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Mon Nov 4, 2013, 06:10 PM

biphobia

America still can't accept Lady Gaga's bisexuality. Or anyone else's.
http://www.salon.com/2013/11/04/america_still_cant_accept_lady_gagas_bisexuality_or_anybody_elses/

61 replies, 3142 views

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Arrow 61 replies Author Time Post
Reply biphobia (Original post)
arely staircase Nov 2013 OP
Prophet 451 Nov 2013 #1
DavidDvorkin Nov 2013 #2
arely staircase Nov 2013 #3
eridani Nov 2013 #57
arely staircase Nov 2013 #5
arely staircase Nov 2013 #7
BlueStreak Nov 2013 #28
Prophet 451 Nov 2013 #43
LittleBlue Nov 2013 #40
WinkyDink Nov 2013 #4
arely staircase Nov 2013 #6
arely staircase Nov 2013 #8
scheming daemons Nov 2013 #61
NuclearDem Nov 2013 #9
arely staircase Nov 2013 #10
TeeYiYi Nov 2013 #32
LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #11
arely staircase Nov 2013 #12
adirondacker Nov 2013 #14
Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #13
Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #15
Prophet 451 Nov 2013 #19
Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #21
Prophet 451 Nov 2013 #23
Aerows Nov 2013 #34
Aerows Nov 2013 #16
Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #17
Aerows Nov 2013 #24
Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #29
Prophet 451 Nov 2013 #20
Aerows Nov 2013 #25
Prophet 451 Nov 2013 #26
Aerows Nov 2013 #27
pinboy3niner Nov 2013 #42
Aerows Nov 2013 #44
pinboy3niner Nov 2013 #52
Aerows Nov 2013 #55
Aerows Nov 2013 #60
Aerows Nov 2013 #51
pinboy3niner Nov 2013 #53
Aerows Nov 2013 #56
pinboy3niner Nov 2013 #58
liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #18
Luminous Animal Nov 2013 #22
Behind the Aegis Nov 2013 #30
liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #33
Behind the Aegis Nov 2013 #36
Aerows Nov 2013 #39
Aerows Nov 2013 #37
Behind the Aegis Nov 2013 #38
Aerows Nov 2013 #41
liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #45
Aerows Nov 2013 #46
liberal_at_heart Nov 2013 #47
Aerows Nov 2013 #48
DevonRex Nov 2013 #31
Aerows Nov 2013 #35
Aerows Nov 2013 #49
laundry_queen Nov 2013 #50
DonCoquixote Nov 2013 #54
justiceischeap Nov 2013 #59

Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 06:30 PM

1. Yeah

The US (and my own UK) is weird about bisexuality. Increasingly, people are accepting of you being gay but bisexuality freaks people out. When I decided to be open to my father's family about my sexuality, one of the things he said was that my sexual tastes might settle down in time (I was 27 at the time). Gotta say, it also doesn't help when we have some publically gay people denying that bisexuality exists (I think it was Dan Savage) or when historic figures who were bisexual (such as Oscar Wilde, Alexander teh Great or most of teh Roman Emperorors) are retroactively declared to be gay.

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Response to Prophet 451 (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 06:54 PM

2. I think Savage backed off a bit on that

After a lot of negative responses.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #2)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 09:20 PM

3. praise the Lord

Being the world's last wierdos and all.

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Response to DavidDvorkin (Reply #2)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 02:03 AM

57. He's got a chapter on that in his new book American Savage


http://www.us.penguingroup.com/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9780525954101,00.html

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/bisexuals/Content?oid=8743322

Here's one thing that is: Many adult gays and lesbians identified as bi for a few shining moments during our adolescences and coming-out processes. (We wanted to let our friends down easy; we didn't want our families to think we'd gone over the dark side entirely.) This can lead adult gays and lesbians—myself included—to doubt the professed sexual identities of bisexual teenagers.

When I meet a bisexual teenage boy, for instance, I sometimes think to myself, "Yeah, I was too at your age." That doesn't mean the kid standing in front of me couldn't possibly be bisexual (I wasn't, he might be!), or that I don't believe bisexuality exists (bisexuals exist, and most of them seem to have my e-mail address), only that my life experience makes it difficult for me to accept a bisexual teenage boy's professed sexual identity at face value. (And to those who insist that my inability to accept someone's professed sexual identity without question makes me a bigot: Ted Haggard, George Rekers, and Larry Craig all identify as straight. You believe them? Or are you a bigot?)

I don't berate bi-identified teenage boys, I don't tell them they're not really bi, and I don't cruise around bi neighborhoods looking for young bi guys to beat up. But I do know that a bi-identified 36-year-old is likelier to be bisexual than a bi-identified 16-year-old, and I resent being asked to pretend not to know it.

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Response to Prophet 451 (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 09:22 PM

5. plus one nt

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Response to Prophet 451 (Reply #1)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 09:24 PM

7. the B in LGBT has often been the stepchild. nt

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #7)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:32 AM

28. I always thought it was the T that got no respect

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Response to BlueStreak (Reply #28)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:05 AM

43. I dunno

Trans people get more media attention. Whether they get more acceptance because of that, I don't know. I'm bisexual so I know about teh problems bisexuals face first-hand but I'm not trans so there's a limit to how much I can know about their problems.

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Response to Prophet 451 (Reply #1)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:58 AM

40. Great post

I've always admired bisexuals for not being limited to preferring one sex.

And like you said, many of the greatest historical figures were bisexual. Frederick the Great of Prussia is another one. Actually, if you look at the percentage of bisexuals compared to the population, they are ridiculously overrepresented among great people.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 09:21 PM

4. I can't get why it's a topic of discussion. As in, WTH cares one way or another, besides her?

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #4)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 09:22 PM

6. I care nt

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 09:36 PM

8. replying to my own thread here

Doesnt the lack of interest highlight the problem?

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Response to arely staircase (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:34 PM

61. Lack of interest because nobody cares about her sexuality

That's the world we want.... Where nobody gives a damn who you sleep with.

It is none of our business.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 09:44 PM

9. I don't know why bisexuality doesn't get talked about as much as the L, G, and T aspects.

Anyone in the LGBT community know why? Or am I just not reading the right sources?

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #9)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 09:48 PM

10. you are reading it right. nt

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #9)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:43 AM

32. Because some LGTs are a little dubious about the B...

...and on another note, some LGBs want to throw Ts under the bus.

What family is perfect?

You asked, and no, I'm not referring to myself.

Hope that helps.

TYY

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 09:58 PM

11. "fence-sitting"

"She just sleeps with women to get men's attention"
"He's just afraid to come out all the way"

A friend of mine said recently that she caught more shit for coming out as bi than she did when she came out as lesbian years ago.
Another complains that she doesn't feel accepted by the local LGBT community because she won't pick a side and stick with it.

You'd think we would have learned to be more tolerant by now. It's shameful.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #11)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 10:08 PM

12. then make that a man's problem

But it cool.

Sing your life!

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #11)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 10:15 PM

14. Excellent explanation. It seems the US has lost it's way when it comes to curiosity and tolerance

and has embraced the know it all attitude.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 10:09 PM

13. Yep. From both the hetero and gay community.

Though, I have to say, San Franciso has improved quote a bit over the past 25 years I have lived here.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 10:19 PM

15. One thing that annoys me personally...

I am in a long time monogamous relationship with my husband but, invariably one of the 1st questions that someone asks me when I identify as bi is, "don't you miss sex with a woman?"

Um nope. And I don't miss sex with other men either.

There is this weird assumption that if you are bi, you just want to fuck anyone that moves.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #15)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 11:11 PM

19. I get that one too

I'm in a long-term relationship with a woman and I'm occasionally asked if I miss sex with men. Not only do I echo what you said, I also think these people really don't understand what you can do with sex toys these days...

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Response to Prophet 451 (Reply #19)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 11:20 PM

21. Not only that but the assumption is that what

You do in bed is more important than the person.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #21)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 11:25 PM

23. Yep

Ever seen those fundies who just won't stop talking about the intricacies of gay sex? Same thing. Our society is so fixated on sex and the mechanics of sex that the idea of someone who actually doesn't care about the mechanics or the gender blows people's minds. I used to have a buddy who would judge women by whether their vagina was ugly, the idea that someone not only doesn't care about that but doesn't even care whether their partner has a penis or vagina is just completely alien to them.

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #21)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:46 AM

34. See, that is the oddest part of all

with regards to love and sexuality.

Loving someone deeply means that you want them in your life for as long as you can have them. They are a dessert so precious, that you want to devour them every second of the day, and longer if you can have it.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 10:24 PM

16. Okay, I admit it

as a lesbian, I have biphobia. The reason I have it is because way in the past I loved a woman deeply, and she ended up choosing a man. Now I know I should be a better person and think "She should love who she loves, and marry him, even if he is a piece of shit that will amount to nothing, gave you a son, walked away with the groovy gauges in his ears and never did pay a cent once he walked away", but I guess I still have issues with that.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 10:54 PM

17. And she could have chosen another woman and ended up in a similar situation.

And you would base being prejudice against people in the bi community based on a personal relationship with one person?

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Response to Luminous Animal (Reply #17)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:22 AM

24. I had a bad moment

I am far from perfect.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #24)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:32 AM

29. Aren't we all :) Take care.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #16)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 11:19 PM

20. No, you don't have to be happy for her

I mean, it would be nice if you were but being bitter is an entirely understandable and entirely human reaction. Most of us aren't going to judge you for that.

But we're not her. While I sympathize with your hurt because splitting up with someone is the worst, we're not her. Her flaws don't reflect on us. You feel hurt because she betrayed you and, Lord knows, I can understand that, but you're blaming the wrong thing. She could have left you for a guy or another woman or an especially attractive goat, you'd still be feeling hurt and betrayed and that's normal (and if you want to discuss that privately, feel free to message me). All we're asking is to not judge us by her.

I forget who it was but someone once described bisexuality as the opportunity to learn that both genders are capable of being duplicitous assholes.

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Response to Prophet 451 (Reply #20)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:25 AM

25. I apologize

and didn't mean to characterize all bisexuals in that way. I had a memory that grabbed hold of me and did not let me go, if you will.

And you are right, we are all capable of being assholes. As I have clearly illustrated

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Response to Aerows (Reply #25)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:26 AM

26. It's ok, I understand

We are all the sum of our experiences.

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Response to Prophet 451 (Reply #26)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:30 AM

27. I agree

and apologize for being an idiot in a community I am in.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #27)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:04 AM

42. As long as you keep the puns coming...

...you're okay in my book.

I don't think you're biphobic.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #42)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:06 AM

44. I love you, PB39 er

Last edited Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:39 AM - Edit history (1)

Your entire name looks like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, what is wrong with that? edit: and I mean a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for real, god knows I could get into trouble for not knowing what the latest allusions are. I just meant peanut butter and jelly. Shit, I'm hungry.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #44)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:48 AM

52. I love you too, Aerows

For me, PB&J sandwiches were always good to have while reading a book. After I lost my mom, I'd cut them the way she did when I was a kid. Sort of my way of remembering and feeling close to her, I think.

My username comes from a different connection--it was my last radio callsign in Vietnam. Mom figured there, too, in the letters and packages she sent, with things like chocolate chip cookies and Swiss Miss cocoa--all packed in popcorn, since we didn't have styrofoam peanuts then.

That Swiss Miss cocoa from home was a godsend on the night I turned 21 in Vietnam. We'd been sent out to the A Shau Valley to secure an artillery battery that had been flown there for a quick fire mission, but we got socked in by fog and couldn't be extracted for three days.

Once the artillery fired, everybody in the valley knew exactly where we were, and we spent the next days and nights expecting to be overrun. I was convinced I was going to die on my 21st birthday.

That night, I pulled out the Swiss Miss packages mom had sent me. We'd run out of water and I wasn't about to send a detail down on a suicidal mission to get more, so I used the water from the bomb craters everybody had been pissing in since we got there. I boiled it a little longer than usual.

We somehow didn't get hit, and we enjoyed the best cocoa--and the best birthday--I ever had in my life. Thanks to mom.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #52)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:59 AM

55. MMM Swiss Miss cocoa

and a peanut butter sandwich. The best things in life don't cost too much, and you still here to post and make puns with, priceless

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:28 PM

60. Seriously, that was both poignant

and beautiful. I am so glad you survived Vietnam so that you could trade puns with all of us. Cocoa in a dark place is a great thing, and heaven bless your mother for providing you with a comfort. In dire circumstances, it is the little things that get you through one minute at a time.

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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #42)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:44 AM

51. I'm having one of those days

I swear. I dropped a half gallon of milk in the front yard because the stupid bag broke and it hit the sharp edge of a brick and blew *everywhere*, then the stupid toaster caught on fire. Good grief.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #51)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:56 AM

53. No biphobia goes unpunished




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Response to pinboy3niner (Reply #53)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 02:01 AM

56. Well that was punny

no really. This is my enjoying you laughing at me face.



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Response to Aerows (Reply #56)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 02:20 AM

58. Hey, I broke an extra-large bottle of wine on my doormat once

I cried.


I am not unsympathetic.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 11:05 PM

18. my daughter is bisexual. You are right. Most people can't accept bisexuals or transgenders either.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Mon Nov 4, 2013, 11:22 PM

22. Thank you arely for posting this.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:36 AM

30. "It's just trendy." That's what I often her in regards to this issue.

Unfortunately, the term bisexuality focuses on "sex" and given our (the United States) very negative attitudes toward sex, it is not helpful. To explain further, it is easy to see how the GAY community focuses more on our community/culture by using the word "gay (fe/male homosexual)" or "lesbian (female homosexual)." Bisexuals don't have another name to use, so it conjures up "sex," in much the same way "homosexual" used to do, and still does when used by, usually, right-wingers. Hell, even "heterosexuals" got a name change, "straight." So, for bisexual people, it comes back to a focus on sex. This exists in the gay and lesbian culture, as well, sadly. IMO, I would say that biphobia is probably as rampant in the GL community as it in the non-GL community. I also think many gay men and many lesbians are responsible for some of the "bad press" that bisexuals get, in that many of us used "bisexuality" as a stepping stone to our real sexual orientation, and thereby creating a false sense that bisexuality is really "nothing more than a phase."

There is also the problem with people calling/declaring themselves "bisexual," when in reality, they aren't. There are some who really do use this sexual orientation as a "trend," and that is sad. Of course, bisexuality is often forgotten when sex scandals occur. One has to be either "G/L" or "straight." So many people seem to forget, bisexuality is a legitimate sexual orientation. It's a product of dualistic thinking. The other issue, of course, is that just because someone has a same/other sex encounter, they aren't "magically" transformed into the 'other' nor are the necessarily bisexual.

Bisexuals get a really bad rap from all sides of the sexual spectrum*, and that is really sad and unproductive. It comes from a society that devalues sexuality, sexual expression, and knowledge.


*Though I use the word "spectrum," which implies a line, I really think of sexuality more of as a circle. I just couldn't think of an appropriate word other than 'spectrum' to relay what I was thinking.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #30)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:45 AM

33. I seriously doubt there are a lot of people just saying they are bi so they can be popular.

There may be some who are questioning their sexuality and who out of curiosity experiment one time and then decide they are not bi, but people who are LGBT usually spend years thinking of these things internally before they ever come out to anyone they know. By then they usually know for sure who they are.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #33)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:50 AM

36. I don't recal saying "a lot of people," but rather "some."

This is from the studies I have read and my own experiences in college. Of course, these things can change. But, yes, there are some who claim to be bi (or gay/lesbian) as part of being "trendy" and "hip." How common is it? I don't really know, but I have seen it. I have also seen gay and lesbians struggle with their sexual orientation only to realize they aren't homosexual, but bisexual. Sex and sexuality is still somewhat taboo in our culture, despite the overt sexualization we see everywhere. Actual discussions about the implications and realities of sex and sexual orientation still seem to have that "yuck" factor with many people.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #36)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:56 AM

39. That said

I think you are getting unfairly taken to task for this opinion.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #30)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:53 AM

37. When the trendy

bs comes up, either with regards to bi or homosexuality I want to either puke or cry. It isn't a trend. It isn't a "way of life", and it certainly isn't "a phase".

I LOVE. Who I LOVE isn't a phase, a trend or a "lifestyle". It's my lover, and I will accept her as nothing less.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #37)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:55 AM

38. The "trendy" label usually gets hurled at bisexuals, more than G/L folks, though it does happen.

Too many don't, to this day, realize bisexuality (and asexuality) are legitimate sexual orientations, just as being homosexual or heterosexual are. I don't hear the actual word "trend" directed toward us often, but "lifestyle," that one I hear all too often, even here, and it flies all over me!

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #38)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:59 AM

41. I agree

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Response to Aerows (Reply #41)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:08 AM

45. Are you referring to what I wrote? I simply disagree with one part of what Behind the

Aegis wrote. Am I not allowed to disagree? Is my opinion not welcome? I was simply defending my daughter and others because I think bringing up the possibility that a few people use it as popularity gives those who do discriminate against bi's the excuse to say "See they are just using it as a way to be popular. They're not really bi." I am not taking Behind the Aegis to task. I am not arguing. I am not badgering. I am not harassing. I said one little comment. I simply disagreed. I am allowed to do that.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #45)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:12 AM

46. Lord, this topic really is a minefield

Peace, lah. Nobody is accusing anyone, and of course we can all disagree.

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Response to Aerows (Reply #46)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:15 AM

47. Sorry if I got defensive. It's just when you brought it up in multiple posts I got a little upset.

Peace to you and to all of our wonderful and beautiful LGBT's.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #47)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:21 AM

48. Hell I got defensive up thread myself

this really is a minefield of a topic. Peace to you, my friend

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:41 AM

31. I didn't know she's bisexual. I'm fine with who she is.

I hope the people who matter to her are fine with who she is.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 12:49 AM

35. Loving a person

Loving someone deeply means that you want them in your life for as long as you can have them. They are a dessert so precious, that you want to devour them every second of the day, and longer if you can have it.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:22 AM

49. This is one of those threads

that needs a big old

(and so do I)

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:37 AM

50. Yep, it exists.

a long time ago I had a friend who was certain she was a lesbian and she was very active in the LGBT community. Then she unexpectedly (to her) fell in love with and married a man. Every single one of her old friends abandoned her. She was really hurt over it. They pretty much insinuated she was a fake and a fraud.

My daughter identifies as pansexual and/or bi. So far in her age group and in her LGBT group at school there hasn't been the same rejection as she went from a relationship with a girl to a giant crush on a guy. I hope maybe the younger generation is more accepting.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 01:58 AM

54. what does the damage

Is that some celebs are presented as Bi, but then go to other sex partners. This is seen as some sort of marketing angle, when in fact it is anything BUT. Take people like Lindsay Lohan, or gaga, or madonna, or even Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera. All of these have sent out BI waves, but then along comes themarketers to say they are "just curious." Granted, I think all of the above are probably Bisexual, but the Hollywood handlers they have keep sniffing the wind.

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Response to arely staircase (Original post)

Tue Nov 5, 2013, 07:28 AM

59. As a lesbian my issue with bisexuality is presentation

Let's face it, the majority of what American's learn is from TV. For example, Anna Paquin comes out as bisexual and then a hot minute later, marries her male co-star. Lady Gaga comes out as bisexual and dates a string of men. Madonna comes out as bisexual, dates a ton of men. This is where the perception that some are doing it for publicity comes from. I also think a part of the issue is a matter of "passing." That some LGBT people have issues with bisexuals because you can have that "normal" life we can't--in a sense, you can make that choice and it appears, many do.

Do I have biphobia? Probably, but I don't tend to think about it much because I'm full of phobias that I try and ignore or get rid of. However, the last two women I've dated were bisexual (I use were because one now claims she's straight--cause God intervened--and is married to a fundie preacher) and both women dated men after dating me--I hope one of them is happy.

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