General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEn el cambío climático.
Last edited Thu Mar 15, 2012, 02:20 PM - Edit history (1)
So the other day there was a freak hail storm in Mexico City. Yes, hail has historically fallen in the city, but this one was just weird. It does not matter the mechanism, but in some areas they got 30 centimeters, in one a meter, before all was said and done.
Next day they had another one.
So I went looking. Since 1999 these freak storms have spiked.
Unlike us, Mexicans are not in denial about global climactic change. They have been living it for about two decades...floods, century storms, droughts, freak hail storms. It is not theory, it is every day life.
We are starting to live with the consequences. But by the time we collectively decide it is real, it might be beyond the point of no return. The ones I feel sorry for are my nieces and nephews, the mess they will inherit. Worst case the end of the worlders might be partially correct. Sorry guys, extinction is forever.
To speak plainly in a language some very religious people may understand...god promised not to destroy the earth by flood again. That promise has nothing about humans doing it themselves. Global climactic change is real, and potentially could be an extinction level event for apex species, which includes us.
Greed is not good, and we will not be given a last second reprieve. Those who do not help themselves...
Suffice it to say deniers are not just the very religious, those I almost get it. It is who we, very provincial, and at times not understanding the most basic of math or science, people are. (Yes, there is data on how behind we are other countries in math and science) It's hurting us, not just in competing on the world stage, but in understanding that climate is indeed changing. It's not a mild spring, that is weather. It's not a weird hail storm, that is weather...it's an increasing series of them over the decades. It is measurable data, such as increase in global surface ocean temp, and atmospheric temp. That is what climactic change is. And it is real.
Nadin
Donning my nomex.
guardian
(2,282 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Thanks for proving the point.
guardian
(2,282 posts)from climate change then it only makes sense to be prepared.
It was you who said in the OP, "Worst case the end of the worlders might be partially correct. Sorry guys, extinction is forever" and "Global climactic change is real, and potentially could be an extinction level event".
Sounds like you are a doomer to me. The only question remaining is are you 'prepping'?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)You are making my point.
guardian
(2,282 posts)So "the end of the worlders" might NOT be correct? We don't have to worry about "extinction"?? I'm confused. Which side of the argument are you taking?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Please do read on the Holocene extinction.
Anyway, you keep proving my point over and over and over. It is actually funny.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)there is a huge difference between highly intelligent and educated scientists warning about the grave consequences that are the undeniable facts of climate change and someone who has,without reason,decided that any day the shit is going to hit the fan.
guardian
(2,282 posts)are or are not warning that the "shit is going to hit the fan"? Which is it?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And are here for an honest discussion? But the short answer is, the shit is not about to hit the fan...it is in the process of hitting the fan, nature of the change we are causing. Oh and all those bunker preparations you suggest will do nothing to prevent that Holocene extinction we are in the process of undergoing, or stop surface water temp from going up, or sheets of ice to continue melting.
Instead of stocking up on ammo they suggest silly shit like reducing CO 2 emissions. If that is prepping, as you put it, then I guess they luuuve their solar pannel covered bunkers.
Thanks for the laughs. You are really funny in that ignorance of yours.
sudopod
(5,019 posts)In the US, we might actually make some money due to longer growing seasons, if that isn't balanced out by increased damage from bad weather. Now, drowning Bangladesh, or destroying the homes and livelihoods of billions of people, that is a whole other thing. I don't want that blood on my head.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Life will go on.
And will adapt to the new conditions. I am sure bacteria will, outside the lab, evolve to consume those plastics we are pouring into the oceans.
sudopod
(5,019 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)To use Carl Sagan's analogy.
guardian
(2,282 posts)"...beyond the point of no return"
"Worst case the end of the worlders might be partially correct..."
"... extinction is forever"
"Global climactic change is real...potentially could be an extinction level event..."
And many are saying we have either already passed the 'tipping point' or that we are close to it and it appears the world is not enough is being done to avert disaster.
I dunno. That sounds pretty bad to me. Gotta run and start prepping now.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Whoosh!!! And funny.
sudopod
(5,019 posts)The whole world is one giant high school.
guardian
(2,282 posts)If I take his predictions/words literally about dire consequences and doomsday then I'm disparaged. If I doubt the seriousness or inevitability of his predictions/words then I'm disparaged.
After all the OP isn't saying moderating things like climate change will be an economic burden for some and a boost for others, or will cause population patterns to shift, or that populations will have to adjust over time as has occurred in the past. Oh no. The OP jumps straight to the doomsday scenarios.
So which is it? Doomsday or not? If not, then why the fear mongering? If doomsday then how is suggesting preparing for disaster a bad thing?
Ok, then. :/ Whatever you feel is edifying.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Americans are mostly still in denial that it is happening.
Other countries, for example Mexico, are not. Partly because they have been living with the consequences for a generation ( that be 25 years) already.
Even smaller words... We need to join the rest of the world in first admitting there is a problem.
Now if you are preparing for a quake, flood or other disaster, good on you.
And your responses, so far, have been classic mocking of the issue. So I take it you are at least a binary thinker...and on the bright side you are making me laugh. That's a good thing.
greytdemocrat
(3,299 posts)That show on TV is hilarious. Last night they had some old hippie who bought an old missile silo and turned it into "Das Bunker".
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)Wow, that be one very large conspiracy theory for a conspiracy theory... wonder who is behind it all?
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Not getting the point of that picture
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)the ones denying it are usually either doing it out of financial reasoning or are just idiot repukes that hate intellectualism.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I wish it was a small group of people or the other. But plenty of progressives don't get it either. That is a mistake to think it's just fundies or just republicans. Acceptance of this in the US is the lowest among advanced economies.
We need leadership at the political level, but we also need education.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)but they are small in number I think.
It is still progressives as a group who are trying to lead the world into an age of freedom,democracy and enlightenment.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Denial is deep in the us. I suspect partially due to our issues with science and math.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)are so hellbent on destroying public education.
An enlightened and thinking public will not put up with their dark ages idiocy.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I wish I could blame a single party for this.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)To be honest.
But those who deny it on economic grounds...imagine the wealth possible f you get on the ground floor of this new age!
Problem is they no longer have the vision, same thing happened to the British.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)is due to good old fashioned rah rah america can do no wrong crap that is spewed from hate radio and elsewhere every day.
If we all considered ourselfs what we are,citizens of the world and really united together for the good of the planet none of this would be an issue.
Instead we are preached at endlessly that it is evil socialists that want to destroy us.
No it isnt it is well thought out people who are a lot brighter then at least half our population trying to save america from itself.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The other is...we are at an age when alternate fuels are being developed. We are lacking vision.
I'll give you a historical example. We were the first to deploy a naval vessel running on oil, when the Brits were still building coaling stations. The Brits could not conceive the age of coal was coming to an end...
These days the USN is deploying green technology and biofuels, at least that is different, for strategic reasons, but the rest of the country is still stuck on drill baby drill, instead of distributive solar on every roof. Germany, on the other hand, has done the solar on every roof.
Part of it is our titans of industry, to use Steele-Commager's term, have collectively lost their long term vission, which has been replaced with this quarter's profits.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)they are happy to destroy the planet for profit and when someone develops a green alternative,which has to and will happen,they will then crush the little guy out of the way and continue reaping billions without sacrificing a dime of their own.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)Something's wrong with this picture. And all the little "morans{sic} are dancing in the streets. "Oh how nice and sunny", "we didn't have a winter."
Doesn't matter whether you believe in global warming or not, but how about these considerations:
messes up the plants and farmers growing season with things starting to bud and bloom way too early
seasonal allergies coming on way to early
rapid growth of mosquitoes etc, coming way to early, not enough of them or other bugs got killed off.
wild animals giving birth too early, possiblity of more overpopulation
Oh lets not consider the consequences at all, just run around like spring(when it should still be winter) drunk lunatics, celebrating that they get to go golfing early.
This is not all a "good thing," the aholes. Sorry they make me mad.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)Normally, at this time of the year it is in the 50s and 60s. I had to turn on my A/C today.
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)The average here for March is usually somewhere in the low to mid 40's. Its near 70 today.
Hardly had any snow this winter at all either.
My cousins are farmers and this unsually warm weather this early is starting to get them worried too.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)who think they know more about this issue than the majority of climatoligists around the WORLD. They are so stupid, they can't see it.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)Unless you're making a pun over and over again. That could be the case, I guess.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)As used by the UN among others.
We are the few still using the less accurate global weather change.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)"Climactic" refers to the ultimate in a series; it's the adjectival form of "climax."
zappaman
(20,606 posts)ETA: Although maybe this means that bad weather is cumming?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But thank you very much.
Anyhow all you got off the op was that? It's almost as hilarious as our denier upthread.
It is actually VERY FUNNY. Thanks for the smile and the very good laugh.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)You could say "thanks" or you could change it, but no, just attack the poster as always.
Suffice it to say, it is actually VERY FUNNY.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)I think 'attack the messenger' is step 4 in the playbook.
Must not accept any correction seems to be the issue...nor any olive branch extended.
sP
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)And yeah, I didn't see much news or analysis in the OP, but the repeatedly misused word stuck out at me, so I figured I'd point it out to you.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I just smile these days.
What else to do?
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)but, why? it wouldn't serve your martyr complex and you couldn't play victim any more.
hell, you cannot even see a peace gesture when made in your direction...
sP
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)which was pointed out in a humorous way.
"Climactic" does not refer to climate or weather. The word you were thinking of was "Climatic." It's an easy mistake to make.
To make things even more humorous, the word "climacteric" also refers to menopause, when used as a noun. It's a bit old-fashioned, but it is one of the meanings, and the first one I thought of.
The poster was just letting you know about the misspelling.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)I'd always heard it as "global warming," "climate change," and "climatic change," but it seems like "climactic change" is used in many parts of the world.
I guess "climactic" would be the concept that once we've truly and well fucked this thing up, we will not only see "climate change" but a "climactic change" in all these changes to the climate...
From a "Vatican Times" article:
"Climactic changes according to the Bishops of South Africa"
http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/en/homepage/news/detail/articolo/cambiamenti-climatici-climate-change-cambio-climatici-10157/
(one would think that the Vatican, if not the folks we would turn to as experts on the term "climactic," might at least have strong opinions on the word)
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)"Climactic" refers to a climax or peak of some kind.
"Climatic" refers to climate.
it is simply an error in English, whether that error is made by a DUer or the Vatican.
Both are common words in English, and have different meanings.
Google each word, and you'll see.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)What is at issue is the question of how some parts of the world (may) refer to the phenomenon.
And, frankly, I found a number of scholarly articles that used the term "climactic change."
I'm not interested in getting in some larger argument here (honestly, I found the responses to the "wall of hail" story to be fair and within bounds). Today, I'm mostly pissed off about not many people giving a fuck about dying animals in Japan's exclusion zone.
I would ask you never to refer me to "the google," though, for vocabulary help, as it pushes me very close to the precipice of snottiness. How you could read my post and not understand that I am able to nimbly navigate between a series of similar but different words is beyond me, but my 800 Verbal says please do not refer me to the google. It makes me very angry.
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)I was not insulting your command of the English language, but was rather directing you to evidence of what I said. You could also consult a recent paper unabridged dictionary for the same results. The two words are not synonymous. They never have been. That they are misused is not the issue, really. All manner of words are misused, and even in "scholarly" articles.
You needn't look them up, though. That would be your decision.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)See this is where I get pissed off. You're not even reading what I'm posting. I happen to have reached the point where I agree that the haphazard quality of certain "journalistic" efforts have badly undercut the usefulness of these efforts. But there is nothing in my post that suggests that I think "the two words are synonymous." In fact, my posts indicate something entirely different - and yet this does not stop you from repeating something back to me that I am clearly aware of. This is rude.
You're clearly not listening/reading, but my point is that what would be relevant is not consultation of any form of generalist dictionary, but more something along the lines of consultation of someone with expertise in the field. As I said, I was surprised to find a number of experts using the word "climactic" to describe the phenomenon. And these would be people who know a hell of a lot more about the subject than I do.
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)But, I bow to your exemplary score on the verbal portion of your SAT. Very impressive, indeed. Yes, sir. Very impressive.
I took the SAT as well, but I don't offer my scores as evidence of anything. It's unseemly, I think. It's been a very long time since I was 17 years old.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)what university I attended? Or what publication employed me? Or where I presently am pursuing an advanced degree? Or what other respected organizations I have worked for in the more recent past?
I would be glad to share all these things with you, just not on a public message board.
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)Why would I want to know that information? Of what use would it possibly be to me?
DU is full of people who could list their accomplishments and test scores. Generally, they do not, because DU is populated with many people who have similar impressive histories. Instead, people post here and their intelligence and abilities are apparent in their posts. That is the only relevant factor at play on DU. I'd venture to say that we probably have more people on DU who have perfect or near perfect SAT scores than on most online forums. I could probably guess who they are with a reasonably good degree of accuracy. Such things are not a rare commodity on DU. Truly.
I'm very happy that you have been successful in your ventures. That's excellent.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)lol
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)green.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/23/home-home-on-less-range/
"The findings of the new report, published in the journal Climactic Change, can be extrapolated well beyond Californias boundaries, to Plains states like Texas, Oklahoma and Nebraska, where cattle are a bigger slice of the agricultural economy, Dr. Pendleton said."
It's very strange. I don't know precisely what journal they are referring to, but poking around, I suspect that the journal is actually called "Climatic Change." Still, if this is a misused term, the misuse extends surprisingly far past Nadin and random message board postings.
I have provided an explanation as to how I could see the term being a correct and intentional usage; as I said, I am not remotely an expert on the topic, and so I don't know if this is intentional usage or unintentional misuse.
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)other portions of the New York Times. Errors seem to occur more frequently in blog sections of many publications.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)and that this extends to all sections of the paper.
I am simply suggesting that the question may not be as straightforward as it appears on the surface. As I noted, I thought it was a funny misuse until I started to discover broader use of the "term" than I had expected to find.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)may be missing the point here. The focus on this one word by the mindless 'cave dwellers' seems to have caught on here sadly. Apparently the small minds of the far right never miss an opportunity to attack liberal women with gender based 'jokes' and unfortunately, they are being aided and abetted here by a few DUers.
Nadin's threads here have become very interesting from the POV of studying the behavior of mostly men from both the Left and the Right and how it is often difficult to tell the difference between the two.
Eg, I would expect most Democratic men to never supply fuel for misogynists on the far Right, but I was wrong. It seems that when it comes to making fun of women on the left, some men on the left have a lot in common with the 'men' on the Right.
We women have a lot of work to do.
Btw, to the small, childish minds on the Right the word 'climactic' gives them thrills and so as expected, sort of like little boys who just found out about sex.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)is only ok if it might not be read by someone from that other board? you never answered my questions from the other day which leads me to believe you were attempting to place the 'freeper' label on me and not just on some ephemeral viewer of the posts in these threads.
get this through your head...this is not about 'women'. this whole dust-up has been about posting factually correct information, proper use of terminology and the utter incapability of some people to accept that they might have been wrong and just make the needed adjustment and move on with the supposed topic of their post. you seem to be the one obsessing over sex...
sP
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)It was just a misspelled word. Climatic and Climactic are often confused by people. There are even a couple of pages on the Internet about that common error. It has nothing to do with sex, any more than the correct spelling, climatic, has to do with sex. It was just a misspelling, which several people corrected. Climactic has multiple meanings, depending on how it is used in a sentence. The one meaning it never has is one having anything to do with climate. That was the error.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)or you'd have nothing to be outraged about.
And what's with the obsession of FR? Who cares what they think?
dionysus
(26,467 posts)MineralMan
(146,262 posts)please, and all that sort of thing. But, it's all good. Nukular, nuclear...what's the difference?
dionysus
(26,467 posts)it's easy once you get the hang of it!
here's an example;
"are u out of ur mind!11! minneapolis will be in flames by years end. don't hide your head in the sand!"
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)M r ducks.
M r knot
C M Wangs?
L I B! M r ducks.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)jsmirman
(4,507 posts)an 800 back when that was actually hard to do. But what do you bench?
(There are a lot of other "qualifications" I could post, but frankly, I'm not interested in providing an online biography here)
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)and while i do not know your age i can imagine you're no spring chicken given the scoring method. and since you're concerned...i bench about 325. and my total for the SAT was 1580...one sitting...11th grade. but who cares? no one...that's who. and no one cares about your 800 verbal either. the use of the word is incorrect 'irregardless' of who is doing it.
sP
OnEdit : closer to 25 years ago...i'm gettin' old!
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)it's just that some aspects of one's bio are a little more anonymous than others.
Although I will tell you that you might be stunned to discover that those scores still matter in certain industries.
What is annoying about this (sub)thread is that I am asking a question and I clearly understand the difference in the dictionary definitions of the two words. As I point out in a recent post, a NY Times Science Blog appears to (mis)use the term. I don't know if this is a case of a broad misuse, or an intentional usage of a more aggressive word. If you have a facility with words, you should see that both scenarios are entirely possible.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)i was just shocked that you posted your perfect verbal SAT score to someone who doesn't know you from Adam's housecat on a board where the anonymity you reference is for the most-part impenetrable and therefore not something that could be verified. and while i also notched a perfect score on a portion of the SAT, i would disagree that my score would be of any interest to someone 25 years removed...if it had been more recent, then certainly.
that being said, whether it be simply climatic change or climactic climate change, either way we have some work to do and to do quickly.
sP
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)and am glad that you understand the point I am making about the potential thrust that could be implied by (the seemingly comical) "climactic."
My distaste was for the instructive in use of the English language, when my initial post (I would think) displayed a reasonable grasp of its subtleties.
My affection for and fascination with the English language has been a lifelong affair, with no terminal points or corresponding lack of continuity (with the exception, perhaps, of a year and a half spent on Wall Street, where... they actually still care about your scores - and where you have to work extra hard to avoid atrophy in portions of the brain).
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)i did not see the original post of yours that lead to all the discussion and reading back through i see your point. in fairness to the poster who suggested the use of an online dictionary, there are many many people who have an extremely limited grasp of the subtleties of the English language, due in part on some occasion to English not being their primary tongue and on others due to lack of interest in its proper use. and perhaps it was meant not as an insult to your abilities rather a suggestion due to a lack of familiarity with your prowess. but i could be misreading it...
sP
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)it's part of my writing style (so there is no *particular* reason to worry about your dirty mind).
I wasn't looking to make a grand argument for incorrect and careless usage; I am genuinely curious to know if a new terminology has been entered into the mix.
I will say that I'm less a fan of mocking people who we all know are using a second language; I am so spectacularly unable to learn other languages that I am in minor awe of even functional ability in a non-native tongue (and am perpetually humiliated by the wizardry of Nabokov).
I was less inclined to object to the pillorying over the hail dusting - "more, quicker, less accurate" should never be a journalistic goal.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)things...
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)i never claimed that tests don't accurately measure these things...but tests 20 from 20 years ago have little bearing on the world today and since this board is mostly anonymous why should it matter anyway?
sP
dionysus
(26,467 posts)ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)must be that whole 'god, i wish i could get out of here and enjoy the amazing weather' thing going on here at the office today!
sP
dionysus
(26,467 posts)ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)we'll let the outside observers decide!
sP
dionysus
(26,467 posts)MineralMan
(146,262 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)But it should make you feel good that while we women on the left don't share the amusement of the cave dwellers from the Right, your efforts are very much appreciated by them when it comes to playing with words that to them, have a sexual connotation. They are very childish and misogynistic as we all know when it comes to sex and women so it was to be expected of them.
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)did not have a sexual one in mind at all. Every dramatic film or novel has a climax, or climactic point where all the threads draw together and produce the turn of the story. The word is also used to describe a forest which has reached it's maximum productivity. The concept of a climax forest is well known.
The thing is that when words have multiple meanings, any of them can be used as reference. None of the meanings of climactic have anything whatever to do with climate or weather. None of them. The point here was not any specific meaning of the word climactic, but that it was misspelled when referring to climate. It does derive from the word climax, but not in a sexual sense.
I don't do misogyny. It's not my thing at all, and it never even occured to me. You chose the meaning you wanted to. So did I, and it wasn't the same one you chose. My interest was in the misapplication of the word due to a misspelling. Spelling is not gender-specific. Have a great day.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)"Climactic" has nothing to do with the climate. They do share a root, which means "slope" or "lean," but "climactic" is from "climax," while "climatic" is from "climate."
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)my point was that they may be using a term that suggests that all the changes to the climate will soon reach a climactic point.
You're all interested in words - I'm not clear how you can miss the subtle distinction I am making.
It may also be nothing more than poor translation, albeit a poor translation that appears to be deployed surprisingly often.
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Strike you as a denier too...
Given you are a corporate dem, this is hardly surprising.
Have a good, even magnificent day.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)funny you think you know me. quite funny indeed
i shall continue to be entertained by the stories you invent. the "climactic" fantasies do make me laugh. mayhap another tall tale about missing\dead\fake soldiers is on the way?
ta ta
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)All but shocking.
Have a fracking long life.
I guess you also will call it wrong as Cambio climatico. And question the whole post on that.
Bye.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)"climactic" change.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Is happening or not?
That is the question?
From you making fun, I'd say you do not believe it.
But do answer...do you think it is even possible? Or is this a conspiracy?
That is what the OP is about. What you do, very well mind you, is harrastment. But on this one, you are making me laugh and hard.
I call it petty, as in very petty, to go Lolz over real tragedies already affecting millions outside US borders...
I call it real low to Lolz over the drought affecting northern Mexico and Texas, leading to real personal tragedies, and crop failures.
I call it mean spirited to Lolz over expected famines, and a whole sale species extinction ranging from the monarch butterfly to the polar bear.
At the very least I call it ignorant.
And if you think I am exaggerating it is high time you stop the lols and start reading some of the science.
Or perhaps not...laughing and being mean is always easier and I guess that far more satisfying. At this point you do not anger me. You do not amaze me, I just feel sorry for you. Bullies like you Lolz at human suffering. It is just hysterically funny to petty people.
DU has it's fair share of those. So go on, Lolz. Show to the world, or at least this community just how petty you are. You are far from reaching your full potential. You still have ways to go... So keep at it, I am sure some day you might reach that pettiness platonic ideal.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)that make me laugh, if you haven't gotten that yet.
our cities were supposed to in flames already to to the OWS\proletariat uprising, remember?
oh wait, they're not, and they won't be.
so you double down an accuse me of laughing at drought victims... at famines... really now? where on earth do you come up with this stuff?
it reminds me of that "whistle blowing, murdered special forces soldier that actually didn't exist" story.
perhaps if you made fact based, credible claims, instead of resorting to outlandish hyperbole, or posting wild speculation, if not fabricated claims, as fact, on a wide variety of topics, all the while claiming to be an expert on everything, perhaps i wouldn't find it all so amusing.
i understand that you dig the attention these wild claims bring to a thread, i really do. but please be realistic, and don't expect everyone to buy it.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Who knew? Thanks.
You are so funny...
Here is the hyperbole.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002420386
I guess they were really busy at the studios...that is just one of the newscasts.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)look at any other picture of the storm. the area wasn't blanketed with a foot plus of hail, it just wasn't.
where it wasn't washed into piles, it looks like this;
you aren't entitled to your own facts.... i'll bid you farewell for now... but i'll leave you some homework.
take a handfull of BBs and drop them into a bowl. observe.
then drop the same handfull of BBs into a baking sheet. observe.
then tilt the baking sheet to one end and observe.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)What part of regardless of mechanism and this is highly unusual and freak for Mexico city are you so obtusely still missing?
Or that these freak storms have spiked since 1999 as predicted by the science?
I bask in your willful ignorance.
I admire you for your dogged pursuit of that platonic ideal though, keep at it, you have ways to go still.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)storms and "climactic change" don't exist.
it's the misuse of the word "climactic" plus doubling down with hyperbole that are entertaining folks on this thread. you should have realized this by now.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Happy now?
I love your mean spirit...you make me laugh
I will stick to the Spanish term and metric system for the perfect people like you
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Well, at least you didn't delete the OP like you did the last time you were wrong.
And if you are going to stick to the metric system, I suggest you study it a little more since 60cm still doesn't equal one meter.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
SlimJimmy
(3,180 posts)Global warming
Global weather change
Global Climate change
Global Climatic change
Global Climactic change
It's hard to keep track these days.
sudopod
(5,019 posts)things such as time-averaged and area-averaged means, shifts in oceanic and air currents, and so on, that explain (or cause) the place of local temperature decreases in the wider picture. That, and the inexplicable confusing weather and climate. Hey, it snowed in April, GLOBAL WARMING LOL. Those people, sadly, also tend to vote, and they tend to elect Republicans who widely publish the same distorted view of the world.
You are not one of those people, though, I'm sure.
SlimJimmy
(3,180 posts)changing the terms from one year to the next.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
dionysus
(26,467 posts)that was bugging me
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Brickbat
(19,339 posts)raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Buy more iPads and crap from China?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Don't worry the utilities will fight it every step of the way as "impractical" and from their POV it is. Distributive energy distribution does cut into their current models.
But that is a very real and concrete part of the solution.
Now if you want to distract by that stupid comment I will take it that you are in the denial club.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Than trumpeting the purchasing of cheaply made third world goods like the iPad which have a very large and detrimental impact to the environment.
I am glad to see we can agree now that some things are more important than new toys.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Regardless I hope that computer you are using is at least fifteen years old... you must have confused me with somebody else.
(And manufacturing should come back to the US, even for STRATEGIC reasons in this case, but that is another discussion)
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)When you used the "fifteen year old computer" line in another thread about Apple I took it to mean one couldn't discuss the ramifications of manufacturing at facilities like Foxconn unless ones computer was at least 15 years old.
I didn't realize it was just a general hope that I was using an old computer. Yes, almost 13 years old. So, not 15 like yours but not too shabby.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)On the other discussion, and why we need to bring all that production home. (And I support the rights of Chinese to organize, in fact any ally of labor must support labor organizing at home and abroad and unions most go international in more than just a name).
Foxxcon makes X-360s. There was a time that it was Ilegal to send a gaming console, hell a calculator, to China and the USSR. Why? The same chips were used in the space program and the strategic missile command.
You want to take a gander where the chips that drive our tomahawk systems come from these days? Not Texas, those plants closed a long time ago.
As I said a completely different discussion.
But to add I know the components in my gaming rig, hubby's, PC were made in just as bad of working conditions as the IPad. What we try to do is use hardware until it literally falls appart and not replace with each new generation. I suspect I will be able to push this iPad one to at least version six of hardware...but I will continue to look for ways to support
But the creative destruction of our high tech is to the point that kindles (made at Foxconn) can't be made in the us...no, not for the excuses given by Amazon...chiefly the factories simply do not exist in the us.
As to the solar panels on every roof, seems the Chinese, with their horrific environmental record, are embracing that plan.
Rex
(65,616 posts)I thought climate change was accepted here as boring fact. It is already too late to a certain extent, but I am one that believes what will be will be. We will live with the consequences of our actions, it is a human trait. Humans will not go extinct, we will toss everything living first into the abyss. Something will stick first, besides my money is on an huge planet smasher in another 500,000 years.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And it is party independent.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Thought we were all above the lies.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)they make it a hobby to jump on left wingers posts.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I have had talks with people way to the left of you and me that honestly believe this is a conspiracy...just like their RW counterparts.
The reasons for the conspiracy are different, but it matters little how much real world data you show. Teflon comes to mind. Partly I think it is the theoretical, we are not feeling it yet (we are starting).
I remember having a conversation about this in Mexico oh twenty years ago with a family member. He sounded like any current denier here. After twenty years of really increasingly weird and violent weather, he's become a hard core believer. I predict this will happen in the States as well.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)I just notice the same folks ridiculing the same folks... it's like a high school clique.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)doing that kind of activity on DU3. I think the transparency page did a lot of them in as far as serial stalking goes. It is one thing to berate a OP, it is quite another to berate the owner of the OP imo. And it shows a lot more here then it ever did on DU2.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But the web is just a really big high school, cliques and all.
Rex
(65,616 posts)The weather in Texas has been completely unpredictable since the first day of the year. It is going to rain...nope, not going to rain. Gonna be sunny...ooops foggy and wet. This year is so unlike last years drought that people don't know what to say about the weather.
Organic material either adapts to a changing climate, migrates or dies off. That is just the way it is. Nature is brutal, but not cruel.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Is having massive crop failures. The Feds have had to send food and water to keep the Tarahumaras alive.
Rex
(65,616 posts)It would be amazing if the shift caused south Texas to become a sub-tropic zone!
What are the contengency plans in place for the government? Can they substain the populace? That is horrible nadin!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Long term, I am afraid they will lose ancestral homes to the change, or learn Israeli style agriculture. They are mostly hunter gatherers.
Speaking of Israeli style, that's something Texas should be doing too, and that includes cattle raising.
Pathwalker
(6,598 posts)call it "growing climate destabilization". The deniers are all in hiding here in Michigan today, but they'll pop up on a cold day in May and say it proves global warming is a hoax. That's when I tell them it's proof of growing climate destabilization, which scares them. By the way, it's 78 degrees here today - in freakin' March!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But I like yours too.
global climate destabilization
Global climate change
Better than global warming, even if technically the earth is developing a generalized fever.
Rex
(65,616 posts)there were people in the Big Tent Party that hated leftys! Being lefthanded...I take double offense! I mean, I always knew about the Dems that hated 'hippies'. This is something different imo. This goes far beyond that imo.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Were Rockefeller Republicans at one point.
Others are just way "conservative" and like to run from commies. Shhh don't ask them what's a commie.
And then there are those who swear we have an actual organized dangerous unamerican left. I wish I were kidding and demand which model of commie paradise we want, Cuba or the USSR. They have no idea what to do with sweeden and social democracy.
Rex
(65,616 posts)One I did not see until posting here. All the Dems I know in RL, be they moderate or very left never fight about topics at meetings. So this was something new for me to experience and yeah I should know better. Been posting since it was a BB service. Just strange to witness. Kinda like hating a kid that talks about sunshine and flowers all day long. Who cares?
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The commie paradise, that was my brother...ah propaganda! I pointed out that truly I am a dang capitalist, like them sweeden and Adam Smith...break up monopolies, well you know the drill.
He is deadly afraid of socialized (run) medicine, even though he is not in private practice. And when his daughter graduates, I am betting she will join most younger doctors who want it.
There were a few that we're wtf. I mentioned Texas wants to take Jefferson out of textbooks. Well the Austin Observer ran the story and it should have become a national story. Between his schedule and basketball he'd never see it anyway. In some ways he's a perfect example of the power of propaganda. I feel sorry to a point, we are at the edge of major changes, he is in for a surprise.
Rex
(65,616 posts)as some form of ponzi schema planned up by the socialists and marxist(ists?) that run America. They sounds as brainwashed as your brother in their own Pavlovs Dog kinda way.
When the climate changes, drastically, no one will be able to deny it. That is what keeps me going, knowing that the truth will either be a gust of wind or a 400 foot wave of water. It will happen, it has happened thousands of times in the past WITHOUT our help...what makes people think it won't happen again? Silly.
Yeah it is this Man against Nature kinda mentality.
Silly.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Ironically self inflicted.
Yes, we have a better chance since we are tool makers and all that. But it is Te tool making that brought us here.
We need a fundamental cultural change, and truthfully the end justifies the means and greed is good need to be jettisoned as cultural imperatives, if we are to make it as a species.
Rex
(65,616 posts)And the irony of all this is that we CAN forment change and be willing to adapt to make the biosphere a better place for all organic material...and a second later get obliterated by a huge comet.
I am the optimist in this senerio and believe we will somehow makes changes...even after so much damage has already been done. Somehow we will survive.
Life is strange sometimes. You struggle and win, then lose it all to random chance. Maybe.
There are just too many probablilities in this, one thing is constant - the global environment will change, has changed and is reflective of where we are with our tools and our knowledge.
Sadly, it seems greed is the big trend atm. Greed is never a friend to conservation.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Corporations are known to do that.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Japan had it's nuclear crisis last year. Some were so obvious it was painful to watch.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But some of those were way, and I mean waaayyyy obvious.
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
TheManInTheMac
(985 posts)Found some photos here and that hardly looks like a meter. It doesn't even look like 30 cm. Maybe an inch or two (2 1/2 to 5 cm).
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Vid of half meter concentration was posted yesterday.
And at this point I care little what YOU OR YOUR FRIENDS believe.
TheManInTheMac
(985 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Have a good day.
onethatcares
(16,163 posts)we're screwn.
My thoughts run to the fact that the planet is way more populated than it ever has been, with far more factories spewing garbage into space or the atmosphere than ever before, we have an uncounted amount of automobiles/trucks and transportation modes that sit idle in traffic tieups spewing carbon dioxide than the earth has ever seen . And my own very personal observation that at two p.m. every day that the sun is out in sunny left coast floriduh, it seems that a rheostat has been cranked to mid high although it's only mid march.
do I feel it's too late to stop it, hell yes.
I'm just glad I won't be around when my grandkids ask, "Why didn't you guys stop this shit? You knew it was happening and you went your merry way".
I'm joining Nadin inthe nomex.
Peace.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Oh oh oh! YES!
Also, while I think this is a good post, I disagree that most USians are in denial about climate change. Most Americans don't get massive donations from engergy companies, but the people in power sure do. So basically they're paid to deny that man-made climate change exists.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)My neighbors are not getting massive donations from Shell Oil.
Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)I don't think most people are in denial of global warming so much as they are resigned to it.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)In a bluer by the day city, no less.
Pathwalker
(6,598 posts)it was cool that day, so most of them chortled how that proved it was a hoax. I got angry and told them to go to oplin and Tuscaloosa and tell it to the survivors of the EF5 tornadoes. They gave me dirty looks and shut up. They're EVERYWHERE.
Tornadoes just struck Dexter Michigan, it's March 15th. Spring begins next week, and the people of mid-Michigan are being told to get that major storm that will hit here on the 1st day of spring, my son's birthday.
But climate change isn't nearly as dangerous as spelling errors!!!
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)This is early June weather, not March!
Something is not right with the weather, a few screws are loose somewhere.
Locrian
(4,522 posts)I feel the same.
I think a lot of people don't want it to be true and are in denial. That will change.
There's a tendency for people to not want to change their current pattern, and this
will require EVERYTHING to change.
There's a quote by someone (I forget) and it goes like this:
"People say *I'm* want to change everything - I tell them, no, EVERYTHING *is* CHANGING"
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)We are finally starting to live it.
ananda
(28,837 posts)That means a change in climax. LOL
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Cambio climatico. Happy now?
MineralMan
(146,262 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)MineralMan
(146,262 posts)It's all good, no doubt.
TeamsterDem
(1,173 posts)system (or SI). Well, aside from Burma and Liberia. So science isn't a real strong suit of ours. Yes, our scientists and professional types use it, but the fact that we still teach children this antiquated garbage speaks to a general disdain for science.
I've lived in various parts of South America and have literally never met someone down there who didn't believe in climate change. They're usually stunned to discover that there's even a debate in the US about it. It makes us look very bad internationally. That and when someone asks you how far away something is and you have to convert miles to kilometers (or vice versa) in your mind before you can answer.
I love my country and I'm proud of it in most respects. But we'd really do very well to embrace science and math and try to compete - in place of our current "competition" for the position as the most industrialized nation to consistently do the most embarrassing stuff on the world stage.
Don't pay attention to those so disturbed by your word choice. Most of us got your point and aren't so small as to argue with you as if we were English professors and this were a classroom. This certainly isn't the latter, and I suspect that most of those attacking you for that word aren't the former. If you speak Spanish (as suggested by the title) I'd tell you "no les hagas caso porque no vale la pena."
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)When it comes to these petty folks that might not be fit to print in either language... But mostly at this point I feel sorry for them. They have shown themselves as really small, petty bullies.
That said south America has been living the effects too. We are really starting to...five years most of the denial will disapear from the vox populi...our political and religious class...maybe not. Every year it is less and less, because F-5 tornadoes are happening more often and spring is comming faster.
TeamsterDem
(1,173 posts)But you're right, ultimately, because you were making a scientific point, not publishing a dictionary. If anyone's ever read a scientist's notes ... well, spelling mistakes aren't exactly the strangest of happenings. Yet it's their science which is important. So to attack your spelling in a scientific discussion is, well, pathetic.
With respect to South America and of course Mexico which you mentioned in your OP, yes, they live the effects as do we. The difference is that science trumps their debate whereas doubt, cynicism, and money trump ours. Er, maybe not trump, but it certainly has a MUCH larger role here.
And don't forget, nadin, the current discussion about the earthquakes in Ohio as yet another manifestation of corporate money creating doubt about science. I know it's not terribly to-do with your OP, but the fracking in Ohio was found to have "likely contributed to or caused" the earthquakes in Ohio, yet even still people just aren't quite "sold." I described that situation to a friend of mine in Peru just to see what he would say about it: No, he's no a scientist, but I was more seeking which way his cultural leanings would take him. His first question was "aja y qué dicen los científicos?" It seems here that sometimes that question - in English, of course - isn't first on the list. That's sad. We have good science on these things, yet we allow bad science or just pure politics to confound the findings as if there is no consensus when of course there actually is.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)In Mexico city was the guy in charge of the weather service explaining the mechanism for the freak hailstorm and why they are more and more common. (More energy in the atmosphere, high midday temps and a clash with a cold front). It was not the station weatherman, but the head of the weather service.
Compare to my local channel nine (KUSY) weatherman, a well known denier.
As to OH... It is really old basalt. I got no idea, beyond greed that is, what they were thinking.
TeamsterDem
(1,173 posts)I mean here if the persons in charge of our weather services (there are several) were to simply discuss the science behind climate change some Republican - likely James Inhofe - would seek to censure him/her, and the stupid media would pretend as though both sides have a valid point of view (Chuck Todd would probably call it "political cat nip" . But in MANY other countries they report on it without incident because science hasn't (yet) been totally bought/politicized.
You know what I think it is, nadin? At least partially I think it's that many Americans seem to be unattached to outcomes. For example, I remember hearing a ton of people talk about "let's go to war" (with whatever country), meanwhile many of them had never served in the armed forces. Of course a non-veteran is allowed to have their opinions. But I'm referring more to the wily-nily nature of their statement as if going to war is just some little exercise, some unimportant endeavor. And in a strange way it was "unimportant" inasmuch as those people didn't have to go serve in the war for which they were advocating. It's easy to be wily-nily when your ass isn't on the line.
Same with climate change: To most people a degree here or there isn't a big deal. A few F-5 tornadoes are important but not really, not if it isn't your butt living in the affected area. A few earthquakes here and there aren't important if you weren't in the affected zone. And so on and so forth. I call it the "my ass is the only important ass" philosophy: If my ass isn't directly endangered there's no danger. It's the anecdotalization of facts: If I can't personally observe and be affected directly by the thing, then it ain't a thing. It's a "theory." And don't even get me started on what's happened to the definition of "scientific theory" as relates to evolution: These people confuse theory with something akin to a hunch.
So sad to see this stuff happen here.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And also taught from early on it is all about number one and not about the commons.
We are paying a huge price...but I think Occupy is the backlash to that cultural imperative, and not soon enough.
While many talk of the I, occupiers talk of the we and ours. This matters. So that gives me some hope...
TeamsterDem
(1,173 posts)and he looked at me as though I was quoting Das Kapital or something. When I explained that the commons means rather generally things that we all own like national parks and that it's not a communist or capitalist term, he seemed wholly perplexed by the term, saying and I quote "sounds commie to me." Mind you, this guy is voting Obama this fall, and he voted for him in '08; he's not exactly a rabid right-winger.
My point is that even those who mostly agree with us on the majority of issues (such as this friend who in reality - much as he may not want to admit it - is a conservative to moderate Democrat) seem either through language or actual, fundamental beliefs to have no attachment to commonality, to community. I proposed to him the idea that if I were to walk up to the nearby park and saw some trash strewn on the grass that, while not required by law to do so, I *SHOULD* clean it up - provided it's not dangerous to touch, such as discarded chemicals or something. He disagreed saying that taxes are "supposed to fund the cleanup of parks." So I countered by saying that taxes have been cut so dramatically that often times things like that simply aren't in the budget, and further that my sense of community tells me that I should have some pride and some duty to what is collectively ours.
I hope you're right about Occupy. I'd like to see much more talk of community of interests and commonality instead of divisive rhetoric designed to instill the selfish, greedy behavior that causes us so many problems.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I wonder how long it will take to get out of it. But even here on DU we see those problems.
Good on you and your friend. That is partially what it will take.
On life and death, my brother is all for the wars. Well, he no longer argues with us, we ask the uncomfortable question which of his two daughters he will offer at the altar of Mars? Hubby is a vet, and in a way so am I, so that question made him very uncomfortable. I am for a draft, and that is the reason. Of course the first to sign up should be the sons and daughters of Presidents, members of Congress and the Supreme Court. Followed by the sons and daughters of heads of mic companies. But the only way to stop the hunger for war is to make it concrete, the consequences that is.
TeamsterDem
(1,173 posts)It will take time to throw off the shackles of right-wing idiotry which have infected so many areas of our lives, now openly invading education vis-a-vis the Koch Brothers funding schools, arguably to push their vision onto the younger generation.
I just hope that the lessons of the bank (ruling, rich elite class) excesses aren't soon forgotten as we have a habit of doing in this country. This was a very stringing lesson so maybe it won't. I sure hope not anyway.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)play the victim...keep it up...
sP
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)To be honest I was expecting another one of your cohorts...
Should I expect you to follow now thread to thread like some?
Goody.
But this is exactly what I am talking about...petty. It is junior high school worthy.
For the record, it is you who goes out of way to post on my threads. I have yet to post in one of yours, no interest mostly. I even do the adult thing, and don't even click on them. You might want to try that, or continue to remain in high school. Your choice.
By the way bullies usually point and laugh, you are doing the equivalent.
Have a good day.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Pathwalker
(6,598 posts)not so much. Here in mid-Michigan, we're told to get our tornado rooms ready for the 1st day of spring because there's a MAJOR storm coming, and tornadoes will happen.
I guess we're lucky we won't be facing those deadly, horrifying spelling errors!
We've got tornadoes in Michigan NOW! And it's not even tornado season yet.
Junior High? More like grade school.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)On a very serious note be safe.
On another serious note, tornadoes are moving to places like Nuevo León, hubby and I were noting that hurricane alley seems to either be widening, or moving south.
You be safe.
Pathwalker
(6,598 posts)Just need to gather a few more things, and we'll be ready. Seriously, the weather is getting out of control, beyond weird. It's affecting the crops here, there, everywhere. NBC said last night that by 2030 coastal flooding will be so bad that the inland exodus will be in full swing, so it's only going to get much, much worse. Some days I just want to give Americans a "Gibbs slap"*, so they'll wake up. DU doesn't give me much hope.
*NCIS reference