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Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:03 AM

NOTE: Be sure NOT to miss this video of weeping crowds on Kim Jong-il's passing!

It's a great reminder of why totalitarian regimes suck.

Everyone you see in this video is either acting out of fear for their lives or because they have been brainwashed as have generations of North Koreans before them.

I was thinking about it this morning and from everything I've seen or read a German under Hitler's Nazi rule could probably still express acres of dissent more than a North Korean living under Kim Jong-il. The national hysteria over Jong-il or his father is much more reminiscent of the psychology of Jonestown, IMO.

Or, put Orwell's way, this is a taste of what that boot looks like, stamping on a face forever:



PB

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Reply NOTE: Be sure NOT to miss this video of weeping crowds on Kim Jong-il's passing! (Original post)
Poll_Blind Dec 2011 OP
hlthe2b Dec 2011 #1
Poll_Blind Dec 2011 #7
hlthe2b Dec 2011 #10
Poll_Blind Dec 2011 #11
hlthe2b Dec 2011 #17
kestrel91316 Dec 2011 #19
hlthe2b Dec 2011 #20
kestrel91316 Dec 2011 #25
hlthe2b Dec 2011 #26
dmosh42 Dec 2011 #2
Stuckinthebush Dec 2011 #3
Poll_Blind Dec 2011 #22
MADem Dec 2011 #4
izquierdista Dec 2011 #6
MADem Dec 2011 #23
LeftinOH Dec 2011 #5
spanone Dec 2011 #8
JNelson6563 Dec 2011 #9
frazzled Dec 2011 #12
backscatter712 Dec 2011 #13
grantcart Dec 2011 #14
sufrommich Dec 2011 #15
polly7 Dec 2011 #16
grantcart Dec 2011 #18
NYC Liberal Dec 2011 #21
JBoy Dec 2011 #24

Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:07 AM

1. Were Americans all brainwashed when they lined up in tears to watch RFK's body pass on the train?

Or when the nation publicly weeped over FDR's death in the midst of WWII-- or JFK?

Look, I agree that there is probably considerable brainwashing that goes on in NK and ignorance of anything outside the country that would help them put their government and leaders in perspective. But, it is also possible, that, for whatever reason, they genuinely liked their leader.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:20 AM

7. But it was not REQUIRED of Americans to do so.

I have to admit, I'm a little taken aback that you'd make the comparison and so I really don't have much of a response beyond "There is no earthly comparison between the two".

The North Korean people have been serially abused by hereditary dictators starting with Kim Il-Sung, initially installed by the Soviet Union, since the mid to late 1940's. They have been starved, oppressed, brainwashed and executed since.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:44 AM

10. I am in no way defending the NK regime so don't dare start that.

Grief is an individual response and there is no way to know with certainty how much brain-washing or totalitarian requirements or anything else is behind what we are seeing.

For Gawd's sakes, we don't even know HOW OLD Kim Jong Il's son, the expected heir, is. And, yet you act as though we have complete knowledge of what goes on in that country and in the minds of its people. We do not. We can not. That said, I repeat that I am NOT defending a totalitarian regime and to suggest otherwise would be a serious mistake on your part.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:50 AM

11. "But, it is also possible, that, for whatever reason, they genuinely liked their leader."

That's what caused me to respond the way I did. I didn't say you were defending the North Korean government- I said I didn't see the comparison between the outpouring of grief over the deaths of RFK, FDR or JFK as being comparable to Kim Jong-il.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 10:13 AM

17. You and I have no way of knowing what it means to be North Korean and how the people have processed

what they have experienced. We really don't. It is an enigma--even to the South Koreans.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 11:56 AM

19. Did you seriously compare Kim Jong Il to RFK and FDR??????

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 11:59 AM

20. No... Any intellectual honest appraisal would see I was comparing grief across cultures...

kestrel you know me far better than to suggest such a thing. You REALLY do.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 03:17 PM

25. I guess I just don't even consider the Korean display to be "grief".

It's theater.

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Response to kestrel91316 (Reply #25)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 03:52 PM

26. I'm sure a lot of it is...

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:08 AM

2. Probably more tears because son will be in power for another 40 years!!

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:08 AM

3. When your leader is a god

then I guess you tend to freak out when he dies.

What this also indicates is how difficult it will be to eventually deprogram that society.

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Response to Stuckinthebush (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 01:11 PM

22. Yeah, that's something I've seen discussed a lot, and without an easy answer.

What do you do if the house of cards comes tumbling down? Assuming it isn't some conflagratory self-immolative act, how exactly do you deprogram 28 million people? Especially given the overt hostility programmed into them against the South Koreans.

I was also watching a show earlier this morning where another scenario was discussed- if the North Korean regime collapses in some real way, South Korea is seriously concerned about a situation where you have 28 all million people (obviously hyperbole, but it would be massive) trying to cross over into the South just to be fed?

No easy answers no matter which way you cut it. I've heard it said the best option, if Kim Jong-un is receptive to reforms, China (their only ally) might try to take responsibility for repairing some of the damage and opening the country "up"- which would give time for the North Korean population (ideally) time to be normalized, socially, with the South Koreans.

PB

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:11 AM

4. Looks like "Where will I get my next meal?" tears....

That's what happens when you get everything from the Fearless Leader--they believe they can't live without him.

If you changed the soundtrack, some of the crying could pass for laughing. I guess it's true that "If you don't laugh, you'll cry" in some circumstances.

I can't help but notice that they found an ancient, heavily airbrushed picture of the deceased to put on display....doesn't look a thing like the guy did in recent years.

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Response to MADem (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:18 AM

6. They've been singing that line for years.

 

Check out the lyrics of 'No Motherland Without You'



I'll bet every North Korean hears it at least once a day.

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Response to izquierdista (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 02:11 PM

23. Jesus! Our Country is unable to survive without you!

Such a peppy little tune, peppered with such dire consequences! If they believe that, no wonder they're cryin' and crappin'! They're probably expecting to be zapped any minute.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:15 AM

5. A lot of them are only doing that because they are expected to. Work supervisors, police, or

anyone in the position to "snitch" or make an official observation could notice that 'so-and-so' may not be visibly distraught enough -and needs some "encouragement". What a complete hellhole.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:21 AM

8. tears of joy ???

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:40 AM

9. They could be genuinely scared

Sure Jr.'s going to step up and all but still, the devil you know is less scary than the devil you don't.

Julie

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 09:58 AM

12. Maybe this is the way (North) Korean culture is expected to react to death

I don't know. But I do know different cultures have different traditions and protocols. We expect people to remain somber and quiet, tearful but not out of control; other cultures actually require open displays of wailing and rending of garments, etc.

I know at a Jewish funeral, this rending of garments, probably once a real public display that might have looked as hysterical as the video, is now acted out only symbolically, where the close family members wear a black ribbon, and then the rabbi comes over and cuts or tears it. It's been reduced to a mere convention now.

What I'm saying is: this may not be the place for political interpretation here. Maybe it's about cultural difference. We shouldn't be too culturally myopic.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 10:01 AM

13. Mourn Dear Leader! On pain of death!!! n/t

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 10:03 AM

14. These are the protected minders of the system


complete nutjobs

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 10:07 AM

15. In Best Korea, it's mourn or die. nt

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #15)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 10:09 AM

16. That's what I was thinking.

They look forced, and I don't see tears.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 10:35 AM

18. gives us an opportunity to see other weird clips from NK

brilliant leader's greatest idea

&feature=related

working hard for the brilliant leader

&feature=related

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 12:18 PM

21. Sorry, but a lot of this looks like acting to me.

This is in the capital, where only certain people are allowed to live to begin with, and it's coming from the state news agency. Some of it may be genuine, but it looks like people hamming it up for the cameras.

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Response to Poll_Blind (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 02:20 PM

24. Golf fans. They'll never see another 38-under par round, with 5 holes in one.

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