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Wed Nov 13, 2013, 03:55 PM

Adoption harms women.

Some studies on the long-term psychological sequelae to adoption:

J Obstet Gynecol Neonatal Nurs. 1999 Jul-Aug;28(4):395-400.
Related Articles, Links

Postadoptive reactions of the relinquishing mother: a review.

Askren HA, Bloom KC.

Deer Valley OB/GYN, Mesa, AZ, USA.

OBJECTIVE: To review the literature addressing the process of relinquishment as it relates to the birth mother. DATA SOURCES: Computerized searches in CINAHL; Article 1 st, PsycFIRST, and SocioAbs databases, using the keywords adoption and relinquishment; and ancestral bibliographies. STUDY SELECTION: Articles from indexed journals in the English language relevant to the keywords were evaluated. No studies were located before 1978. Studies that sampled only an adolescent population were excluded. Twelve studies met the inclusion criteria and were included in the analysis. DATA EXTRACTION: Data were extracted and information was organized under the following headings: grief reaction, long-term effects, efforts to resolve, and influences on the relinquishment experience. DATA SYNTHESIS: A grief reaction unique to the relinquishing mother was identified. Although this reaction consists of features characteristic of the normal grief reaction, these features persist and often lead to chronic, unresolved grief. CONCLUSIONS: The relinquishing mother is at risk for long-term physical, psychologic, and social repercussions. Although interventions have been proposed, little is known about their effectiveness in preventing or alleviating these repercussions.

Med J Aust. 1986 Feb 3;144(3):117-9.
Related Articles, Links

Psychological disability in women who relinquish a baby for adoption.

Condon JT.

During 1986, approximately 2000 women in Australia are likely to relinquish a baby for adoption. A study is presented of 20 relinquishing mothers that demonstrates a very high incidence of pathological grief reactions which have failed to resolve although many years have elapsed since the relinquishment. This group had abnormally high scores for depression and psychosomatic symptoms on the Middlesex Hospital questionnaire. Factors that militate against the resolution of grief after relinquishment are discussed. Guidelines for the medical profession that are aimed at preventing psychological disability in relinquishing mothers are outlined.

Community Health Stud. 1990;14(2):180-9.
Related Articles, Links

Erratum in:
Community Health Stud 1990;14(3):314.

Social factors associated with the decision to relinquish a baby for adoption.

Najman JM, Morrison J, Keeping JD, Andersen MJ, Williams GM.

Department of Social and Preventive Medicine, University of Queensland.

Little is known about the characteristics, social circumstances and mental health of women who give a child up for adoption. This paper reports data from a longitudinal study of 8556 women interviewed initially at their first obstetrical visit. In total, 7668 proceeded to give birth to a live singleton baby, of which 64 then relinquished the baby for adoption. Relinquishing mothers were predominantly 18 years of age or younger, in the lowest family income group, single, having an unplanned and/or unwanted baby and reported that they were not living with a partner. These women were somewhat more likely to manifest symptoms of anxiety and depression both prior, and subsequent to, the adoption, but the majority of relinquishing mothers were of 'normal' mental health. The decision to relinquish a baby appears to be a consequence of an unwanted pregnancy experienced by an economically deprived single mother rather than the result of emotional or psychological/psychiatric considerations. These findings document a particular dimension of the impact of poverty on health.


No wonder fewer than 2% of women relinquish newborns to adoption http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/ad/ad306.pdf

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Reply Adoption harms women. (Original post)
REP Nov 2013 OP
Scout Nov 2013 #1
wickerwoman Nov 2013 #20
StevieM Nov 2013 #96
Beausoir Nov 2013 #128
idwiyo Nov 2013 #143
Scout Nov 2013 #151
ohheckyeah Nov 2013 #158
leftyohiolib Nov 2013 #2
REP Nov 2013 #4
roody Nov 2013 #5
Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #24
PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #48
Mariana Nov 2013 #114
Decaffeinated Nov 2013 #145
PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #17
me b zola Nov 2013 #21
REP Nov 2013 #33
HERVEPA Nov 2013 #28
nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #34
Raine1967 Nov 2013 #66
Warpy Nov 2013 #82
LineLineLineReply .
PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #83
nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #86
SidDithers Nov 2013 #101
Tumbulu Nov 2013 #106
laundry_queen Nov 2013 #123
idwiyo Nov 2013 #144
Major Nikon Nov 2013 #162
CTyankee Nov 2013 #3
REP Nov 2013 #6
CTyankee Nov 2013 #7
REP Nov 2013 #8
CTyankee Nov 2013 #9
REP Nov 2013 #12
me b zola Nov 2013 #23
Auntie Bush Nov 2013 #36
REP Nov 2013 #47
Walk away Nov 2013 #69
Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #111
Beausoir Nov 2013 #121
boston bean Nov 2013 #10
REP Nov 2013 #11
me b zola Nov 2013 #25
Jenoch Nov 2013 #13
REP Nov 2013 #14
Jenoch Nov 2013 #16
REP Nov 2013 #18
Jenoch Nov 2013 #22
REP Nov 2013 #31
Jenoch Nov 2013 #41
Raine1967 Nov 2013 #72
B2G Nov 2013 #74
Raine1967 Nov 2013 #80
StevieM Nov 2013 #97
Jenoch Nov 2013 #120
StevieM Nov 2013 #122
Jenoch Nov 2013 #126
CTyankee Nov 2013 #15
rug Nov 2013 #19
B2G Nov 2013 #26
REP Nov 2013 #29
rug Nov 2013 #32
REP Nov 2013 #35
rug Nov 2013 #40
REP Nov 2013 #42
rug Nov 2013 #44
REP Nov 2013 #49
rug Nov 2013 #57
REP Nov 2013 #85
rug Nov 2013 #93
StevieM Nov 2013 #98
rug Nov 2013 #117
gollygee Nov 2013 #56
rug Nov 2013 #67
REP Nov 2013 #68
rug Nov 2013 #70
REP Nov 2013 #71
rug Nov 2013 #73
StevieM Nov 2013 #99
gollygee Nov 2013 #147
StevieM Nov 2013 #116
me b zola Nov 2013 #27
REP Nov 2013 #30
B2G Nov 2013 #37
REP Nov 2013 #39
B2G Nov 2013 #45
REP Nov 2013 #50
B2G Nov 2013 #52
REP Nov 2013 #53
B2G Nov 2013 #54
REP Nov 2013 #64
StevieM Nov 2013 #104
me b zola Nov 2013 #84
B2G Nov 2013 #89
me b zola Nov 2013 #95
StevieM Nov 2013 #102
kwassa Nov 2013 #108
StevieM Nov 2013 #110
REP Nov 2013 #115
StevieM Nov 2013 #119
me b zola Nov 2013 #153
kwassa Nov 2013 #154
me b zola Nov 2013 #155
kwassa Nov 2013 #156
me b zola Nov 2013 #157
REP Nov 2013 #113
PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #43
StevieM Nov 2013 #100
Marrah_G Nov 2013 #38
B2G Nov 2013 #46
Marrah_G Nov 2013 #51
newcriminal Nov 2013 #55
Union Scribe Nov 2013 #58
B2G Nov 2013 #59
Sheldon Cooper Nov 2013 #105
REP Nov 2013 #60
B2G Nov 2013 #61
REP Nov 2013 #65
me b zola Nov 2013 #90
gollygee Nov 2013 #63
StevieM Nov 2013 #94
gollygee Nov 2013 #148
newcriminal Nov 2013 #75
pnwmom Nov 2013 #127
REP Nov 2013 #140
pnwmom Nov 2013 #141
boston bean Nov 2013 #146
pnwmom Nov 2013 #152
ohheckyeah Nov 2013 #160
StevieM Nov 2013 #92
pnwmom Nov 2013 #125
Beausoir Nov 2013 #131
ohheckyeah Nov 2013 #159
Beausoir Nov 2013 #163
StevieM Nov 2013 #103
uppityperson Nov 2013 #62
B2G Nov 2013 #76
uppityperson Nov 2013 #77
Warpy Nov 2013 #78
REP Nov 2013 #79
PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #81
nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #87
REP Nov 2013 #88
nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #91
arely staircase Nov 2013 #107
kwassa Nov 2013 #109
REP Nov 2013 #112
Beausoir Nov 2013 #130
Beausoir Nov 2013 #118
me b zola Nov 2013 #133
Kurska Nov 2013 #135
REP Nov 2013 #136
Kurska Nov 2013 #138
Violet_Crumble Nov 2013 #139
Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #124
StevieM Nov 2013 #129
Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #132
StevieM Nov 2013 #137
Blue_In_AK Nov 2013 #142
Kurska Nov 2013 #134
SidDithers Nov 2013 #149
Nye Bevan Nov 2013 #150
Union Scribe Nov 2013 #161

Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:10 PM

1. i've been lucky and careful....

and never been been pregnant. i don't know if i would choose abortion or not, entirely depends on the circumstances.

but i am pretty damn sure there is NO WAY i could give birth and then give up a baby for adoption. no way. THAT i would regret, i'm sure.

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Response to Scout (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:41 PM

20. I'm in mostly the same boat.

But if I was accidentally pregnant I would consider giving a child up for adoption to a family I already knew well that was fabulous and desperately wanted a kid. I'm lucky enough to know two couples (including an aunt and uncle) that would be amazing parents and would keep me in the loop at just the right level- holiday pics a few times a year and then contact when the kid is older if he or she asks for it. Totally aware that this is *luck* and doesn't apply to other peoples' circumstances.

No way would I send a kid out to be raised by a couple I chose out of a catalog and met once or twice for coffee. If I didn't know any great couples, my only two choices would be abortion or keeping the baby.

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Response to wickerwoman (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:37 PM

96. Pre-birth matching is inherently coercive. It puts the prospective birthmother in a position of

feeling like she owes it to the infertile couple to give them her baby.

And I wouldn't be so positive about how it would play out. For many adoptive couples, once they have your baby, you become the enemy and the adoption closes.

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Response to Scout (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:58 AM

128. So..you would abort your child....no problem.. But adoption of that same child is not an option:?



Let me just see if I get your post correct.

You would abort your child and have no issues with that.
But you would never let that child live and be placed with a loving family because you are too selfish to think about anyone else but yourself?


Is that what you are trying to say?

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Response to Beausoir (Reply #128)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 03:41 AM

143. It's a foetus. Her Body Her Choice. I assume you support Democratic Party platform.

Including that part about women's Right to Chose. Yes?

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Response to Beausoir (Reply #128)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 11:34 AM

151. reading comprehension honey--practice it

"i don't know if i would choose abortion or not, entirely depends on the circumstances. "

no, i wouldn't give one up for adoption, as i am not livestock, bound to breed for others. there are no guarantees about "loving" families, and what about the child, growing up wondering why they weren't wanted by their birth mother?

and i don't really care if some jerk on the internet thinks i'm "selfish" because i know i'm not, and "selfishness" has nothing to do with abortion.

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Response to Beausoir (Reply #128)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 01:23 AM

158. Judgmental much? n/t

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Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:15 PM

2. i bet given the choice they would choose being adopted rather than being aborted

 

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:17 PM

4. Who?

Non-sentient fetuses? They're not capable of caring.

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:22 PM

5. They would never know the difference.

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Response to roody (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:52 PM

24. By that logic it's a-ok to blast someone in a coma...

 

There has to be more to it.

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Response to Decaffeinated (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:45 PM

48. Seriously? Textbook anti-choicer.

The second attack on the pro-choice argument that potential people are not actual people is through the harm principle. For example, suppose a couple planning to have an abortion decides at the last moment to have the baby instead. They raise their daughter Susan, and she has a relatively happy, normal life. Both parents agree, upon watching Susan get married, that aborting her would have been the ultimate violation of her human rights.

Pro-life advocates often use a more direct way of making this point. They ask: "What if this aborted baby had been you?"

This is indeed a sensational point, but, truth be told, it's actually a non sequitur. The fact is, if you had never been born, you would not be around to mourn your potential non-existence. In other words, once Susan had reached an adult age, taking all her experiences from her would be an obvious crime, because there would be a tangible victim involved: the 30-year old Susan. But robbing a future person of these experiences, a person who will never exist, is impossible: it's like trying to loot a store that will never be built. (Here we should make a clarification: it is indeed possible to harm future people who will exist, such as those future generations who must clean up our pollution and pay our deficits. But it is impossible to harm a person who will never exist. Try to imagine doing this.)


...

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-personhood.htm

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Response to Decaffeinated (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:49 PM

114. Someone in a coma is a person. A fetus is not a person.

Your analogy fails.

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Response to Mariana (Reply #114)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:27 AM

145. Circular logic...

 

My point was that it has to be more than whether or not someone can care about whether they live or die.

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:32 PM

17. HA! the old Reagan "I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born" argument

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:47 PM

21. Being adopted is complicated

I personally think its the biggest mind-fuck ever. I have had times that if you asked me I would have told you that I would rather have been aborted. I was surprised to find that their are other adoptees who have had those same feelings. Then again, depression & suicide are higher in the adoptee (and relinquishing mother) community than in the general population.

Every adoptee has their own complicated story and feelings. For me, I absolutely despise when people want to make me their "poster-child" in their desire to limit a woman's right to health care.

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Response to me b zola (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:26 PM

33. The adoptees I know are very, very pro-choice

And being made the poster child for anything because of something beyond your control must be infuriating!! Especially something so complicated as adoption.

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:14 PM

28. Wow. What a nonsensical comment

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:26 PM

34. And you probably don't even realize what an anti-choice talking point that is...

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:00 PM

66. Please explain further.

Because My first reaction to reading this comment, here on DU, is this:



and also





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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:49 PM

82. Do you always eradicate the women from this?

Do antiabortionists never consider the fully human, living, breathing, and thinking person called a woman in their antiabortion equations? Or do they subscribe to the mediaeval view that women are nothing but animated flowerpots into which a man places his seed, their wishes and lives to be disregarded?

No antiabortion person has ever addressed the damage forced childbirth does to women. They can't. Everything breaks down when they have to admit there is an adult human being with her own civil rights involved.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #82)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:50 PM

83. .

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Response to Warpy (Reply #82)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:09 PM

86. So perfectly stated. I want to save a copy of this post for future reference.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #82)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:19 PM

101. "animated flowerpots"!!...




Fucking nailed it.

Sid

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Response to Warpy (Reply #82)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:40 PM

106. As usual, perfectly stated!

I cannot get any of the forced birthers to discuss this, they just change the subject.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #82)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:24 AM

123. +1 nt

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 03:45 AM

144. Comment straight out of forced-birthers manual.

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Response to leftyohiolib (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 02:49 AM

162. Pinocchio can't be wrong!

One has to wonder how many spermies and eggs carelessly discarded in the garbage would have chosen life if they had just had the chance, and what about all the potential progeny of those helpless eggs and spermies? We're talking at least a Brazillion potential human life forms on a weekly basis alone.

The horror!

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Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:17 PM

3. I was told that by a social worker who had a counseling practice and saw women who had

relinguished their newborns (this was before Roe). Her patients were older women who were still living with the regret and grief they had over giving up their babies. She saw the damage firsthand. These were the women who had been sent to these homes for pregnant, unmarried girls and their parents had made up stories about their going for extended visits with relatives. It was common in those days, particularly for upper middle class teens.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:22 PM

6. Many women and children were victims of Georgia Tann and her ilk

Georgia Tann not only "accepted" babies from unmarried women, she stole them from women (and families) she deemed too poor to have them. She sold them to wealthy customers, such as Joan Crawford ... or if she didn't think she could get a good price for a child, she had them killed. Hundreds of them. She is considered the Mother of Modern Adoption.

http://www.nchgs.org/html/a_story_of_stolen_babies.html

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Response to REP (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:24 PM

7. geez, what a monster!

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:27 PM

8. Yet she was lauded by Eleanor Roosevelt, Pearl Buck and others

The very high death rate of her Home was noted, but it took years and years to do anything about it - there was just too much money being made off so much human misery.

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Response to REP (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:01 PM

9. Human trafficking is loathsome but it is inevitable when sanctions against abortion are in place.

It is another reason that legalization is not only humane and respectful of women's moral agency, it is respectful of life, since it helps prevent such human misery.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:52 PM

23. Georgia Tann is largely responsible for the framework of modern adoptions

She was the one that lobbied to seal birth records of adoptees, disconnecting and keeping a person's heritage and family a secret from them. Prior to Tann, adoptions mostly occurred within extended families and their was no legal secrecy.

Tann turned adoption into a for-profit industry. Supply & demand rather than assisting a child who needed a home.

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Response to REP (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:30 PM

36. And wasn't it Joan crawford who abused her child so horribly

in Mommy Dearest? I had no idea she adopted that baby...poor thing! I wonder if the mother ever found out what happened to her child? I've forgotten the story behind the torture.





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Response to Auntie Bush (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:45 PM

47. Georgia Tann sold Joan Crawford three children

Other celebrities of the day bought children from her, including June Allyson.

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Response to REP (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:04 PM

69. That's so Republican!

I had one explain to me that if people who couldn't support their children or had been deemed a "poor influence" on them should have their children taken away and raised to be productive citizens.

They don't like Health Insurance for Everyone but whole scale kidnapping and brainwashing didn't seem to bother this woman at all.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:39 PM

111. Been there, done that.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:09 AM

121. I've been told by people that had practice with adoption

that you are spreading undeucated gossip in order to further some stupid political point of view.

It is common in these days, particularly for upper class white women who have no idea what they are talking about.

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Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 05:21 PM

10. was wondering where you were my sister... you can always be depended on to provide

the stats and studies!

Thank you!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:09 PM

11. Glad to help!

Adoption is great thing when it is in the best interests of the child: dangerous, abusive parents; no parents or family to take the child in - but it is not a "solution" to an unwanted pregnancy.

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Response to REP (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:54 PM

25. Thank you. This cannot be said often enough

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Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:23 PM

13. I have three cousins (siblings) and two friends (also siblings) who were adopted as infants.

I am sure they are grateful to their birth mothers. I don't know if any of them have either searched for or found their birth mothers.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:26 PM

14. I'm sure they are. I hope their mothers relinquished of their own free will.

Most do not - not during the Baby Scoop Era, and not now.

Read about it in The Nation

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Response to REP (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:30 PM

16. I have no idea of the circumstances of their adoptions.

Using the word 'most' seems a bit extreme to me.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:33 PM

18. Read the article and see about extreme

Also, see the link above about Georgia Tann, The Mother of Modern Adoption. She literally stole children to sell and had the ones that wouldn't bring her enough money killed. That's extreme.

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Response to REP (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:48 PM

22. I read the first page.

My only point is the word most. Are there some numbers corroberating that 'most' adoptions are done with mothers who do not wish to give up their babies?

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:23 PM

31. Yes.

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Response to REP (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:36 PM

41. I read the entire article and you are mistaken.

I really do not have a dog in this fight. I think coercive adoption as described in that article is not the right way to handle adoptions. I am also correct in saying that no where in that article does it state that 'most' adoptions in the U.S. are coercive adoptions. I like to deal in facts, not hyperbole. If you have an objective source to support your claim, I would read it.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:10 PM

72. how is a Genealogical society not objective?

ttp://www.nchgs.org/html/a_story_of_stolen_babies.html

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Response to Raine1967 (Reply #72)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:12 PM

74. You're going on a 100 year old case study?

Shall we condemn abortions because of the practices back then as well?

This thread has lost its mind.

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Response to B2G (Reply #74)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:36 PM

80. It actually hasn't.

The remnants of what Tann did are still being felt today.

No woman should ever be pressured to feel like she should give birth and give a child up for adoption when she never wanted to be pregnant in the first place.

That is the point of this OP.

Adoption is not an alternative to abortion.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:50 PM

97. Using the word "most" seems accurate to me

Near as I can tell, coerced adoptions are the rule--not the exception.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #97)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:07 AM

120. I prefer facts to 'seems accurate'.

"Near as I can tell"?

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #120)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:19 AM

122. The fact is that birth mothers never forget their children, and in many cases grieve for them

for the remainder of their days.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #122)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:48 AM

126. I do not dispute that, and never have.

I also believe that women who abort their babies never forget them and in many cases grieve for them for the remainder of their days.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:29 PM

15. About ten years ago I worked with a young woman who opted to have her baby and did not

wish to marry the father. Boy, did he put her through an ordeal. He made her get a paternity test, even tho they had been together as a couple (in high school) not a one night stand. She proved his paternity and he now pays child support. She had supportive parents who helped her raise the boy while she worked. It was difficult. But she was strongly pro-choice.

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Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 06:35 PM

19. Outlaw adoption.

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Response to rug (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:08 PM

26. You forgot the sarcasm thingy

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Response to rug (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:18 PM

29. Outlaw coercive "crisis pregnancy centers"

Adoption is great thing when it is in the best interests of the child: dangerous, abusive parents; no parents or family to take the child in - but it is not a "solution" to an unwanted pregnancy.

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Response to REP (Reply #29)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:24 PM

32. It's a choice. All choices have risks and benefits.

For many it is indeed an (imperfect) solution, as are all other choices.

The best interests of the child standard is used when determining custody, not pregnancy. Unless you're now saying there are other considerations at play beyond the woman's.

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Response to rug (Reply #32)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:28 PM

35. Adoption is an alternative to parenting, not pregnancy.

There are two options to pregnancy: remain pregnant or don't.

There are two options once birth has happened: raise the child or relinquish to someone else.

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Response to REP (Reply #35)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:34 PM

40. You're repeating yourself. So will I.

Of course adoption is an alternative to an unwanted pregnancy. (You managed to drop the adjective this time.) Do you think pregnant women do not consider adoption while deciding what to do??

These decisions are not made by sound bites.

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Response to rug (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:39 PM

42. I think women think about these things before the pregnancy even occurs

And something like over 98% decide that remaining pregnant and relinquishing the newborn to adoption is simply not an option for them.

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Response to REP (Reply #42)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:42 PM

44. It is an option. One they elected not to take. That's choice.

Others elect to take it. Are you trying to stigmatize them?

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Response to rug (Reply #44)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:47 PM

49. Your argument makes little sense. Adoption is a choice AFTER the pregnancy is over.

I don't know how to make that clearer to you. Pictures maybe?

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Response to REP (Reply #49)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:55 PM

57. It makes emininent sense. I'll break it down for you.

1) A woman is pregnant.

2) The pregnancy is unwanted.

3) The woman considers her choices, all of which the law guarantees, while still pregnant.

3a) Termination
3b) Birth
3bi) Raise the child
3bii) Have another raise the child

If I read you right, you contend the woman does not consider that last item until after the baby draws a breath. That not only makes little sense, it's factually untrue.

Now, if you do have a picture that shows me to be wrong, I'd love to see it.

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Response to rug (Reply #57)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:02 PM

85. Okay.



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Response to REP (Reply #85)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:28 PM

93. Choice.

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Response to rug (Reply #57)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:06 PM

98. A pregnant woman IS NOT a birth mother. She is an expectant mother.

Even if an adoption plan has been developed. She still has the right to raise the child. But the coercion and the pressure to relinquish is usually intense. Pre-birth matching should not be allowed.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #98)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:05 AM

117. What do you think the expectant mother is expecting?

In any event, no one is suggesting coercion. It should be a woman's free choice, whatever she decides.

I don't think your suggested ban honors that.

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Response to rug (Reply #44)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:55 PM

56. The thing is

at least among women I've known . . .

They get pregnant and they decide they want an abortion, or that they don't want an abortion, but aren't 100% sure what they'll do. They do seem to be different choices. Like a woman will know adoption is a choice available if she doesn't want an abortion, but that is a separate decision.

People present it like it's an either/or choice and it's more complicated than that. And then people who think of it as a simple either/or choice don't understand all the difficulties of pregnancy and birth - and not just physical issues - and then the emotional issues associated with adoption.

Adoption is an available choice but those opposed to abortion present it as a simple alternative to abortion, and it really isn't. You have to first decide if you can keep your job if you are pregnant and have a ton of doctor appointments and potential morning sickeness and absences and then the birth and recovery and absences. You also have to figure out if the father will agree with adoption. And you have to take into account the dynamics of that relationship, and how that discussion will go. And if the relationship is a violent one, you have to consider what will happen if he refuses to relinquish the baby for adoption - will you be stuck in that relationship forever, or will you leave the baby with him for visitation even though he's violent? And if he finds out you're pregnant and says he won't relinquish the baby for adoption and then you have an aboriton, how will he respond? You have to consider the social consequences, because many of the churches that are opposed to abortion will also pretty much shun girls and women who place babies for adoption. (I've seen that happen.) Yes, anti-abortion women from anti-abortion churches have abortions because they know they'll lose their friends if their friends find out they're pregnant, and then beyond that there's an negative reaction to adoption. "How could you just give up your baby?"

And of course pregnancy and birth do not come without risk or physical difficulties. Especially for very young and very old mothers.

It is a choice but it isn't an alternative to pregnancy. It's an alternative after you've gone through the pregnancy and birth, which involve tons of consequences and things to consider.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #56)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:02 PM

67. That is a good distinction.

But it really doesn't contradict what I've been saying.

There are in fact two decisions going on.

The first is whether to terminate or not.

The second is whether to keep the baby after birth.

A woman may not ultimately decide to place the baby or to keep the baby until later on in the pregnancy or until after the birth. Still, the fact that it is an option - a choice - informs the first decision as to whether to terminate or not. As such, it is indeed an alternative.

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Response to rug (Reply #67)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:04 PM

68. But if there's no more pregnancy, then there's nothing else to consider

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Response to REP (Reply #68)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:06 PM

70. The fact that adoption exists can affect that decision.

I suspect women consider that before selecting their ultimate choice.

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Response to rug (Reply #70)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:07 PM

71. That's pretty weak sauce, dude.

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Response to REP (Reply #71)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:11 PM

73. That's pretty lame rebuttal, bub.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #56)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:11 PM

99. I think many churches have a negative reaction to NOT giving up your baby for adoption

Are you familiar with our last president, Mr. Bush? He was one of those people who believed that all children born out of wedlock should be placed for adoption. That is the dominant position on the far right. (Including at crisis pregnancy centers).

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Response to StevieM (Reply #99)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:08 AM

147. What churches claim they believe

and how they act when people actually are in that position are not necessarily the same.

These were anti-abortion churches that preached that people should choose adoption over abortion who were horrible to young women who actually did that.

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Response to REP (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:01 AM

116. AMEN!!! Pregnancy resource centers prey on the vulnerable. Women often go to them for help,

and ask them to teach them how to be a good mother. Then the manipulation starts. They set out to break the woman down, and make her feel like she has no right to her own baby. Telling them you are not interested in adoption doesn't help--they continue to apply the pressure with each visit, while acting like they want to help you. They don't want to help you--they want you to give up your baby.

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Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:11 PM

27. It really did a number on my mother

There are no pictures of her as a child or teenager because when she returned from the maternity home where she was forced to relinquish me she burned every picture of herself that she could find. No woman should ever feel this way. Thankfully about a year after giving birth to me she met and married a wonderful man that knew about me and accepted and loved her. If not for him I'm not sure that she would have gotten through the last fifty years.

My heart goes out to women of relinquishment. I am over the moon that I am reunited with my mom and we have time to spend with each other, so many others don't get that much.

Just this past year mothers and children of relinquishment received an official apology from the government of Australia. My mother and I deserve an apology from the United States government. So do you.

Thank you for writing an informative & needed post. My mind spins and swirls when I attempt to talk about the effects of relinquishment on the mothers and children. Your thoughtfulness is appreciated.

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Response to me b zola (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:22 PM

30. My mother-in-law was forcefully relinquished at 6 months of age

She spent the next 75 years trying to find her family (and they tried to find her). She finally found them, but two years after her mother had died. Her mother wanted her to know that she had not been given up willingly.

My mother was never forced to relinquish, and is the one who first explained to me (as a child) why adoption as an alternative to abortion is just horseshit.

Good to see you! Thank you for insights!

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Response to REP (Reply #30)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:30 PM

37. Adoption IS an option

I swear...some on this thread are demonizing it like the right demonizes abortion.

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Response to B2G (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:32 PM

39. Adoption is an option to parenting, not pregnancy

There are two options to pregnancy: remain pregnant or don't.

There are two options once birth has happened: raise the child or relinquish to someone else.

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Response to REP (Reply #39)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:42 PM

45. Well thanks for stating the obvious nt

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Response to B2G (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:47 PM

50. Sadly, it doesn't seem so obvious to some.

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Response to REP (Reply #50)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:49 PM

52. What exactly are you trying to accomplidh here?

I'm genuinely curious because you're doing your level best to paint adoption in the worst possible light.

Why?

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Response to B2G (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:51 PM

53. What makes you think that?

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Response to REP (Reply #53)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:53 PM

54. Don't be fucking coy

The thread title, you references to Georgia Tann...and every damn post you've made on this thread.

Actually, as an adoptee, this entire thread offends the shit out of me.

Later.

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Response to B2G (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:59 PM

64. I cited scientific studies that found that adoption harms women

Science and history offends the fuck out of you - I simply have the bad taste to know both.

See ya.

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Response to B2G (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:32 PM

104. The pain and suffering of birth parents offends me (eom)

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Response to B2G (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:52 PM

84. When soldiers talk about the ill effects of war (PTSD), are they demonizing military service?

There are life-long consequences of relinquishing a child, both to the mother and the child. This needs to be repeated and explained often because of the warm, fuzzy image that is painted of adoption does not represent reality.

When you remove an infant from her mother you are removing a part of that child.



Women and their children of relinquishment have a higher incident of depression and suicide. Do you honestly believe that this little known fact should not be discussed?

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Response to me b zola (Reply #84)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:23 PM

89. What personal experience do you have?

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Response to B2G (Reply #89)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:30 PM

95. In 1963 my mother was forced to relinquish me

I found her last January and we spend at least an hour every week on the phone with each other.

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Response to REP (Reply #30)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:21 PM

102. You brought tears to my eyes with this story. And another issue to address--sealed birth records.

It is ridiculous that adoptees do not have access to their original birth certificates.

Liars like Chris Christie claim that they do it to protect birth parent privacy. BULL!! Birth parents never asked for privacy, especially not during the Baby Scoop Era. They were threatened, bullied and drugged--but never given promises of privacy.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #102)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:16 PM

108. Most modern adoptions are open, or some variation on open.

people on this thread are fighting a battle that has been long over.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #108)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:38 PM

110. First of all, many women who were forced to relinquish before open adoptions

still have no idea what happened to their children. And they desperately want to see them again before they die.

Second, many open adoptions wind up closing--real fast. And not by mutual agreement.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #110)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:49 PM

115. See the link I gave to the article in The Nation in this thread about that

Coercion and lying to desperate young women still goes on to get them to give up their babies.

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Response to REP (Reply #115)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:07 AM

119. Yep, it does. And the media rarely acknowledges it. Somehow it has escaped the coverage during

National Adoption Month.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #108)

Sun Nov 17, 2013, 01:28 PM

153. If you believe that, then you should meet the modern women of relinquishment that I speak to online

There is no legal safeguards for women who relinquish in an open adoption. Almost as soon as the ink is dried, the adopters begin to close the adoption and sever ties with the first mother. The first mothers are reduced to having to jump through hoops just to get any information at all about their child.

Open adoptions my ass. I have spent time with these women as they grieve and go through the humiliation of "proving" themselves "worthy" of having any info at all about their children.

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Response to me b zola (Reply #153)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 10:24 PM

154. and just where do you get your information?

I frankly think you don't know what you are talking about.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #154)

Mon Nov 18, 2013, 11:54 PM

155. There are NO legal protections for a women who relinquishes her child to "open" adoption

She is at the mercy of the adopters.

There are search engines out there that can assist you with becoming familiar with a topic. You can find very large communities of women who have been lied to so that they would relinquish their child. Rather than attack me it would be better for you to understand the topic.

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Response to me b zola (Reply #155)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 12:44 AM

156. It would be better for you to provide some links rather than some absurd assertions.

Until then, another wacky conspiracy theory at home on DU.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #156)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 01:05 AM

157. Yeah, okay. I got your number now

I used to link to women of relinquishment and of adult adoptees. But the amount of hate that came from supporters of adoption once I posted a link to these people was unthinkable. But here is a link from a discussion on huffpo on the subject.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11382104


How disgusting that people who say that they support adoption would be so dismissive of natural mothers and the children that they bore. Kind of like how big buisness makes billions off of labor but treats their workers like crap.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #102)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:46 PM

113. And their children were often told lies about their mothers

My MIL was wanted. She was told she wasn't. That takes its toll.

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Response to me b zola (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:40 PM

43. Thank you for sharing your story.

It's such a deeply personal decision and I am so sorry that your mother was not allowed to make it.

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Response to me b zola (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:15 PM

100. Your mother, and other first mothers, have a special place in my heart.

I know you met her for the first time recently. I hope the visit went well for both of you.

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Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:31 PM

38. I am an adoptee who has found her birth mother

It did effect her for a long time, but she was 16 and her mother forced her to give me up. But now she knows I have had a good life and loving parents and that eased the worry she had had. She also knows that I don't blame her or think badly of her and that I've always had only love and gratitude towards her even before we found each other.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:43 PM

46. Ditto!

Thank you.

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Response to B2G (Reply #46)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:48 PM

51. Some of the posts in the abortion threads and in this thread really bother me

As an adoptee I feel like this OP and some posts in the other thread are saying that my birthmother should have aborted me. Maybe they don't mean to come across like that, but frankly it does. All of a sudden adoption is a bad thing.

Unplanned pregnancies are a stressful thing. Choice means choice, whether that be abortion, adoption or keeping the child.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #51)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:54 PM

55. I agree with you.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #51)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:56 PM

58. Agreed.

These threads have gone well beyond choice and into some nebulous realm where defending one choice means demonizing others, including now adoption. It's nuts.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #51)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:56 PM

59. I'm right there with you and I'm backing out

before I say something to get myself banned.

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Response to B2G (Reply #59)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:36 PM

105. Oh you needn't worry about being banned.

You can say pretty much whatever you want about women here and get away with it.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #51)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:57 PM

60. Adoption is a parenting choice, and it should be made freely

Better support, counseling and other services should be made available to the relinquishing mother. Adoption should not be treated as though it has no lasting effect on the relinquishing mother. It is often offered too glibly as a "solution" to an unplanned pregnancy when it is not; it is a parenting choice and not an easy one, and one where little, if any, consideration is given to the mother once the child is relinquished.

I actually give a crap about women.

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Response to REP (Reply #60)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:57 PM

61. Too late to save your shitty thread now.

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Response to B2G (Reply #61)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:00 PM

65. From you? I agree.

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Response to B2G (Reply #61)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:26 PM

90. I don't understand why you are attacking this thread topic and the poster

If you had a daughter that was considering relinquishing a child, wouldn't you like her to be informed before making that choice?

I get that this topic makes you uncomfortable, but you seem to want to quash discussion on the matter~you don't get to do that.

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Response to REP (Reply #60)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:59 PM

63. And it shouldn't have negative social consequences

I've seen young women be raked over the coals for choosing adoption, ironically by the very same people who said they shouldn't have an abortion.

It's a choice that should be available, and should be made freely without pressure, and people should be kind to women who make that choice and not treat them like pariahs.

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Response to gollygee (Reply #63)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:29 PM

94. I think it is far more common for a woman to be raked over the coals for NOT choosing adoption,

ironically by the very same people who said they shouldn't have an abortion.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #94)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 08:09 AM

148. That's not what I've seen

when young women have actually chosen adoption. They get shamed for getting pregnant, horribly shamed, and then they get shamed for not keeping the baby.

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Response to REP (Reply #60)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:14 PM

75. unbelievable

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Response to REP (Reply #60)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:48 AM

127. I am familiar with at least one agency that works with these mothers

and in no way does it convey the sense that adoption is a trivial issue with no lasting effect on the relinquishing mother. In fact, its primary focus is helping young women who want to keep their babies, but it also will help them find adoptive parents if that's what they choose.

Few women can go through either a pregnancy-to-term or a terminated pregnancy without being affected by it. Either experience will leave an imprint on a woman's psyche.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #127)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:59 AM

140. Abortion has been found to not have a negative emotional sequelae

Abortion, as it turns out, doesn't effect a woman's well-being - except when it is denied.

Abortion doesn't affect well-being, study says

New York Times (as printed in the San Jose Mercury 2/12/97)

Abortion does not trigger lasting emotional trauma in young women who
are psychologically healthy before they become pregnant, an eight-year
study of nearly 5,300 women has shown.
Women who are in poor shape
emotionally after an abortion are likely to have been feeling bad about
their lives before terminating their pregnancies, the researchers said.

The findings, the researchers say, challenge the validity of laws
that have been proposed in many states, and passed in several, mandating
that women seeking abortions be informed of mental health risks.

The researchers, Dr. Nancy Felipe Russo, a psychologist at Arizona
State University in Tempe, and Dr. Amy Dabul Marin, a psychologist at
Phoenix College, examined the effects of race and religion on the
well-being of 773 women who reported on sealed questionnaires that
they had undergone abortions, and they compared the results with the
emotional status of women who did not report abortions.

The women, initially 14 to 24 years old, completed questionnaires and
were interviewed each year for eight years, starting in 1979. In 1980
and in 1987, the interview also included a standardized test that
measures overall well-being, the Rosenberg Self-Esteem Scale.

"Given the persistent assertion that abortion is associated with
negative outcomes, the lack of any results in the context of such a
large sample is noteworthy," the researchers wrote. The study took
into account many factors that can influence a woman's emotional
well-being, including education, employment, income, the presence of
a spouse and the number of children.

Higher self-esteem was associated with being employed, having a
higher income, having more years of education and bearing fewer children,
but having had an abortion "did not make a difference," the researchers
reported. And the women's religious affiliations and degree of involvement
with religion did not have an independent effect on their long-term
reaction to abortion. Rather, the women's psychological well-being before
having abortions accounted for their mental state in the years after the
abortion, the researchers said..

In considering the influence of race, the researchers again found
that the women's level of self-esteem before having abortions was the
strongest predictor of their well-being after an abortion.

"Although highly religious Catholic women were slightly more likely
to exhibit post-abortion psychological distress than other women, this
fact is explained by lower pre-existing self-esteem," the researchers
wrote in the current issue of Professional Psychology: Research and
Practice, a journal of the American Psychological Association.

Overall, Catholic women who attended church one or more times a week,
even those who had not had abortions, had generally lower self-esteem
than other women, although within the normal range, so it was hardly
surprising that they also had lower self-esteem after abortions, the
researchers said in interviews.

Gail Quinn, executive director of anti-abortion activities for the
United States Catholic Conference, said the findings belied the
experience of post-abortion counselors. She said, "While many women
express `relief' following an abortion, the relief is transitory."
In the long term, the experience prompts "hurting people to seek the
help of post-abortion healing services," she said.

The president of the National Right to Life Committee, Dr. Wanda
Franz, who earned her doctorate in developmental psychology, challenged
the researchers' conclusions. She said their assessment of self-esteem
"does not measure if a woman is mentally healthy," adding, "This requires
a specialist who performs certain tests, not a self-assessment of how
the woman feels about herself."

The Relationship of Abortion to Well-being: Do Race and Religion Make a Difference?
Nancy Felipe Russo and Amy J. Dabul
Professional Psychology, Research and Practice, 1997, Vol. 28, No , 23-31

Relationships of abortion and childbearing to well-being were examined for 1,189 Black and 3,147 White women. Education, income, and having a work role were positively and independently related to well-being for all women. Abortion did not have an independent relationship to well-being, regardless of race or religion, when well-being before becoming pregnant was controlled. These findings suggest professional psychologists should explore the origins of women's mental health problems in experiences predating their experience of abortion, and they can assist psychologists in working to ensure that mandated scripts from 'informed consent' legislation do not misrepresent scientific findings.


RUSSO, NANCY FELIPE
ZIERK, K.
Abortion, Childbearing, and Women's Well-Being
Professional Psychology, Research and Practice 23 (1992): 269-280. Also, http://www.prochoiceforum.org.uk/psy_resea...
Cohort(s): NLSY79
ID Number: 4029
Publisher: American Psychological Association (APA)

This study is based on a secondary analysis of NLSY interview data from 5,295 women who were interviewed annually from 1979 to 1987. Among this group 773 women were identified in 1987 as having at least one abortion, with 233 of them reporting repeat abortions. Well-being was assessed in 1980 and 1987 by the Rosenberg Self-Esteem Scale. The researchers used analysis of variance (ANOVA) and multiple regression to examine the combined and separate contributions of preabortion self-esteem, contextual variables (education, employment, income, and marital status), childbearing (being a parent, numbers of wanted and unwanted children) and abortion (having one abortion, having repeat abortions, number of abortions, time since last abortion) to women's post abortion self-esteem.




Most Women Do Not Feel Distress, Regret After Undergoing Abortion, Study Says



The majority of women who choose to have legal abortions do not experience regret or long-term negative emotional effects from their decision to undergo the procedure, according to a study published in the June issue of the journal Social Science & Medicine, NewsRx.com/Mental Health Weekly Digest reports. Dr. A. Kero and colleagues in the Department of Clinical Sciences, Obstetrics and Gynecology at University Hospital in Umea, Sweden, interviewed 58 women at periods of four months and 12 months after the women's abortions. The women also answered a questionnaire prior to their abortions that asked about their living conditions, decision-making processes and general attitudes toward the pregnancy and the abortion. According to the study, most women "did not experience any emotional distress post-abortion"; however, 12 of the women said they experienced severe distress immediately after the procedure. Almost all of the women said they felt little distress at the one-year follow-up interview. The women who said they experienced no post-abortion distress had indicated prior to the procedure that they opted not to give birth because they "prioritized work, studies, and/or existing children," according to the study. According to the researchers, "almost all" of the women said the abortion was a "relief or a form of taking responsibility," and more than half of the women said they experienced positive emotional experiences after the abortion such as "mental growth and maturity of the abortion process" (NewsRx.com/Mental Health Weekly Digest, 7/12).

http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_reports...

The psychological sequelae of therapeutic abortion--denied and completed

PK Dagg
Department of Psychiatry, Mount Sinai Hospital, Toronto, Ont., Canada.

OBJECTIVE: The purpose of this article is to review the available literature on the psychological sequelae of therapeutic abortion, addressing both the issue of the effects of the abortion on the woman involved and the effects on the woman and on the child born when abortion is denied. METHOD: Papers reviewed were initially selected by using a Medline search. This procedure resulted in 225 papers being reviewed, which were further selected by limiting the papers to those reporting original research. Finally, studies were assessed as to whether or not they used control groups or objective, validated symptom measures. RESULTS: Adverse sequelae occur in a minority of women, and when such symptoms occur, they usually seem to be the continuation of symptoms that appeared before the abortion and are on the wane immediately after the abortion. Many women denied abortion show ongoing resentment that may last for years, while children born when the abortion is denied have numerous, broadly based difficulties in social, interpersonal, and occupational functions that last at least into early adulthood. CONCLUSIONS: With increasing pressure on access to abortion services in North America, nonpsychiatrist physicians and mental health professionals need to keep in mind the effects of both performing and denying therapeutic abortion. Increased research into these areas, focusing in particular on why some women are adversely affected by the procedure and clarifying the relationship issues involved, continues to be important.
Am J Psychiatry 1991; 148:578-585
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/conten...


Psychological sequelae of medical and surgical abortion at 10-13 weeks gestation.

Ashok PW, Hamoda H, Flett GM, Kidd A, Fitzmaurice A, Templeton A.

From the Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, University of Aberdeen, Aberdeen Royal Infirmary, Aberdeen, UK.

Background. Although not much research comparing the emotional distress following medical and surgical abortion is available, few studies have compared psychological sequelae following both methods of abortion early in the first trimester of pregnancy. The aim of this review was to assess the psychological sequelae and emotional distress following medical and surgical abortion at 10-13 weeks gestation. Methods. Partially randomized patient preference trial in a Scottish Teaching Hospital was conducted. The hospital anxiety and depression scales were used to assess emotional distress. Anxiety levels were also assessed using visual analog scales while semantic differential rating scales were used to measure self-esteem. A total of 368 women were randomized, while 77 entered the preference cohort. Results. There were no significant differences in hospital anxiety and depression scales scores for anxiety or depression between the groups. Visual analog scales showed higher anxiety levels in women randomized to surgery prior to abortion (P < 0.0001), while women randomized to surgical treatment were less anxious after abortion (P < 0.0001). Semantic differential rating scores showed a fall in self-esteem in the randomized medical group compared to those undergoing surgery (P = 0.02). Conclusions. Medical abortion at 10-13 weeks is effective and does not increase psychological morbidity compared to surgical vacuum aspiration and hence should be made available to all women undergoing abortion at these gestations.
Acta Obstet Gynecol Scand. 2005 Aug;84(8) 61-6.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...


Post abortion syndrome: myth or reality?

Koop CE.

What are the health effects upon a woman who has had an abortion? In his letter to President Reagan, dated January 9, 1989, Surgeon General C. Everett Koop wrote that in order to find an answer to this question the Public Health Service would need from 10 to 100 million dollars for a comprehensive study.

PIP: At a 1987 briefing for Right to Life leaders, the author--US Surgeon General C Everett Koop--was requested to prepare a comprehensive report on the health effects (mental and physical) of induced abortion. To prepare for this task, the author met with 27 groups with philosophical, social, medical, or other professional interests in the abortion issue; interviewed women who had undergone this procedure; and conducted a review of the more than 250 studies in the literature pertaining to the psychological impact of abortion. Every effort was made to eliminate the bias that surrounds this controversial issue. It was not possible, however, to reach any conclusions about the health effects of abortion. In general, the studies on the psychological sequelae of abortion indicate a low incidence of adverse mental health effects. On the other hand, the evidence tends to consist of case studies and the few nonanecdotal reports that exist contain serious methodological flaws. In terms of the physical effects, abortion has been associated with subsequent infertility, a damaged cervix, miscarriage, premature birth, and low birthweight. Again, there are methodological problems. 1st, these events are difficult to quantify since most abortions are performed in free-standing clinics where longterm outcome is not recorded. 2nd, it is impossible to casually link these adverse outcomes to the abortion per se. Resolution of this question requires a prospective study of a cohort of women of childbearing age in reference to the variable outcomes of mating--failure to conceive, miscarriage, abortion, and delivery. Ideally, such a study would be conducted over a 5-year period and would cost approximately US$100 million
Health Matrix. 1989 Summer;7(2):42-4.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...

Psychological sequelae of induced abortion.

Romans-Clarkson SE.

Department of Psychological Medicine, University of Otago Medical School, Dunedin, New Zealand.

This article reviews the scientific literature on the psychological sequelae of induced abortion. The methodology and results of studies carried out over the last twenty-two years are examined critically. The unanimous consensus is that abortion does not cause deleterious psychological effects. Women most likely to show subsequent problems are those who were pressured into the operation against their own wishes, either by relatives or because their pregnancy had medical or foetal contraindications. Legislation which restricts abortion causes problems for women with unwanted pregnancies and their doctors. It is also unjust, as it adversely most affects lower socio-economic class women.

PIP: A review of empirical studies on the psychological sequelae of induced abortion published since 1965 revealed no evidence of adverse effects. On the other hand, this review identified widespread methodological problems--improper sampling, lack of data on women's previous psychiatric history, a scarcity of prospective study designs, a lack of specified follow-up times or evaluation procedures, and a failure to distinguish between legal, illegal, and spontaneous abortions--that need to be addressed by psychiatric epidemiologists. Despite these methodological weaknesses, all 34 studies found significant improvement rather than deterioration in mental status after induced abortion. There was also a high degree of congruity in terms of predictors of adverse reactions after abortion--ambivalence about the procedure, a history of psychosocial instability, poor or absent family ties, psychiatric illness at the time of the pregnancy termination, and negative attitudes toward abortion in the broader society. As expected, criminal abortion is more likely than legal abortion to be associated with guilt, and women who have been denied therapeutic abortions report significantly greater psychosocial difficulties than those who have been granted abortion on the grounds of their precarious mental health. Overall, the research clearly attests that abortion carried out at a woman's request has no deleterious psychiatric consequences. Problems arise only when the woman undergoes pregnancy termination as a result of pressure from others. Legislation that undermines the ability of the pregnant woman to assess herself the impact of an unwanted pregnancy on her future impedes mental health and should be opposed by the psychiatric profession.
Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 1989 Dec;23(4):555-65
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...

Psychological and social aspects of induced abortion.

Handy JA.

The literature concerning psychosocial aspects of induced abortion is reviewed. Key areas discussed are: the legal context of abortion in Britain, psychological characteristics of abortion-seekers, pre- and post-abortion contraceptive use, pre- and post-abortion counselling, the actual abortion and the effects of termination versus refused abortion. Women seeking termination are found to demonstrate more psychological disturbance than other women, however this is probably temporary and related to the short-term stresses of abortion. Inadequate contraception is frequent prior to abortion but improves afterwards. Few women find the decision to terminate easy and most welcome opportunities for non-judgemental counselling. Although some women experience adverse psychological sequelae after abortion the great majority do not. In contrast, refused abortion often results in psychological distress for the mother and an impoverished environment for the ensuing offspring.
Br J Clin Psychol. 1982 Feb;21 (Pt 1):29-41.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...

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Response to REP (Reply #140)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:15 AM

141. True, in emotionally stable women, and with the exceptions noted.

For example: "Women most likely to show subsequent problems are those who were pressured into the operation against their own wishes, either by relatives or because their pregnancy had medical or foetal contraindications."

No one should be pressured to either have an abortion or not have one. The decision should be completely up to the woman and the procedure should be available and affordable to all.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #141)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 07:35 AM

146. There are over 4000 christian pregnancy crisis centers in the US.

Hell, that's more than the approx 1800 abortion clinics in the US.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #146)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:33 PM

152. It all depends on whether the particular center is open about what it does.

I know of one that is completely open about what it does -- help young women who need help to keep their babies. But a small number of women each year end up deciding at some point to release their babies for an adoption instead.

No one goes to this place expecting to get advice on abortion.

It costs a lot more money and time to help a homeless 16 year old through a pregnancy -- and the years afterwards (this place offers counseling, parenting classes, and has a clothing bank, diaper bank, etc.) than it does to provide abortions. So if there are more of these than abortion clinics, that makes sense to me.

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Response to REP (Reply #140)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 01:48 AM

160. None of those links work.

I would really like to have the information you posted and working links.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #51)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:27 PM

92. One option=no choice (eom)

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #51)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:43 AM

125. That is how it's coming across to me, too, and it's weird.

There should be no "should" involved in any woman's pregnancy/birth decision, whether to abort, carry to term, release for adoption, or keep.

Only the mother (and father, after the birth) can make that choice.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #51)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:11 AM

131. Don't listen to those who are trying to score nasty political points.

I was blessed with 3 daughters through adoption.

Marrah...you KNOW that you matter. Don't let the sickos get you down.


There are some pretty sick tickets here...and they just want to make others feel bad.


DU is a very very toxic place. It's a place where Skinner makes more money if people tear each other apart.

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Response to Beausoir (Reply #131)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 01:46 AM

159. Wow -

if DU is so toxic maybe you shouldn't be here especially if you are going to attack Skinner and other DUers.

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Response to ohheckyeah (Reply #159)

Wed Nov 20, 2013, 12:16 AM

163. Get the smelling salts....

I see you were forced to read my opinion and doing so has given you the vapors.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:27 PM

103. I am sure your adoptive parents are great, but you could also have had a good life with

your first mother. She should have had a choice. No one should be forced to be a birth mother.

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Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:58 PM

62. Adoption CAN harm women or can liberate women. It all depends on the situation and how

it is done, as well as what support she has.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #62)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:16 PM

76. And the exact same thing can be said about abortion.

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Response to B2G (Reply #76)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:18 PM

77. Indeed. Anyone who says "always" or "all" or somehow implies that each and every woman feels

reacts, does any of this in the exact same way is sadly mistaken. Yes, I am sure there are some who feel the same, but it is very individualized.

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Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:23 PM

78. No shit, Sherlock, it's not like giving a PUPPY away

This is why people who say they want to ban abortion to increase the pool of adoptive infants are both cruel and unrealistic.

Antiabortion men consistently ignore the very real threats to health, employment, family support, finances and LIFE an unwanted pregnancy presents. They consistently lie about how easy it is to give up one's offspring to an unknown stranger.

Is there any more useless creature on the face of the earth than an antiabortion MAN?

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Response to Warpy (Reply #78)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:33 PM

79. Antiabortion women.

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Response to REP (Reply #79)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:37 PM

81. touche

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Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:16 PM

87. Making adoption mandatory - as it essentially was at one time - sure as hell harms women.

I know I'm preaching to the choir but anti-choicers are just going to have to accept keeping first-trimester abortions, at the very least, fully legal. Otherwise, not only do they deserve the "forced-birther" label, as far as I'm concerned they deserve to be retroactively "aborted."

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #87)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:22 PM

88. There are some on the right who think poor people don't deserve to keep their children

I know we agree: richer doesn't mean better (or worse) parents. We should help the poorer ones - and their children.

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Response to REP (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:26 PM

91. So many terrible parents with plenty of money, so many great parents with little to none.

Socioeconomic status is far from the only important factor in a person's upbringing.

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Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:46 PM

107. I had a friend in college who got pregnant

and gave the baby up for adoption. She stays sort of in touch with the kid who graduates from high school this year. Giving up that baby, I promise you, has caused he grief to this day.

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Response to REP (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:31 PM

109. Your studies are ancient, and mostly Australian.

and you have proven no causative link between your reported "harm" of women, and the percentage of women who choose to put their child up for adoption. Weak tea, indeed, for such a polemic.

I think you need a new grindstone for your axe.

Speaking as an adoptive parent, the conditions for modern domestic adoption are often completely open. We met the birth mother. She can contact us any time.

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Response to kwassa (Reply #109)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:44 PM

112. Levels of Openess

The percentage of adoptions in which contact is maintained varies over time. The California Long-Range Adoption Study looked at contact patterns over four waves (2, 4, 8, and 14 years after adoption). In one longitudinal study, the percentages of adoptive families in contact with the birth families were as follows: 59 percent after 2 years, 46 percent after 4 years, 60 percent after 8 years, and 39 percent after 14 years (Crea & Barth, 2009). For those who maintained openness, the mean number of contacts (mail, phone, and in person) between the adopted person and the birth parents increased each year, from 7.4 contacts per year 4 years after the adoption to 25.6 contacts per year 14 years after the adoption.

The parties involved in the contacts may vary in open adoptions. In one study, 21 percent of adoptive parents and 22 percent of persons adopted from foster care had contact with the birth family (Faulkner & Madden, 2012). When looking at private adoption, 50 percent of adoptive parents were in contact with the birth families, yet only 37 percent of adopted persons were in contact with their birth family.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/f_openadoptbulletin.pdf

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Response to kwassa (Reply #109)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:05 AM

130. It's like DU is stuck back in the 1980's. The inmates are in charge of the asylum.

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Response to REP (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:05 AM

118. Really? Even the women who were adopted out of starvation, abuse and cruelty?

Words can't describe how stupid your post is.


As a mom who has adopted several special needs kids, I can say with all certainty that your post makes me swell with pride at how awesome my family is and how amazing my girls are.



I've heard from many anti adoption nutters in my life and you are pretty mild and meek. If you want to get really rabid...you should update your facts so they are not 30 years old and from Australia.

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Response to Beausoir (Reply #118)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:25 AM

133. There is higher incidents of some debilitating illnesses & cancers among 911 first responders...

...than there is in the general population. Did I just state or even infer that all 911 first responders are dying of a disease related to 911? Of course not, but if you wanted to shut down a conversation for whatever your motivation you could intentionally misread that statement.

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Response to Beausoir (Reply #118)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:28 AM

135. "you should update your facts so they are not 30 years old and from Australia"

I believe that is what we in the biz call a verbal smack down.

Congrats to you for your happy family.

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Response to Kurska (Reply #135)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:39 AM

136. 1999 and Arizona is the first one ... so, no.

Not even close.

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Response to REP (Reply #136)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:42 AM

138. I'm really curious about something. Of all the things in the word to attack, adoption?

Really?

Like really?

...I mean really.

As a gay person, I understand what it likes to to have someone degrade and attack your family. I really thought better of DU.

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Response to Kurska (Reply #138)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:47 AM

139. I suspect it was a comeback to the 'abortion harms women' line...

IMO, it could have been worded a bit better, as there's some threads in here today that do come across like they're attacking adoption as a choice. I saw things saying adoption's not an alternative, and thanks to DU I now realise that one of the three options I considered when I found myself with an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy wasn't actually an alternative. There ya go. I learn something new every day!

I don't really see any difference between these threads going on about how bad adoption is and ones going on about how bad abortion is. It's just a shame people can't keep their noses out of other women's reproductive choices.

I hope DU goes back to normal tomorrow, coz all these threads are starting to get irksome in the polarisation they're trying to cause...

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Response to REP (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 12:34 AM

124. I was 19 and pregnant in 1966.

I spent three months at the Methodist Home for unwed mothers in San Antonio (the cover story being that I was spending the summer with my grandparents in Florida). My parents were supportive. I was not in any way in love with the father and marriage was out of the question for me. I gave the baby up for adoption because I felt then, and still do, that it was best for all concerned. Abortions were illegal then and not something that I particularly wanted to go through having sat with a friend who went through a rather gruesome experience aborting twins. I have had no regrets about my decision and consider that I'm very well adjusted, not wracked with guilt or any other psychological issues. I do wonder sometimes how he's doing, but I am not sorry I did what I did.

Had abortions been safe and legal then, I might have considered it, but I can't be sure. Bottom line is it's a woman's choice, and no one should be made to feel guilty or "damaged" no matter what her decision.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #124)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:04 AM

129. I am glad that you are OK with everything.

Not all women are so lucky. And back in 1966 keeping the baby wasn't an option for most--there is a reason it was called "the Baby Scoop Era." (Actually, the First Mothers Forum, one of the most well known birth mother sites on the internet, is populated by a lot of women who relinquished in 1966, including the sites proprietors).

I hope you had a good experience at the home you mentioned. But a lot of those places were ruthless and brutal, and gave the woman absolutely no choice but to give up their children.

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Response to StevieM (Reply #129)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:19 AM

132. Keeping a baby at that point in my life

was the last thing in the world I wanted to do. I seem to recall at least one of the other women making the choice to keep her baby, and as far as I know, she was allowed to do so. Nothing is final until the papers are signed.

As for a good experience, you haven't lived until you've spent three months living with 60 pregnant teenagers and 20-somethings. We had chores and responsibilities, but the place was hardly ruthless and brutal. I think they felt like they were performing a useful service at the time, and they tried to be kind, good Methodists that they were. I spent my time taking correspondence courses so that I didn't get behind on my college track.

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Response to Blue_In_AK (Reply #132)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:40 AM

137. I am glad that you were treated well. Many of those homes were quite different and the women

who resided in them were not given much of a choice but to relinquish.

Did you ever try to locate your son on an on-line reunion site?

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Response to StevieM (Reply #137)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 02:29 AM

142. No, I haven't.

I've thought about it, but I think it might be kind of disruptive to everyone, not the least of which my husband and daughters.

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Response to REP (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 01:25 AM

134. Welp, that settles it. Ban adoption.



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Response to REP (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 11:02 AM

149. DU rec...nt

Sid

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Response to REP (Original post)

Thu Nov 14, 2013, 11:10 AM

150. Adoption is a legitimate choice and it is really nobody's business whether a woman chooses it.

I am 100% pro-choice on both abortion and adoption.

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Response to REP (Original post)

Tue Nov 19, 2013, 02:09 AM

161. Yuck, I see this turd floated back up.

*trash*

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