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Sat Nov 30, 2013, 09:47 AM

Interesting point that Jon Steward made concerning Hobby Lobby, China, and abortion

Last edited Sun Dec 1, 2013, 08:05 AM - Edit history (1)

If Hobby Lobby, as a corporation is opposed to abortion and providing contraceptive coverage to their employees Health Insurance plans, based on moral convictions....how do they reconcile the fact that they support the Chinese govt through all the products they purchase and sell here in America? With millions of abortions the govt MANDATEs and mandatory contraceptive use? Moral convictions stop at the profit line?

Hell, I think this a great opportunity to place some moral responsibility on the anti-abortion crowd who buys products and services not only from Hobby Lobby, but Walmart and all other corporations that have set up shop in China....when you make a purchase you are directly supporting the regimes that forces abortions and contraceptives on their citizens.

Time to make the anti-abortion folks take a stand on their morals and ethics....

82 replies, 9881 views

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Reply Interesting point that Jon Steward made concerning Hobby Lobby, China, and abortion (Original post)
beachbum bob Nov 2013 OP
Turbineguy Nov 2013 #1
Heather MC Nov 2013 #36
trumad Nov 2013 #2
progressoid Nov 2013 #9
Martin Eden Nov 2013 #11
12AngryBorneoWildmen Nov 2013 #23
QuestForSense Nov 2013 #66
Cha Dec 2013 #71
Moonwalk Dec 2013 #70
Sherman A1 Dec 2013 #80
JaneyVee Nov 2013 #3
Fla Dem Nov 2013 #4
DonViejo Nov 2013 #10
earthside Nov 2013 #5
The Blue Flower Nov 2013 #19
Voice for Peace Nov 2013 #28
nikto Nov 2013 #65
pangaia Nov 2013 #33
earthside Nov 2013 #43
pangaia Nov 2013 #44
Burf-_- Nov 2013 #61
calimary Nov 2013 #68
kentuck Nov 2013 #6
safeinOhio Nov 2013 #8
tsuki Nov 2013 #56
Burf-_- Dec 2013 #82
loudsue Nov 2013 #7
warrior1 Nov 2013 #12
Martin Eden Nov 2013 #13
Drunken Irishman Nov 2013 #14
Sheri Nov 2013 #15
Scuba Nov 2013 #16
kmlisle Nov 2013 #17
Major Nikon Nov 2013 #20
benld74 Nov 2013 #27
Major Nikon Nov 2013 #30
NewJeffCT Nov 2013 #35
benld74 Nov 2013 #59
NewJeffCT Nov 2013 #62
dlwickham Nov 2013 #67
NewJeffCT Nov 2013 #39
NewJeffCT Nov 2013 #37
jberryhill Nov 2013 #46
ananda Nov 2013 #18
Tanuki Nov 2013 #21
otohara Nov 2013 #22
drm604 Nov 2013 #24
jberryhill Nov 2013 #29
drm604 Nov 2013 #34
jberryhill Nov 2013 #38
drm604 Nov 2013 #50
Niceguy1 Nov 2013 #52
drm604 Nov 2013 #55
BlueCaliDem Dec 2013 #78
niyad Nov 2013 #25
JEB Nov 2013 #26
Enthusiast Nov 2013 #31
DeschutesRiver Nov 2013 #32
Flatulo Nov 2013 #40
Tikki Nov 2013 #41
Bozvotros Dec 2013 #72
Justice Nov 2013 #42
progressoid Nov 2013 #45
NBachers Nov 2013 #47
TheDebbieDee Nov 2013 #63
beachbum bob Dec 2013 #75
The Traveler Nov 2013 #48
freshwest Nov 2013 #49
weissmam Nov 2013 #51
valerief Nov 2013 #53
glinda Nov 2013 #54
The Wizard Nov 2013 #57
beachbum bob Dec 2013 #77
riqster Nov 2013 #58
japple Nov 2013 #60
beachbum bob Dec 2013 #74
BlueCaliDem Dec 2013 #79
nikto Nov 2013 #64
beachbum bob Dec 2013 #76
dlwickham Nov 2013 #69
avaistheone1 Dec 2013 #73
Quantess Dec 2013 #81

Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 09:50 AM

1. Because money tops principles.

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Response to Turbineguy (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:14 PM

36. Because they are only Anti-Abortion for white women

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 09:53 AM

2. Who is John Steward?

I've heard of a Jon Stewart....

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Response to trumad (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:24 AM

9. The person that takes care of the toilets.

The john Steward.

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Response to progressoid (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:28 AM

11. LOL

You made me laugh

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #11)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:11 AM

23. Me 2!

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Response to progressoid (Reply #9)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:30 PM

66. Love that toilet humor!

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Response to progressoid (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 12:28 AM

71. Good job! nm

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Response to trumad (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 12:02 AM

70. Green Lantern.

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Response to trumad (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 04:47 PM

80. Sad

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 09:56 AM

3. That John Steward [sic] always making a good point.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 09:57 AM

4. Made the same comment this past Wed Nov 27th



All of Hobby Lobby's junk merchandise is made in China, a country of anti-Christianity and forced abortions. How do you say HYPOCRISY!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4101063

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Response to Fla Dem (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:25 AM

10. Not "anti-Christianity," anti-religion yes but, not limited to being anti-Christian. eom

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:07 AM

5. This needs to be spread.

Good for Jon Stewart.

As is typical, unfortunately, in our corporate media the unmitigated hypocrisy of Hobby Lobby and the Green family hasn't been noted. Even the MSNBC discussions about this case that I have seen thus far have failed to bring-up the biggest fact that undercuts Hobby Lobby's alleged 'religious' principles: they are now, in fact, funding abortion and contraception.

My previous post --- and I think the ideas in this message need to be spread broadly -- Hobby Lobby and the Greens need to be called out on this!


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4095212

Hobby Lobby is a huge funder of abortion, contraception.

Look at it this way ...

Hobby Lobby buys and imports massive quantities of products made in Communist China. Indeed, a large portion of the arts, crafts and decor products it sells are made exclusively for Hobby Lobby by Chinese laborers.

Of course, these sweat shops in China for the most part are run by or are in partnership with the government of Communist China.

Hobby Lobby really is paying a lot of money to support the Chinese government and its one-child policy (the recent announcement of a change was nominal) that essentially mandates abortion and all kinds of contraception.

So, by shopping at Hobby Lobby, you are actually enabling and encouraging forced abortion and contraception for hundreds and thousands of Chinese women. Ironic, uh?

All to the point that Hobby Lobby owner/founder/CEO David Green is one of the biggest hypocrites in the United States. It seems that he gets 'religion' only when he thinks it might affect his bottom-line.

Indeed, Green infamously wrote either last year or earlier this year that: "... honoring God is more important than turning a profit."

David Green is a LIAR.

Green and Hobby Lobby are entirely dependent upon turning a profit by selling Chinese-made products -- products made under a regime that officially is atheist and pro-abortion.

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:43 AM

28. I sent them a nice note

about saving Chinese babies.
thanks for the suggestion.

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Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 09:01 PM

65. DONE!

Done.

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Response to earthside (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:01 PM

33. I just emailed customern service

And, I hope you don't mind my blatant plagerism, but here is a copy of my email.
TITLE-
"Working for the Lord"

"I have a question with which I hope you can help me.
If, as your website says, you are "Honoring the Lord in all we do by operating the company in a manner consistent with biblical principles." And, if you do not want to pay for insurance for women for birth control and abortions, then why do you buy merchandise from Communist China, thereby supporting the Chinese government and its wide-spread one-child policy that essentially mandates abortion and all kinds of contraception?
That seems pretty hypocritical to me. Or is it just that the bottom line is really what counts?"

I was going to give you (or Jon Stewart) credit for the part of your great post, but figured that whomever read my email would have no idea who 'earthside' or Jon Stewart are.

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Response to pangaia (Reply #33)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:42 PM

43. A worthy effort.

Of course, you can't tell a religious fanatic/hypocrite anything that challenges their delusion -- they'll look at you quizzically like you are speaking in a foreign language.

But it sure seems to me that there is no way out of this Hobby Lobby double standard for the Green family.
Of course, the thing is that Hobby Lobby is open to the general public, hires employees from the general public and, therefore, must obey the laws in this country just like any other business. Carving out an exception for themselves because the owners have a particular religious belief is ultimately unfair and bigoted against others of different beliefs.

Still, the Supreme Court being what is is these days, I wouldn't be surprised that Hobby Lobby gets the ruling it wants --- man, will that open a Pandora's Box.

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Response to earthside (Reply #43)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:51 PM

44. I never even heard of Hobby Lobby until today.

But then I don't have a smart phone either.

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Response to earthside (Reply #5)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 07:26 PM

61. not that Atheist's or Pro-Choice people are bad things...

still a brilliant recognition by Stewart.

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Response to Burf-_- (Reply #61)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:29 PM

68. Welcome to DU, Burf-_-!

Glad you're here! Certainly they're NOT bad things! And yes, more brilliance from Jon Stewart. Glad he's on OUR side!

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:13 AM

6. Excellent point!

I would like to see them defend it.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #6)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:21 AM

8. Very easy to defend…...

when you worship two gods.

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Response to safeinOhio (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 03:07 PM

56. They only worship one, Mammon, they give lip service to the other. nt

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Response to tsuki (Reply #56)

Wed Dec 4, 2013, 01:46 PM

82. sick burn.....

ooooo ....i don't know if there's enough bactine in the world. But maybe enough moonshine, perhaps. Cheers.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:19 AM

7. And it seems to me the LAWYERS should be using that as part of their argument.

How can these companies claim ANY moral authority about birth control when they are SUPPORTING the Chinese economy and laws, but not ours?

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:32 AM

13. Anyone opposed to both contraception and abortion ...

... needs their head examined.

That includes the pope. If he wants the Catholic church to join the 21st century (or the 20th century for that matter) he'll endorse contraception.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:40 AM

14. John Steward of The Weekly Show fame?



I keed.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:43 AM

15. jon stewart rocks. nt

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:45 AM

16. Jon gets his best zingers from Democratic Underground.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:46 AM

17. The One child Policy is changing

According to http://news.yahoo.com/china-one-child-law-change-small-crucial-experts-115730650.html

The Policy experiment is creating a demographic time bomb with an unbalance between males and females in the Chinese Population creating a generation of Bachelors.

The Chinese government and Hobby Lobby seem to share the attitude that they know what is best for women and their families and they should not be trusted to make their own decisions. Of course China did it out of fear of Famine while Hobby Lobby is intent on imposing their religious beliefs on their employees and probably society as a whole.

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Response to kmlisle (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:58 AM

20. Interestingly the one child policy was starting to have the reverse effect

The Chinese in rural areas wanted boys for obvious reasons, but girls are more desirable in urban areas because the family didn't have to save until adulthood to provide a home to a son so he could be married. I think eventually they would have reached a point of equilibrium but with no threat of famine the one child policy has outlived its usefulness.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:43 AM

27. Males take care of the parents

Females leave their homes to live with their husbands families. China created a statistical anomaly of 118-101 male-female ratio in certain areas. When policy was created its goal was population control not taking a millennium of culture into consideration

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Response to benld74 (Reply #27)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:48 AM

30. Actually males and females take care of their parents in China

They have tremendous social pressures to do so. If you don't take care of your parents, you will be ostracized by society. This is true for men and women.

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #30)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:09 PM

35. this is correct

children take care of their parents, be they male or female.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #35)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 04:53 PM

59. I stand corrected

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Response to benld74 (Reply #59)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 07:39 PM

62. My sister-in-law

takes care of her parents back in China. And, I'm sure my wife would as well if she were back there.

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Response to benld74 (Reply #27)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:13 PM

67. they didn't factor in traditional beliefs that women are worth less than men

and that female babies would be less desirable

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:23 PM

39. The one child policy had an effect on girls that were born, though

In the past, if a Chinese family had (for example) 10 children, 5 boys and 5 girls, the family would spend all their resources on the boys for their education and betterment. With the one child policy, the girls that were born got all the resources from the parents (and grandparents)

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Response to kmlisle (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:18 PM

37. It's only a limited change

you can now have 2 children if either of your parents was an only child. There were exceptions before, but now it is extended to most people. You can still get 2 sons if you want 2 sons.

A lot of wealthier Chinese already got around the laws anyhow - the fine for having a second child was huge for poor and working class Chinese, but for the newly wealthy upper class and upper middle class types, it's like paying a speeding ticket.

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Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #37)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 01:05 PM

46. Yes and no

Beyond the fine, there are social controls. It can be difficult to advance in one's career, obtain permits and other advantages.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 10:48 AM

18. Has the OT Senex god ever been rational?

..

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:02 AM

21. Maybe they share Pat Robertson's view that abortion is evil unless

it happens in China
http://www.salon.com/2001/04/18/blue_48/
Pat said:
"If every family over there was allowed to have three or four children, the population would be completely unsustainable … I think that right now they’re doing what they have to do. I don’t agree with the forced abortion, but I don’t think the United States needs to interfere with what they’re doing internally in this regard.”

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:04 AM

22. I Said This Years Ago

hypocrites with their junk from one child China.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:30 AM

24. You can contact their customer service department and ask them that very question.

http://www.hobbylobby.com/customer_service/contact_us_form.cfm?company=1&addr=1&dept=1&mypage=1

We can post their replies here. I'm curious as to how they'll try to spin it. I suspect that they'll try to ignore the question, but if they're asked often enough they may have to make some sort of public response.

It's difficult for me to see their behavior as anything other than hypocritical. It certainly gives the appearance that their real motivations are purely mercenary.

I wonder if a lawyer could argue that this shows that they aren't really sincere in their beliefs and that therefore they should not be granted any religious exemptions.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #24)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:47 AM

29. So a company which IS sincere can get one?

So, in other words, you would want the law to grant all kinds of bizarre religious exemptions to health insurance provided to employees of corporations who provide services, and thus don't source any raw materials from China, or to, say mining companies, or corporations which otherwise are domestically-sourced?

Uh, no. I'd rather not have the law depend on some measure of "sincerity" of the corporation in question.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #29)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:03 PM

34. Yes, I said that.



Of course not. All companies should have to follow the law, regardless of their beliefs. But attacking their sincerity could hurt their bottom line and make them, and perhaps others, back off on their attacks.

In any case, I truly do question the sincerity of Hobby Lobby, and stating so is not the same as saying that those who actually are sincere deserve an exemption.

If they truly are insincere then there's no reason not to use that in a legal battle. Winning on that ground does not mean dismissing other grounds in future cases.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #34)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:23 PM

38. That's not the way law works

This case is at the second appellate level.

If the company loses "because they are insincere" then the principle left standing is that they could do it if they were sincere.

However, the question of their "sincerity" is not a factual issue of record in this appeal anyway, but nobody is looking for a ruling limited to the factual context of this company's sincerity or lack thereof.

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #38)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 01:38 PM

50. Okay. I'm not a lawyer so I shouldn't be speaking to the legal aspects.

But it could still be helpful in the overall fight for public opinion to point out their apparent hypocrisy and insincerity. Maybe it would give pause to others who are considering fighting the law but also have contradictory behavior.

As I said, we should contact their customer support department and ask them about their hypocrisy.

Why do they purchase from a country that mandates family planning and abortion?

http://www.hobbylobby.com/customer_service/contact_us_form.cfm?company=1&addr=1&dept=1&mypage=1

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Response to drm604 (Reply #50)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:07 PM

52. easier said then done

Why do they purchase from a country that mandates family planning and abortion? 


Sadly, because it is virtually impossible to not purchase items made in China....even us companies with a good reputation use china........

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Response to Niceguy1 (Reply #52)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:42 PM

55. Understood.

But it's still hypocrisy. If they are so pious and sincere then they should go out of business rather than support China. Saying "I'll only fight for my beliefs and my God if doing so doesn't hurt the bottom line" isn't exactly what the Christian religion teaches.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #55)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 09:15 AM

78. Bingo.

End of discussion.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:32 AM

25. k and r

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:41 AM

26. The anti-abortion crowd by and large do not stand on any morals,

they stand on a soap box and play to a grandstand of idiots.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:49 AM

31. Great post, beachbum bob!

And Hobby Lobby should be called out for it. They don't really care about contraception. It's just all about riling up the Tealiban.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:55 AM

32. So it is okay for their Chinese employees to have abortions/birth control, even mandatory, but

not for their American employees? Do I have that right?

I hadn't looked up this case, but will google it now.

What a bunch of twisted rw logic...

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:34 PM

40. Never mind the hypocrisy - granting exemptions based on religious beliefs is just a bad idea.

A company owned by Scientologists could deny mental health benefits (they don't believe in psychiatry). A company owned by Christian Scientists could deny all medical attention, since they don't believe in medical intervention. A company owned by Muslims could deny the receipt of a pig valve to repair a damaged heart.

And so on.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:35 PM

41. I honestly believe that these rwfreaks wear their hypocrisy as a badge of honour...

I have asked this question over and over…Who in their world ever calls them on their
hypocrisy?..not the churches, business or family, friends and most organizations.

The government, that they mostly hate, will call them on it if they are lying on their taxes
or some legal issues…otherwise, it's greed is good and they're, still, the IT'S ALL ABOUT ME group.


Tikki

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Response to Tikki (Reply #41)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 12:51 AM

72. You are correct

Calling them hypocrites doesn't seem to bother them in the least. Being hypocritical is their right. Calling them frauds, con-men and grifters seems to get more of a rise out of them.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:40 PM

42. Wow. That is a great point.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 12:56 PM

45. Apparently abortion is only immoral if it negatively affects their bottom line.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 01:05 PM

47. My comment on Hobby Lobby's Contact Us form

Why do you sell merchandise from China abortion factories?

Dear Hobby Lobby:

I know that Hobby Lobby refuses to supply health insurance, as mandated by the Affordable Care Act. Your reasoning is that the ACA mandates preventive health care for women.

Hobby Lobby's products are produced in China. As you know, China forces women to use contraceptives, and have abortions.

China is also a Communist country with a government and population that has no interest in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Christians are persecuted in China. I refer you to the article that appeared in Christianity Today in February, 2013: http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2013/february-web-only/persecution-in-china-is-very-real.html

Hobby Lobby does millions and millions of dollars of business with Communist China.

Hobby Lobby supports the government of Communist China with all the American dollars you send there.

Hobby Lobby is responsible for slave women in Communist China being forced to get abortions and use contraceptives.

Hobby Lobby pretends to be a Christian company that considers embryo life sacred.

How many abortions, contraceptives, and miscarriages have been forced on the slave women who populate the sweatshops and gulags that make Hobby Lobby's products?

Your money supports Christian persecution.

The Christian people who buy from Hobby Lobby do not want their money used to support these atrocities.

Hobby Lobby talks Christian with their mouth, but your money and business supports abortion, contraception, Christian persecution, and slavery.

To you, money is more sacred than Jesus Christ.

You are the highest form of hypocrisy.

Close your business now. Repent for your sins. Give all your sacred money away.

Pray that, somehow, you will be saved from the fires and agony of hell and damnation.

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Response to NBachers (Reply #47)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 07:45 PM

63. Daaaaaamn! You're good!

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Response to NBachers (Reply #47)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 08:25 AM

75. well worded commentary to Hobby Lobby

I have sent similar comments.

Too much of what we buy comes from China and other countries with similar oppressive policies forced on their citizens and too often american consumers turn the blind eye. But using the People of faith route, if they are truly people of faith...we can't let their beliefs stop at the check book. Unfortunately. little discussion happens on this kind of subject. My sister no longer patronizes Hobby Lobby or Walmart becasue of issues with China being a huge supplier of their inventory.

My beliefs on abortion and contraception its a personal choices and outright mandates or prohibition is direct assault on personal rights to decide. I haven't bought anything in Walmart in 10 years as I view Walmart as the corporation that led the charge for off-shoring of american jobs back in the 1980's and the top reason why the American Dream is almost completely gone. So its more of an economic issue for me.

We have to engage people of faith to question their own involvement in FORCED abortions and contraceptives everytime they spend a dollar on items made in China.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 01:25 PM

48. Bullseye! Let's make this a meme

and spread it all over the place.

Trav

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 01:27 PM

49. Pat Robertson said in the Eighties that doing business with forced abortion China was okay...

Because it's 'their own country and they have to do what they have to do,' or words to that effect. At the same time, he was supporting suppression of any abortions in the USA. In his questionable moral code, 'crimes against the fetus' are determined by borders, and business interests.

I watched Blood Diamond Pat have a meltdown on the air as Charles Taylor fell from power. Robertson was wailing how he'd invested so much of CBN monies in the business. Even his co-hosts were amazed at his very passionate display. I don't remember, but I think he shed some real tears over it.

Then he clothed it all in what a good Christian man Taylor was and being smeared by liberals in the USA. Taylor benefited Pat financially so he supported him. All for Gawd, you know.

Charles Taylor: Pat Robertson was my man in Washington
By Colum Lynch - February 4, 2010



Former Liberian President Charles Taylor, testifying in his own war crimes trial today, said that the American conservative evangelist Pat Robertson was awarded a Liberian gold-mining concession in 1999 and subsequently offered to lobby the Bush administration to support his government.

The revelations came in the midst of a U.N.-backed trial of Taylor at The Hague on 11 counts of war crimes and crimes against humanity during Sierra Leone's 1990s civil war. Taylor is accused of directing a Sierra Leone rebel group, the United Revolutionary Front (RUF), in a campaign aimed at securing access to the country's diamond mines. The rebel movement stands accused of committing mass atrocities in the late 1990s in the West African country, including the mutilation of thousands of civilians.

The international prosecutors contend that Taylor offered concessions to Western individuals in exchange for lobbying work aimed at enhancing his image in the United States. The prosecution maintains that Taylor also spent $2.6 million on lobbying firms and public relations outfits in the hopes of influencing the policies of former President Bill Clinton and George W. Bush.

Under cross-examination, Taylor said that Robertson had volunteered to make Liberia's case before U.S. administration officials, and had spoken directly to President Bush about Taylor. He also confirmed that Robertson's company, Freedom Gold Limited, signed an agreement to exploit gold in southeastern Liberia, but that it never generated any profit...


http://turtlebay.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/02/05/charles_taylor_pat_robertson_was_my_man_in_washington

While that article I found from one google search didn't say he made any money, what he said on the air about how he'd lost CBN's money, contradicts that to me. More links:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/pat-robertsons-gold-deal-african-dictator/story?id=9749341

http://www.thenation.com/article/153980/televangelist-and-warlord

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/01/14/825050/-Pat-Robertson-Freedom-Gold-and-Blood-Diamonds

More about Pat's business deals under the name of charity:

http://www.democracynow.org/2005/9/9/fema_promotes_pat_robertson_charity

I suspect what Robertson really meant about abortion, like Pat Buchanan had the liberty of stating on air and in books, that the reason abortion in the USA must stop was to increase the number of white babies who Gawd loves in the womb. But those Chinese babies, meh.

No priniciples are involved, profits and politics only. What a bunch of frauds. Sorry, I'm not going to be nice to the right wing religious demagogues who want this nation dragged back to the dark ages.

Pat tried to back away from his comments. This from the guy who wanted Chavez killed, who said that Haitians and New Orleans deserved Gawd's wrath visited upon them, that other locales in the USA also should not be helped for not teaching Creationism or having prayers in their schools, etc. This is the kind of Christianity the Hobby Lobby is pushing.

Pat Robertson Remarks on China Abortions
By GUSTAV NIEBUHR - April 18, 2001

The religious broadcaster Pat Robertson told a CNN interviewer on Monday that the United States should not interfere with population- control policies in China, but yesterday, sounding a note of regret, he said he should have emphasized his anti-abortion views...

In the interview, Mr. Blitzer had asked Mr. Robertson how he reconciled his support for close relations with China with complaints by conservatives that China was promoting "so-called forced abortions."

Mr. Robertson said he would not agree with such a policy. "But at the same time, they've got 1.2 billion people, and they don't know what to do," Mr. Robertson said. "If every family over there was allowed to have three or four children, the population would become completely unsustainable."

After saying China risked political upheaval if unemployment made its population restive, Mr. Robertson said: "So, I think that right now they're doing what they have to do. I don't agree with forced abortion, but I don't think the United States needs to interfere with what they're doing internally in this regard."

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/18/politics/18ABOR.html

Nice whitewash by Wolfie. The Hobby Lobby and Pat have profit before people, lucre before life business plans. They should be hit by the IRS for all of this garbage. Just my cranky opinion this morning.

BTW, Sandra Fluke spoke to their game best:

They are corporations who are now saying what laws they will and will not obey, unilaterally, and ordering citizens to obey their religious beliefs, and not their own, which is a violation of the employees' 1A rights...

People do not surrender their rights as citizens when they go to work, like prisoners do. They have committed no crime to need a job. Or have they? Is that what the Hobby Lobby and other groups are saying, if you are not born independently rich, you should be punished by whatever the boss says?

Sure looks that way to me.


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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 01:58 PM

51. REALITY

because most anti abortion activists wouldn't even dare to try this stuff in any of the Asian countries as the they would be ridiculed and laughed at and in China they would be chucked in jail in a second.

They are only anti abortion when its convenient and they can beg people for money to support there six figure salaries

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:07 PM

53. These shoppers will do whatever their pastors are paid to tell them to do. nt

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 02:33 PM

54. I know. But also Hobby Lobby has purchased "sacred" texts and stuffed them

away offering their own interpretations. And whassup ....do they hire only "Christians"? If so, is that not discrimination? They are a controlling bunch of people and totally screwed up.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 03:10 PM

57. According to a Supreme Court Decision,

Legislated law supersedes religious doctrine. How do you think the Scalia Court will rule in the Hobby Lobby case where Hobby Lobby takes the position that legislated law infringes on their religious liberty?

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Response to The Wizard (Reply #57)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 08:32 AM

77. Scalia has no problem being a hypocrit as we well know

so we can wait and see what he says....but he does have a documented position on law and using any religion to violate it from 1990

from dailyKos

"....in a 1990 majority opinion, Justice Antonin Scalia wrote that Native Americans fired for smoking peyote as part of a religious ceremony had no right to reinstatement. It “would be courting anarchy,” Scalia wrote in Employment Division v. Smith, to allow them to violate the law just because they were “religious objectors” to it. “An individual’s religious beliefs,” he continued, cannot “excuse him from compliance with an otherwise valid law.”

as the ACA is law and been upheld by the SC as the law of the land...the ruling may be interesting

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 04:30 PM

58. This is great stuff!

Thanks for posting.

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 05:33 PM

60. Thank you for this post, beachbum bob and welcome to DU, in case you haven't gotten

a proper one from the knuckleheads around here.

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Response to japple (Reply #60)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 08:04 AM

74. thanks, I usually don't have alot of time....

I have dealt with batshit crazy conservatives and religious nutcases for years...my family has a fair share of both. The one common trait is their ability to be hypocritical while feigning sincerity. I usually call them out on it much to their displeasure and pretty much shut them up. If you want to preach a way to live in front of me, its best that YOU live that way yourself first.

I had a neighbor for years you never spoke of govt in any kind of good light...of course he was a state worker, his wife got her college degree thru federal and state grants and loans, his kids got all sorts of tax credits for education, tax credits for earned income..all the typical support that people at the lower ends that need to have some assistance with. So when I pointed out the small discrepancy between what his "beliefs" are and what appears to rank hypocrisy...his reply was " We deserve them becasue we worked for it...." I nearly busted a nut when he said that. Obviously the sense of "entitlement" is twisted. Its good for me but not for thee is pretty typical.....

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Response to beachbum bob (Reply #74)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 09:33 AM

79. "Obviously the sense of "entitlement" is twisted. Its good for me but not for thee"

Yep.

And that, "we earned it!" response is exactly the same answer I get when I point out their glaring hypocrisies, especially when they're in the middle of excoriating the PPACA amongst other Democratic policies and benefits (while being unable to point out a single Republican policy that has ever benefited the American people).

Then I end the discussion with, "You're nothing but a fraud."

That seems to really piss them off. They absolutely loathe the word "fraud" - almost as much as the word "liberal". The word "hypocrite"? Meh. Doesn't bother them. However, their sense of exaggerated piousness for themselves alone won't accept being labeled a "fraud". And that's exactly why I use it instead of hypocrite.

Welcome to DU, beachbum bob. And congrats on an excellent post!

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 08:47 PM

64. Any company email adress we could send a message thru?

30,000 protest emails couldn't hurt.

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Response to nikto (Reply #64)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 08:26 AM

76. their corporate website has contact info

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 11:35 PM

69. Just sent a tweet to Hobby Lobby

doubt I'll get a reply

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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 02:41 AM

73. Brilliant observation.

K&R


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Response to beachbum bob (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 06:52 PM

81. Maybe Chinese fetuses don't count?

Or what? I don't know...
White American slutty women need to be punished for their slutty behavior more than the Chinese women?

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