Why must all health insurance plans include maternity coverage?

[B2G]

If you are an older couple or a single male, you now automatically are insured for maternity costs, which is responsible for driving up rates for that demographic. The same thing can be said for pediatric dental coverage, which is also mandated by the plans.

It makes no sense.

[JaneyVee]

1. United we stand, divided we fall.

[B2G]

2. That's not an answer

If that was the intent of this law, people wouldn't need to opt out and pay the tax.

[Recursion]

13. The single payer system people allegedly want would have to cover *every single condition*

Even ones you can't possibly get.

[questionseverything]

52. the difference is

there would be no costs incurred for a medical expense that could not possibly happen

[Recursion]

62. Right, but Medicare has a single premium rate

Meaning that I, as a man, am paying premiums for a policy that covers pregnancy (well, not so much pregnancy, given that it's Medicare, but let's say hysterectomies) just like women are paying premiums for a policy that covers prostate surgery.

[questionseverything]

75. spread the risk is great

unless you are in the old group that by law pays 3 times as much under aca

just saying

[Recursion]

76. 3 times, as opposed to up to infinite times as much before the ACA

Seriously, they used to be able to charge whatever the hell they wanted, and now they're limited to triple. And you're calling that a bad thing?

Yes, ultimately the age gap should go away. But it's unbelievably better than it was before.

[questionseverything]

81. aca is a decent step in right direction

i was just pointing out the "spread the risk" theory and benefit is only in the law for some of the population

we can not change stuff if we do not first identify the problem

you said, "Yes, ultimately the age gap should go away. But it's unbelievably better than it was before.'

so looks like we agree

[Moosepoop]

91. Actually, Medicare does cover pregnancy.

Seniors are not the only ones who get Medicare -- so do disabled people, including disabled women of childbearing age. Expenses for prenatal, delivery, and postnatal charges for the mother are all covered under Part B (possibly with deductibles and copays). The baby (once he/she arrives) is not covered by Medicare, but might qualify for Medicaid coverage if the parental income is low enough.

[Recursion]

92. Good point

I was just trying to forestall a complaint about that.

[Moosepoop]

101. Let 'em complain...

[BlueCaliDem]

56. Here's a good answer:

because being a woman is no longer a pre-existing condition.

[DebJ]

98. Applause applause!

[LukeFL]

125. Love it!!

[DrDan]

3. it also includes coverage for heart disease, which would of course be found more

in seniors

I think it somewhat balances out (could be wrong though)

[Squinch]

4. And as a single female, I'm automatically ensured for prostate cancer treatment. And I feel the

need to complain that that is driving my rates up.

[itsrobert]

6. And old men's penis stiffy pills

n/t

[Squinch]

15. Exactly. But girly things? Eeww, no! Not paying for those! No sir! That's not fair!

[Ninga]

20. do they work? nt

[itsrobert]

23. I am fortunate enough or (cursed) to not have this problem

yet.

[itsrobert]

5. Shared sacrifice

You have never heard of a single male getting a woman/or child pregnant and running away from his responsibilities?

[B2G]

11. How would that cover her?

She's not on his insurance plan.

[itsrobert]

21. It won't, but her insurance plan

should cover it because it's part of the law. Because we as a nation have deemed we share in the coverage such such as this. I must not understand your question.

[Nye Bevan]

17. Good point. Men are generally partially responsible for pregnancies,

so why should they not contribute towards the associated health care costs?

[FarCenter]

58. Men who have had vasectomies should get a discount

[Recursion]

63. Gah! No. Winnowing out parts of the population is exactly the problem

That's why we're in the insurance mess we're in to begin with.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

145. Have you seen the tens of thousands of pages of tax code recently?

If that's your windmill, get to tilting.

[Useless in FL]

154. So a woman who has had her tubes tied or her uterus removed should get a double discount!

Come on you guys, women need health care too.

[FarCenter]

160. Yes, she should get a discount reflecting the fact that she will not need obstetric care.

[seabeyond]

162. both the men and women should pay me for getting those procedures i did not get and helped pay for

[Recursion]

8. Why must people without kids pay for public schools?

It makes no sense, I tell you!

[DrDan]

29. I hear that SOOOOOO often here in Florida

unfortunately it is usually stated without the "sarcasm" thingie attached

unbelievable

[Posteritatis]

34. Yep. Identical thought process. (nt)

[Nye Bevan]

9. Single payer would do the same thing.

Under single payer, should younger women pay a higher health care tax so that everyone else can pay a lower rate?

[Recursion]

18. Ah, you beat me to it (nt)

[CreekDog]

167. yes, because odds are that she'll get old

[Logical]

10. Really? Serious question? n-t

[Warpy]

12. It's a condition requiring medical assistance

although confining all of it to hospitals makes no sense to anyone but the bean counters at hospitals. It's high profit.

If you want to get picky about which conditions you want to pay for, allow me to get picky about things like covering injuries sustained in bar fights, weekend warrior sports injuries, and prostate surgery.

It makes perfect sense if you turn off AM radio and bother to think it through.

[Barack_America]

14. For one, because men use maternity coverage too.

If you are under a certain age, even if you are male, you have used maternity coverage before. It was used to to monitor your growth and development, it was used to deliver you safely into this world. It covered your care in your first days of life. You may have not used it again in your life, but you did use it and you bear the responsibility to make sure it's available to others.

Edited to change title.

[JustAnotherGen]

78. Unique and excellent point of view

And quite fair!

[DebJ]

99. Awesome answer! n/t

[Paulie]

123. Bravo! Great answer!

OP can self delete now.

[Barack_America]

144. Thanks.

[phleshdef]

16. So what? Its like ok, one flat rate, all these things get covered as they apply to you.

Of course there are certain medical situations that some people will be in and others will never be in.

Also, this is one way of keeping health insurance plans from singling out women for higher rates just because they are women.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

19. If you are a young woman you are automatically insured for

the treatment of high blood pressure, osteoporosis and coronary artery disease, which are afflictions mainly of older people. You are also insured for the cost of treating prostate cancer, which only men get - mostly older men. That's how insurance works: the risk is spread among as many premium-paying people as possible. Some insured people will get pregnant, but those people will never get prostate cancer. Some people will never get pregnant or prostate cancer. Some people will be perfectly healthy until they get old and then they get all the crappy things old people are susceptible to. But it all comes out in the wash. You pay for other people's medical expenses so that someday they will pay for yours.

[Barack_America]

22. Nah. I think I'll just get covered for the thing that will eventually kill me.

Save some money not worrying about that other stuff.

[B2G]

24. My point is that to make this work,

we need young healthy people to sign up in significant numbers. Now that I'm seeing the rates for that demographic, I'm concerned it will be cost prohibitive for them and they'll just opt out. I think it would have made more sense to tailor a plan for the young to incentivize them.

I know, I know. My concern is 'duly noted'.

[cbayer]

27. Having maternity care could be an incentive for young healthy people

to sign up.

Of all the services offered, this is one that may likely need.

[Barack_America]

30. Um, it's the young who have babies.

You want to talk about prohibitively expensive insurance for them? Crunch the numbers for maternity coverage if the cost is not shared by all.

I'll give you a taste from a quote my family and I got last year, $500 per month in premiums for coverage that kicked in after about $5000 in deductibles. You think that's affordable for young people?

[CreekDog]

168. congratulations, you thought real hard and are recommending a return to the pre-Obamacare system

what a genius. got any other winners for us?

no seriously, you completely misunderstand the system and its reforms and what you're asking for is the old system.

it's a moronic point of view.

[DURHAM D]

25. For years I helped men pay for vasectomies and hair transplants

while my maternity costs were not covered.

[hlthe2b]

26. were you born? then you have reason to be expected to share in maternity costs...

The elder couple's issues are likewise shared across the population and thus younger people will share the costs for incontinence, cancers, and undoubtedly dear to the heart of those men questioning that maternity costs are covered, penile erectile dysfunction.

GROW UP

[elleng]

28. The idea of insurance is

to spread the risk. Without maximizing the size of the 'market,' insurance fails.

[jberryhill]

31. Why am I paying for pap smears and mammograms!

[Squinch]

37. Especially those smears! Why do they have to be smears? Why can't they be tidy blots?

Not only why are you paying for them, but why must you pay for such shoddy workmanship?

[irisblue]

32. a kid born in summer 2014 could be my XRay Tech, RN, Dr in 2036

Last edited Sat Oct 5, 2013, 07:04 PM - Edit history (1)

when I am a little feisty old lady. I would rather have people whose mother got good prenatal care taking care of me.

[mainer]

33. Would you rather it not be covered and pay for lifetime care of brain damaged infants?

Of all things society should cover, maternity care should be number one.

[kestrel91316]

35. Why must all health insurance plans include treatment of impotence?

[kestrel91316]

36. Why do I, a nonsmoker, have to pay for coverage of smoking-related illnesses in smokers?

[former9thward]

41. You don't.

Smokers are charged higher premiums.

[kestrel91316]

45. Not nearly enough to cover what they cost their fellow insured.

And it all goes into the same pool anyway.

Last I looked, lung cancer cost a tad more than a few thousand dollars to treat. Same for a triple bypass, a stroke, a lifetime of asthma, etc etc etc.

Smokers are parasites on the rest of us.

[former9thward]

46. I assume you will come up with some math to back up your assumptions.

Insurance companies are not in business to lose money.

[kestrel91316]

47. Of course they aren't. They charge ALL of us more than enough to cover the cost of treating

smoking-related illness.

How much more does a smoker pay for monthly premiums? Multiply that by how many years they have left to live. Now compare that to how much all their illnesses actually cost to treat. You will find that the extra premiums don't begin to cover it.

[former9thward]

67. Its your assertion not mine.

You come up with the math showing how insurance companies are losing money on smokers.

Actually here it is: Section 1201 of the Affordable Care Act requires that insurance plans sold to individuals or small companies can only vary their premiums by age (they can charge their eldest customers 3 times what they charge their youngest ones) and by tobacco use (they can charge smokers 1.5 times what they charge non-smokers).

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/07/13/smokers-rejoice-latest-obamacare-glitch-forces-non-smokers-to-subsidize-your-health-coverage/

For instance, it costs 18% more for an insurance company to provide coverage for a smoker, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/03/health/health-care-open-enrollment/index.html

So smokers cost 18% more and get charged 50% more. Smokers are subsidizing non-smokers.

[SomethingFishy]

129. Parasites?

On the rest of us? So you are without flaw? You do nothing that is bad for your health? You don't eat fats, salt, sugar? You don't drive a car? You don't drink coffee?

You must be the most perfect person on the planet.

[FarCenter]

60. But smokers die younger, so they don't cost Social Security as much

[kestrel91316]

38. Why do I, as a woman, have to pay for coverage of prostate disease treatment?

[kestrel91316]

39. Why do I, as someone who eats right and has a normal body weight, have to pay for coverage of

obesity-related diseases like Type 2 diabetes and hypertension and knee replacement surgery?

[PotatoChip]

95. Hypertension is not necessarily obesity related.

I was only 23 years old, and weighed less than 110lbs (5'4) when I had to go on BP meds. Still weigh less than average, still active and still taking the meds. 25 years later. Only at higher doses.

[kestrel91316]

109. I am referring to hypertension related to obesity.

[PotatoChip]

111. Not everyone understands that, though.

I know it, and I figured that you probably do too, with your advanced medical training as a veterinarian.

But so many other people don't. Granted, a minor thing, but it's kind of a pet peeve of mine.

[tsuki]

40. same reason all cable packages charge for FOX.

[karynnj]

49. Fantastic answer!

[madinmaryland]

42. Sheesh! Obviously you do not understand the concept of insurance and specifically health

insurance. Insurance provides a shared risk to all people. Which is the reason single payer/universal health care is the best possible solution, as it pulls everyone into that shared pools, providing lower rates and insures that everyone is covered.

[geek tragedy]

43. Because it's freaking health care, nt

[Lars39]

44. Because it is healthcare.

What is so damn fucking hard to understand about pregnant women and children needing healthcare?

[karynnj]

48. Plans are not tailored to the individual --

What this reflects is that under the new law, women and men are charged the same amount. In addition, the amount that older people can be charged vs younger people is regulated. Before this happened, the older couple would have been charged far more than they will now. While neither is likely to get pregnant, they are FAR more likely to have some medical issue.

[pnwmom]

50. Because women are human beings and sometimes they incur these costs.

Women have higher costs in some health issues, men in others. They're no longer able to charge women more for some types of coverage, but not men. Gender will not be a factor in determining rates.

[Skittles]

51. because we as human beings have a vested interest in the newer generations?????

[MADem]

53. Because YOU want the kids who will be paying into YOUR social security (and mine)

to be born HEALTHY, so they can work and contribute to society....and to the comfortable safety net of their elders.

It makes complete sense.

It's called a social contract.

[B2G]

54. No. What I want it is a truly low cost plan

For those who don't qualify for subsidies and can't afford the bronze plan and don't qualify for Medicaid. There are a lot of them. And it seems to me that this makes a whole lot more sense than forcing them to do without becase they can't afford it.

ACA was supposed to fix this issue...folks who aren't insured because they can't afford it. So fix it. If it means a skinnied down coverage plan, so be it. It's better than being unisured.

[MADem]

61. What? You don't want children in the country to be born healthy?

That's what you were crabbing about--maternity coverage.

You can make the perfect the enemy of the good all day if you'd like.

Frankly, if anyone were to be selfish, it should be me. I have TFL, I'm in the catbird seat compared to most folks. I could say "I got mine and to hell with everyone else." Even at that, I see the bigger picture, I see beyond my own advantages, and I support the ACA because I know that once people jump on the train, they'll want even more and they'll realize that a rising tide does, in fact, lift all boats.

[Recursion]

64. You may want that, but getting that doesn't fix the wider problem. In fact it would make it worse

If we start doing that, we go right back into pricing out of insurance the exact people who need it most.

[B2G]

69. So we just let folks go uninsured

because they can't afford it.

OK.

[Recursion]

70. No, we offer them catastrophic coverage through the exchange, and charge them higher taxes

at a rate that goes up until it becomes a better deal to buy the insurance than not

[Squinch]

84. You know, I was wondering why, in addition to bronze, gold and silver, they didn't come up with a

plan called "Coverage for Health Issues B2G Will Get And Only Health Issues B2G Will Get" too.

Must have been an oversight.

You should call your Congressperson.

Because your Congressperson should know that when you want to insure those who can't afford to buy the policies, the first thing you should do is drop women of childbearing age. Because that would make everything work.

Edited to add: Again.

[Ellipsis]

104. Hahahahahahah!

I love this place.

[Cleita]

85. Then you should have actively lobbied for Medicare for all or

a public low cost option to buy into. Those are the least expensive ways to deliver quality healthcare to everyone.

[on point]

55. Because it reduces costs for all, and spreads the cost

Having single type plans instead of all sort of customized plans reduces the operational costs of the plan which every individual benefits from

Covering things that you don't use, but others do spreads the costs among society, that's why it is insurance

[seabeyond]

57. Who is the second half of the equation? Oh wait, a male. Suck it up.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

59. single men dont get single women pregnant? i dont pay for the extra healthcare a geriatric couple

needs?


i cannot believe this question was asked in ernest due to its IMMENSE stupidity

[FarCenter]

65. They should be asked to pay for the abortion

Anything more is the woman's decision.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

68. i have no idea what your statement means. nt

[FarCenter]

74. If the woman chooses to have the baby, she should pay for it.

[DrDan]

77. are you serious? Perhaps you forgot to insert a smilie?

[Recursion]

83. You're not familiar with this poster's track record, are you? (nt)

[DrDan]

89. no - I am not

[La Lioness Priyanka]

86. the same way that if the elderly decide to get heart surgery they should pay for it?

are you sure you should be on DU? because i am pretty sure you shouldn't

[FarCenter]

93. It is not clear whether heart surgery should be covered in all cases.

The data indicate that drugs and lifestyle modification are as successful in prolonging life as either stents or bypass surgery.

One of the key mechanisms to reduce healthcare costs is to reduce the frequency of discretionary medical expenses (e.g. cosmetic surgery) or medical expenses that are of debatable value (bypass surgery).

Choosing to have a baby is the high cost discretionary option compared with terminating the pregnancy.

[PotatoChip]

100. Since when has cosmetic surgery been covered by insurance?

[FarCenter]

106. When it is "medically necessary".

Usually the terms "cosmetic surgery" and "reconstructive surgery" are used to distinguish between not necessary and necessary procedures.

But there are gray areas and judgment calls.

See http://www.aetna.com/cpb/medical/data/1_99/0031.html for examples.

[DebJ]

97. Hm. Imagine that. Someone who believes men are not responsible for their actions.

No further text because not worth it.

[bettyellen]

90. IMMENSE stupidity..... I had neighbors give birth squatting between parked cars to give birth

on the main street in town and deliver still born babies and burying them in the back yard (or leaving them in the broken washing machine in their basement) because they couldn't get care, were afraid of the cost of services. These neighbors were poor and uninsured, and could have used pre natal care, as well as mental health services, obviously.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

113. stupidity with a good side of selfishness too

[bettyellen]

114. Yep, completely forgetting how we ALL got here in the first place.

I never wanted kids, but I never forgot. This reminds me of some well meaning person who families in poverty could afford to keep the women from working. Many forget that women don't get paid for the bulk of the work they do on this planet.
Sheesh!
Hope you are well!

[DebJ]

66. Why should I pay for erectile dysfunction drugs? Because of basic insurance principles.

Because the basic concept of insurance is the pooling together of people's funds to cover future
contingencies. Everyone chips in (and actually hopes they NEVER need it), but if you do,
there is coverage. The only way insurance can function is that some people pay for coverage
that they never will really need. Otherwise, it doesn't work.

The insurance industry publishes and teaches a basic insurance principles course, and the text
is an easy do-it-yourself read, if you really want to find your answers. I took the course on my
own some 30 years ago, and have never regretted doing so.

By the way, erectile dysfunction drugs are not a requirement for basic health and safety,
and can result in unplanned pregnancies that my taxes will ultimately have to feed, clothe,
and shelter, if one wants to get picky or nasty about things.

And the reason erectile dysfunction meds are covered, is because they are for MEN, who have
controlled every single aspect, particularly financial ones, of the lives of women and children for
centuries. And their pleasure counts more than the life of anyone who is not an adult male.
Their PLEASURE.

What, you think women, being paid at 70% of the rate that men get paid, should pay entirely
for the cost of insurance for pregnancy and for treating children? Isn't it enough that millions
of women have to be responsible all by themselves 24/7/365 for every single need of the children
because that 'single male' couldn't care less, or indeed, is bragging how he has spawned offspring
(hopefully without much of his genetic irresponsibility) and bragging he never pays a dime? I've
heard that tripe before..........and I shut it down, because thankfully, that idiot worked for me.

The primary driver of increased premiums for older couples is AGE; states are allowed to charge
up to 300% more for us old farts on fixed incomes and high risk. But I think if we went to
single payer, and had the system up and running for a decade or so, perhaps that premium charge
could be smoothed out, so that you actually pay for your medical costs of old age while you are
younger and earning more, rather than when it becomes almost financially impossible to do so.

Why do I have to pay more for my car insurance just because drunk drivers cause accidents?
I don't drink. Nor do I use illegal substances, nor do I drive while under the influence of
prescription drugs.

[FarCenter]

73. Insurance companies write policies based on the quantifiable risks of specific groups.

Figuring out what risk group a prospective customer is in and offering a suitable policy is a key to running a successful insurance business.

For example, since male and female mortality rates are different, and vary by age, term life insurance policy rates depend on those variables. Taking smoking, occupation, etc. into account refines these rates in policies offered by some companies.

[DebJ]

94. Those 'groupings' are determined by state law.

For example, in Pa, females must now pick up part of the tab for males' much higher accident rates.

And it is these groupings that made people unable to get insurance at all....pre-existing conditions,
or to be charged so much that they could not afford the insurance...in effect, by putting these
people in such groups, there was NO insurance, and they expected all high risk people to
actually just pay for themselves. Doesn't work.

[DebJ]

96. And let me add, what is the goal for our society and our country?

MAXIMUM profitability for insurance companies, which is how we have been running things?


OR is it more affordable health care for all citizens, and at least for now, some profitability in order for insurance
companies to continue to be viable?

We have chosen the latter. The former didn't work. Except for insurance CEOs.

[pnwmom]

102. And none of these factors will apply any longer,

any more than they do in large group plans (with the exception of smoking).

Now, through the exchanges, everyone can be in a large group plan, where insurance rates are the same for men and women, with only a few broad categories based on age.

[DebJ]

103. Although now that I review your posts, your personal goal is only to be

responsible for your own self, correct? And then, only responsible for those
things which you are forced to be responsible for....like a pregnancy.

[seabeyond]

119. since a woman does not get preg by self, a man is a part of it, your argument utterly fails. not to

mention all the other numerous way it fails. just the fact that both male and female have a part in a preg makes your statement fail.

now, a man using viagra is ALL about his sexuality and has nothing to do with women.

i dont wanna pay... waaaa

you are very anti female, and yet your anti woman is repeatedly allowed on du. but more and more people will recognize it is merely anti woman.

[FarCenter]

120. Gender Differences in Health Care Expenditures,

http://www.amcp.org/data/jmcp/JMCPSupp_April08_S2-S6.pdf

Conclusion

In search of strategies for reducing health care costs, U.S. health
care payers should focus on the management of postmenopausal
women. This population represents a great opportunity
for balancing cost and quality of care. Between their late forties
and early sixties, women tend to spend 50% more than men on
health care. With the onset of menopause, the prevalence and
impact of costly conditions increases substantially among women.
However, management of CVD, breast cancer, osteoporosis, and
menopause in women is often not meeting measurable standards
of care. MCOs should focus on this population to ensure efficient
and effective use of resources. Proper screening, preventive care,
and therapeutic management in postmenopausal women could
potentially lead to downstream reduction in overall costs. The
following articles will provide a clinical update on the management
of postmenopausal women. In addition, management of
VMS will be presented as an opportunity for emphasizing overall
standards of care in this segment.

It's not just obstetrical costs.

[seabeyond]

122. we are talking about why men have to spend the money on little wimminz with preg. you spoke up

and whined.

you ignore the part of the equation men are a part of the preg. you say nothing. crickets. and bring up another argument.

men also tend to fail to go to a doctor to take care of health issues. cause women are smarter and get their problem taken care of early on you wnat to punish them once again? or address mens fear and societal conditioning of "bucking up" and going to doctor maybe living as long as women.

sounds like you want to further penalize good decision making.

[rock]

71. Because of republicans!

For two reasons:
1) Even males can get pregnant, so everybody needs to be covered;
2) Until they find out what causes it they can't stop it!

(Sarcasm: or maybe you thought since I was talking about repugs, it could be true.)

[Rex]

72. It makes no sense, because you are not looking at this as a social safety net.

This is not about you.

[Happyhippychick]

79. Why should I, a non-smoking non-drinking vegan triathlete have to pay for your mcDonalds habit?

And to now say "I don't eat there" misses the point entirely.

[Cleita]

80. Because it's a medical expense and maybe you don't need

it now, but there was a time when you or your mother did. Also remember that younger people are subsidizing your increased health care needs. It's like old people who think they shouldn't pay for public schools because they don't have school aged children but didn't they and their children once attend public school?

[handmade34]

82. it makes as much sense as

me paying property taxes for the local schools when I don't have any school age kids...

we all benefit from an educated **and healthy** citizenry... my insurance payments go to pay for someone's heart surgery, another person's doctor visit because of the flu, another person's routine checkup, another person's vasectomy and yet another person's maternity care and baby delivery...

[raccoon]

153. great post. nt

[msanthrope]

87. Did you come from a woman? Were you delivered and cared for at birth? There's

your use of maternity care.

Have you procreated? Do you have the potential to do so? There you go...you are covering your risk.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

88. Seriously?

Do you understand spreading of risk? Young pregnant women don't cost the system nearly as much as older person with diabetes. Why should they subsidize that?

[bravenak]

105. Are you being cute?

You know the answer to this. You know you know it. And now you know I know you know. So no more acting brand new.

[TheBlackAdder]

108. More like trolling. n/t

[TheBlackAdder]

107. $2,000 for Prenatal care, Standard Delivery $10K, Cesarean $15K - Cost Over 50 Colonoscopy $3.8K

You have obviously no comprehension as to how insurance works.

It is to spread the costs of health care across the insured base.

Just as you complain about maternity costs, the average person over 50 incurs $3.8K in colonoscopy costs alone.

That is EACH AND EVERY person over 50.... Not just a segment of people under 40.

===

And that's just colonoscopies alone. As a person ages, the number of medical claims, their hospital visits and the durations of those hospital visits increase. It are the people over 50 who are the ones dragging the costs of health care higher. Sure you'll complain because you are in that bracket that is too old for children anymore, but too young for Medicare.

I bet you're the same type of person who puts 3-4 kids through school and then when they are out, you start complaining to your town and school board about the excessive educational costs -- demanding cost reductions.

[trumpetero]

110. I don't see why not

Maternal care is an important stage.

[alarimer]

112. Because plans are not tailored to the individual

It's not like cable tv, where you only order the packages you want.

It's really more of a group thing. It covers every single possible medical condition, period.

[TheKentuckian]

115. Because healthcare is not and cannot be a rational market.

The issues come from pretending like it is one, at least circumstantially as we are forced to by trying to maintain a private system with individual responsibility rather than moving the funding system to the commons where it belongs.

Of course pooling risk itself doesn't really mesh with the wider system either. By definition, insurance means spreading the risk and rewards around and you can't ever really do this without subsidizing something you don't need in exchange for being subsidized for things the other people might not need.

There is also the locked in factor of not having any idea of what you may need. Never smoking does not mean you won't need coverage for lung cancer, your risk is reduced but it is certainly present just as most smokers do not die of a smoking related illness but their risk is higher. Your statistical model is meaningless on an individual basis.

There is no real way to do what you seem to want other than to do away with virtually all form of risk pooling and just say each person is responsible for their individual cost.

I suggest that the current model (before and after reform) foolishly attempts to live in both worlds and cannot help but to land in a silly place with abundant logic traps.

You seem to want to be subsidized but want to avoid subsidizing others otherwise why do you want insurance at all, pay your own tab.

[idwiyo]

116. I can explain why USA doesn't have NHS, it would be easier. :)

Because of people like you.

See, people like me believe it's our responsibility to pay our portion of NHS tax to make sure that healthcare is available to anyone and everyone when they need it. And we know it will be here for us when we need it too. No questions asked. Just like that.

I am perfectly aware that portion of my taxes will be used to cover people who don't contribute to NHS for whatever reasons. I am OK with it. Actually I am happy to pay more just to make sure NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON in UK will go without. I don't give a fig why they don't contribute, or why they need specific services. NOT MY BUSINESS. My business is to pay my taxes, and to rest easy knowing NHS will be there for all of us.

Thankfully there are a lot of people like me in UK.

[Warren DeMontague]

117. Because the entire idea of insurance is predicated on paying for OTHER people.

Just as they pay for you.

[BainsBane]

126. I think the point is

wimenz aren't people.

[Warren DeMontague]

131. Well that's just fucking goofy, innit?

And I don't mean engaging in an unnatural act with one of those folks in the suit at Disneyland.

Anyway, some people, I've noticed, are particularly not clear on the concept of how insurance works.

Bottom line is, biggest pool possible, comprehensive care = cost savings in the long run. Which is why I think a SPHC system would be ideal, but barring that, the ACA is an improvement.

Lastly, no matter what flatulations may be made on the matter, maternity care is and will remain a central part of any comprehensive health coverage, unless I'm mistaken. Seems to me the battle right now is getting those 26 states that haven't expanded medicaid, to do so.

[BainsBane]

134. I have to say some arguments around here are becoming increasingly strange

I've never even heard a Republican suggest maternity care shouldn't be covered. As I said in a post below, society has a clear interest in the propagation of the species.

[Warren DeMontague]

135. Honest question, though: How many people in this thread are actually saying that?

I think maybe one or two, max. But I haven't read the whole thing.

[BainsBane]

138. As far as I've noticed, just the OP

but I do recall a thread in another group that isn't yours complaining about how women use more medical resources than men because we (or some of us) give birth. Evidently the fact that those kids are also men's didn't register in the thought process.

[Warren DeMontague]

139. Who knew Goofy was such a stud?

Anyway, your post reminded me of this poem:

Yesterday, upon the stair,
I met a man who wasn’t there
He wasn’t there again today
I wish, I wish he’d go away...

[BainsBane]

140. I'm looking for a good video or graphic

to explain the birds and the bees to the OP. I where did I come from kind of thing.

[Warren DeMontague]

142. Just for you I just sat through several minutes of a brain-killingly boring "Christian Sex Ed" video

5 minutes in and then they obliquely refer to the sex part. It's not funny enough to share.

This is good, though:

[BainsBane]

143. I'm thinking something more informative is in order

since the OP seems to have some issue with insurance covering his very entrance into the world.

There are some funny ones out there. Perhaps as a father, you can relate to this one.

[Warren DeMontague]

147. I can tell you that back when it was personally relevant, "maternity coverage" was not an academic

Last edited Sun Oct 6, 2013, 08:23 PM - Edit history (1)

Question.

I just dont think it's worth bothering with, here.

-edited to remove extraneous and head-scratchingly incomprehensible acronyms-

[BainsBane]

149. I'm not smart enough to follow your jokes,

insinuations, or insults--whichever that one is. A look at the urban dictionary would suggest it's the latter.

[Warren DeMontague]

150. PM incoming

[BainsBane]

141. Oh but he went away

courtesy of the ignore function.

[B Calm]

118. Is this an example of I got mine so screw you?

[boston bean]

121. i guess men had nothing to do with the condition the woman finds herself in?

And bears absolutely no responsibility.

Most men want the babies they helped to conceive born healthy.

[MineralMan]

124. Fair play. That's why.

Besides, every pregnancy involves both sexes, last I heard.

[BainsBane]

127. Maybe because society has a vested interest in the propagation of the human species?

and the social good doesn't include allowing hundreds of thousands of women to die in childbirth?

I've never had kids, but It has never occurred to me to complain that employers are required to pay for pre- and post-natal care. Nor have I ever thought my desire to save a few bucks was more important that funding schools. Why? I care about the social good, human rights, and I'm not a narcissist. I don't have heart disease or high blood pressure either, nor do I have the possibility of developing prostate cancer. There are lots of treatments covered by insurance that I will never need. Medical coverage pools resources and expenses for the benefit of a broad group of people, not just a particular individual. The alternative is an Ayn Rand view of the world, not well respected among Democrats.

[liberal_at_heart]

128. I'm hearing a lot of shared sacrifice comments and yet when I ask where is the funding for my

child's education I get blown off. Where is the shared sacrifice for public education?

[Warren DeMontague]

132. If you're asking whether public schools should be funded better than they are

I agree with you.

[liberal_at_heart]

136. thank you. Most people on this site won't acknowledge that because they are afraid of making

the democrats look bad.

[Warren DeMontague]

137. Really? It should be job one.

I live in a state that has suffered from budget cuts, and it shows.

[BainsBane]

146. I think you know that funding is local

and subject to local levies, which BTW I always vote in favor of, despite having no children. I prefer to pay for schools than jails.

Besides insurance is provided by employers. Except for Medicaid, we aren't talking about federal funding in his thread.

[ismnotwasm]

130. So humans can continue as a species?

Jesus.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

133. You are starting to look pretty transparent

[Arugula Latte]

148. Riddle me this. Why do young healthy women have to pay for cardiac care for fat old men?

[Hekate]

169. Not to mention women having to pay for old men's Viagra! Jeez. All these years...

...women have to pay out of pocket for birth control pills, but the first time there's a sex pill for men, no questions asked.

[Arugula Latte]

170. Yeah, that one is absolutely infuriating.

[NoOneMan]

151. Because if everyone but pregnant people op out of it, it will cost a fortune for pregnant women

[Lil Missy]

152. My insurance covers boner problems

Insurance is supposed to cover sickness or injury, and some preventive care. No need to pick and choose for each person.

[Warren DeMontague]

155. Yeah, but those can cause trouble for everyone.

[KamaAina]

156. Because pregnancy is defined as a medical condition?

EPIC FAIL.

[steve2470]

157. makes complete sense.....to me nt

[SoCalDem]

158. Why should I have to "pay for" prostate exams.. I am female.

Why should I have to "pay for" motorcycle accidents? (I think they are dangerous, and people should stay off them)

Why should I have to "pay for schools"?..my kids graduated decades ago

Why should I have to pay for interstate roads I will never drive on?

Why should I pay for food stamps for others? (I have never used them)



BECAUSE WE ARE IN A SOCIETY....REMEMBER E PLURIBUS UNUM?

and because that's the DEFINITION of insurance.. When you buy homeowners insurance you are betting (with your Premiums) that your little money to buy coverage is worth losing that money ...But IF you ever have a fire..or some freaky storm blows your roof off, the premiums collected by millions of people who do NOT have your particular event happening, will pay for the repair of YOUR house.

Medical insurance (if you want it to work) HAS to be a comprehensive/all-inclusive plan.. When we buy it, we HOPE we will not NEED to use it...BUT in case we DO get sick, we need it to avoid instant poverty that lasts a lifetime

[moriah]

159. You're thinking "rates" and "demographics".

The goal of health care reform is to move to a system where everyone is covered -- the risk pool is 100% of the nation. Makes "demographics" pointless.

You're still thinking in the "I don't use it, so I shouldn't have to pay for it" mindset. That's the mindset that makes healthy people not buy insurance, even though if they did buy insurance the premiums would be lower for everyone. We're past that point -- in 2014, it's mandate or pay the penalty unless you're exempt. Same goes for maternity coverage.

If nothing else, think about it this way: someone gave birth to you at some point, and you didn't have to pay for it. Now, we all pay to help children come into this world healthy. It's not just a woman's problem, then... it's a human one.

[davidn3600]

161. I think the bigger question is who uses the system more? Men or women?

The reason women were charged more for insurance is because women go to the doctor more often than men. Men avoid the doctor as much as possible. Therefor men are cheaper to insure.

Also notice how feminists don't care that men have to pay more life or auto insurance. No fight for equality there, apparently.

[KitSileya]

163. And when they go to the doctor, their illnesses are so progressed, they cost more.

However, you have quite the gall to expect feminists to fight your fights for you...lazy much? Why don't you start working on getting equitable auto insurance for men... and perhaps work on campaigns to make men safer drivers while you're at it?

This is the same entitled thinking that cry about men not being allowed into women't shelters - shelters feminists have worked for and funded, often with nary a dollar from the government, and not even seeing the idea that perhaps if you think there's a need for shelters for men, you should actually work for them?

As for the complaint that women use the system more, perhaps you should also work to change the perception that men should "tough it out" and encourage men to go to the doctor when they get symptoms? Wouldn't that be better than punishing women for going to the doctor oftener - and thereby living longer? It seems to me that you're more interested in dragging women down than rectifying the patriarchal notion that men shouldn't be "weak," shouldn't go to the doctor, shouldn't talk about things etc.

[davidn3600]

165. My point was more about the idea that insurance charges women more because they are misogynistic

The reason men pay more for life insurance is because men don't live as long and usually take on more risky jobs and activities throughout their life. Men drive more than women and get into more accidents than women, that's why men pay more for car insurance.

Women paid more for health insurance because they go to the doctor more often, and have more complex medical issues just simply due to their anatomy. It has nothing to do with some committee of all men deciding they hate women.

And sometime you'll have to explain to me what feminism is all about because apparently I've been lied to. I've always been told by the media and teachers in school that feminism is about the social, economic, and political equality of the sexes. Yet you are telling me that it's about women working for only women and that men need to get their own movement. But....that's all off topic so we'll dive into that in another thread sometime.

[DebJ]

164. Re car insurance: in Pa, women pick up the tab for men's higher accident rates.

Would be nice if men just started paying attention to the road when they are driving
and slowed down.
But in Pa, we ladies get to pick up the tab. On our lower salaries.

[LittleBlue]

166. Think about what would happen if women were discouraged from having children

We would cease to continue as a species.

Yeah... let's not go there. Each one of us cost money to bring into the world. If anything, direct your anger at the corporate healthcare mafia for charging small fortunes to provide care for something as common as childbirth.