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Wed Nov 6, 2013, 07:24 AM

I hate to do this thread, but it seems to be time again: I'm a male survivor of abuse

I don't bring this up much, because it's none of your fucking business. My arguments stand or fall on their own whatever my experience has been.

That said, somehow whenever women start to band together and address the horrible extent of abuse women face, a certain phalanx of male voices somehow seem to find their way into the conversation to deny them the legitimacy of their grievances. Funny how that happens, yes?

Point 1, since I started with it, if you too are a male survivor of abuse, there are several safe places on the Internet for you to start healing; the one I know best is http://www.malesurvivor.org

Point 2, survivors never, ever, ever de-legitimize the sufferings of other survivors.

I'll be the first to say: male abuse survivors face unique challenges; there is a code of silence that tells us our abuse didn't happen. But guess what: female survivers are told their abuse didn't happen, and if it did, it was their fault.

But none of that matters. Surviving abuse is not a contest. That's actually the #1 way to tell a survivor: we don't compare scars.

Point 3, the existence of abuse against male children does not in any way undo the societal and universal pressure that forces female children who are abused into silence and self-hate.

Anyways, whenever I see DU approaching a moment I can't live with anymore, I feel the need to post something like this.

Male survivors are not enemies of feminists; we're quite often your allies, and using abuse of males to minimize abuse of females is a tactic worthy of Goebbels. Fuck them.

EDIT: I just wanted to make a point about MaleSurvivor and gender identification: if you have at any point biologically or socially identified as male you are welcome there. Cis-men, trans-men, trans-women -- we're all trying to live and grow. It's worth saying hello.

126 replies, 7737 views

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Reply I hate to do this thread, but it seems to be time again: I'm a male survivor of abuse (Original post)
Recursion Nov 2013 OP
trumad Nov 2013 #1
roguevalley Nov 2013 #95
thucythucy Nov 2013 #2
Recursion Nov 2013 #4
thucythucy Nov 2013 #7
Recursion Nov 2013 #9
boston bean Nov 2013 #13
Recursion Nov 2013 #16
boston bean Nov 2013 #20
Recursion Nov 2013 #43
lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #59
Whisp Nov 2013 #77
thucythucy Nov 2013 #15
Recursion Nov 2013 #18
LiberalLoner Nov 2013 #60
pitbullgirl1965 Nov 2013 #71
deafskeptic Nov 2013 #51
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2013 #79
IdaBriggs Nov 2013 #3
Recursion Nov 2013 #5
IdaBriggs Nov 2013 #6
boston bean Nov 2013 #8
Recursion Nov 2013 #14
boston bean Nov 2013 #21
whttevrr Nov 2013 #49
Recursion Nov 2013 #57
whttevrr Nov 2013 #61
brer cat Nov 2013 #10
HappyMe Nov 2013 #11
riderinthestorm Nov 2013 #12
Recursion Nov 2013 #23
seabeyond Nov 2013 #17
Recursion Nov 2013 #19
Festivito Nov 2013 #22
sheshe2 Nov 2013 #24
Recursion Nov 2013 #26
cate94 Nov 2013 #25
moriah Nov 2013 #27
OneGrassRoot Nov 2013 #28
Recursion Nov 2013 #30
WCLinolVir Nov 2013 #29
Starry Messenger Nov 2013 #31
seabeyond Nov 2013 #32
Recursion Nov 2013 #33
MineralMan Nov 2013 #34
whathehell Nov 2013 #35
JNelson6563 Nov 2013 #36
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2013 #82
JNelson6563 Nov 2013 #108
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2013 #124
PasadenaTrudy Nov 2013 #37
librechik Nov 2013 #38
Recursion Nov 2013 #40
moriah Nov 2013 #46
Recursion Nov 2013 #47
librechik Nov 2013 #50
Recursion Nov 2013 #52
Ghost Dog Nov 2013 #112
librechik Nov 2013 #123
Jackpine Radical Nov 2013 #39
Dorian Gray Nov 2013 #41
Marrah_G Nov 2013 #42
nolabear Nov 2013 #44
Recursion Nov 2013 #45
whttevrr Nov 2013 #48
Grateful for Hope Nov 2013 #53
lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #54
MindPilot Nov 2013 #55
Recursion Nov 2013 #56
LiberalLoner Nov 2013 #62
Recursion Nov 2013 #64
LiberalLoner Nov 2013 #66
whttevrr Nov 2013 #67
Skittles Nov 2013 #88
Arcanetrance Nov 2013 #58
hedgehog Nov 2013 #63
ancianita Nov 2013 #65
calimary Nov 2013 #68
eridani Nov 2013 #103
seabeyond Nov 2013 #104
Scruffy Rumbler Nov 2013 #69
msanthrope Nov 2013 #70
riqster Nov 2013 #72
Warpy Nov 2013 #73
valerief Nov 2013 #74
me b zola Nov 2013 #75
4Q2u2 Nov 2013 #76
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2013 #78
Chiquitita Nov 2013 #80
LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #81
raging moderate Nov 2013 #83
wysi Nov 2013 #84
polly7 Nov 2013 #85
Hekate Nov 2013 #86
Number23 Nov 2013 #87
jimlup Nov 2013 #89
NYC_SKP Nov 2013 #90
Android3.14 Nov 2013 #91
seabeyond Nov 2013 #92
Android3.14 Nov 2013 #97
seabeyond Nov 2013 #99
Nine Nov 2013 #93
yardwork Nov 2013 #94
BainsBane Nov 2013 #96
BillyRibs Nov 2013 #98
chervilant Nov 2013 #100
chknltl Nov 2013 #101
Ghost Dog Nov 2013 #113
MichiganVote Nov 2013 #102
Rosa Luxemburg Nov 2013 #106
Prophet 451 Nov 2013 #105
8 track mind Nov 2013 #107
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #109
La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2013 #110
Deep13 Nov 2013 #111
Behind the Aegis Nov 2013 #114
BainsBane Nov 2013 #115
Behind the Aegis Nov 2013 #117
BainsBane Nov 2013 #120
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #116
Behind the Aegis Nov 2013 #118
ismnotwasm Nov 2013 #122
Bonobo Nov 2013 #119
steve2470 Nov 2013 #121
cherokeeprogressive Nov 2013 #125
steve2470 Nov 2013 #126

Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 07:44 AM

1. Great post...

and that's how you do it.

I despise male members hopping into a thread about female abuse to diminish the errr thread.

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Response to trumad (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 07:18 PM

95. a member of my family is one. he is the best boy ever but hooked up with a

Woman who uses their son like a hammer. It is soul killing to watch one bitter woman crush a good man and his family. There are abusers in both genders.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 07:55 AM

2. Thank you for this post!

This is an extremely important list of points that all need to be told, and told, and told again.

I would add just one more: that just as male survivors are not the enemies of feminists, feminists are not the enemies of male survivors, much as the "men's rights" folks would want us to believe otherwise. What support male survivors receive in this culture--and it's way way too little--is generally the result of the ground-breaking work done by the feminist rape survivor movement beginning in the early '70s. I volunteered at a rape crisis center for ten years, back in the day. Everyone I knew then in the anti-rape movement, mostly women, sometimes men, understood that men and boys can also be targets of abuse, and responded to this fact with the same compassion, sympathy, and skill-set that they used when working with female survivors to help them through the trauma.

IMHO, this whole notion that it's somehow feminists who stand in the way of male survivors getting the help and attention they need is just pure BS.

Thank you again for this post, and best wishes.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 07:58 AM

4. Thank you Thucy!

Obviously this is kind of a putting-myself-out-there-naked moment for me, and I really appreciate your response.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:07 AM

7. You're very welcome!

As a rape survivor myself, I know the feeling of "putting myself out there naked"--and have I think a fairly good understanding of the kind of courage that takes.

Your post is the best thing I've read on DU in a long long time.

Again, thank you for your courage and your eloquence.

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:14 AM

9. Here's the disparity

I can guarantee you I will not face death or rape threats for what I posted here. Can you guarantee the same for a woman posting about abuse, even on DU? Sigh...

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Response to Recursion (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:21 AM

13. There is one poster who is so angry with me

and says I hate men, and is constantly calling me a misandrist. The posts drip with personal anger against me.

It's unnerving. The dislike this poster has for me on a personal level is concerning and over the top. Luckily this poster doesn't know me from a whole in the wall. But the constant harassment (yes, that is what it is) because I speak of feminist issues, does make it a uncomfortable. Not gonna drive me off DU though... Peeps like you make it worthwhile.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:25 AM

16. I'm so sorry, boston bean



That makes me really sad. I don't think he's angry "with you", FWIW, just "angry". But that doesn't help.

But it mostly just makes me sad that anybody could make you uncomfortable. Sigh.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:31 AM

20. Thanks, recursion.

This poster keeps handy links of post of mine years old to PROVE my misandry..... That's what makes it feel personal. Know what I mean?

Take care and thank you so much for your kind words!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:59 AM

43. Oh, one of those?

Sigh. Let me know if you need a beat-down to happen.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #43)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:10 AM

59. "A beat-down"?

I think this post undermines what was a very good OP.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #59)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 03:16 PM

77. ...

 

...

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Response to Recursion (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:24 AM

15. Sigh indeed... nt

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:26 AM

18. I stress, "even on DU"

That's what breaks my heart. This used to be a safe place for everybody.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:11 AM

60. +1

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Response to Recursion (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:47 PM

71. I don't feel safe here either.

Apparently admin believes in having a Big Tent:

Extreme anti choice members are welcome as long as they don't cause too much trouble.

I call out a joke about lynching with #strangefruit, and get a LOL this isn't twitter!!!
Oh and two other posters thought the joke was hilarious.

The MRA types, like the person Boston Bean is talking about. I've had the same issues with this person too.
I haven't looked but apparently there was some nasty homophobia on the Chelsea Manning threads.




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Response to thucythucy (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:29 AM

51. if i could do so, I'd recomend your post as well as the op's post. n/t

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Response to thucythucy (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 04:31 PM

79. +a jillion n/t

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 07:58 AM

3. No words.

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Response to IdaBriggs (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:01 AM

5. Thank you, Ida

That hug means a lot

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Response to Recursion (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:03 AM

6. Then have another - and a kick because this is an AWESOME post.

And I really want it to stay on the front page for a bit so more people will see it.









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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:08 AM

8. Acknowledging and working to minimize violence against women

does not mean you don't care about violence against men. Or that you hate men, or that you are a misandrist.

I will never understand how that argument flies or gains any traction, but it does.

It's twisted.

PS Thank you for your post. I hope you are doing well. Your voice is very much needed.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:21 AM

14. Isn't it fucked up?

Goebbels-like, as I mentioned. Sigh.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:32 AM

21. It's just the strangest, backwards thing....

It's hard to explain, but you managed to do it!

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Response to boston bean (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:23 AM

49. It doesn't, it didn't...

You are right, that argument sucks.

This weird fight against women making choices for their own bodies is infuriating. I'm deep in a blue state and just could not imagine what it is like for young people living deep in the red. It scares me... wtf? I thought this fight was done?

Hang in there! This man wants to see women win!

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Response to whttevrr (Reply #49)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:00 AM

57. It's weird, no?

I still don't get it.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #57)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:18 AM

61. Very weird...

I did not ever expect to see the kind of posts that I've seen here recently.

Abuse, rape blaming and the right to choose have one thing in common: "Power"

Everyone has the right to say yes or no when it comes to what happens to their body. Period.

No one has the right to exert power over another persons choice.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:19 AM

10. This post is both courageous

and exceptional. Your points are well made, and we need to hear them. Your last paragraph about the inclusiveness of MaleSurvivor is a message DU needs to take to heart. We should be a place where all survivors can live and grow, where none hear that is their fault or that they are less worthy of our support.

Thank you for bringing this forward, Recursion.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:20 AM

11. You are absolutely right. It isn't a contest.

Abuse is abuse. Empathy and caring for victims should be universal, no matter the gender.



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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:20 AM

12. Be well Recursion (((hug))). Big K& R nt

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:35 AM

23. Thank you riderinthestorm!

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:25 AM

17. and you show us ALL, recursion, it can be done. both genders, abuse, huge issue and should be

addressed loudly and often, in support.

as a feminist i absolutely 100% stand up for our boys and men that are raped and abused ALWAYS. i have your back. and i so, from the bottom of my heart, appreciate, you have mine.

thank you.

now, i want to see the mens group have a sticky with info so any man that sits in silence, has contact info.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:27 AM

19. Thank you so much seabeyond

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:34 AM

22. Thanks for the piece of insight.

Son of a friend from church, my much younger friend, he was abused as a boy. Never directly said. Side comments are crafted to let receptive listeners capture the gist. Perpetrating family member in jail.

I expect there to be a reaction some day. I just want to be ready. I'll be sure not to delegitimize the feelings. Thank you. Got the website too.

One never knows when these things will help.

Thanks for the share.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:42 AM

24. You stated that so simply, so eloquently.

For all of us, the survivors, strength and compassion.

Thank you Recursion.

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:44 AM

26. Thank you, sheshe2

What kills me not had better star running.

That's the attitude we all should have at this point.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:43 AM

25. Thank you for your post.




Thank you for the courage to speak up.

This is so true; "using the abuse of males to minimize the abuse of females is a tactic worthy of Goebbels."

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:46 AM

27. Thank you for breaking the silence.

I'm not sure if you've seen this, and it may be triggering, but it helped a friend of mine who is a survivor as well to know he was not alone.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/spenceralthouse/male-survivors-of-sexual-assault-quoting-the-people-who-a

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:47 AM

28. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Huge K&R and....

big hugs of gratitude sent your way!!!!

"Surviving abuse is not a contest."




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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #28)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:49 AM

30. Thank you!

And hugs right back at you.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:49 AM

29. As a fellow survivor, thank you.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:54 AM

31. k&r

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:58 AM

32. my first experience with male abuse and the hypocrisy was my brother. decades ago.

his GF thought it cute to kick him in his crotch. he was telling me and i told him, hit her back. (i am a total pacifist and never use violence or endorse it, but i was so mad). i immediately said, you cant do that, but you can push her off you. push her to the ground. it just cannot be allowed.

that stuck with me for a long long time.

fast forward to two sons. my oldest had all the girls with crushes on him in elementary school. one particular girl would walk by him and pinch his ear. it was all for attention, not bullying, though that is just what it was. i had heard other stories. i talked to the principle, that this cannot be one sided. i talked about it in a PTA meeting, how it was not one sided. and i talked to the teachers and told them we could not teach our boys to take abuse and we could not teach our girls they were allowed. we needed to address it and not tell the boys to "man up". and i talked (and listened) to my sons about it, a lot.

i ran into the girl about that time. i told her to knock it off, that my son was not allowed to hit her, and her pinching ears was wrong, unacceptable.

we cannot allow our girls to believe there are no repercussions.

i am not for minimizing either experience. this is a very real issue i stand firmly with. i will always stand up for those that are abused.

i want it really really clear. it matters.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #32)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:07 AM

33. Thank you

That said it best

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:08 AM

34. All abuse is horrifying. All victims are just that - victims.

We should all be supporting victims. All of them.

Thanks for your post.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:29 AM

35. Thank you, Recursion..You make excellent points. n/t

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:37 AM

36. My heart goes to all abuse victims.

My mother was a crazy, unpleasant woman. She was violent with us kids, especially my twin brother. OMG how mean she was to him! He never stood a chance. Bullies at school could easily pick up on his low self esteem and targeted him. In our teens he climbed into a bottle and now, age 50, he's still in that bottle. He looks about 65 years old.

While I know you are referencing adult abuse but it's all over society, all ages, incomes, genders, you name it. None deserve it, all should be supported and helped when possible.



Julie

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Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 04:51 PM

82. my mother was a severe BPD.

No sexual abuse but the constant terror led to consistent abuse from peers, stress related chronic disease and several very major surgeries as a result, desperation for affection and a pattern of falling "in love" with extremely damaged people. I was the only child and had NO support from anyone. I endured everything quietly because to try and get any nurturing from her was dangerous. Even in the hospitals. Even when attacked by peers.

Even hard to find a therapist that understood PTSD. I'm 55 now, been surviving all my life under such emotional stress. It's a big deal.

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #82)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:18 PM

108. Oh my dear!

I am so glad you made it through!

Julie

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Response to JNelson6563 (Reply #108)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 11:04 AM

124. thank you Julie. :)

I practice Buddhism with the Soka Gakkai, chanting nam-myoho-renge-kyo and I use that practice to keep up my will to fight and keep going. Buddhist motto: Persevere! and change poison into medicine!

I've had many setbacks but I've continued to work hard and I'm light years beyond where I used to be.




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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:39 AM

37. You have my support

for sure! Thank you for posting this.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:39 AM

38. It's none of my business, but was your abuser male or female?

we might have more in common than you think.

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Response to librechik (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:45 AM

40. My abuser was in a position of authority, and was evil.

I'll leave it at that for now.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:07 AM

46. And that's all that matters, isn't it? n/t

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Response to moriah (Reply #46)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:12 AM

47. Amen (nt)

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Response to Recursion (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:24 AM

50. Of course, and as a fellow victim, I sympathize.

I'm only asking because there is an implication that you are transgendered, and I'm curious as to whether your abuse had anything to do with your identity. It's mainly females who are abused, and I wonder if your abuse increased as a transgender female due to the change or due to your femaleness. i suppose it's impossible to untangle.

My personal and professional lives were both shattered due to at least 3 male abusers. One of the incidents occurred due to gross discrimination against someone who had decided to make the change and become female. Because of my close association with her, I too was abused emotionally and in my career.

Sometimes it seems impossible to escape. But I just don't see a whole lot of females being the authoritarian abusers, or abusers much at all, unless that is all they know. I know it's just as evil to blame the male sex as it is to abuse the female sex (I suppose) but I'm old now and just can't help it. So many years wasted.

Good luck to you, Recursion.

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Response to librechik (Reply #50)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:30 AM

52. I am a cis-male

But I try to keep faith with trans-persons.

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Response to librechik (Reply #50)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:42 AM

112. I can assure you that there are psychopathic women,

as well, in this world.

Hugs to all.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #112)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 09:35 AM

123. I spoke to that.n/t

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:40 AM

39. In both my personal and professional life, I've had a lot to do with survivors--and perpetrators--

of both sexes. (Yes, there are some female sexual abusers, but not a high proportion of the total.)

Sexual abuse, as well as other forms of abuse--emotional, physical, neglectful--can have devastating effects on people.

I hope nothing I say is taken to diminish female survivors in any way, but I believe that the incidence and significance of male sexual abuse is vastly underestimated. It's really not OK for guys to talk about it, to admit it.

For well over a decade I provided the psych services for a "boot camp" style prison for young adults, mostly with drug & alcohol problems. I'm fairly good at creating an atmosphere of safety and acceptance in working with people, and fairly early on it became clear to me that almost all of the young guys being referred to me as having difficulties in the program had horrible histories of abuse, and that for many this included sexual abuse.

That prison had some good therapists, but they had been trained in the typical Corrections doctrine that if you allow offenders to discuss the bad parts of their history, you were "enabling their victimstance," i.e. permitting them to see themselves as victims and thereby dodge responsibility for their criminal activities. However, when I started getting results from treating the endemic PTSD, the therapists wanted to know what I was doing. I told them and showed them. With the permission of the patients, I allowed the therapists to sit in on parts of some of my sessions.

These therapists were and are decent, caring people with a commitment to helping people. They started taking continuing ed in trauma treatment, and started using it. Once their eyes were opened, they started getting the results too. Guys who had been failing in the program started succeeding.

The lead therapist commented to me several years later that he had come to believe that the majority of the inmates had had histories of sexual abuse. "Maybe 60%," he said.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:46 AM

41. Thank you Recursion

I don't know what thread led you to feel like you needed to write this today, but I see threads of which you are discussing far too often on this website. Your bravery and kindness is obvious in your post. Thank you for the reminder to all that those who have suffered abuse at the hands of others deserve respect and kindness and support from us all.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:50 AM

42. Good post!

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:00 AM

44. Thank you for the brave and important post. We good men and women SO need one another.

We are all people, and people shouldn't be hurt. Anything we can do to stop that, we should do.

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Response to nolabear (Reply #44)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:02 AM

45. Thank you nolabear

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:13 AM

48. I saw those threads...

I could not respond with the grace and civility you have shown. I tried to kick some of the threads regarding women's rights... But it seems like I do not have the gravitas.

There are a couple threads I have actively made a choice not to even look at. Just from the title I knew they were inflammatory. It really pains me to see women bullied and denied basic rights. I genuinely like women. I admire Cecile Richards and her mom. The recent posts highlighting Ann Richards were great. Wendy Davis is a new hero of mine. I really like the intelligence and strength of Rachel Maddow... I wish I could heap praise on my two Senators from California, and even though I disagree with some of their positions, I do respect what they have lived through and fought for in the past.

Abuse sucks no matter who suffers it. I do not want to see anyone hurt in such a way. And kudos to you for writing your truth. I appreciate the effort to utilize your experience to repudiate the minimization of the struggle for equality that women fight for daily.

I really admire women who use their voice to speak loudly for their rights. Strong and intelligent women are awesome.

Thank you for speaking up against what has happened in several threads here.



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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:37 AM

53. I am so sorry you experienced abuse

I am a female and I did too as did my twin brother. I have been able to move past it - my brother not so much. Thank you for this post.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:37 AM

54. Very few abuse shelters for men. Pointing this out isn't delegitimizing women's abuse.

Every. Single. Time. Someone does point it out, the argument is beset by a crew of posters arguing that a) it does exactly that and b) men's abuse doesn't matter because it's rare.

Thanks for the link to malesurvivor, I wish there were more resources like that in real life and not just on the internet.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:38 AM

55. I'm with you brother.

I "came out" on DU several months ago. Mine happened in the military.

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Response to MindPilot (Reply #55)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:39 AM

56. Brother, you're not remotely alone

An inexcusable amount of sexual abuse happens in the military, to both male and female enlisted personnel (never the officers..)

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Response to Recursion (Reply #56)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:20 AM

62. Thank you for this brave thread. I was an Army officer who was raped by a fellow

Officer. I was raped many times as a child, resulting in low self esteem, and became an attractive target to abusers because of that.

I am walking away from DU because I feel it has become a hostile environment for feminists.

I support all survivors of abuse 100%. I am sorry for what you went through.

You were so brave to post this. Thank you.

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Response to LiberalLoner (Reply #62)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:23 AM

64. So sorry for my dismissive "never the officers" language

Just some class warfare there; so sorry...

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Response to Recursion (Reply #64)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:29 AM

66. It's okay. No offense taken. :)

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Response to LiberalLoner (Reply #62)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:37 AM

67. Don't go...



It will get better. Much of this is can not be done by men alone. Men need strong women to stand up and say 'no'.

Do not let bullies silence your voice.

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Response to LiberalLoner (Reply #62)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 06:36 PM

88. don't leave DU, LiberalLoner

stay and fight - we need people like you

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:07 AM

58. As another male survivor I stand with you on what you say

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:21 AM

63. What else can I say, but

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:26 AM

65. Fair points, and much appreciated.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:15 PM

68. Seems to me a beating is a beating. Regardless of the gender of the victim.

Years ago, my husband was roughed up by an off-duty cop. He was driving a few miles over the speed limit on a new stretch of freeway on the outskirts of town - very little traffic on there. Pulled over by an off-duty cop in a NON-police car. Wasn't even an unmarked car! He didn't pull over because he didn't recognize the driver as ANY sort of cop. The lawyers took over on that one. And my guy had to go to abuse counseling - thank God that was available to him.

I have another longtime friend who's gay, and he got into a relationship with a partner who turned violent on him. He didn't get much help or sympathy. I have a feeling it was because he's gay - everybody just sniffed and scoffed and said it was a lovers' quarrel and pretty much dismissed him. He's never been the same since. And unlike with my husband, there were no services available to my friend - nobody cared. I'm pretty sure it was because he's gay and there wasn't much sympathy or concern. It pissed me off!

A beating is a beating. By any other name. It's still a BEATING. It's abuse. It's a violent act. It is a criminal act. It's assault. It's a sin. There is no excuse. And it doesn't make any difference if the victim is male or female or gay or straight. It's still a BEATING.

I'm so sorry you went through that, Recursion. NOBODY should.

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Response to calimary (Reply #68)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:05 PM

103. Unfortunately, gay men are still under a lot of pressure to deny abuse--

--because of the fear of "letting down the side" and handing verbal weapons to homophobes.

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Response to eridani (Reply #103)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:08 PM

104. i could so see that though i had not thuoght of that. thanks for the insight. makes sense. nt

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:18 PM

69. Standing with you, Recursion!

Thanks from a fellow surviver!
Peace

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:19 PM

70. I am sorry Recursion. I wish I had something better to say. nt

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:52 PM

72. I also.

And it should never be a "contest" or something to divide us. Great post!

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 01:12 PM

73. Three male survivors have opened up to me

One was sexually abused as a child by his mother. The other two were abused by domestic partners (one male, one female, if anyone's interested). The wounds were deep and barely scabbed over.

I think the main problem male survivors face is that they're so greatly outnumbered by female survivors that they tend to get lost in a lot of discussions. Yes, you guys are out there and yes, the abuse leaves men just as shattered as it does women.

Men also suffer disproportionately because "why didn't you leave?" brings up the fact that since men are better paid and physically stronger, they're somehow more responsible for all the abuse that happened after the first incident. That ignores the bonds they have to the children who would go to the abuser in a divorce and the power of the honeymoon phase in the cycle of abuse to suck them back into a sick relationship.

The betrayal of trust and the manipulation within the relationship are the same, however. It's really too bad that some people bring up the fact that about 10% of abuse survivors are men to somehow diminish the abuse that the 90% of survivors who are women endure.

Women who leave abusers face poverty. Men who leave face loneliness and scorn. Both these things should be a source of deep shame in this culture.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 01:17 PM

74. K&R

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 02:33 PM

75. K&R

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 03:11 PM

76. Knowing the True Meaning of Pain

In life we search for answers and True meanings of certain things. Unfortunately some of us have found the answer and the true meaning of Pain.
It is not some little pin prick in your finger, or even smashing your hand to pieces with a hammer. That is just hurt. The true meaning of pain is that vile and despicable act that echos in your soul and mind. Reverberating in your every fiber for the rest of your life. It is never forgotten, just dealt with when it bounces off on side of you and comes back to the surface.

I stand with you in support and admiration. May you find your peace to dampen your echo.
We must stand together to stamp this out.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 04:29 PM

78. Wonderful and Eloquent post! Thank you Recursion

the so-called men who minimize abuse against women by the method you describe don't deserve to be members of this community, imho.

I'm glad you posted this, because if a woman were to have said it, the usual suspects would try to hijack the conversation AND NOT GET BANNED! No matter how many alerts.


Thank you for saying this so articulately. Thank you!!


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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 04:35 PM

80. Thanks for this.

It's great to see it at the top of the greatest! I hope that me posting the video on the Bro Code was seen as a positive thing and a support to the perspective you offer here.


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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 04:41 PM

81. K&R

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 04:53 PM

83. Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

Thank you, also for the hard-won wisdom you bring to a discussion.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 05:07 PM

84. Another one here

I stand with you, my brother. Thanks for posting this.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)


Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 06:20 PM

86. Recursion...



Code of Silence: hard as hell to break, and there sure aren't any awards for breaking it -- except your own self-respect in just perhaps preventing it from happening to someone else.

Been there, done that.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 06:24 PM

87. I have been floored by the number of men I've known that have acknowledged being molested

or abused as children. And it has manifested itself in so many, mainly destructive ways even among the smartest and most loving and caring of them.

And yet, I read a story just from 2 days ago about the number of pedophiles scooped up by the avatar of a young, Filipina girl deliberately created to draw them in. Over 1000 (yes, a THOUSAND) men were identified offering money to pay for this undeniably underaged child to perform sex acts and their info sent to police. The men were overwhelmingly from Western countries, overwhelmingly from the US. There is a fucking problem and people need to stop pretending that there isn't.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 06:49 PM

89. Well said - thank you for speaking for me

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 06:56 PM

90. I'm so glad you posted this.

It can't be easy, it's not easy, and I admire your courage.

This is all I'm comfortable saying about it- you speak for many of us.



K/R

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 07:05 PM

91. "I don't bring this up much, because it's none of your fucking business."

Um....okay.

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Response to seabeyond (Reply #92)


Response to Android3.14 (Reply #97)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 07:44 PM

99. kinder? what, 186 rec in a heartfelt OP. and you say what in response? kinder. uh hu

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 07:12 PM

93. A rare enlightening thread

Thank you for sharing, and hugs to you.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 07:16 PM

94. I'm very sorry that that happened to you. Thank you for witnessing for truth.

Surviving abuse is not a contest against other survivors. I have a feeling that all survivors know that.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 07:36 PM

96. You absolutely are my ally

in every way (maybe not everything on guns). Men discussing abuse in no way diminishes women's experiences, unless that is the person's intent. I am very sorry you had that awful experience. You are a fantastic person and a great ally of women. Thanks for your thoughtful post.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 07:44 PM

98. I too am a male surviver

 

of a physically and emotionally abusive relationship. Thank the gods for my wife to understand this and help me through it.
curse those who deny that this can happen, and deny help to us who suffer. no matter what the sex of the abused or abuser.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:34 PM

100. Every time I think our species has regressed with regards to

relationship violence, some sensitive, erudite and courageous individual posts something that gives me hope -- as you've done herein.

I've been an advocate for survivors of relationship violence for better than thirty-five years. I am a survivor. I have enormous respect for every survivor who finds the courage to share their experiences so that they might help others. I have tremendous compassion for our fellow survivors who continue to suffer in silence and isolation.

Thank you for this post. You've given me hope.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:39 PM

101. Not a surviver of sexual abuse but

definitely a survivor of abuse. Have not come out the other side well. Am in group therapy for manic/depression, not imo my worst issue but grateful for that therapy all the same. Maybe DU could benefit from a PTSD forum, I know I could. Thank you for the enlightenment and thank you for the place to add my little bit.

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Response to chknltl (Reply #101)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:21 AM

113. Maybe DU could benefit from a PTSD forum

Sounds like a good idea to me, chknltl

Talking and listening (and self-discipline, work...) is healing.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 08:51 PM

102. For the sake of the stupid people,

When a survivor says their abuse is none of your fucking business, it means, don't even try any bullshit judgmental, self help, cultural horseshit, religious platitude crapola. Just shut up and listen.

Simple.

Good post.

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Response to MichiganVote (Reply #102)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:10 PM

106. I agree, excellent post!

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 09:16 PM

105. Yeah

Thanks for making this post.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:12 PM

107. been there done that. ...

And still have the scar on my right arm from her teeth. Ive had a rag full of cat urine swung at my face, numerous items thrown at me (some making contact) the list goes on and on. Divorcing that one was the best decision in my life. The best part was when she moved out of the neighborhood, the street threw a party! No joke! People came out of the woodwork to congradulate me! Im now married to my highschool sweetheart and life couldnt be better!

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:42 PM

109. Thank you

Just..thank you

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 12:00 AM

110. beautiful post. glad i did not miss this.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 01:00 AM

111. Me too, but I'm not joining an on-line support group.

It's just not for me. And if it were, I would not join a gender-specific one.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:29 AM

114. I was raped. So was my mother and one brother.

My rape doesn't seem to count for some because I was an adult and both of us were gay. My mother's rape resulted in me. As much as some would like to believe there isn't a hierarchy in regards to who the victim, there is.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #114)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:44 AM

115. I'm sorry that happened to you

How truly awful. It also must have been very difficult learning that you were conceived from rape. Recursion's point is that there is no such hierarchy, and while men and women may face particular challenges in healing, we are not enemies. I believe this thread demonstrates that is how the overwhelming majority of DU survivors feel.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #115)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:55 AM

117. I don't believe survivors are enemies either.

But, I do believe, nay, I know, there is a hierarchy, especially in how we are treated. Gays and lesbians tend to be on the bottom.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #117)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 03:04 AM

120. Not to me

And my guess is not to most people in this thread. I have argued for decades that female abusers should be treated exactly as male abusers are. I've had straight male friends laugh at that suggestion and insist a junior high boy violated by his teacher was "lucky." Studies show male victims abused by women are every bit as traumatized as boys and girls abused by men. Nor can I imagine any scenario where adult homosexual rape could possibly be less traumatic than heterosexual rape. I have no doubt that homophobia and bigotry more generally is as present in abuse support groups as anywhere else in society. I think you, Recursion and others are very brave to talk about your experiences here. I lack your courage.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #114)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:46 AM

116. There are a few demographics where assumptions are made

The Gay community being a big one. If sexual violence occurs between two gay women, and one is more "butch" in appearance, police have literally been known to have arrested the wrong person.

The undocumented population is another area without a voice, here,-mostly women, but where would an undocumented male turn to for help? What if he was Gay? There's very little support for any of them.

I know of a horrific story where a deaf woman-- who couldn't speak- was arrested because the police didn't bother to get an interpreter and find out she was a victim.

There are far too many of the powerless and the voiceless. We need to reach out to all.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #116)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:57 AM

118. You made me cry.

Thank you.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #118)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 05:37 AM

122. ..

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:59 AM

119. My father was abused by his spouse...to death.

She broke his shoulder and left him sitting in his urine all night.

He never recovered and died 6 months later.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 04:36 AM

121. Much support to you, brother

You are very brave and this was an excellent post and an excellent thread. I think you've helped people today.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 11:15 AM

125. You're an awesome man.

I'll leave it at that other than to say the recs and responses in this thread (with a few expected exceptions) validate my opinion of you.

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Response to Recursion (Original post)

Thu Nov 7, 2013, 02:29 PM

126. on a related note, we men who have had mental health issues are in the same boat

Of course, abuse results in mental health issues. The old "strong but silent" edict represses men and forces us to withdraw, commit suicide, act out violently in some cases, and just plain suffer overall. It is much more acceptable for women to reach out for help and to speak about their affliction.

One day I hope people will be seen as people FIRST and gender will be seen later on. Both men and women suffer from abuse and mental health issues, and we need to support one another.

Once again, very awesome thread, Recursion.

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