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Sun Mar 4, 2012, 09:51 AM

"Jane, you ignorant....." sarcasm, irony, and the conservative mind - AND the bubble we live in.



6 seconds that became a verbal icon.

Conservatives simply do not get sarcasm and irony. An example. This is why talk radio hosts can say something ironic and it becomes fact in their listeners' minds. This, personally, is a great litmus test when I am in a group of strangers - throw out something ironic or sarcastic (not directed at anyone specifically) and anyone who does not in some way acknowledge it is 85% likely to be a conservative. It does have to be funny. They simply do not register it in their inner wiring.

The clip above was clearly meant to be bombastic and so over the top that it forever took that approach off the table. Yes there are ways to say the same type of thing, to dance around it, but you don't ever actually say it. At least most of us know that you don't.

The second point here is that this famous segment of actual humor was called Point/Counterpoint.
Those of us old enough remember when local news casts would have this type of segment on at the end of the telecast. Usually once or twice a week. It was devastating to the right. Their opinions and beliefs were so bombastic and so over the top when put in any proximity to common sense that they had to put space between the two.
How? Solidation of media, new "technology" (talk radio), and ending The Fairness Doctrine. Since then our news is not news - it is opinion, "beliefs" (re-igniting the centuries old conflict between faith and fact), and creating a bubble in which complete nonsense like the War in Iraq, the ACORN hoax, "Climategate", the impeachment of an unconvicted President, Pvt. Lynch, Pat Tillman, Solyndra, gun walking programs, the McDonals hot coffe lady, etc. can not only be consider in a discussion but become fact after endless repetition of the same nonsense and re-writing of history.

"The Big Lie" as Joe Conason titled his fantastic book. When the Point/Counterpoint model gets anywhere near them the hide behind "beliefs" and "ideals" (try those words in a Fox News drinking game - you will call in sick to work the next day) and then return back to their big lie talking points that they have cemented into their viewers/listeners heads....and sadly into everyone else's.


12 replies, 3423 views

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Reply "Jane, you ignorant....." sarcasm, irony, and the conservative mind - AND the bubble we live in. (Original post)
underpants Mar 2012 OP
BumRushDaShow Mar 2012 #1
underpants Mar 2012 #2
ibegurpard Mar 2012 #3
underpants Mar 2012 #4
duhneece Mar 2012 #5
underpants Mar 2012 #12
JHB Mar 2012 #6
underpants Mar 2012 #8
JHB Mar 2012 #10
supernova Mar 2012 #7
underpants Mar 2012 #9
JHB Mar 2012 #11

Response to underpants (Original post)

Sun Mar 4, 2012, 09:54 AM

1. That was classic Dan Ankroyd & Jane Curtin!

And what was once hyperbole and parody is now the normal discourse of the so-called "media".

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Response to BumRushDaShow (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 4, 2012, 09:56 AM

2. WOW

Man I wrote all that stuff and you nailed in two sentences.

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Response to underpants (Original post)

Sun Mar 4, 2012, 09:58 AM

3. I think that cons have a gene that makes them irony-impaired


It's gotten to the point where I read "The Onion" articles and have to stop and think for a second because our political discourse has actually degenerated to that point.

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Response to ibegurpard (Reply #3)

Sun Mar 4, 2012, 10:07 AM

4. literallyunbelieveable - Facebook posts by people who think The Onion is real

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Response to underpants (Original post)

Sun Mar 4, 2012, 10:33 AM

5. Such a good post I had to log in (I'm at a friend's house)

I was just going to spend one minute on DU...then I read this, had to be able to come back to it. Great.

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Response to duhneece (Reply #5)

Sun Mar 4, 2012, 06:58 PM

12. I am flattered

it should have been CONsolidated not Solidated....whoops.

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Response to underpants (Original post)

Sun Mar 4, 2012, 10:49 AM

6. You left out the original way around it...

...the "Crossfire" model:

a squishy "moderate" or "cenrist" cast as representing "The Left" (Tom Braden, Michael Kinsley, etc.);
a no-holds-barred, no-compromise, partisan conservative on "the Right" (Pat Buchanan, Robert Novack, etc.)

So you have someone attacking even Republican administrations for failure to be sufficnetly conservative, but no countering forceful argument for liberal policies and positions, nor liberal perspective on whatever topic was at hand. Since this marked the range of the debate in Washington circles, it helped pull "normal" to the right.

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Response to JHB (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 4, 2012, 11:10 AM

8. see post below. You are right about that - I think that the SNL skit was ....

showing the Crossfire model in the extreme. It is no longer considered extreme

The choice of the male conservative (forceful - strong) vs. the female liberal/moderate (considerate - weak) was part of the plan too.

The overarching goal was simply to get their product to market. Nothing beats free publicity...unless you are at a 2011/2012 Republican debate. There is such a thing as over exposure.

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Response to underpants (Reply #8)

Sun Mar 4, 2012, 12:43 PM

10. Well, the skit pre-dates Crossfile by a number of years...

...so it's really a case of reality becoming more like what SNL was parodying. Two deriviatives from the same source: one exaggerating for parody, the other refining the technique.

Al Franken was one of the writers for these, IIRC. I've always wanted his perspective on this perverse shift.

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Response to underpants (Original post)

Sun Mar 4, 2012, 10:52 AM

7. That skit was based on a 60 Minutes segment

running at the time. And I'm trying to remember who was in it. It was Jane____ ??? and a RW gas bag. Part of the reason the SNL skit was so funny was b/c everybody was watching those 60 Minutes segments.

edit: Found it:

In 1971, the "Point/Counterpoint" segment was introduced, featuring James J. Kilpatrick and Nicholas von Hoffman (later Shana Alexander), a three-minute debate between spokespeople for the political right and left, respectively. This segment pioneered a format that would later be adapted by CNN for its Crossfire show. This ran until 1979, when Andy Rooney, whose commentaries were already alternating with the debate segment since the fall of 1978, replaced it. Rooney remained with the program as a regular until his last show on October 2, 2011.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/60_Minutes#.22Point.2FCounterpoint.22_segment


Shana Alexander and James K Kilpatrick. :

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Response to supernova (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 4, 2012, 12:16 PM

9. I did not know that

thanks

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Response to supernova (Reply #7)

Sun Mar 4, 2012, 12:49 PM

11. Aykroyd's was based on James J. Kirkpatrick...

Kilpatrick began writing his syndicated political column, "A Conservative View," in 1964 and left the News Leader in 1966. Kilpatrick is perhaps best known for his nine years as a debater on the TV news magazine 60 Minutes. He appeared in a closing segment on each show in the 1970s called "Point-Counterpoint," opposite Nicholas von Hoffman and, later, Shana Alexander. This was later parodied on Saturday Night Live with Dan Aykroyd and Jane Curtin, where Aykroyd would respond to Curtin's opening argument with, "Jane, you ignorant slut." Another famous parody was in the film "Airplane!", in which Kilpatrick, played by William Tregoe, argues "Shana, they bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash." Tregoe also played Kilpatrick in a Point-Counterpoint parody in the film The Kentucky Fried Movie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_J._Kilpatrick

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