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Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:28 PM

My sexual orientation is being used as a political fucking football. 43 years of this crap.

Last edited Fri Dec 20, 2013, 12:55 PM - Edit history (2)

This bullshit has been going on in my life now continuously since I was born. I am 43.

When I was 11 my parents refused to let me carry on seeing my friend after we'd moved town as they were convinced he was going to turn me gay.

When I was 13, my mother instructed me not to come back to her house gay after I'd been away to University as she didn't want AIDS in the family.

When I was in secondary school I was beaten up every lunchtime, pretty much every single day, for loads of reasons of which being supposed to be gay was only one by the same group of four fucking jocks who decided they'd taken a fancy to me.

When I finally got a job, the entire nation was on the brink of repealing Section 28, which forbade positive depictions of homosexuality in the classroom. Brian Soutar, who owned a stagecoach company, pulled together a "referendum" out of his own funds and achieved an ~80% NO REPEAL vote in his little poll.

During that little debacle, the staffroom at my place of work was alive with talk of how those awful homosexuals should learn to LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE. These were people who knew I was gay and had worked with me for over 5 years. They just came right out with it in front of me as if I wasn't even there. These were people I had actually respected.

There was a brief period of about a year when the political climate looked as if it was about to change and then South Park re-popularised the word "gay" as an insult rather than a primarily descriptive term, by pretending it was really supposed to mean something else and was hence "ironic".

Youtube has "gay" written all over it by sniggering heterosexual teenagers.

During the 90s and early 2000s a whole pile of "metrosexuals" appeared who apparently I was to regard as a kind of tacit approval of my sexual orientation by virtue of their willingness to "take a walk on the wild side".

Also during the 90s and 2000s, the phenomenon known to speakers of languages like Greek and French, in which nouns have genders, acquired a peculiar cousin in the form of objects, abstract concepts and forms of behaviour acquiring sexual orientations. "Is this shirt gay? Is this table gay? Are wind chimes gay? Is checking out porn with your buddy gay? Are sandals gay? Is owning an aquarium gay? Is having facial hair of THIS length or THIS length gay?"

In recent times it has apparently been my fault that heterosexuals can't keep their marriages together, and their marriages don't really mean anything because promises made in front of God only count if there's something weird and unwholesome about gay people, if there ISN'T, well God will be JUST fine if you do whatever the hell you like after swearing an oath in his house.

There are executions of gay people all the time in Middle East... Vladimir Putin can't think of anything to do to deflect attention away from his thick-as-pigshitness and total incapacity to do anything of any meaning with his country except squash the demographic least able to effectively fight back... Is anyone surprised that it's Teh Gays?

And now we have a TV show with some beardy guy being honest and humble and just "expressing his opinions".

There's a reason for all this.

There are never really going to be enough gay people in the world to make our votes count enough for any of the people who can change anything. We are too small in number. They don't really need to take us into account for any more reason than a kind of political vanity project. I don't think the Right's homophobia is as clearly expressed near the top of its rickety pyramid anywhere near as strongly as it is in the foundations.

Anyway, they can use discussions about me and all the other gay people out there as statements of their wider intent. As ciphers.

It's okay to pretend openly that gays are secret pederasts among certain demographics, so you can use that to legitimise wider, more subtle forms of bigotry. After all, if the behaviour of one entire demographic can be reduced to a few simple lies, why not other demographics too? It's very useful to have one demographic that you can just squirt your adjectives and your "HOW does this make ME feel about ME" theories all over with impunity. It supports the subtler forms. One great big tentpole of "GASP! LOOK AT THE FURRRRREAKITY FREAKS!!!"

I'm afraid I've sort of resigned myself to the idea that this is probably how it will always be.

I blame Putin for this, as he pulled his "EEEEEK TEH GAYS" trick out of the hat for no identifiable reason at all.

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Reply My sexual orientation is being used as a political fucking football. 43 years of this crap. (Original post)
sibelian Dec 2013 OP
LineReply .
Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #1
sibelian Dec 2013 #28
Trillo Dec 2013 #2
sibelian Dec 2013 #29
Tikki Dec 2013 #3
sibelian Dec 2013 #36
HappyMe Dec 2013 #4
sibelian Dec 2013 #30
IdaBriggs Dec 2013 #5
sibelian Dec 2013 #37
lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #6
sibelian Dec 2013 #38
YoungDemCA Dec 2013 #81
sibelian Dec 2013 #85
vaberella Dec 2013 #107
loli phabay Dec 2013 #7
sibelian Dec 2013 #26
loli phabay Dec 2013 #27
sibelian Dec 2013 #31
loli phabay Dec 2013 #51
sibelian Dec 2013 #54
loli phabay Dec 2013 #57
sibelian Dec 2013 #62
loli phabay Dec 2013 #64
sibelian Dec 2013 #66
loli phabay Dec 2013 #68
sibelian Dec 2013 #78
loli phabay Dec 2013 #86
woo me with science Dec 2013 #8
sibelian Dec 2013 #32
Kurovski Dec 2013 #9
sibelian Dec 2013 #39
WilliamPitt Dec 2013 #10
sibelian Dec 2013 #19
WilliamPitt Dec 2013 #40
progressoid Dec 2013 #11
sibelian Dec 2013 #18
silvershadow Dec 2013 #12
okaawhatever Dec 2013 #49
BooBrown Dec 2013 #13
sibelian Dec 2013 #41
grantcart Dec 2013 #14
Hissyspit Dec 2013 #23
grantcart Dec 2013 #43
Hissyspit Dec 2013 #46
passiveporcupine Dec 2013 #15
sibelian Dec 2013 #42
we can do it Dec 2013 #16
sibelian Dec 2013 #53
libodem Dec 2013 #17
sibelian Dec 2013 #55
Behind the Aegis Dec 2013 #20
sibelian Dec 2013 #24
Behind the Aegis Dec 2013 #58
sibelian Dec 2013 #65
DemocraticWing Dec 2013 #21
sibelian Dec 2013 #25
countryjake Dec 2013 #22
sibelian Dec 2013 #92
mercuryblues Dec 2013 #33
sibelian Dec 2013 #59
mercuryblues Dec 2013 #69
sibelian Dec 2013 #75
mercuryblues Dec 2013 #80
sibelian Dec 2013 #83
Puzzledtraveller Dec 2013 #34
sibelian Dec 2013 #63
Katashi_itto Dec 2013 #35
sibelian Dec 2013 #67
lisby Dec 2013 #44
sibelian Dec 2013 #84
Jim Lane Dec 2013 #45
Vashta Nerada Dec 2013 #47
bigwillq Dec 2013 #73
BlueEye Dec 2013 #48
sibelian Dec 2013 #87
Fearless Dec 2013 #50
sibelian Dec 2013 #88
Fearless Dec 2013 #94
awoke_in_2003 Dec 2013 #52
sibelian Dec 2013 #89
Jamastiene Dec 2013 #56
sibelian Dec 2013 #90
burnsei sensei Dec 2013 #60
MADem Dec 2013 #61
idwiyo Dec 2013 #70
sibelian Dec 2013 #72
idwiyo Dec 2013 #76
Puglover Dec 2013 #71
sibelian Dec 2013 #91
Fawke Em Dec 2013 #74
loli phabay Dec 2013 #77
seattledo Dec 2013 #79
sibelian Dec 2013 #82
Agony Dec 2013 #95
seattledo Dec 2013 #97
sibelian Dec 2013 #101
uriel1972 Dec 2013 #99
TrogL Dec 2013 #93
vlyons Dec 2013 #96
uriel1972 Dec 2013 #98
sibelian Dec 2013 #103
imthevicar Dec 2013 #100
sibelian Dec 2013 #102
imthevicar Dec 2013 #106
Nine Dec 2013 #104
sibelian Dec 2013 #105
vaberella Dec 2013 #108
sibelian Dec 2013 #109
vaberella Dec 2013 #110
davidthegnome Dec 2013 #111
sibelian Dec 2013 #113
Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #112
Roarybeans Dec 2013 #114
Jesus Malverde Jan 2014 #115

Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:35 PM

1. .

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Response to Jesus Malverde (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 05:18 AM

28. ...

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:36 PM

2. The human experience is sometimes heartbreaking.

Sometimes I wonder why we have that "pursuit of happiness" clause. Clearly it is not a truthful characterization of our real culture or society.

That clause is a lofty ideal, but the word "happiness" seems to have been usurped to mean the acquisition of wealth.

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Response to Trillo (Reply #2)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 07:16 AM

29. Well...


I think the right to pursue sometimes makes people think they also have the right to have. Which isn't quite the same thing... You can organise things so it's easy but you can't really organise things so it's guaranteed to happen....

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:45 PM

3. Your post is so well written and makes so much sense and I am sorry some words and deeds live on...

Do know we do fight to make change. The fight never stops.


Tikki

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Response to Tikki (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 09:55 AM

36. Maybe one day it will be done.


I thought it might be in my lifetime... not any more.

Thank you.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:48 PM

4. I am sorry for the unrelenting hate dumped on you.

I can only offer that candidates that support lgbt causes will always have mine and my husband's support.

It's kind of pathetic, but my real life lgbt friends always have a shoulder to cry on, a hug and a safe haven in my home. I wish you lived next door, because I would march over and offer you the same. That won't make it all better and right, but knowing that one more person has your back may give you a little comfort.

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Response to HappyMe (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 07:18 AM

30. Thank you, Happy.







If there weren't people like you, none of us would ever have got anywhere.

x

s

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:52 PM

5. My dear Sibelian....

Just .

While only a minority of human beings may identify as LGTB, the reality is that you have a larger impact on the world, because you have many people who love you, and are willing to stand up for you. I am not gay, but people I love are, and I will fight for their civil right just as hard as I would fight for my own.

You matter. People may keep throwing rocks, but the waves they are making are simply spreading the love. Please note that the President of the United States deliberately picked some of the most respected athletes in the world to represent the United States at the Olympics, fully aware of their sexual orientation, and thumbing his nose at the intended disrespect.

Once people see they can be treated better in one place, it creates a possibility / hope / goal for others.

You live in interesting times. Future generations are already being impacted.

Thank you.

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Response to IdaBriggs (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 09:56 AM

37. Thank you Ida.


I didn't know about the President's influence on the Olympics picks. You've cheered me up.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:58 PM

6. Gays were and still ARE a persecuted minority.

I frankly think that the term loses its impact when it is applied indiscriminately, i.e. to a non-persecuted majority.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #6)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 09:57 AM

38. Hm?


Whaddya mean, jeff?

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Response to sibelian (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 01:52 PM

81. I think we all know what he means...

nt

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Response to YoungDemCA (Reply #81)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 02:04 PM

85. Um...


Well, I don't, which is why I asked him.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #6)

Sun Dec 22, 2013, 08:23 AM

107. So are Blacks even with a Black president. So are Hispanics, Muslims and so many others.

If you are the "other", ie not a WASP you are still discriminated against and that has not changed.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 02:04 PM

7. mentioning souttar, are you from strathclyde or an east coaster.

 

i think it was sometjing like ninety seven percent of strathclyde voted for keeping twenty eight, or some similarly high number.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #7)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 04:33 AM

26. I'm East Coast.


I think Strathclyde's maybe got a bit better, but those guys have the macho something fierce.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #26)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 04:50 AM

27. yup parts of the glasgow area are mental, hence the city motto. no mean city, kinda ironic

 

though edinburgh is no paradise either. hearts or hibs, i am for my sins a tim.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #27)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 07:24 AM

31. Well, I'm from Glasgow originally and it's got better...


It's nowhere near as shite as it used to be. They cleaned the buildings, got rid of a lot of the trash. The drugs are still bad, though.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #31)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 01:09 PM

51. what scheme you from

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #51)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 03:54 PM

54. Hah!


BEARSDEN!

Which is about as unlike a scheme as you can get. VERY middle class. Stepford Wives....

It's not often regarded as even being properly Glaswegian! Which, really, is fair.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #54)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 03:59 AM

57. lol, bearsden, almost as bad as milngavie

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #57)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 10:39 AM

62. Hnk! Could have been Kelvnside.


Or, now I'm on the East Coast, MORNINGSIDE.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #62)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 10:48 AM

64. omg, you millionaire you. lol. bet you even have someone to pre chew your highland toffee lol

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #64)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 10:56 AM

66. Dude, I can't say where I live in Edinburgh online, but let' just say you'd probably think


that my toffee-chewer employs his own japanese gardener

Not that I actually have any money, just a very nice, bf. I own nothing. Our house is Tiiiiiiiiiny. We're VERY lucky.

But, yeah. We live opposite landed gentry. Her dog killed one of our cats once. Nasty piece of work.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #66)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 11:01 AM

68. so most important question, tim or bear, or are you a jags man

 

or a wee bully.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #68)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 01:44 PM

78. ...







I'm a shit Scotsman, OK?!??!?

lol

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Response to sibelian (Reply #78)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 02:10 PM

86. lol, well bearsden and morning side probuably means you prefer the weird shaped balls

 

murrayfield mayby.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 02:22 PM

8. This is an outstanding post.


K&R

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 07:25 AM

32. Thank you.



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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 02:24 PM

9. K&R

Change is slow to come. I think you're still young enough to see much greater improvement as the old world fades away.

It's already changed so quickly. Like dominoes falling.

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Response to Kurovski (Reply #9)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 09:57 AM

39. I certainly hope so...


We'll see.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 02:29 PM

10. New Mexico just affirmed gay marriage as a right.

It is a long, long, long worm...but it is turning.

Thank you for this post. With your permission, I would like to share it on BuzzFlash.

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Response to WilliamPitt (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 02:40 AM

19. Please do, Will, and thank you.

Ahem,

I apologise for being snarky at you during the Boston bombing and I'm surprised I'm not on your ignore list...

cough, :contrition:

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Response to sibelian (Reply #19)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 10:02 AM

40. (((hug)))

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 03:03 PM

11. "resigned myself to the idea that this is probably how it will always be"

I hope not. I want to believe it's getting better. It seems to be with my children's generation at least.

But then there are the Ducks and Putins and Palins and and and and

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Response to progressoid (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 02:34 AM

18. I'm very displeased with Vladimir.


I actually have no idea what to make of him.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 03:12 PM

12. siblelian, a change is gonna come.

[link:|

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Response to silvershadow (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 12:09 PM

49. Exactly what I was thinking. nt

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 03:29 PM

13. You are not alone

I am not gay, but I was very lucky to be born into a progressive home. Hate speech was never tolerated. We were taught that good character was the only quality that mattered.

Even with all this love and support from his family, my brother never came out. The hate and cruelty he faced led him to commit suicide when he was 24 and living away from his family for the first time. We only knew afterward. At his funeral. This happened 33 years ago; and I will never forget.

I have never and will never vote for a candidate who does not support the idea that every citizen in this country -- no matter what they look like or how they behave -- has the full rights everyone else in this country has.

See, it doesn't matter how many LGBT vote. Their families vote, their friends vote. And they are not alone.

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Response to BooBrown (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 10:15 AM

41. I'm so sorry to hear that, Boo.


I don't really know what to say.

But for the grace of God, Fate, whatever you call it, there could have gone my brother and I, we're both gay. I had good friends when I left home, perhaps that made a difference. I won't deny that I thought I about leaving the world many times, and once I gave it a damned good go. I was lucky. A friend had some kind of weird premonition and decided she had to phone me. There's more to that story but I won't tell it here.

Thank you for reminding me that I'm not alone.... It can be difficult not to get caught up in yourself and second-guess everything and everyone, yourself more than anyone, if you're surrounded by people constantly telling you you're something you're not.

Be well.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 03:42 PM

14. Putin's reason for bringing out homophobia is for an easily identifiable reason.


They can't really say the commies are coming and they don't have Blacks and there are too many Muslims (Russia is on its way to be a majority Muslim country in a few years given the difference in birth rates).

Rule 1 in a dictatorship is that you can't actually impose order through direct action at the retail level. In order to achieve your goal you must have an "Us" versus the "Evil-Them" campaign to get the masses to go along and isolate the resistance.

Putin isn't really even camouflaging this and it is somewhat humorous to see that he is getting an assist in his human rights Potemkin Village charade by Glenn Greenwald.

I empathize with your pain without being able to understand all of it.

I would point out that the rate of change has picked up, especially in the West and in the US.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #14)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 03:59 AM

23. "getting an assist in his human rights Potemkin Village charade by Glenn Greenwald." What

are you talking about?

Here is Greenwald facetiously expressing disdain for Putin:

@ggreenwald: The NSA has had a really bad week, but finally found a powerful, influential voice to speak in defense of its mission http://t.co/UKWR08icGi

Here he is explaining his position on Snowden's asylum:

Greenwald concedes he gets “a little mean” when asked about his or Snowden’s feelings on Russia. “I’m well aware of the flaws in Russian society, just like I’m well aware of all the flaws in American society,” Greenwald says. “Thousands of people apply for and are given asylum in the U.S. every year, and nobody says, ‘Isn’t it so weird and ironic that people are applying for asylum in a country that has an ocean prison where people are put in cages without trial for 10 years, uses drones, or torture?’” he says, half annoyed. “The point of asylum is not to declare to the world what country you think is the pinnacle of civilization. The point of asylum is to find a country that’s both willing and able to protect you from political persecution.” Greenwald adds, “In no way is asylum an endorsement of a country’s politics, laws, or values. He didn’t choose to be there. He was trying to get transit to Latin America, and then the U.S. revoked his passport and threatened other countries out of offering Snowden safe passage.”

At the end of Greenwald’s trip to meet Snowden in Hong Kong, he was convinced that Snowden would be snatched up by the U.S. and held in custody without trial for years, much like whistleblower Chelsea Manning, whom Greenwald considers a hero. Manning’s three-year pre-trial incarceration and 35-year sentence proves, Greenwald says, that Snowden was right to find harbor anywhere he could. “The question shouldn’t be why is Snowden in Russia? The question should be why is America no longer safe for whistleblowers?”

You were making perfectly reasonable sense up until that sentence. And it wasn't even necessary for the point you were trying to make. It's not that that Greenwald is above criticism, it's that the criticism always seems to be ad Hominem-based and usually false.

I mean, if I'm missing something, let me know.

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Response to Hissyspit (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 11:14 AM

43. Do you understand what a Potemkin Village is?

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Response to grantcart (Reply #43)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 11:42 AM

46. Yeah.

So?

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 04:17 PM

15. I wish more people were gay

some of the sweetest and funniest people I've known have been gay. And cute...damn I always get crushes on gay guys. I've never had a gay family member, but some of my gay friends have been as loved as family. I think the world could use a lot more of you. Change is happening, but I do understand how "tired" you get fighting the same old battle every year of your life. And I'm so sorry that this country (and the world) cannot be taught to be progressive faster that is happening. I've never been discriminated against like minorities and gays are, so I can't say I understand how it feels, but I know it has to be awful...and draining and degrading. And I do understand being "tired" of the fight. I hope you have enough good friends to help you through the low spots...to keep your spirits up most of the time.

Just try to remember that there are a lot of people who love you (even if you don't know them personally) and are fighting for you, because you matter as much as anyone. And you deserve to live freely and without oppression. Everyone does.

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Response to passiveporcupine (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 10:54 AM

42. Thank you... and, yes. You get REALLY fed up of it.


I find myself thinking things like: "Couldn't you guys try of someone ELSE for a change? Can it be Hispanics next year? Or teenagers. You've got a thing for Millennials at the moment. Can they can be kind of like pedophiles too?"

I'm finding this thread very cathartic, actually. Thank you to you and everyone else.



If people like you weren't there I don't know what would we do.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 08:54 PM

16. I just turned 55, and though things still suck, they are much better.

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Response to we can do it (Reply #16)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 01:48 PM

53. Yes, they are.


A lot better.

Now I can be out at work when I change jobs (that's something that people don't think about - you're perpetually coming out) without much consequence. I can go to my boyfriend's parent's house for Christmas and he can come home to mine.

I just wonder sometimes when it will be *finished*.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 11:27 PM

17. Nice piece

Last edited Fri Dec 20, 2013, 01:18 AM - Edit history (1)

Very compelling. Thank you much.

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Response to libodem (Reply #17)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 03:58 PM

55. Thank YOU libodem.


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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 02:50 AM

20. A-FUCKING-MEN!

I would add: it gets TIRESOME, really fucking old, that every time a homophobe opens his or her mouth (usually "his"), we get the "somebody's a closet case." Hate to break it to people, some homophobes are just plain, old, ignorant fuck-headed BIGOTS!

Oh, and "homophobia" isn't limited to just beating us and saying shitty things about us, and more people need to realize it.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #20)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 04:14 AM

24. That one makes my blood boil.


I've never met a single gay person who ever told me that they used to be a homophobe.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #24)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 04:15 AM

58. Sadly, I have met a few.

But I blame a homophobic/heterosexist society. It makes me wonder how many people have killed themselves because they were gay, but never, ever admitted it to a single person. I also dislike "allies" who come out of the woodwork when homophobia surfaces, then make it all about their pet peeves (anti-religion, anti-Southern (or insert state), Snowden, Greenwald, etc.). Those examples are the real political footballs. Of course, there are also those who claim to care about GLBT issues, but in reality, they only use them to bash gay people or the ones who stalk gay people. For some, we are nothing more than a "convenience" and when we aren't, they are quick to remind us..."can't you wait until after the election?"

ETA: Oh...and the ones who think that being gay (or someone coming out) is about our sex life!! ARRRGH!!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #58)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 10:51 AM

65. The ones that piss the fuck off out of me are the people who treat as a kind of REBELLION.


I just have no idea what to say to them.

I want to take them through my whole life and say: "Look at THIS, look at THIS, look at THIS, does this look like some kind of natural rebel to you? Don't you think it looks a little more like that other way people end up outside society - being OUTCAST? Maybe it's unwise to confuse the two, hm?"

And the ones who think it's just a political movement.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 03:31 AM

21. "I've sort of resigned myself to the idea that this is probably how it will always be."

I hate to say it, but I think you're right. I know it's getting better, and I have some faith it will get even better since young people are very much in favor of gay rights. But 40% of Americans think it's morally wrong to be gay. This is beyond their feelings about policy, they just think deep down that gay people are bad. Not counting LGBT people and our families, this means that a huge portion (half?) of straight people have a very strong disapproval of homosexuality. There's just not enough of us to counteract this, and I think we may actually see the situation eventually get worse again.

I pray we see progress forever and ever, but I'm cynical and know we probably won't.

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Response to DemocraticWing (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 04:30 AM

25. I have no idea where it comes from.


Sometimes I just want to sit them down and say:

"OK.

So it's because I'm pedophile. Except I'm not, so it's not that. So it's because I;m into bestiality, except it's not, because I'm not. So it's because of AIDS, except I don't have AIDS, so it's not that either.

So, it's because if everybody else was gay there would be no more people, except that's stupid because no gay people suppose that there's anything wrong with heterosexuality and we're not a religion or political movement excepting in areas where we have to be in order to live any kind of ordinary life because the stupid legislation you people keep throwing at us. So it's because of butt-sex except it isn't, because YOU guys also have butt-sex and you don't care and loads of us don't bother with it. So it's against the teachings of the Lord except it isn't because the Bible doesn't barely mentions us and in many places where it does it's VERY unclear that it's actually us that it's talking about. So it's because we have an agenda and want to destroy marriage, except it's not, because wanting something that everyone else gets can IN NO WAY be supposed to be a denigration of that thing unless you're freakishly weird.

So what's you're ACTUAL beef with me?"

And yes, I think there will always be homophobia. It constantly thrashes about looking for new justifications for itself and reinvents them all the time. Whatever it is that makes them hate us, they don't know what it is. It's some deep twist inside them that they don't know how to get rid of and, I suspect, feel that they *can't* get rid of it without compromising their identity in some way.

Which is such a colossally fucked up piece of crap. Their identity has to be destroyed before they stop making things up about me?

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 03:49 AM

22. I do think there is hope...

and I say that because of a little story that I watched on our local news this evening. It was a simple demonstration of the love that a bunch of school kids feel for their principal.

I can't say that this might make you feel any better, as the fellow has lost his job, but the support that some young people in Catholic Schools all across Seattle have been giving him is quite uplifting. It does bode well for our future.

High school students protest resignation of gay vice principal

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Eastside-Catholic-students-protest-resignation-of-gay-official-236613461.html

I had to cry watching the video, but it is good.

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Response to countryjake (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 02:39 PM

92. Yes, that does make a difference.


But it seems these days for every student protest there's another Uganda...

:/

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 07:41 AM

33. as the

owner of a uterus, I know exactly how you feel. To have politicians say things like "some girls are easy to rape", Was it "rape, rape"?. If the woman gets pregnant from a rape and chooses to have an abortion, she is labeled a "baby killer", "whore". Rapist threaten to post videos and pictures on the internet if the woman reports her rape, and you have people who support rape porn as freedom of speech. So now a woman has a choice, do they report the rape and live in fear of a video being posted on the internet of the rape and people getting their jollies from the most traumatic experience of her life? or does she not report the rape and still live in fear of the same thing?

If a woman wants to use birth control, according to some she is a "slut" and should make porn for them to view. There is a vocal group out there who want to make birth control illegal. Forcing women who engage in sex with their partners to get pregnant and birth as many babies as they can. If a pregnancy goes horribly wrong, it is "God's will" and she should just die. If a woman has a miscarriage there are politicians that want her arrested for felony murder. It is absolutely horrifying that these type of people get cheered on, financially supported and voted into office. Laws that allow a doctor to lie about your medical condition, if they think you might have an abortion if you knew the truth. Because you know women are too stooped to know better. Laws that allow pharmacists to deny prescriptions if they morally object to it. Let the courts decide if a woman'
Women want equal pay? Some people are vocal that women are just to stupid to vote, you know because they get their period and are too "emotional" to make rational decisions.

If a woman chooses to be a single mother, she is the reason society is in decay. If she needs public assistance to help raise the child, they are leeches on society. they should clean toilets for their school lunch. That'll teach 'em for not keeping an "aspirin between their knees".

Last week a 14 year old girl was raped, murdered and her body found in a dumpster. The picture the paper used with the article had comments like: Wearing makeup, she should have expected the "wrong kind of attention" "why did the mother let her wear makeup?" "She looks like a prostitute" Everything but what kind of man would rape and kill a child? Not one comment about how they hope they find whoever did this and quick, so he can't do it again. Nope all the comments suggested that the girl and her mother brought this on by wearing makeup. fucking makeup.

So I get it. I get the anger because of something you can't change being used to wrongly stereotype how you should act. How politicians and some of the general public support legislating your future. How they throw up their hands and say because of who you are, we have to do this for your own good.

I get the despair because the more we think we have advanced towards equal rights, some asshole gets to vote against it. These things should not be put up for votes. These people should not be given a microphone to voice their opinion and be treated as if they are sane. They should be ridiculed, laughed at, and shamed off the air and out of office.

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Response to mercuryblues (Reply #33)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 04:59 AM

59. It's hideous.


I have no idea what to make of people's attitudes to rape these days, it's just MADNESS. It's gotten worse and worse. People have started reacting to it it twisted, bizarre ways.

I could post a long rant about what I think has gone wrong but most of it would be speculation...

I think it's a series of appalling misunderstandings and a fair amount of plain spite...

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Response to sibelian (Reply #59)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 11:04 AM

69. yeah.

It started going wrong when window screens were invented. Before screens, people had to keep the windows closed to keep the bugs out. So they spent a fair amount of time outside. They got to know their neighbors.

Seriously it is the rise in Fundy mentality.

An old joke.

I person gets to heaven and is told never to go past the big gigantic wall, don't even look over it. They are amazed by all the beauty and happiness they see. One day he asks ST Peter what is on the other side of that wall. He replies.....That is where we send the fundamentalists. They are only happy if they believe they are the only ones who make it to heaven.

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Response to mercuryblues (Reply #69)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 12:40 PM

75. Some of the Christian attitudes towards womanhood are just inexplicably fucked up.


And it's not just Christianity. I CANNOT get my head around burkas. It's like the men are openly saying they have absolutely no real control over their passions at all and this is a mark of their civilised conduct. It's a total fuck-up.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #75)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 01:51 PM

80. just AS

Most of the vitriol towards women, gays and the poor are coming from the same group of people. People are fighting their own battles against the hate machine. The more ground haters lose the louder they scream. I find it troubling that there are some progressives that refuse to understand that what hurts one, hurts us all.

I believe we are near a tipping point. There is a bigger picture. The anti's are taking their masks off, so to speak. They will never be pleased, no one will ever be pure enough for them. The last one standing syndrome.

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Response to mercuryblues (Reply #80)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 01:57 PM

83. I agree.


I can be hard to navigate the labyrinth... but.... we have no choice...

I hope you're right about your tipping point...

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 08:06 AM

34. Excellent post

I have also seen the same observations you make, heck Hollywood and the entertainment complex still stereotypes gays and we applaud it as if there has been some progress made there.

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #34)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 10:42 AM

63. Thanks, PT.


Hollywood's a mess. It can really only deal in monomythic types. There are independent films with better understanding but they're no use in altering public perceptions as they haven't the market penetration.

Most of us know that the only we to be seen for what we are is to be out and NOT what people expect us to be but only and honestly ourselves.

It doesn't always work.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 08:09 AM

35. Well written post

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #35)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 11:00 AM

67. Thank you Katashi.


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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 11:24 AM

44. You are 100 percent on the money with your post.

All we can do is whatever we can to keep the tide turning. All my best to you, friend.

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Response to lisby (Reply #44)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 02:02 PM

84. And to you, lisby...


(hug)

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 11:37 AM

45. I believe that we will someday elect an openly gay or lesbian President.

I don't know UK politics all that well but I'm guessing that the dynamics are the same and that there will someday be an openly gay or lesbian Prime Minister.

You beat us to the punch with putting a woman in charge but we got there first with a racial minority. Now for sexual orientation -- ready, set, go!

The point is to respond to your comment, "I'm afraid I've sort of resigned myself to the idea that this is probably how it will always be." Because I'm straight (and a white male), I haven't had to put up with any of the BS you detail. I don't have that personal perspective. As an observer, though, I see prejudice definitely weakening. It would once have been almost inconceivable that a woman would be considered a serious possibility for the Presidency, let alone that a black would actually be elected. Same-sex marriage wasn't even being brought up as an issue a few decades ago, and now scores of millions of Americans live in states with marriage equality.

I leave with you with an excerpt from the Wikipedia biography of Theodore Parker, one of the leading opponents of slavery in the 1850s.


Parker predicted the inevitable success of the abolitionist cause this way:

"I do not pretend to understand the moral universe; the arc is a long one, my eye reaches but little ways; I cannot calculate the curve and complete the figure by the experience of sight; I can divine it by conscience. And from what I see I am sure it bends towards justice."

A century later, Martin Luther King, Jr. paraphrased these words to great effect in his famous "Where Do We Go From Here?" speech of August 1967 to the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, when he said, "The arc of the Moral Universe Is long, but It bends toward Justice".

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 11:49 AM

47. The pope hates us LGBTers, yet many here just love the guy.

 



I agree with everything you've said in your rant.

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Response to Vashta Nerada (Reply #47)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 11:53 AM

73. Sickening, isn't it?

F THE POPE

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 11:51 AM

48. Thank you so much for posting this, amazingly well written.

I thought this paragraph summed up the problem beautifully:

"There are never really going to be enough gay people in the world to make our votes count enough for any of the people who can change anything. We are too small in number. They don't really need to take us into account for any more reason than a kind of political vanity project. I don;t think the Right;s homophobia is as clearly expressed near the top of its rickety pyramid anywhere near as strongly as it is in the foundations."

I've never heard it put better. Gay people alone do not have the power in a democratic system to protect themselves from a large fraction of the country that discriminates against them. As such, progressives, gay and straight alike, must unite to fight for Gay Rights. It is a civil rights issue, plain and simple. Progressives must always remember the plight of LGBT people, because the other side would let things devolve to where they are in Russia if they had the opportunity.

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Response to BlueEye (Reply #48)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 02:11 PM

87. We would have NOTHING were it not for the understanding of straight people.


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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 12:32 PM

50. There is a lot of good that has happened in the last 43 years

As well. Don't forget that.

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Response to Fearless (Reply #50)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 02:21 PM

88. Yes, that's true.


But I get fed up of the whole "mustn't grumble" thing sometimes, what with being British an all...

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Response to sibelian (Reply #88)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 05:21 PM

94. Everyone has the right to speak their minds on issues that matter to them.

I'm not as familiar with the LGBT fight on the ground in the UK. Regardless, never forget that the fight isn't hopeless. We've come very far and for as much further as we have to go to achieve full equality the train is already hurdling in that direction with little chance of being derailed. We will win the moment everyone knows and cares about someone who is LGBT. In the age of social media, that is coming faster than ever before. Those against us will howl and whine louder and louder as they are increasingly marginalized, but we can't let them get to us.

While writing, it brought this to mind, which I think sums up any progressive fight pretty well...

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 01:40 PM

52. it will get better

It will probably take a while but it will. Hell, now 17 states embrace marriage equality. Never thought that would happen. Please know that there are straights like me out their who have your back

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 02:22 PM

89. :)


Thank you.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Fri Dec 20, 2013, 04:27 PM

56. A most excellent rant.

Don't forget we've been blamed for all the bad weather and lost elections too. Still, you covered a lot of it. There is just so much of it...and by it, I mean the bullshit we have to endure and pretend we agree with all the damn time. What's worse, is some heterosexuals even here on DU feel the need to tell US what should and should not be not offensive to US. That's just takes the fucking bullshit cake.

K&R&

And P.S. I'm 43 too. It just dawned on me that I have less years in front of me than I have put behind me. I wonder if the future will all be spent putting up with more bullshit while we are used as excuses and blamed for all the bad in the world. Why do I wonder? It will stay just as fucking bad no matter what, no ifs, ands, or buts, about it.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #56)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 02:35 PM

90. Hey J





Let's just pretend to believe that the best is yet to come...



lol

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 08:19 AM

60. This open pretension amounts to a massive social lie.

Quote:
It's okay to pretend openly that gays are secret pederasts among certain demographics, so you can use that to legitimise wider, more subtle forms of bigotry.
end

The pederast and catamite is not homosexuality.
The only common denominator is same-sex attraction, but one, psychologically and morally, is not equivalent to the other.
I'm sick and tired of people saying that all same-sexual attractions are created alike.
They are not, just as not all people are created alike.
They are created equal
Sameness is not equality.
End of story.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 08:41 AM

61. Apparently the Russians have always had a bigoted streak in this regard, and Pootie is exploiting it

for his own purposes.

Why he is stoking the fires of hatred now, I've no idea...perhaps he thinks that gay athletes will be intimidated and fearful of arrest or harassment, and that will give Russian athletes a leg up at the Olympics?

As for that Duck Dynasty guy, I see the nasty hand of the Libertarian-Rand Paulian crowd in the enthusiasm for that hate-filled cretin. There are some things--like bigoted, insulting speech--that aren't "OK." They may be constitutionally protected, but they DESERVE some push-back from people who think that kind of commentary just sucks and is morally wrong.

The people supporting this Duck Dickhead aren't doing it because they value free speech, they're doing it because they want to be "allowed" to say nasty, hateful things about people and not suffer any consequences for their shitty behavior. Anyone who says otherwise is parsing to the point of absurdity. There's just no excuse for that jerk's comments.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 11:11 AM

70. Hugs. I wish everyone would just mind their own fucking business, instead of obsessing

about who other people's love lives.

And one more request: it would friggin nice to have zero tolerance policy at least here on DU towards homophobia and enabling homophobia.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #70)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 11:50 AM

72. I think there are reasons why there's no zero tolerance policy


And I won't say why here...

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Response to sibelian (Reply #72)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 12:57 PM

76. GMTA. Hugs.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 11:18 AM

71. I'm sick of it too.

But have a very thick skin. But Lord it gets tiresome.

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Response to Puglover (Reply #71)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 02:37 PM

91. +1000...


:/

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 11:57 AM

74. Not excusing this, but I really do want you to know that

teens today do NOT mean "homosexual" when they say, "gay."

My son and his friends are very tolerant. They think that homosexuals can't marry is idiotic. They can't imagine why anyone would be bullied for being homosexual and just, in general, don't think of homosexuals as any different than their heterosexual friends. BUT, they do use the term, "gay" - to describe something stupid.

I once asked him why they use that term and did he really hate gay people. He said, "No, Mom. "Gay" doesn't mean that anymore. Well, not for us. It just means 'stupid'." He went onto say that, while the term, "gay" is still sometimes used to describe homosexual people, the term isn't used as much anymore because most people just don't care what your sexuality is and, therefore, don't describe others solely based on that ONE descriptor. For example, someone who is annoying AND gay is simply, "annoying" and someone who is cool AND gay is simply, "cool."

I realize, given your age (which is exactly mine if you use 43 to describe your whole life) that you have endured the good, bad and ugly use of the term, "gay," and I am in NO WAY minimizing your struggle.

I really did just want to let you know that a lot of teens, these days, don't see it as an insult because they don't really use it to describe people anymore. It's used exclusively in the South Park vernacular - so maybe that bit of irony has come full circle.

Either way:

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Response to Fawke Em (Reply #74)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 01:05 PM

77. good point, words evolve over time, for some certain words may be hurtful but for others its

 

self identifiers and for others the words mean different things. a classic i have seen is the word fanny, to a brit it means something totally different than to an american, where the op is from calling someone it would get you stabbed whereas in the us just a rebuttal.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 01:49 PM

79. How about both of you groups leave us alone

 

Most people don't make a large issue of this one way or the other. We just don't like constantly having hetro- or homo- constantly thrown in our faces. I hate how my hetrosexual friends assume I'm gay because I've never been on a date with a male, and my gay friends are rude to me because they assume I'm hetro since I don't date women. Us normal people are getting attacked from both sides.

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Response to seattledo (Reply #79)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 01:56 PM

82. I'm not responsible for the actions of your friends.


THEY are.

It sounds to me like you might need to find some new friends.

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Response to seattledo (Reply #79)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 06:00 PM

95. Exactly! those gay people should sit down and shut up!

because that has worked out so well...

"us normal people"? that's fucked up.
.
.
.
Dear sibelian,

Agony

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Response to Agony (Reply #95)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 09:33 PM

97. I said both groups.

 

Don't lie about what I said.

I don't define myself by my sexuality. People are so much more than just sexual urges. Both groups are trying to reduce us to animals.

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Response to seattledo (Reply #97)

Sun Dec 22, 2013, 03:51 AM

101. "I don't define myself by my sexuality"


Neither do I.

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Response to seattledo (Reply #79)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 10:59 PM

99. You "Normal" people... Hmmm...

What a privilege to be normal. You don't know how lucky you are.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 04:14 PM

93. OK, well you can lay the blame squarely at the feet of fundamentalist religion

Last edited Sat Dec 21, 2013, 05:19 PM - Edit history (1)

Scratch a homophobe, a racist, a misanthrope and underneath you'll find simplistic, black and white thinking. Left to their own resources, they'd probably be willing to go along with something straightforward like "born that way". Unfortunately fundamentalist religious leaders want their money (Prosperity Gospel, anybody) so they need to stir up the pot and need a demon (literally).
We're a relatively easy target to spot. The verses are already there in the Bible if taken out of context, so they're good to go.

I had the same sort of bullies growing up (unlikely we went to the same school) and come big events, they'd be the ones running around clutching Bibles. If they got in trouble with the police, next thing you know their Pastor would be on scene and everything would magically go away because they and the police were all in the same church.

The latest shot in the war is Uganda making homosexuality punishable by life in prison. Do your research to see who's behind that. US fundies. Same with Russia's laws. It's the same people.

And because of society's innate willing to trust religious people (which has taken a bit of beating over the last few years), they get away with out, over and over.

As if the KJV (or any other translation) Bible wasn't enough, they've decided to rewrite it in their own interpretation, abandoning all effort at scholarship. http://www.alternet.org/belief/right-wing-group-seeks-help-rewriting-bible-because-its-not-conservative-enough

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 08:40 PM

96. the reasons Putin wages war on gays is

a) he's a homophobe

b) more importantly, he knows that demonizing a small group is a policy that everyone will focus on and talk about, rather than his disasterous economy and suppression of real political opposition and democratic reforms.

The Russians (both commies and Tsarists) have a long long history of going after Jews, Kulaks, intellectuals, Menshaviks, solcialists, etc.

I like your bit about genderized English nouns.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sat Dec 21, 2013, 10:56 PM

98. I know how you feel about being abused by your peers during schooling...

I refuse to call it bullying, that makes it sound almost innocent. I too was demonised and ostracised for being "gay" although I wasn't, I have what is now known as gender dysphoria (ie: woman in a man's body). This was during the time that HIV/AIDS made its appearance.

"Gay" is being used so casually as an insult, it makes for a venomous atmosphere. I get the feeling that people used to say, "Does this shirt look Jewish?" before that became publicly forbidden. It makes me fear about where that will lead.

It has started in places with being suspected of being LGBT is a capital offence. Russia looks like Germany in the 1920's or 30's with open discrimination against a small segment of the population. Will it go further? I fear it will.

Changing times and economic distress call for scapegoats and LGBT people look like they have been called "IT" this time in a big way. Come to think of it things are going back to where they were not so long ago after a brief time in the sun, comparatively speaking.

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Response to uriel1972 (Reply #98)

Sun Dec 22, 2013, 06:43 AM

103. Yes. Russia is doing very badly and there are few obvious solutions.


So in order to feel good they need some simple problem to which there is some simple solution.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2013, 03:38 AM

100. sibelian

It could be worse, Thousands like myself could have refused to grow the fuck up and accept the existence of and right to Happiness you have.

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Response to imthevicar (Reply #100)

Sun Dec 22, 2013, 04:38 AM

102. I don't care about happiness any more.


Happiness is ephemeral. Happiness is a chimera, it comes and goes with the wind. Be grateful when it comes, get back to work when it's gone.

I want the TRUTH.

I want people to stop telling lies about me and the world they live in as way of making THEM feel good about THEMSELVES.

Having said that, you're absolutely right, there's no way we would have come as far as we have without ordinary people. Thank you.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #102)

Sun Dec 22, 2013, 08:18 AM

106. No Need to thank me,

I needed to Grow up, be comfortable with who I am, see the threat I had programmed as a child didn't exist, and put it behind me.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2013, 06:57 AM

104. I'm sorry for all you've been through.

I'm not gay but my personal impression is that things have never been better for gay rights in this country (I realize we're not the whole world). I really feel like the U.S. is at a turning point. Public opinion is so different now than it was a decade or two ago. Marriage equality is passing in state after state. Of course it's not something I've spent the last 43 years waiting for, so it's easy for me to say, "another five to ten years and then we'll see some real progress!" But I think if you take an objective and long-range look at things, there's a lot of reason for optimism.

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Response to Nine (Reply #104)

Sun Dec 22, 2013, 07:02 AM

105. Well, I livein the UK where things are possibly a far bit better than the US.


It's barely even an issue any more. The thing that drives me insane is people REINVENTING the legitimacy of bigotry, the way it replenishes itself over and over again.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Sun Dec 22, 2013, 08:30 AM

108. My heart bleeds for what you went through. But Gays are not the only target.

Aside from those in the LGBTQ community, Blacks have been said to be Gay. I think it needs to be realized America is a nation built on racism, bigotry, and prejudice and that many of the attacks and abuse is not done in isolation but done to any one who is deemed the "other." One of my friends Zxavier faces prejudice within both his communities, he is a gay Black male. Blacks still have the machismo thing and apparently their are weird stigmas he's faces in an interracial couple within the gay community. This is aside from the stupidity of our nation that is slowly opening their ears.

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Response to vaberella (Reply #108)

Sun Dec 22, 2013, 09:37 AM

109. Targets of bigotry often assume that they are somehow immune from being bigots.


Nothing could be further from the truth.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #109)

Sun Dec 22, 2013, 03:41 PM

110. I couldn't agree more.

Everyone needs a wake up call.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2013, 11:28 AM

111. Anything they can use as a political football...

They will - regardless of whether or not it's offensive, despicable, and/or ignorant. The game is about approval ratings, the status of polls, the overall mind-state of the American public.

Remember candidate Obama who wasn't ready to say he approved of gay marriage? Remember when he changed his mind? Somehow, I doubt this is an honest expression of his personal views or even a demand for greater freedom or equality. It has more to do with the overall, prevailing notions of the time - and the politician's desire to be likeable for the sake of higher vote counts.

People will use anything and everything they can to support political careers and to make money. It is the nature of the beast.

Were it up to me, everyone would be welcome to love and marry whom ever they pleased. We're supposed to be the land of the free. Were it up to me, this controversy would be banished to the past, and we could all move forward with the knowledge that we are all human beings. Sadly, you have far too many twits quoting (and mis-representing) ancient scriptures. Sadly, there are too many absolute morons who think that "If you is gay, you must have the aids! Run!"

Freaks? The true freaks are those who, in complete ignorance, with an utter lack of knowledge of what they speak, try to tell us what is sinful and what is permissible. The true freaks are the idiots who do not understand that ALL love is sacred.

On behalf of humanity, I am deeply sorry for what you have had to suffer through. It is my hope that the forces of education and enlightenment will prevail. In time, I feel that they must. We have come a long way from the backwards ignorance of our ancestors, but we have much further to go, still.

Time and time again the poison of hatred and bigotry has been - and will continue to be cured by the antidote of knowledge, wisdom, and love. Small compensation, when there is so much hatred out there. Yet it will fade in time. Future generations will see two men or two women loving each other as what it is. Beautiful. Like all love.

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Response to davidthegnome (Reply #111)

Tue Dec 24, 2013, 11:31 AM

113. "Remember when he changed his mind?"


YES, SIR. I remember it VERY well, and I remember thinking: "FIIIIIGURES." Followed by "He might mean it." Followed by "Yeah, right." Followed by "He might mean it and STILL be in a position where I have to be used as a political football because that's what everyone ELSE on Capitol Hill does." Followed by "FIIIIIGURES."


"On behalf of humanity, I am deeply sorry for what you have had to suffer through. It is my hope that the forces of education and enlightenment will prevail. In time, I feel that they must. We have come a long way from the backwards ignorance of our ancestors, but we have much further to go, still."

YOU don't have to apologise, and...we will see.

We're not female, substantial chunks of us are white, some of us are rich, many of us have proper jobs. Some of us even have careers. Our situation is fairly clear-cut, unlike the forms of bigotry directed against women, black people and the poor... People just openly make up stupid weird shit about us and ignore us completely when we say: "..... actually, It's Not Like That." It's not like the forms where people pretend not to be bigoted but are anyway. With us they just come right out with it.

I don't know what will happen.

There aren't enough of us.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Mon Dec 23, 2013, 12:30 PM

112. Bumping for Utah.

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Response to sibelian (Original post)

Tue Dec 24, 2013, 11:39 AM

114. This lesbian agrees with you.

Been on this earth 66 years. The white noise of abuse never really goes away and probably never will. I've lived a long time, knew at five years old that there was something different about me. Didn't quite have the insight in those dark old days to figure it out until middle school and being called queer. One trip to the library was enought to convince me to keep my secret to myself. Finally came out in 1978 and joined the gay liberation movement. Seen many changes, enought to give hope, but as you say, not in my lifetime. Worse is seeing older LGBT become isolated and alone again. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

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