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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHow an 8-year-old girl got some sexist kids' books yanked from the bookstore
How my 8-year-old daughter got some sexist kids' books yanked from the bookstoreBY CONSTANCE COOPER
Our family was browsing in a bookstore when my daughter called out, Mama, you have to look at this! Usually this is a happy cry, but not this time.
She'd found a pair of books. One was Boys Only: How to Survive (Almost) Anything! Its cover showed a boy confronting a crocodile. The other book was the girls' version. Its cover had one girl fluffing her hair while wearing a rhinestone-studded miniskirt, and another riding on a zip line while talking on the phone.
It wasn't until my daughter compared the tables of contents, though, that she became irate to the point of tears. In case you might find this as morbidly fascinating as I do, I will reproduce the pages here:
Warning!
How to Survive a Shark Attack
How to Survive in a Forest
How to Survive Frostbite
How to Survive a Plane Crash
How to Survive in a Desert
How to Avoid a Polar Bear Attack
How to Survive a Flash Flood
How to Treat a Broken Leg
How to Survive an Earthquake
How to Survive a Forest Fire
How to Survive in a Whiteout
How to Survive a Zombie Invasion
How to Survive a Snake Bite
How to Survive If Your Parachute Fails
How to Survive a Croc Attack
How to Survive a Lightning Strike
How to Survive a T-Rex
How to Survive Whitewater Rapids
How to Survive a Sinking Ship
How to Survive a Vampire Attack
How to Survive an Avalanche
How to Survive a Tornado
How to Survive Quicksand
How to Survive a Fall
How to Survive a Swarm of Bees
How to Survive in Space
Warning!
How to Survive a BFF Fight
How to Survive Football Trials
How to Survive a Breakout
How to Show You're Sorry
How to Have the Best Sleepover Ever
How to Look Your Best for a Party
How to Survive Siblings
Scary Survival Dos and Don'ts
How to Handle Becoming Rich
How to Keep Stuff Secret
How to Survive Tests
How to Survive Shyness
How to Handle Sudden Stardom
More Stardom Survival Tips
How to Survive a Camping Trip
How to Survive a Fashion Disaster
How to Teach Your Cat to Sit
How to Turn a No into a Yes
Top Tips for Speech-making
How to Survive Embarrassment
How to Create a Diversion
How to Survive a Crush
Seaside Survival
How to Soothe Sunburn
How to Pick Perfect Sunglasses
Surviving a Zombie Attack
How to Spot a Frenemy
Brilliant Boredom Busters
How to Survive Truth or Dare
How to Beat Bullies
How to Be a Brilliant Baby-Sitter
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
She insisted we had to tell the manager how unfair these books were, and a nearby employee heard her and asked if she could help. Kudos to Half Price Books: the employee was horrified. She agreed that the books were offensive, and although we hadn't requested it, she yanked all copies (boy and girl) from the shelf. She also gave my daughter a coupon, which she used on a YA fantasy novel.
links and more:
http://www.constancecooper.com/2013/10/how-my-8-year-old-daughter-got-some.html
pnwmom
(108,914 posts)Constance Cooper is the author
and her daughter is an inspiration.
peace, kp
cali
(114,904 posts)kudos all around
Ian David
(69,059 posts)petronius
(26,576 posts)If only for the hopelessness...
But seriously, good job by your daughter (and you, by extension). Even though the boys' version is tongue in cheek and (I hope to god!) few boys will have to deal with that stuff, the stereotypes displayed there are hideous...
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Hayabusa
(2,135 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)I had it on the dining table so he could watch basketball. I wanted to watch, too. So I made him sit down if he was gonna be right in front of it. He was really good about that.
Now I have one that I have taught to lay down on command so he doesn't pester me all night in bed. He gets it right about 3/4 of the time.
EX500rider
(10,448 posts)Grow wings?
Pray?
?
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)Clearly it's sexist, but I dunno... Not sure it's any worse than the 'princess' or 'GI Joe' aisle of any given big.box.mart with a toy section.
I'm open to anyone who might be willing to spell it out for me.
TYY
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Toymakers do not label the products by gender. They're color-coded and yes, clearly targeted... but that clarity is really a product of a whole collection of cultural preconceptions we have already, that the toymakers just capitalize (literally) upon. Hasbro, Mattel, Lego, these companies may market by gender, but they will never label their product by gender, as doing so would pare away a potential market (a lesson that people like myself have been teaching Hasbro for three years now )
On the other hand, these books do expressly segregate by gender. One is "for boys," the other is "for girls." And unlike toys, where really anyone can pick it up and get the same functionality out of it, the content of these books is obviously very different. Like... grotesquely different.
That's the difference. Targeted marketing based on assumed divisions vs. directly segregated marketing.
It's the fact that they are books that are expressing that certain ideas are only for boys while others are only for girls that makes this especially egregious. I'm not exactly thrilled about the marketing of toys, either.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)I think I see what you mean. The difference being that toy stores may or may not actually label their aisles specifically by gender; thereby defining an expected male/female outcome. (Any kid can buy from whichever aisle attracts them.)
So, marketing to genders in such an obviously sexist manner is not acceptable in 2013...especially in books.. or is that true?
What about books that are marketed by gender? (Nancy Drew, Hardy Boys.) There are millions of them. That's how I see these comic books; one example of millions of other stereotypically gender based book marketing examples. Sexist without a doubt but there it is...
How do you pull these two comic books from the shelves without acknowledging the others? And what about sexism in video games, music, etc.
I guess my point is that sexism is rampant. I suppose pulling these two books could be conceived as a good start?... or is it really just a drop in the bucket?
TYY
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)The story here is more about the awareness of the eight year old girl, and the reinforcement of that awareness by the salesperson.
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)TYY
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)very active and accomplished in her stories. they are both treat as humans not gender. because they each represent a gender and reach out to a particular gender does not make them sexist nor unreadable for the other gender.
JBoy
(8,021 posts)After I'd finished my Hardy Boys'. The books were similar - a little more physical action in the Hardy Boys, but both series described adventure and showcased the resourcefulness of the protagonists.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)especially when they brought the two together.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)preferred by girls biologically and evo psych could tell us why. :vomit:
Orrex
(63,057 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)they are.
but go figure.
cute
Orrex
(63,057 posts)Our hospital was pretty good about it. Lots of pastels but mostly yellows and greens. Of course, family and friends tended toward blue baby clothes for our boys, so...
One thing that I recall from our older son's very early days is that we made a point of carting him down both the "boys" and "girls" aisles. He showed NO interest in "girls" toys but practically burst out of the seatbelt to get his hands on HotWheels.
I know that this doesn't mean that boys inherently prefer boys' toys, but we were really surprised by the stark difference. We repeated the experiment a bunch of times with the same result.
On the other hand, when his brother was born he wanted a doll to have a baby of his own, so we let him pick one out, and he took to carting it around in a stroller when we went for walks.
Kids! Who can figure them?
Orrex
(63,057 posts)In my entire life I have never seen a Barbie ad with a boy in it or a GI Joe ad with a girl in it. I'm not even sure that I've ever seen a HotWheels or Matchbox ad featuring a girl.
Although they seldom specifically say "for girls," these products are undeniably marketed along predictable gender lines, to the point that the distinction between "targeted" and "marketed" is trivial and academic. Even if the manufacturers don't target boys or girls specifically, the retail stores certainly do.
In short, the absence of an explicit "girls only" or "boys only" label is simply a technicality, in the same way that we might say that our society is race-neutral because we don't have "whites only" water fountains anymore.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)Shrike47
(6,913 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Ditto if the books were aimed at adults and not young children.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Nice....
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)bullshit - e.g. complaining about 'Beloved' because the themes of racism and slavery are "uncomfortable."
But in this case it was the child herself who raised an objection, and an understandable one. And it's not as if this is a book that teaches kids about some ugly realities of the world they live in - rather, it promotes stereotyping and general ignorance, which is the opposite of what any good parent should want their child to learn.
Erose999
(5,624 posts)and I went on to a BA in English and I plan on becoming a librarian.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)All I was saying, is that it's not as if some great classic was taken off the shelves here. So I'm not gonna whine about it.
Logical
(22,457 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)I have no power to "ban" any book, nor would I want to even if I did - I like books, and I think even bad ones have the right to exist. But the situation in the OP is hardly "book burning" or any such ridiculousness.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)An item's position in a market place predicated in part on social awareness is not by any means "banning", it is simply your market place at work.
A company's own decisions to carry or not carry an item is also a wholly separate concept than banning.
rug
(82,333 posts)When she brought it to school, the teacher yelled at her and took it away.
I told her she should let her daddy buy her books in the future.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)hardcover
(255 posts)No matter how much we don't like those books, it's still banning books. Where do we draw the line on which books should be banned?
whopis01
(3,463 posts)The retailer has a right to decide what books they will and won't stock. It is their bookshelf and they get to decide what books go on that shelf.
Choosing not to carry a product in a store is not the same as banning that product.
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)Removing books from the forums one goes to in order to acquire books is cool, so long as it is not technically banning. All the better when it has the effect of banning, but we can claim we do not support "banning" books.
whopis01
(3,463 posts)Does the retailer have no ability to choose what goes on the shelves?
What if they had a book that wasn't selling well? Just because it hasn't sold yet doesn't mean that someone isn't interested in reading it - so we better not "ban" that book by pulling it off the shelf, right?
If this were a public library, I would agree with you. But it is a private business. You simply can not force a business to carry a product which they don't want to carry. Or force them to drop a product which they wish to carry.
What you can do is shop there or shop elsewhere - and you can let them know exactly why you are making that choice.
Throd
(7,208 posts)cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)The OP is experiencing all the excitement of a good book-banning, and also exaggerating.
The fact that the facts don't match the tone and headline do not make the OP better. Just rotten in more directions.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 3, 2013, 05:07 PM - Edit history (1)
insulting this is. your daughter was minding her own business. she was not out to find an issue. and there, in front of her face, we have a publication that was ALL about insulting your daughter and a whole gender.
hugz to this girl. she found her voice. and at a young age. she recognized a problem, and at a young age. now she will see it for the rest of her life. we cannot undue what we learn and how the world sees us. she lost that innocence.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)have loverboy grill you up the fresh catch. gotta take a couple spices, lemon, wrap it up in foil and sit on a fire. hubby is a great cook. ya, fuck those roles.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)He and my brother were actually musing amongst themselves about opening a restaurant together with LB cooking and bro managing the business side. Sadly, it won't be happening any time soon; the numbers just aren't there right now.
He did try a recipe like you described but his involved stuffing the fish with lemon and herbs then packing it in kosher salt before wrapping in foil. After it grilled the salt was a crust you broke off; it pulled the aromas of the herbs and lemon through every flaky piece. OH MY GOD! I married well.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Talked about starting business and doing the cooking. I take the finances and manage the outside part of restaurant. Play off our strengths.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)This is important stuff.
Silent3
(14,961 posts)The first thing people will probably notice is that the topics for girls seem so comparatively wimpy to the topics for boys, but I also think the girls' book sounds a lot more practical (where it isn't being frivolous) and grounded in reality, with the boys' book concentrating on rare or even impossible (vampire attack?) situations, as if a boys' life should be all about throwing himself into crazy, dangerous situations.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)or fantastical crazy stuff, in books for children.
Do you really think my comment implied that in any way, shape, or form?
The problem is making it mostly fantastical danger stuff for boys, and mostly frivolous and mundane for girls, instead of a balance of each for both.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Certainly fantastical. Dangerous? I would assume so, based on the fact that vampires are involved, but I have heard that vampires these days have become somewhat wimpy.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Who precisely voiced that particular premise?
dembotoz
(16,708 posts)yes i do think the books are awful
but removal from the shelves makes me shudder
the solution is
BETTER GIRLS BOOKS
nancy drew and the
hardy boys were written a long time ago
the hardy boy books were dated when i read them in the late 50's
i loved them but they were dateFd.
Authors will write what sells--everyone likes to eat and buy stuff.
i don't think girls got a bad shake in the harry potter books
in hunger games the lead character was female-confess i did not read or watch the books or movie.
What books are out there.
i know what to buy for my grand son
not so sure for my grand daughter.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)I eagerly scoured the library shelves looking for ones I had not yet read.
Maybe not great literature but books like that inspired a lifelong love of reading in me.
JBoy
(8,021 posts)Their friend wasn't just "Biff Hooper", he was always described as their "lanky friend, Biff Hooper".
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Or chubby, or rotund, or stout.
God I loved those books.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)and thinking, this is the most exciting book I have ever read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/While_the_Clock_Ticked
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)That happens; children a reflection of their parents.
I would prefer to have heard that the girl, rather than be shocked and upset, would have said something like, "look Mommy, more of that gender specific marketing crap we talked about!"
Art, including literature, including children's literature, is a reflection of culture.
True, it also reinforces cultural habits, but at least these are books, that can be read.
Please take this girl the the news stand and see what she thinks of Vogue and Elle magazines, etc.
Upton
(9,709 posts)lets just ban and rip off the shelves every book we don't like..
Does this mean it's okay for the children of Christian fundamentalists to go into stores and demand that books on evolution not be sold?
I'm not comfortable with book banning in any form
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)And we have the right as consumers to take our business elsewhere if they refuse to sell those books we want.
I understood why CVS didn't want to deal with the Boston Bomber stuff. You just go down the street and buy it elsewhere.
Now libraries....I think that's a different story.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)she is very powerful!
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's bullshit.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)book. And many books are available that aren't in bookstores.
Mariana
(14,830 posts)Neither did the mother. Read the OP, please
"She agreed that the books were offensive, and although we hadn't requested it, she yanked all copies (boy and girl) from the shelf."
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)Agreed.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)no speaking up for her. not that she did a single damn thing but speak up. learn young. SOME men just do not want to hear what she has to say.
just great....
Throd
(7,208 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)They are all powerful, but marketing execs who push incredibly biased material on us are weak victims!
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)That said, I wouldn't buy it myself (if my daughter wanted either one I would for her though - sure she could read beyond the words 'boy' when it came to zombie survival).
I don't see the books as more stereotyping than I do some folks here when it comes to other things.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)The Daring Book for Girls the Dangerous Book for Boys: (I have the boys book)
http://www.dangerousbookforboys.com/
Erose999
(5,624 posts)distasteful.
I agree that those books are sexist, but I don't think letting them be pulled from the shelves is the right response. Maybe you could have written the author/publisher, or tried some other way that would educate rather than just censor.
Silent3
(14,961 posts)While it's generally good to encourage the free flow of information, real censorship involves either government restrictions or unchecked private intimidation to block self expression.
Private citizens are hardly obligated to facilitate or encourage speech or other expression that they find distasteful or immoral, however.
Erose999
(5,624 posts)they get to have those removed as well? Simply taking stuff off a store shelf does little to help our agenda. The books are available at every other store in town and you've done nothing to challenge/refute the ideology behind them. A better idea would be to organize an awareness campaign about the books and shame the author/publisher into changing or discontinuing them.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)just not carried at that bookstore any more. I bet I can find other books they don't carry also.
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)But this kind of hyperbole is a bit much.
Counterpoint PA
(275 posts)apologize but not boys.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)carry something, so be it.
Good for this girl.
If someone wants the book, order it online or ask the bookstore to order it for you (many will do such a thing).
FrodosPet
(5,169 posts)This is one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" moments for them.
Perhaps, as Trotsky said, the production and distribution of books and other information products should be nationalized. Then product availability would be determined by people hired by democratically elected leaders performing scientific analysis of the nation's knowledge and entertainment needs, and not based on capitalist market forces.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Who acts like that? And brags about it??? Really?
I have more objection to various publications than most, but I have never complained to a bookstore about carrying books I don't like because it is Westbrook Baptist Church type behavior.
It is what disgusting, horrible people do.
That poor child may well grow up to be a real jerk, through no fault of her own.
Mojo Electro
(362 posts)I was beginning to think practically everyone on this site agreed with this utter nonsense!
Mariana
(14,830 posts)She [the employee] agreed that the books were offensive, and although we hadn't requested it, she yanked all copies (boy and girl) from the shelf.
kcr
(15,295 posts)There's some righteous anger going on.
I love how a girl speaking out about sexism in a book, bad. But someone comes on DU and talks about how they switched Anne Coulter's books on the bookshelves making them harder to find, or brags about how they successfully got Fox News turned off somewhere, and nothing but praise! Speaking out about sexism isn't respected here.
Mariana
(14,830 posts)Why the fuck do they feel the need to slander an eight year old child?
Skip Intro
(19,768 posts)this meant to keep my nephew and his friends out of her room
I had a friend when I was a kid who had a little shed in his parents backyard that we all hung out in that had all kinds of signs on it, including one that read, "No Girls Allowed."
That is typical of children. Many girls find boys gross and many boys find girls gross. Most grow out of it, I guess.
I don't see those books as offensive. Even if I did, who the hell am I to decide for everyone in my town that they can't see, purchase or own them because I find them distasteful?
Not a good lesson for your daughter, imho.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)I bet it never happened or the mom put her up to it. Something just sounds fishy about an 8-year-old offended by a book like this. I'm guessing the mom saw the book and she was offended.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,053 posts)The girls have babysitting, fights with friends, bullies, speech making, dealing with sunburns, etc.
The boys have surviving shark attacks, polar bear attacks, parachute failure, lightning strikes, vampire attacks, zombie invasions.
Okay, actually they both have zombie invasions for some strange reasons.
But seems like the girls book are a lot more practical than the boys book.
I don't know. The story itself I find annoying. Not a big fan of pulling books off shelves.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Fundamentally, boys and girls tend to have different interests, and promoting reading requires different (with some overlap - apparently zombie attacks are a non-gendered topic of interest) approaches.
Part of the reasons that boys aren't succeeding in school is that the curriculum is limited to that with which their female teachers are comfortable.