Pope Francis Gives Support to DC Abortion Protest

[SidDithers]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/pope-francis-support-dc-abortion-protest-21621790

Pope Francis is sending his support for an anti-abortion march today in the nation's capital.

Francis tweeted Wednesday that "I join the March for Life in Washington with my prayers. May God help us respect all life, especially the most vulnerable."

Thousands of anti-abortion demonstrators are gathering for the annual march to protest the Supreme Court's landmark 1973 decision that declared a constitutional right to abortion.

But he drives a Renault! And sold his Harley!

Sid

[JustAnotherGen]

1. He doesn't get a say

He's not an elected representative and will never be appointed to the SCOTUS.

[Bluenorthwest]

4. But when he says 'the poor' we are told he is so powerfully influential that

we must excuse his anti gay and anti choice rhetoric because his power around the economy is so great, he has, I am told over one billion followers who hang on his every word.
So if he 'gets no say' why then is it important to promote his 'poverty' words to the point of denying he is anti gay and anti choice and opposed to equality for millions of human beings he declares to be his inferiors, much as other world leaders have done in the past?

[JustAnotherGen]

5. That's a question for those who hold those words up

Do I think he's on the right path? Yep.

Can he at least try to bring his CHURCH out of the dark ages? Yep.

Will he probably end up dead for trying to do so? Yep.


This problem will be solved for you by someone from within his Church.

In the meantime - we have a house to win in 2014 and the greatest religious threat to American principles and values is coming from the Fundamentalist Protestants Americans in our own midst.

This guy living in the Vatican City - he's got nothing on them and their freakshows they have hidden in plain sight in Washington DC.

Michele Bachmann, Ted Cruz, etc. etc. was/are a greater threat to America than the Pope will ever be.

And I'll take my lumps for writing all of * that* up above.

[LuvNewcastle]

2. But, but........breast feeding!

He told them to breast feed in the Sistine Chapel! And he drives an old car and doesn't live in the papal palace! Why do you hate our liberal Pope?

[joeglow3]

18. You live in a nice black and white world

Personally, I am capable of supporting some positions of his while opposing others.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. Then you won't mind if others keep poining out that he's an anti choice anti gay

bigot, because that gives you a chance to show you do not agree with Francis on those things, right?

[joeglow3]

31. If it is an intellectual conversation

If it is just a scream for attention by hi-jacking every single thread and phrasing it in a manner that they believe negates the positive things being done for the 99%, I usually just ignore them.

[Bluenorthwest]

3. It was a huge anti choice rally

At least it gave the Pope Crew something to do on a winter's day.

[JaneyVee]

6. How can one be against poverty but for forced childbirth?

Especially for our country, which doesn't have universal health coverage or paid maternity leave.

[leftyohiolib]

7. when one believes in thou shall not kill

[Bluenorthwest]

9. And yet the Papal States, rule by Popes, executed people for about a thousand

years, ending in 1870. Thou shalt not what? Additionally, capital punishment was legal in the Vatican from 1929-1969, never enforced but on the books for use against one who attempted to or murdered a pontiff. Thou shalt not, unless you wish to, for hundreds of years on end.
This makes the 'just against killing' argument a weak foundation. This is without even looking to the Inquisition or other violent episodes carried out by the Church, this is simply capital punishment carried out for centuries in states rule directly by the Pope. Lists of the executed exist to inspect. It's long.
Thou shalt not make long lists of those you have killed then object to women's reproductive choice on the basis that you are very simply and wholly against killing.
Hypocrisy is neither a virtue nor a sacrament.

[leftyohiolib]

11. that's renerdering unto ceasar it's not the same thing as abortion

[Bluenorthwest]

13. The Pope was 'ceasar' in the Papal States. The Popes ruled them directly.

Each of those executions was done under the power of a Pope who was head of State as well as of the Church so I'm not sure what your argument it. The Book which says 'thou shalt not kill' said the same thing all through 1500 years of Papal executions. But they killed lots of people anyway.

[musical_soul]

33. Two things...

First, there is a difference between killing somebody who is innocent and killing somebody who is not innocent as capital punishment (Although I personally disagree with capital punishment. And the RCC, like other religions, did some unethical stuff way back when).

Second, should people being killed through capital punishment be the excuse to kill innocent babies? Okay, I get it. If you don't think the fetus has developed into a person yet, then it makes sense. However, if you do think that fetus is a person, then it isn't logically okay to say that it's okay to kill them.

If the fetus isn't a person, then that's one thing. If it is a person, then apply the same logical to the born as you would the born.

I'm too poor for a child. I think I'll kill my toddler.

I need to finish college. I think I'll kill my newborn.

I don't have insurance and neither does my child. I have to kill my child.

I've broken up with my child's father and don't wish to go back to him. I should kill the child.

I have too many children. I need to kill one.


Take any excuse for abortion and apply it to a born child. Does it still make sense? I don't think it does. If this was only done because of life endangerment, health endangerment, rape, and incest, that would be one thing.


Here's the reality of the situation.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

• The reasons women give for having an abortion underscore their understanding of the responsibilities of parenthood and family life. Three-fourths of women cite concern for or responsibility to other individuals; three-fourths say they cannot afford a child; three-fourths say that having a baby would interfere with work, school or the ability to care for dependents; and half say they do not want to be a single parent or are having problems with their husband or partner.[7]

Does that sound like the tragic cases of rape and incest that we kept dwelling on in 2012? No. It isn't. It's tough. It's horrible, but it's not the nightmare that some are envisioning during an election.

• Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use.[8]
• Forty-six percent of women who have abortions had not used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Of these women, 33% had perceived themselves to be at low risk for pregnancy, 32% had had concerns about contraceptive methods, 26% had had unexpected sex and 1% had been forced to have sex.[8]
• Eight percent of women who have abortions have never used a method of birth control; nonuse is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or less educated.[8]

That last part makes the case for why women need their pills covered. However, they do no good if they're not used or if they're used inconsistently. The only excuse that makes any sense for this is concern about the contraception (because some do have side affects). One percent was rape, and that's understandable. The rest of it is really no excuse. You thought you were lose risk? It was unexpected? Grow up.

And how many abortions are happening mostly because of inconsistent or non-use of birth control?

http://www.guttmacher.org/in-the-know/abortion.html

There were roughly 1.2 million abortions performed in 2008, and the abortion rate was 20 per 1,000 women aged 15–44.[31] Put differently, about 2% of American women aged 15–44 had an abortion that year.

1.2 million in 2008? Really? A million? I think the unbelievably high number is what finally made me turn. I was convinced it was probably a person, but didn't know where to make my stand. Somebody (a pro-choicer) reminded me one day that we have that many abortions going on in this country. That's ridiculous and uncalled for. Women should have access to birth control and coverage, but it's time we learned some responsibility.

[JaneyVee]

12. Then why does the bible offer a recipe for abortion?

[geek tragedy]

16. thou shalt not kill blastocysts? nt

[leftyohiolib]

19. apparantly

[geek tragedy]

20. sure, if one wants to control women's bodies, which is a long Vatican tradition, as witnessed

by their silly objection to birth control

[leftyohiolib]

22. i think the church would rather a woman who is not ready for a baby not have intercourse

but then that is also birth control so is it ok with the church? i dont know

[geek tragedy]

23. that would be a form of controlling women's bodies, nt

[leftyohiolib]

24. her body her choice

[msanthrope]

10. Let me tell you how you can be--if you care more about people's 'souls' than their

actual well-being, you can resign yourself a whole lot of injustice.....

So when boys are raped by priests, you can focus more on their souls than the abuse.

When girls are kept in servitude because their sexual sins, you can focus more on their souls than the fact that you are a sexual hypocrite.

And when the leaders of your Church tell you you are not fit to perform the sacraments....you focus on your soul, and how it will be 'equal' in heaven....

[Vashta Nerada]

8. Where's the picture of the pope with a cute quote next to it?

[SidDithers]

14. Here you go...

Sid

[Octafish]

15. Hey, Catholic DUers! The GOP welcomes your votes.

As long as you don't talk about justice, equality, economics or anything else the Pope has to say.

[el_bryanto]

17. Are you saying that Catholic DUers should go join the GOP?

Or are you pointing out that Pope Francis has said somethings that Republicans like (like the story referenced above) and some things they don't like (like his comments on the 1%)?

Bryant

[joeglow3]

21. I think he is talking to those who are incapable of making the delineation you just did

If you support of the pope's comments on the 1%, then you must be a pope lover/worshiper who also supports his views on gays and abortion. It is their job to bash the pope and accuse those of us who show support for his comments on the 1% as ignorant fools who support the oppression of women and homosexuals.

[Bluenorthwest]

25. I think the 'delineation' is a self indulgent bit of bullshit used by folks whose

actions demonstrate that they are accepting of hate speech against minority groups if they feel the hate speaker serves their agenda. I think it is a rationalization and others have no reason to accept that faulty reasoning. Wallowing in self serving excuses to the point that you can cheer for a bigot is a choice, but others do not have to help you make it.
Francis is the 1%, those he attacks are just gay people and women trying to live average lives in safety and equality.

[Chathamization]

26. I wouldn't say people who voted for Gore over Nader were guilty of "self indulgent bullshit"

Even though Nader was in favor of gay marriage in 2000 and Gore opposed it and supported the Defense of Marriage Act.

[SidDithers]

28. This is 2014, not 2000...nt

Sid

[el_bryanto]

27. This is where you lose me - I certainly agree that Pope Francis's words here

make it clear he is for a repeal of Roe Vs. Wade (which is March for Life's goal), so this is something we should condemn.

I think, though, that people who are supportive of this Popes statements on economic justice aren't supportive of his positions on homosexuality or abortion; I rather expect the support for the Pope will decline as he takes more actions like this. I really don't think that people are making excuses because they want to cheer for a bigot; that implies malice on the part of people do post positive reactions to the pope, and I don't believe (in general) that that's warranted. I'm willing to believe there might be a handful of DUers who genuinely see this pope as an excuse to flaunt their homophobia and misogyny but I don't think that's the case for most DUers.

Bryant

[Bluenorthwest]

29. Notice the tone and lexicon of the post to which I was responding.

I answered it in kind. That post not only suggests mental inferiority on the part of those who do not join in praising a homophobic anti choicer, but the poster goes to far as to say the objections to bigotry are just part of the 'job' of those who wish to distract from some 'message' Francis has. So anything I said was a pale comparison to that venom, attacking people for standing up for themselves and their families is revolting.
And yet you take no issue with that poster, the one who started that ugly tone toward DUers. Mark my words, I will always answer bullshit with better, stronger and more righteous language. Francis fans claiming gay activists are out to harm the 1% are not getting a pass from me. Sorry. Francis is the 1%. Deal with it.
The rationalization offered by that other poster, served with nasty characterizations of those who do not praise Francis enough is to me clear self indulgence. To cheer for a hate speaker means that one accepts hate speech if they feel some larger agenda is served by that hate speech. I don't think they 'want to cheer a bigot' I just think they are willing to, out of service to themselves.

[Octafish]

36. I'm saying DUers who belittle the Pope alienate Catholics from the Party.

One can disagree with the Pope, from abortion to gay marriage, and I respect people who do. It's another thing to mock him and misquote him on DU. That only serves to make Catholics less understanding of DU and more open to listening to those of another party.

The OP does the latter, in my opinion. Dividing Democrats and DUers weakens Democratic Party and DU.

[el_bryanto]

37. Yes - but it's a reaction to an action the Pope took

in which he supports people who want to overturn Roe V. Wade. Is that something we should ignore? Or look the other way?

I agree that interjecting how awful the Pope is at every opportunity is a bit of a problem; but when the Pope actually does something bad, I think we should feel free to critique him.

Bryant

[theHandpuppet]

32. Oh come on, Sid....

Don't you see? The Pope tweeting his personal blessings to the bussed-in, anti-choice parade in the nation's capital was simply his way of exhibiting just how his directive to de-emphasize the abortion issue should work. Nothing like the national stage for a teaching moment, eh?

[Jamaal510]

34. The Pope

is all over the map politically, isn't he?

[Egalitarian Thug]

35. K&R&Thanks for doing this. I hope this doesn't put you off and you continue to expose this

charlatan at every opportunity.

Even better, I hope that DU regains its sanity and puts all the religious, guns, and I/P threads back into their forums.