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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDianne Feinstein Accidentally Confirms That NSA Tapped The Internet Backbone
Dianne Feinstein Accidentally Confirms That NSA Tapped The Internet Backbone
It's widely known that the NSA has taps connected to the various telco networks, thanks in large part to AT&T employee Mark Klein who blew the whistle on AT&T's secret NSA room in San Francisco. What was unclear was exactly what kind of access the NSA had. Various groups like the EFF and CDT have both been asking the administration to finally come clean, in the name of transparency, if they're tapping backbone networks to snarf up internet communications like email. So far, the administration has declined to elaborate. Back in August, when the FISA court declassified its ruling about NSA violations, the third footnote, though heavily redacted, did briefly discuss this "upstream" capability:
..............during Thursday's Senate Intelligence Committee hearing, Dianne Feinstein more or less admitted that they get emails via "upstream" collection methods. As you can see in the following clip, Feinstein interrupts a discussion to read a prepared "rebuttal" to a point being made, and in doing so clearly says that the NSA can get emails via upstream collections:
She clearly means "backbone"rather than "background." She's discussing this in an attempt to defend the NSA's "accidental" collection of information it shouldn't have had. But that point is not that important. Instead, the important point is that she's now admitted what most people suspected, but which the administration has totally avoided admitting for many, many years since the revelations made by Mark Klein.
So, despite years of trying to deny that the NSA can collect email and other communications directly from the backbone (rather than from the internet companies themselves), Feinstein appears to have finally let the cat out of the bag, perhaps without realizing it.
MORE:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130927/13562624678/dianne-feinstein-accidentally-confirms-that-nsa-tapped-internet-backbone.shtml
and:
http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/09/27/whoa-whoa-whoa-stop-dianne-feinstein-misstates-the-2011-violations/#more-38428
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)good one!
Bolo Boffin
(23,796 posts)Saves a ton of work for the rest of us.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)Oops.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)Once it went public in a way that couldn't be stifled, it was over. The more they talk, the more we know...mostly because they never planned to have to defend against this. They just did it and assumed they could keep doing it forever, even as they have been using the "secret evidence" or parallel intel to put people in jail.
"We're just too cool to be questioned..."
90-percent
(6,829 posts)Fifty years from now, there will probably be statues of heroic patriot Mark Klein peppered about the USA. Klein, you may remember, revealed the NSA's secret room in San Francisco and the man that helped trigger the dismantling of the overblown police state apparatus that had been under construction for many years prior. We honor a patriot that steered America back to check and balance Democracy.
-90% Jimmy
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I wish I agreed with you that the whistle blowers will some day be recognized as heroes but I doubt it. The current trend is to intimidate, jail, and hunt them down to extinction. With the big money in politics and big Corp control over politics growing by the hour, there's no way imho, that whistle blowers will ever get the statues...
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)There will always those that are willing to give up their freedom for the freedom of the rest.
quakerboy
(13,919 posts)But the guys in charge of actually doing this stuff will be the next generation of Kissengers, to be consulted in the halls of power no matter how bad what they have done may be.
Uncle Joe
(58,349 posts)Thanks for the thread, kpete.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)nt.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)I mean we are so distracted with threats of war and economic suicide who will say anything?
And once it is said it becomes old news and then becomes acceptable to democrats and republicans alike...because there is a law or something that says if you don't complain when it happens they you have to STFU about it.
The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." ... "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that realityjudiciously, as you willwe'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors and you, all of you, will be left to just study
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)to say, "yes we spy, and there is nothing you can do about it." I think Pres Obama has already been given that message.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)or even past the tipping point...for all we know.
If Obama has any dirt in his past they probably know about it...so he will do what they tell him to.
It is like the Zappa saying, that they will maintain the illusion as long as it is profitable to do so...then they lift the curtain.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)him that he has no power to alter their programs or personnel.
I agree with Zappa.
tblue37
(65,326 posts)Jimmy Carter said it was how little power the president really has.
formercia
(18,479 posts)I ONLY REGRET THAT I HAVE BUT ONE LIFE TO LOSE FOR MY COUNTRY
NATHAN HALE
CAPTAIN
ARMY OF THE UNITED STATES
BORN AT COVENTRY CONNECTICUT
JUNE 6, 1755
IN THE PERFORMANCE OF HIS
DUTY HE RESIGNED HIS
LIFE A SACRIFICE TO
HIS COUNTRY'S LIBERTY
AT NEW YORK
SEPTEMBER 22, 1776
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Nathan_Hale_%28statue%29
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)I just got a bunch of cool pictures.
What gives?
edit - it appears to be Google's 15th Birthday today. At least the "doodle" says so.
edit - got a 146 as my high score
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Conium
(119 posts)Or is Sen. Feinstein declassifying U.S. spy secrets "on the fly" like former vice president Dick Cheney?
mythology
(9,527 posts)Prisms split light signals which is what was set up in the room in AT&T in San Francisco. The NSA set up a fiber optic splitter so they could get a carbon copy of the data being sent through AT&T as a Tier 1 internet service provider. There are several others of these Tier 1 ISPs and they sell to Google, Microsoft, etc and to the local ISPs like Comcast or whoever, who then sell to us.
To tap the internet, it's a lot easier to go to the handful of Tier 1 ISPs and install fiber optic splitters than it is to bother with National Security Letters or creating backdoors in software.
Director of Intelligence James Clapper should absolutely be fired, arrested and convicted for going to Congress and saying that the government didn't have this capability.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)jazzimov
(1,456 posts)First of all, upstream collection by the NSA is a well-known fact.
Secondly, Mark Klein revelations was about programs that happened under BUSH in 2006, and helped lead to the investigation by Congress and the new law passed by congress in 2008
The conclusion of DiFi's statement from YOUR second link:
This bundling is done by Internet companies in order to make it easier to send information quickly over the telecom lines that make up the Internet. Unfortunately, NSAs technical systems could not easily separate the individual messages within these bundles. And the result was that NSA collected some e-mail messages it did not intend to acquire..
OK. We held a lengthy hearing on the courts ruling on October 20, 2011, at which General Alexander and Lisa Monaco then the assistant attorney general for national security described the courts ruling and what they were doing to address it.
Heres my point: It was a mistake. Action was taken immediately to correct it. It came to us. We took action
- See more at: http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/09/27/whoa-whoa-whoa-stop-dianne-feinstein-misstates-the-2011-violations/#more-38428
Granted the OPINION piece then goes to say that "immediate" is laughable, because the incident happened in 2008 - under BUSH.
The real issue here is that the problem was FIXED before Snowden's "revelations".
randome
(34,845 posts)In any issue like this, the very first thing that should cross the mind of someone who is objective is: 'How can I be wrong about this?'
The same way you fully test a software app by trying your damnedest to break it.
Unfortunately, too many see and hear what they want on the first reading and don't take those extra steps to fine-tune their conclusions.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Virtually every network switch and router installed by US telcos and ISPs must have the capability of being tapped (signal recorded or diverted to a "trusted third-party" since that 1995 Act was passed.
That's how the NSA does it. The answer is hiding in plain sight.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Nov-09-07
Are ALL COMMUNICATIONS routed overseas to circumvent US law and the Constitution?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2245762
Is that Bush's and the Telecom's HUGE crime hidden and covered-up behind this story?
If the telecoms get immunity, will it aid in covering up Bush's crime.
ABSOLUTELY! That is why it is so important to the Rs! Support = obstruction of justice.
Have we arrived at the point in the history of the Bushco junta where
laws passed and people nominated are part of crimes of obstructing justice?
.........
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It's just magic to her. That is what I think.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)progressoid
(49,978 posts)kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)Guess she'll have to flee the country now...
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)WovenGems
(776 posts)I have perfected time travel and am selling one way tickets. Now where be those dreaded men in black? See? Write what you will.