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Tue Sep 17, 2013, 12:13 PM

Critical detail about the navy yard shooting.

He was seeking treatment for hearing voices. He passed a background check, he retained his clearance. But, but, but...the video games.

So we have yet another individual who fell through our wonderful cracks in our mental health system.

As to the video games, I see that as an excuse not to do what needs to be done with both mental health and gun legislation. But we live in a crazy country that likes simple explanations to complex problems, so prepare yourselves, *it is the video games.*

37 replies, 2452 views

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Arrow 37 replies Author Time Post
Reply Critical detail about the navy yard shooting. (Original post)
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 OP
Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #1
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #4
sufrommich Sep 2013 #5
SidDithers Sep 2013 #8
sufrommich Sep 2013 #20
temporary311 Sep 2013 #9
Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #10
upaloopa Sep 2013 #2
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #3
upaloopa Sep 2013 #6
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #7
SidDithers Sep 2013 #11
dionysus Sep 2013 #21
sad-cafe Sep 2013 #33
upaloopa Sep 2013 #12
Chan790 Sep 2013 #15
LineLineLineLineLineLineLineNew Reply !
dionysus Sep 2013 #36
zappaman Sep 2013 #14
maddezmom Sep 2013 #22
MH1 Sep 2013 #13
oldhippie Sep 2013 #17
FLyellowdog Sep 2013 #18
maddezmom Sep 2013 #25
FLyellowdog Sep 2013 #37
HolyMoley Sep 2013 #16
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #24
jeff47 Sep 2013 #31
Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #32
krispos42 Sep 2013 #19
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #23
krispos42 Sep 2013 #27
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #28
sad-cafe Sep 2013 #35
OneGrassRoot Sep 2013 #26
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #29
Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #34
Vanje Sep 2013 #30

Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 12:26 PM

1. Tip of iceberg. Was just reading:

... Rarely will reporters bother to look into this. Itís dicey for them. Exposing pharmaceutical companies and their horrendously toxic drugs is bad for business.

Imagine this front-page NY Times headline: ďFour leading physicians state that, in all likelihood, the shooter was on one of the SSRI antidepressants, which can and do push people over into violence, including murder.Ē

Sub-head: ďThe doctors vow to press the authorities until they get to the bottom of the psychiatric-homicide connection.Ē

Sure. Thatís going to happen when a rooster flies a spaceship to the Orion Belt...

/... https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/


... Hat tip, this young person: http://honeythatsok.com/

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 12:37 PM

4. We have in the past.

And I should start to maintain a Dbase of this. In order to make that case as a reporter not only medical research, but we need that data.

So thank you, I think. After I write the stories this morning I know what I will start, that database.

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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 12:44 PM

5. SSRI anti depressants are not restricted to the U.S.

Why don't you explain to me why this fact does not result in mass murder in other countries? It's a stupid distraction from our gun problem,nothing more or less.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:06 PM

8. I called it at 10:21 this morning...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3683052

And you're right. It is a stupid distraction from the gun problem. We saw the same deflection after Sandy Hook too.

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #8)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:50 PM

20. If only the chief medical officer had put the blame on SSRIs where it really

belongs,as opposed to the absence of sane gun laws.She must be a tool of big pharma.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:07 PM

9. Not many other countries

have the ease of access to weapons capable of easy mass murder like they do here.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:07 PM

10. It's one of many factors...

... And the gun (-mentality) problem is another big one, alright.

(Edit: ... And the 'videogames (not to mention msm-tv)-mentality' too!

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 12:27 PM

2. If someone has a cold and goes to work and infects others

do we say they fell through the cracks of our medical system?
You can't force people to seek mental health treatment and you can't have access to their medical records if they do. Only those in locked facilities like IMDs and State hospitals could have gun rights denied.
Using this mental health argument sounds good but is not a real solution.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 12:33 PM

3. In this case he looked for it



Did not get it.

And within mental health there are these things called involuntary 72 hour holds, and hard as nails to do anymore, involuntary commitment. I actually blame Reagan for making it next to impossible and emptying the hospitals. .

Comparing full blown psychosis with a cold is not even in apples oranges category, but rather in vegetable rock category. And you are not even close.

Oh and one last thing. Even under HIPA there are exceptions. Doctors who are treating somebody who might be dangerous to others have a duty to report, just as there is a duty to report both child and elder abuse.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:01 PM

6. Your talking to somebody here who works

for an alcohol, drug, and mental health services department of a CA county.
You're wrong on so many facts.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:06 PM

7. ok, I am wrong

lets do nothing then. Because I am wrong.

Have a good day. And what should we get? A gun a day or two? I prefer a fully automatic weapon, cause you know the semi are not fast enough

And you are correct, he did not seek treatment. And all the reports to the contrary are getting pulled out of asses by the media.

Have an excellent day. Oh and good bye.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:08 PM

11. ...



Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:50 PM

21. screencap it Sid, i think this is the first time nostradumus admitted to being wrong on something!

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Response to dionysus (Reply #21)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 07:47 PM

33. but still put the person with true facts on her precious ploink

 

"you want facts, You can't handle the facts"

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:10 PM

12. Why is it we say the media sucks until

we like something reported?

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:15 PM

15. Did you really just ask a journalist that?

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Response to Chan790 (Reply #15)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 08:20 PM

36. !

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:12 PM

14. +1! n/t

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 02:07 PM

22. Your might want to read this

Although he recently began seeking mental health treatment through the Veteranís Administration, seeking treatment and even having a diagnosed mental illness donít disqualify someone from purchasing a gun.

Since 1968, federal law has prohibited the sale of guns to anyone declared mentally unfit. But first, a court has to decide someone is unfitóa very high standard. Then, the residentís state is supposed to supply the mental-health records to a Federal Bureau of Investigation database, created in 1998 to help carry out background checks of would-be gun buyers.

A diagnosis of mental illness by itself isnít enough to bar a gun purchase, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which enforces gun laws. Voluntary commitments and mental-health assessments are not disqualifiers either.

A person has to be adjudicated mentally ill or be involuntarily committed to enter the prohibited category.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/09/17/aaron-alexiss-gun-purchase-in-virginia-appears-legal/

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:11 PM

13. He had a history of incidents with guns and was ok to buy a shotgun in VA

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/09/17/victims-named-in-dc-navy-yard-shooting

I'm not a fan of shooter type video games, but I think the gun accessibility - for someone with a history of violence - is a far bigger issue.

If he'd been delayed in getting the gun at that time, who knows, maybe he would have received effective treatment or some how else turned away, before he succeeded in obtaining a gun and killing a dozen random people. Maybe he would have ended up killing eventually anyway, but THIS spree might have been avoided. The innocent people going about their daily lives deserve that chance of averting tragedy.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:17 PM

17. But apparently no convictions .....

 

.. so I am not sure that a NICS check would deny him. Lots of people get arrested on bogus charges (like my son) by a crooked cop, but have the charges dropped when the DA gets involved. Those bogus arrests should not be held against anyone.

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Response to oldhippie (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:34 PM

18. A guy shoots out tires...people see him do this...

he claims he blacked out and has no recollection...and no one thinks he should be prosecuted?

This, my friends, is the problem. Any misuse of a firearm, whether accidental or intentional, should be prosecuted. Period.

If the argument about gun control stands on the premise that such laws would infringe upon the "responsible gun owner's" right to bear arms, somewhere society has to define exactly what "responsible gun ownership" entails.

I agree that bogus arrests shouldn't be held against anyone, but that idea doesn't seem to apply to this particular shooter.

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Response to FLyellowdog (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 02:17 PM

25. Not to mention his discharging his weapon while cooking

I think law enforcement or the DA's in this cases also hold some responsibility.

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Response to maddezmom (Reply #25)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 08:59 PM

37. Absolutely. nt

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:16 PM

16. Blaming video games for violent behavior

 

is like blaming porn for rape or disrespect towards women.

Neither is a root or direct cause for the behavior or resulting actions, but at the very least, there is some element of desensitizing influence that the behavior is normal or acceptable.

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Response to HolyMoley (Reply #16)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 02:10 PM

24. What it is is a simple "common sense" explanation

ergo a valid one. We are a society that hates complexity.

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Response to HolyMoley (Reply #16)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 03:07 PM

31. Yeah, not so much.

but at the very least, there is some element of desensitizing influence that the behavior is normal or acceptable.

Nope.

Studies show a short-term desensitization. But after 30 minutes, it goes away. Long-term, "gamers" show significantly less violent tendencies than the population-at-large.

Violent video games is just the latest "blame the media". It used to be music. Tipper Gore helped us carefully label music to protect the kids. Before that, it was TV. And we now have all those TV ratings to protect us. Before that, it was movies. And we have all those movie ratings to protect us. Before that, comic books. Before that, 'regular' books. And so on. I'm reasonably sure that some ancient Greek blamed Homer's epics for violence. But you'll note none of those media were banned - each one just stopped being the target of blame as a new form of media arose.

People have believed that mass media turns people violent for many decades now. The fact that these same people keep having to change what media is responsible for such a conversion doesn't seem to hurt their ability to blame media. They don't seem to notice the change.

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Response to HolyMoley (Reply #16)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 03:39 PM

32. So, good question: Why indeed is there so much rape and/or disrespect towards women

in your/our cultures?

(Apart from, you know, the 'mental' stuff it's easier to let others (eg. tv) do for one)?

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 01:37 PM

19. I'm waiting for "angry black man", myself.

Entitlement, reverse racism...

I can trust Limp-bough to be all over this, yes?

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Response to krispos42 (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 02:09 PM

23. I am not sure Rush will go there. Mostly he is already in hot water

with his radio distribution system due to the Fluke mess. But Savage (Weiner) probably will. I can also count on my local fire breather to do that.

For Rush it might be a bad idea from I want to stay on the air perspective. I might loathe the man, but he is not dumb.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #23)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 02:49 PM

27. That nutcase, Alex Jones, is already calling it a false-flag operation.



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Response to krispos42 (Reply #27)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 02:51 PM

28. He broke records on this

And made it about himself

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 07:50 PM

35. made it about himself

 

Humm

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 02:18 PM

26. $13.26 billion industry in the US in 2012

I figure it always comes down to money, right? I'd be surprised if anyone got any serious momentum (not that there needs to be, of course) against video games. But I hear you that they'll try to use it as a diversion.

Anyway, I was curious about video game revenue vs. gun revenue

Regarding video games: "For the full year, 2012, sales were $13.26 billion, down from $16.998 billion."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavitz/2013/01/11/totally-pwned-2012-u-s-video-game-retail-sales-tumble-22/



"The estimated economic impact of the US firearms industry in 2012 is $31.8 billion, according to data from the National Shooting Sports Foundation."

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2012/1217/US-gun-industry-is-thriving.-Seven-key-figures/31.8-billion


THAT'S A LOT OF MONEY!!!!

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Response to OneGrassRoot (Reply #26)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 02:54 PM

29. Yes. Both are a lot of money

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 07:48 PM

34. And that's without counting the DoD

etc. spending...

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Original post)

Tue Sep 17, 2013, 02:56 PM

30. Yeah.

Hearing voices, and experiencing "rage black-outs".

Give that guy a gun!

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