary.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:24 PM

55. "when you don't see yourself in the merchandise or see yourself in a "reserved" section,

it can be a bit sad"

It sometimes hurts to be reminded that most of society sees you as the "other".

Great OP, K&R


Oops... And HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:25 PM

56. Look I didn't create the world we both find our selves in.

I know as well as you there are evil things SOME white men do. Get that? I KNOW that SOME white men do evil things.
You don't seem to want to acknowledge that we are not a homogeneous group?
Why? We are your allies not your enemy!

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #56)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:36 PM

58. If that's all you carried with you from the OP...

... that's really unfortunate because you weren't really listening.

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Response to theHandpuppet (Reply #58)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 03:36 PM

66. That all you have to say

Why do you think I need you're enlightenment?
I begin to think there is some kind of derangement syndrome going on here at DU. You sit on some lofty pearch and talk down to people.
I know nothing I say will penetrate you're all about being a one sided one trick pony you talk I need to listen.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #66)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 04:30 PM

67. I don't think you need enlightenment

But perhaps better reading comprehension would help.

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Response to theHandpuppet (Reply #67)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 05:29 PM

76. How many times in the past year have you posted about the

same subject?
Why the need to say what this is not about in your OP? That was just there for all to ignore?
Come on

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #76)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 07:42 PM

79. Pay attention

I'm not the author of this thread.

Really, you're just making yourself look foolish. Stop while you're behind.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 01:52 PM

59. Happy anniversay BtA...

No one should ever be made to feel like they're an 'other'.

K&R

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Response to one_voice (Reply #59)

Sat Feb 22, 2014, 02:58 AM

82. Thank you!

I appreciate it and a special tug on your shoulder ( )!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 02:02 PM

60. Happy anniversary.

Sorry you live in a state that exemplifies "flyover". I have mostly stayed in NYC,SF and now Palm Springs, and things get rude enough there.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 02:09 PM

62. Happy, Happy Anniversary!!!!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 04:31 PM

68. K&R and Happy Anniversary!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 04:33 PM

69. ~hugs you~

Someday it will be better my friend. I truly believe that.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 05:44 PM

77. I an White. When I was looking for that 'perfect' Valentine card, I noticed most were White.

 

And this is Kansas City, MO. A city with a high Black population.
Also what is missing are cards for people that live together - not married. I always have to pick out one for the "Wife".

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 07:36 PM

78. Thanks for a thoughful post.

I've been noticing that many of us here have stopped "talking to" one another and have moved to "talking at," or even more often "talking past." It's a shame, because we all have such interesting and unique viewpoints and experiences, and instead of finding the common threads we are picking apart the differences and turning them into canyons.

Different people have different experiences of oppression, exclusion, being defined as 'other' or 'them.' But instead of saying "I so get what you mean, and it sucks!" there are some who need to say "You think you're oppressed, come live my life, I'll show you oppression!"

I'm not sure why we do this, but it seems clear to me that the only ones who benefit from such an oppression competition are those who are truly in power -- the rich, well-connected, megalomaniacs who would be perfectly content to watch the rest of us sink while they sit high above and laugh.

It makes me sad.

(Your anniversary, however, makes me happy. Yay for you!)

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Original post)

Fri Feb 21, 2014, 08:00 PM

81. A very good example of something never

Noticed by those with privilege. Thanks for the reminder!

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