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Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:00 PM

re: Jahi McMath - for anyone who can stand a little more absurdity -

what the Bible has to say about death:

http://www.wnd.com/2013/12/theologian-says-brain-dead-doesnt-really-count/

The chief of a foundation that is responsible for the International Standard Version of the Holy Bible, a trained theologian, says the family of Jahi McMath has a legitimate argument against the hospital’s contention that she is “brain-dead” and her medical treatments should be halted.

She’s not dead.

At least, not according to the Bible’s definition, said Dr. William Welty, a Ph.D. who graduated from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and later taught New Testament Greek at Simon Greenleaf University.


Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/12/theologian-says-brain-dead-doesnt-really-count/#FvGCfjWUW8COoVjS.99

10 replies, 1104 views

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Reply re: Jahi McMath - for anyone who can stand a little more absurdity - (Original post)
LiberalElite Dec 2013 OP
Warpy Dec 2013 #1
enlightenment Dec 2013 #2
ljm2002 Dec 2013 #3
cthulu2016 Dec 2013 #4
JNinWB Dec 2013 #6
NickB79 Dec 2013 #7
intaglio Dec 2013 #5
LiberalElite Dec 2013 #8
intaglio Dec 2013 #9
JNinWB Dec 2013 #10

Response to LiberalElite (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:18 PM

1. Fine, then let her continue to live as they did in the bible

Turn off all the machines, pull the tubes out. If she's alive, she'll breathe and wake up.

If not, her body will shut down and she'll be freed from suffering a prolonged death.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:21 PM

2. Exactly.

The bible doesn't say anything about machines mechanically circulating the blood, so if they want to be true to the book, turn off the machines.

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Response to LiberalElite (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:35 PM

3. Just as I would not want others to decide...

...that I should NOT pull the plug on a loved one, I also do not think the family should be forced to pull the plug on their daughter against their wishes.

Biblical definitions have nothing to do with it for me. But I am appalled at how many people just blithely seem to think "Hey, the doctors say she's brain-dead, so just pull the plug and get over it already!"

Yes I understand it is 99.9999999999999999999999% certain she IS brain-dead and will never recover. Yes if it were me, chances are good I would have already had them pull the plug. But it isn't me, it's them. Who are any of us to dictate to them what is right in this situation?

I guess for me the question boils down to, who gets to make the decisions on end-of-life care? In this case, the parents are the legal guardians and it is their prerogative IMO, just as it would be my own prerogative if it were my own minor child involved in this very tragic situation.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:39 PM

4. Are they paying for it?

I doubt any insurance or government program covers the care of a dead person, so the question becomes, "What entity shall choose to expend a lot of money on the care of a dead person?"

I do not think any entity will.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:47 PM

6. This is not "end of life" care, it's "life is over" care.

Once it has been determined that a person is dead, why should the family be able to force the hospital to keep the dead person hooked up to "life-saving" machines.

The family can decide whether to end care when continuing the life support for a still-living individual is futile or cruel. That's not the case here.

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Response to ljm2002 (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:56 PM

7. In a world of limitless resources, yeah sure

Fuck, if we didn't have to worry about energy and resources, I'd say freeze every person in cryogenic suspension the second after their death so that maybe we could revive them a few hundred years from now.

Unfortunately, we don't have limitless resources. This girl's prolonged life support will bankrupt this poor family, as well as deny hospital care and services to other children in need of medical care.

The child is as dead as medical science can conclusively prove. She's been on life support far longer than any of the handful of similar cases that people point to to give hope she'll come back, so the body is already deteriorating more every day.

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Response to LiberalElite (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 04:41 PM

5. Please do not link to World Nut Daily

and please do not publicise the opinions of fringe theologians who are agitating the whole "death panel/cult" thoughts of extreme right wingers.

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Response to intaglio (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 05:03 PM

8. It states in this article

that this "biblical" definition of death may explain what the family's "faith" has to do with this sadly long-drawn out drama. I think it's interesting (and ridiculous). As far as publicizing fringe theologians affecting extreme right wingers, loony stuff like this is spouted by the GOP every single day.

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Response to LiberalElite (Reply #8)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 05:11 PM

9. It's still World Nut Daily ... n/t

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Response to LiberalElite (Original post)

Mon Dec 30, 2013, 05:24 PM

10. Years ago, as I recall, the Catholic Church had an sensible guideline for EOL care.

It was not necessary to attach an individual to life saving machines in order to preserve life. This makes sense for a terminal patient---no extraordinary, life-saving care must be provided.

Then, the CC apparently amended this guideline so that nutrition and hydration must be provided.

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