HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Where do all the angry wh...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 12:36 PM

Where do all the angry white men come from?

His latest work strokes a broad, acerbic brush over the white supremacists of the Mason-Dixon line, the NRA and Tea Party stalwarts of the Bible Belt, the men's rights activists of cyberspace and the high school spree shooters of parental nightmares. The common feature, he argues, is their shared belief that certain degrees of status, privilege and social advantage, perceived to be their natural or god-given rights, have been snatched away by sudden social change. The resulting anger is targeted not at a globalised neoliberal economic system that has declared ordinary people expendable – irrespective of their race, class or gender – but immigration, civil rights and feminism. In a sense Kimmel is describing the irrational emotional fallout of the economic gender revolution detailed in books like Stiffed and The End of Men.

The thesis can only really be made to work by means of tortuous logic which excludes all expressions of violence and anger from non-whites, non-males or those, like Anders Breivik, who were forged in a very different cultural furnace. Kimmel also glosses over alternative explanations, most notably in his case studies of high school spree shooters, which quite clearly point to aggressive bullying and emotional abuse as the principal cause of the switch being flipped to overload.

Nonetheless there is more than a jingling ring of truth to his argument. When one looks at the horrific abuse meted out to feminist campaigners such as Caroline Criado-Perez for having the temerity to ask that a woman should feature on British banknotes, to Laura Bates for fighting back against street harassment and everyday sexism, or to Anita Sarkeesian for highlighting sexist tropes in video games, it is hard to see it as anything but aggrieved entitlement. The hate campaigns seem firmly rooted in outrage that uppity girls should be intruding upon men's inalienable right to behave how they like, harass who they want, control culture as they wish and shape society in their own image. Like: "You'll prise Lara Croft's skimpy shorts from my cold, dead hands."

It is easy, and indeed essential, to condemn such misogynistic hate campaigns. However if those attitudes are at least partially stoked by very real and profound economic and social changes that have left some men feeling disempowered, marginalised, maligned and neglected, is it enough to simply demand that they suck it up and deal with it? I'm not sure.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/07/angry-white-men-gender-stereotyping

80 replies, 3542 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 80 replies Author Time Post
Reply Where do all the angry white men come from? (Original post)
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 OP
NuclearDem Nov 2013 #1
HappyMe Nov 2013 #6
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #7
NuclearDem Nov 2013 #10
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #15
Dr. Strange Nov 2013 #9
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #16
theHandpuppet Nov 2013 #69
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #74
randome Nov 2013 #2
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #11
RobertEarl Nov 2013 #3
Whisp Nov 2013 #4
polichick Nov 2013 #5
pscot Nov 2013 #8
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #12
polichick Nov 2013 #13
Fumesucker Nov 2013 #18
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #20
Fumesucker Nov 2013 #33
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #37
polichick Nov 2013 #24
Fumesucker Nov 2013 #31
polichick Nov 2013 #34
HappyMe Nov 2013 #22
polichick Nov 2013 #26
HappyMe Nov 2013 #32
Springslips Nov 2013 #39
polichick Nov 2013 #44
seabeyond Nov 2013 #46
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #48
Springslips Nov 2013 #61
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #71
noiretextatique Nov 2013 #72
Fumesucker Nov 2013 #14
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #19
Fumesucker Nov 2013 #28
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #35
brewens Nov 2013 #17
Jamaal510 Nov 2013 #40
Silent3 Nov 2013 #21
brewens Nov 2013 #73
Kurska Nov 2013 #23
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #27
Kurska Nov 2013 #38
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #45
Mr Dixon Nov 2013 #25
freshwest Nov 2013 #52
alp227 Nov 2013 #75
Deep13 Nov 2013 #29
noiretextatique Nov 2013 #30
LanternWaste Nov 2013 #36
Arugula Latte Nov 2013 #41
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #42
HappyMe Nov 2013 #56
Rozlee Nov 2013 #62
seabeyond Nov 2013 #43
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #47
seabeyond Nov 2013 #49
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #50
seabeyond Nov 2013 #51
Locrian Nov 2013 #53
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #57
Initech Nov 2013 #54
lunasun Nov 2013 #55
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #58
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #59
Spitfire of ATJ Nov 2013 #60
cyberswede Nov 2013 #63
Rozlee Nov 2013 #64
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #68
AgingAmerican Nov 2013 #65
chervilant Nov 2013 #66
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #67
BainsBane Nov 2013 #70
Zambero Nov 2013 #76
Warpy Nov 2013 #77
Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #78
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #79
Warren DeMontague Nov 2013 #80

Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 12:50 PM

1. Angry white mothers' vaginas?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NuclearDem (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 12:58 PM

6. I would agree.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NuclearDem (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:02 PM

7. Happy mommies vaginas!

They say, oh, it's a boy!

The article is worth reading you should try it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:03 PM

10. I did read it, just felt the need for a stupid joke.

Manboobz is one of my all time favorite blogs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NuclearDem (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:09 PM

15. Oh, I'm sorry

I didn't mean to offend you

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NuclearDem (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:03 PM

9. Angry White Vaginas

I'm almost certain this is an upcoming movie on SyFy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dr. Strange (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:09 PM

16. That's been done under the code name "Twilight"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dr. Strange (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 04:42 PM

69. If only women had VAGINADOS!

Misogyny would be but a totally abstract concept.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to theHandpuppet (Reply #69)

Fri Nov 8, 2013, 01:36 AM

74. You know that sounds like fast food

Right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 12:53 PM

2. Angry white storks?



There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:03 PM

11. Looking under angry cabbage patches?

Clearly a definite need for improved sex ed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 12:56 PM

3. Men are dogs

I should know, I am an old one.

Men have made a mess of the world, for sure. Been telling them that for 30 years and yet they keep on messing things up.

Used to be a man could head out hunting for a few weeks at a time, and when they got home the fires were still burning - warm, soft and wet.

Now we have fast autos that drive themselves! Instant coms that keep track of you. Nuclear bombs to make us all feel safe. Eh?

Women lost control of men a long time ago and now it's all messed up.

This post written with a great slobbering amount of tongue-in-cheek words. Be careful of eating them as a snack, or lunch. Might make you start barking....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 12:57 PM

4. Excellent article.

Fears that a black man being President could lead up to a Woman President, and I ain't havin' no woman tell ME what to do is part of it all! It's prevalent and not only found in the outhouses of the Baggers.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 12:57 PM

5. They remind me of that "only child" who can't accept the new baby.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to polichick (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:02 PM

8. That's pretty offensive

From the comments thread:
You can tell me boardrooms are filled with white males. You can talk about equality and a fairer deal for women, for racial minorities and homosexuals and I would agree completely- in principle.

But telling me white hetero males have an advantage means nothing if I'm white, male and hetero and I can't get a job, I'm treated as part of an underclass, and categorised as 'part of the problem' by feminists

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pscot (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:05 PM

12. There are many who it white males who try to be part of the solution.

And usually succeed

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to pscot (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:05 PM

13. Good grief, white males have been "king of the mountain" for hundreds of years...

Suddenly they're crying because the mountaintop is no longer always theirs?! Boo-hoo.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to polichick (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:11 PM

18. Sixteen tons was written by a white man about part of the white experience

Some people say a man is made outta mud
A poor man's made outta muscle and blood
Muscle and blood and skin and bones
A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store

I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine
I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine
I loaded sixteen tons of number nine coal
And the straw boss said "Well, a-bless my soul"

You load sixteen tons, what do you get
Another day older and deeper in debt
Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
I owe my soul to the company store


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:14 PM

20. Love that song

I didn't realize it was about the white male working class

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #20)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:28 PM

33. Coal mining is an Appalachian phenomenon largely and it was (and is?) mostly white males doing it

The experience certainly isn't exclusively white but it is mostly white.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:36 PM

37. It's profound when you think about it

The manipulation of Appalachian coal miners is a perfect example of using a demographic (white males) to reinforce classism as well as toxic gender standards while at the same time creating fear of the "other"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:19 PM

24. I have compassion for poor people, just not more for poor white males than others.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to polichick (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:26 PM

31. As a I wrote just recently, I prefer to treat people as individuals rather than as part of a group

Unfortunately very often a full wallet complains more loudly than an empty belly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #31)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:28 PM

34. Too bad more white males don't treat others as individuals - maybe women would...

make $1 for the $1 a male makes - and black males wouldn't be profiled as often.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to polichick (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:16 PM

22. I don't know a single white guy that complains

or cries about that. Not one.

I'm pretty sure you are referring to the Limbaugh type men, no?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HappyMe (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:20 PM

26. I was referring to the "angry white men" in the op title.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to polichick (Reply #26)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:27 PM

32. Asshats and fools.

Like I said I don't know any like that, and if I did wouldn't listen to anything they had to say.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to polichick (Reply #13)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:42 PM

39. I agree with your point but.

I agree with your gist: nobody should expect preference over other groups because he is a white man. And certainly hundreds of year of wasp-male domination was wrong.

But I hate the structure of your argument; not one white male living today was king of the mountain for those hundreds of years. I've seen this argument used many times before and it is invalid.

Use another argument.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Springslips (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:55 PM

44. I'll stick with the analogy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Springslips (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:00 PM

46. no. but his opinions and thought were listened to while others were ignored.

or he was the one addressed when it was time for a decision to be made. or he did not get the mark up at the auto repair shop or buying a vehicle like the woman did. or his medical issues were studied and researched at the expense of others.

thru out life, he had advantages that others did not, that he does not even recognize, simply because he is man.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Springslips (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:04 PM

48. Why do you think it's invalid?

Because of socio-economic influences?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #48)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:57 PM

61. Yes somewhat. It treats the individual and a group as the same.

A kin to guilt by association.

The original post showed disgust of the angry white men because, " they were the top of the mountain for hundreds of years." Yet I believe there is not a single angry white man around who is hundred of years old, and took great advantage of other groups in those years. Let's invent a Mike, a teabaggers ignoramus: he is an angry white male and blames affirmative action for the fact he's stagnant in his career, and drips with white privilege and entitlement. It would be invalid to say to him, " shut up and take it, after all you ran things for 500- years." Mike did not run things for 500- years.

Now Mike's is certainly wrong, for many other easily pointed out reasons. And certainly it is true that white male privilege and supremacy did advantage Mike over minorities and women to some degree that Mike isn't willing to admit, and yes this does entail ancestral heritage to some extent. Yet it is likely that Mike comes from common stock and his ancestress did not actually stand at the top of the hill, and his poorly hidden racial beliefs are relics pass down by, and reinforced today by, upper class propaganda aimed at splitting the lower classes via race, sex, gender, sexuality, ect.

Which is another reason I don't like the argument: it forgets the role of class.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Springslips (Reply #61)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 04:54 PM

71. It's kind of like a continuum

Starting with the white male, then the white female, then various races and ethnicities and cultures THEN you get to classism.

A quote by somebody; "everyone has privilege, it's just a matter of what and how much"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Springslips (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 05:14 PM

72. the key to this argument is one word: perception

whether an individual was or was not king of the mountain has nothing to do with the issue, except in a perverse sort of way. the author suggested that members of rw extremist groups have this in common: a perceived sense of entitlement, and a perceived sense of victimization because of cultural changes, e.g., competition from non-whites, and white women in the workforce. so, their perceptions are in fact that they should be kings of the mountain, and that women and minorities have taken their rightful place. white men who are not rw extremists probably do not have those same perceptions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:08 PM

14. They are made to a surprising extent

Listening to talk radio, watching Fox, reading and posting to Free Republic and on and on.

It's designed to keep you angry because anger is addictive and you'll keep coming back for your fix. The fact that the anger is a political tool used by cynical elites doesn't register with most of them.

Such and old technique really, I'm sometimes surprised how many people can't see it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #14)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:13 PM

19. The article suggest changing culture

Which is inclusive I thought.

Yes, men need to change and adapt to a rapidly shifting world. So too does the culture in which those angry white men are forged.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:22 PM

28. White males in particular have been cynically manipulated with cunning propaganda

It's insidious and it's everywhere, the complaint here on DU is that Fox News is on in a great, great many public places and I suspect that many of the complainers aren't part of the target demographic, white males.

Try finding liberal talk radio in most markets in the US, it'll be some low powered station that can't be heard further than you can spit if it exists at all. Meanwhile conservative talkers are everywhere over the radio dial.





Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #28)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:30 PM

35. That I agree with 100%

The messages white males are constantly hit with are about what supports a perverse masculinity, (like Republicans) using heteronormative standards.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:10 PM

17. I know several guys that will tell you the white male is the most discriminated agains.

These guys have lived their entire life in Idaho. They probably all have gotten jobs over minorities at one time or another because they were a good ol' boy. Still, they believe it because at one time or another, a minority actually got a fair shot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brewens (Reply #17)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:45 PM

40. If they

believe that they're being discriminated against, I'd be more than willing to trade places with them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:15 PM

21. My fundy sister has complained about "white Christians" being under attack.

It's not just men with these issues.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Silent3 (Reply #21)

Fri Nov 8, 2013, 12:24 AM

73. They love to be persecuted! Try and stop the from forcing their superstition on the rest of us

and they are being attacked!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:16 PM

23. You know some white men get pretty angry about the right stuff.

I'll admit that the poor treatment of workers and gay people in this country gets me pretty heated at times.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kurska (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:21 PM

27. Don't you think that transcends whiteness?

Or rather acknowledges white privilege and abhors social injustice?

There is a power inequity, and white men who use that power for positive change and social growth aren't at issue here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #27)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:37 PM

38. I think there is a definite imbalance of power between different races in our society.

And that white people pretty much uniformly get the better end of that deal.

I don't like the term white privilege, because I think far too often it is a description of a statistical average (white people being generally better off) that is applied on the individual basis. I've known white people that grew up with basically the entire deck stacked against them (poor, biological problems, abusive parents etc...) in that respect I'd consider them way worse off than a very wealthy African American going to a private school from a loving family. To me, the term white privilege implies that every white person has an innate advantage over every minority. We're all a function of many very different socioeconomic factors and I think that "white privilege" is too much of a simplification. Essentially, I think it is fair to say white people enjoy an unfair advantage, but I don't think it is fair to say any individual white person is "privileged" if all you know about them is their race.

That said being white is on the whole going to give you a better footing in society. There is a ton of empirical evidence for that, like "white sounding names" receiving on average far more interview call backs than "black sounding names" when you empirically control for qualifications. I can probably find the journal article for that if you want.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kurska (Reply #38)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:56 PM

45. Whiteness is called "the invisible standard"

Against all else is measured; I think about being white in the terms of privilege. Otherwise I have no frame of reference other than racism. And that's why I use the term. I think white privilege grossly misunderstood sometimes.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:19 PM

25. IMO

Last edited Thu Nov 7, 2013, 07:00 PM - Edit history (1)

WOW I find it funny that the angry white males are rebelling against change when they have been the benefactors for so long. For every perceived injustice brought upon them in this so-called new society of change. Cry me a river that you’re not in the cat bird seat any more, everyone should be equal, equal work for equal pay, black, white, male, female, gay or str8 EQUAL is key word. The bottom line is the rich have jettison the poor white man, now he has to get in line with those whom he used to look down upon, sucks doesn’t? Well here is the upside, your blinders have been removed, “you can see clearly now the rain in gone, you can see all the obstacles in our way”.


The analogy is: peasants and noblemen, some peasants are selected to keep the rest of the peasants in check while the noblemen screw us all; problem is once the castle walls are high enough (Rich enough) then all the peasants become unless to the Rich/noblemen, then you’re shoved back in with the rest of us peasants, welcome home.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mr Dixon (Reply #25)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:23 PM

52. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mr Dixon (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 8, 2013, 02:22 AM

75. I think there's this underlying FEAR of equality,

because equality means that "white male" is no longer the default standard of "American". That is why Prop. 8 passed in California. That is why "feminism" and "affirmative action" are dirty words. America has a ME culture. A ME culture that has brainwashed white men into believing they're the superior type of person. If you want to see that mentality in the extreme, look up "anti-white" paranoia or white nationalism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:24 PM

29. They object to loosing their privileged position...

...while at the same time denying that a privilege exists. In fact, most white men are no better off than anyone else, but the patriarchal system conditions white men to defend the status quo, because that's just the way it is supposed to be.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:25 PM

30. "perceived to be their natural or god-given rights"

i think this is key:
"...the NRA and Tea Party stalwarts of the Bible Belt, the men's rights activists of cyberspace and the high school spree shooters of parental nightmares. The common feature, he argues, is their shared belief that certain degrees of status, privilege and social advantage, perceived to be their natural or god-given rights, have been snatched away by sudden social change."

its the perception of their "rightful" place in society that drives angry white men, and the perception that some undeserving other has taken their rightful place. poor and working class white people can have this perception, even though they may not benefit from having those beliefs. and yeah: suck it up and deal with.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:30 PM

36. It seems that the most entrenched, the most privileged, the most entitled demographics are often...

It seems that the most entrenched, the most privileged, the most entitled demographics are often the first (and the loudest) to cry "oppression" when other demographics attempt to share those very same privileges and entitlements.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LanternWaste (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:50 PM

41. Yes, the "Class Warfare!" squeals by the top 1 percent (& their media slaves) are a perfect example.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LanternWaste (Reply #36)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:52 PM

42. It's been going on for centuries

I think that's why it's so hard for some to acknowledge. There are white males and white women for that matter see themselves as oppressed by programs such as affirmative action, which existed to create racial balance. If we could get the ERA passed, that would help with gender imbalance.

I had a professor once who said modern racism could be traced to the English defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588- the Spanish the original "brown people" while extensive racism certainly existed prior to that; he said that was the victory that solidified "white power" in politics on the world stage

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #42)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:35 PM

56. White people have always had it way easier.

My grandparents came here from Poland, and faced a bunch of challenges. But they were never turned away from a job, apartment or anything based solely on skin color.

I always laugh when republicans say that migrant workers are taking good American jobs. Really? Pack up yourself and your white family and go do that back breaking work for a couple of bucks a day.

You know, I really don't know how to feel about being a white woman. Grateful? Guilty? I know that I have always had it easier than any woman of color.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HappyMe (Reply #56)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 03:01 PM

62. Yeah, I laugh at that 'taking away good American jobs' stuff too.

Like the great American dream job of plucking chicken feathers, which was the first job my parents had when they landed in the US. Quite glamorous, that. I think that's where my mom picked up TB.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:53 PM

43. i wrote a post about this, or kinda, the other day. just copying and posting

think back to when the 40-60 yr olds were teenage friends.

the guys i hung with were open, nonsexist, pretty cool dudes. fast forward. this is what we see.

more what i think is that misogyny is there. and growing with the net and the norm of porn, the sex trafficking ect... mens group and connection to them thru the net. the inundation of the ugly allowed to be said everywhere about women, all the time, from everyone. limbaugh for example. everywhere in our society. media. entertainment. i saw your boobie, with a fuckin hollywood something.

right now, our boys have not faced much of life and still optimistic. they have not faced the disappointments or hurts for the most part.

the grueling structure of simple life.

i think by 40 all of us, but men recognize the dishonesty of the story told them. disappointment ect... all thru the eyes of privilege and entitlement. and you know what? they did not get what was owed them. whereas the women are saying, we do not owe you shit, lol. to different pulls that separate greater.

i think that basis is there. well established. the base sexism/misogyny. and i think that by 40 they embrace it as a truth as an excuse for whatever uncomfortable feelings. they have had 40 yrs of being conditioned by society seeing women as things, parts, inferior.

i do not think our boys are gonna have it any better. cause of the social culture being fed them. unless.... they take the time to recognize and say no.... not their life. i think a lot of kids are doing that. i think that our generation is fuckin up once again, lol and this will be a learning lesson for our young. that is what i am seeing anyway.

interesting question.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to seabeyond (Reply #43)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:01 PM

47. One thing that is changing Sea

Is the mixing of races and cultures, I know it's still largely segregated, but slowly improving.

The sexism; it's like stepping in a huge pile of dogshit, you think you've cleaned it off, but you still smell it and you realize there's just more of it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #47)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:08 PM

49. my niece was in tears today. a working mom dealing with a sick child after sick child.

and try to keep her job.

how much privilege and entitlement factors into it. and where it leaves women.

me looking back over my last 20, and where it leaves me.

my mother and where it left her.

at the least. my niece got a hard dose of reality of our roles in life.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to seabeyond (Reply #49)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:12 PM

50. That is infuriating

Working with women, we give a lot of leeway for say, breast feeding mothers, we do have decent maternity leave but still not enough support as the children grow. It's so hard.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #50)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:21 PM

51. i feel for her. at this age with the young ones going into school, they are getting

sick all the time. she has another five years with the youngest still having to get to more an immune stage. she the only always up in middle of night taking care of. the one to take off work. the one to take to the doctor.

then, women are ragged on for not being nice, giving, sexy or adventurous enough.

i was so damn lucky (and so was hubby) that i could stay home and be tired and do all this with him having absolutely NO interference in his work life.

i do not know how women do it. unless they just have a break down in tears here and there. put head down, and continue on

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:24 PM

53. Riane Eisler

In domination-oriented systems, men are socialized to distance themselves from women and anything stereotypically considered feminine. But in partnership-oriented cultures, men can give more value to caring, caregiving, nonviolence, and other traits and activities deemed inappropriate for men in dominator societies because they’re associated with “inferior” femininity.


http://www.rianeeisler.com/books.htm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Locrian (Reply #53)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:51 PM

57. Nice!

Great author

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:25 PM

54. My theory is that they scored low on South Park's TMI scale.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:26 PM

55. where ever they come from, I just wish they would go back !!

America 2013 - Love it or Leave it

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:52 PM

58. "Most men are assholes."

According to most women.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:54 PM

59. Not the men in my life

I think that must be a very sad thing to experience

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #59)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:57 PM

60. But common.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 03:13 PM

63. No...

Some men and women are assholes, according to everyone on earth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 03:29 PM

64. The article did make sense about a real problem for men in gender assigned roles.

Such as mentioning that we women have expanded our roles to include choices that in the past were closed to us such as doctors, pilots, police officers and other traditional male vocations. I was a soldier, just a nurse since the military doesn't allow women to serve in its elite fighting forces. But, like the op states, men are still expected to be protectors and providers in our society. Their roles are expected to be manly and able to support their families. Look at women's fiction and men's action movies. C'mon, admit it. How often is the hero an interior decorator or a guy that works the evening shift at Burger King? No, the hero is always a cop, an international spy, a rugged Army Ranger or some type of he-man. He may also be a vampire or werewolf, but he won't be no interior decorator or work at the Taco Cabana for barely over minimum wage. Women can still be thought of as pretty and sexy being doctors, firefighters and working for minimum wage at a burger joint. A guy that's an administrative assistant or one that's in a minimum wage job isn't considered as desirable or manly to many unenlightened people.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rozlee (Reply #64)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 03:59 PM

68. Thank you

You "got" it!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 03:29 PM

65. Uneducated parents

nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 03:29 PM

66. Thanks for this post.

I wish this had gotten more attention. The "bro code" strikes me as the latest incarnation of "male privilege," and Thomas Keith's documentary shows just how much the stereotypes we inflict on our children are damaging to us all. To whit:

--College age women are four times more likely to be sexually assaulted than any other age group.

--56% of college males surveyed reported that they would rape a woman if they were certain they would get away with it.

--84% of women who are raped know their assailant.

--99% of convicted rapists are men (52% white, 16% black)

--Men commit suicide four times more than women.

And the admins remain unresponsive to Feminist DUers' repeated requests that the TOS be revised to address the sexism and misogyny on this forum. I am dumbfounded by this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to chervilant (Reply #66)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 03:58 PM

67. You're very welcome

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 04:46 PM

70. Hate campaigns against "uppity girls"

Sounds familiar.

Kudos for the GD post. I was surprised to see you post in here but am glad you did.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2013, 02:40 AM

76. Figments of their own pseudo-superior imaginations

Change is universal and inevitable. Acceptance of change is not always. Those who perceive loss of a long-held privileged status will either come to grips with and accept the fact that they are not inherently superior to others, or express outright hostility when confronted with it. Right wing propagandists and quite a few of their political adherents would be out of business without the latter category.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2013, 02:52 AM

77. Most of them between their mid 60s and early 80s

served in the peacetime military and never had an occasion to think of war as anything other but glory and who never had any reason to doubt any of the political propaganda they were fed. They were Nixon's "silent generation" and Reagan's apocryphal "Reagan Democrats."

The Boomer angry white males were usually more rural than other Boomers and missed the whole party in the 60s. That's really why they're angry and why they rave and rant about hippies all the time. They also saw the biggest drop in men's wages ever along with seeing their full time domestic servants (wives) need to go out to work and that makes them angry too. They never seem to connect the dots about their paychecks buying less and less each year and vicious conservative policy.

The saddest are Gen X who were kids during Reagan's 8 years and who were soothed by his pitchman's voice into voting GOP ever since, thus deepening the debt hole they're still standing in.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Original post)

Fri Nov 8, 2013, 02:54 AM

78. Inside the radio.

That's why they're so small. And pissed. It smells like burnt hair in there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #78)

Fri Nov 8, 2013, 02:56 AM

79. ....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #79)

Fri Nov 8, 2013, 03:05 AM

80. This right here?



Why I stopped droppin' acid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread