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arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 10:21 AM Nov 2013

Race Relations and the Thermostat

One half of my family is Scotch-Irish get drunk at the beach and burn to a crisp white. The other half is Mexican (of the indigenous, have great aunts who speak more Nahuatl than Spanish when alone together type). When the two groups are together one side can never believe how warm/cold the other likes to keep their house. The Celts liking the cold and the Mexicans no so much. I tend to take after the white side, my brothers the Amerindians. I remember in college I had an African American GF who eventually wouldn't stay over night because "it is like a deep freeze in your apartment." Recently I saw an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm in which Larry David was arguing with his African American house guests The Blacks, about the temperature in the house, with them telling him he kept it too cold and his insisting they liked it too hot. Anybody else encountered this phenomena?

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Race Relations and the Thermostat (Original Post) arely staircase Nov 2013 OP
Interesting post. BTW, it's "Scots-Irish". Scotch is a whiskey. SharonAnn Nov 2013 #1
Actually it is Scotch-Irish arely staircase Nov 2013 #3
The puzzling thing about people and thermostats IDemo Nov 2013 #2
Yes absolutely Populist_Prole Nov 2013 #4
ah yes, sweating the sheets arely staircase Nov 2013 #6
Yecchh! Populist_Prole Nov 2013 #7
all the time but I found it a more male female thing then race/heritage kydo Nov 2013 #5
This, more male female than heritage I think n/t Fumesucker Nov 2013 #8
oh there is definitely a gender component to it as well nt arely staircase Nov 2013 #9
I do not like the cold..but I live in So Cal and would rather burn sticks in the fireplace than turn Tikki Nov 2013 #10

arely staircase

(12,482 posts)
3. Actually it is Scotch-Irish
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 11:17 AM
Nov 2013

Terminology[edit]

The term Scotch-Irish is first known to have been used to refer to people living in Northeastern Ireland. In a letter of April 14, 1573, in reference to Ulster, Elizabeth I of England stated, "We are given to understand that a nobleman named 'Sorley Boy' [MacDonnel] and others, who be of the Scotch-Irish race”.[9] This term continued in usage for over a century[10] before the earliest known American reference appeared in a Maryland affidavit in 1689/90.[11]

Today, Scotch-Irish is an Americanism almost unknown in England, Ireland or Scotland.[8] The term is somewhat unclear because some of the Scotch-Irish have little or no Scottish ancestry at all, as a large number of dissenter families had also been transplanted to Ulster from northern England. Smaller numbers of migrants also came from Wales and the southeast of England, and others still from Flanders, the German Palatinate, and France (such as the French Huguenot ancestors of Davy Crockett).[12] What united these different national groups was their common Calvinist beliefs,[13] and their separation from the established church (Church of England and Church of Ireland in this case). Nevertheless, a large Scottish element in the Plantation of Ulster gave the settlements a Scottish character.

Upon arrival in America, the Scotch-Irish at first usually referred to themselves simply as Irish, without the qualifier Scotch. It was not until a century later, following the surge in Irish immigration after the Great Irish Famine of the 1840s, that the descendants of the earlier arrivals began to commonly call themselves Scotch-Irish to distinguish them from the newer, largely destitute and predominantly Roman Catholic immigrants.[14] The two groups had little interaction in America, as the Scotch-Irish had become settled years earlier primarily in the Appalachian region, while the new wave of Irish American families settled primarily in port cities such as Boston, New York, Chicago, or New Orleans. However, many Irish migrated to the interior in the 19th century to work on large-scale infrastructure projects such as canals and railroads.[15]

The usage Scots-Irish is a relatively recent version of the term. Two early citations include: 1) "a grave, elderly man of the race known in America as " Scots-Irish" (1870);[16] and 2) "Dr. Cochran was of stately presence, of fair and florid complexion, features which testified his Scots-Irish descent" (1884)[17]

English author Kingsley Amis endorsed the traditional Scotch-Irish usage implicitly in noting that "nobody talks about butterscottish or hopscots,...or Scottish pine", and that while Scots or Scottish is how people of Scots origin refer to themselves in Scotland itself, the traditional English usage Scotch continues to be appropriate in "compounds and set phrases".[18]

In Ulster-Scots (or "Ullans&quot , Scotch-Irish Americans are referred to as the Scotch Airish o' Amerikey.[19]

History of the term Scotch-Irish[edit]

Although referenced by Merriam-Webster dictionaries as having first appeared in 1744, the American term Scotch-Irish is undoubtedly older.

An affidavit of William Patent, dated March 15, 1689, in a case against a Mr. Matthew Scarbrough in Somerset County, Maryland, quotes Mr. Patent as saying he was told by Scarbrough that "...it was no more sin to kill me then to kill a dogg, or any Scotch Irish dogg..."[20]

Leyburn cites several early American uses of the term.[21]
The earliest is a report in June 1695, by Sir Thomas Laurence, Secretary of Maryland, that "In the two counties of Dorchester and Somerset, where the Scotch-Irish are numerous, they clothe themselves by their linen and woolen manufactures."
In September 1723, Rev. George Ross, Rector of Immanuel Church in New Castle, Delaware, wrote in reference to their anti-Church of England stance that, "They call themselves Scotch-Irish,...and the bitterest railers against the church that ever trod upon American ground."
Another Church of England clergyman from Lewes, Delaware, commented in 1723 that "...great numbers of Irish (who usually call themselves Scotch-Irish) have transplanted themselves and their families from the north of Ireland."
During the 1740s, a Marylander was accused of having murdered the sheriff of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, after calling the sheriff and his assistants "damned Scotch-Irish sons of bitches."[22]

The Oxford English Dictionary says the first use of the term Scotch-Irish came in Pennsylvania in 1744. Its citations are:
1744 W. MARSHE Jrnl. 21 June in Collections of the Massachusetts Historical Society. (1801) 1st Ser. VII. 177: 'The inhabitants [of Lancaster, Pa.] are chiefly High-Dutch, Scotch-Irish, some few English families, and unbelieving Israelites."
1789 J. MORSE Amer. Geogr. 313: "[The Irish of Pennsylvania] have sometimes been called Scotch-Irish, to denote their double descent."
1876 BANCROFT Hist. U.S. IV. iii. 333: "But its convenient proximity to the border counties of Pennsylvania and Virginia had been observed by Scotch-Irish Presbyterians and other bold and industrious men."
1883 Harper's Mag. Feb. 421/2: "The so-called Scotch-Irish are the descendants of the Englishmen and Lowland Scotch who began to move over to Ulster in 1611."

In Albion's Seed: Four British Folkways in America, historian David Hackett Fischer asserts:


Some historians describe these immigrants as "Ulster Irish" or "Northern Irish". It is true that many sailed from the province of Ulster... part of much larger flow which drew from the lowlands of Scotland, the north of England, and every side of the Irish Sea. Many scholars call these people Scotch-Irish. That expression is an Americanism, rarely used in Britain and much resented by the people to whom it was attached.

Fischer prefers to speak of "borderers" (referring to the historically war-torn England-Scotland border) as the population ancestral to the "backcountry" "cultural stream" (one of the four major and persistent cultural streams he identifies in American history) and notes the borderers were not purely Celtic but also had substantial Anglo-Saxon and Viking or Scandinavian roots, and were quite different from Celtic-speaking groups like the Scottish Highlanders or Irish (that is, Gaelic-speaking and Roman Catholic).

An example of the use of the term is found in A History of Ulster: "Ulster Presbyterians – known as the 'Scotch Irish' – were already accustomed to being on the move, and clearing and defending their land."[23]

Other terms used to describe the Scotch-Irish include Northern Irish[original research?][dubious – discuss][citation needed] or Irish Presbyterians.[original research?][citation needed]

While Scotch-Irish is the term most used in scholarship to describe these people, the use of the term can draw ire from both Scots and Irish. To the Scots, the term Scotch is derogatory when referring to a person or people, and should be applied only to whisky. Many Irish have claimed that such a distinction should not be used, and that those called Scotch-Irish are simply Irish.[8] However, as one scholar observed, "...in this country [USA], where they have been called Scotch-Irish for over two hundred years, it would be absurd to give them a name by which they are not known here... Here their name is Scotch-Irish; let us call them by it." [24]

The word "Scotch" was the favoured adjective as a designation — it literally means "... of Scotland". People in Scotland refer to themselves as Scots, or adjectivally/collectively as Scots or as being Scottish, rather than Scotch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_American#History_of_the_term_Scotch-Irish

Yes I know, people from Scotland are Scots, not Scotch.

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
2. The puzzling thing about people and thermostats
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 10:49 AM
Nov 2013

Why is it that folks feel they need to be toasty warm in the wintertime and cool in the summer? If you were to put most people into the same temp they keep their house at the opposite end of the calendar year, they'd be jumping off the couch to 'correct' the thermostat.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
4. Yes absolutely
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 01:51 PM
Nov 2013

Even in the immediate family. I'm of mixed southern european, Scandinavian, and slavic ancestry, with the characteristics of each spread very haphazardly and illogically from person to person. For example: Fair-haired/fair-skinned but with thick blood, darker skin/hair with an aversion to heat, fair-hair/skin with thin blood ( likes heat ) and darker hair/skin heat lovers. The extremities can cause real problems and has often broken the mood of what could be good times when we get together. Me, I like it cooler.

For example, we held a get-together at a nice riverfront restaurant with outside tables one early fall evening. It was perhaps in the mid-high 60's and half of us were reveling at the beauty and pleasantness of it all and a few who just complained and complained at how chilly they were; and you could see it in their faces they were suffering. Those of us with extra gear offered it to them but they just ended up going inside and it really broke the mood.

If I visit they'll insist I stay with them rather than a motel but holy hell does the thermostat issue surface, especially at night. I understand some differences but I just couldn't sleep it was so stifling. Finally I went to open the guest room window and all hell breaks loose as the alarm goes off and I hear them in a panic and then once they find out it's me they franticly call the security place to tell them it's false alarm.

When my mother visits me we each must get up 5 times and raise/lower the A/C. I'll wake up feeling like the air is thick as mud with my pillow and sheets soaked with sweat and make it cooler. She'll get up and sense impending hypothermia with the temp at a bone-chilling 72 and turn it off. And so on. I visit her and she keeps her house at like 400. It could be 15F outside but I'll be in her guest room with the window open laying spread eagle on the bed with no covers on.

Riding in cars is bad too. My mother and one of my sisters are SUPER sensitive to cold and even with the heat at full blast you could see it in their faces and the way they tuck their elbows in to their torso that even that's not enough. Meanwhile my nasal passages are absolutely parched to a crisp and I'll eventually try to crack a window and gasp for some air like a dog. They'll protest but I'll get mad and shriek "Jesus Christ! I can't breathe!!!!".

It's getting worse the older they get.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
7. Yecchh!
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 02:51 PM
Nov 2013

I change my clothes 3 time/day in the summer. If i could clog my pores to prevent sweating, I would. If it doesn't evaporate, it won't cool.

kydo

(2,679 posts)
5. all the time but I found it a more male female thing then race/heritage
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 02:01 PM
Nov 2013

Men (that I know) tend to like it colder. Women (again that I know) like it not so cold. Of course where one is from plays a part but more the location itself then race/heritage. And that generally is only at first after someone has been in a place for a while they generally get used to the climate.

Tikki

(14,556 posts)
10. I do not like the cold..but I live in So Cal and would rather burn sticks in the fireplace than turn
Sat Nov 23, 2013, 05:48 PM
Nov 2013

on the furnace.
Our typical gas bill is under $20.00 a month. So I wait until it is below 40 degrees at night for one week (usually the third week in January) and I turn on the furnace during the early AM.

We are a white family of European background, I guess…but I am 1/4 Sioux.


Tikki
ps winter is not my favorite time of the year, too cold, too dark, too closed in.

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