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Tue Nov 12, 2013, 10:54 PM

how to make abortion rare

Comprehensive age appropriate sex ed, free contraceptives.

Separating sex from shame but teaching resposnsibility and self respect.

25 replies, 1463 views

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Arrow 25 replies Author Time Post
Reply how to make abortion rare (Original post)
arely staircase Nov 2013 OP
LumosMaxima Nov 2013 #1
idwiyo Nov 2013 #2
marshall Nov 2013 #6
idwiyo Nov 2013 #8
marshall Nov 2013 #9
idwiyo Nov 2013 #10
BainsBane Nov 2013 #12
idwiyo Nov 2013 #13
Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #15
idwiyo Nov 2013 #17
Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #19
idwiyo Nov 2013 #21
Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #23
PeaceNikki Nov 2013 #3
arely staircase Nov 2013 #4
CTyankee Nov 2013 #5
marshall Nov 2013 #7
arely staircase Nov 2013 #11
idwiyo Nov 2013 #16
arely staircase Nov 2013 #20
idwiyo Nov 2013 #22
arely staircase Nov 2013 #24
Boom Sound 416 Nov 2013 #14
jeff47 Nov 2013 #18
arely staircase Nov 2013 #25

Response to arely staircase (Original post)


Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 11:24 PM

2. I have better solution: mandatory vasectomies. Problem solved.

Women can easily use IVF if they want to have a child.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:05 AM

6. Where would they get semen?

Eventually the banks would run out of any stockpile, and with no means to restock we'd be in a pickle.

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Response to marshall (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:19 AM

8. It can be easily removed with a needle, see below. small price to pay.

Surgical Sperm Retrieval (SSR)

http://www.uhcw.nhs.uk/ivf/treatments/ssr

Techniques

PESA (Percutaneous epididymal sperm aspiration)
is the collection of sperm through a fine needle directly from the epididymis, where sperm is stored, after it is formed in the testes.

TESE (Testicular sperm extraction) is the collection of sperm from a biopsy or several biopsies from the testicular tissue after making a small incision in the scrotal skin.

The above procedures are carried out either under light general anaesthetic combined with the use of a local anesthetic. It requires only a few hours of hospital stay. The material collected will be examined and you will be advised on the same day about the quality of the material and whether there is any sperm present. Any material with sperm will be frozen and place in storage for use at a later stage. These specimens are then thawed and used to inject the eggs obtained during IVF treatment using the technique of ICSI. If surgical retrieval of sperm is successful, usually enough sperm is obtained for several cycles of treatment (if required).

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:50 AM

9. Current cost for those procedures is $12,000

Of course it will ultimately depend on who funds the procedure. And since the recovery time is longer than current procedures related to the issue (abortion) there would need to be an added donor sick leave, similar to maternity leave, added to our insurance plan.

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Response to marshall (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 09:09 AM

10. Few hours in the hospital is not long. Needle into testicles doesn't sound that bad

to require any time off to recover but if doctors say you need time off (I doubt it), than of course I fully support it.

Vasectomy is a little bit more painful and I fully support same recovery time for it as women get after abortion.

Edited to add: Both vasectomies and surgical sperm removal should be covered by NHS, time off after the procedures should be fully covered by sick leave, for as long as doctor will sign one off.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:21 AM

12. This will not end well.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:50 AM

13. I am sure men who have moral problem with abortion will agree this is the best option.

One, ALMOST painless and VERY safe procedure will virtually eliminate all abortions but those to save woman's life or when something is terribly wrong with foetus...
OK, they will need to have a needle stuck in their testicles to retrieve sperm, but really, that's a very small price to pay.

I am positive those man will support this solution!

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:55 AM

15. That's a very brave new world scenario

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:26 AM

17. World were men take full responsibility for preventing unwanted pregnancies!

100% guarantee men will never be trapped into supporting a child they didn't want!
100% guarantee virtually all abortions would be for medical reasons only!
100% guarantee women will have a child by choice only!



Best world ever!

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 12:05 PM

19. it's not responsibility if you mandate vasectomies

There is never a 100% in anything. Period.

at what age will you require these boys to get it done

what about immigrants

what about those "grandfathered"

would you like to tack an child birth limit while your at it? maybe its like clean air credits. if you want to have three kids, you go and find people who want less than two

ridiculous.

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 01:27 PM

21. Everyone gets vasectomy. no exceptions. At what age to start should be determined by doctors.

One man can impregnate hundreds of women, clearly it's much more effective to sterilize all males. As far as "rights" go, sorry but this is the only sure way all pregnancies are wanted. Lots of man don't have a problem telling women what to do with their bodies, surely they should lead by example and embrace the best solution for making abortions as "rare" as possible.

As when it comes to family planning, it would be up to each woman to decide when, and how many. Her Body, Her Choice.

P.S. Sorry, your attempt at creating a straw-man by bringing eugenics into conversation is too transparent.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 01:49 PM

23. How did I bring in eugenics?

What is the penalty for men who won't vasectomize? Castration? Entry to the Penal System!!

This a ludicrous debate.

I love that "family planning" is left to an individual not a, you know, family.

And again what about immigrants? And those "grandfathered"

And I'd like to see you watch your son's reaction when he gets told by a dr when he's going to get his federally ordered vasectomy.

And I suppose ACA will cover 160 million procedures?

I never got a women pregnant prior to my wife. I know how not to do it. Just because other men can't figure it, you're not clipping me. That's about the worst greater-good-ends-justify-the-means bullshit I've read here.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Tue Nov 12, 2013, 11:26 PM

3. How about we stop focusing on the frequency?

What if we stopped focusing on the number of abortions and instead focused on the women themselves? Much of the work of the reproductive health, rights and justice movements would remain the same. We would still advocate for legislation that helps our families. We would still fight to protect abortion providers and their staffs from verbal harassment and physical violence. What would change, however, is the stigma and shame. By focusing on supporting women’s agency and self-determination, rather than judging the outcomes of that agency, we send a powerful message. We say that we trust women. We say we will not use them and their experiences as pawns in a political game. We say we care about women and want them to have access to all the information, services and resources necessary to make the best decisions they can for themselves and their families. That is at the core of reproductive justice. Not reducing the number of abortions. Safe – yes. Legal– absolutely. Rare – not the point.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:34 AM

4. I think frequency is an indicator of the prevention or lack thereof

of unwanted pregnancies. A high number of abortions is a good sign of a failure to provide access to birth control and often a lack of comprehensive sex education. Places with ignorant fundie driven abstinance only classes for teens are going to have a higher number of abortions. And then when they make the abortions harder to get we will have the nightmare of the pre Roe unsafe clandestine abortions and or more children born to women and girls who aee unable to care for them. Preventing that scenario is people like Ann Richards or myself come from when we say safe, legal and rare. I heard the woman say it a hundred times. That is what she meant. I have had this talk with her personally. May she rest in peace.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 07:51 AM

5. Ann Richards was active politically at a time when Dems felt they HAD to add "rare" becaiuse

they felt the need to answer the RW's accusation that Dems liked and wanted more abortions. Times have changed as yet another generation grows up knowing abortion is legal. I don't think adding the word "rare" is needed and is perhaps unhelpful because it implies that abortion is always bad.

Your own words "Separating sex from shame but teaching resposnsibility and self respect" implies that women who have an unwanted pregnancy are irresponsible and lacking a feeling of self worth. That's a very harsh judgment for you to make on women you do not know!

There are women who do not feel abortion is a bad thing and who don't have feelings of deep remorse or guilt for having one. The most commonly reported emotion that women themselves say they feel after their abortion is "relieved." They are now free to go on with their lives. At the time of an abortion, women are usually counseled about their birth control options going forward. If their previous contraception failed, they find out what went wrong and what to do now. When we say abortion should be rare, we are in effect shaming these women because they are not our ideal. They failed to avoid an abortion. They should hang their heads in shame.

If we truly trust women and their moral agency we need not say more than just "safe and legal."

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 08:12 AM

7. Some of those old Democrats, like Eunice Kennedy, actually believe it

It's hard now to picture that much diversity in thought on the issue, especially among the ranks of the powers that be, but times have changed. As with any social issue, attitudes evolve.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:19 AM

11. ok. I we can agree to disagree on wording

all I am saying is in a world where abortion is safe and legal, the fact it is also rare would indicate there is access to contraception and good sex education and therefore the prevention of unwanted pregnancies. We have no disagreement on policy as best I can tell.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:06 AM

16. What do you consider "rare"? 1 per 1000? 10? 100?

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 12:30 PM

20. I would like to live in a world where all pregancies are planned ones

Now that isn't going to happen no matter how much wducation, access to BC, drop in rapes, etc. So I couldn't quantify the way you are asking. I just know that there are a lot of unwanted pregnancies and I would like them to be as rare as they can be regardless of whether the woman decides to carry it ti term or not. And if she choses not to abortion should be a safe legal option and if she choses to have a child there should support in terms of prenatal care, child care, nutrition assistance , etc.

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 01:30 PM

22. Cool, than you should advocate for mandatory vasectomies for all males.

Much easier way to regulate unwanted pregnancies than any other options. No?

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 03:05 PM

24. no

I think advocating for acces to BC and sex education in schools makes more sense than mandatory vasectomies.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 10:54 AM

14. For all the fellas in the thread

You know what to do (or don't do) so do it (or don't do it).

Simple as that.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 11:32 AM

18. One other thing you're missing

MASSIVE support for any child - utterly remove the financial problems that an unplanned pregnancy can cause.

'Course this would require more spending on programs like WIC, SNAP, Medicaid. Which oddly the anti-abortion crowd fights against. Almost like they don't actually give a damn about children.....

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 13, 2013, 04:52 PM

25. I forget where, maybe a tom tomorrow cartoon

Made the case that the GOP believes the government should take care of you when if you are a foetus or millionaire. Anything else and you are on your own.

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