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Fri Nov 29, 2013, 06:29 PM

Chris Hedges on porn

Abu Ghraib and the pornification of culture

45 replies, 2922 views

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Arrow 45 replies Author Time Post
Reply Chris Hedges on porn (Original post)
BainsBane Nov 2013 OP
99Forever Nov 2013 #1
BainsBane Nov 2013 #2
99Forever Nov 2013 #6
Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2013 #17
pintobean Nov 2013 #4
LittleBlue Nov 2013 #14
BainsBane Dec 2013 #34
xulamaude Nov 2013 #5
procon Nov 2013 #8
BainsBane Nov 2013 #9
99Forever Nov 2013 #11
Fumesucker Nov 2013 #16
chervilant Nov 2013 #15
99Forever Nov 2013 #30
chervilant Dec 2013 #35
99Forever Dec 2013 #44
zazen Nov 2013 #3
BainsBane Nov 2013 #10
zazen Nov 2013 #12
BainsBane Nov 2013 #13
Kurska Nov 2013 #18
xulamaude Nov 2013 #23
Kurska Nov 2013 #28
madinmaryland Nov 2013 #7
MNBrewer Nov 2013 #19
xulamaude Nov 2013 #24
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #31
rrneck Nov 2013 #20
loli phabay Nov 2013 #21
rrneck Nov 2013 #22
DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2013 #25
xulamaude Nov 2013 #26
BainsBane Dec 2013 #33
NaturalHigh Nov 2013 #27
rrneck Nov 2013 #29
snagglepuss Nov 2013 #32
arely staircase Dec 2013 #36
Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #38
arely staircase Dec 2013 #39
Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #43
RiffRandell Dec 2013 #40
arely staircase Dec 2013 #41
opiate69 Dec 2013 #42
kentauros Dec 2013 #37
Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #45

Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 06:36 PM

1. Is someone obsessing just a tad?

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 06:38 PM

2. Yep

Thought I'd spread a little knowledge. I know, plug your ears. Don't let it penetrate.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 06:43 PM

6. Why am I so reminded of that creepy Ted Arthur Haggard guy?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #2)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:23 PM

17. "Thought I'd spread a little knowledge."

An ill-considered choice of words based on the nature of the OP.


just sayin'

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 06:41 PM

4. It has the makings of a flame out

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Response to pintobean (Reply #4)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:20 PM

14. Yep

We need at least 10 more of these threads, but include Rick Santorum and Pat Robertson








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Response to pintobean (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 01:46 AM

34. Please proceed

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 06:42 PM

5. You beat me to it!

 

I wanted to be the first to remind her, but I would have added the ego boost thing too.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 06:53 PM

8. Ya think!

Someone wants to make sure everyone knows they want porn. I'd laugh, but as with all misbehaving toddlers and puppies, that only encourages more of the same... you can't really hear me snickering behind my hand, can you???

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Response to procon (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 06:58 PM

9. It is really so awful to be presented with an alternative view?

People work so hard to keep their minds closed.

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Response to procon (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:00 PM

11. I don't know what you are doing with your hand...

... nor do I want to or see any reason you would post on this board about it.

Hey, but you and your hand have a nice weekend, okay?

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Response to procon (Reply #8)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:23 PM

16. Is that what those wacky kids are calling it these days?

In my day we wore an onion on our belt.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:23 PM

15. Are you going for condescension,

or sanctimony? I can't really tell for sure.

If you're not disgusted by the porn industry that continues to objectify and degrade women and children, then help me understand why such garbage is acceptable to you.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 08:20 AM

30. I am "going for" neither.

Whether or not "I" or "you" or anyone else is "disgusted by the porn industry" is irrelevant. The world has a multitude of things that "disgust" me far more than sexual acts between consenting adults. Frankly, I care fuckall if you understand anything about me, that is also irrelevant.

What you need to understand, is that Freedom of Expression trumps your control freak urge to tell others what is "acceptable" and censor their Constitutionally protected RIGHTS.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #30)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 04:15 PM

35. Yeah, that's right,

"Freedom of Expression trumps your control freak urge to tell others what is "acceptable" and censor their Constitutionally protected RIGHTS."

Freedom of expression certainly justifies the sexism and misogyny that drives the porn industry...

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Response to chervilant (Reply #35)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 05:55 PM

44. Freedom of Expression is guaranteed by our Constitution.

Protecting YOU from being upset by it and making YOU the judge of what is and isn't "justified" isn't.

Now, run along and get to work, surely someone, somewhere is enjoying some kind sexual play you find intolerable and you MUST stop it!

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 06:39 PM

3. would you say that if she posted regularly on marriage equality?

I guess that Chris Hedges is a sex-hating prude too. Just look at him.

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Response to zazen (Reply #3)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 06:59 PM

10. You know something

I think you meant to put this in response to post 1. I thought you were calling Chris Hedges a she.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #10)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:12 PM

12. yep--I was noting how concern about porn is "obsessive"

but persistent concern about civil rights in any other context is lauded.

Thank heavens for Bob Jensen and Chris Hedges and other men who speak out about the harms of pornography. Sadly, there are many people who will only listen to other men about this, and if that cuts into one trafficker's profit margin or helps stop the conditioning of five boys' sexuality to hurting females, then so be it.

Sorry for the confusion. I'm not the most agile user of these boards.

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Response to zazen (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:14 PM

13. Thanks for clarifying

I first took is as a slur against Hedges.

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Response to zazen (Reply #12)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:35 PM

18. Your ability to stop others from consuming fiction you do not like is a not a civil right

It is a violation of the civil rights of others.

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Response to Kurska (Reply #18)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 08:11 PM

23. What? It looks like you respoded to the wrong thread? nt

 

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Response to xulamaude (Reply #23)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 09:00 PM

28. I meant what I said and I said what I meant n/t

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 06:43 PM

7. WhoisChrisHedges used to be a DUer. What ever happened to him/her??



Oops, that was WhoisAlHedges.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:38 PM

19. So straight porn is the problem, my hands are clean

I don't watch porn with females in it.

Or as some in the anti-porn camp would call it "erotica". It doesn't contain violence against women, therefore it cannot be called pornography, which is of course idiotic.

There can, by their definition, never be such a thing as all-male pornography.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #19)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 08:14 PM

24. It is good that there is pornography

 

that has no women in it.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 08:48 AM

31. The porn industry is corrupt as shit

Sexual orientation means exactly dick when considering any pros and cons.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:42 PM

20. Well, if you don't want to ban porn

why don't you describe what it should be.

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Response to rrneck (Reply #20)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 07:49 PM

21. between a married male and female, for procreation only, missionary with artistic camera blurring

 

And then a shot of a geyser going off or train leaving a tunnel.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 08:01 PM

22. But only if the engineer is Andrea Dworkin. nt

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 08:16 PM

25. We've moved from simulated rape porn to just porn. Right on schedule.

No
Text

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 08:30 PM

26. It seems that the subject of this OP

 

is what Mr. Hedges has to say about porn in the short clip.

It's a different, but related, topic.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #25)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 01:44 AM

33. That happened to be what these video clips deal with

I didn't do the interviews.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 08:55 PM

27. Thanks for posting this!

We needed another porn thread!

Don't like porn, don't watch it.

ETA:

Chris Hedges: "I stand by the right wing in this..."

Very telling. At least he admits it.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Fri Nov 29, 2013, 10:27 PM

29. The book Hedges is promoting in the video

is Empire of Illusion: The end of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle. It took me a bit to find it on the shelf and look through chapter 2, The Illusion of Love.

It opens with an extended quote by Andrea Dworkin. Enough about that. It goes on to describe the porn industry in lurid detail. The chapter opens with interviews with activists associated with the organization Pink Cross, a Christian outreach program for women in the porn industry. There are interviews with people in the business who recount horror stories of their treatment, their psychological trauma, enthusiasm and cynicism regarding working in porn.

At one point the subject of prostitution comes up, and we gain an insight into the possible motivations of women who get into the porn business.

When I ask ex-porn actress Jan Meza, thirty, who once did a scene in which twenty-five men had sex with her, how she would describe producers and directors of the porn industry, she answers curtly: "Pimps". The porn stars make anywhere from $1,500 to $3,000 dollars an hour as prostitutes. Roldan would, along with other porn actresses, be flown into a city, including New York, and stay at a hotel for a week. They would meet clients in their hotel room.
...
"Ninety percent work as prostitutes", she says. "They meet a lot of their big clients in Vegas during this convention. There is really big money being made by some of these women at night, as much as $2,000 an hour." (pp 67-68)


I find it fascinating that you would trot out a third hand clip of an interview about a book upon which the author is commenting. And then you proceed to use this quote mine nugget to push an agenda about which you refuse to proffer any concrete suggestion beyond the theater of umbrage and outrage. The Amazon blurb is eerily succinct:

We now live in two Americas. One—now the minority—functions in a print-based, literate world that can cope with complexity and can separate illusion from truth. The other—the majority—is retreating from a reality-based world into one of false certainty and magic.


But lets let Mr. Hedges speak for himself here since he is a much better writer than I will ever be.

"Our culture of illusion is, at its core, a culture of death. It will die and leave little of value behind. It was Sparta that celebrated raw militarism, discipline, obedience, and power, but it was Athenian art and philosophy that echoed down the ages to enlighten new worlds, including our own. Hope exists. It will always exist. It will not come through structures or institutions, nor will it come through nation-states, but it will prevail, even if we as distinct individuals and civilizations vanish. The power of love is greater than the power of death." (pp. 192-193)


The book isn't about pornography, but spectacle. It's about the dangers of hero worship and blind authoritarianism. It's about how we allow ourselves to be lulled by easy solutions to complex problems. It's about how we allow ourselves to be hoodwinked by the poisonous treacle of ideological snake oil for our own egotistical ends. It's a very good book and I recommend it.

Can't help you with the Chomskey. I don't read Hustler.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 03:17 PM

32. to view later

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 04:43 PM

36. again with the porn

always with the porn

on and on about the porn

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #36)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 05:04 PM

38. It's a massive crisis.

You know, People masturbating, and such.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 05:24 PM

39. remember this?

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #39)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 05:51 PM

43. Oh, right.



Boy, I hope she, uh... mounts another campaign.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #38)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 05:34 PM

40. The Horror!

And just think of mutual masturbation! Like, does that even exist? Gross!

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Response to RiffRandell (Reply #40)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 05:39 PM

42. Color me shocked!

A guy, raised by a minister, gets himself a "Divinity" degree (and, no discernable background in psychology or sexuality), and he takes issue with teh pr0n. Whodathunkit?

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 05:00 PM

37. And then there's historical porn in classic art:

Erotica en la Historia

This is a huge site of links (and I'm not sure how it's organized), but I've found some truly fine works of art in it that some would classify as porn while others call it erotica. It's still worth a look

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sun Dec 1, 2013, 05:56 PM

45. "I stand by the right wing in this"

He gets points for at least being honest, there.

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