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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPsychologists Propose Horrifying Solution to PTSD in Drone Operators
Drone operators often kill their targets from a continent away, but studies suggest that even thousands of miles of distance cannot mitigate war's devastating psychological effects. But just wait until you hear how researchers propose preventing PTSD, alcohol abuse and thoughts of suicide in drone operators.
The latest issue of GQ features a stunning read, written by Michael Powers, about former Air Force drone sensor operator Brandon Bryant and his military service. One of the first pilots to speak out about his experience with the drone program, Bryant paints a frightening portrait of death-dealing from a distance, and the psychological trauma wrought by his nearly six-years of service as a drone operator.
It's a captivating read one definitely worth reading in its entirety but we were particularly struck by the section exploring Bryant's PTSD diagnosis, which he received just a few months after his heavy conscience led him to leave the Air Force:
***CUT***
These effects [PTSD, alcohol abuse, suicidal ideation] appeared to spike at the exact time of Bryant's deployment, during the surge in Iraq. (Chillingly, to mitigate these effects, researchers have proposed creating a Siri-like user interface, a virtual copilot that anthropomorphizes the drone and lets crews shunt off the blame for whatever happens. Siri, have those people killed.)
I think that putting Siri in charge of all that death and destruction is wrong headed an, ultimately, will fail. The article reveals evidence that it isn't necessary to be there in the middle of it when the shit comes down. People sitting at a computer terminal in Nevada receive a "moral injury" when placed in these situation. Telling Siri to blow up those people will extract the same toll as operating the drone, guiding the missile, or putting a bullet through he head of another person. War is ugly, but it is part of what we are. Even our nearest relatives, Bonobos and other great apes, fight wars. When a war is necessary, putting these layers of insulation between the soldier and the act will just make unnecessary wars more likely.
If we don't perceive a high cost to an endeavor, we don't think about it quite so much.
If we must fight, then everybody should fight. Every citizen should pay the cost.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)If it were a "just cause," there'd be no shame or guilt.
As these are, at essence, wars for profit, there is big guilt. Why Bush and Cheney aren't hospitalized in an institution for the criminally insane shows just how far the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave has descended.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)People who must kill out of pure self defense, or by accident, often suffer from PTSD.
Very few soldiers approach killing and fighting with the idea that they're doing it for McDonald Douglass and the old bottom line, or even for the nation. That patriotic crap is good to maintain order and discipline, and to gin up support for a war, but it slips away in the field. They are put in a situation where they must fight and kill for themselves and their friends. It doesn't matter whether it is a misty rice paddy in Vietnam or a smoke filled room in Fallujah. The big picture type stuff of "just war" or "just cause" has nothing to do with it.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Perhaps I should have included all that you and the others below make clear. Of course, as I've noted previously on DU, that's why the military puts the recruits through dehumanization routines in basic training to make it possible to overcome the humanity in our hearts.
What I want to make clear: When the country is in danger, we can defend it in good conscience. When it's a war for Halliburton and the rest of Corporate America to make a buck, it makes it very difficult to do.
madokie
(51,076 posts)Went through the dehumanization upon entering and through debriefing upon leaving. Neither actually worked though, well if they did they didn't negate all the negative associated with war.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)Not that the killings are justified, but that the perception of a moral high ground inoculates you against PTSD. The field even recognizes "secondary PTSD," which happens to people treating PTSD cases and thereby traumatized just being exposed to the stories of their patients.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)And the Pacific with PTSD. It was called something else back then. Killing another human being scars the normal individual for life, regardless of the cause of the war
sarisataka
(18,600 posts)have a natural aversion to killing fellow humans. Even in war most combat soldiers will not fire or will do so intentionally ineffectively so as to avoid killing.
PTSD can occur in anyone, regardless of the justification.
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)That is why green troops are ineffective if kept in a unit and why it is better to use new troops to fill out and bring battle-tested units back up to full strength.
After the first battle, having seen the wounding and killing of their fellow soldiers, the green troops become more effective.
Xithras
(16,191 posts)As one of only a few people on DU who has shot another human being, I can state this unequivocally: It doesn't matter how evil the other guy is, or how much the other guy had his fate coming or "deserved it"...taking the life of another person is a traumatic experience that leaves deep psychological scars.
Nearly 20 years ago I shot a man who was in the middle of committing a violent rape (I've posted about it on DU a few times over the years, so a search will give you the gory details if you want them). He certainly deserved what he received, and I probably saved the woman from even greater physical harm (he had a knife shoved into her neck), but that didn't stop me from puking my guts out after the shooting, it took days for my hands to stop shaking, and several years to stop having weird dreams about it (mostly I kept "hearing" the gurgling noise his body made as his lung sucked air through the bullet hole).
I was traumatized, and I pulled the trigger only once, against a guy who unquestionably "deserved it", and to save a victim who unquestionably did not. Heck, my victim didn't even die...a nearby ER guaranteed that he lived to face a trial and a long prison sentence. I can't imagine the trauma experienced by those who have to kill repeatedly, or even worse, experienced by those who have pulled the trigger only to learn later that they unintentionally took out a wedding, or a bunch of kids playing in an orchard.
Human beings aren't meant to kill each other. There are times when we must do so anyway, but it's never easy, and it's never without shame or guilt...no matter what Hollywood, John Wayne, the chickenhawks, or the Republicans would like you to think.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Only psychopaths do not react to that.
Why they are well, psycopaths
Dash87
(3,220 posts)Even soldiers in heavy propaganda places like North Korea get PTSD. People in general, minus sociopaths, feel guilty after killing another human despite how much danger they were in or why they did it.
Victor_c3
(3,557 posts)I was an Infantry Platoon Leader in Iraq from Feb 2004-Mar 2005. Guilt and the fact that much of what I saw, did, and/or allowed to happen was for a completely unjustified and "fruitless" war is a huge part of my issues.
I don't think it is the whole root of my issues, but the war not being justified and being for nothing is a huge part of it. At least I could sleep easier at night knowing the stuff that happened in Iraq was for a good cause and my conscious would be a lot easier.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)''Money trumps peace." -- George W Bush on Feb. 14, 2007, uttered at a press conference in which not a single of the callow, cowed press corpse saw fit to ask a follow-up.
I remember Cindy Sheehan tried to bring it to our nation's attention.
There is a difference between defending one's country and fighting in a war for profit. Thank you, Lieutenant, for being brave in both counts.
polichick
(37,152 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)any number of horrifiying ways. Somehow we should expect to see ourselves as superhuman and less base than all other peoples of the earth? How many times do we wring our hand and cry to the heavens over some other nation's genocide or torture or massacre or just plain old sociopathic behavior? Ours is no better or worse. Humankind swims in cesspools of its own making regardless of the smokescreen of tribal affiliations.
polichick
(37,152 posts)and saying let's be more like them.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)than the rest of the human species. Not one whit, and we are fooling ourselves if we look at the trappings of modern civilization and try to claim that we are. We only have to look around our nation at the type and scope of domestic crime to see that.
polichick
(37,152 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)It's an observation and a valid one at that. There's a whole lot of ugly in the human animal. I'm speaking of something much more fundamental than any political shine can hide for long.
polichick
(37,152 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)I made an observation about the nature of the beast.
polichick
(37,152 posts)Skidmore
(37,364 posts)I must apologize a bit because I am in an unusually crabby mood today but the notion that somehow we (as in the US of A) is somehow above the rest of humanity always grates me a bit. What expectations should we set that should not include the rest of mankind as well? We are not more superlative than any other peoples. That is just a fact.
polichick
(37,152 posts)I think its time for Americans to say no to the killing done in our name.
solarhydrocan
(551 posts)Response to polichick (Reply #3)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.
polichick
(37,152 posts)JVS
(61,935 posts)Save money and let keep the PTSD safely far away.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)(Hard to describe the connection without spoilers, but people familiar with the book will get it)
MuseRider
(34,105 posts)This is horrifying. Well, the entire thing has always been horrifying to me but to go this far is simply unthinkable.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)It also reminded me of a fact I'd heard about firing squads- that one of the common practices was to load one of the rifles with a blank round. None of the shooters would know which was the blank, so all could realistically believe that perhaps they hadn't fired the shot that killed the prisoner.
I am no expert on the subject, but I'm not sure that the supposed distance or detachment drone strikes seen to give is altogether a good thing. I also don't know if, were I in the situation of having to order a strike, that would make it much easier for me to process. JMO. I think we're fooling ourselves if we think drone strikes are somehow humane- to the ones being struck or the ones ordering the strike.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,700 posts)Can you imagine the potential for a miscommunication?
Denninmi
(6,581 posts)Siri gives me the phone number of a Thai restaurant in Seattle.
This should work out great.
KT2000
(20,576 posts)the behavior of war with our internal morality. The drone operators go home each night so they are whiplashed between two worlds. They go home to children they are raising to be moral human beings and going to work to kill. I would suspect a unique set of problems for these operators.
JHB
(37,158 posts)...like 'Skynet' or 'Colossus' or 'Cylon'
GreenPartyVoter
(72,377 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)PTSD is a horrible problem and our soldiers should be given extraordinary treatment when it occurs.
With that said, I read this article and it feels like the higher ups order these killings are missing the point.
Our goal shouldn't be to avoid PTSD. Our goal should be to avoid engaging in sociopathic behaviors that cause the PTSD. The PTSD is a signal that the action is wrong for the human psyche. So, let's not do it, ok?
We are not meant to kill other human beings. It's trauma-inducing because we are not built to kill each other. Sociopaths and psychopaths are able to do these things without trauma--because something is horribly wrong with them. NOT RIGHT.
Passing off murder to robots/computers means that we're still killing innocent people.
How about we stop acting like psychopaths and sociopaths, in the first place?
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)<ding ding> I'll get right on that. Don't feel bad about this. Life is short and painful. We're helping these people go to a better place.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)What children sir, I see only some small terrorists!
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...but really, this affects all of our psyches. Knowing that we live in a country that surgically kills innocent men, women and children--using computers, is a living nightmare to many of us.
If anything, the damage is even greater.
Is this what we are? Is this who we are?
If so, we all suffer from knowing that this is what we allow, as a species.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)As for Democrats versus Republicans, all that matters here is the party in power. We certainly can claim no moral high ground, and if anything we are worse. Republicans are in favor of vaporizing foreigners pretty much all the time, and criticize our hesitation. We Democrats, on the other hand, only oppose it when it's the Republicans turn to aim pull the trigger.
Orrex
(63,203 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Everyone above their pay grade is insulated from the effects.
Orrex
(63,203 posts)It seems clear that the intent is to create a wall of denial between the operator and the people being killed.
I'm sure that it will work smashingly well in the immediate short term, but what happens hours or days or weeks later when the denial starts to break down, and the operator realizes exactly what he or she has done? Will Siri still be there to hold their hands?
d_r
(6,907 posts)this kind of crap is how we get to terminator
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and you are very correct
Response to Agnosticsherbet (Original post)
ann--- This message was self-deleted by its author.