General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsObama Administration APPROVES Keystone XL Key Infrastructure Component.
Last edited Fri Nov 29, 2013, 02:30 PM - Edit history (1)
If anyone is still under the delusion that the Keystone XL Pipeline will be stopped, they should seek medical attention.
This is a required phase of Keystone XL and will send millions of barrels of the 'dilbit' diluting fluid into Canada.
DID ANYONE THINK THAT INSIDER TRADING BY CONGRESS ON KXL WASN'T A SIGNAL?
DID ANYONE THINK THAT SCORES OF CONGRESS & THEIR STAFF INVESTING IN 2 DOZEN CANADIAN FIRMS WASN'T A SIGNAL?
http://my.firedoglake.com/stevehorn1022/2013/11/26/obama-approves-major-border-crossing-fracked-gas-pipeline-used-to-dilute-tar-sands/
KXL IS happening and Obama WILL FORMALLY APPROVE it!
Deal with it.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)but not too surprised.
One big fucking BOO! from me!
warrant46
(2,205 posts)newfie11
(8,159 posts)I had slim hopes he would not approve it. For gods sakes he has two daughters facing the future on this planet.
I guess I was wrong.
Where do the idiots think their kids/grand kids will live!
SammyWinstonJack
(44,129 posts)escape plan or maybe they just don't give a crap?
WCGreen
(45,558 posts)And there is good reason, they say.
You have to be the commander in chief to all the people not just those who voted or donated to the campaign.
You have to be the Chief Officer for all the people and not just those who voted or donated to the campaign.
The problem I have is that the rhetoric is always addressed to the left of center while at the same time promises are made to the money interests on the down low. That way, after the election, the rubes take it on the chin and the money men reap all the returns.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)instead of one that is about a whole different pipeline?
Probably because you don't have one.
TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)What's the point of sending up millions of barrels of diluter when the dilbit has no where to go?
The money is already invested, the processes are being put in place, the final decision is made.
It's in the implementation phase.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)and it can import its fracking products to any country that will take them.
Even your article comes with a disclaimer:
"While the industry press coverage sounds optimistic, it doesnt account for the concurrent rise of public opposition to dirty energy pipelines and expansion plans in the fracking and tar sands arenas, so only time will tell the fate of Cochin and its kin."
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)That need NGC shipped from the Gulf Coast to Alberta........ Today shipped by rail.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)***SNIP
1. Not Your Average Crude
InsideClimate News reported shortly after the spill that an Exxon official confirmed the pipeline was "transporting a heavy form of crude from the Canadian tar sands region." Specifically, it has been identified as Wabasca Heavy, Lisa Song writes, "which is a type of diluted bitumen, or dilbit, from Alberta's tar sands region" although you won't hear any Exxon folks calling it tar sands.
***SNIP
2. Not Your Average Pipeline
The Pegasus pipeline running more than 850 miles between Patoka, Illinois and Nederland, Texas, is 20 inches in diameter and was built in the 1940s to carry crude from Texas to Illinois. But in 2006 the flow was reversed in order to carry Canadian tar sands to Texas. As Ben Jervey wrote for DeSmog blog, the flow was reversed to "help relieve the tar sands crude bottleneck in Cushing, Oklahoma. (The same reason given by proponents for the construction of Keystone XL.)"
***SNIP
3. Tax Exempt?
Who's footing the bill for the cleanup? The government has an Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund that companies which transport oil must pay into. But, as it turns out, the bitumen that Exxon was transporting in its pipeline isn't oil by government standards. Erin O'Sullivan writes for Oil Change International:
In a January 2011 memorandum, the IRS determined that to generate revenues for the oil spill trust fund, Congress only intended to tax conventional crude, and not tar sands or other unconventional oils. This exemption remains to this day, even though the United States moves billions of gallons of tar sands crude through its pipeline system every year. The trust fund is liable for tar sands oil spill cleanups without collecting any revenue from tar sands transport. If the fund goes broke, the American taxpayer foots the cleanup bill.
http://www.alternet.org/environment/6-things-you-need-know-about-arkansas-oil-spill
to xchrom:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022612650
One of the claims made at the time of the spill was that the Keystone pipeline was to replace this one which is 30 years old and likely to leak. It's been going through for longer than some think.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/112739879
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017109300#post35
http://www.democraticunderground.com/112739879#post2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022586921
Sorry if this is not what you are talking about. But it goes with the OP topic, which I think you mean.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I'm no big fan of the other projects, either, but unless some sort of reverse-divine shit happens, or some sort of conspiracy, maybe, Obama won't be approving KXL at this point; if he was really intent on this, he would have done so already, probably in his first two years in office.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)he was still pretending to be a liberal, or at least a Dem, to get re-elected and finish off the party and the country. The gloves are off now.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)TBH, as much as many of us don't like KXL, the truth is, is that it's not nearly as much of an issue with voters as a whole as women's rights, progressive economic reform(such as raising of the min. wage, for example), etc. Obama probably wouldn't have lost many voters if he had, so if he was really totally in favor of it, we'd have had it entirely in place by now. And yet, he's been extremely hesitant thus far.
madokie
(51,076 posts)I wouldn't believe anything I read in there if my life depended on it.
You can bet you ass if its on that site theres more not truth in the story than there is truth.
TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)FogerRox
(13,211 posts)Vancouver Observer
http://www.vancouverobserver.com/environment/obama-approves-kinder-morgans-cochin-pipeline-expansion
AS well as the IB Times
http://www.ibtimes.com/keystone-pipeline-update-obama-approves-new-cross-border-pipeline-benefiting-canadian-oil-sand
A google search yields some results
https://www.google.com/search?q=Obama+approves+border-crossing+fracked+gas+pipeline+used+to+dilute+tar+sands&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs
Then theres the website of the US State Dept
http://www.state.gov/e/enr/applicant/applicants/217905.htm
AUTHORIZING KINDER MORGAN COCHIN, LLC
TO CONNECT, OPERATE, AND MAINTAIN PIPELINE FACILITIES AT THE INTERNATIONAL BOUNDARY BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Obama Administration APPROVES Keystone XL
then...
KXL IS happening and Obama WILL APPROVE it!
So, which is it?
TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Stop lying or prove the statement he approved it. Thanks!
TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)You can keep your head in the sand, or based on your handle, the bottle, but it's going through.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Don't come over here and lie and tell me something that isn't fact and then insult me because you can't back up your claim. It's easy - if it's been approved, as you've said, provide the evidence of it or stop lying.
Hekate
(90,206 posts)... Having made up their minds already. Why? The environmental betrayal that has not happened is just another version of the many causes that have not not not been thrown under the bus, despite repeated claims of tread marks and axle grease in the hair.
It's baffling beyond words.
TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)Just keep your head in the sand, pretending that everything is OK.
Just don't act surprised when you hear the 11th hour announcement.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)You Better Believe It,
Cause belief is all they got.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)BETTER BELIVE IT too.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)If there were any possibility that the pipeline would not be approved there would be a PR blitz to sway public opinion. But instead, nada. You are right. It has been approved. They just don't have to balls to announce it publicly. It is exactly the same PR approach as with TPP. They keep it secret because they don't have the balls to take the heat from the public. They know that as long as they don't confirm it publicly that we will be chasing ghosts and have a divided camp, as illustrated by the contemptuous comments here.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Thanks, tacitly Obama!
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)We are bought and sold.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)on a different pipeline and didn't bother to read the article.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)But then, you know that.
Look. Homelessness among American schoolchildren up 10 percent since last year: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024107748
But we get posts about the President's pretty sweaters.
What has our President been working on? What are his priorities? A budget with Social Security cuts. The predatory TPP. And Keystone.
There is no plan to help the 99 percent, because corporations own this government and this administration. There is no plan to help the 99 percent, because there is no intent to help the 99 percent.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)The ODS is strong in this bullshit thread.
Sid
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)rather than sweaters.
Where is the plan to help the 99 percent? Where is it?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024107748
Why is the President instead aggressively pushing the TPP and other policies that will drive Americans deeper into poverty and despair?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024107835
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)The president is already celebrating by taunting homeless children with sweaters.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Who does he think he is, JFK???
(hint to what I guess is the concern... )
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)You'll understand what I'm saying when you read that thread.
Number23
(24,544 posts)hasn't been paying attention to ANY of that person's posts. Come to think of it, ignoring that person's posts is probably the sanest thing anybody could do here.
Someone should create a sweater smiley or avatar just to torment the apparently easily tormented chap. An ugly sweater, no an ugly CHRISTMAS sweater would probably knock him out completely.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)place a little. We should start a betting pool on which one flames out first.
rusty fender
(3,428 posts)could not find the words to express it.
This is not a personal attack on Obama, but he is a politician. He is not a statesman, he is not courageous. He is a politician. He shovels out mashed potatoes on Thanksgiving because he is a politician, not because he cares.
We tend to put all our stock into who is POTUS, but in our system, the Prez can only do what our crony-capitalist system allows him to do. Even if Obama wanted to do everything that we on the left want him to do, he couldn't do it.
Our system is corrupt. Change will come only from totally dismantling it.
TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)Don't try to discredit my post because I only have posted 500 items.
I am a corporate executive, am a single parent, and going back to college for continuing education.
If I was afforded the luxury of not being productive and hanging out on the boards all day, I'd have 20,000 posts too.
===
Now, as a business executive, one of the tricks management plays is the old "Business As Usual" trick on the employees until the last day they are legally required to disclose a matter to the workforce.
Yes, the deafening silence is bothersome... because that's exactly how any business executive would play it.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)Wow.
You are a businessman?
Doubt it.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)ConcernedCanuk
(13,509 posts).
.
.
From your own link in the OP
"Although TransCanadas Keystone XL tar sands pipeline has received the lions share of media attention, another key border-crossing pipeline benefitting tar sands producers was approved on November 19 by the U.S. State Department.
Enter Cochin, Kinder Morgans 1,900-mile proposed pipeline to transport gas produced via the controversial hydraulic fracturing (fracking) of the Eagle Ford Shale basin in Texas north through Kankakee, Illinois, and eventually into Alberta, Canada, the home of the tar sands.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Whether or not these pipelines get approval - they still have many hurdles - expropriating land for one thing.
But what a crock -
" Obama WILL FORMALLY APPROVE it ".
I repeat, this article is not about Keystone XL
more from lnk:
Like Keystone XL, the pipeline proposal requires U.S. State Department approval because it crosses the U.S.-Canada border. Unlike Keystone XL which would carry diluted tar sands diluted bitumen (dilbit) south to the Gulf Coast Kinder Morgans Cochin pipeline would carry the gas condensate (diluent) used to dilute the bitumen north to the tar sands.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________
"Kinder Morgans Cochin pipeline " - get it?
Kinder Morgans Cochin pipeline
that's what this article is about - the references to Keystone XL are just attention grabbers.
sheesh!
CC
berni_mccoy
(23,018 posts)This article only mentions Keystone. The article is about something else entirely.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)it will destroy his legacy.
Because, believe me, people in the future will blame those that stood by and did nothing to curb pollution and C02 emissions in the early 21st Century, when we still had time to do something.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)No wait ... that's so last week.
It was the endless war in Syria that was going to destroy his legacy.
Wait ... it was all of the times he's cut Social Security, THAT was going to destroy his legacy.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)And if wasn't for that damn Kerry and those meddlesome kids, Old Man Barack would have got away with it, too!
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)more than the President's legacy. It's about climate change and the continued reliance on dirty energy.
And who said anything about the ACA destroying the President's legacy besides Republicans? I sure didn't say it.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)And usually, its a thing that didn't happen yet.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Since Christmas trees are pagan symbols. Surely, Faux News will give us all the sordid details. Stay tuned for the next horror.
demwing
(16,916 posts)Intentionally misleading Bullshit
Deal with it
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)ODS
Sid
ancianita
(35,817 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)This is self contradictory nonsense.
More crap from Liardogfake.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Do you have anything at all to substantiate these allegations or are going to continue with this nonsense?
BumRushDaShow
(127,346 posts)"Obama" appoints Larry Summers to the Fed!!11!!!!!
"Obama" keeps the Bush tax cuts in place!!!11!!!111!
"Obama" keeps combat troops in Iraq war!!111!!!11!!!!
"Obama" keeps "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in place!!1!!!!11!!111!
Seems some on DU have joined the Clint Eastwood universe that talks to an empty chair with "an Obama" in it.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Now we know. Or think we do...
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)I've learned to take such claims of Obama with a grain of salt. A lot of attention seekers and pot stirrers out there.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)~ Albert Einstein
Although the prophecies quoted here have the same success rate as those of Pat Robertson.
Just sayin'
babylonsister
(170,964 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)so we can all see who has no problem supporting a pile of horseshit like this thread.
Sid
TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)It would ne nice to see if people are taking the role of moderator a bit too seriously...
Or, if those people are trying to push an agenda that suppresses certain posters or topics.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Pretty pathetic
Response to SidDithers (Reply #37)
freshwest This message was self-deleted by its author.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]All things in moderation, including moderation.[/center][/font][hr]
demwing
(16,916 posts)"Obama Approves Major Border-Crossing Fracked Gas Pipeline Used to Dilute Tar Sands"
Subject of the article you posted:
A proposed border crossing pipeline for Kinder Morgan Cochin, LLC/
Times Keystone is mentioned in the article:
3. Once stating that both pipelines cross the Canada border, once stating that (unlike Keystone) the Kinder Morgan Cochin pipeline will not carry tar sands, and once at the very beginning, making sure that the reader is aware that this article is not about Keystone.
So how do you account for your blatant falsehoods? Why is bald-faced lying encouraged on DU?
TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)The chess pieces are being put into place.
It's just a matter of time before the final switch is pulled, probably after the 2014 elections.
It is true, they are NOT carrying tar sands... they are carrying the diluter needed to dilute the tar sands so they will flow though a pipeline. Gee, what pipeline could that be? I know of no other pipeline on the books besides KXL. Do you?
===
Go ahead and display faux anger at what I have posted.
The title is not 100% accurate, but the contents are, which signal validity to the title.
===
So, what is Canada going to do with millions of barrels of dilbit diluter if they have no place to send it?
demwing
(16,916 posts)but acting as if the issue were history is not honest, and inflammatory.
Call it faux anger if it helps you deal with it, I don't care.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)just not published.
If you can't see that millions of barrels of dilbit diluter is being shipped to Canada to make the tar sands flow though a pipe, yet there are NO other pipelines on the books besides KXL... What is Canada doing then?
If you can't accept that there was a backroom deal made to push forward with KXL, then don't post about TPP either, as that's a backroom deal too.
===
Displace your anger at what I've posted and try to hide it.
It won't change the direction things are going.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)and what you think he will do. You may be right, you may be wrong and time will tell.
But for now, the Headline is a Lie.
TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 30, 2013, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)
Just a brief slice of the history of Canadian tar sand - bitumen -dilbit pipelines that are already in existance:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024107740#post89
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024107740#post90
You cannot prove that the discussions are not about an already deteriorating pipeline that has been in operation for decades. It is supposition and not even logical to assume there isn't anything else on the books.
Why make such a claim?
As far as 'What is Canada doing?'
Isn't that obvious?
They are doing what they have done for decades. They are selling their resource, and these mixtures have been flowing throught the USA for decades, per the articles I linked but you didn't comment on.
Canada and Mexico are the two countries we import the most oil from and have for decades. There is nothing new going on here. The infrastructure is there, and this entire country is criss crossed with pipelines of all kinds and always has been.
Not that I like it, and have more than once protested new ones. There is nothing wrong with that, but there is something wrong with wholesale disregarding the facts to make a smear based on opinion that doesn't meet the test of logic or history or facts.
To ignore what is already in place, in order to make the accusation you are making, is not credible.
JMHO. Good luck on your next OP.
narnian60
(3,510 posts)1-5 to leave it.
tridim
(45,358 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)...but there is nothing in his track record to indicate that he will not do so.
Someone has certainly given the approval for the pipeline to the corporations involved
because they are still building it.
"Timing" is a necessary element for good Kabuki Theater.
The peasants will be told about it when it suits our overlords to tell us....or not.
It is possible that the Pipeline could be completed without an official announcement,
only the secret backroom approval of the administration.
tridim
(45,358 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)....as a substitute for legitimate, rational debate remains unblemished.
The Ad Hominem Logical Fallacy
First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting).
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
You will know them by their WORKS.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)I forgot to add,
[font size=3]Just Saying.[/font]
polichick
(37,152 posts)jazzimov
(1,456 posts)In other news, dog bites man.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)that's when the Janies at FDL like to come out and play havoc for the democrats. 2010 was riddled with Hamsters Going Wild.
*spits.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)chillfactor
(7,566 posts)this sounds like a FAUX NOISE "story"......
TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)Does that mean you discount everything FOX puts out too?
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)TheBlackAdder
(28,078 posts)For those who have a problem with Firedoglake...
Daily Kos:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/26/1258647/-Obama-Approves-Major-Border-Crossing-Fracked-Gas-Pipeline-Used-to-Dilute-Tar-Sands
===
Motley Fool:
http://www.fool.ca/2013/11/28/oil-sands-105-what-is-diluent-and-why-is-it-important/
snip...
Bottom line, ample supply of diluent is critical to getting Canadas oil out via major pipelines. This includes current export pipelines like those from TransCanada (TSX: TRP) (NYSE: TRP) which currently handles a third of Canadian oil exports, as well as future projects like its Keystone XL and Energy East or Kinder Morgans Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion. Diluent coming into Canada means diluted bitumen can flow back out of the country.
...snip
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)indepat
(20,899 posts)environmental and ecological disaster that solely benefits the 1% and especially the frikkin' Kochk bros?
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)And makes a leap in logic to decide that this will mean approval of Keystone.
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)its used to dilute bitumen, tar sands.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)This doesn't prove anything about the Keystone pipeline.
FogerRox
(13,211 posts)The existing Trans Mountain pipeline needs dilutant, and that pipeline is close to being doubled, which doubles the need for dilutant.
Since Cochin only needs reversal, its expected to be in operation in June of 2014.
mother earth
(6,002 posts)There's only a façade of democracy until then, our gov't has been rendered dysfunctional and serves only monied interests.
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)This thread violates the terms of service for the site.
Posting blatant untruths about Democrats, including the president, is not allowed.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Sat Nov 30, 2013, 03:17 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofserviceThe OP won't respond to history, general knowledge of how the business works, facts disputing nor to the lack of logic in claims. A discusion isn't the point of the OP.
Skinner says: 'You own what you post.' Allow the smear to stand. The reputation being earned on this thread is the punishment meted out at DU.
Let it go.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Now it gets dozens of recs.
Sid