Dear President Obama, It's a clusterfuck and it's way past time to pack it in.

[cali]

Honestly, do you think that we can "win" in Afghanistan? I'm not sure what winning there means to you but for the sake of argument let's just say that it means that Afghanistan becomes a functional democracy where all, including women are provided basic civil rights and the country isn't dominated by the Taliban or harboring those who we deem as terrorists. Really, does it look like we're even the tiniest bit close to that after over a decade? No, of course not.

You sir, are an educated and intelligent man. You know the history of Afghanistan and the failure of other nation's to impose their will on this country. It just doesn't work.

So why are we still there? If it's for political reasons, well, that's beneath contempt.

It's time to leave Afghanistan to the Afghan people. It's time to stop dominating their country. It's time to stop engaging with the ever so corrupt regime in power there. It's time to stop killing civilians.

It's past time to leave.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Absolutely right.

[exboyfil]

2. I got to imagine that the Afghan justice system moves much

more quickly than ours. Will they wait two-three years for a final resolution, and, if that resolution was diminished capacity, boy what will happen then?


We have to get out ASAP.

[napoleon_in_rags]

3. The definition of insanity...

Doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results. What's up with those new talking iPads? I wonder if you could program those for Dari and Pashto, so illiterate people could use them by talking. Then include some kind of apps that let people collaborate on basic agricultural and trading, air drop them. It sounds absolutely insane to give Afghanistan people free iPads, but the sad truth is that it would have cost far less, and as far as modernizing them, it seems it would have a better chance of working simply because its never been tried, while conquering them militarily has been tried over and over again without positive results.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. I think this is a brilliant idea. Truly.

And maybe a few other little trinkets like backyard or village wind turbines &/or photovoltaic panels to give them greater local control over their power supplies (ya gotta be able to charge those iPads).

[napoleon_in_rags]

12. Yeah, the solar chargers are of course a must.

As well as radio towers for network connectivity. Closed network set up sensitive to cultural values, of course. Let the network access grow with the people's values over decades. No nudie ladies or rock music access in what they drop.

[Canuckistanian]

13. One problem with those cell phone towers

The Taliban would blow them up because they represent progress and decadent Western thought.

It's more in their interest for Afghans to remain ignorant and dependent.

[Lucky Luciano]

15. Yep. Doing these sorts of things successfully requires the anti-science people to have no power. nt

[malaise]

4. 100% correct

Bring the troops home

[CAPHAVOC]

30. I bid 110% correct.

Leave the guns and get out of dodge. They will kill themselves for us. Hard to win Hearts and Minds if they have no Mind or Heart.

[bvar22]

38. I heard Rush make the same claim about Afghans 10 years ago,

...he said they were stupid and had no humanity.

Do you really believe the Afghans have no Mind or Heart?
It is THAT attitude that allows the atrocities to continue.

[CAPHAVOC]

39. They are 7th century

They torture women and cut off their heads. Medieval. The national game is played with a dead goat head. Men on horseback fight over it. Most are illiterate. We should pack up and bust out ASAP. Why are we there? I am for rebuilding America not ME countries. I don't care who said what. It is time to get the troops home. No I am not for winning their Hearts and Minds...period. It keeps getting invaded then the invaders get buyers remorse and evacuate. It is like the Bates Hotel.

[bvar22]

44. I agree with your statement about living in the 7th Century,

...but strongly disagree with your statement that they have no Hearts or Minds.

I am on record in the archives of DU as opposing the "Just War" invasion of Afghanistan.
The ONLY thing we should have dropped on them were Satellite TVs, Big Macs, and dollar bills.
It would have been a HELL of a lot cheaper,
and both the Afghans and ourselves would have been better off.

As far as Bin Laden and his band of Saudi outlaws paying rent to some tribal War Lord to hide in his desert,
that was strictly a matter for International Law Enforcement and Seal Team 6.

[CAPHAVOC]

46. Big Macs!

No doubt. And Hot Dogs. The best idea yet. The Atomic Burger Bomb! I bet it would work. Send in the B2 Burger Wing. They would think it is Manna from Heaven.

[cbayer]

5. Well done. Welcome back, cali.

[leveymg]

6. Even if there was once some kind of legit "nation building" mission, it's over.

If we did a good job, it should work as designed to give the Afghans "ownership". If it doesn't work, staying longer will just make things worse.

[Booster]

7. I couldn't agree more. But didn't Mr. Obama say recently he was going to start transitioning our

troops out of there? I sent his statement to my nephew, who is in Afghanistan doing contract work, and told him under no circumstances should he stay over there if the troops come home. Mr. Obama made the statement after those stupid soldiers had their little bonfire with the Koran. How stupid can you get. Then add this latest thing to it and you get a whole lot of really angry people. I can't say that I blame them. It would be like if they sent their military to Alabama and had a bonfire with the Bible. All Hell would break loose. Yes. It's time for them to come home, or as you say it's past time to leave.

[russspeakeasy]

8. I think he's getting some bad advice.

[bhikkhu]

10. Getting out of Afghanistan by 2014 is the plan

...and has been for awhile now, as we're on the drawing-down side of the promised post-election surge. I suppose things could be quicker, but I don't think many now doubt that the plan to get out of Afghanistan will be followed through on. Personally, I don't care what kind of narrative they might spin around it, as long as they do it.

[woo me with science]

11. And Iran and Syria beckon...

[font color=blue]"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.
-Eisenhower, 1961[/font color]


Absolutely we need to be out of Afghanistan, but our goals also need to be larger than that. One of the ways the MIC succeeds is by focusing our attention on this conflict or that conflict. We need to have our eyes on the entire octopus.

The Military Industrial Complex is core to the goals and profit of the one percent, and the one percent have purchased our government and our electoral process.

These military decisions are much larger than the President and are driven by corporate money. The military industrial complex is a core element of the profit and power of the one percent, and it will continue to grow until we remove the influence of corporate money from politics. This is why foreign policy does not significantly change from one administration to the next and why the MIC will be protected at all costs.

I don't know if we will leave Afghanistan or not, but we can be certain that carefully crafted urgent issues in that part of the world will drive the continued growth of the MIC, whether in Afghanistan or elsewhere. The coming wars, when they happen, will be all about driving more nations into debt, restructuring political systems and imposing austerity, assuming control of global resources and an increasingly global workforce, and consolidating political and financial power for the one percent. Wars for profit can be both economic and military, and we are living through an alarming ramping up of both in this decade. It is no coincidence that the only potential solutions being trumpeted for the economic crisis in Europe involve nations' ceding more of their power to global corporate interests. America is moving toward austerity and vastly increased corporate control, too, and further MIC demands will help speed the restructuring of our way of life that we already see underway in so many ways.

It is important to keep our eye on the big picture. There are always drawdowns and promises of drawdowns in this or that place before elections. What is important are overall trends. We have seen some horrifying trends since 9/11, and the drumbeats are only escalating now. The purchase of our government by the one percent is not benign. Corporations have no conscience and no values. They exist solely for profit, and if profit can be made by blood and suffering, it will be.

America needs to wake up and Occupy, because we are sleepwalking in a very dangerous direction.

[Paper Roses]

14. Everyone I talk to agrees with your statement. Out now before things get even worse.

It seems that the Middle East problems are one of the two main topics of conversation as of late.
The economy and the wars. Stop the wars, cure our problems at home.

To add to that, let us keep our noses out of any new Middle East conflicts.

Why is no-one in Washington listening? We're tired of war.
Tired of fighting, tired of paying with life and treasure.

[Fool Count]

16. Well, while we are at it, let's use this opportunity and also decide to leave Syria

to the Syrian people, shall we? Should be a much easier task, as US didn't even start
bombing them yet.

[BlueIris]

17. Afghanistan is a travesty.

It is also the single most important reason Obama was put in office. It will exist as long as he is president.

[Skittles]

25. ? how was that the most important reason?

I call BS

[progressoid]

18. You clearly don't understand how foreign policy works. It's like a game of chess.

3-D chess if you will. etc. etc. etc.

- Insert apologist rant here -

k/r

[DefenseLawyer]

19. That pipeline's not going to build itself.

Errrrrrrrr I mean liberty! freedom! fight em over there so we don't have to fight em over here! freedom!

[OnyxCollie]

28. And there's no way we'll walk away from a trillion dollars in mineral deposits.

We gotta give people elections! Democracy! Purple fingers!

[DiehardLiberal]

42. BINGO! That's the real reason we are there. nt

[Logical]

20. And costing billions a month!!!!!!

[sad sally]

21. Look out for the withdrawal plan being put together...

"... top Pentagon officials are now mulling over: to put whatever U.S. elite special operations forces remain in Afghanistan after 2014 under CIA control. The reason? Once they are so lodged, even though their missions wouldn’t change, they would officially become "spies" and whoever’s running Washington then will be able to swear, with complete candor, that no U.S. troops remain in Afghanistan. Even better, the CIA is conveniently run by former Afghan War commander David Petraeus and the U.S. public would no longer have to be informed about "funding or operations" for those non-troops. Now, that’s how a mature democracy makes the trains run on time!"

http://original.antiwar.com/engelhardt/2012/03/08/green-on-blue/

This plan could happen anytime (even before 2014) and nobody would know.

[StarsInHerHair]

22. just drop food & medicine-no more soldiers, mercenaries, bombs, predator drones

reaper drones, etc. Just drop unexpired food & medicine-it's MUCH less expensive than what the U.S. is doing now.

[CAPHAVOC]

31. Too simple. And too cheap.

We have to spend trillions. Get with the program.

[SwampG8r]

23. and burn every poppy field before we go

the evil the men of afghanistan force on the women is financed by opium
destroy it all and salt the earth beneath it

[Rosa Luxemburg]

24. John McCain won't like that

[Comrade Grumpy]

41. Just curious. What then happens to the starving peasants of all genders?

Millions of Afghans depend on the poppy for an income. It's the motor of the economy, which is why we have left it largely alone.

It's a cruel paradox for the West: You can have your war on drugs, or you can have your war on terror, but you can't have both in Afghanistan. Ratcheting up the war on drugs pushes people to the Taliban. Leaving the poppy fields alone guarantees hundreds of millions in taxes and fees for them to buy shiny new weapons to kill more NATO troops. That's a real dilemma.

[applegrove]

26. Canada quit Afghanistan but stayed to teach a new generation of soldiers. Perhaps it is

time for the USA to do the same?

[chknltl]

27. "When vi'lence causes silence we must be mistaken"

"When vi'lence causes silence we must be mistaken"* but as you can plainly see, not all are silent Mr. President. We have it in our hands, and with your help, we can educate the mistaken. We can make this nation whole again. Do you remember these words Mr. President: "yes we can"!??? PLEASE Mr. President, please say those words with us, "yes we can". Together we can end the fear and the hate. Together we can stop the "vi'lence". yes we can. *(Dolores O'Riordan)

[madokie]

29. Stop killing and start trading with them

We can't lift our boat by sinking others, it doesn't work that way. Be kind and others will respond in kind. Our whole middle east policy is wrong and has been for longer than I've been around.
Bring our precious children home and quit making enemies.

[LeftinOH]

32. Our mission has become a defensive one: Defending ourselves from

local reprisals over a multitude of f*ck-ups.. from Kuran burning to rogue killing sprees to the all-too-familiar 'collatoral damage'. We brought a train wreck to Afghanistan.

[DLevine]

33. Absolutely agree. We should have been out a long time ago. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

34. We should never have been there.

[DLevine]

35. Agreed. n/t

[FedUp_Queer]

36. According to Panetta.

“The reason we are there, senator, is because our mission is to dismantle, destroy, and defeat al Qaida and their terrorist allies,” Panetta said. “Our ultimate goal here has to be an Afghanistan that can control and secure itself and make sure that it can never again become a safe haven where terrorists can plan attacks,”.

http://nbcpolitics.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/28/10532454-afghanistan-unrest-stirs-worries-but-doesnt-shake-commitment

"I think at most, we're looking at maybe 50 to 100 [al Qaeda operatives in Afghanistan], maybe less," Panetta said on ABC News This Week on June 27, 2010. "It's in that vicinity. There's no question that the main location of al-Qaeda is in tribal areas of Pakistan."

http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2011/04/how_many_al_qaeda_operatives_a.php

There were about 91,000 U.S. troops in Afghanistan at the end of 2011. Obama has pledged to withdraw 23,000 troops by the end of this summer and most combat troops by the end of 2014 as NATO hands over security responsibility to the Afghans.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/11/v-print/2688622/major-questions-surrounding-the.html

So...we have anywhere from 1,820 to 910 troops per "al Qaeda operative" in Afghanistan...and that's conservative.

And...why are we there? Bueller? Bueller?

[_ed_]

37. Why? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Because defense contractors own our government. Like financial reform, drug law reform, and a host of other issues, corporations have bought both of our political parties. That's why there's "consensus" among elected Dems and Rs about these issues: neverending war, neverending drug war, no regulation of the financial sector.

[FedUp_Queer]

43. And the winner is?

Osama bin Laden. We are a bankrupt country having sold out to the monied interests.

[Taverner]

40. I just hope we don't get the "Send off" they gave the Russians

When they left the Afghans were shooting at them right and left

[TBF]

45. Good OP Cali -

and nice to hear your voice again. Hope you're feeling better.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

47. It started as, always was, and still is, a war fought for "tough guy" PR and politics.

We lost. Get out. Get over it.

[ellisonz]

48. Good to see you posting! n/t

[midnight]

49. Could not agree more with your last sentence. It's way past time to leave this poverty stricken

country....