If you have a keyless ignition for your car--- beware.

[trumad]

Adele Ridless and Mort Victor had their bags packed Thursday but never made their flight. The couple was found dead in their home in the Boca Pointe community, and authorities suspect the culprit was a car left running in the garage.

Firefighters detected high levels of carbon monoxide Thursday afternoon when they entered the home on Travelers Tree Drive, west of Boca Raton. That invisible, odorless gas likely killed Ridless, 69, and her 79-year-old boyfriend, the Palm Beach County Sheriff's Office said.

Several neighbors believe a Mercedes in their garage had keyless ignition, a push-button feature found on cars linked to carbon monoxide deaths and injuries in at least four states.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/west-boca/fl-west-boca-monoxide-folo-20120303,0,5998182.story

[Drale]

1. Well my car shuts off after ten minutes of running without being in gear. /nt

[laundry_queen]

4. Yeah, mine has numerous safety features.

My ex-husband had an old childhood friend and his whole family die from CO poisoning in the same manner - a car started up in the garage and they were all found dead in their beds the next day.

My remote starter for my old vehicle (Pontiac, 2002) had a large 'start' button that I always seemed to press accidentally. That vehicle stayed running for about 25 min w/each start. Thankfully, we got rid of it about the same time as we bought a house with an attached garage.

My newer vehicle (Chev, 2006) has a feature where you have to hold down one button for 3 seconds and then hold the other button down for 3 seconds before the vehicle will start so it's hard to do it without intent. And it won't stay running for longer than 10 minutes. And you can't use the remote start more than twice in a row. I'm surprised this vehicle stayed running. I wonder how long a vehicle has to run in an attached garage before it becomes dangerous?

[B Calm]

15. So does my Silverado. They shouldn't have bought

an inferior foreign automobile, that was their biggest mistake!

[Logical]

21. Really? So you are glad they got taught a season? Jesus!!

[B Calm]

26. Over react much do you?

[Logical]

29. Be rude and thoughtless much?

[B Calm]

35. Lets get one thing straight!

YOU said that I was GLAD they got taught a season. GLAD, where did I say I was glad?

I presume season is suppose to be lesson. But not like you making up crap that I didn't say, I'll leave it at that!

Stop the personal attack!

[Buns_of_Fire]

38. Heck, I recently had an old Cadillac that would shut off every ten minutes, in gear or not.

Damned electronic module thingies, anyway. It took me the better part of a week to get it from Dallas to Charlotte, where a mechanic finally diagnosed it correctly (in Vicksburg, they were convinced it was because of a bent driveshaft -- I still can't wrap my head around what reasoning they used to come up with that conclusion).

[JHB]

45. The size of their bill n/t

[snagglepuss]

2. I have no pity on people who have the wherewithal to buy luxury cars

but not enough sense to have a Carbon Monoxide alarm.

[laundry_queen]

5. Yeah I don't get that either.

CO detectors and smoke detectors are so relatively cheap, and save so many lives, it's really odd people don't make sure they have them. It's now code for builders here - I'm in a fairly new house and my CO/smoke detector speaks to me loudly - in French and English - to tell me if it's a fire or CO alarm. The problem with building codes is it's the whole 'grandfathered in' part of it. So many homes don't have these detectors hardwired in.

[Saving Hawaii]

17. I'm surprised you have a combined CO/Smoke detector.

Smoke gases are mostly heavier than air, but they're hot so they rise to the ceiling where a typical smoke detector will notice them. Carbon monoxide is also heavier than air but it's not always hot enough to rise to the ceiling. A lot of CO detectors are designed to be placed near the floor where that gas will accumulate.

It's always a good idea to have detectors for both. They're inexpensive and they save lives.

[laundry_queen]

19. That's interesting, I didn't know that.

Yeah, it's a ceiling combo. Most of the CO detectors I've seen at the store are the same design, except for the ones that are plug-in ones (my parents have one of those, but it doesn't have a battery back up), so I had no idea that they didn't work. I haven't seen the ones designed to be near the floor when I've looked. There was a news story last year about a family getting out of their house alive when their CO detector went off in their relatively new house, so I assumed the ceiling ones worked just as well. From what I understand, they are extremely sensitive so maybe being on the ceiling doesn't affect how they can detect CO.

[NutmegYankee]

24. The CO isn't heavier.

[NutmegYankee]

22. Carbon Monoxide is slightly lighter than air.

Air is N2 (weight of 28) and O2(weight of 32) mixed in a rough 80/20 mix. CO has the same mass as N2.

[HopeHoops]

52. And yet where you want a CO detector near a ventless fireplace is at socket level.

Use the socket closest to the fireplace and it will catch it far quicker than a ceiling unit directly above it.

[BlueIris]

34. Great tips on the value of having both. Thanks!

My family averted catastrophe ten years ago as the result of having a Carbon Monoxide detector in the master bedroom.

[belcffub]

7. whole lota love you have for your fellow man...

could have been anything... many people don't know that CO detectors need to be replaced every so often... could have been any number of things... but hey as long as they are rich they deserve to die...

[tblue37]

8. At their age it could even have been an inability to hear an

alarm. (I have trouble hearing alarms.)

And they might have worked hard and lived frugally for many years to reach apoint where they were able to afford that car. Just owning a luxury car doesn't make one a bad person. We don't know aything about how they lived or what they believed, so it is absurd to badmouth them for not having an alarm.

[fil62793skx]

46. +1

[auntAgonist]

9. That is one huge assumption!

Such a tragedy.

aA

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. Would you be so lacking in empathy if it were a 78 Chevy Monte Carlo?

Or are you simply that full of hatred for anyone who can afford a luxury car?

[snagglepuss]

14. Exaggerate much? Where's the expression of hostility? These were preventable

deaths. No excuse for people not to have alarms.

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. "people who have the wherewithal to buy luxury cars" is what you wrote, I think.

You singled them out as a group you have no sympathy for in the context of having CO2 alarms. I was merely asking if there are other groups you think are undeserving of your sympathy under the same circumstances.

Where's the exaggeration in that?

[Logical]

30. Wow, ou sound like a thoughtful and caring person!

[snagglepuss]

32. The comment is directed at two people who squandered their lives.

To be their age and have all their wits about them as evidenced by the fact they live independently and are able to travel and have the means to maintain such a lifestyle is a privilege granted to few and they squandered it. Not having an alarm these days is akin to talking on a cell phone when driving, a deadly accident waiting to happen. I'm not grave dancing, I simply save my pity for those not implicated in their own demise.

[Comrade Grumpy]

33. Quit digging. n/t

[LanternWaste]

50. I imagine we may better rationalize our vulgarity...

I imagine we may better rationalize our vulgarity through the mechanism of using "preventable" in a sentence. I would think though, that many, many deaths are by definition, preventable-- thus allowing you illustrate your class many, many times over...

[HappyMe]

43. Wow.

Do you know for a fact that they didn't have one? Maybe they didn't hear it, maybe the batteries were dead, maybe the thing malfunctioned.

People that have nice cars deserve to die? Okay then.

[snagglepuss]

44. The comment is directed at two people who squandered their lives.

To be their age and have all their wits about them as evidenced by the fact they live independently and are able to travel and have the means to maintain such a lifestyle is a privilege granted to few and they squandered it. Not having an working alarm these days is akin to talking on a cell phone when driving, a deadly accident waiting to happen. I'm not grave dancing, I simply save my pity for those not implicated in their own demise.

[snooper2]

49. What kind of TV do you have?

Who makes your breaker box? (go look )

[leveymg]

3. Another day, another litigation opportunity.

[BiggJawn]

6. Double suicide?

Could be...

[tblue37]

11. Unlikely if they were packed to go on a trip together.

Packing is such a pain in the rear. Also, they'd bought plane tickets. Why bother if you're going on that other kind of trip?

Besides, others have died under similar circumstances, so Occam's Razor suggests that the most obvious explantion is the most likely one.

[Saving Hawaii]

18. Sometimes it's nice for the survivors to not view it as a suicide.

If you wanted to commit suicide but didn't want to leave your children/family with the memory that you were a suicide or that there was something they could've done to save you but didn't; finding a way to accidentally kill yourself makes sense.

But my money is on your bet. Doesn't smell like suicide to me.

[MicaelS]

20. No, I'm willing to bet the car ran so quietly

They got home, parked it, closed the garage door, got distracted by something and simply failed to shut the car off.

[sammytko]

23. That is what I think happened also

Its crazy how you tend to forget or not notice things as you get older.

I have to call and ask my SO if he turned off the heater in the bathroom and if he not only locked, but even closed the front door!

He's 65. He's left all three sets of keys to his truck locked in the truck and had to call a locksmith.

[Shankapotomus]

10. Who starts their car with the garage closed?

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. I can think of at least... two people. Not to worry though

I don't think they'll be doing it again.

[ecstatic]

25. maybe they forgot to turn it off after pulling in

I have one of those cars. Mine is so quiet, I can see how it could happen with one too many distractions. The car makes a beeping sound when the key leaves the car while it's still on. Of course, that fail safe would be useless if I were in the habit of leaving my keys in the car.

[me b zola]

27. Does not compute: "keyless ignition"

I'm working class. If we are lucky enough to have a car we have to turn a key.

[trumad]

28. Huh?

[uncle ray]

31. seriously?

you've never had to start a car with a screwdriver?

[me b zola]

36. LOL, you got me there

I've had to use a screw driver to jump the relay switch on an old beater I had, LOL

[bluedigger]

37. What does a keyless ignition have to do with anything?

Is there a significantly higher carbon monoxide death rate associated with cars with keyless ignitions? Why? The article seems to be making a random association.

[MicaelS]

39. Because with a keyless ignition system

You can walk away and leave the car idling. Without the key fob near the car, the car can't be taken out of gear and thus driven, BUT it will still idle in park. No key in the ignition switch means you don't have to pull a key out of the ignition switch (thus turning off the ignition) in order to unlock you house door, since most people keep their car and house keys on the same ring.

Manufacturers are going to have to start putting a timer on cars that shuts off the engine after the car has been idling in park with no key nearby after 10-15 minutes.

[bluedigger]

40. Thanks for pointing it out for me!

Man, I'm dense some times!

[krispos42]

41. Simple solution:

Put a CO detector on the car. The air intake sensors already monitor oxygen flowing to the engine, right?

Or it could be placed somewhere in the engine bay.

If levels rise to high, the car shuts off. Now it not only prevents accidents, it would prevent suicide by car.


Probably wouldn't help the overall suicide rate, but it could be a selling point.



It also would act as a secondary CO detector. If level climb, the horn started blaring. Could be a good thing for a garaged car, in case a fire starts in the garage or basement or whatever.

[MicaelS]

42. That's too much extra cost to integrate into cars

Plus if you get stuck in heavy traffic, what's to say it won't set off the CO detector. Simpler, cheaper and easier solution which would only take a bit of programing, is for the car to shut off when the car has been idling in park for more than 10 minutes.

[krispos42]

51. Mmmmm... good points, I guess.

Although I thought the catalytic converters turned everything into water vapor and CO₂ to begin with.

[Little Star]

47. As one of the comments state...

"It is very simple for car manufacturers to put in a "kill switch" timer."

Once manufacturers get sued enough they might add a kill switch. Until then it's good that people are being made aware of this. I had never heard of it happening and the thought that it could happen had never so much as crossed my mind.

Thanks for this post.

[snooper2]

48. It's the fault of the Home Builder

The gases from the garage should have never entered the home.

Holmes could have fixed this...

Everybody is looking at the wrong culprit LOL, and as I was getting ready to post this, my eyes scanned the thread and I saw something about "fancy cars and the people and buy them and a bunch of replies"

I'll go check that out now