I want to talk frankly about the south hate here

[backwoodsbob]

and let people understand what pisses people like me off about DU and other left leaning web sites.

I live in Virginia..I am about to move to SC..and it is ASSUMED by many here that I am some racist uneducated POS simply because of where I live.I'm tired of it.I don't judge individuals based on what state they live in and I'm sick of people judging EVERY southerner based on some BULLSHIT ELITIST attitude about the south

I am PRO CHOICE..I am about as PRO gay rights as it gets on this site.I AM the one who has fed THOUSANDS of abandoned animals over the years at our local non kill shelter.I have literally spent thousands taking care of our local critters who were abandoned...in many cases by people outside our area who think there little kitty or dog will be fine if dropped off where it is warm(hint...they starve to death).I AM FOR more regulation of the scumbags who are destroying our environment.I am FOR more oversight and less loopholes for companies like exxon and the megabanks

I am possibly the most animal rights activist on this sight..I'm not PETA..I dont Kill animals..I save them.I built a kennel system to take animals the system had scheduled for euthanasia...I had people at the shelter send me animals who could be saved even though they were scheduled for euthanasia.I have had up to 20 animals at a time here that would otherwise have been euthanized.I have found a home for or adopted myself every animal who ever entered my property.

I'm not a bad guy

I AM THE SOUTH...just like I am the north or the Midwest..or Cali or anywhere else.We aren't the enemy.

If people would get off the backs of the good ones in the south and work to turn the mods/indies we can take the south from them.

Lets get off the south hate and work to make the south part of OUR country.There are more of us like me than many here give us credit for.HELP US

[Skittles]

1. I'm a liberal in Texas

but I understand perfectly well how Texas gets the reputation it has

[backwoodsbob]

4. so EVERY person in the south is guilty?

[Warpy]

13. Nice way to derail a conversation.

[Skittles]

15. I see the problem you have with reading comprehension

[FarLeftFist]

103. I think ppl here are talking about southern GOP voters.

[tblue37]

159. I don't recall anyone on DU ever claiming that "everyone" in the South is

guilty of the prejudice and ignorance that are, nevertheless, more openly on display by large majorities in certain parts of this country than in other parts of this country.

I am a far-left liberal in Kansas, but I am not personally offended by people who mention that Brownback and his Christian Taliban supporters are more common and more influential here than liberals like me, even though liberals like me are in the a majority in the college town I live in.

I was born in Biloxi, Mississippi, and raised mostly in the deep South, until I was almost 13 years old. Yet I do not assume that comments about racism, Religionist extremism, and Republican know-nothingness in the South are directed at me. I know perfectly well that they are directed at those who have such attitudes, because as of this moment in time, those kinds of people are more representative of the attitudes and behavior that characterize the South and those who have more power and influence in the South are as wrongheaded as the critics say they are.

I see no reason to feel personally insulted about criticsm of people who deserve criticism, even if they happen to live in the same part of the country that I live in. And if their numbers and their power in that part of the country clearly outweigh the numbers and power of those who think as I do, then it seems logical to direct such critiques geographically, too.

Yes there are badly behaved, dishonest RW fundie people in my city, but we liberals outnumber them. Similarly, there are liberals in other parts of Kansas, but in most of those other parts of Kansas, those liberals have relatively little influence, because their voices and their public presence are obscured by the numbers, the power, and the public behaviors of the RW fundies.

Why do people look for reasons to be insulted by comments that are not directed at them?

[treestar]

186. Thank you - good post

We all know there are liberals in the South, Texas, the West and even in the reddest of red states, but a red state is still red and a known conservative area, while it will have some liberals, contributes to the overall conservative power in the country, especially in the EC or Senate where things are done by state.

[AtheistCrusader]

165. Nice strawman.

Of course, the person you are responding to said no such thing.

[TBF]

168. Of course not -

but as a socialist in Texas I can tell you I do not discuss my political opinions with folks in this state unless I am pretty sure I'm amongst folks who are at the very least moderates. The soccer moms around here pack handguns, and I'm in a pretty nice suburban area.

[w8liftinglady]

18. I remember working the primaries in 2010

In Ellis County... Joe Barton's district.They literally had to beg us to work the polls at a certain precinct,because they were overwhelmingly Republican and a known racist hotbed.

So,three of us from other parts of the county volunteered to man the Democratic Table.We received 20 votes that day.They received 5000.I sat there and made healing beads the whole day to pass the time...and gave some to the Republican precinct reps across the room. We smiled and behaved sugar-sweet. It destroyed their impression of the heathen Democratic Party.

[Skittles]

32. you have guts, w8liftinglady!

you are my kind of gal!

[iemitsu]

102. she wasn't scared because

she lifts weights.
my kind of gal too.

[Skittles]

184. I lift weights!

at home, using Cathe Friedrich DVDs

[arely staircase]

61. i can beat that - i'm in east texas, and i see where the reputation comes from too. however

broadbrush stereotyping any region (meaning the people in it) of any part of the country or world is simply wrong. i saw a poll on du today that said almost half the republicans in either mississippi or alabama oppose interacial marriage. stunning to me in this day and age. i am the product of such dreadful miscegination and my partner is of a diferrent race than either of my parents. but i would still not stereotype alabamans as being racists or be afraid to go there. i'm sure the level of racism there is probably about on par with east texas, and though i hear more racial comments here than when i lived in austin - we have never been hassled.

also, i got to spend some time in new jersey few years ago. i saw racism up there on a level that stunned me, all the way down to racism between different white european ethnic groups. i have heard italian americans unload on polish americans in ways i never imagined. white on white racism was not something i ever knew existed - and of plenty of both those group of whites were as racist against blacks as any rebel flag flying yahoo down here.

[w8liftinglady]

63. One of my co-workers lives in Tyler...drives to Dallas to work.

yes- we DO live in all parts of Texas.my workplace is largely Democratically-leaning...and we are a "Christian" hospital (that shall remain nameless)

[arely staircase]

71. tyler to dallas daily is a pretty good hike.

we have been there (tyler) to see the azaleas. there is also a cool winery outside of tyler (with an awesome restaurant) but i can't remember its name.

[w8liftinglady]

72. Tara Winery,maybe?

And,yes, my co-worker stays weekends here

[arely staircase]

78. nope. wow, more than one east texas winery, who'd of thunk it lol

here you go, i found it:

http://www.kiepersol.com/winery/winery.shtml

[w8liftinglady]

83. LOL... My partner and I used to go to Tara's

Like I said...Gun Barrel City IS Gay Mecca

http://www.tarawinery.com/

[arely staircase]

89. gun barrel city is only my second favorite texas town name

"cut n shoot" being my all time favorite. not sure its a mecca but we had no problems when we bought gas and two "cut n shoot" t-shirts.

[AnotherDreamWeaver]

113. A moment I've not forgotten in Tyler Texas

Was when I saw headlights speeding toward me in the rearview mirror, and my hugging the right shoulder of the road so they could pass, then having the red lights on and having to stop in the road because there were no pullouts, and law enforcements comes up to my window and exclaims, "You stepped on that yellow line, boy. You know I can throw you in jail for steppin' on that yellow line, boy?"

He didn't, but it wasn't one of my best days...

My partner and I had pulled into a KOA campground to spend the night. We were traveling cross country and didn't want to pay for a motel. We were in a volvo station wagon and this rent a cop comes around with a yellow beacon on his car flashing a flashlight at us. I get out and ask him what's up and he says he is just confirming our license plate number. I ask if he is going to be driving around with that flashing light all night and he says every fifteen minutes. I realize we would never get any sleep there, so we pack up and ask for our money back. Ten minutes down the road law enforcement shows up.

Town of Roses I've heard.

[bvar22]

172. My Populist, FDR, pro-LABOR roots are from that area.

I have family from Tyler to Denton.
Bill Moyers is also from that area.

[Skittles]

69. I said I UNDERSTAND it

I never said I AGREED with it

[arely staircase]

74. oh, i wasn't accusing you of or chatising you for anything

i hope you didn't take it that way, i have been feeling quite misunderstood lately, after my thread on the murderer in afghanistan. and notice i said i understood it too. slavery and jim crowe get the south tagged as the racist part of the country - and i understand that. but i don't agree with it either because as i posted, i saw just as much racism in new jersey as i see down here.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

114. You're not making that up.

I live in New Jersey and have heard the racism you speak of many times.

[LibDemAlways]

121. I can attest to the ethnic racism among whites.

When my dad was growing up in rural Pennsylvania 99% of the people in his small town were Catholic. But, they had separate churches - one for Italians, one for Poles, one for the Irish. It was important that everyone "stick to their own." When a cousin announced her engagement to a man from a different ethnic background, my grandmother was aghast. When another cousin married a Jewish man, she practically had a heart attack.

At least in my family it seemed to be more of a generational thing. My parents, the WWII generation, inherited a lot of that racism from their immigrant parents and, honestly, they weren't deliberately malicious about it. It was a fact of life. Fortunately, I don't see it much in my generation and not at all in my daughter's.

[life long demo]

182. I grew up in a small town in Montgomery Co., PA and it was the same way

Irish, Pole, Italian, Slovack all had their own neighborhoods, churches, clubs, all first generation Americans. But their kids (myself included) all played together. I remember bringing home an Italian (descent) boy that I had a date with, my mother was pleasant. But when I got home from the date, did I hear it about dating "your own kind". Those first generation Americans are all gone. The town is now a mixture of colors and culture. All living together and its a pleasant town. I go back frequently just to drive down the streets and remember when I was young and didn't know better. I'm 69 and that was long ago.

[JDPriestly]

194. You should have heard what Bavarians (Southern Germans) used to

say about Northern Germans and vice versa. It is human nature. Maybe it stems from a sort of sibling rivalry on a national level.

We have much less racism here in California. Racial intermarriage is commonplace, at least in Los Angeles. We live in mixed communities. In fact, after visiting a Mexican restaurant in my neighborhood today, I explained to a guest that we love the ethnic and cultural diversity.

People pay a lot of money to see the beauty of cultural events, customs and lifestyles that are a part of our everyday experience in LA.

So, really, I don't think that we have the prejudice and backwardness in Los Angeles that people have in a lot of other parts of the country. The neighbors within three houses of me on either side are of four different races as far as I can tell. Vive la difference is my view.

[roguevalley]

101. I live in Alaska. Sounds the same.

[Rex]

128. Dick Army, Phil Gramm, Tom Delay

Rick Perry, truck nuts and everything is FUCKING BIGGER IN TEXAS!!! God blessed Texas with His own hand and Ford is the best in Texas. Did I say truck nuts...okay, as long as I mentioned TRUCK NUTS. Lets see, what else hmmm...okay that is it. Besides that stuff...I kinda like my state.


Oh wait...what was the question again?

[southernyankeebelle]

131. I get it, I really get it. I am a social democratic living in the south. We all aren't lemmings.

BUT I want to remind the poster that it works both ways. The Sarah Palins, and Newtie Fruitys of the republican party paint places like NY and LA as "unamerican" and "not the right kind of american". Last time I checked both NY and CA are parts of the united states and also pay alot more money to the government coffers then the red states. So why is it ok that they put down people in big cities? Who by the way are just as patriotic and southerns. If your going to get upset with that then be equal and stand up for the east coast and west coast states.

[lark]

144. I'm a as far left as you can get without falling off the edge liberal & am from No. FL

There are lots of teabagger crazy evangelicals here, and we have the much hated Rick Scott.
Of course, WI & OH aren't southern and their governors are not much different than mine, much as I'd love for him to just poof away.

I do agree a little bit with the OP though. When I moved to CA 40 years ago, I got treated as less than a person by some people just because I had a bit of a southern accent. After hearing about the 100th person make remarks about "ignorant southerners", I went about deliberately changing my accent & eliminating the colorful southern sayings I'd learned from my TX & FL parents. I couldn't get thru the left coast superiority complex until I no longer sounded like a southerner. Funny & sad, once I quit saying "yall", I never once heard another stupid southerners comment.

Bottom line, while the dominant culture in parts of the south does need badly to change, you should always judge INDVIDUALS on their own merits.

[lpbk2713]

2. Good rant Bob.

Some people take comfort in pigeon holing other people. It's the path of least resistance.
Juust let it go as human nature.

[blue neen]

3. You are quite right.

We live in Pennsylvania, and you wouldn't believe some of the bigotry and hatefulness that surrounds us.

They just held a KKK rally in our county two weekends ago. It's disgusting.

[doc03]

10. I live in Ohio and we have people here just as bad or worse than some of

the stereotypes we have of the south. There is barely a day I don't hear one of my neighbors use the "n" word.
I think we have the market cornered on narrow minded bigoted morons.

[arely staircase]

105. wow, i only hear the n word every couple of weeks

i actually feel blessed to have heard it once back in 2008, simply because it was so ironic that i literally laugh out loud to this day when i recall it. now, i am used to this type sentence construct "now i'm no racist but (fill in racist comment here)" but this one took the grand prize. in fact if there were a nobel prize for unintentional irony, i would nominate this guy in a heartbeat. here it is:

"now i ain't no racist, but i just can't vote for no n*&%%#$"

[Withywindle]

109. LOL!

No really, I actually did LOL. Because we all KNOW by now that what comes after "I'm not a racist, but..." is never, ever, ever gonna be good--that one is really stand-up comic-worthy, though. Wow.

[jsmirman]

12. Oh, I spent an entire summer

campaigning in Pennsylvania - and as a New Yorker - I had no idea what was right next door.

Also, and I'm sure this we will disagree on, but after driving to the campaign offices every morning on a 20 to 40 minute route (depending on how late I was) - worst drivers ever. My line was that they were as bad as New Jersey drivers, but with a dash of Pennsylvanian arrogance that meant that they had no idea just how bad they were at driving.

Plonking along well below the speed limit in the speed lane seemed to be a very Pennsylvanian thing.

[blue neen]

20. I guess the driving thing would depend on what part of PA you were in.

I do agree with you about the tortoise car in the passing lanes!

Thanks for campaigning here, and please come back!

[jsmirman]

24. In the LV

I will always have a special place in my heart for Allentown. The people are generally poor as shit, but they are like an oasis of wonderful in a sea of something quite different. I've campaigned three separate times in the region. I'm having my issues (both life and politics) as to whether I'll be able to be back for this go round, but crazier things have happened.

The memories from June to August were unforgettable, but damn, did I see some eye-opening things!

[arely staircase]

92. in east texas the kkk is pretty much only visible in the far southeast corner - you may have heard o

vidor, tx. though the aryan brotherhood seems to be well represented in the rest of it, they don't hold rallies; when they make the newspaper it is usually for assaulting one another and getting arrested for cooking meth.

[Amaril]

117. Oh, I believe it

I grew up in northwestern PA, and some of the most racist asshats I've ever met were members of my own family.

[blue neen]

137. Same here, and they're quite proud of it, too!

It boggles the mind.

[maddiemom]

178. I live in Pennsylvania too.

The cliche expression "Pennsylvania is Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Arkansas (or Mississippi etc.) in between" always cracked me up because it's sadly true of some in the state; of course, not all.

[RKP5637]

5. K&R !!! n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. You know...as I said in another thread

(and you are absolutely correct). Some of this goes to the civil war and reconstruction. It starts early, with civil war/ war of northern aggression.

Does the south have some racists? Yup, so does the back country here in Cali. Of course water is wet, but people talk of it regarding the South. Few mention some of my local boy scouts.

But to be honest I have no idea how to get over it, and the stereotypes fly on all sides.

[jsmirman]

7. First of all, you sound awesome

and I can't thank you enough for what you do for the critters. If only - if *only* - there were more people like you on this Earth.

There's no question that good people down South need more support rather than less support - I always found it fascinating to talk to the girls starting an animal advocacy chapter at their school in South Carolina, where they faced an even different climate from what we were used to here in the mid-Atlantic.

I almost chose to go to law school in Alabama to try to take on this sort of fight.

For one - please help us out in some of these threads to help people around here to see that at a progressive website, it is terribly sad when people who love animals and people who love the environment are viewed as the enemy, or as easily discarded collateral.

For two - please help those of us who might get our views denigrated/dismissed because we come from a place like New York, where many seem to imagine we would simply die if we ever stepped foot outside our bubble of pollution and concrete. Some of us, you know, have traveled extensively (and not glamorously), and we get very tired of being treated as though we are some lesser species.

In return, I will continue to do what I have been doing, which is to say that region bashing is counterproductive bullshit and to tell people to knock it off wherever I see it pop up.

I will say that Mississippi gets a special place and I may be unable to restrain a little chuckle when Mississippi does something ass-backward or ridiculous, which comes from Mississippi being a pretty unique place in a region of unique places, from the hilarious arguments between two of my best friends in college (from Mississippi and Arkansas, respectively) about whose state sucked worse and was actually the single shittiest state, and from my unusual familiarity with Mississippi, as I studied it exhaustively for seven years and eventually wrote my college thesis about that state. And still can name most of the pre-1865 counties.

[WCGreen]

8. I live in one of the most conservative voting city's surrounding Cleveland, Ohio....

When people ask where I am from, they always say, oh yea...

And they walk away.

I kinda know how you feel.

[backwoodsbob]

28. in a backwards way you made my point

I would guess I'm one of about 4 I can think of at my shop of 200 who voted straight dem in 2008...after talking to people and presenting arguments in a reasonable way without denigration or stereotyping....I would guess 50 in my shop will vote straight dem in 2012.

It's all about working the crowd and not alienating

We can tell 40 million people we hate them and dont want them and watch them vote repuke or we can talk to them and let them know we are the best choice for our country and the world

[Warpy]

36. The south is a near theocracy

and unless you're saying that stuff in a pulpit, most folks won't listen to you.

That's why people outside the south resent them so much. They've been a theocratic millstone around the country's neck since the break from England.

Rabid right wing assholes exist all over the country. My grandfather had a cross burned on his lawn in Indiana in the 1920s. I met some of the worst bigots I'd ever met in my life in Boston.

However, the culture is such that right wingers are the dominant force in the south.

I know you try your best down there, as did I. You are just vastly outnumbered and this is why people are disgusted with Dixie.

[PassingFair]

88. +1

Old time religion is the main problem.

[RebelOne]

11. I live in the South, Atlanta, Ga, area to be exact.

I was born a northerner, but grew up in Miami, FL, and then I moved to Atlanta in 1989.

I am not a racist POS even though I grew up during the era of segregation in the 1950s. I remember separate water fountains and restrooms for blacks and whites.

Living in Miami, I had many gay friends, so I have no problem with gay rights. And I am not pro-abortion, and being a woman, I am pro-choice.

And I am a animal rights activist. In fact, I am a vegetarian. I have saved many animals. I used to work as a volunteer for our local humane society. I have found homes for and fostered many dogs and cats.

So, you can say that I, too, am the South.

[trof]

14. Yeah, OK, fine. But where are ya' on NASCAR?

Sorry, as a fellow Southerner I couldn't resist.


Yeah, I hear ya'.
In my first couple of years here I used to 'bite' on the South bashing threads.
Really WADED in.
I finally realized it wasn't worth it.

There are some here with preconceived notions about our part of the nation.
Thankfully not that many.

Yes, I deplore the political situation here in Alabama.
In tomorrow's primary my ballot gives me a choice of voting for President Obama as the Democratic nominee or..."Other".
And then I can vote for delegates to the Democratic National Convention.
That's it.
No Democrat is standing for any other office in Baldwin County.
We're the reddest county in a red state.


I live here because I like it.
The people, the land, the life, the je ne sais quois.

I grew up here and returned after many years away.
Roots, I guess.
We have some very good and close friends.
And we generally don't discuss politics.
There's a lot more to life than politics.

Peace.

[KamaAina]

126. NASCAR is hardly even southern anymore

with races in places like New Hampshire, Michigan, Kansas, and yes, California.

Not to mention drivers like champ Tony Stewart (Indiana), four-time previous champ Jimmie Johnson (California), Kasey Kahne and Greg Biffle (Washington), and of course Danica Patrick (Wisconsin).

[Mopar151]

136. "Hardly even Southern" has always described stock car racing

If you broaden that to include all oval track racing, it's never been true. Some of the moonshiners were pretty good car builders, but the parts they used came from all over the country.

[stonecutter357]

151. K&R...

[CurtEastPoint]

16. Well said, Bob. I'm in GA and yes, there are shitheads here

but there are also decent, kind people of all persuasions (mostly Dems, though!) who are good to people and animals. It's not right to generalize about any group or region or ... anything, I guess.

Value the individuals.

[izquierdista]

17. You ain't the South, Bob

And it sounds like you never will be. And even though I have lived in GA and SC for going on 10 years, neither am I.

What makes it tolerable to live here? Most of the people I hang with aren't the South either. So we have our little islands of civilization in a vast sea of ignorance. We network. We think of a tactful way to decline invitations to go to Pastor Bubba's church. We spend a lot of time on the Internet, connecting to the rest of the world.

Yes, there's a stereotype of the Southerner, the tobacco chewing ignorant redneck. I won't say I can spot them from a 100 yards off, but when they get up close, and especially when they open their mouth, they give themselves away. So I give them fair chance, say a minute, minute and a half before I'll judge them based on my elitist upbringing and education.

[backwoodsbob]

37. no you are WRONG

I AM THE SOUTH!I AM THE PROUD SOUTH! I AM THE LIBERAL PRO RIGHTS ANTI CORP SOUTH!

I don't know who I despise worse..the rednecks or the defeatists who tell me I should give up.

I would rather hang with the rednecks and try to change them than hang with some bitter person who tries to hide with a few like minded people who hug themselves while complaining there is nothing they can do.

LOOK AROUND..Virginia went blue,,,,Carolina went blue.

WE CAN DO THIS!

[izquierdista]

87. How am I going to change my neighbor?

I'm not bitter about him, but he is set in his own ways and there really is "nothing I can do". So we talk about our chickens, what to plant, when they are going to widen the road in front of us, sports, the weather, anything but politics and religion.

But about like minded, you've got it exactly backwards. I have friends here who came from Congo, Panama, Wisconsin; they are anything but "like minded". That term describes the Bubba stereotype that I limit my exposure to.

[backwoodsbob]

56. I won't hide or hold back

I AM PROUD to be a liberal.I don't hide my feelings/alliances to anyone and I am respected for it.

I can change more people by engaging and talking than by hiding and pretending I am better than others.

[wendylaroux]

19. midwest here

and oh my goodness,do we have alot of doozies here. Small towns and such.

[Uncle Joe]

21. People like simple solutions that fit with their preconceptions of life, complexity that challenges

is hard emotional work.

Thanks for the thread, backwoodsbob and kudos to your treatment of animals.

[nolabear]

22. I know, Baby. It makes an old liberal hippie Southerner sad.

There are SO many good people. And there are a lot of people who are wrestling with their convictions and who get driven right back into old ways of thining when under attack. I know...everyone knows that there are people in the South that have all those characteristics that people carp about, but there is so, so much more. People just having lives and being glad for others having lives. But they don't get any attention. I guess because people like to have a common enemy to make them feel cohesive, to make them feel like they're better than someone else and that it's okay to talk about them as though they're less than human...wait...that sounds familiar. Aren't we supposed to be rising above that?

With all the problems the South does have, it's pretty awful to feel as though we're seen as all being just alike and deficient somehow.

And don't tell me I'm one of the good ones, folks. I've heard that before in a significant other context, too.

[stonecutter357]

152. K&R...

[tledford]

23. It's an old story, isn't it?

North Carolina born, bred and lived all my life, although I've traveled a lot for work. And I consider about 75% of what I see on DU to be slightly "right of center" in philosophy as compared to mine.



But that can't be POSSIBLE, can it, because I'm in (and of) North Carolina!

[socialist_n_TN]

97. RE: DU being right of personal center.........

That's ME! This is a centrist board as far as I'm concerned. I spend a lot of time here trying to get these people to understand what the REAL problem is and what the solution is. It's called capitalism and Marxism respectively.

And not only am I living in Tennessee, I also grew up in Alabama and Mississippi. Not only that, but my ANCESTORS from before the Revolution (the American one) were southerners. AND I'M A DUES PAYING COMMIE!

Bob's rant reminded me of myself a few decades ago, but I got over it. You can't stress over message board bullshit. If somebody wants to stereotype me as a "southerner", we'll just have to talk about issues and see exactly how LEFT we are.

[mother earth]

25. People make generalizations on everything. Everyone here at DU, where ever they are from could say

something similar. I'm glad you are all the things you say you are...now go out there and educate others.

No one has the market cornered on any level. Ignorance is the enemy & we don't spend nearly enough money on education. It's a sad state of affairs no matter how you see things. Ignorance reigns supreme.

I'm from New England, and I don't think "Southerners" are the enemy, we've got plenty of ignorance to go around here.

One of the people I admire most is Mudcat Saunders & he understands what Democrats are up against with the South.

[Aerows]

26. I live in MS

You would be hard pressed to find someone more liberal than my flaming lesbian self. Don't get offended by the occasional south basher - most people around here are quick to defend the south.

There are good and bad people in all areas.

[handmade34]

27. Hey Bob...

for a spin... let me say that not all Vermonters are socially aware

I get what you are saying!

...though I am working in Southern Virginia right now and I wish there weren't so many Confederate flags flying in people's yards

[stuntcat]

29. I grew up next to SC :)

I'm always proud of being from the beautiful South I don't live there right now but if I ever can I'll move back to NC, to the mountains this time.

[showmethejedi]

30. Take this to heart my fellow American (s)

We are one country, some of us may not share the same views, in fact some of our views can be and are ass backwards. Anyone who judges you because of the state your from must first judge the problems with their own state and our county as a whole. I am from New York and I see the problems that face our country, and my state alike but as Americans we work together to solve our problems as a country. I stand by my countrymen without regard for their state of origin. The partisan atmosphere is not the fault of the people of the south, or the people of the northeast or the midwest. The politicians see us only as potential votes and go to great lengths to see to it that we are geographically and ideologically oposed to one another. It is in these differences that I find strength and character, not opposition and infighting. We need a new era of government that is truly for the people and by the people, with full acountability for any " party of no" and their destructive policy. It matters not where your from, only that you have an opinion that is constructive and that your voice is loud enough to be heard.

[pecwae]

31. Reccity rec rec!

I love you for your dedication to the animals. Thank you so much!

That you're Southern just makes it extra special to me.

[Hoyt]

33. I live in the south. Truthfully, there are a lot of people just like you describe. Good luck in SC.

There are a lot of good folks too, but just look at election results -- the yahoos outnumber liberals.

And, all the the right wingers aren't stupid and under-educated. I have relatives there who are very well educated, quite wealthy, even smart to some extent -- but, they hate poor people. They feel they deserve special treatment as "job creators" and that they are anointed by God.

Glad you are an exception, and maybe you can convert a few.

[pinboy3niner]

34. A Cheerwine toast to you!

[wendylaroux]

41. Oh no you did not!!

I want a Cheerwine,-------------And I want it now!!!

[pinboy3niner]

43. They will deliver it to your door

I'd never heard of it until I visited Salisbury, NC (the home of Cheerwine) about 10 years ago and a friend took me to the local barbecue joint, where I was introduced to the sensation of this magical soft drink.

Don't deny yourself any longer--ordering information here:

http://www.cheerwine.com/

[wendylaroux]

65. your the best!! thanks!!

[stonecutter357]

154. Cheerwine

[TeamsterDem]

35. I agree with you

stereotyping southerners is a big part of the reason that many southerners see us as elitist. With reason: It is elitist to judge people that way.

[mahina]

38. Aren't we all somethingists?

Regionists, racists, politicalists, skinnyists, smartists, elitists, whateverists?

My great great grandfather was a civil war general. I inherited anti-Southern bias based on my grandmother's loathing of the bigotry she left behind. We're prejudiced but I wasn't even aware of it.

My grandfather's family came from Ireland and he truly hated the British. I only recently realized why I never wanted to go to England or to the South.

Now I hope to visit both.

[Demonaut]

46. and I grew up in the UK learning how stupid the Irish were and now I'm trying to Irish roots

it really depends on what we're exposed to as children, I think most figure it out later in life

[Number23]

39. I was born and raised in the South. Some of the most racist people I have EVER known

were from way above the Mason Dixon line.

I went to an all black, inner city high school. A few years after graduation I ran into one of my former classmates who was going to Harvard. He loved Harvard but hated Boston saying it was full of the most ignorant, racist people he had ever met.

This whole "racism/ignorance/stupidity etc. only exists among Southerners/Republicans/Christians etc. etc. etc." crap is the kind of projection and denial that does absolutely nothing but make the person spouting the nonsense feel superior. What they appear to not realize is that everyone else knows better and can see right through them.

[grasswire]

40. a problem, Bob, is that some people MAKE FORTUNES promoting those stereotypes

Look at all the TV programming that exploits the stereotypes!!

Look at people like Paula Deen, and Larry the Cable Guy, and a thousand other entities (businesses, celebs, entertainers, politicians etc) who actively put forward the notion of redneck, racist, uneducated, grease-eating dirty southerners.

To say nothing of the propagandists on the right who play to the stereotypes as well, for political reasons.

I would say that those who make money off the stereotyping are beneath contempt. It's another way of dividing us.

[backwoodsbob]

51. YOU NAILED IT

We have to fight the stereotypes everywhere.
Plenty of people here are opposed to the president not because he is dem..or African American...or left (supposedly) leaning..it is because he is one of those *big city elitists*

We HAVE to stop the region bashing on ALL sides

[grasswire]

66. "Latte liberal" is also an object of hatred

I am a northerner (who lived in Virginia for a number of years) and a lefty. A conservative web site has targeted me simply because they hate Democrats. They call me ignorant and make up all kinds of stories so google will turn up a negative stereotype about me. They have targeted other members of DU, made up ugly stories and issue oblique threats.

That's the same kind of propaganda and shit-stirring that happens to southerners.

If that's any comfort.

[arcane1]

42. Count me in as born & raised in Richmond, VA

[xmas74]

44. I only diss on the South

when it comes to sports. Then ya'll deserve it.

I'm in Missouri. Do you know what special kind of hell I've been given on this forum? It can be awful. I understand what you're going through.

(Oh, and this fall you can file us under "the South", since Mizzou will be playing-and getting their butts kicked-in the SEC.)

[stonecutter357]

155. RTR

RTR.

[xmas74]

183. All over Faurot Field.

'bama will be in Columbia on October 13. I wouldn't be surprised if it sells out-I'm hoping to get tickets.

I see we have Kentucky for Homecoming. That's something Mizzou does right-great Homecomings, win or lose.

[DCBob]

45. I lived in Arkansas and Mississippi for several years.

There were many good liberals there but mostly in the urban areas and college towns. However, they dont have much of a voice due to the overwhelming influence of the hard core RW conservatives. But we should not give up on these states since look what happened to Virginia and North Carolina.. suddenly they are now "lean blue" states. Who would thought that just 5 years ago?

[Nye Bevan]

47. Enjoy your plantation in SC!

(Kidding!)

[Hoyt]

75. As one of southern comics says, "Don't care what anyone says, that's funny."

[dmallind]

153. Except he's from Nebraska,

And lives just down the road from where I did, in Lincoln's most nouveaux riches development (in a much nicer house than my old one, natch).

[The Doctor.]

48. You're wrong.

I've yet to see anyone here claim that the South is comprised entirely of morons.

The general notion is that the South simply has a higher concentration of them than most northern states. Except for South Dakota, but even that is the South of the Dakotas.

[bluestate10]

49. Bob.

You sound like a upstanding human being. The issue that I have with the South is not with people like you, hell if you showed up in my town I would treat you to dinner. The issue that I have with the South and many southerners came out in bold colors with the poll results on President Obama's religion. President Obama is a christian southern people, the man is a christian and there is NO reason to question the religion of a person that has shown himself to be a good family man.

The South is heavy on ignorant people that constantly vote against their best interests and habor hatreds toward any one that don't look like them. This I can neither fathom or tolerate.

[pipi_k]

50. Just wondering if

there's a similar hatred for the north going on down south.

If the daughter in law of some friends is any indication, I would guess there is. Of course, I can't judge everyone by one asshole, but she sure doesn't make me want to visit Texas anytime soon.

Her hubby was transferred from his base in TX last year soon after their marriage. He's a Mass native. She's from Lubbock.

Wasn't even here two weeks before she started complaining about everything up here. The regional fair wasn't as big as the one in Texas. The food sucks. The weather sucks. The roads suck. And New Englanders are "rude".

All this, mind you, after saying that New England was "full of loud-mouthed obnoxious Italians".

Last week she started up again. Calling New Englanders rude, saying how much she hates it here and making it sound like hell on earth. She has all her friends and family on Facebook praying for her to get the strength to "endure" up here.

Oh please...

And she makes sure that all her in-laws (who live up here) and Facebook friends know just how disgusted she is with New England.

I actually ended up defriending AND blocking her on Facebook because I wasn't sure I could avoid giving her a verbal smackdown.

So anyway...I would bet that we up here in NE are just as vilified by ignoramuses in the south as the other way around.

[w8liftinglady]

53. LOL... I feel your pain here in Texas

As a former Connecticut resident and military brat. Good luck to your friend's son,pipi

[jeff47]

57. Yes

The actual "good ol' boys" have a burning hatred of the evil north that destroyed their "special way of life".

You'll note that's not "all southerners".

[Skittles]

68. aw HELL yes

so many of them haven't gotten over losing the CIVIL FREAKING WAR

[Arkansas Granny]

52. Thank you, Bob. It gets a little disheartening to read posts here that lump all of us

in with the racist, science denying, RW loonies and imply that we're all the same. There's no doubt that they exist around here, and I have met my share. However, there are a lot of people down here who don't share those views and values and we aren't passing those close minded attitudes along to our children.

There's still work to be done, but things are changing. They've changed a lot in the 40+ years that I've lived here.

[w8liftinglady]

54. you are right.

When I was travelling through Arkansas, we stopped at an old hole-in-the-wall restaurant for lunch. I talked with a couple of old farmers there...they were die-hard Democrats.So were both of my old partners-one from Texas,one from La.

[baldguy]

55. If you don't like the way the South is viewed by the rest of the country, then you change it.

Obama’s Muslim, evolution is fake & Rush Limbaugh is great, Republican voters say in poll
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101473379

2008 Electoral College Presidential Election Results


Mississippi Conservatives Talk About Their Hatred Of Obama
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101716037

WE can't do it. If a Liberal Heathen Yankee goes there to show people the truth, he's liable to be killed. AND IT'S BEEN THAT WAY FOR 50 YRS, AT LEAST. The ignorant racist morons have too much power in the South, and the South has too much influence over national politics. This is what has almost destroyed the New Deal policies which helped to rescue the South after the Great Depression.

America shouldn't have to lose itself to appease the South, but if & when when the South wants to join America we'll be here.

[nolabear]

70. All right, now you watch mine.

[hughee99]

127. Bill Maher NAILED IT, because no one understands the south better than

than a comedian that grew up in New Jersey, went to college in New York, and lives in California.

I bet you could make a video just like this in New York, New Jersey or California if you wanted to. The only differences would be the "scenery" and the accents.

[MADem]

150. That wasn't Bill Maher's video. It was Nancy Pelosi's daughter's.

He just gave her a platform--he had no input as to editorial content.

Not fair to hit him for what GOP voters were saying.

[hughee99]

162. My apologies to Bill.

Clearly, Alexandra Pelosi is much better acquainted with the south. Look, my actual point still stands. This is a few minutes of video of a few people in a small region that people are using to denigrate millions of people. The type of thinking among the idiots in this video can be found in New York, New Jersey, or California as well. Using this as evidence to put down all southerners is like using Jersey Shore to attack all Italian-Americans.

[MADem]

163. I did not see the whole show. I did see the video.

I didn't take that to be representative of all of the south. I took it as representative of very poor, very white Republicans in Mississippi, and nothing more.

To me, it illustrated the mindset of people who vote against their interests out of a combination of rank stupidity and foolish, false pride.

[hughee99]

166. The original post to which I replied seemed to be

using this as evidence of people in red states in general. It's just a video of a handful of idiots in mississippi, though, and it would be like me suggesting people in California are stupid because Jay Leno ran a 2 minute video of him asking people very easy questions and them having no clue.

While it may illustrate the mindset of some idiots, it's a big leap to suggest that most people in these states are like them.

[guardian]

200. "you could make a video just like this in New York, New Jersey"

They already did. It's called the Jersey Shore.

[RedEarth]

134. Timothy McVeigh born and raised in New York, Terry Nichols born and raised in Michigan

[Hippo_Tron]

188. The county red to blue map shows a slightly different picture...

Outside of New England, the West Coast, Colorado and New Mexico (with rapidly increasing Hispanic populations), and the Great Lakes states, the pattern is largely the same. Urban areas vote Democratic and rural areas and small towns vote Republican. There's plenty of Republicans in upstate New York. It just happens that New Yorker State residents are fortunate to have enough of an urban population that those people are a minority in that particular piece of geography that was arbitrarily defined hundreds of years ago.

Take New York City, Albany, Syracuse, Rochester, and Buffalo and collectively give them the vote share of their state that New Orleans has. New York's voting patterns will suddenly look a lot like Louisiana. Take Baltimore City, Baltimore County, Montgomery County, Prince George's County, and give them the vote share that Jackson has. All of a sudden Maryland's voting patterns look a lot like Mississippi. Take Philadelphia and Pittsburgh and give them the vote shares of Montgomery and Birmingham. Suddenly you've got Alabama.

All over the country you have the same pattern. Where there's sparsely populated areas, there's Republicans. Some people are just fortunate enough to live in states where there's a large enough urban population to out-vote the crazy.

[Gman]

58. I don't really give a rat's ass what they think

I gave up on them long ago. They can kiss my Texan ass. They just reinforce their own stereotype among us down here.

[stonecutter357]

156. I don't really give a rat's ass

[mistertrickster]

59. I live in Kansas and I'm a huge Liberal too.

But no way am I naive enough to say "I am Kansas."

This is a bitterly conservative state that didn't even legalize alcohol until 1948.

Just because there are a lot of good and decent liberals here doesn't mean that as a group Kansas is as mean-spirited Con as you can get . . . and getting MORE Con by the day if the elected officials are any indication.

[Dawson Leery]

60. In fairness, there are pockets of ignorance in New England.

Upper Fairfield County (small towns) is no bastion of enlightenment.

[w8liftinglady]

64. My aunt still tells me stories about New Haven

My doc tells me stories about Boston...hate speech knows no boundries.

[Dawson Leery]

73. East Haven is for whites only:

http://articles.courant.com/2012-01-25/news/hc-east-haven-police-fbi-arrests-0125-20120124_1_police-officers-east-haven-civil-rights

[Mopar151]

190. Pockets? POCKETS?

Up Noth (I'm in NH) we have ignorance by the trailer full, and the fools are legion. Despite Ivy Leauge colleges and toney "Prep" schools, plus old money by the carload - we have "teh stoopid".

To be fair - our homegrown dumbasses ain't all that bad, 'til the imported stupid gets aholt of 'em. Rush, Rove's SuperPac, the Union Leader's founder (Willy Loeb), Bircher icon Mel Thompson, Free Staters - all came here from "Downcountry"- looking for fresh fools to stupify.
One of our biggest issues, IMHO, coincides with the skeleton in Sen. Ayotte's closet - An expensive suit, a firm handshake, and the right connections are a gold-plated license to steal here.

[arely staircase]

62. you go, backwoodsbob nt

[Old and In the Way]

67. The 2nd District here in Maine is not a whole lot of different, Bob.

I think we were the only district in NE to go for McCain in 2008. I suspect that the political culture is a function of social culture. We are very rural here and the smaller the town, the more likely it votes Republican (with a few exceptions). Not much culture up here...except snowmobiling, ice-fishing, and hunting. Lots of lower middle-class and even poverty...but a big streak of prideful independence tinging on anti-govenment attitudes. Also, fundamental pentacostal-type religion is doing well...traditional churches, not so much. I'm convinced the Green Party, which is surprisingly strong here, is mainly comprised of moderate/liberal Republicans who can't stomach their hard right former Party. In such a monolythic, low- to-no diversity environment where there's a distrust of outsiders and generations of shared experiences between clans of people...I think it's the perfect breeding ground for low information Republicanism.

[Honeycombe8]

82. Pictures of Maine are always so pretty. I dream of visiting there one day.

Cold, humid weather. Lots of raincoats. Murder She Wrote. But I've read it's really expensive up there. (I'm waaaay down here in Texas. Originally from Louisiana, so I like humidity.)

[juajen]

76. I'm a liberal in Louisiana. I feel your pain.

[Honeycombe8]

80. I'm from Louisiana, too! I live in Dallas now. I'm from Cajun country...southwest La. And yes,...

I am a cajun. Through and through. Not sure if that's a good thing or not, but it is what it is.

[w8liftinglady]

91. Most of the Cajuns that I know in Dallas vote Democratic

I knew a whole slew from Lake Charles!

[Honeycombe8]

99. The hell you say! That's where I'm from! nt

[Speck Tater]

77. My son lives in the south, and when I visit him I meet a lot of wonderful people. But...

stereotypes don't spring up out of thin air. They are always cruel and thoughtless, but always an exaggeration of something real. Comics and comedians will never get a laugh out of something that is completely untrue. Poking fun at the "hillbillies in San Fransisco" just doesn't fly, because there's no small kernel of truth to it that makes it work as a stereotype.

I will confess that I have done my fair share of poking fun at "the South", but I think I'm more poking fun at an abstract concept than an actual place. I'm poking fun of a particular kind of people who work hard to stay ignorant, and who take great pride in their ignorance, and while there are plenty of those to be found in every state, there do tend to be pockets of concentration. My own area of rural Oregon is just such a pocket, and so are some places in the South. (Where I live the city of Eugene and the city of Springfield are separated by I5, and both made up of perfectly nice people, but the stereotype is that the people who live east of the freeway are the hicks and yokels to be poked fun of and made the butt of jokes. There is no escaping that phenomenon anywhere you go.)

I would in no way claim that everyone in the south is that way. It simply isn't true. It's not even a majority. In truth I'm sure it's probably a very small percentage, but it's a larger percentage than most (but not all) other places, and so it becomes a convenient shorthand, a symbol. It's insulting to intelligent, thoughtful caring people who live in the south, and that's a fact. Another fact is that as a stereotype, as a symbol, as a shorthand way of talking about the problem, it has just enough of a small tinge of truth to it to be sticky. (When my son first moved to the South 10 years ago his first reaction was "why can't these people seem to get over a war they lost 150 years ago?" Imagine if the Japanese or the Germans obsessed about WWII the way the South obsesses about the Civil War, wouldn't you consider that a bit peculiar? They put it behind them and moved on. The South doesn't do that, to their detriment. They work hard to keep the outrage alive from one generation to the next, just like the folks in the Middle East who train their young to hate the "ancient enemy".)

I'm sure for people from the south the stereotype is maddening, and I apologize for my own callousness in using the South as such a symbol. But the stereotype is not going to go away unless the underlying kernel goes away, and that's not likely to happen.

(And besides, ever since we were forbidden to tell Polish jokes by political correctness, we just don't have anybody left to pick on. And sometimes you just NEED somebody to pick on. Just ask Jeff Foxworthy and the folks from Hee-Haw why their humor works.)

So what would I do if I had the opportunity to move to the South and live closer to my son? I'd do it in a heartbeat. I enjoy visiting the South. I love the people, I love the geography and the flora and fauna. I love the South, Kudzu and all! I'd live there proudly, and with no hesitation. So no, I don't hate the South. I really don't hate the South. I love it. But I'm not likely to stop poking fun at it any time soon. (No disrespect intended.)

[Honeycombe8]

79. I am the south, too! Deep, deep, deep south. By the time I was 10, I was anti-racism.

By the time I was 15, I was a feminist. By the time I was late teens, I was aware of and against anti-semitism (I had a Jewish uncle by marriage). I didn't understand homosexuality (and it most certainly existed there), but never what you'd call against it. My thinking was, "Whatever. To each his own."

I am the deep south. Gumbo, fig pies, cracklins, crawfish, and cornbread south. Climbing in trees, pickin' figs, suckin' crawfish heads south. Fishin', crabbin', shootin', and boatin' south.

There are plenty people in the south who have a "whatever" attitude about things, as long as you leave 'em be.

[JoePhilly]

81. The GOP's Southern Strategy is called that for a reason.

And liberals from the North did not come up with that name.

The GOP's Southern Strategy was named by the GOP. Its target was on rural, lower class white communities in which the GOP anticipated an audience that would be receptive to blaming minorities for all of the ills lower class whites faced.

The GOP spread their message through the white protestant and evangelical churches. And they had particular success in rural areas.

Importantly, the name "Southern Strategy" limits the reach of this approach. Xenophobic lower middle class rural white folks exist in pretty much every state. And they tend to internalize the messages presented within the GOP's "Southern Strategy" model.

The reason the South continues to suffer from a more negative perception on this point is not because of the people in the South ... but because of the representatives who they tend to elect. They tend to elect state senators who promote the GOP "Southern Strategy" messages.

I'd contrast this with PA. PA tends to be a blue state, sort of. Its been described as Pitt to the west, Philly to the East, and Alabama in between. That's because the folks to the east and west will vote for Dems, and those in the middle would probably elect Boehner, Cantor, McConnell, so on.

Fortunately, Pitt and Philly tend to balance the crazy part of PA. Many Southern states don't have such counter balances. NC is started to develop some ... around Charlotte, Ashville, Wake County.

So this really is not a north or south thing ... its more a rural, lower middle class, white xenophobe thing. But the GOP would never call it that.

[libinnyandia]

84. I was born in the midwest, grew up in the midwest,and except for 22 years spent in New York,

spent most of my life in the midwest. I consider myself as an American first and much less importantly a midwesterner. I have never judged anyone based on which state he or she is from. After I have come to know him or her, then I make my judgement.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

85. Native Texan here. I am a third generation Democrat and live in East Texas.

It's bad. There are a few white Democrats around here, but not many.

Joe Barton does not represent me. He represents the oil companies.

[w8liftinglady]

86. LOL... DON'T get me started on Smokey Joe

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Joe_Barton

[Honeycombe8]

100. Are you in SE TX? That's KKK territory, so I wouldn't think there'd be many white Dems there.

I've driven thru there many times & always thought it was so pretty. But Jasper in SE TX is where those white men caught that black man and dragged him to death behind a truck, decapitating him. For no reason. I remembered Jasper as being so pretty when I drove through, Dairy Queen and all. I never thought that about Jasper again.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

174. I'm in East Texas north of there.

All of East Texas is pretty bad for blacks, but the towns on I-59 north, Cleveland, Jasper, Vidor, are absolutely the worst.

I remember when Henry Cisneros was the head of HUD. He went to Vidor because there was a housing project where they refused to let black people live there. He went there and tried to persuade them, and

they said "Hell no".

[WillyT]

90. No... It Really Isn't The South...

2000 Presidential Election:



2004 Presidential Election:



2008 Presidential Election:



Seems more City versus Country, than North versus South to me...

[Art_from_Ark]

111. I don't even know if it's city versus country

Sure, there are a lot of East and West Coast cities that favor Democrats, but the majority of counties in Arkansas, for example, that have voted for Democratic presidential candidates in the last 3 elections have been rural and nearly all have been in the flatter parts of the state. Pulaski County (Little Rock/North Little Rock) is the only urban county in Arkansas that consistently votes for Democrats. In neighboring Texas, there are rural southern counties that have consistently supported the Democratic candidate. And the counties of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, which is nearly all rural, seems to have split fairly evenly between red and blue in the last election.

[Old and In the Way]

112. I agree....see my post about.

There's my red county up in Maine...all by it's lonesome in New England. But, the good news seems to be that the maps are trending blue and I suspect the 2012 map will be even bluer....except Oklahoma.

[MissMarple]

135. Hey, WillieT. Interesting blue pattern in the south.

What is that blue swoosh from the Carolinas and across Georgia, Alabama, and on into Mississippi? Well, actually it seems to start in Virginia. Mississippi seems to have quite a bit of blue. I guess everything is in the numbers, but I am wondering about the cultural significance.

[bvar22]

173. That is an "All or Nothing" graphic,

like our Presidential Election,
but does NOT show a reliable distribution of Liberals, or even Democrats, across the country.

There is another one I can't find now that has shades of purple that is more representative.

[WillyT]

181. If You Find It... I Would Love To See It

[bvar22]

189. It took me a while to find it, but here it is.

This is a 2008 electoral map of Counties based on the percentage of the vote.

This is a good representation to aid in knocking down the walls imposed by binary thinking.
No Place is either RED or BLUE,
but everywhere is a shade of purple.

I remember seeing one of these maps based on precincts that was even more revealing.
Those maps clearly showed the very distinct divide of the inner city darker blues vs the bright reds of the Conservative Suburbs, and this was very consistent throughout the US.



http://uspolitics.about.com/od/elections/ig/President-Results-2004-2008/Proportional-Vote--2008.htm

[WillyT]

192. Way Cool... Is That The First Time That's Been Done ???

Cause all I could find was the binary ones.

And BTW... Thank You!!!

[Comatose Sphagetti]

93. Indiana cornfield liberal here...

I am completely surrounded by right wingers. Any attempt at critical thinking and reason with these individuals gets you nothing but rage and Fox news soundbites. The only reason I stay is roots/friends/beautiful country.

[jillan]

94. This proud Az liberal knows exactly what you are talking about.

Howard Dean understood this....
there are liberals even in the most reddest states.

We are the ones that fight the hardest for change because we have to, we want to.

Please don't judge us from the republicans that live in our red states....

"HELP US" well said backwoodsbob!!!!

[Generic Brad]

95. I find hate expressed towards the people of any region personally disgusting

I alerted on some southerner bashing a while back and was stunned by the 5-1 jury decision to let it stand. I seriously do not comprehend how that can be considered acceptable on this site.

[NAO]

96. I'm from Arizona - home of The War on MLK Day, SB1070 and banning Hispanic studies

I was born in Tucson, Arizona and have lived here my entire life. I dislike it that Arizona is portrayed as a hick state - but the facts are out there.

History - whether 30 years ago (anti-MLK day sentiment) or 2 years ago (xenophobic, racist anti-immigration SB1070) or the present (banning of Hispanic studies programs) - paints a negative picture of my home state.

Of course that doesn't mean everyone here is a bigot. In Tucson and Pima County, voters are very largely Democratic. My district elected Gabrille Giffords and Raul Grijalva in the infamous 2010 "shellacking". Arizona went for Clinton in 1996.

Nobody in the Reality Based Community thinks everyone in The South is a bigot. Nobody denies that some racism exists in New England.

But it's also undeniable that both "The South" and "The Southwest" are areas of much more concentrated and much more open bigotry. That's not "bullshit elitism". It's a matter of fact, established by empirical evidence, and part of the current political reality.

[wiggs]

98. Orange County Cal progressive here. South Orange County. Overall, Orange County

is red, full of bedroom communities, has messed up priorities, etc. Even though there are wonderful parts...even though there are pockets of sanity I recognize why people pigeonhole south Orange County the way they do...even though I know plenty of fellow liberals here. I don't feel picked on or typecast when others describe Orange County as plastic, rich, RW, and shallow. I'm not, but I'm not offended by the perception.

Are you saying the common perception of the south is wrong? Or that we seem incapable of discerning who from the south fits the stereotype and who doesn't?

I think DU is capable of nuance...knowing that there are people in the south NOT like the depiction in Bill Mahrs video short by Pelosi...knowing that some areas are bastions of ignorance and stubborness and some are not....

I'm not sure what you're getting at, unless I missed some history of the post wherein you were say some people assume something about another DUer because of a move to the south. Otherwise, I don't get the defensiveness.

[frazzled]

108. I'm with you on that

As someone who is married to a (very liberal) former South Carolinian and who has a (very liberal) sister who lives in Orange County, CA, I'm not getting the "hate" thing. Frankly, I feel it's a straw man the OP has set up.

Let's face it: on the whole the South is one of the most conservative parts of the country. And Orange County is one of the most conservative areas of California. That doesn't mean there aren't solid, raging liberals in both places. Nobody thinks there aren't. Just as there are diehard conservatives in Massachusetts and Vermont. Do they complain to their FR compatriots about "hate" against New England states?

I'm totally bewildered by this victim playing.

[Taverner]

104. I am a California Socialist

You guys fight twice as hard as we do...because your battle is uphill all the way

[politicasista]

106. Tennessee progressive here

Have been vocal about being in a red state to the blue staters here, but you see the good, bad, and ugly; get a good laugh out of it sometimes.

Good post too.

[cherokeeprogressive]

107. Haters gonna hate. I bet there isn't a fucking city, town, or burg in this whole country

that doesn't have at least one mouth-breathing racist puke. Most South haters live within a stone's throw from a bigoted person. Denial truly IS a river in Egypt for them.

I love the south. I might not love all its people, but I love it nevertheless.

I'd really like to see geographical bigotry banned here. It won't be though.

[AtomicKitten]

110. San Francisco was voted the most hated city in the nation.

It's a burden I endure.

[NuttyFluffers]

118. thank you! we can all hate each other like adults... and still learn to not care so much about it.

like i never heard SF, Bay Area, Norther California hate before. but i simply cannot be bothered to care. and y'know, sometimes they'll have a criticism and i'll think on it and it'll be like sorta true. but whatever, it is what it is. it isn't representative of every last one of us, and maybe one day we'll all improve.

thicker skin and all that. what the eff ever. where's people's apathy meter? just because we're americans and we'll fight to defend each other doesn't mean we have to like each other. shit, just look at most families. grow up and learn to deal; not everyone's gonna like you or where you're at. so what?

[stuntcat]

120. LOL's!! It's from total jealousy I think!

SF's the best!

[barbtries]

161. so many years ago,

like 37 years ago almost, i traveled from my home in SoCal to the bay area to visit a friend. i was slightly stunned by the hatred toward LA that i ran into during my (all of) three day visit. first, a friend of my friend, upon hearing that i was from LA, said, "oh, yes, i did time there too."
then my friend took me to a party where a whole bunch of (drunk, high, most likely, this was 1975) people suddenly in unison yelled, "FUCK LA!" at the top of their lungs.
it was like i didn't want to say where i was from and was cowed from saying to anyone that i loved where i lived, because at that place at that time, you just didn't do that.
point being i guess, this regional bigotry bullshit can be found all over. nonetheless it IS bullshit imo.

[Blue_Roses]

115. I understand

I was born and raised in Louisiana, went to college at Tech and LSU. Those are some of the best memories. Southerners are a unique people and many will give you the shirt off their back. We like to cook and we like feeding people. it's always been that way in my family and many others that I know.

But, unfortunately, the progressive, kind voice of many gets drowned out by the loud flapping jaws of a few and those are the ones who have fueled the hate for generations because of fear and ignorance. Those are the ones to get mad at cause they not only ruin the good things about the south, but it also misrepresents who we really are at heart.

We need more progressives speaking out in order to drown out those angry few.

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

116. BULLSHIT ELITIST? No, that is not judgmental. No, that is not hate.

If you wish to live somewhere that the majority of your new neighbors are intolerant of your perception of the world, Go For It.
I will never again live in the southeast.
When I lived there (seven different cities) I was able to find friends. There are open minded people to be found.

But after being fired for being gay, even though it was against the corporate diversity policy. The “BULLSHIT ELITIST” disregarded cooperated directives and got rid of me because; they and their invisible man in the sky thought themselves superior to me.

[jobycom]

130. Good thing homophobia and bigotry have been eliminated outside the South. nt

[KILL THE WISE ONE]

197. Eliminated, No. but what I deal with on a daily basis is almost nonexistent for me here.

[Scuba]

119. Yeah, but up here in Wisconsin, everyone's a liberal. Yeah, that's it.

[Blue_Tires]

122. I'm a Virginian and I don't pay it much mind

Besides, I dish out my fair share of abuse to other states/cities

[IDemo]

123. Idaho is well north of the Mason Dixon line,

but some days around here you'd think it's one big Klan rally.

[hifiguy]

124. Your point is entirely valid.

Those of us who do not live in the South or in border states come to judgments, which are not entirely fair, based on the elected politicians we see from those states. And the evidence in that regard is, for the most part, appalling, it must be admitted, on the levels of governor and US Senator. Somebody is delivering significant majorities for these drooling cretins from southern and border states. I know it's not DUers or liberals, but the sort of politicans that are elected in any state does say something about the majority in that state, especially when it goes on for a couple of generations. Texas, for example, hasn't had a governor who could use toilet paper without one-syllable instructions printed on each sheet in nearly twenty years.

No place is immune from having goofball reichwing cretins elected. Speaking for my native upper midwest see Michele Bachmann and Snotty Scotty Walker and that human dildo Sensenbrenner - but we also have or had people like Al Franken, Russ Feingold and Paul Wellstone and Mark Dayton elected to high office in the near-past.

I have no doubts that there are many good, progressive people in the South and every other region of the country. Outsiders tend to conflate the politicians they see from a region with that region's population. Hubert Humphrey was Minnesota's face to the nation for many years, and his compassion, forcefulness on civil rights and championship of liberal causes was seen as the essence of Minnesota politics. Unfortuately, majorities in many southern and border states keep electing the most revolting, retrograde cretins to statewide office time and again.

I feel for the good, compassionate people who live in these states. It has to be hell.

[geardaddy]

125. Yep,

some of the most rednecked, racist people I've heard talk are from around the 45 parallel. Minnesota, WI, Iowa, Upstate NY, etc.

[jobycom]

129. This liberal vegetarian atheist humanitarian Southerner agrees. nt

[just1voice]

132. A frank conversation would have both pros and cons

Pros -- the South can be beautiful, it's warmer, and a place is usually what you make of it.
Cons -- millions of proud-to-be-stupid, war mongering repukes who love lies, criminals and faux-elitism.

I live in Virginia, I am fully aware of what society is like when 1/2 of its population is psychotic.

[Papagoose]

133. I live in Georgia and I understand what you call hate about the South

When I moved here from Philadelphia, I knew I was moving to a "red state", but I was completely unprepared by the realization that for me at least, it was far worse than expected. I try every single day not to generalize and stereotype, but the people that I find myself living and working around are without a doubt the most unpleasant, ignorant and obstinate people I have ever encountered in my life. I have lived in several parts of the country, but until I lived in the South, I never knew what it was like to be hated for my beliefs or distrusted for simply being from a different area. Before I got here, I believed in "Southern Hospitality", but I see that as a complete myth now.

I spend most of my time now trying to find a way to get out of here, but this is where my job is, my kids are in school here and my wife really has no interest in leaving until the kids are older.

Yes, there are good people here and I apologize to the good people in the South...and I hope to meet you someday.

[MissMarple]

138. We sat down for breakfast at a B&B with a couple from Boulder.

Their initial response when we said we are from Colorado Springs was priceless. My daughter and I look very Republican. But it ended well.

[wryter2000]

139. This coastie salutes you

It's hard enough to live in a conservative area without coming to DU and getting bashed. It's easy being liberal where I live, Oakland, CA. Our members in less liberal parts of the country deserve our support, not our scorn. Less liberal north and south.

[ScreamingMeemie]

140. I moved to Texas (Houston area) because I wanted to.

So here I am, turning Texas, at least, purple. One vote at a time. There's a lot of us in Houston, so I don't see the stereotyping as much. This area is very much transplants.

[Bonhomme Richard]

141. I thinik the reality is rural versus populated rather than north/south.

Whether it's western PA, upstate NY, or Greenville SC, from what I hear and read the common denominator seems to be how exposed to outside cultures, religions, ideas a group of people are. It is very difficult to hold on to "the way things were" when you are confronted day in and day out with challenges to your definition of normal. It is not by accident that the heavily populated areas tend to be more open to change because that is how they live every day.
Cultural isolation is the villain here.
Solution: More people from heavily populated areas need to move to the country.

[hifiguy]

143. I believe you are on to something here.

Here in Minnesota, as north as one can get, the divide is clearly urban/everywhere else. Places that are reasonably cosmopolitan have a considerably lower density of idiots, though there are still idiots.

[cynatnite]

142. A lib in the South and I'm proud to make this rec #100. n/t

[Tveil]

145. MLK said the racism he experienced in Chicago was worse than Mississippi.

Mississippi

I hear the N word a lot, and unfortunately from my union peers in Chicago. Oh, they will vote for him but the names they use to describe him are sickening. Their Opinions of gays is even worse. Don't be fooled into thinking a blue state is any better.

[barbtries]

146. Thank you!

lifelong bleeding heart liberal, leaning more left as i age, living in NC...thank you very much.
bashing is useless, a waste of energy. we can turn this place. NC went blue in 2008 and it WILL again this year. believe it. help make it happen.
thank you so much - this needed to be said and you expressed it perfectly.

[MADem]

147. It's an uphill climb.

I take people as individuals, but it is unfortunately a fact that a region's reputation will precede them. People in south BOSTON are perceived as racist, even though Southie is much more ethnically diverse than it was in the all-white Irish/Polish/some-but-not-much Italian days of Louise Day Hicks and forced busing.

It doesn't help the case when the pollsters report that so many voters in the south believe that Obama is a Muslim, and that so many GOP politicians with rather hateful views come from the south.

It doesn't mean people should be shitty to you, or assume that the predominant attitude (at least among the white population) is racist and hate-laden, but it does suggest that there are a few haters down that way because way too many of those guys (and it's mostly guys) keep getting elected.

People automatically "assume" that anyone from San Francisco is a Democrat, or better still, a Socialist, pro-equality, liberal, environmentally aware, etc. I'm sure you could find some people who are anything but that living inside the city limits. Regardless, that doesn't take away the broad brushed sense that MOST people are not haters in that town.

It's all about paradigms and perceptions.

All you can do is be you, lead by example, and not worry what other people think.

[DeadEyeDyck]

148. I love the south and I got something for everyone to hate.

I am biracial with a black father and white German mother. I was born and lived much of my life in Germany. My father is a retired Green Beret. When he retired, we moved to pan-handle Florida. While in undergraduate school, I worked in a poultry plant as IT support. My dad was their physical security director. I did graduate school in Atlanta at Emory.

I cannot remember having a problem with anyone. If anything, I have been ribbed more by my black friends than white for having a German accent. But nothing serious. I love the weather here and the people. The culture is rich and grounded. Even in the small hamlets, I am treated with kindness and respect.

What is funny is that I am from Germany yet the only Nazi I have ever seen were at a rally in North Chicago.

[WilliamPitt]

149. What he said.

[Doctor_J]

157. No one here ASSUMES anything about individuals, you included

But as a region the South is ignorant and brainwashed, under the thumb of Hate Radio. If you don't want us to say that wasteland of racists and Limbeciles, then try wrestling your state away from Beck.

[Jennicut]

158. There are crappy, racist disgusting conservative people in every state.

Even in Connecticut where I live, there are ultra right wing racists. I don't believe in cutting the country into mini countries. Education of the ignorant is a better choice. We need liberals in the south.

[gtar100]

160. If you are the south, you don't have the pulpit. The "South" has its reputation for a reason.

I know full well that "The South" is not all racist. But the racists do dominate public discourse and get a free pass there much more so than they should. Heck, I saw racism, fundamentalism, and crazy psychotic republicans all in their full glory right in Boulder, Colorado. It's everywhere. But if the people from the south don't want to be branded as such, well then more of the non-racists need to tell the racists among them to shove their bullshit back up where it came from. And to not let them get away with dictating public policy. Seriously, it looks as bad as Arizona sometimes.

[AtheistCrusader]

164. Statistically speaking, you are not "The South".

You are behind enemy lines on many political issues, and I wish you luck. It can't be easy or fun to be in your position.

With time, it will get better, I am sure. Exactly how much time, I do not know.

[Uncle Joe]

169. Statistically speaking, you aid those you claim to despise the most when you describe a region

of the United States consisting of at least over a third of the population as being "enemy" territory.

The job of those string puller PTBs; who would divide the nation along, regional, racist, gender, religious, secular or cultural divisions for poltical power purposes is made all the easier by the demonization of the peoples' sense of home, cultural slight and magnification of differences.

If you want to find division, one need only look for it and the same holds true for unity.

You can't hug your brother or sister with one arm while pushing them away with the other.

If you truly want the South or any region for that matter to get better, that should be the focus, getting better, commonalities and not the red state, blue state, dog whistle B.S.

Otherwise you are playing in to the hands of the Karl Rove types; they thrive on divide and conquer, it's all they know.

[AtheistCrusader]

196. I can't help it.

For a people to poll overwhelming in favor of banning by force of law, interracial marriage? Yes, I consider them the enemy.

It's not a dog whistle, if I have to wonder, is my wife white enough for these people to let me be, should I happen to move there for work, or pass through the area for whatever reason.

These are the people who would, even if he had his driver's license with him, jail my son on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant, until my home state's Secretary of State's Office surrenders a copy of his birth certificate. Actual US citizens have been deported to mexico via this mechanism.

When I have to consider an entire region of the country of which I am a citizen, 'dangerous to visit', sorry, that goes beyond cultural inclusiveness, and attempts at unity. I understand your point, and I wish I could follow you there, but I cannot ignore a potential and obvious threat to the safety of my family.

And that's really just incredibly sad, isn't it? In America.

[Uncle Joe]

198. Your post makes my point

an "overwhelming" number of the people in the South don't favor banning by force of law, interracial marriage, natiioniwde views against interracial marriage are changing even in the South.

The numbers on this first poll are even better when it comes to white/latino/hispanic marriages.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.gallup.com/poll/28417/most-americans-approve-interracial-marriages.aspx

Most Americans Approve of Interracial Marriages



________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This poll is an example of what I'm talking about when I speak of what you or anybody focuses on as being critical in forming perspectives, in this case a negative but even in this instance an overwhelming majority of Southerners aren't opposed to interracial marriage it's a of "plurality" of Republicans, 46%.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/poll-46-of-missississippi-republicans-think-interracial-marriage-should-be-illegal/

Poll: 46% Of Mississippi Republicans Think Interracial Marriage Should Be Illegal

"In a PPP poll released Thursday, a 46% plurality of registered Republican voters said they thought interracial marriage was not just wrong, but that it should be illegal. 40% said interracial marriage should be legal."


________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This poll takes the big picture, long term view

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-trends-in-interracial-marriage-52318347.html

New Trends in Interracial Marriage

Nevertheless, it is clear that acceptance of interracial unions is on
the rise. In 1972, five years after all laws in the US against interracial
marriage had been declared unconstitutional, 39% of Americans still favored
laws against racial intermarriage. This percentage has steadily dropped
over time, so that by 2002 only 10% of Americans surveyed in the General
Social Survey said they favored laws against interracial marriage. Young
adults are more favorably disposed to interracial marriage than their
elders: only 4% of young adults surveyed in 2002 favored laws against
interracial marriage. Another sign of changing times: Barack Obama's
parents were married in Hawaii in 1960, and at that time their marriage
would have been illegal in more than half of US states, because they were
an interracial couple.


________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


This final poll and the wording in the column makes my point as to how whether you focus on the positve or negative in forming misconceptions or stereotypes about an entire region which are then exploited by the very people, you don't want in power.

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/03/ppp-poll-gop-voters-in-al-ms-think-obama-is-muslim-unsure-about-interracial-marriage.php?ref=fpnewsfeed

Poll: GOP Voters In Deep South Think Obama Is Muslim, Unsure On Interracial Marriage

"Interracial marriage laws were overturned by the Supreme Court in 1967, but a significant minority of Mississippi and Alabama apparently still long for their return, or are at least ambivalent about the idea. In Alabama, 67 percent of respondents said interracial marriage should be allowed, but 21 percent said it should be illegal and another 12 percent were not sure. Mississippi Republican voters were even more divided: Only 52 percent said such marriages should be legal, versus 29 percent who said they should be banned and 17 percent who were unsure."

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


That's only the Republicans' perspective on this final poll, it doesn't include Democrats which would no doubt improve those numbers even more, having said that if a President wins an election by 67% that's not "unsure" that's a mandate.

That number of 67% approval of Alabama "Republicans" exceeds the national approval of everybody in that first poll in 2002.

No doubt parts of the South has its' problems being more conservative and slower to adapt to changing condtions in a more positive, inclusive manner but the "entire region" isn't "dangerous to visit."

The South is changing just like the rest of the nation but I believe if people truly want to speed that process along in favorable a direction, then commonality should be the primary focus versus diifferences.

Peace to you,

[tjwash]

167. 52 percent of GOP voters in Mississippi said they think Obama is a Muslim...

...and another 36 percent are not sure.

The demographic in the land of cotton is certainly not helping your argument out any.

BTW...born and raised in Tennessee here. Live in California now. The south is great place to be from.

[DonCoquixote]

170. Florida chimes in

Ok, I was born in Jersey, moved to Florida.

First things:
One: there are plenty of rednecks north of the mason Dixon line, many of whom are as pathetic or worse as any in the "Deep South." Neither Chris Christie, Scott Brown, Michael Bloomberg, nor Grover Norquist nor Rick Santorum nor Michelle Bachmann nor Joe Liebermann came out of the ether. The only difference is that up north, the Clergy that back and support backward solutions are often Catholic as opposed to Protestant.

Two: the Southern states have produced hard core, uncompromising liberals. Let's take Texas: Molly Ivins, Jim Hightower, Kris Kristofferson, Ann Richards, Willie Nelson. Nobody is going to accuse any of those folk of being weak liberals and maintain credibility, as they have all been known to be bold and outspoken, and frankly, all of them are left of the Clintons.

Three: Just like in the rest of the country, the cities are liberal, the rural, conservative. Try to find ONE southern city (note I did not say suburbs) that does not vote solid blue. New Orleans, Houston, Tampa, all blue as blue can get, with Democratic mayors. Said cities often become the punching bags for the southern states, as the politicos play the game of "Let's see how we can hurt those brown people more!"

So, for people who blithely chime off about the South, or who ever election year say "we can't we kick the south out" I say this, those who are liberal down there take more hits for the cause than many, and when you open fire on us, you do not help. We helped put North Carolina and Florida in the BLUE Column, not thanks to many save for Howard Dean.

Now, none of this denies that yes, there is a culture down here in the South that has needed a change since 1865, the culture where a bunch of plantation owners get to act like they are the source of virtue, and that we should be honored to light their cigars. There IS a culture where Pastors act like local aristocrats. However, the evil you laugh at is creeping up in your Northern cities. Do not make the mistake canada made, where they were so busy pulling up their nose at "those Merkins" that they failed to see that Stephen Harper was crawling right into their nostrils. Yes, they all say they hate Harper on here, but did they give us any slack when we said we were trying to get Bush out? In either case, the right wing, from Merkel in Germany to Harper in Canada to GOP in New York are all circling their wagomns around us...we must all hang together, or we all hang separately.

[patricia92243]

171. Very well said!! n/t

[Logical]

175. I live in Kansas and admit we are a shithole of GOP idiots. At least I have guts to admit it.

[many a good man]

176. Some of the best libs/progs I know live in deep red territory north or south

They may be relatively rare but they more than make up for it in spirit and intellect!

[bvar22]

177. A DURec for The Beautiful South!

The South is BEAUTIFUL,
and belongs to us all.
Its a shame to just abandon it.

We heat with a wood stove,
drink spring water from the back yard,
produce a good percentage of our food,
and never, EVER shovel snow.

My Wife & I moved to the Rural South from a Big Blue Northern City in 2006.
We LOVE it here.

---Starkraven & bvar22
Turning The South Blue

If you Hate the South,
please don't come here.
We already have enough bigots.
The rest of you are invited over for Fresh Green Beans & Cornbread!

[stonecutter357]

201. K&R...

[Bosso 63]

179. I have deep roots in the north and the south. Its complicated.

I have ancestors that fought for both sides of the Civil war, and I will say that assholes live on both sides of the Mason Dixon line. That being said, people in the North often don't realize how "present" the civil war is in the south. The war is not ancient history to many Southerners.
If you have roots there, you may know exactly where blood was spilled, and often your relationship to it.
In the late 80's, I was driving through Atlanta with a friend of mine from Minnesota, and he made a commented about the number of Confederate flags he saw on cars and said, "Why the hell are these people so pissed?" Well I said, " The Union did burn the city to the ground". That fact was news to him.
On the other hand, I have heard some of my family members say incredibly racist things in a casual way like they were talking about the weather. My attempts to challenge those comments were greeted with the kind of response you would expect if you took a shit in the punch bowl.
Now that live in the North, I have noticed that I still hear racist comments from time to time, but they tend to be more a little more nuanced and covert.

[SouthernLiberal]

180. Welcome!

It will be good to have one more liberal here in SC!

Okay, just kidding. I think I live in one of the most liberal part of South Carolina. Still, even though my state representatives are Democrats, that doesn't spread far enough.

[savalez]

185. I agree! Will do.

[valerief]

187. How come all your congresspersons are such assholes?

Wouldn't have anything to do with vote counts, would it?

[Daemonaquila]

191. Oh, piffle.

There's no southern hate here. Nobody gets down on left southerners. But the South? It deserves the rep. I live in Texas, and I'm embrace being a Texan. BUT, we definitely deserve our rep, as a state. Folks down here think Bush, Perry, transvaginal ultrasounds, and voter photo IDs are a good idea just for starters. What about Mississippi, with nearly 50% of rethugs wishing they could go back to the "good old days" of miscegenation laws? The problem with stereotypes is the rude, anti-PC truth that they are based in some reality.

Let's stop worrying about our hurt feelings, and worry about the problems of living among cavemen.

[JDPriestly]

193. Thanks for all the good things you do, backwoodsbob.

It's especially tough to defend liberal Southerners on a day like today when Alabama and Mississippi voted for Santorum. Santorum isn't a Southerner but his reactionary opinions appeal to everything that is wretched in the southern mentality.

I criticize Southerners as one who lived in the South for years and experienced first hand how it can be beautiful but also how the people can be incredibly hateful and ugly -- and shockingly nonchalant about their cruelty.

What we give to the world, we get back. You are giving kindness and hope, and you should get that back.

But you have to understand that the stereotype of the bigoted Southerner is not about the exceptions like you. It did not grow out of the minds of bigoted people in the rest of the country. That stereotype has a basis in fact and the experience of many, many people who suffered from the bigotry of Southerners in the past. While the stereotype is less accurate now than it was 60 years ago, it is still, unfortunately, pretty true from what I can tell.

Sorry that this problem hurts a good person like you. But there are just too few people like you in the South. I know that from my own experience.

[solarman350]

195. The Old South is rick santorum's base....

Been there, seen and experienced that, don't need nor EVER want ANYMORE of it either. Ever wonder why there's nothing in Georgia named after General Sherman? Hmmmmm.

[adigal]

199. You are going to have your hands full in SC

I have pulled thousands of dogs and puppies from the south to the northeast in the last 5 years. Yes, thousands. Rehomed all by 8, who I still have because they are problem children. I saw thousands get killed because no rescues had room for them. Puppies, newborns, young healthy labs and hounds, it just about killed me. Literally. I had to stop. What bugs me about the south is the willful ignorance about politics, taxes, dog spay and neuter - it seems like everything. They just don't care.

When I started dog rescue I said I would not step foot into a southern state and give anyone my tourist dollars until the legislation promotes strong spay and neuter laws. And I haven't. And I won't. I wouldn't live in the south for 50 million dollars. I think it is hard for progressives to live there, and I really feel for them.

Best to you.