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Tue Oct 1, 2013, 12:57 PM

Update on the bikers who terrorized a New York City Family.

26 year old Jeremiah Mieses was paralyzed after being run over by the SUV driver (in self defense).

http://nypost.com/2013/10/01/cops-bust-bike-thug/

http://www.eagletribune.com/latestnews/x934954011/Lawrence-man-paralyzed-in-NYC-road-rage-incident-caught-on-video

http://gothamist.com/2013/10/01/police_hunt_two_motorcyclists_seen.php

The video the thugs did not want you to see:

http://www.carscoops.com/2013/10/the-footage-that-nyc-bikers-didn-want.html


The NYPD have been going after these thugs for a few years.
None of the riders in custody are being co-operative.

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Reply Update on the bikers who terrorized a New York City Family. (Original post)
Dawson Leery Oct 2013 OP
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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:09 PM

1. This made me want to puke:

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Justice-For-Jay-Meezee/411664345601619

There was a comment stating that this biker kid is a 'victim' of 'tragic violence', insinuating that the driver of the SUV intentionally ran over the little fuck.

Too bad he's paralyzed. Maybe he should have made better choices in life.

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Response to Wait Wut (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:12 PM

3. Thugs such as this serve no purpose.

These bastards do not obey the rules of the road. They are the result of bad parenting.
This thug should be charged too.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:23 PM

9. FWIW, I've seen countless kids become fucked-up adults even with excellent parenting...

So it's kind of a sweeping statement to make...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #9)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 07:37 PM

48. Yeah, it is

We all have choices in life, and some of us make all the wrong ones (most of make at least SOME of the wrong ones, but there are those few that just go all out).

Everyone knows families where one kid goes wrong and the others do great.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Reply #3)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:05 PM

69. If Lien had had an automatic assault weapon and sprayed the entire group, would he have been

"standing his ground?"

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Response to kelliekat44 (Reply #69)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:23 PM

93. If it were an automatic rifle

it would be an assault rifle, not an 'assault weapon'. If the SUV driver sprayed the entire 'group', he would now be in custody.

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Response to Wait Wut (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:21 PM

8. These bikers are clearly a bunch of hooning idiots

and their subsequent assault and destruction of the Rover only made the situation worse...

But I still have to say imo that you post is a bit harsh, if that dude is truly paralyzed...This is something totally avoided with some common sense, cooler heads and a sliver of maturity, which in some degree was clearly lacking from both parties....

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:32 PM

15. It isn't harsh.

I've lost too many (biker) friends to negligent drivers. This is not 'negligence'. They were terrorizing a young family that had a 2 year old in the car. I have no sympathy for the bank robber that gets shot after throwing old ladies to the floor. I have no sympathy for the terrorists that kill innocents. I have no sympathy for gangs that scare the fuck out of innocent people just for the thrill and the chance to make a YouTube video and end up getting run over.

What is 'too harsh' is the sickening support this little punk is getting. Oh, and apparently only one of this kid's 'friends' stopped to help him. One. And, they still posted the video to YouTube, conveniently leaving out the part where they trashed the SUV, dragged the driver out and beat/slashed him while his wife and child were screaming in the car.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:13 PM

25. They are very lucky none of them was shot and killed. n/t

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #25)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:21 PM

28. And just how many would he have gotten before being killed himself??

It's fascinating to see how many people here and elsewhere say the introduction of guns by one or both parties would have made this situation ANY better...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #28)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:33 PM

29. What if the NYPD had been doing the shooting?

This time I would be on the side of the NYPD. If they had been there they should have used WHATEVER level of force was necessary to subdue and arrest everyone of these bikers, up to and including deadly force.

Bikers who terrorize the roads and streets like this pack did need to be taught EXTREMELY harsh lessons.

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #29)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:11 AM

146. somebody would be dead in that case

or did I misunderstand?

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #29)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:20 PM

224. A sad fact but often true...

"...lessons not learned in blood are soon forgotten."

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #28)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 04:13 AM

187. well probuably if he had shot five or six of them the rest would have run away

 

I carry sixteen in my glock, two spare mags and a baby glock with nine on my ankle, so figure thats fifty three rounds of .40 cal. Thats enough to make a dent in a group this size.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #187)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 03:53 PM

244. That also assumes none of the others would be armed...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #244)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 05:36 PM

260. or that the shots would not have hit some other innocent person

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Response to JI7 (Reply #260)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 05:54 PM

266. better to hope they are not going to beat you and mayby rape your wife then

 

Sorry but its dumb to hope the thugs might not give you a kicking or worse.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #266)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 06:05 PM

267. no, he should have ran them over as he did , the gun nut thing is mostly fantasy

situations like where Gabby Giffords was shot did have people who had guns . but in real life situations it's not like the fantasy of gun nuts. people don't know where shots are coming from, who gets shot etc.

more likely the baby would have shot herself .

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Response to JI7 (Reply #267)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 06:40 PM

269. and yet when he was stuck later in traffic they dragged him out and beat him

 

Glad your willing to be beaten or your family attacked i am not. You attack me or my family then you have set the parameters of my response.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #269)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 06:52 PM

271. if he had a gun there is more chance his daughter would have ended up killing herself or someone

else with it.

i would have been ok with him running over more of the thugs.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #271)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 06:59 PM

272. yeah cause his daughter would have grabbed his gun and shot herself

 

You do know there are millions of households with guns that have never had a child shoot themselves or someone else. You can defend your family your way and i will defend my family as i see fit.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #272)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:02 PM

273. happens a lot more than the fantasy about gun nut heroes

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Response to JI7 (Reply #273)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:04 PM

274. nope.

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #274)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:10 PM

275. gun nuts always see things and think about how they would have been the hero with their guns

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Response to JI7 (Reply #275)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:19 PM

276. lol, or people who are trained and have experience look at it and use it as a what if

 

And whether it would be a shoot or dont shoot scenario. I love how you colour everything as gun nuts, this is about defending your family from thugs that want to do harm. Would you rather have taken the beating rather than defend yourself, or even worse taken a beating and your family harmed than have used lethal force to protect them.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #276)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:24 PM

279. it is gun nuttery to always view things that happen and think about how they would have been the her

hero with their guns.

when more likely the 2 year old would have shot herself or someone else before if they had a gun lying around .

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #244)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 05:52 PM

265. yeah its better to get beaten and slashed and mayby your family attacked

 

Just in case the thugs might be armed, i guess you hope the thugs are good intentioned and would not kill your family, me i would rather have a fighting chance.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #244)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 08:57 PM

300. If there's one situation where I don't want to invite return fire

it's when I'm surrounded by thirty people with my two year old close by and we're sitting in an object containing a gas tank.

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Response to NoGOPZone (Reply #300)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 11:56 AM

333. depends on whether those thirty people are determined to harm you and your family

 

Its the age old conundrum do i fight back and still get hurt or hope the guy about to attack me will change his mind and be kind. Dont know if i would be willing to bet that these guys are just going to give me a stern talking to, would you.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #333)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 06:09 PM

341. I don't know if I'd be willing to bet

that thirty people who've already shown a willingness to be violent are going to scatter instead of return fire if I shoot first. The driver handled the situation well, the only thing I question is him getting off the Hudson and exiting at W. 178th Street where he almost immediately got caught in city traffic

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Response to NoGOPZone (Reply #341)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 06:22 PM

343. he did good until the bit were he was dragged out and beaten and cut

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #343)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 06:30 PM

344. no, he came out ahead, so he did good period

He gave out more than he took and his family didn't get hurt. I would have taken my chance on getting to the GWB though.

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Response to NoGOPZone (Reply #344)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:30 PM

348. sorry getting beaten and cut is not coming out ahead, the guys that did it only

 

Scuffed their boots, bruised their knuckles and maby blunted a blade. I am sorry but in my book thats not a win. Ymmv

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #348)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 07:47 PM

349. you do realize

that one of the bikers is paralyzed due to the driver's actions. In my book that's preferable to 'beaten and cut'

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Response to NoGOPZone (Reply #349)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:35 PM

350. yeah but makes no difference to the driver he was still beaten and cut

 

You really would be okay with some thug beating you in front of your family, if so go right ahead.

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #350)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:45 PM

351. try to do better than blatant strawmen

and while we're assuming we know what's on the driver's mind, I mention that he'd rather be in his condition than that of the person he ran over.

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Response to NoGOPZone (Reply #351)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:51 PM

353. well thats you i would rather not have been beaten but thats me.

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #353)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:57 PM

354. another strawman nt

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Response to NoGOPZone (Reply #354)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:58 PM

355. lol nope,

 

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Response to NoGOPZone (Reply #341)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 06:16 PM

370. No choice

His front right tire was on the rim

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #333)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 05:37 PM

368. In this...

...particular situation, it appears to me that whether Mr Lian had a gun or not the rational choice was to do exactly what he did; flee. He was surrounded by a wolf-pack of maybe 50 to 60 riders and had he had you arsenal and used it, chances are the wolves would return fire whether by using their own artillery or simply overwhelm the driver. You can only shoot so fast & accurately in Hollywood movies. In real life, well, it's real and there are no Rambo's to take out a 50 (or more) bad guys to good guys situation.

So please, stick to the wet dreams -- guys like you are exactly the reason I favor a gun-ban.

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Response to RedFury (Reply #368)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 05:52 PM

369. yeah cause they are going to rush you in the face of gunfire

 

Dont know if you have ever seen what happens when someone starts shooting but its not everyone running towards them, and remember the guy got beaten and cut and was lucky he did not sustain permanent damage. You may wish to hope that if this happens to you that you will come out okay, me i would rather have have the bad guy facing down my glock when he smashes my window and tries to drag me out. Ymmv

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #369)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 07:59 PM

376. Not a GLOCK!!!! They might if it is in a caliber that starts with a 4.



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Response to oneshooter (Reply #376)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 08:35 PM

378. well both my principal and my backup are .40 and i use the old hydroshock. lol

 

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Response to loli phabay (Reply #378)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 11:16 PM

379. My prefrence is a SIG220, 45 w/230gr JHP.

My backup is a 45lc carbine in the truck.

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Response to MicaelS (Reply #25)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:03 AM

140. It happened in New York. In Texas, shots would have been fired.

But the bikers know that so they would not have been so wild in Texas.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #140)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:05 AM

142. Correct....

 

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #140)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 02:56 PM

340. I disagree. In Texas, the bikers would have been armed too and we would have had a shootout

Guess who would have felt like they had the upperhand in a firefight situation? The several dozen bikers, or the single guy in the car or the two adults in the car?

I think guns would have made the bikers even more aggressive.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #340)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 08:54 PM

352. and very likely the 2 year old or her mother would have been killed also

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Response to JI7 (Reply #352)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 11:49 PM

361. Except that stuff like that doesn't happen down here. N/T

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #340)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 11:47 PM

360. Doesn't work that way in real life, only in the movies.

In real life most armed people, even those illegally armed, try to avoid gunfights because they know that getting into a gunfight is a good way to get dead. The anti-gun people like to imagine a mass gunfight with dozens of people all shooting at each other, like a movie barroom brawl, only with guns. Real world - doesn't happen.

All the biker clubs that I have seen here in Texas, even the outlaw ones, don't act foolish in traffic. I have never felt threatened by any group of bikers.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #360)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 12:08 AM

362. A quick search on texas and shootout between groups yields a lot of hits.

Doesn't seem as uncommon as you are claiming.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #362)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 12:18 AM

363. Multiple hits from only two incidents listed.

The first two hits refered to the Branch Dividian seige in Waco. The other hits all referred to Evan Ebel who was a suspect in two Colorado murders and was killed in a shootout with Texas Law Enforcement.

No cases of everybody in a crowd drawing a gun and shooting.

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Response to GreenStormCloud (Reply #363)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 12:29 AM

364. There are 82 million hits on scores of pages. First few pages are of those two incidents

Once you get past pages 8-10, more incidents start coming up.

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Response to stevenleser (Reply #364)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 08:26 AM

365. Here is page 11:

Nov 25, 2009 - Milwaukee outshot Texas in the scoreless first period 10-6.
I don't think a basketbal game qualifies.


www.texasranger.org/history/BriefHistory1.htm‎
Homer Garrison, Jr., long-time director of the Texas Department of Public ... would serve to reinforce Mexico's claim to Texas and act as a buffer between the .... took part in the ill-fated Mier Expedition, in which a group of Texans invaded Mexico. ... Hardin served a lengthy prison sentence, only to die in a shoot-out in El Paso ...

That's a history page about the Texas Rangers. The shoot-out referenced happened in 1895. That is hardly current.


www.adamwilt.com/HD/4cams-part2.html‎
Updated 2007.06.30 - belated credit to Zane for his Texas Shootout badge ... Omega Broadcast Group (omegaaustin.com) provided facilities, monitors, ... should have done the same with the HVX200, setting its sharpness between -4 and 0 on ...

A comparison of camcorders. No guns.


www.reporternews.com/news/2008/oct/19/west-texas-shootout/
Oct 19, 2008 - 4 West Texas A&M University, 52-35, before 19,380 fans in a Lone Star Conference South Division ... It was a much-hyped game between two of the top-ranked teams in Division. .... Scripps Interactive Newspapers Group

Another basketball game.


www.redstxshootout.com/‎
Red started this group for the "Boys!", meaning ... They first started as a lunch/dinner between Red and a few friends. After a few ... Welcome to Texas Shoot Out!

Professional wrestling.


swimswam.com/tag/michael-andrew/‎
Jun 10, 2013 - Michael Andrew to Compete at The Fastest Man in Texas Shootout ... (or tied) over the past year between the short course and long course seasons. ... Santo Condorelli Breaks 17-18 National Age Group Record in 50 Free.

A swimming meet.


www.foxsanantonio.com/‎
Insuring Texas' Future ... Texas Headlines .... Waste Watch tracks whether local, state and federal governments or any groups are using your money wisely...or ...

That is a link to Fox new in San Antonio. The shootout was NOT between groups of people. It was ONE criminal in a convenience store who killed a deputy sheriff.


www.brownwoodtx.com/‎
Grubbs issues statement on death of West Texas deputy ... Little Dude Ranch's Ashley McCowen guides a group of children through a "tasting party" Thursday ...

A politician makes a statement about the death of the deputy that is linked above.


PDF]
Co-opetition PowerPoint Slides
users.uoa.gr/~atsaoussi/Nalebuff.pdf‎
by B Nalebuff - ‎Cited by 481 - ‎Related articles
interplay between competition .... What's Your. Added Value? Egocentric vs. Allocentric. Individual vs. Group. It's a Wonderful Life ... Texas Shoot-Out. » One side ...


2013 Texas Shootout Rules and Procedures - Sport Ngin
assets.ngin.com/.../Texas_Shootout_Procedures_and_Rules__1_2013.do...‎
Aug 31, 2013 - 10th Annual TEXAS SHOOTOUT ..... Noisemakers are not allowed in the viewpoint (upstairs enclosed area) between the rinks and the lobby ...

These two appear to be the same thing. Some sort of annual competition.

You have failed. I am not going to wade through 82 million hits. It is now up to you to find incidents of large groups of people shooting it out that happened recently in Texas. We have only had legal concealed carry since 1995 so anything before that would be illegal carry.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #8)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:12 PM

52. Sorry, but those weren't "bikers", they were punks on crotch-rockets, Enduros & 4-wheelers....

As a retired *real* BIKER, who rode Harley Davidsons (and one "Trumpet" **Triumph** for a few months), and rode with some other *real* BIKERS from some infamous 1%er MCs like the Pagans, Outlaws, Chosen Few, Highway Men, Hells Angels & Black Pistons, along with some benevolent MCs such as the Viet Nam Vets MC, Crusaders for Christ, and helped charter a chapter of Iraq War Vets after the *first* Iraq war, it just chaps my ass to see shit-stains like these called "bikers".

"Assholes on Motorbikes" would suit me just fine, please & thank you

Peace,

Ghost

There are some BEAUTIFUL illustrations from Dave Mann in this video: Panheads Forever

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #52)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:12 PM

110. You hit the nail on the head

with your observation. They are not Bikers, 'Assholes on MotorBikes' is a perfect discription.

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #52)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:37 AM

162. great song

and yes, it is clearly the incorrect term.

a gang on motorbikes

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #52)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 11:44 AM

212. Just call them "hoonigans"

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Response to Ghost in the Machine (Reply #52)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 10:33 PM

304. would be funny to see a confrontation between the NJ punks and a large group of real bikers

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Response to Wait Wut (Reply #1)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:07 PM

89. Look at this YouTube uploaded by this kid...

You'll see wreckless and rude behavior, lawbreaking, this kid was gonna live a short life.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #89)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 11:57 AM

214. Apparently, there were a lot of other videos...

...the little gang took them all down when they posted the video of their 'friend' getting run over so they could claim they were just a bunch of good kids out for a ride. Several of those videos were already copied and reposted online. A comment on the FB page noted that none of the bikes had license plates. I'm sure there's a good reason for that. Maybe they all got stolen by some bad guys that drive Range Rovers that take their families on a Sunday drive on a beautiful day. I'm sure it has nothing to do with them wanting to avoid being reported to the cops.

Some of those bikes are damned expensive. Those kids must be bankers. Many of them apparently have children. Great role models for the kids!

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Response to Wait Wut (Reply #214)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 01:14 PM

218. Meezee would have pulled that video, too...

Or his family, but he's in a coma and nobody probably has his password to youtube.

None of this is good. These kids, who then become parents, have no direction and no investments and probably spend all their free cash on these bikes without a thought toward savings or taking care of family, etc.

Maybe that's too judgmental but I was once young and was a little bit that way.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #89)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 11:01 PM

306. Doesn't look like the same guy...



Nose is different...but I guess it could be...

TYY

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Response to TeeYiYi (Reply #306)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 11:12 PM

309. Hmmmmm.

It's his youtube channel and his music, but the youtube description suggest it's a video of his friend.

In any event, news reports say Meise has 16 tickets and a revoked license.

If that's not him, that's probably behavior he embraces.

And if it is him (both have tattooed upper right arms) maybe he looks different from being so terribly swollen.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #309)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 11:26 PM

312. Yeah, I'm just not sure...

It definitely could be the swelling.

The guy in that video is extremely talented. Full of energy, spirit and a zest for life. A leader... I truly hope it's not him.

TYY

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Response to TeeYiYi (Reply #312)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 06:30 PM

371. For his own maybe

But certainly not for others who he brazenly confronts on the road. Don't wish him any harm, but if it was between him and one of his "road kills" through reckless driving, I sure as hell hope it wasn't the other driver that suffered the consequences.

Want to show off and pull stunts? Go right ahead -- there are plenty of race tracks that will let you do that after you sign a disclaimer for any harm you may suffer. I sure as hell don't want/need to sign one of those on my way to work and/or the grocery shop.

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Response to TeeYiYi (Reply #306)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 06:51 PM

345. it isn't the same guy

J Meezee is the one in the hospital that put up that video of his buddy "Tat" and it was likely Meezee (Mieses) who was doing the filming. That's what he wrote in the description of the video.

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Response to Wait Wut (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 10:23 AM

206. Good grief!


Look at some of the commentary! Pretty soon it will read:

"This biker was on his way back with his fellow bikers from helping the homeless, volunteering at animal shelters, and dropping meals off for the disabled eldery citizens when this viscious thug, with his wife and little girl in tow, visciously ran him down maniacally laughing all the way..."

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Response to mnmoderatedem (Reply #206)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 11:48 AM

213. No kidding.

I guess it's the kid's aunt that set it up. The comments from her are particularly disgusting. She blames everything on the driver of the SUV, referring to the punk as 'her baby' and talking about what a sweet kid he is and what a great heart he has. Not one drop of sympathy for the family that was terrorized by her little angel. Not one drop of remorse. Clueless idiot.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:12 PM

2. I don't understand how a driver in an SUV can run down a person on a motorcycle

in "self defense." Was the motorcyclist shooting at him?

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:13 PM

4. You need to watch the video

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 07:29 PM

47. Which video? There are like 80 of them.

I got tired of watching motorcycle footage. I wish the OP would have linked directly to the incident.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #47)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 03:34 AM

184. the OP should have linked directly to it, but here...



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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #184)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 08:20 AM

196. Thank you!

Wow, scary. I would have done the same thing to protect my loved ones.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #196)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:04 PM

221. What was scary about that video BEFORE the SUV ran over a bunch of people?


Very stupid and dangerous driving on the part of the cyclists. The one who slowed down in front of the SUV was particularly stupid and lucky he didn't get seriously injured.

But you can not see anybody doing anything after that except for those running to help the downed rider.

SUV driver claims they were beating on the SUV and slashing his tires, but we don't see that. We so no dents or scratches during the chase afterwards. And we sure as heck don't see any flat tires. So he is flat out lying about that.

Had the riders simply chased him down until they could get the police, the SUV driver would now be in jail. None of the riders would be in jail. But the one who was trying to rescue the downed rider, who wasn't even paying attention to the SUV, would still be paralyzed forever.

So please. To what are you referring when you say, "wow, scary"? Since you "would have done the same thing," it has to be something before he did that same thing.


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Response to ieoeja (Reply #221)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:47 PM

230. It must have been another video then (there are so many)

Where they surrounded the vehicle, slamming helmets into the window (breaking the driver side window). At that point, I would have done the same thing to protect myself, which includes driving over the other assailants who were in the way.

You bring the fight to me with those odds, I'm escaping by whatever means possible, which includes bring the fight to you so that my escape is possible.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #230)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:49 PM

231. That was way after he already ran over one of them.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #231)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:55 PM

234. Yeah, I just checked (yet) another video.

It's hard to parse all of this together with so many different videos.

So, with that, I can still see him being intimidated when surrounded after hitting the first biker (who, I think is also at fault for doing a break check).

So, I'll adjust my opinion somewhat to say that everyone acted very stupidly. I'm not sure how the driver gets out of there without being assaulted (assuming they would assault him at that point, which, I admit is an assumption).

It's one of those things, I guess, where you have to be in the situation to know how you'd respond.

After seeing the "other" video, I don't believe I would have ran over the biker, but would have tried to get my ass out of there any other way.

Things escalated, most definitely, out of control.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #230)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:59 PM

235. At that point the driver did ... nothing.


That was AFTER the driver intentionally ran over a downed rider then ran away. That is why they were after this guy.

See post #129 a few posts down. It has a piece that shows a couple of videos. One shows the rider trying to get the SUV to back off and getting accidentally (presumably) bumped and knocked down by the SUV. Another excerpt in there from another video shows that, while that rider was down and another was on the ground checking on him, one other rider runs up to the SUV and opens the door.

The SUV driver then pulls the door shut and drives right over the man checking on the downed rider paralyzing him for life.

One guy. Opened a door. Nobody else approached the SUV. Just that one guy.

Some of the bikers should have then chased him down until they could got a cop. I can understand why they would want to beat the crap out of the piece of shit. But they wouldn't be in jail now. He would.

And the guy trying to give out first aid would still be paralyzed for life.


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Response to ieoeja (Reply #221)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 10:09 PM

303. "So he is flat out lying about that." Wanna see a slashed tire? I'll SHOW you a slashed tire.

Oh wait... I can't. It's GONE. Gee, I wonder where it went? Look real fucking close, okay? Look real close at the right front WHEEL. That's right, look at the WHEEL, because it's the ONLY THING THERE. Where do you figure the tire went? Or maybe they're making Range Rovers these days without 'em? While you're at it, look at the passenger side window, AND the passenger side mirror. During the videos of the chase, did you ever see anyone on the right side of the vehicle? I didn't. And do you think the passenger side REAR door is open so one of those nice motorcycle riders could check on the well-being of the baby? Yeah, I bet that's it.

Another point: The guy who "brake checked" the Range Rover never went down.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #303)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 11:13 PM

310. what are you trying to say with this post?

Yes, I agree that the right front tire appears to be flat, but this appears to be a photo of the man being beaten up after they broke his window and dragged him from the car. You can also see that his wife's window was also shattered though the glass didn't fall out. We know that the vehicle was damaged and his tires were slashed at the time they caught up to the SUV and dragged him out. I'm not getting what your argument is. This is a photo of what occurred after the SUV driver ran over the bikes and the one guy with the broken legs that in the hospital, the bikers chased him down, they got off the highway, and they finally caught up to the family when they got stuck because of traffic stopped in front of them. There is no dispute that at THIS point in time that the vehicle was damaged and he was dragged out of the car and beaten up, so I just don't get what your point is with this post.

The only dispute about slashed tires I'm aware of is at what point in the whole incident that occurred, and since this photo depicts the end of the incident when they damaged his car and beat him up (that no one disputes happened at THAT point) I'm confused. Some people have been claiming that his car was being pounded on and his tires were slashed on the highway which was what caused the SUV driver to run over bikes and a person and take off but that isn't what this photos shows, so I'm just not getting what you're point is with it.

For the record, I believe that these bikers are a dangerous menace and that the SUV driver had every right to try to escape from them the way he did when he was brake checked and his vehicle was surrounded on the highway. Though I wish he had taken off more slowly trying to nudge people out of the way giving them a chance to move I can understand his terror for himself and his family even if they weren't pounding on his vehicle at that point. Given the fact that many many videos of them show other incidents where they terrorize other drivers on the road and even pound on their cars, I have no trouble believing that they did when they had his surrounded on the highway and was partially the reason he fled as he did though in the video at that point you can't even see the SUV at all much less what anyone may have been doing to it. Considering that from the start of the video the bikers had surrounded him on the highway so he couldn't pull over or get away, brake checked his vehicle on purpose to force him to stop and then surrounded his vehicle was plenty reason enough for him to be terrified and in panic for himself and his family's safety act as he did (which, thankfully, is also what the police believe).

Thanks for the photo though. Although you can't see that the driver is being beaten in this photo I'm betting that since he is already out of the vehicle that's what's happening in this photo given the bending down group at the back of the SUV.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #310)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 11:37 PM

314. The tire is completely gone

That means they didn't just slash the tires right there at the end, during the beating, as is being contended by some. That car at the very least had been driving with that tire damaged for some time, and at one point it completely fell away. Tires don't just instantly vanish the moment they're slashed. That points to the cops statement that tires were slashed at the beginning of the confrontation.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #310)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 12:13 AM

315. I'm saying that he drove a long way AFTER his front right tire was slashed.

I'm saying that's why there isn't even a tire PRESENT on the wheel. I'm saying you didn't see what was happening on the right side of the RR BEFORE he rolled over the bikes. I'm saying I don't believe the right side of the car was damaged AFTER they caught up with him in the street. Look closely, there's a dent roughly the size and shape of a helmet on the right side hood of the RR also.

I'm SAYING I believe this Pack O' Punks escalated the incident to the point where he thought he HAD to stand on his gas pedal to save his family. In the seconds leading up to the point where you see him run over the two bikes, the only part of his vehicle that is visible is its roof. I'd bet money that the passenger side mirror had already been broken, and possibly the right side window shattered as well. I believe that was what made him make the split-second decision to run.

I believe they "brake checked" him because he held his lane position and his speed. He didn't show them the deference they thought they deserved. Once he clipped the rear tire of the bike in front of him (and that bike DIDN'T go down), it was on.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #315)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 02:13 AM

323. ok, I get what you're saying now

I hadn't noticed that the tire was completely gone and didn't understand what your meant by "wheel" since I'm used to people using the word "wheel" to mean either the tire or the combination of the tire and the wheel, and I have that habit as well. So you mean "wheel" in the technical true meaning of the word for the "round metal thing that the round rubber thing filled with air goes around". I don't know, maybe it's a local thing where I live, but the only people I run across that say "wheel" to mean the actual metal wheel and not the tire or the combination of the tire and the wheel is my auto mechanic or anyone that works on or knows so much about the workings of a car that they could be an auto mechanic. I guess that's pretty weird since technically it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and it definitely can be confusing.

I wouldn't have even expected them to have done anything to the passenger side of the car anyway since they seemed to be after only the driver, but it's apparent now that they must have punctured at least that one right tire when they had the SUV surrounded on the highway for it to have completely lost the entire tire off the metal wheel when they finally got the SUV stopped in traffic and dragged him out.

Well, that clears up what happened to the car on the highway when they had him surrounded that couldn't be seen in the video, and it clears up what the driver said happened though the police still don't seem certain of that. Where did you get this photo, and do you know if the police have it? I think you should send it to them in case they don't... you never know, and it can't hurt. It really exonerates what the driver did since they had to have been sabotaging his SUV on the highway. I'm not seeing any other way that the entire tire could have come completely off otherwise by the time that photo was taken.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #323)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 11:01 AM

328. I'm a"car guy".

They've always been wheels and tires to me.

The pic was posted at LiveLeaks.

PS I didn't mean to come on so strong...

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #323)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 11:25 AM

332. You can see the tire at 3:04 in the video just after it had been ripped off the vehicle

rolling down the freeway. The second confrontation happened at 5:00, when they briefly attacked the SUV.

It's possible that the tire was damaged driving over the motorcycle, but this evidence is consistent with the SUV driver's claim about the slashed tire.

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #332)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 12:22 PM

336. Good catch about the tire that had come off the wheel at 3:04 in the GoPro2900 video.

This video, there are so many.

&feature=player_embedded

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Response to cpwm17 (Reply #332)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 01:29 PM

337. oh wow, you can!

Damn, I would never have noticed that, and I had to watch it right there several times before I saw the tire rolling and bouncing away. But I also went back to the point where they're all stopped on the highway right before the SUV took off and though you can't really see anything of the SUV other than the roof there does appear to be quite a number of bikers right up close to the passenger side I didn't notice before... I think I see a couple of helmeted heads right up against the car where they'd be if they were standing, but there's quite a group there.

I suppose the tire could have been damaged running over the bikes, but I would think if that was it wouldn't the damage more likely be a shredding or gashing that would have flattened the tire right away rather than a small puncture that would have held enough air for such a long time until the tire flew off? I don't know. I think I'm more convinced that it was deliberately punctured with that group so close up to the passenger side. Even if they didn't do it they had to have been shouting or pounding on the car or something on that side or why be right up against it like that, and that's certainly much more intimidating that what it looks like on the driver's side with most of the bikes further away and the bikers just sitting on their bikes. It's so far away from where it was filmed though that it's just so hard to tell what's happening. Damn frustrating, that.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #337)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 02:35 PM

338. I notice something new every time I watch the video

I sure can't see what's going on as they surrounded the SUV. There seemed to be witnesses from other nearby vehicles.

The right front tire took the worst beating going over the motorcycle, but a deliberate puncture sure seems possible.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #303)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 02:35 AM

324. Good find, hadn't seen that picture before.

Clearly the tire slashing happened way before they were able to pull him out of the car. That may well be why the driver decided to leave the highway. Not to mention, that's basically what the police report to the media said - they obviously have far greater access to the evidence than a bunch of people watching a helmetcam video on Youtube.

I can't tell if the people defending the bikers in these threads are just uninformed about the incident and see red whenever they see the letters SUV, or are genius trolls. Because sticking up for a bunch of self-documented antisocial criminals is a pretty sorry sight to see, at least under the prevailing culture here on DU.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #303)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 09:51 AM

325. Thanks for posting this. Lot's of defenders of these outlaws, unbelievable.

The videos posted by the outlaws were selectively edited.

BTW, what ever did become of the asshole who brake checked the SUV? Was that Cruz?

TIA.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #325)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 11:05 AM

329. I believe so.

Can't say for certain. Heard he surrendered and was released. Interesting thing was he never went down after the SUV struck the rear tire of his bike.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #329)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 11:19 AM

331. It's unclear if the collision even caused him to dump his bike. Possibly, it didn't.

And to whomever was in FRONT of the SUV when the victim needed to bolt was clearly part of the conspiracy to unlawfully detain the family, same with anyone injured during what happened.

They put themselves there.

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:15 PM

5. If you don't understand what happened, then you need

to go back to square one on this incident and start over. You obviously are posting without enough information to begin with.

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:17 PM

6. Yes, you need to watch the video.

As a former 'biker chick' with a lot of friends (and a son) that still ride, these fucks need to all be found and prosecuted. Including the 'poor' bastard that's paralyzed.

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:17 PM

7. If you are under attack from 30 people attacking your vehicle

With your two-year old child in the backseat, you move the vehicle, quickly and away. If one of the attackers happened to be in the way, well...maybe he shouldn't have been participating in a gang assault of an innocent family.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:30 PM

13. This! n/t

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:46 PM

21. It's really just this simple.

I don't understand how anyone can defend any of these pricks.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 05:30 PM

37. + 1,000

He won't be involved in the mob again

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:23 PM

81. No shit!

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:26 PM

97. Great post.

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #7)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:48 PM

129. I'm with you. By the way, I found a link with a clip showing the actual running over of bike by SUV

I maintain that the biker caused it.

http://www.rightthisminute.com//video/biker-speaks-out-biker-suv-incident-nyc

A bike group obeying the laws of the road wouldn't be doing most of the things these riders are doing, including stopping short in front of a vehicle.

That's crazy and stupid and the rider paid a price, or if it was his friend, he should chose different friends.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for them.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #129)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:10 PM

222. Holy shit! Only one person approached the SUV!


That video just blew the fuck out of the SUV driver's defense. One person walks up and yanks open the door. One. Nobody is hitting the SUV like he claimed. Nobody is slashing tires. And this piece of shit almost kills someone lying on the ground in front of him.

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #222)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:23 PM

225. DU has spoken. The bikers were all criminals and thugs who deserved to die

Prior footage shows them riding erratically and even running a few stop signs. Lien had every right to tailgate, then hit the first biker, then drive over another driver. Who cares? The guy in the coma was driving with a suspended license so he deserved to be killed. Besides, everyone knows that a group of bikers checking on their friend automatically means trouble. Lien had every right to kill every last one of them because they *looked* scary. Zimmerman agrees.



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Response to ecstatic (Reply #225)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 07:16 PM

373. Get rid

of your unwarranted sarcasm, think of yourself with your wife and child in that car and you have it exactly right.

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #222)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 03:12 PM

239. One person walks up and yanks open the door. Yup, and that's enough to be killed or seriously hurt.

What the hell business does ANYONE have coming up to YOUR door and pulling it open?

How is that alright and how is it NOT alright to get the hell out of there???

Whomever was on the ground or anywhere NEAR that SUV *MADE*A*CHOICE* to be there and is part of the crime of stopping the car, trying to open the door, and generally wreaking havoc on an innocent family.

Had I been driving, there likely would have been more carnage because if I'd gotten into that position where traffic prevented me from going further, I'd have backed up and anyone who was chasing me would suffer the consequences.

Such are the consequences of terrorizing strangers, especially parents with family in the car.

Jesus.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #239)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 03:27 PM

240. They were just fucking riding!


Yes, the guy who approached the car was probably angry as shit. I bet he would have said some really mean words to the piece of shit driving that car. And that justifies a murder spree according to you? Because maybe he would have done something else instead of just saying mean words to hm.

WTF?!?

Words fail me.

And what did happen when they caught him? Did they kill him, and rape his wife and kid? Why, no, they did not. He got a few stitches AFTER ALMOST KILLING ONE OF THEIR FRIENDS. But that's it.

They proved not to be such a bad bunch, huh? But you believe they should have all been killed.

Sick.

Again. Words fucking fail me.


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Response to ieoeja (Reply #240)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 04:27 PM

249. They took over the freeway. They are law-breakers. And they brake checked him.

And when they caught him, they PROVED that what they were capable of doing.

Thus PROVING that he did the right thing by getting away NO MATTER THE COST to them.

Fuck each and every one of those terrorists and anyone else who behaves like them.

If they are smart, they'll stop playing stupid games. If they don't, then they will have earned continued consequences.

Or, as they say:

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #249)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 05:03 PM

256. Beating him after he tried killing their friend proves they were going to beat him up anyway?!?!?!?

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #256)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 05:40 PM

261. he was trying to get away from them , they surrounded him , there was no reason for the fuckwad to

slow in front of him other than them wanted to surround and intimidate and beat him as they later did.

bunch of fucked up thugs. there are other videos of them with their thuggish behavor including hitting a Prius, driving through red lights , driving without license plates etc.

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #256)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 05:41 PM

262. Yup. Pretty much. Normal healthy people do not beat up people who are trying to get away from them

Normal people call the police.

Also, normal people "just riding" don't take over highways, run lights, take their plates off, intimidate motorists, etc.

I have real bike owning bike riding friends who would love to see each one of these assholes go to prison, just for giving the sport such a bad name.

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #240)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 04:31 PM

252. they were SMASHING the Windows on a Car with a 2 Year old, they are fucking THUGS

they were not just riding. they break laws, intimidate, terrorize .

they only have themselves to blame for those who got hurt.

there are other videos out there of their thuggish behavior .

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Response to JI7 (Reply #252)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 05:00 PM

255. One person jerking your door open justifies running over a man administering first aid ...


... to a person lying in front of your SUV.

A person running over one of your friends while he administers first aid to another of your friends is *not* justification for beating the guy up.


I would actually say neither is justified. But I would certainly say running somebody over is a far closer to justification than yanking open your door.

And it was one guy. One person. Not thirty. Nobody else, except those tending to the downed rider, were within ten feet of the SUV. One guy.



Cops see Tea Baggers waving guns around and screaming wildly. But he's okay with that because they look like the type of people that cops see as good, decent people.

Cops see Occupiers protesting and attack them. Because they don't have the right look. But DUers know that is a piece of crap.

However ... DUers see a group riding cycles wildly and the bets are off. THAT inappropriate behavior makes them thugs (the new favorite insult for dehumanizing a person/crowd).


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Response to ieoeja (Reply #255)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 05:13 PM

257. they were behaving like thugs the entire time , they deserved to get run over or worse , fuck them

the fact that the piece of shits started chasing him and smashed up the car and beat him shows he had every right to be afraid.

what the fuck do teabaggers or occupy have to do with a fucked up gang of thugs terrorizing a family including a 2 year old ?

every single fucked up one of them should pay the SUV driver for what they did including the piece of shit that is paralyzed.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #257)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 08:05 PM

293. You really should review the timeline

You're stating the events out of order. Shit did not hit the fan until the SUV driver hit 3 different people in 3 different instances (the brake check guy, then the good Samaritan helping the brake check guy, and then another guy near an impasse).

I can't say what I'd do if I was minding my business and an entitled asshole ran over my friend and took off, and I'm sure you don't know what you'd do either.

By the way, the "thugs" you refer to were released without charge.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #293)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 08:22 PM

297. the Brake Check guy's act was to intimidate him and gang up on the driver, he actually did stop

at that point but the thugs started surrounding him and he had to get away .

only one was released so far.

the entitled assholes are the fucked up thug bikers in this case. the ones who got ran over deserved it.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #293)

Sat Oct 5, 2013, 10:13 AM

380. Good Samaritan helping the brake check guy?

Oh, like you were there?

Helping the brake check guy.

Is that like wiping the sweat from the brow of the guy who slaps your wife for no good reason?

Good Samaritan, yay!

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #255)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 07:43 PM

374. Why yes, yes it des...

However ... DUers see a group riding cycles wildly and the bets are off. THAT inappropriate behavior makes them thugs (the new favorite insult for dehumanizing a person/crowd).


I don't care if it's DUers or Freepers -- not everything has to do with politics. You behave like an wild beast, and no matter what side of the political spectrum you reside, you deserve what you get -- attack myself, wife & child and you'll see what I mean.

Hint: I won't be asking for Party affiliations first.

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #240)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 01:17 AM

318. Even if the SUV driver was wrong in how he protected his family (I do not believe he was wrong),

what the thugs on the motorcycles did after that was against the law. It is not legal to beat the hell out of someone.

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Response to ieoeja (Reply #222)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 06:21 PM

342. what>?

One is enough.

The bikers all need to go to jail. Every single one of them.

And have driving priveledges revoked. for LIFE


They are all reckless scum.


Can't believe anyone would stoop so low as to defend that trash

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:32 AM

160. Exactly!

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Response to alcibiades_mystery (Reply #7)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 07:06 PM

372. Give it a try...

Not only I am with you, but I am dumbfounded by the number of posters that are either defending the gang or giving them the benefit of the doubt.

And as someone who lived in New Rochelle and took the Henry Hudson for many years, I know the panic these bike gangs like to put you under -- even if they are not really going to do anything, you feel totally helpless. Don't believe me? Try being surrounded by 50/100 + bikers with your wife and child on board where the rules of the road don't apply except in numbers.

Fuck it. Try it on your own.

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:24 PM

10. They surrounded his vehicle and were beating on it to get to him.

When a biker gang surrounds your vehicle, starts beating on it while screaming that they're going to kick you're ass, the only smart course of action is to beat a retreat as quickly as possible.

They ended up hospitalizing the dad and terrorizing his wife and toddler, so it's safe to say that his fear was justified.

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Response to Xithras (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 03:27 AM

182. Deliberately stopping the SUV and then surrounding it

seems like unlawful imprisonment to me. And dragging the driver out of the vehicle is kidnapping. The police need to throw the book at every one of the bikers involved.

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:53 PM

23. Watch The Video.

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Response to jsr (Reply #23)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:20 PM

79. Link please to THE video?

There are a dozen in one of the several articles in the OP.

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:25 PM

95. "Enough" of your silliness.

I would've ran him over. And anyone else who was trying to attack me and my family.

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:43 PM

101. It's been over 9 hours since

you wrote this post. Have you changed your mind about how you feel about what happened to the family in the SUV and how Mr. Lien reacted?

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:40 AM

165. It started with an accident. The motorcyclist stopped suddenly in front of him.

And after that collision, other bikers surrounded him and he burst through the group, trying to get away.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #165)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:23 AM

190. That was not an accident, it was deliberate.

Those guys don't like having any four-wheeled vehicles around when they are pulling their shit, and will fuck with them until they stop and let them all by.

Only problem is, it is definitely illegal to stop in a lane of traffic for no reason, brake-checking will get you a ticket.


They also blockade all vehicular traffic at intersections so everyone in their groupo can run the red light, or they like to create an audience as they play in the middle of the intersection like the immature assholes they are.

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Response to enough (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:15 AM

174. I would run them down in heartbeat if I felt my loved ones were in danger.

And I ride every day.

20 thugs attacking a car is a very dangerous situation. It wouldn't take much to smash the windows and then anyone inside can easily be assaulted.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:26 PM

11. The only tragedy is that the other 29 are physically able to ride motorcycles still. nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:05 PM

24. It's tragic that Lien wasn't driving an F-450.

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Response to dairydog91 (Reply #24)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 03:24 PM

33. Or a Mack truck.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:46 PM

228. we need a like button

 

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:29 PM

12. Too bad the driver didn't have a gun

No jury would convict him if he had used it.

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Response to jsr (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:32 PM

14. And if any of the bikers were armed, then what happens next?

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:34 PM

17. A gun beats a knife any day of the week

whether you're dealing with one hoodlum or twenty hoodlums.

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Response to jsr (Reply #17)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:38 PM

19. It's not beating twenty hoodlums with guns...This ain't Hollywood or GTA 5...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #19)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 03:29 PM

34. Sure...but it's also very, very likely most would flee once shots were fired.

People zerg rushing someone shooting at them (when there's opportunity to run) is also something that mostly happens in games and movies.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:18 PM

54. why don't you take your gun crap somewhwere else.

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Response to HERVEPA (Reply #54)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:42 PM

65. No.

If you don't like my posts, by all means put me on Ignore.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #65)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:13 PM

73. why don't you take your gun crap somewhwere else.

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #34)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:19 PM

55. Kind of off topic, but have you ever googled "zerg rush"?

It's pretty funny...

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Response to petronius (Reply #55)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:30 PM

60. I've never heard it called Zerg rush, just plain old zerg

or Zerging. From the game Starcraft.

For those not looking it up, it is a tactic used in group on group gaming where overwhelming numbers are used to overwhelm a group of better players. It's not a complimentary term.

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Response to petronius (Reply #55)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:41 PM

64. Geeky gamer chick ->

And yes, it's quite funny!

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Response to Lizzie Poppet (Reply #64)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:08 PM

71. LOL actually just googled it............

Awesome

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #19)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 04:15 AM

189. Gun Nut Fantasies

gun nuts always see things like this and start fantasizing about how they would have acted in such heroic ways with their guns.

it almost never happens but they convince themselves that they would have done it.

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Response to jsr (Reply #17)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:34 PM

87. And an SUV beats a motorcycle

He should have crashed into more of them, but he didn't. He only did it when they were surrounding him and his family.

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Response to jsr (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:13 PM

53. They had a large vehicle that could do much more damage

Besides - if they had used a gun instead of a car to defend themselves this thread would be locked.

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Response to jsr (Reply #12)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:33 PM

99. It's New York....

 

The bikers could be reasonably certain that he was unable to protect himself.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:33 PM

16. They'd all piss themselves if REAL outlaw bikers got in their faces.

Baby bikers, sheesh, they're so ignorant.

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Response to graywarrior (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 03:33 PM

35. +1

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Response to graywarrior (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:31 AM

178. Yes, I have encountered Hells Angels and they would literally murder them.

They all carry at least one gun. The stunter idiots would be nothing but chalk outlines.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #178)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 09:51 AM

200. Yeah, I grew up around HA's

They'd torture them and make them their bitches.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:36 PM

18. Now they're pissing off the cops with their bullshit answers

Dipshits.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:42 PM

20. Just watched the video and it is asolutely frightening. Those bikers

are maniacs.

Being in that SUV must have been terrifying.

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Response to virgogal (Reply #20)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:31 PM

61. It was frightening just watching it.

I can't say I would not have done the same thing. I can imagine the wife was on the phone with 911 screaming for help.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #61)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:24 PM

82. I can say that I would do the same thing.

I did once, but I was lucky enough that everyone got out of the way. A large group of young men were standing at a corner and I got a red light. They surrounded my car. To say that I was terrified would be an understatement. I looked and there were no cars coming, so I closed my eyes and gunned the engine and just drove off. Obviously, they were very wary and were ready to get out of the way if I did what I did, because no one was hit. But I would not have worried about that.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 01:46 PM

22. hope their bikes get rusty while they enjoy the hospitality of a state retention facility

very rusty

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Response to dembotoz (Reply #22)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:12 AM

147. And I hope their crotch-rockets are purposely destroyed.

I still can't understand the government mentality that ever allowed these racing machines to be declared street-legal. They were designed for high-speed racing, something completely unwanted on the public roads. While I have seen a handful of such riders driving their rockets responsibly, the majority in my years of observation are defining the "rocket" part on a daily basis.

Get a profession racer's license and take it to the track, on a trailer, only!

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Response to kentauros (Reply #147)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:38 AM

179. I've ridden a super-sport and a "hyper-sport."

Both of which were capable of going 175 mph (actually the hyper-sport delimited is capable of 180+).

They are a lot of fun and you can have fun at least semi responsibly at legal speeds. I will agree though that they can be total death traps in the wrong hands.

I don't mind much when people choose to ride stupidly on deserted roads. They are alone and if they crash they will be the only ones to pay. But what pisses me off is when they choose to ride in traffic. Especially in those large groups. It's incredibly dangerous.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:14 PM

26. hope they nail them

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #26)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:51 PM

31. Criminal forfeiture needs to be used to take away their bikes.

They should be sold and proceeds go to Mr. Lien.

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Response to gopiscrap (Reply #26)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:53 PM

32. There are too many stories to get straight. I would think someone would crack.

How tight is the gang in question, I wonder?

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:17 PM

27. I watched the video- On instinct, when I started getting intimidated and surrounded...

... I'd wait for an unsuspecting moment, swerve hard to the left, and gun it as quickly as I could. Intimidation could cause consequences, deal with them as they may come later. Better than dealing with a broken skull.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 02:36 PM

30. Wow riding off road bikes and atv's...

on the shoulder, passing on the right, on sidewalks, no plates, they are on an interstate highway. The NYPD should get the State Police down there and shut them down. I'm sure all the video posted out there will help id some of them .

On another note a few years back I was traveling south in Westchester an a group drove on the line between lanes at over 100mph to pass me. The noise was horrendous and the just missed clipping the mirror on my suv.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #30)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 05:26 PM

36. That's one of the dirty secrets of their ongoing battle with LEOs

Most sportbike hoon clubs operate with complete impunity in most communities, since police won't give chase once the bikes get up to speed, and because of liability/safety concerns can't use things like spike strips...

I know because when I lived in Maryland, the bikes would drag and hoon outside my apartment all night almost every weekend...This was literally less than a mile (on the same main road) from a Md. State Troopers building...I complained a few times...They gave less than a shit....

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #36)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 05:33 PM

39. what does

hoon mean?

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Response to Dyedinthewoolliberal (Reply #39)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 05:38 PM

41. just general immature jackassery with bikes/cars on public roads...

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hoon

burnouts, donuts, ill-advised stunts, impromptu drag racing, etc...Pretty much anything your parents or driver's ed instructor told you to NEVER, EVER do...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #36)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 06:20 PM

43. They need to get them out on the interstate and completely box them in....

with an overwhelming presence in an area where there isn't an escape. Tickets and impounds each and ever time will work also. These guys are dangerous.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #43)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 07:20 PM

45. Well, to be fair this was during

that time when 9-11 was still fresh in everyone's minds and cops couldn't be bothered with minor stuff when al-Qaeda was potentially planning their next attack at the local Waffle House....

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #43)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:24 PM

58. +1,000,000,000,000

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 05:31 PM

38. One of them surrendered today in Queens

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 05:37 PM

40. The one in the coma paralyzed, his family is all over the local news crying saying the driver should

pay.... there's some sort of fund for him, he's 26 and has a 15 year old son and 9 year old daughter

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Response to NotThisTime (Reply #40)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 05:47 PM

42. He fathered a child at 11 years old?

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #42)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 06:26 PM

44. yup, local news is totally reporting this in the favor of the damn bikers WTF

You can't even tell the difference between him and the 15 year old. News is saying the bikers were surrounding the suv AFTER the driver hit the guy.... edit footage much?

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Response to Beaverhausen (Reply #42)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 07:58 PM

50. Maybe it's a step-son?

I once had a co-worker who was 29, and his step-kids were 17, 14 and 9 (wife was in the late 30s)...I shit you not....

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #50)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:09 PM

51. He is actually 32 according to a recent arrest

I'm assuming (maybe a stretch) that when they say these are his children, they are his biological children. Regardless the CBS station is very favorable towards his family who are crying fowl and not saying he was actually involved with the lawlessness from the start. People are going to the news site (wbztv.com) and lets say they are not favorable regarding the story or the injured.

The local paper reports this guy was arrested May 24th for driving with a suspended license. Wonder if he even had a license to operate any motor vehicle?

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 07:23 PM

46. Someone needs to start a "Fuck Jeremiah Mieses" site

 

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Response to Taverner (Reply #46)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 07:47 PM

49. If you read the posts...

...they've unintentionally done it themselves.

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Response to Taverner (Reply #46)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 09:44 AM

199. He's already fucked. (nt)

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:21 PM

56. I would have been terrified if I was in that car

Fucking thugs.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:23 PM

57. Can someone explain the initial bump/hit that led to the chase?

Maybe I missed something, but in the video I watched, the SUV driver appeared to hit a motorcyclist on purpose before speeding off to the expressway. What was that about? I got the impression that the SUV driver had road rage and wanted the bikers to get out his way.

The video I saw: #t=325 the hit occurs around 22 seconds in.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #57)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:33 PM

62. I see the biker pull in front of him and slow way down while looking behind him.

Really cutting him off.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #57)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:17 PM

76. The biker attempted an illegal "brake check" to stop the SUV.

The SUV did not stop in time and bumped the bike as the biker hoped would happen.

The real question is: what happened prior to this video that started this chain of events in the first place?

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #76)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:24 PM

83. I doesn't matter what happened earlier. This is TERRORISM, there is no excuse.

I don't care if the SUV driver brandished an AK-47, let's this shits take an iPhone picture of it and the plate and call the cops.

This is fucked up behavior.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #83)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:27 PM

85. True, but nothing happens in a vacuum.

And I did not mean to imply that the SUV driver was at fault for starting it, if my post came off that way.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #76)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:18 AM

175. I've seen this before. The bikers likely wanted to stop traffic to stunt on the road.

A few riders will go to the back of the group and stop the rest of traffic so the highway is clear.

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Response to ManiacJoe (Reply #76)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 04:00 PM

246. Well one clear early link in the event chain

is that the riders organized a ride of like 50-80 with no evident leadership, coordination or formation (they're in all lanes, overcrowding each other and riding at inconsistent speeds)...That's not just reckless, rude and unprofessional; it's borderline suicidal...You MIGHT get away with this kind of riding on seldom-traveled backwoods roads, but in New York it defies explanation...

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #57)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:04 PM

108. Read posts 62 and 76.

That maneuver was initiated by the idiot on the motorcycle. He had no injuries.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #57)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:42 AM

167. No, the biker pulled in front of him and abruptly slowed down,

causing him to hit the biker. It wasn't his fault he couldn't stop the car fast enough.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:24 PM

59. Their sorry asses are lucky more weren't run over.....i have no pity for the injured one.

Charge them all and confiscate the bikes.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:35 PM

63. check out what these assholes get up to on a "normal" ride...

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #63)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:07 PM

70. Low-life thugs unfit to be organ donors.

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Response to jsr (Reply #70)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:23 AM

155. I'll assume the linked video is showing riders going in excess of 150mph, or more.

So, unfortunately, they aren't the only ones that will likely be organ donors if they happen to hit another vehicle. At those speeds, all vehicles are totaled, killing everyone.

These are racing bikes and do not belong on public roads. I wonder what kind of legislation it would take to revoke their street-legal status.

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Response to kentauros (Reply #155)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:48 AM

180. I cannot agree with you on this. Put a speed limiter on them. But you cannot ban them.

They are not weapons solely designed to kill. They are motorcycles when, in the wrong hands, are capable of killing.

So put a speed limiter on them. There is already a gentlemen's agreement to limit all Japanese motorcycles to 186 mph (300 kph). Lower it to what is reasonable. But know full well that all it takes to erase that limiter is a reflash and that costs a few hundred dollars and a few minutes of your time.

But if you want to heavily limit motorcycles, you will also have to heavily limit cars. And then this becomes a bit of a shit show because, ultimately, the limiters can be removed.

So what other way do you plan on legislating away these problems? There's no other reliable measure beside top speed.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #180)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 08:28 AM

198. I'm not a legislator.

So I have no idea what would be good legislation. I only know what I don't like, having to put up on the public roads with highly "unprofessionally-skilled" drivers. It's bad enough that getting a driver's license is incredibly easy here, and most drivers promptly forget everything they learned in order to treat the public roads as their private racetracks.

All that is made worse by the ones that get vehicles (any kind, cars, trucks, and bikes) that were originally designed not just for speed, but for racing. Crotch-rockets were designed for racing. Period. They have zero place on public roads, even deserted ones. Public roads aren't built or designed for racing, but racetracks are. What's wrong with people being required to take it to a track if they want speed like that?

Build some tracks like the VW test track in Germany, where they have one part of the track that's 5-miles long in a straight line. Build an American version of the Nuremberg Ring. Then they can kill themselves and each other with impunity, and keep it off the public roads.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #63)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:20 PM

78. Thugs

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:51 PM

66. shouldn't all the bikers be arrested ?

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Response to JI7 (Reply #66)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 08:54 PM

67. NYPD is trying to find them.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:01 PM

68. I just don't see it the way you all do.

The SUV driver panicked and ran them over. He is at fault for that.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #68)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:12 PM

72. I'd panic too if thirty people surrounded my car on the West Side Highway nt

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #68)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:14 PM

74. They were attacking him when he drove forward

Should he have sat and waited nicely while a gang of thugs assaults him and his family.

These are not some nice group of bikers. These are thugs on motorcycles, dirtbikes and atvs terrorizing the streets in NY. Some of the footage shows 100+ bikes. Speeding down the wrong side of the road in between on coming traffic. Wheelies in traffic, wheelies on the wrong side of the road. NO adherence to street laws AT ALL. Speeding through red lights, stopping traffic...

Then one of them cuts of a car and slows down while looking behind him and the car bumps his back tire. Then they start to beat on the windows like a mob of savages, blocking the car in. WTF would you have done?

Watch some of the videos of this group. Frankly they are lucky none of them died or killed anyone else.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #74)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:18 PM

77. Exactly they were trying to pull him out of that car before he drove off and over that guy....

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #74)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:25 PM

84. I did watch the videos.

"These are not some nice group of bikers. These are thugs on motorcycles, dirtbikes and atvs terrorizing the streets in NY. Some of the footage shows 100+ bikes. Speeding down the wrong side of the road in between on coming traffic. Wheelies in traffic, wheelies on the wrong side of the road. NO adherence to street laws AT ALL. Speeding through red lights, stopping traffic... "

While I agree this stupid, I don't think they should be ran over because of it.


"Then one of them cuts of a car and slows down while looking behind him and the car bumps his back tire. Then they start to beat on the windows like a mob of savages, blocking the car in. WTF would you have done? "

I saw the "biker" cut him off on the video. I did not see them beat on the windows like a mob of savages. I would have called 911, because there was an accident. He hit the "biker". He left the scene of an accident. He panicked and could have killed several of them.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #84)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:30 PM

123. I didn't see that in the video either

Between the time that he bumped that jackass's back tire that purposely swerved in front of him and slammed on the brakes and when he took off at speed and plowed through and over some of the bikers you couldn't even see the SUV at all much less what they were doing to it. I only saw one person get off their bike and walk back toward where the big group stopped in the road around the SUV. Everyone else appeared to be on their bikes just not moving, but since you can't see the SUV at all until it accelerated and plowed through and over other bikers I can't see how anyone could tell from the video what was happening at that point. I have no problem believing that they were pounding on the SUV and he was terrified, but you just can't see that in the video.

I have seen other videos of these assholes riding around on the wrong side of the road, cutting people off, surrounding other cars and yes, pounding on other cars for no reason, so I have no problem believing they did the same thing to this guy, but you just can't see them doing that in this video when he was pulled over and they all stopped in the road. The video also conveniently doesn't show how else they might have been harassing this vehicle before as they were all going down the highway... I have a very hard time believing that one single guy got it into his head all by himself to suddenly swerve in front of the SUV, hit the brakes and allow the SUV to bump his back tire especially since it just so happened that the dude with the helmet camera had his head turned toward and was close to that particular asshole for that whole scene, which seems to me that he knew what that dude was going to do.

Still, it seems like the guy in the SUV needn't have plowed through the bikers and run them over at a high rate of speed though I can also chalk that up to panic and already having been harassed by these thugs on two wheels. I just would have been happier that he tried to leave a lot slower giving them a chance to get out of the way. But, like I said, I can understand that he was totally panicked and utterly terrorized, so I also can't hold it against him how he got away from them either.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #123)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:54 PM

134. Here's the video:

More of it than I'd seen before in the 6-7 minute youtube:

http://www.rightthisminute.com//video/biker-speaks-out-biker-suv-incident-nyc

You'll see the SUV drive right over bike and rider. I think leaving, even driving over the bike, was a forgivable act of desperation resulting from the behaviors of the gang of bike riders, all of whom have a share of the blame for acting as a pack.

Cyclists have a duty to obey the laws of the road. Clearly a mob mentality sets in with these riders when they're in large numbers and it's utter lawlessness.

Sorry to see anyone injured, but they brought it on themselves, IMO.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #134)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:05 AM

141. That video shows nothing new.

"Then one of them cuts of a car and slows down while looking behind him and the car bumps his back tire. Then they start to beat on the windows like a mob of savages, blocking the car in. WTF would you have done? "

The video you posted still doesn't show that.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #141)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:06 AM

143. Doesn't show what?

What are you not seeing, the "brake check" or the window beating?

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #143)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:11 AM

145. This

Then they start to beat on the windows like a mob of savages, blocking the car in.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #145)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:18 AM

149. Most of the videos only show the initial breaking of the window with a helmet.

It's usually at the very end when the SUV is stopped at traffic with no place to go.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #149)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:22 AM

154. That was after he had already ran over them. Not before!

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #154)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:31 AM

159. You refer to a description in a reply above that I think is an encapsulation of the whole thing.

Not very accurate, I don't know that it's been shown that window attacks happened before the runover of the bikes.

However, police say that not seen on camera but just before the runover is a slashing of SUV tires by one or more bikers, according to the journalist in that clip, not that it's reliable.

IN ANY EVENT. The "brake check" was the central cause of the collision and was itself a provocative attack.

Given the reckless behavior of the mob, and it was a mob, and this brake check and being surrounded by bikes, I don't blame the SUV driver for wanting to get out of there in a hurry.

Staying there would probably have led to a beating, and he has no duty to stay there to find out.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #159)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:37 AM

163. I agree with most of what you posted this time.

I personally would have taken the beating instead of running them over and possibly killing them though. Good night.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #163)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:39 AM

164. He may have just panicked, too.

Scared for his life and that of his family, he might have just reacted badly.

Good night.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #163)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:34 AM

191. No, you would not have. You would do anythiong in your power to protect your family from harm.

If that means killing a person that is trying to assault you, YOU WILL DO IT.

Ask anyone that has used deadly force in protecting their family why they chose to do what they did.


Using that Range Rover as a weapon in order to escape from harm is justifiable.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #163)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 11:06 AM

209. So you would give yourself to the mob, taking a beating and maybe surviving.

What then happens to your wife and child? Rape? Another beating? According to your version the mob would have been satisfied with your death. Are you so sure of this that you would put your family in jeopardy?

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Response to oneshooter (Reply #209)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:10 PM

216. Not only did they not kill him,

but the wife and child was untouched. And that was after he ran over one of the bikers. You think it would have been worse if he waited for the cops? That doesn't make sense.

I am a woman by the way.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #163)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 11:20 AM

210. The "beating" could well have been fatal for all occupants of the truck. I believe that most people

would have attempted to drive off.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #163)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 03:07 PM

237. So..

 

if your wife and baby were in the car you would take a beating instead of running them over? What if after they beat the crap out of your they raped your wife and then beat her up?

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #163)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:20 PM

277. Such a beating could be fatal or could leave you with brain damage. And remember,

the SUV driver had his wife and 2-year-old in the car. Would you really let a mob like that beat you and perhaps go after your family just because you are so concerned not to hurt THEM?

Easy to SAY; harder to allow in real life, though. We are animals, and like all animals, we have a poweeful survival instinct.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #163)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 01:29 AM

319. So if they cannot handle being pounded on by 20 to 30 people

I guess that makes someone deserve to die?

Is your position that it is better to die, even to let your family die, than to kill, even in self defense?

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #154)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:35 AM

161. They shouldn't have come at him in the first place...

 

They deserve everything they got and more.

Bitty baby bikers attack, en masse, against an unarmed man and his family and cry their little eyes out when something back happens.

Fuck them....

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #149)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 08:15 PM

377. The title to the video

says it all, folks. Not much else to add/or discuss

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #143)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:13 AM

148. LOL... good post my friend! like, hello!?

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Response to Divine Discontent (Reply #148)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:19 AM

150. DD!

dawg!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #134)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 01:58 AM

170. those are just a few clips from the same video from the helmet camera

The woman that's explaining the story also claimed that the biker that purposely swerved in front of the SUV and deliberately "brake checked" so that his rear tire was bumped had his leg broken which is BS because that same person was also shown riding his pristine bike in the chase after the SUV ran over other bikers and was the same guy that jumped off his bike and punched the rear window of the SUV when another one smashed his helmet into the driver's window, and he was perfectly fine.

However, the video seems more clear that the bikers weren't hammering on the SUV when it pulled over after bumping that guy's rear tire... just looks like they're all sitting on their bikes doing nothing (but stopped all over the highway) when the SUV took off and ran into and over other bikers stopped in front of it. But I've seen other videos (and posted one here) of what these guys get up to when they're riding in this pack, and they break every traffic rule there is as well as hammer on car windows, run red lights, drive on the wrong side of the road, etc. No wonder the police have been after them for years - they're a dangerous menace.

I don't believe that biker they interviewed for one minute that they were all obeying traffic rules and that is was the SUV that was harassing THEM. Sorry, they have videos all over YouTube of the shit they get up to when riding in this pack, and there's NO QUESTION that they were terrorizing that family in the SUV long before that video started with them all riding surrounding that vehicle and that one git PURPOSELY braked in front of the SUV so that it would bump his tire. It's way too convenient that Helmet Camera Dude had his camera trained on that git from the start and only looked away the second before the SUV hit it. A lot of those bikes weren't legal either with no license plates and had no business being on the road in the first place. Wouldn't surprise me if they took them off on purpose so that no one could get their plate number when they did this horrible shit.

Still, I would have been happier if the guy in the SUV didn't PLOW at high speed into and over the bikers to get away and pulled out a lot more slowly to at least give them the chance to get out of the way, but I can understand his terror and panic that made him do it especially since it's ludicrous to believe that it was the SUV driver with his wife and two year old child that was harassing THEM... what a lying shitbag that Helmet Camera Dude is - for heaven's sake, their dangerous and menacing antics are all over the internet! I agree that they totally brought this shit on themselves, and it's amazing that something like this didn't happen sooner.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #170)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:03 AM

171. I agree with every word.

The SUV driver needed to get out of there and I don't think he had a way around any of these bikes.

I only wish he'd not have gone all the way up to the stopped cars (at the end) and would instead started backing and found some other way to continue driving.

I can't think of a way to stop these people except to hunt them down with a skilled task force looking at YouTubes, and identifying people and gang members and throwing them into prison for a long long time.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #68)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:12 PM

90. The bikes were driving wrecklessly, you don't stop dead in front of a vehicle on the Parkway.

You think it's OK to crowd around a car and then it's OK if one of the bikes decides, right in front of the only car in sight, to STOP?

Of course he got hit, probably wanted to get hit.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #90)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:16 PM

91. No, I never said it is ok to stop in front of the car.

However, I don't think it is ok to run over someone because someone else stopped in front of my vehicle.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #91)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:21 PM

92. Maybe I missed something, there is more than one video.

The one I watched is filmed from a GoPro on a helmet and begins with the SUV in center lane, a bike comes up on driver's side in the SAME middle lane, then steers directly in front of the SUV and suddenly slows down. Right then is when I think the SUV strikes the bike, but the helmet-cam turns away.

The rest of the video is all chase, ending in a biker busting the SUV window when stopped in traffic.

If there's a different video, please reply with the link.

If we're talking about the same video, then I think the SUV driver didn't do anything on purpose and just wasn't able to stop with the bike so close to him and suddenly stopping.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #92)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:27 PM

98. You must not be watching carefully.

After he bumps the bike, the bikers stop and we can't see exactly what happens right after that. Then the SUV runs over a guy and at least one bike and fleas away.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #98)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:33 PM

100. As you say, we can't see exactly what happens.

It's hard to discuss what can not be seen, but we can see what led up to the collision.

Now why would the SUV driver, with family in car, run over a guy unless it was unavoidable? Would it have been better to back up into other bikes?

They seem to have had him surrounded, but we don't know what we didn't see.

And, given the circumstances, the numbers, and the behaviors of the bikers, why on earth would anyone stop to exchange information?

I wouldn't have stopped, I'd have been on my cell phone to 911 and plotting my way to the nearest safe place.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #100)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:43 PM

102. Which is exactly what should have been done,

but the SUV driver panicked and ran someone over.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #102)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:52 PM

103. Why didn't "the bikers" take down his license plate

and call the cops like you said the driver of the SUV should have? Hell, the helmet cam guy could have recorded what happened to show the police; but he didn't.

You agree "the SUV driver panicked" but you think he should have handled it rationally.

Why shouldn't "the bikers" have handled it rationally?

There were plenty of them to stay with the injured while the others tracked the SUV without ever having to touch the SUV. All they had to do was call the cops. Yet they chased down the SUV for miles and the results were recorded.

Perhaps "the bikers" should be held to the same standard you use for the SUV driver.



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Response to Cerridwen (Reply #103)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:54 PM

104. Obviously, the driver was the victim and should not be expected to act normally.

It's not like it was just one bike and him, or that the collision was his fault.

I can't believe anyone is trying to defend the terrorist Road Warrior-like bikers.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #104)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:15 PM

113. If you meant to reply to me,

you might want to re-read what I said.

I replied to newcriminal about her double standard with regards to how she thinks the driver should have responded versus how "the bikers" are recorded as responding.

She demands one standard for the driver and another for "the bikers."

I pointed that out.

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Response to Cerridwen (Reply #113)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:17 PM

115. Yes. I was agreeing with you.

And referring to newcriminal when I wrote that I don't know why anyone is defending bikers.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #115)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:22 PM

118. Thanks for making that clear.

Anyone who has driven for any length of time knows of, or perhaps should know of, staged accident scams.

Here's a link that includes "swoop and stop": http://www.dmv.org/insurance/how-to-handle-staged-car-accidents.php

Swoop and Stop

In this scenario, a car will suddenly pull in front of yours and stop or squat. Another vehicle, will simultaneously pull up alongside your car, preventing you from a preventive swerve.

The passengers in the car that stopped will then, in collaboration with a shady physician or chiropractor, file personal injury claims for phony injuries. Or some will go to actual doctors, claiming whiplash or some other "soft tissue injury," which are difficult to detect.


Not all scams are for insurance. Some are to create a scenario much like this story. As can happen with any scam, sometimes the scammers hurt themselves, too. "Instant Karma."



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Response to Cerridwen (Reply #118)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:29 PM

122. Yes, I'd forgotten about those. And then there are also just crazy people.

I was followed in my Prius by a relentless black Crown Victoria driven by an asshole who was pissed that I didn't allow him to rudely force his way in front of me in the fast lane (I hate that behavior), on an eight lane highway (four each direction).

He insisted on staying behind me, for miles, instead of just going on. I would move all the way into the slow lane and he'd do the same. I went to pull over thinking he'd just keep going on, and he pulled over and opened his door, so I took off.

This lasted a good 12 miles until I had a clear shot at flying across several lanes of traffic (safely) to get to an exit and did so in a way he couldn't recover from.

That was scary behavior on his part, if it had been me in that SUV with dozens of sick people on bikes, I don't think I'd have worried much about one of them being hurt while I tried to save myself and my family.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #122)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:41 PM

126. Oh yeah. I've had those experiences, too.

I was doing the speed limit in a school zone.

The only thing I messed up on during my driving test was not seeing the school zone posted. It was a trick set up by the DMV and I was one of thousands of new drivers caught by it. Guess where my first ticket came from? A different school zone, but yeah, not slowing through a school zone.

I am punctilious about school zones. This jerk rode my bumper all the way to my turn as I rigorously stayed at the speed limit even beyond the school zone. I was fortunate in that he apparently was more interested in getting to his destination than "getting" me.

There was another occasion in which some guy came right up on my back bumper as we were traversing a winding, sweeping, downhill curve on which he could have easily maneuvred around me. He came up so fast I didn't have time to move. He was at the top of the hill then on my bumper before I knew it. Then he rode my bumper.

After he did that, for the next several miles I made a point of making sure he was stuck viewing the back end of my car. I was younger, more foolish, and more invincible back then. Oh, and I drove a much faster and more maneuverable car back then.



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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #104)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:41 PM

127. I hate that it seems that way. My personal take--

I know a lot of bikers--their lifestyle is not my cup of tea, but it affects how I interpreted what I saw on the video. I saw bikers driving really slow and taking up the entire road. I saw the range rover driver beeping at the bikers and following so closely that a crash occurred when one of the bikers hit his brakes. It's almost certain that a confrontation occurred and angry words were exchanged because it probably appeared that the driver did it on purpose, considering the beeping and tailing... I can understand completely how freaked out the Range Rover driver must have been when all the bikers started approaching to check on their friend, but nothing violent was happening when the range rover driver decided to take off, running over a biker (paralyzing him) and destroying his bike. I'm not excusing the events that followed, but how would you feel if someone ran over your friend and took off?

I wish him a speedy recovery, but a little bit of common sense on the Range Rover driver's part could have prevented the incident. Just as I wouldn't engage a group shady characters on the street, I wouldn't engage them on the road. If I drive up on a group of bikers, I'm going to slow down until the last one has passed and that's it. No sudden movements. No tailgating. No beeping. I just stay completely out the way because I don't want to be associated with any crashes that result from their reckless behavior (around here, they tend to drive 90+ mph). Basically, the last thing I'd do is tailgate a pack of bikers while beeping my horn.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #127)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:53 PM

133. how about a little common

sense from those idiots on the bikes. Many of them with no tags, so not legal on the road and not following any rules of the road.

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Response to Duckhunter935 (Reply #133)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:58 PM

138. Again I agree with that.

What I don't agree with is that means they should be ran over.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #127)

Fri Oct 4, 2013, 07:53 PM

375. That's some fu'd reasoning!

...Just as I wouldn't engage a group shady characters on the street, I wouldn't engage them on the road. If I drive up on a group of bikers, I'm going to slow down until the last one has passed and that's it. No sudden movements. No tailgating. No beeping. I just stay completely out the way because I don't want to be associated with any crashes that result from their reckless behavior (around here, they tend to drive 90+ mph). Basically, the last thing I'd do is tailgate a pack of bikers while beeping my horn.



IOW, fuck the law and let the chickenshits set their own. You'll just abide. Till you can't abide any longer as you'd be dead...

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Response to Cerridwen (Reply #103)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:56 PM

105. I never said they shouldn't be.

But they didn't run anyone over. He could have easily killed someone.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #105)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:12 PM

111. No. But not for lack of trying.

They chased him down, slashed the tires on his vehicle then beat the shit out of him.

You think the driver should have called the cops but can't be bothered to think of what "the bikers" actually did.

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Response to Cerridwen (Reply #111)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:20 PM

116. After he ran some of them over.

Yes he should have dialed 911. The article said he was treated and released with two black eyes. They didn't kill him even after he almost killed one of them. I'm sure if they wanted to kill him he would be dead right now.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #116)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:28 PM

121. Read my reply to NYC_SKP. (#118)

There is a link with this type of scam. Sometimes the scam is pulled for insurance. Sometimes it is to start a confrontation, that is, to "pick a fight."

I watched about 10 videos of these "bikers," aka, punks on wheels riding like idiots. They put into danger themselves, those drivers around them and several pedestrians, to name just a few.



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Response to newcriminal (Reply #116)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 10:29 AM

327. With stitched on his chest and arm also

He was slashed.

Take a look at the other videos of that day. They surrounded another driver, preventing him from pulling out onto the street and were kicking the car.

These were not a bunch of good natured buddies out for a ride. These were a mob of people, many on illegal machines, running red lights, stopping traffic, riding the wrong way into on coming traffic. They were an aggressive mob. They purposefully stopped that RR for not giving them the road. Then one of them pulled the driver door open in the middle of what was a pretty aggressive and intimidating mob.

I am sure individually there were some good people riding that day, but all together they became a violent and dangerous mob.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #102)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:12 PM

112. The driver was in fear for his life and the

and the lives of his family. Driving away to escape the threat is the legal and prudent thing to do. If he were charged with a crime he would not be convicted. This is a classic case of self-defense.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #68)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:07 PM

109. Really?

That's what you come up with? Did you watch the video?

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #68)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:48 PM

128. Appropriate username is appropriate...

 

Cowardly bikers attack en masse against one man with his wife and baby, who they know to be unarmed because it's New York, and you think he is at fault for getting the hell out of there?

Good lord... Next time your jury duty notice comes just ignore it....

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #68)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:54 PM

135. he was surrounded by 30 bikers beating on his car

threatening him, his wife and his 2 year old toddler.

He did what he had to do to protect them. He is not being charged because it was self defense.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #68)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:44 AM

168. Try driving with a baby in the back seat while you're surrounded

by a bunch of testosterone-filled barbarians on bikes, and see what panic feels like.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:15 PM

75. Where were the cops?

Why was this allowed to go on for so long?

The SUV driver ran over the guy because no one came to his aid.

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Response to delta17 (Reply #75)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:22 PM

80. When not protecting Wall Street

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Response to jsr (Reply #80)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:16 PM

114. I resent you using the good men of the 12th to describe the NYPD

You can't compare.

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Response to Catherine Vincent (Reply #114)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 08:09 AM

194. + 1,000,000

Use NYPD Blue or something else. Not the finest group of men to ever wear the (fictional) badges.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #194)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 11:12 AM

330. I've spoken to Chicago cops who say Barney Miller was the most life-like cop show ever. n/t

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Response to delta17 (Reply #75)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:35 PM

283. the police are never around when these thugs are on the rampage

They've been doing it for years, taking over Times Square, taking over the highway, racing through traffic doing everything illegal imaginable and threatening other drivers and causing accidents before they escape and the police are NEVER around even when they ARE called. It's about fucking time they did something about these asshats and took what they've been doing for YEARS seriously.

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Response to delta17 (Reply #75)

Thu Oct 3, 2013, 02:45 PM

339. They were busy stopping random minorities and frisking them. n/t

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:31 PM

86. I guess this dude will be a little bit less of a badass riding his wheelchair around

than when he terrorized innocent drivers on his bike.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 09:55 PM

88. If this is the same J. Mieses who was injured, then it was really just a matter of time.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #88)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:25 PM

94. He was an aspiring rapper and rapped about thug life, that's him

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #88)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:33 PM

124. I wish I were cool like that!

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 10:26 PM

96. Frankly, I think both groups were wrong.

Also, I don't see where the actual individual who is now is definitively guilty of anything more than being a part of the group.

There was an accident, most of what happens in that instant is unclear. Then the SUV driver runs over a few bikers, paralyzing one? How do we know the one who was paralyzed wasn't just watching from the sidelines? Looks like there are a few actual instigators in this group and a lot more kind of watching.

Shameful all around. And sad. I don't wish paralysis on any rider.

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #96)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:21 PM

117. The SUV driver did nothing shameful or illegal.

He was protecting his family. He drove away from the threat. It's too bad someone was injured. All of the motorcycle drivers should have considered that before engaging in the behavior they did on the expressway.

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #96)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:07 AM

144. one biker under arrest deliberately caused the initial accident

He cut him off, looked back at the SUV driver first over his right shoulder, then over his left and then stopped dead or close to it. The SUV driver was unable to stop in time and clipped his back tire. The accident is very, very clear in the video. You can see the motorcycle rider pull in front of him very close, within just a couple feet, forcing him to slow down. You can see the motorcycle rider look back over his shoulders and then you see the motorcycle come to a (near )stop, forcing the SUV driver to slam on his brakes and pretty much making it impossible to not hit the back of the bike.

The SUV driver then pulled over to do what you normally do in an accident. But 30 bikers surrounded his vehicle, slashed his tires and started pounding on it and threatening him.

He drove off to protect himself, his wife and his children.

Instead of taking his plates and calling the police to have him arrested for leaving the scene of an accident, the bikers then chased him down the highway until his tires were totally flat, smashed in the front and back driver-side windows, dragged him out of the car, beat him up and then took off.

First responders found him lying on a sidewalk in a pool of his own blood.

The police, who have viewed the videos and interviewed witnesses are not charging the father because they have determined he hit the motorcycle that deliberately cut him off by accident and that he drove off in self-defense from the mob that had surrounded his vehicle, slashed his tires and threatened him while pounding on his car.

They have arrested the guy who caused the accident. They have arrested the guy who smashed in the rear drivers-side window. They are looking for the guy who smashed in the front drivers-side window.

Seems pretty clear cut who is to blame here.

As far as the guy that was run over and paralyzed, he was part of the group the surrounded the SUV to begin with. He was running with the wrong crowd. Furthermore, other video shows the whole lot of them riding on sidewalks, running red lights, passing 2 lanes of cars by riding down the broken lines that separate the lanes...including the wrong way in traffic.

Oh, and he was arrested for riding with a suspended license a couple months ago.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #144)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:20 AM

151. Zero sympathy. The shit they do is deliberate, provocative, and high risk.

Not to mention they routinely disregard traffic laws.

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Response to jsr (Reply #151)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 01:42 PM

220. Agreed. I watched about half an hour of the videos leading up to the incident

The rode on sidewalks, they passed traffic in breakdown lanes and on the broken lines between lanes, and even drove between lanes in the opposite direction of traffic, sometimes were weaving in and out. Also ran a couple red lights. Generally reckless endangerment and violation of traffic laws throughout.

Furthermore, they are riding off road vehicles without plates and presumably unregistered.

They went looking for trouble and it found them. My sympathy for the guy who ended up paralyzed is zero.

I actually saw an article yesterday while at work with a bulletin from a police department advising people what to do if they find themselves in a similar situation as the SUV family.

The driver of the SUV did *exactly* what the police recommended. Stay locked in your vehicle if you can. If you can't and you are in fear for your safety, leave the area.

The fact that he is not being charged and the police called it self-defense says it all.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #144)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:42 PM

227. Even Helmet Camera Dude admitted that the brake check was deliberate

In one of the links someone gave here is an interview with the guy that was filming with the helmet camera and he says that the guy that brake checked the SUV did it deliberately... he was even the one to call it a "brake check". Of course, he insists that he only did it to get the SUV to move over so they could pass which is rubbish because the SUV was surrounded by bikes and the SUV driver was trying to get away from them. IIRC, he also claimed that it was the SUV that sped up to hit the guy's rear tire which is also bullshit as can be seen in the video.

The only thing in your post I don't understand is why you think that when the SUV pulled over after bumping that rear tire of the guy who brake checked him that when it was stopped and surrounded by bikers that they were beating on his SUV and slashing his tires because that can't be seen in the video... in the video at that point you can't see the SUV at all until it springs forward running over bikers. They couldn't have slashed his tires at that point since he drove away at high speed and his tires were fine. If the SUV driver said they were pounding on his car and issuing threats I would tend to believe him seeing how there are plenty of other videos that show these thugs doing the same thing to other drivers... cutting them off, pounding on their cars, shoving them off the road, etc.

It isn't necessary to claim that at that point they were pounding on his car, slashing his tires and issuing threats since just the brake check that was obviously deliberate and then being forcibly stopped in the road and surrounded by dozens of bikers is plenty intimidating enough to cause the SUV driver to feel so threatened that he escaped in the way he did. That's why the police haven't arrested him for running them over... they say the video shows that he had a legitimate fear to do so.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #227)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:52 PM

232. I read several articles about it yesterday...

which said his tires were slashed and that the reason the bikers caught up with him after he raced of is because he was eventually forced to a stop when his tires went totally flat.

Tires don't necessary immediately go flat when they have holes in them.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #232)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 03:10 PM

238. That's not what is seen in the video

The vehicle is undamaged when it was chased, and the bikers caught up to him eventually because he got stuck behind traffic and had no way to continue on. He got stuck in traffic previously, and one guy raced back and managed to yank his door open when traffic started moving again and he was able to take off again. The next time he has to stop behind traffic they surround him, and that time he had no where to go. It was TRAFFIC that got him stranded and caught by these thugs. You can see in the video how he had to stop behind other cars at a light, and his tires aren't the least bit squishy much less flat when they broke his window after which the video shuts off before you see any dragging him out and beating him or any tire slashing.

A SLASHED tire will go flat immediately. A very small puncture with just the tip of a knife may have allowed him to continue driving as long as he did, but since their intent would have been to disable the car on the highway before he ran over anyone and where you say his tires were slashed they would have SLASHED them rather than putting in tiny punctures that still allowed him to drive off. The tire slashing didn't happen until after they caught up to him - his tires were perfectly fine when they broke his window. Watch the video. At the very end of it you can see as they are pounding on his windows and the braking of the driver's window that his tires are fine.

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Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #238)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 05:28 PM

259. I just reread my post from last night. I never said I saw that in the video

I wrote that the accident was clear in the video and described the rider looking back over his right and left shoulder before stopping.

I didn't write about the tire slashing until the next paragraph. Excuse me for not making clear that when I wrote that the accident was clear from the video, that I meant THE ACCIDENT WAS CLEAR FROM THE VIDEO.

So taket your m.f. nitpicking somewhere else and welcome to ignore. I don't have time for quibblers, nitpickers or a-holery.

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #259)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:22 PM

278. you made a claim that was disputed by the video

because of some article you read. I merely pointed out that the claim you have been espousing that the SUV's tires were slashed and that the reason he had to finally come to a stop was because they ran out of air which is CLEARLY disputed by what is in the video. As I said, there was nothing wrong with the tires on the SUV when it came to a stop and the windows were broken at which point he was dragged out and beaten and that he had to come to a stop because of traffic in front of him that was stopped at a red light which disputed the article you read of what happened to his tires and why he had to stop. I merely correcting the facts, and you're calling it nitpicking and assholery. Since when is correcting false information nitpicking or assholery??? Do you really expect to make false claims about facts here from something you read that is CLEARLY disputed by the video and not be corrected? And I was polite about it as well. You're the one calling it nitpicking and that I was being an asshole pointing you to what is CLEARLY demonstrated by what is seen in the video that puts whatever article you read as false information, and I didn't even attack YOU for that false information either but just pointed out that it is CLEAR that what you read was not correct.

Now if that's too much for you to handle I'm surprised that you participate here at all seeing as how so many people DO attack people personally on mere opinion on a daily basis which is NOT what I did. Go ahead and put me on Ignore then if you're that offended by having the false facts you claim politely corrected. Jeebus. I'd rather not have to hold your hand and otherwise kiss up to you for merely having your false facts corrected, so I can't say I'd miss you anyway.


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Response to magical thyme (Reply #259)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:27 PM

280. LAH-LAH-LAH-LAH-LAH-LAH-LAH

I can't HEAR you!

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #280)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 08:01 PM

291. yeah, and my heart just breaks over that

Whoopdie-doo. What are you, twelve?

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Response to magical thyme (Reply #280)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 08:11 PM

296. LAH-LAH-LAH-LAH-LAN

Still can't hear you.

But the police say the bikers slashed the SUV's tires.

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Response to RedCappedBandit (Reply #96)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:21 AM

153. The idiot in the hospital is the one who caused it.

He did an illegal break check. HE WAS LOOKING BEHIND HIM AS HE BRAKED. It was no "accident". It was intentional.

If you are in NY and someone break checks you, you had better be scared. They are either looking for an insurance pay out or want to car jack you.

That guy had every reason to run him over. Those thugs were thugs and meant him harm from the get go.

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Response to MattBaggins (Reply #153)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:24 AM

156. He is not the one in the hospital.

He ran over someone else.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #156)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:28 AM

157. I stand corrected on that

but his fear was reasonable and he had every right to protect his family and flee from the violent sociopaths intent on harming him and his family.

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Response to newcriminal (Reply #156)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:31 AM

158. I'd have no problem with the driver running over the whole damn lot of them.

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Response to jsr (Reply #158)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 03:30 AM

183. You don't terrorize a family

With a baby in the vehicle. Once you cross that line, you deserve whatever the parent(s) have to do to stop you.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #183)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:53 PM

233. doesn't matter if there's a baby in the vehicle or not

And I'm not seeing how they would have been able to see that there was a baby in the vehicle. You don't do it to ANYONE... not a family, not a single man or single woman or a group of teenagers or an old lady or an old man - you don't do it to ANYONE. Just because this was a vehicle with a wife and child in the car doesn't make it any more heinous. You have no right to terrorize ANYONE on the road, and if you do you deserve whatever you get from a terrorized and panicked innocent driver.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:00 PM

106. One of my favorite sayings... "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

In the end, I come down on the RR driver's side here but anyone who's witnessed one of these wanna-be gangs in action knows the reason the confrontation started is because the RR didn't immediately yield the right-of-way to the punks the way they thought he should have. That was the reason for the "brake check" in the first place. Could be he'd never found himself in the middle of such a situation; had he simply slowed and gotten out of the way the whole thing could have been avoided. I hate having to say that, but there it is.

That said, they're not the first punks who've gone looking for trouble then screamed bloody murder when it found them, and they surely won't be the last. I have no sympathy for the injured biker or any wrecked bikes.

One thing that bothers me though is that in one of the videos they ride right past one of those portable police towers. I guess the NYPD isn't smart enough to coordinate blocking the road ahead, the side streets, and the way from which they came. It's fucking New York City for goodness sakes. It's right angles and city blocks. If they did, I bet they'd find 2/3 of the bikes were stolen, a large number of the punks were holdin', most of them probably had warrants, and few if any were licensed.

Gosh, they could have put an end to this bullshit for a couple of days, or at least until they stole new rides.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #106)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:24 PM

119. To lay any blame for this on the driver of the SUV is ridiculous.

As a former motorcycle driver, I always knew to drive defensively. That brake check was a dangerous and stupid thing to do. What right-of-way did the SUV driver fail to do. If I'm driving on an expressway, and not changing lanes, as what appears to be what the RR driver did, it's not my job to yield to anyone.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #119)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:51 PM

130. I'm not BLAMING the driver. Maybe you missed my saying possibly he'd never been in that situation.

I'm 52 and have been riding motorcycles on and off road since I was 10. My current ride is a Road King. Before that I rode a Ninja. The Road King (purchased new) has almost 25k miles on it and the Ninja (also purchased new) had almost 40k when I got off of it. Almost all of those miles in So. Cal. So I'm familiar with riding in traffic. I've never been on the pavement. No road rash here. Not once. I guess I know defensive riding.

The rider on the left front bumper put the RR driver in the situation where he rear-ended the bike, and the rider did it on purpose. That much is evident. And I know why he did it. He did it because of a PUNK'S notion that the RR driver should have given the group immediate right of way. In that situation, there's only ONE way to avoid a confrontation that at the very least gets you a broken mirror if you're in a four-wheeled vehicle, and that's to simply slow down and pull over. I've seen people leave that situation with broken mirrors, broken side windows, and broken windshields for not doing as much. The punks see anything less as an affront to their perceived dominant place on the road. They're LOOKING for trouble. Why give it to them?

As you say, it might not be your JOB to yield to anyone... but there are times when it's the PRUDENT thing to do, and this would have been one of those times. It's called being AWARE OF THE SITUATION you're in.

That doesn't mean I'm blaming the RR driver. Ignorance is not stupidity, it's lack of knowledge.

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #130)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:59 PM

139. I have never been in a situation either driving a car and being surrounded by

dozens of motorcycles or riding a motorcycle with dozens of other riders.

I suppose it would be prudent to pull over, but even if the guy was ignorant, which is highly likely, the entire episode is 100% the fault of the motorcycle gang.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #119)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:55 PM

136. Agreed, thank you

Those bikers are not following any of the rules of the road.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:02 PM

107. I kind of hate to see the term "bikers" used to describe these guys. I was expecting

to see what I think of when I think of "bikers". I was glad it was not. I'm a friend of and do business with many bikers. These are the old school type that ride Harley's and may or may not belong to a club. Most of the bikers I know have long since given up any real club affiliation and just ride to rallies with a small group of friends.

The clubs that do show up at the rallies I attend are pretty tame. In my part of the northwest we don't see much criminal activity related to biker clubs. These old guys I know aren't running around like "The Son's of Anarchy". There's hardly enough time in the day to be that bad assed of a bad assed biker, even if they wanted to! One might be careful around any of "The Gypsy Jokers" though. I'm not aware of any recent trouble in my region from even those guys though.

Driving my blood center bus one day I saw a large formation of Harley's coming up a freeway on ramp. Traffic was light and it was only two lanes right there so I slid over and gave them the right lane. I saw it was a club called "Mother Speed" heading somewhere. Those guys saw I gave them the lane and gave me all kinds of thumbs ups and salutes. Evidently they like the blood centers and fell in formation in front and behind me. I never met any of those guys before, they are more af Pacific coast club I think. Anyway I had an escort for about 50 miles. I'd never be the slightest bit nervous about that kind of bikers.

Those assholes teaming up on the crotch rockets really bother me. I wouldn't be surprised if some real east coast bikers don't go after them and stomp their asses! They have to be organized. They can't be too hard to find.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:25 PM

120. This story appears to shed some light on the

biker gangs of NYC and their recent behavior on the road.

http://www.wnd.com/2013/10/black-biker-gang-beats-suv-driver-in-nyc/

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #120)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:37 PM

125. WND? They're trying to make this a black biker gang???

I think they are waaaay off there.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #125)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:53 PM

131. I don't really know anything about the source.

It does appear this shit with these gangs on motorcycles have been pulling stunts for a while.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #131)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:58 PM

137. All that is true, they are a lawless lot, but multicultural. Link to SUV running over bike video:

One an see the color of skin of riders arms, some dark, some light, some in between.

From my experience living in NYC, I'd guess that Meezee might be Dominican or mixed race, not black per se.

In any event, worldnetdaily is a notoriously biased RW news source.

BTW, here's an article with more footage than I've seen before, including a better shot of the "brake check" and the SUV actually running over the bike.

http://www.rightthisminute.com//video/biker-speaks-out-biker-suv-incident-nyc

I would have run the hell out of there myself, and hopefully not into a traffic jam like that poor dude did.

I'd have stayed on the highway and done whatever I could to get a Trooper to pull me over, and I'd be on my cell phone big time.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #137)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 03:42 AM

185. i believe mezees mother is hispanic , and the crowd looked mixed up different races to me also

not really about anything than a bunch of thugs who seemed to have gotten away with their behavior for too long . and still are .

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Response to JI7 (Reply #185)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:31 PM

226. A rainbow coalition of the shitheaded

Just proves that race is no barrier to being a scumbag.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #125)

Tue Oct 1, 2013, 11:53 PM

132. In the videos I saw riders of all sort of nationalites

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #132)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:20 AM

152. Yup, me too.

But you know wnd. Any chance they can find to make something racial, they will.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #120)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:41 AM

166. "Their intent is to intimidate, to harass and to cause an altercation."

NYPD needs to break up these gangs.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #120)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 03:50 PM

243. wnd? seriously?

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #243)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 04:25 PM

248. You're a day late.

See post #131.

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Response to Jenoch (Reply #248)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 04:32 PM

253. Yeah, it's not like you have any power to edit your post or something...

I'll give WND 24 hours before they find a way to tie these sportbike hoons to Obama or some other Dem...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #253)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 05:14 PM

258. I don't generally edit my posts after they

have been responded to. That link was the first time I have run across WND.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:45 AM

169. The bikers appear to think they're in a Mad Max movie. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #169)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:37 AM

192. OK, then. Lots of them got killed doing stupid shit in that movie.

Let real life follow suit until Darwin is satisfied.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:07 AM

172. my take on this

Last edited Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:38 AM - Edit history (1)

It's early days and facts are still missing and/or confused.

With that caveat said, my take:

1- Was the RR driver honking at the bikers ? I have read that.

2- Even if he was honking at them, it did not justify the one biker "brake checking" him, causing the bike and RR to collide. I've read the bikers were trying to seal off the highway for their amusement ?

3- From the videos I've seen, I can't tell if they are damaging his vehicle or threatening him and his family. The police, I think, have said that.

eta:
"They take their helmets and start to dent his car, and apparently his tires are slashed there with a knife," Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/01/20772232-1-biker-charged-another-critical-in-nyc-range-rover-chase?lite

4- IF....he and his family were not in any conceivable danger, he completely overreacted. That's a big IF. I sure wouldn't like to be surrounded by 30 bikers who *might* have been irritated or angry at me. Were they simply curious about what had happened ? Again, I don't know.

5- IF...he and his family WERE being endangered....I can understand his panic. Can he legally run over and seriously injure a nearby biker because of that "legitimate panic" ? I don't know and I sure don't know New York state law.

6- It's puzzling why the police did not intervene sooner. Granted, they were driving fast and maybe in NYC traffic it's asking too much to intervene that quickly, even if he had called 911. Did he call 911 ?

Like I said at first, very early days.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:07 AM

173. As a daily rider, I can tell you all with confidence that those riders are assholes...

And ultimately got exactly what they asked for.

This happens all the time. In rider circles, we call them squids and some of them are just too stupid for safety. They ride in large groups, stunt on open roads, harass traffic and then attack anyone who does anything wrong.

I feel absolutely zero sympathy for any of them.

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Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #173)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:22 AM

176. Zero sympathy for the guy who was only tending to a downed rider when he too got mowed

down? Interesting. By the way, he had nothing to do with the "brake check" nor the confrontation. He's currently in a coma, and if he ever wakes up, he'll learn that he's paralyzed.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #176)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:28 AM

177. He chose to ride with that group. I know those kind of groups.

When you ride in those groups, you know EXACTLY what you're getting yourself into. Those riders are criminals and thugs and that is the risk you run when you choose to associate with such people.

He put himself in the middle of that swarm, surrounded by assholes trying to harm the family in the car. He assumed the risk. Again, zero sympathy.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #176)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 02:53 AM

181. To steal from the post above "Play stupid games.. win stupid prizes..."

 

I'll throw in "Lie down with dogs and you gets fleas"

Fuck him and his stupid biker friends. They all deserve everything they got and more...

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Response to Decaffeinated (Reply #181)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 03:32 PM

241. Or, "If you act like an ass, don't be surprised when you get kicked." nt

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #176)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 03:52 AM

186. If you hang out with your stupid criminal buddies, doing stupid criminal shit

then no, you can't expect a lot of sympathy.

Just because he wasn't personally beating on the victim doesn't make him some innocent bystander. Even though I know it's a small minority, I can't believe some people here are siding with the bikers.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #176)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 04:15 AM

188. Let me try and find some sympathy here...

.....

......

Nah. Can't find even the tiniest smidgen of sympathy. In fact, the sympathy level is at the same point as it was for the rapist in the UK who found out his victim was HIV positive. Tough shit. Make really bad choices in life, don't expect any sympathy. And 'tending to a downed rider' is supposed to make people think he's a nice helpful person? Bullshit on that. If he was a decent person he wouldn't have been involved in terrorising a family like that.

My sympathies are where they rightfully belong. With the family that was terrorised, especially that little girl who had to see those fuckwits beating up her father...

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #176)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 07:45 AM

193. A little info on this jerk, from The Boston Globe.

Though Mieses is a Massachusetts resident, he has never had a valid Massachusetts driver’s license for a passenger vehicle and has never applied for a motorcycle license, the Registry of Motor Vehicles said.

Registry records show that Mieses applied for a learner’s permit in 1999 and 2000, but that he never obtained a full license because he failed to pay fines imposed after he was ticketed for speeding in Lawrence in 1999. His last contact with the Registry was in 2001, when he obtained an identification card, registry records show.

Since 1999, he has been ticketed by police 16 times, in Lawrence, Methuen, Roxbury, Andover, and New Hampshire, according to registry records.

In June, the Registry notified the National Driver Register that Mieses was a habitual traffic offender whose right to drive in Massachusetts was revoked until 2017, records show.



Yep, he was engaged in a criminal activity at the time he was hit.

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #176)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 11:44 AM

211. "Tending to a downed rider"

Just like the other guys "wanted to see what the problem was".

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #176)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 12:23 PM

217. This group of thugs has a history this type of behavior.

They deliberately go on the road, disobey the rules, antagonize other drivers, cause accidents, then threaten their victims.
Throw the book at these bastards.

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 08:12 AM

195. I would have ran over as many of them as I could! Too bad they didn't try that with an 18 wheeler!

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Response to Dawson Leery (Original post)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 08:27 AM

197. New Story of Motorcycle Rampage Emerges as One Biker Turns Self In

http://gawker.com/new-story-of-motorcycle-rampage-emerges-as-one-biker-tu-1436490991



One of the motorcyclists involved in this weekend's violent New York City road rage incident, in which dozens of bikers clashed with a man in an SUV on the West Side Highway, has turned himself in to police as authorities continue investigating just what the hell happened.

New York's NBC 4 reports that an unnamed man seen punching the rear window of Alexian Lien's Range Rover turned himself in at a Queen's precinct earlier today. Police had already taken into custody 28-year-old Christopher Cruz, who they allege started the confrontation by swerving in front of Lien's vehicle and slamming on his brakes, causing Lien, who had his wife and child with him in the car, to nudge his back tire. That bump precipitated the real deterioration of the interaction.

Police claim that, after Lien pulled over following the fender bender, the motorcyclists began to damage his car, smashing it with their fists and helmets and slashing the tires, according to the New York Daily News. To escape, Lien slammed on his gas pedal, running over at least three motorcycles and a man, Edwin Mieses, who suffered two broken legs and is now in a medically-induced coma (Mieses' family say the 32-year-old has also been paralyzed from the waist down).

Cruz and other motorcyclists would embark on a high-speed chase to catch the fleeing Lien. That ended when the bikers surrounded the car, smashed out the driver's side window, pulled Lien from his seat, and assaulted him.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #197)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 10:13 AM

202. Thanks for adding an update.

Finally, somebody did the right thing and turned himself in.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #202)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 10:15 AM

203. most welcome !

At first I wasn't really interested in this story, but now I'm waiting for all the details to roll in. It sounds like he and his family were terrified. I had no idea this kind of thing goes on.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #203)

Wed Oct 2, 2013, 10:22 AM

205. To hear J. Meezee's mom tell it, they're just kids doing the normal end of summer thing.