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Thu Sep 19, 2013, 06:45 PM

This is NOT a Democracy it's a Republic

Last edited Thu Sep 19, 2013, 08:13 PM - Edit history (1)

Congressman Doug Collins of Georgia??
Al Sharpton to Collins: I'll send you a tape of you saying that to play for your people back home


Here's the whole segment which should make more sense

34 replies, 1462 views

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply This is NOT a Democracy it's a Republic (Original post)
cal04 Sep 2013 OP
bluestate10 Sep 2013 #1
hobbit709 Sep 2013 #25
Graybeard Sep 2013 #2
OnyxCollie Sep 2013 #3
JackRiddler Sep 2013 #4
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #6
JackRiddler Sep 2013 #8
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #10
SamKnause Sep 2013 #5
kentuck Sep 2013 #7
JackRiddler Sep 2013 #9
NuclearDem Sep 2013 #11
Proud Liberal Dem Sep 2013 #12
Art_from_Ark Sep 2013 #20
Proud Liberal Dem Sep 2013 #22
Art_from_Ark Sep 2013 #23
Proud Liberal Dem Sep 2013 #24
Art_from_Ark Sep 2013 #27
Proud Liberal Dem Sep 2013 #31
OnyxCollie Sep 2013 #34
Fantastic Anarchist Sep 2013 #13
NuclearDem Sep 2013 #15
Fantastic Anarchist Sep 2013 #16
grantcart Sep 2013 #19
Fantastic Anarchist Sep 2013 #32
earthside Sep 2013 #29
Fantastic Anarchist Sep 2013 #33
Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2013 #14
YoungDemCA Sep 2013 #17
no_hypocrisy Sep 2013 #18
malaise Sep 2013 #21
gopiscrap Sep 2013 #26
immoderate Sep 2013 #28
MFrohike Sep 2013 #30

Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 06:50 PM

1. That the country is a Republic is a favorite teabagger claim. They need to pull out a

dictionary and read up on what "Republic" means.

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Response to bluestate10 (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 09:27 PM

25. first you have to teach them to read.

They're proud of the willful ignorance.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:00 PM

2. Rev Al won't let them get away with that stuff.

I like that Sharpton has RWers on his show. He exposes them as frauds and then they say insane things that Rev Al calls them on immediately.
.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:03 PM

3. Like the Republic of Iran, or the Congo, or the People's Republic of North Korea?

Watch the heads explode.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:11 PM

4. What are the first words in the Constitution?

We the People. That means democracy. Not that there is a necessary contradiction between the concept of democracy and that of a republic. Not that either has ever really existed in unconditional form.

The people are mentioned eight times in the US constitution, I believe, and a republic only twice.

However, the "Republic" fanatics do highlight an important reality: The 55 Federalists of 1787 wrote their Constitution with the intent of rolling back the more democratic system that had already existed under the Continental Congress since 1774. They were the ruling class of the time, and wanted to keep themselves in power. Thus the separately elected president as commander in chief, a Senate, an Electoral College, lifetime appointments to the high court, 3/5 clause and protection of slavery, ability of states to determine who is allowed to vote, and other anti-democratic features. And the democratic forces of the time resisted this plan, and at least forced the passage of a Bill of Rights. I call them the Founding People, and would have stood with them and not the Framers. Assuming of course I was even among the white males of the time, and had any say in the matter.

Republicans unfortunately have an ugly point about the Constitution of 1787. Luckily, it was open enough to allow some evolution of the democracy since then. But since the 1980s it's been going backward.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #4)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:14 PM

6. If I may, this was pushed by the Old Dominion reps

Who came from a far more aristocratic society than the Northern states who wanted a more democratic model.

I suspect this will be of interest to you

Oops forgot link

http://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0143122029

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:18 PM

8. Sure, you don't have to sell me on the North.

At least, as opposed to the South.

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Response to JackRiddler (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:19 PM

10. I started the book yesterday

Read a few academic articles on this. He does a good job.

I know you like to read

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:14 PM

5. Democracy or Republic

The facts show that the U.S. is neither a Democracy, or Republic.

The U.S. is an OLIGARCHY !!!!

The coup is almost complete.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:16 PM

7. In theory, it is a democratic republic.

In reality, it is something else entirely.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #7)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:18 PM

9. Plutocracy and global empire...

with occasional outbreaks of People Power. Man, do we need one today.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:22 PM

11. Technically, it's a constitutional republic that uses representative democracy.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:24 PM

12. Where did this meme start

and what point are the people saying trying to make exactly? I don't get it.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #12)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 08:41 PM

20. This sort of thing has been around since at least the '60s

I remember seeing a bumper sticker back in the late '60s that said "This is a REPUBLIC, NOT a democracy. Let's keep it that way!" People who believed like that were called "birchers" back then.

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #20)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 08:55 PM

22. Yeah

but what exactly is supposed to be the message?

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #22)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 09:18 PM

23. I have no idea!

It didn't make any sense to me then, it doesn't make any sense to me now

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #23)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 09:24 PM

24. I've heard it before from some right-wingers

I can only guess that they are using it to suggest that us peons somehow don't count and that THEY are (or will be) the ones making the decisions for the rest of us and that if we don't like we should just STFU. That's the only theory I have.

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #24)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 09:30 PM

27. That sounds entirely plausible

What makes me scratch my head is that that bumper sticker was attached to a beat-up station wagon that was parked at a low-rent duplex, so I'm pretty sure the owner wasn't among the decision-making elite.

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Response to Art_from_Ark (Reply #27)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 11:01 PM

31. Lot of teabaggers think they are (or will be at some undefined point in the future)

Last edited Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:38 AM - Edit history (1)

somehow

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Response to Proud Liberal Dem (Reply #12)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 03:08 PM

34. Republic equals Republican, democracy equals Democratic.

Or worse, democracy equals "Democrat Party."

So when someone says, "It's a republic, not a democracy," it's an easy way for that (RW) person to "win" by claiming superiority.

What I have encountered is that the people who say that are morons. Ask them how the US differs from the republic of Iran, or the Congo, or the People's Republic of North Korea.

But, Benghazi!

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:25 PM

13. A republic is essentially a representative democracy ...

... roughly speaking.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:30 PM

15. I think it's actually used to define any government that isn't a monarchy.

The republic=representative democracy idea came from Madison.

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Response to NuclearDem (Reply #15)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:32 PM

16. Yep ...

... roughly speaking, though, when reactionaries say this is a Republic, yes, it's not a monarchy, and then they can hear it from their hero that a Republic is essentially a representative democracy.

Then I can say, in my Ben Franklin accent, that we couldn't keep it!

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 08:35 PM

19. I think that the important distinction is that it is a Constitutional


Representative government with democratic elections.

Democracy is 51% rules, which could have no reserved rights for the minority.

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Response to grantcart (Reply #19)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 07:58 AM

32. I agree ...

Hence, the "roughly" in my post.

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Response to Fantastic Anarchist (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 10:15 PM

29. Representative of what?

That's the problem with a 'republic'.

The PRC is certainly a 'republic' ... however, there is only one party so only Communist Party members can ever be elected to government office; they do have elections in 'Red' China so it is a 'republic'.

So, the two terms are not exclusive of one another as some right-wingers would have us believe.

You can have a 'republic' that is an elected dictatorship because sovereignty is held by one party or one clique of powerful people -- not a democracy.
Or you can have a genuine 'democratic republic' where the sovereignty resides with all of the people.

I think that theoretically, as we were all taught in eighth grade civics, the USA is a democratic republic.

Whenever I hear this "we are a republic, not a democracy' line come-up, I know immediately that I'm dealing with a John Bircher or some other sundry right-wing fanatic.

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Response to earthside (Reply #29)

Fri Sep 20, 2013, 08:00 AM

33. I agree with you.

My point was that they are not mutually exclusive, and that while they can take separate forms, as it applies to the United States, we are essentially a representative democracy, or Republic (and as grantcart stated, more specifically, a constitutional Republic to preserve rights for the minority.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:27 PM

14. It's not paradise, but it's turning into a parade ground.

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 07:43 PM

17. America in practice is not a democracy...

nt

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 08:31 PM

18. Specifically this country is a constitutional republic.

The purpose of a Constitutional Republic is to place limits on the tyranny of the majority.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Constitutional_Republic

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 08:42 PM

21. Saw that live

What an awful human being.
I'd have shut him up much earlier

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 09:29 PM

26. dumb fucking teabagger

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 09:47 PM

28. The land of equivocation!

Some words are beloved by debaters, deniers, and equivocators. Equivocation, for the naive, is taking advantage of a word with multiple definitions for rhetorical advantage.

In this case, it's something like:

republic; n.
  1. any government that's not a monarchy, as in Soviet, Chinese, French, etc.
  2. a representative democracy, as opposed to a direct democracy


Most right wingers like to deny the democratic aspects of this country.

--imm

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Response to cal04 (Original post)

Thu Sep 19, 2013, 10:41 PM

30. I hate that line

It's like claiming an animal isn't dog because it's a Chihuahua. This is what happens when stupid people try to play lawyer and parse language.

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