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Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:38 PM

Obama didn't stop the war on Syrians, WE DID. By we, I mean the peace advocates on this board, and

elsewhere.

Those who wrote and called our representatives.

Those that demonstrated.

Those that spoke out against the insane notion of launching an unprovoked attack on Syria in clear violation of international law.

We did it. The American people. We were against it from the start and no amount of lobbying for lobbing missiles would deter us.

It ain't some genius move by Obama - It's him bowing the the intense and overwhelming pressure from the people he is supposed to represent, and the community of sane, peace loving people the world over.


I support him support him 100% in his current efforts to do what we told him by finding a peaceful solution to this debacle; so that we can get on to solving the real problems in this country by returning to the tax rates of the greatest generation, getting medicare for all, curbing CEO pay, ending low wage monopolies, busting up the bankster gangs, and decreasing our bloated military budget, ending costly trade agreements and the like.

Thanks all, and PEACE!

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Reply Obama didn't stop the war on Syrians, WE DID. By we, I mean the peace advocates on this board, and (Original post)
grahamhgreen Sep 2013 OP
SomethingFishy Sep 2013 #1
uhnope Sep 2013 #69
SunSeeker Sep 2013 #93
uhnope Sep 2013 #113
grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #186
uhnope Sep 2013 #221
Sheepshank Sep 2013 #112
kardonb Sep 2013 #117
treestar Sep 2013 #134
snappyturtle Sep 2013 #138
uhnope Sep 2013 #144
cynzke Sep 2013 #210
great white snark Sep 2013 #140
rhett o rick Sep 2013 #158
Live and Learn Sep 2013 #172
uhnope Sep 2013 #214
rhett o rick Sep 2013 #216
uhnope Sep 2013 #220
joshcryer Sep 2013 #159
mythology Sep 2013 #162
Sunlei Sep 2013 #2
Fantastic Anarchist Sep 2013 #3
RiverStone Sep 2013 #4
Raksha Sep 2013 #66
polichick Sep 2013 #5
frazzled Sep 2013 #6
SomethingFishy Sep 2013 #18
leftynyc Sep 2013 #24
frazzled Sep 2013 #31
arewenotdemo Sep 2013 #53
go west young man Sep 2013 #100
Skidmore Sep 2013 #36
Revlon10 Sep 2013 #188
another_liberal Sep 2013 #109
frazzled Sep 2013 #142
another_liberal Sep 2013 #147
beerandjesus Sep 2013 #208
another_liberal Sep 2013 #236
treestar Sep 2013 #135
woo me with science Sep 2013 #7
ancianita Sep 2013 #8
Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #9
cherokeeprogressive Sep 2013 #11
bhikkhu Sep 2013 #168
The Straight Story Sep 2013 #10
truedelphi Sep 2013 #44
The Straight Story Sep 2013 #47
truedelphi Sep 2013 #87
LuvLoogie Sep 2013 #152
avaistheone1 Sep 2013 #157
LuvLoogie Sep 2013 #164
Fumesucker Sep 2013 #191
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rhett o rick Sep 2013 #199
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DirkGently Sep 2013 #205
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grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #241
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kelliekat44 Sep 2013 #233

Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:41 PM

1. Can't argue... have been thinking the same thing

in spite of the catcalls and name calling from the defenders of the faith, I believe the backlash against military action is what caused this new "option". Why this option was not explored years ago or weeks ago is beyond me..

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:17 PM

69. I can. Most were for isolationism, no pressure on Assad, no care about arms bans

being antiwar is supposed to be principled, not mindless. But most on these boards were against doing anything and if they'd had their way, Assad would not be talking about giving up his chemical weapons now.

Obama took a principled, complicated, and gutsy stand, despite the unthinking howls that were often prompted by ODS, ignorance, isolationism, and an inability to separate in their minds Obama in 2013 from Bush in 2005

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Response to uhnope (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:32 PM

93. +1

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #93)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:59 PM

113. "peace advocates" and appeasers were very hard to tell apart, furthermore.

and I helped organize the first antiwar rally in my city previous to the US invasion of Iraq

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Response to uhnope (Reply #113)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:48 AM

186. An appeaser is someone who gives known torturers a pardon.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #186)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 05:09 PM

221. that would go in the ODS category

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Response to uhnope (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:58 PM

112. +2

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Response to uhnope (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:09 PM

117. isolationism

bravo , uhnope ! Finally someone with sense , mot mindless Obama-bashing . Kudos !!!

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Response to uhnope (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:40 PM

134. +1

casting this as an "unprovoked attack on Syria" is just plain insane. And enables Assad to use chemical weapons! What is principled about that?

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Response to uhnope (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:52 PM

138. I'm afaid of this statement Putin put out this afternoon.

After he did he canceled a UN meeting he had called for
and then the Senate vote was delayed. I wonder if he isn't
pushing the President into a corner: 1:47 long....it's right
at the end he says Syria can't surrender CW if the U.S. and
it's allies can attack....I suppose he's referring to the possibility
the Senate could give the President the right to attack.

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #138)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:33 PM

144. FOX, RW & other Obama opponents are siding with Russia now. Forums here often the same

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #138)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:32 PM

210. I say....

the world community should boycott the winter Olympics. No tourist trade. Let Putin deal with that if he keeps playing games over this mess.

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Response to uhnope (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:54 PM

140. +3

Hear hear.

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Response to uhnope (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:04 PM

158. "Most were for isolationism," time for the bullshit flag. Who here was for "isolationism"?

That is what is called a Strawman argument. Most DU'ers here, even the Obama Group were advocating for not bombing. They were not advocating for "isolationism". To say such is intellectually dishonest.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #158)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:19 PM

172. +1 nt

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #158)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:24 PM

214. there have been plenty of isolationist sentimments.

to the effect of
-Why get involved over chem.weapons when the killing has been going on there for two years
-we are not the world's police
-if it's not on our borders, don't get involved
and so on

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Response to uhnope (Reply #214)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:50 PM

216. First of all, most here were against the bombing. Does that mean they were all

isolationists? There are other ways of handling problems besides dropping bombs.

Our government is now outraged by the use of chemical weapons in Syria. And most of the world is outraged by our use of white phosphorous, land mines, cluster bombs, and depleted uranium in Iraq.

And with children going to bed hungry I dont want to continue to spend billions on wars. Tell me that's wrong.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #216)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 05:07 PM

220. I didn't say "all" I said "many" expressed isolationism and I stand by that and my other points

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Response to uhnope (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:05 PM

159. As well as a strong sense of denialism.

People saying chemical weapons are legal, saying the Iraq War was legal and if Obama didn't go with Congress he would be acting illegally, people saying that the dead weren't as many, and sickeningly, people arguing Sarin gas is better to kill people with than bombs.

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Response to uhnope (Reply #69)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:16 PM

162. I agree

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:42 PM

2. let's not party untill they pry the 'I don't have/I didn't use poison gas' from Assads control

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:43 PM

3. A hearty K&R, grahamhgreen!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:44 PM

4. Let's hope WE can make it stick!

And Yes, credit to the peacemakers

Rec'd!!!!

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Response to RiverStone (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:08 PM

66. "Blessed are the peacemakers." n/t

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:46 PM

5. Yes, it was people all over the world saying NO that influenced...

all the major players. When the people use their power, good things happen.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:46 PM

6. War on Syrians??

Honey, there's a war on Syrians whether you want it or not. In case you haven't been following it, there are 100,000 dead and 2 million refugees. You did not achieve "peace."

Peace, my ass. Maybe peace for you, but not for Syrians. I'll just leave it with how Nic Kristof closed his column Sunday:

So, having said that analogies aren’t necessarily helpful, let me leave you with a final provocation.

If we were fighting against an incomparably harsher dictator using chemical weapons on our own neighborhoods, and dropping napalm-like substances on our children’s schools, would we regard other countries as “pro-peace” if they sat on the fence as our dead piled up?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/08/opinion/sunday/kristof-pulling-the-curtain-back-on-syria.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0


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Response to frazzled (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:00 PM

18. So we should get involved in every civil war on the planet?

Do you know who you should be supporting in Syria? Assad? Rebels? Al-Quaeda? The Free Syrian Army? Do you know which of those are Sunni, which are Shia, who is anti-American and who is pro-American? Do you know who is telling the truth when they tell you they are "pro-American"?

I have never regarded America as "pro-peace". We are a WAR nation. We live, breathe and feed on destruction. We have a populace that doesn't think it has enough guns, We have a Military Industrial Complex that gets more money than education,health care and Social Security combined. We love watching our Shock and Awe campaigns on TV complete with play by play and color commentary.

Having us interfere in civil war is like having George Zimmerman on your neighborhood watch.





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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:09 PM

24. Don't get cranky

The OP was all about how peace is breaking out all over and the poster was pointing out that is clearly not the case. I'm glad Americans aren't going to die in another pointless war but with already 100,000 dead in Syria, having a party seems a bit......stupid.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:23 PM

31. There was never a proposal to become "involved" in the Syrian civil war

And in case you haven't been paying attention, we have been studiously avoiding such involvement for the past two years.

The only thing on the table has been a limited action to reduce or eliminate one side's ability to use its enormous cache of chemical weapons, which are illegal by all international norms. That puts the civil war sides back to work to knock each other out by whatever other means they have.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #31)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:58 PM

53. No idea where you get

 

"studiously avoiding such involvement for the past two years".

Even Brzezinski can't understand why Obama began his illegal covert war against Syria.

Heilbrunn: Here we are five years into the Obama administration, and you’re stating that the West is engaging in “mass propaganda.” Is Obama being drawn into Syria because he’s too weak to resist the status quo? What happened to President Obama that brought us here?

Brzezinski: I can’t engage either in psychoanalysis or any kind of historical revisionism. He obviously has a difficult problem on his hands, and there is a mysterious aspect to all of this. Just consider the timing. In late 2011 there are outbreaks in Syria produced by a drought and abetted by two well-known autocracies in the Middle East: Qatar and Saudi Arabia. He all of a sudden announces that Assad has to go—without, apparently, any real preparation for making that happen. Then in the spring of 2012, the election year here, the CIA under General Petraeus, according to The New York Times of March 24th of this year, a very revealing article, mounts a large-scale effort to assist the Qataris and the Saudis and link them somehow with the Turks in that effort. Was this a strategic position? Why did we all of a sudden decide that Syria had to be destabilized and its government overthrown?

http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/brzezinski-the-syria-crisis-8636

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Response to arewenotdemo (Reply #53)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:43 PM

100. Your on the money. Good article.

Here's another link to what Syrian intervention is really about. http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MID-02-130813.html
Those who tout Obama as a master chess player today are a touch delusional. He just simply made the best of a bad situation, one that he had put himself and America into. Granted getting rid of any chemical weapons is progress but in my mind weapons are weapons regardless of what type they are and whoever has them...and we use plenty of them. When we get rid of all of them it is truly a great day. The real question is why are we involved with Syria at all? The article above explains who really benefits in "The Great Game" and it isn't us. Your link points out Brzezinski knows something doesn't smell right in Denmark. Today the president has won a small political victory at home and taken the light off the investigation into who really orchestrated and paid for the chemical attack. I have a feeling the investigation wasn't going to play out our way. In other words... Saudi involvement. Regardless of what happens in Syria and any small political victories at home today I have a feeling that at the end of the day the people benefitting will simply be the MIC, the NeoCons, Israel, and the house of Saud. In other words same old same old...they get richer ..and America continues to be in a depressed economic situation at home.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #18)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:26 PM

36. Waging war is not a uniquely American perview.

There are no nations on earth not peopled by humans and which have not engaged in war at some pinrmt. Humans are tribal--even DUers who fancy themselves to be extremely enlightened enough on matters of war and peace to engage in verbal aggression by name calling those who don't always embrace evertmy opinion they hold.

We are not a "war nation." We are nation which has ended up playing world cop by default following the devastation in the wake of WWII.

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Response to SomethingFishy (Reply #18)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:47 AM

188. K & R

K&R

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Response to frazzled (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:52 PM

109. What State of the United States is Syria in?

Or is it in the District of Columbia?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #109)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:20 PM

142. You opening a new chapter of the America First Committee?

The America First Committee launched a petition aimed at enforcing the 1939 Neutrality Act and forcing President Franklin D. Roosevelt to keep his pledge to keep America out of the war. They profoundly distrusted Roosevelt, arguing that he was lying to the American people.
On the day after Roosevelt's lend-lease bill was submitted to the United States Congress, Wood promised AFC opposition "with all the vigor it can exert." America First staunchly opposed the convoying of ships, the Atlantic Charter, and the placing of economic pressure on Japan. In order to achieve the defeat of lend-lease and the perpetuation of American neutrality, the AFC advocated four basic principles:
The United States must build an impregnable defense for America.
No foreign power, nor group of powers, can successfully attack a prepared America.
American democracy can be preserved only by keeping out of the European war.
"Aid short of war" weakens national defense at home and threatens to involve America in war abroad.

On June 20, 1941 Lindbergh spoke to a rally in Los Angeles billed as "Peace and Preparedness Mass Meeting". In his speech of that day, Lindbergh criticized those movements which he perceived were leading America into the war. He proclaimed that the United States was in a position that made it virtually impregnable and he pointed out that when interventionists said "the defense of England" they really meant "defeat of Germany." Lindbergh's presence at the Hollywood Bowl rally was overshadowed, however, by the presence of fringe elements in the crowd.
Nothing did more to escalate the tensions than the speech he delivered to a rally in Des Moines, Iowa on September 11, 1941. In that speech he identified the forces pulling America into the war as the British, the Roosevelt administration, and the Jews. While he expressed sympathy for the plight of the Jews in Germany, he argued that America's entry into the war would serve them little better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America_First_Committee

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Response to frazzled (Reply #142)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:49 PM

147. I've taught American history.

So don't exert yourself providing an extended background.

I do have one question for you. Who is Hitler in your highly imaginative scenario?

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Response to another_liberal (Reply #147)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:38 PM

208. The question isn't who Hitler is, it's who Assad is. And the answer is:

HITLER! HITLER! HITLER! HITLER!

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Response to beerandjesus (Reply #208)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:08 PM

236. Assad couldn't play Hitler . . .

The truth is that Assad couldn't play Hitler in a small town dinner theater staging of The Producers.

In a wig he could play Laura Dern, or an Ostrich (without the wig). He could do well as either of those.

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Response to frazzled (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:41 PM

135. +1 it seems "peace" just means peace for Americans nt

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:48 PM

7. Thank you.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:49 PM

8. Right ON! Glad someone here stepped up and said it.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:50 PM

9. YOU WILL NOT TAKE THIS AWAY FROM HIM

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:51 PM

11. Who's hair is on fire?

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Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:42 PM

168. Somehow, I don't think he minds

A good negotiator is always willing to let another party take the credit or the advantage, to let others look good at his own expense, sometimes even to play the "bad cop", if the result is what he was after in the first place.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:50 PM

10. He is not bowing to pressure and may yet still strike as Kerry said today

The object was to stop assad's ability to continue to use chemical weapons. If they 'quickly' give them up then the goal is accomplished.

If not, they will move ahead with the strikes.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:39 PM

44. Some of us suspect that the

"Humanitarian need to go on with strikes" has to do with other forces, like Iran and Israel, and not so much sarin gas. There is also the matter of the pipeline that is desired in that region.

The USA has killed more people with the use of illegal chem and radioactive weapons than the full count of the entire population of Syria.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #44)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:46 PM

47. Has Obama done so?

And if it is all about cheney's oil and gas in the Golan heights why didn't we just attack right away?

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #47)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:28 PM

87. If he had concerns about depleted uranium, Obama could have indicted Cheney and Rumsfeld

And Diane Feinstein for war crimes.

But he sure moved away from that situation quickly. "Lean forward, Blah Blah Blah."

The guy even he had Henry "Illegal War Maneuvers" Kissinger on as an adviser. (Don't know if HK is still with the WH or not.)

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #87)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:02 PM

152. The granting of immunity to Bush and Cheney is a de facto conviction.

They are subject to arrest outside the U.S.

The world was united against the Third Reich. Bush & Cheney still enjoy wide support. Do YOU want to start a civil war?

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Response to LuvLoogie (Reply #152)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:01 PM

157. They said it would cause a civil war to impeach Nixon.

But Congress started the process anyhow, however Nixon stepped down before they could do they deed.

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Response to avaistheone1 (Reply #157)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:30 PM

164. Impeachment trials are not criminal trials

The penalty for a guilty verdict is removal from office. Not jail.

Bush and Cheney are not in office. Also one would have to decide what charges to press, Then make an arrest. Do you see Dick Cheney surrendering to authorities to answer charges, make depositions, enter pleas?

Nixon's impeachment did not require his arrest, nor did he face jail time after Ford's pardon.

The granting of immunity to Bush & Cheney by Obama is a coup de grace. It is an official shaming. They are NOT free to roam about western civilization. They haven't dared to try.

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Response to LuvLoogie (Reply #164)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:11 AM

191. You can't shame those who have no shame

And none of the parties we are discussing are remotely capable of feeling shame.

Their entire attitude is summed up by Cheney in two comments.. "Go fuck yourself" and "So"?


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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #191)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:21 AM

192. Yeah, there's that.

Dick Cheney and his bio-mechanical heart run on tritium and toddler's blood.

Still, one can always hope to see his malnourished and disheveled form being dragged from a spider hole live on CNN.

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Response to LuvLoogie (Reply #152)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:14 AM

199. The Civil War Redux has already started and it isnt between the D's and R's.

That's a complete distraction. The war is between the liberals and conservatives. The conservatives of course have the 1% backing them. Thanks the Sen Warren and Rep Grayson, the liberals are still struggling but I doubt they can compete with the powerful conservative mainstream Democratic Party that will want Ms. Clinton as our next president.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:39 PM

98. A small correction: The STATED object is to stop Assad

from continuing to use chemical weapons--assuming he did use them, which is debatable in itself.

I have to wonder what the real object is. There are a number of possibilities, the pipeline being one of them.

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Response to The Straight Story (Reply #10)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:06 AM

205. Only an idiot wouldn't bow to public pressure.


This is, you will recall, supposed to be a democracy. U.S. Presidents aren't supposed to start wars the American people don't want.

Obama made it clear he was asking for public opinion, and Congressional support. Be kind of stupid to ask if it didn't matter to him, not mention the party-wide political suicide he'd be committing striking in the face of near-universal opposition. He'd be setting himself and the party up to be pilloried as Bush-like cowboys for the next 20 years.

It's also not clear the chemical weapons are "the goal." The CIA is training rebels. Republicans supporting the President have explicitly made toppling Assad "the goal." So, were we to get involved militarily, it is not in the slightest bit clear that eliminating chemical weapons would be the end of things.

I don't understand why it is so important for people to pretend that it can't be that Obama tried something which didn't work, and wisely changed course. Doing the same thing regardless of its success or failure or public support is either fascism or stupidity, and I don't think those are traits anyone wants attributed to Obama.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:52 PM

12. Bahahaha!! And now we get to it. Hey, don't feel bad. Time named you person of the year one time

 



Maybe the Nobel Peace Prize committee will give the award to all anonymous netizens who registered their outrage on blogs and message boards.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:00 PM

19. Yeah, fuck the will of the people.

Who the hell do these people think they are, citizens of a democratic republic or something?

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:31 PM

40. Wow. What a pathetic post.

 

Obama is just the representative of the American people. Stop idolizing him.

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Response to ocpagu (Reply #40)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:33 PM

41. nobody's idolizing him. I'm mocking the OP for how petulant and attention-starved he sounded

 

wahhh!!! it's not Obama, dammit!!! I did it! We did it!! The internets stopped the war!11!!!1

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #41)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:59 PM

55. You dare mock us, pretzel logic man:) HEHEHE...

If you think posting is ineffective at swaying public opinion, why are you wasting all our time by doing it?

More pretzel logic, I guess, LOL

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #55)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:00 PM

178. Yes and some think that posting in American political forums is a great way to effect public opinion

in that country too!

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #41)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:30 PM

89. Mocking the will of the people over the whims of the star struck.

Had the people not spoken (and posted) so much, there would be dead bodies in Syria killed by American missiles. I guess that would be something you could get behind and cheer.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:24 PM

82. Could you be any more fucking condescending?

Guess what...the despised 'you' in your post put Obama in the WH

Are you sad he was elected? Twice?

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Response to leftstreet (Reply #82)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:26 PM

83. I love it he was elected. I gave money,volunteered, and voted both times

 

my actual vote counts. my internet protests probably don't.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #83)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:33 PM

173. Discussion is ineffectual and pointless. Only voting matters. Right?

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #12)


Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:54 PM

13. Bwahahaha !!!

If the "peace advocates on this board and elsewhere" had their way there would never have been any credible threat of military action.


Without that threat, what could have possibly motivated Assad to give up his chemical weapons?


Stop kidding yourself. The doves got this one wrong.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:48 PM

155. Hey M_J

Without lots of Peace Pressure on the WH, Congress and other Americans Syria would be smoking right now, and Kerry & Co. would have gotten their hypocritical way. No doubt. Doves got it correct.

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Response to drynberg (Reply #155)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:32 PM

165. No, if there was no credible threat

then Assad would have no motivation to give up his weapons.


There is no reason to assume Pres. Obama would have attacked Syria before going to the G-20, and that is where he talked to Putin about this option.


Doves got it wrong. If they had their way Assad would have no worries.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:08 PM

179. Has Assad already given up his weapons?

Where did they all go from the 700 different sites they are stored around the country? Who will verify this? How long will it take to verify where the weapons went and who has control on them now? And how did they transport all those weapon in the middle of a hot shooting war with the insurgents? Did the insurgents intercept any of those transport trucks?

My guess is Assad is buying time to finish off the opposition. He is winning the war from what I am reading.

UN inspectors have been inspecting Iran nuclear program for many moons also. Yet Iran claims centrifuges are churning out weapons grade plutonium at record pace.

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Response to golfguru (Reply #179)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:40 AM

195. He has admitted having them. That is the first step.


If Assad is just buying time then it makes Putin look bad and we can still send ~200 cruise missiles to express our disappointment in him.


The point is that even if he keeps a few stashed somewhere he really can't use them. He says he will sign onto the Chemical Weapons Convention (Treaty) and if he uses them after that then the U.S. won't need to act alone to deal with him.


A credible threat of military strikes was essential to making this happen, the doves would have done nothing and they clearly got it wrong.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #195)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:45 PM

215. Britain sold them to him

so how could they not know he had them?

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #215)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:44 PM

219. Any reputable link to verify that statement?


No, Daily Mail does not count. I know they have been reporting that for the last few days but, to my knowledge, no reputable news agency has verified the story.


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Response to Generic Other (Reply #223)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:22 PM

227. That is a "No,I have no reputable source to base that statement on".

From the thread you linked to

^snip^

Source: Scottish Daily Record and Sunday Mail




both are supermarket tabloids




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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #227)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:46 PM

228. I linked to DUs LBN

but there were many other sources of this info coming from UK. The Brits sold the chemicals used to make the weapons.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #228)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:50 PM

230. It doesn't look that way. This has been out there for ~4 days

and if it were true I would think that someone who actually does news for a living would pick up on it.


I think these are all owned by Daily Mail. I would need to look it up and it isn't worth my time. If so, this would mean that there are not multiple sources, just one with different outlets.


Post again when the AP puts it out over the wire. Until then I will continue to base my opinion on what appears to be reality, not Bat Boy and Bigfoot stories.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #230)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:59 PM

231. google it

and yes mostly seems to be the right who are repeating the story, so I didn't link them. It doesn't mean they aren't sometimes on to something.

Didn't Rummy officiate over selling chemical weapons to Saddam? I am gun shy and battle fatigued where politicians are concerned these days. Between Bush and Obama's white lies my knee jerk reaction is to yell "Liar" anytime any one of them opens his or her mouth.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #231)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:11 PM

238. I did before responding to your first post

That is how I knew it was around for ~4 days.


I also didn't say it isn't true, only that I need a reputable source before I will base my opinions on it. You seem to be willing to believe anything that might support your point of view.



All I ask is that you consider each situation on it's own merits. Being worried about Pres. Obama because of what Pres. Reagan or Bush did is nuts.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #238)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:35 PM

239. I don't have a point of view

just a lack of trust in my government. This government that is unofficially shut down by the way. Does that really make anyone feel a sense of security? They locked the door to the American people. And you ask me to provide a reputable source to support my doubts about the kind of people who rule this oligarchy? Are you serious? You say that I am willing to believe anything? Hardly. I believe very little they say. Kind of my default position.

As for the sources, the UK government should address the allegations, not me.

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #239)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:51 PM

240. If you make unfounded allegations you will be challenged on them.

As of now this is all just tabloid garbage. You need to support your own statements. If you can't then maybe you should take them to a different site. We have brains here. We fact check. You have nothing but Bat boy and Bigfoot stories.



Your grouping of Pres. Obama with Reagan and/or Bush is disturbing. It reflects an ideology that oversimplifies everything until it is distorted beyond recognition.


Would you bet against Peyton Manning because of what a terrible QB Tim Tebow was?




P.S. I am not suggesting you gamble. In fact, I strongly suggest you don't.

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Response to Motown_Johnny (Reply #240)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:57 PM

242. I am offended by anyone telling me to leave DU

I have been here since 2001. How dare you? And why? Because I mentioned that there have been allegations made that UK sold chemicals to Syria. I did not make them. I do not need to explain more than that to you or answer to you for any reason.

"We have brains here." Did you actually write that?

Reminds me of this:



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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:56 PM

14. Did activism and marching etc. work to prevent Iraq?

Nope.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:57 PM

15. So now "peace advocates on this board" are responsible for Kerry's "gaffe"?

Better keep writing those letters. The situation is still fluid.

Senators Drafting New Syria Resolution To Meet Tuesday Afternoon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023638693

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:57 PM

16. Yes, correct!

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:58 PM

17. +1000

I am so very glad WE were able to be the voice of reason...let's hope that it continues. The polling was definitely against the thought of war or even 'limited action' we are DONE with those 'solutions'...I am grateful that not just Americans, but people from other countries were vocal in their desire for peace as well. It almost gives me a glimmer of hope for the human race...

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:00 PM

20. I imagine for the next two months, there will be many groups claiming credit.

I imagine for the next two months, there will be many, many groups claiming credit for success (before the end-game has even been written) depending on the biases and narratives woven of this still-untangling gordian knot.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:01 PM

21. ^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^ +1000000000000000

Exactly. Popular will stopped this stupidity.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:06 PM

22. Peace?

You may want to check in with the families of those 100,000 dead. If you mean Americans, I guess you're right.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:09 PM

23. I think the talks with Russia had a LITTLE something to do with it

Oh, and Assad understanding that the President has had a pretty direct hand in getting Osama Bin Laden (how many boots on the ground did we lose there?).

Oh, and "unprovoked" attack? Are you buying Assad is guileless even after they've just agreed to sign onto the chemical weapons treaty?

Suuuuuuure. The President had NOTHING to do with any of it. Keep on pushing the RWNJ meme.

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #23)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:05 PM

60. I dont know what kind of world

people on DU are living in if they don't think the pressure of a possible show of force didn't get the Russians to want to negotiate a deal :p

nobody wants us to strike, especially the Russians!

whether people like it or not, sometimes the threat of force is the only way to get some people to respond :p

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #23)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:33 PM

95. Comparing a special ops mission to kill a renegade outlaw in a country not his own

to any conceivable mission to eliminate a head of state in command of an actual military is patently absurd and way out of school.

Put down the Splinter Cell or Call of Duty and rejoin reality.

Next thing you know, you'll be claiming Putin feared a Special Ops assassination squad and this motivated him into action.

Was America or her allies attacked by Syrian forces? That would mean unprovoked.

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Response to CakeGrrl (Reply #23)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:17 PM

209. We did our part...

and the president did his. It was a smart move putting it on congress- Bush would have been bombing (the wrong country, probably) by now.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:11 PM

25. Considering the make up of the House

I think the "let Allah sort them out" crowd had more influence.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #25)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 07:01 PM

232. I guess for the RWNJ's

that think Obama is a Muslim and that his supporters think he's the 2nd coming...perhpas now they are attempting to shake off the "Maybe Allah did sort it out" heebee jeebees haa ha


ps it's a joke.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #232)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:11 PM

237. Ha!

Took me a sec. but that was pretty funny

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:15 PM

26. If we manage to prevent yet another military involvement

I hope this will serve as a lesson for future presidents. It seemed that in the recent past, the best way to increase your poll numbers was to invade some third-world country. After the Iraq debacle, most Americans appear to be waking up to what a racket war is, and how we continue to be duped into these military adventures while war profiteers fill their pockets.

Let's hope it's a LONG, LONG time before we get pulled into another stunt like this.

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Response to eissa (Reply #26)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:26 PM

35. pray you don't get a fucking jackass in the WH who couldn't care less about human life (Bush)

 

because no amount of your foot stomping would do SHIT to stop things when a REAL PNAC'er shows up and starts riding roughshod over everything in the name of defense contractors and oil interests.

You really really really don't understand how fortunate we are to have Obama instead of McCain or Romney.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #35)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:53 PM

50. Oh, believe me, I know exactly how lucky we are

A repuke would've bombed first and asked questions later. I'm a huge supporter of our President; the reason I've been so angry at his actions regarding Syria is that I just simply can't wrap my brain around what I thought to be a progressive president acting like a neo-con. I sincerely hope he learns from this.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #35)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:44 PM

101. Exactly! nt

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:18 PM

27. disillusioned much

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Response to madokie (Reply #27)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:24 PM

81. Obama went to Congress and didn't unilaterally attack Syria

and it seems to have pissed off a few people here!

Dammed if you do dammed if you don't!

This Lefty NEVER thought he would attack Syria and LOVED seeing the POTUS make Congress do their jobs!

BRAVO SIR!

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Response to Rex (Reply #81)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:57 PM

110. Yup

We have some here who would be a better fit over at that other place if you know what I mean.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:20 PM

28. In a indirect way I suppose

It is the polling that made him sweat enough to blink and should receive the most credit though.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:24 PM

32. I don't think he needed polls to think not many want another war.

 

That is insulting to him, to accuse him of being so thoughtless and stupid. It was the Presdient before him that was the thoughtless and stupid one. And even the one before That one.

Obama does not sweat. Most everyone else does, in buckets.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #32)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:26 PM

34. I am accusing him of being a politician

Like every single other one in public office. You might not like the reality that he is a politician, it will not change that reality one bit.

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Response to Riftaxe (Reply #34)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:28 PM

37. he is a politician but certainly not near every single other one.

 

He is miles above them all. He has more integrity in his little finger than a crammed busload of his peers.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #37)

Sat Sep 21, 2013, 07:09 AM

243. Right, integrity....

explain all the double talk, no lobbyists in the white house, you can keep your physician (I Sure as hell cannot), and the inconvenient redline.

how do you explain the integrity in the following?



with this?

Concord Hospital not part of provider network for Obamacare exchange plan in N.H.

considering the distance to the nearest hospital that will be part of the exchange, and the fact my PCP (and i like her very much) practice is part of CH, I have been royally fucked by your concept of integrity and our politician.

ACA has revoked my access to healthcare, but nice to know i can pay a penalty for facilities far beyond my reach, and that of many other seniors.

He should have pushed for Single payer, but he has the spine, honesty and integrity of a politician.

Oh well, in the end, zealots like you are worse then politicians, you forgo the ability to think for whatever you get out of worship (I am not sure exactly what you get out of that, but if it works for you...ehhh ).

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:21 PM

29. heheh.

 

why shore.

Obama logs into DU many times a day to find out how to do this Prezzy thing he is saddled with.

And we all know that when you look for good advisors, you always choose the ones you can't understand because they are screaming so loud, waving their hands all over and using their mouth froth to put out the hair on fire.

You know you can trust advice like that.

Good going, now what's next? Want to change the law of gravity? why not, you have the POWA.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:34 PM

42. 5 star DUzy post!!! Love it.

 

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Response to Whisp (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:06 PM

62. They held his feet to the fire. Don't you forget the 101st Chairborne. nt

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #62)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:07 PM

64. 101st Chairborne. . .

 

o

oh

oh oh

ow.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #62)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:30 PM

154. Very nice...

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #62)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:35 PM

211. Here's their motto



I made this just for you msanthrope!

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Response to Generic Other (Reply #211)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:03 PM

213. +++

 

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Response to Whisp (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:18 PM

71. Not only do they actually pay attention to what people are saying,

but they actually have industries made up of paid professionals who post in various 'personas' in order to sway public opinion.

Indeed, they even post here.

In fact, why post here if you don't think it has an effect?

Now, does Obama log into DU and look for counsel, no, but he should - we obviously have better answers than his cabinet. He doesnt do that any more than he listens to individual calls at the White house. but he does recieve summaries.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #71)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:36 PM

131. hee hee.

 

you must have received your medal of honour for work in the 101st Chairborne.

* that one kills me.

lol

*falls over, dogs licks my face - I tell him about 101st Chairborners and HE falls over laughing, and then I lick his face... o, the funnery.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #131)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:39 PM

133. So, why do you post on DU if you don't think it's effective, LOL???

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #133)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:41 PM

136. I don't believe a bunch of screaming out of controls are very effective

 

in policies of great import.

How I try to be effective here is just point and laugh at them

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Response to Whisp (Reply #136)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:58 PM

212. You kind of inspired this whisp (along with msanthrope)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3646556

I didn't want you to miss it. Maybe we should start awarding deserving people?

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Response to Whisp (Reply #131)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:09 PM

141. Yeah, it is funny. I first saw it used outing somebody who was ......

hair on fire rabid to support Obama's Syria adventure.

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Response to Whisp (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:21 PM

153. I think Obama would have attacked if Russia didn't cave

In these situations there are lots of if/then contingencies. This was probably one that was on the board but not very likely. Let's just be glad the Russian's saw reason...

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Response to Whisp (Reply #29)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 05:50 PM

224. This OP has to be one of the whiniest, most petulant things

I've seen in my five + years here.

So let's see, first it was Putin who made this miracle happen now it's everyone. And I wouldn't have a problem with this OP because I believe there is some truth to it if it weren't such a pathetic, blatant, ABSURD attempt by a known hater to deny this president ANY praise for anything that's he's done, good bad or in between.

This is really beyond the pale. You summed it up perfectly especially with using the mouth froth to let out the burning hair. I wonder if this OP is what inspired EarlG's Pic of the Day?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:22 PM

30. I agree.

They have ignored us for so long and our numbers appeared low when the rest of the folks ere too self absorbed to care. Now so many are hungry in this country and do not want money wasted on bombs. With those folks by our side the numbers were too large to ignore.

Never give up...never stop calling!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:25 PM

33. here ya go

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #33)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:28 PM

38. hee hee hee

 

.................hee hee

lolz.

.
.
.
.
.
. . . . . hee

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #33)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:35 PM

43. Damn you guys are cracking me up. That is good.

 

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #33)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:22 PM

80. +1

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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #33)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:14 PM

120. Ha Ha Ha HA.....



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Response to AtomicKitten (Reply #33)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:03 PM

217. LOL

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:30 PM

39. Bullshit.

eom.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:43 PM

45. There's been a surge reported in people showing up in ER's with dislocated shoulders...

apparently from patting themselves on the back..film at 11

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:45 PM

46. I think we actually should be thanking the aide of Obama's who took that critical walk with him

the night before he announced he'd decided to ask for authorization from Congress.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:50 PM

48. k and r

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:52 PM

49. We need to keep up the pressure! Can we spell it

BAMA

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:54 PM

51. I think it has more to do with the diplomacy

and negotiating tactics of the Democrats who thankfully have the power right now. If the Republicans were in charge we would be at war right now. Demonstrating, calling our representatives, speaking out did not stop Iraq from happening. We are war weary, but I don't believe that would have stopped a Republican president from going into Syria.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:56 PM

52. Nothing has been stopped yet

Get a grip.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:59 PM

54. It is far too soon for self-congratulation.

There is still a lot up in the air on this thing.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #54)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:02 PM

56. True, but we've reached an important step:)

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Response to David__77 (Reply #54)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:06 PM

63. All that pressure from within the MIC to shuffle the Mideast power deck

won't evaporate overnight.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #63)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:59 PM

114. yea i hate to be the bubble burster

but according to democracy now,it is the cia paying and training the rebels so while it is great the bombing the US was gonna do is on hold,we are still participating in their civil war

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017144006

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:03 PM

57. lmao what?

yes, im sure all the calls to DO NOTHING really got the Russians to want to get negotiations going..


what kind of backward world do you guys live in where youre ALWAYS RIGHT no matter what?

AGAIN, right wing thinking!!!!

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Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #57)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:33 AM

202. They were sure WWIII was about to start ... absolutely sure.

Now that their prediction is going to be wrong ... clearly THEY were the heroes.

Pretty funny.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:03 PM

58. It's not over by a long shot. Now more than ever, we need to be glued like hawks

Doves turned hawks.

But we did do a lot! Keep it up!

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Response to Catherina (Reply #58)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 07:08 PM

234. "we" did?

who is this "we" and what did "we" actually do?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:05 PM

59. K & R - you're damn right!

Sometimes, things really *are* black and white. Not always, or even most of the time, but sometimes. There really is such a thing as right and wrong, and an unprovoked attack on Syria is just plain WRONG. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:05 PM

61. I think you should take on the Cure for the Common Cold next.

 

you can do it.

just yell and insult the virus enough and they'll succumb.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:07 PM

65. Another train that is NEVER late.

I knew I wouldn't have to wait long for the "Obama changed course because we held his feet to the fire" express to roll into the DU station.

It is always predictable, and it sounds more desperate (not to mention hilarious!) every time!






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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:09 PM

67. I don't care who gets credit for it. As long as we don't have to bomb another nation I'm glad.

I'd like to think the Obama administration orchestrated all this behind the scenes and used the strike option as a club to get the Syrians in line. I don't know if that's what happened or not.

I just hope it all works out and we don't have to bomb more people and get engaged in another war where we spill the blood of our service members.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:15 PM

68. No, the anti-war peace advocates were just pawns in The PBO's Grand Scheme

We all reacted exactly according to His plans and allowed His will to be done on the international stage, as foretold by Him.

Or so I've been told by VanillaRhapsody.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #68)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:18 PM

72. Well that just about does it.

Then it must be so if Vanilla Rhapsody says so.

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Response to avaistheone1 (Reply #72)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:19 PM

74. Amen!

and blessed be.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #68)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:20 PM

75. ROFL, I never got the memo:)

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #75)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:21 PM

76. Why would He send memos to pawns?

Only True Believers receive Memos.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #68)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:22 PM

79. Damn, just pawns in his game!

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Response to polichick (Reply #79)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:30 PM

90. So I've been told by one of His True Believers.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #68)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:49 AM

193. Interesting persona that one....

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:18 PM

70. How much "genius" did Obama need to figure out that Syria was a political doomsday plan

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:59 PM - Edit history (2)

in every sense of the word? He knew that his supporters would abandon him, and that his detractors would call him either a hypocrite because he criticized Bush for doing the same thing, or an incompetent because he could never wage war as "well" as Bush. So he takes an official pro-war stand, sparking a backlash from "the will of the American people," and which the Russian government conveniently relieves him of. Anything that goes wrong is officially Putin's responsibility, so the Rethugs have no critical leverage.

The "Rope-A-Dope Kid" has TKO'd us once again.


rocktivity

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:19 PM

73. Oh HERE WE GO..

Don't break your arm

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:21 PM

77. Mmm no, it was the Russians

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:21 PM

78. I never thought the POTUS was going to attack Syria

and was pleasantly surprised to see him go to Congress to ask for a vote! Another star in the PRO column for the POTUS imo!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:26 PM

84. I guess if we want it enough, we'll understand the role of, "We, the People"

Actually, it's a good move by all, so why shouldn't this include the Obama administration? Can they clearly listen when they have to? I think, "yes, they can".

Remember the last group of war criminals who didn't? They are STILL out there, and they lied like rugs to gut us like fish on market day.

Why should "we, the people" stop with our activism so we don't bomb in Syria? Let's figuratively bomb the hell out of the Bush Regime... bring it to it's knees by indicting and incarcerating them. Chase them to the ends of the earth for war crimes, now that we've thought a bit more about it...

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Response to MrMickeysMom (Reply #84)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:33 PM

129. One unintended consequence of all this for Obama -

add in the reality that now we all know for a fact that Obama really and truly has the ability to gather his wits and make the Oval Office into a bully pulpit. If he can do this for the “emergency” of sarin gas in Syria, then some Loyalist Dems might have to question why he can’t bring himself to do this with the matter of the budget sequestering.

Why is only the military functions and military bluster of this country of concern to him?

Remember how he distanced himself from the discussion about the public option, the summer of 2009? He said he COULD NOT utilize the bully pulpit, as Congress was there and could handle the Health Insurance Reform efforts. And that the Constitution made him powerless to start up a discussion.

I live in a county in Northern Calif., where our school budget has been slashed from over 16 million some three years ago, to less than ten million. Schwartzennegger, a Republican, did not want these budget cuts to materialize. Instead, when governor, he approached the Federal government for a loan. Geithner denied it, saying the deficit could not handle such. Yet over the next ten months, Geithner did not seem to mind the nation spending some 255 BILLIONS of dollars on modernizing an already over-equipped military, propping up the totalitarian surveillance state, and sending 55 BILLIONs of dollars of weaponry off to Israel and to Saudi Arabia.

The lack of educational resources for American kids is far more scarey to me than what is happening in a distant place. Eventually these kids will be adults out there voting, and trying to find work. To my way of thinking, the military leadership Obama is trying to provide is not half as needed as responsibility for our domestic affairs.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #129)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:22 AM

185. There's no doubt about what you say about these issues...

What WAS it with Obama with the budget sequestering? The Wall Street bail out? Corporations that slither neatly into never paying their share via the Wall Street and regulatory cracks?

It should happen. This decision to yield in Syria (as far as I know) is just a first step... IT ALL needs to turn around NOW!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:26 PM

85. You are full of yourself and full of s**t

You were not present at any meetings in the Situation Room, St. Petersburg or anywhere else where options were discussed and agreements reached/still being reached.
And the process was helped by a war-weary public and a bunch of racists in Congress who will stop at nothing to thwart President Obama's objectives because he is black.
You guys are nothing but useless keyboard warriors who think you have all the answers despite the fact that you don't hold office and don't have to make life-and- death dexcisions of the magnitude that President Obama has.
And of course you don't think President Obama does anything right, despite all the evidence to the contrary.

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Response to rury (Reply #85)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:30 PM

91. And how are you different, and why are you posting here?

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Response to rury (Reply #85)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:35 PM

97. Rude. So are we to take it you WERE there?

You know that war-weary public you just ACCREDITED? Well say hello to the OP, a war-weary part of the public!

Reply FAIL.

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Response to rury (Reply #85)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:52 PM

175. Ouch! n/t

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:27 PM

86. But I did hear he did start the fire

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:28 PM

88. Everyone Knows It Was My Magic Rock That Stopped The War! And Prayer!

Diplomacy shplipomacy! All you gotta do is pray to my magic rock!

The desperation here is hilarious! God forbid Obama succeeds at something, the crazies come out of the woodwork either claiming it's really something horrible, or if it's good, that they are actually responsible for it!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:32 PM

92. It was the Threat of Retribution

that brought Assad to the table...... geeez.

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Response to Cryptoad (Reply #92)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:34 PM

96. And we brought Obama

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #96)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:47 PM

104. What did you buy him?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:39 PM

99. Hooey

He knew another war/strike would be unpopular and the GOP goes against everything he does...including war on ME countries they can't find on a map.

I saved my sanity by staying away from the hysterical voices these past few weeks and waited to see what "that one" would do, cuz he's smarter than me and pundits.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:44 PM

102. For this to be true, then you are also responsible for the russian and syrian parts

wow, good job. Pat yourself on the back some more.

sadly though, your refusal to acknowledge that the President uses those drones. A lot. Like when it was made public that drones were re-deploying to libya after the benghazi deal went down - immediate cooperation from the libyan government.

if you dont beleive assad has been sweating our cruise missiles, you are delusional. President Obama isnt bush, he actually carries a big stick.

"intense and overwhelming' pressure is quite a reach. You are also saying that the guy who has won every showdown so far with congress was dead set on using missiles and would not consider any other options - "do what we told him by finding a peaceful solution"

because actually ending the iraq occupation isnt peaceful.

Until you people actually tune into reality the democratic party will never again have enough clout to fight the class war and the uber rich and elite.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:46 PM

103. Thanks. Great post and I'm in complete agreement with you. eom

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:48 PM

105. Not me...

but let hitler go he's no harm

But for whatever reason the Tea Party became Hippies of late. and thats why this didn't go anywhere... not that there's anything wrong with Hippies , and the tea party are doing it for absurd reasons....

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:49 PM

106. Him being Right, burrs the ass of the Obama Haters! nt

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:50 PM

107. Hear! Hear!

The people won! Endless war lost!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:51 PM

108. one of the happiest recs I've given

this is the first time I've written to a Congressperson about such a thing, and tens of thousands more who rarely participate at this level did the same, looks like

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:58 PM

111. Several problems with this post..

There is no plan for a war; the threat of bombing forced the Syrians to take notice and this is not over by a long shot. .there very well could still be an attack if the Syrians don't comply with the resolution.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:03 PM

115. Don't count your chickens before they hatch ...

we still have bombs, missiles and over 3000 tons (yep, six million pounds) of chemical weapons just itchin' to be used.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:05 PM

116. So, by you, you mean...

the Russians and the back-channel talks.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:11 PM

118. If he had no intention of really doing it in the first place.....

then what did you do? It was nice and you stood by your principles, so that's great.

It made the loons on the right into peace-niks all of a sudden.

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Response to Darkhawk32 (Reply #118)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:30 PM

125. If he had no intention of doing it in the first place, then he's a liar, and destabilized the ME on

as a game...... I guess

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:13 PM

119. You stopped nothing, Narcis, Assad still at war against Syria.nt

 

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Response to Sand Wind (Reply #119)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:25 PM

124. So big daddy still gonna shoot off his pop gun?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:15 PM

121. Putin: Syria chemical arms handover will work only if US calls off strike

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:19 PM

122. That's chutzpah! nt

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:21 PM

123. It's not over yet

Until Mr. Obama says that an attack on Syria is a non-starter and off the table, I would refrain from any self-congratulation.

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Response to DissidentVoice (Reply #123)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:30 PM

126. Agreed, but we got to step 1.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:32 PM

127. Think Shrub would have done the same ?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:32 PM

128. Wow, that's some thick ego right there

I'm sure the President had nothing to do with it. It was all you.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #128)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:37 PM

132. It's kinda like gay marriage - we had to drag him kicking and screaming to support that too.

It has nothing to do with ego.

It has to do with who was advocating for peace, and who wanted to kill people.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #132)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:46 PM

146. You guys wanted him to sign an executive order.

He raised your game by insisting that gay marriage and gays openly serving in the military be done through legislative politics from WITHIN the institutions requiring change. And he was right.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:34 PM

130. Absolutely. The pressure put on the administration

helped lead to this point. Meanwhile the hawks, who were busy telling us how important missile strikes were and how that's not really war, added nothing to the result but noise. Everyone who contacted their reps and the WH and every international citizen and entity that rallied against war forced Obama and Putin together in negotiating non-military solutions.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:49 PM

137. BULLSHITE....You got played!

Your sidling up to the Teabaggers calling Obama every damn name in the book....gnashing teeth and rending garments with your hair on fire. That was a requirement for this to work. Your attitudes made Obama look even more resolute...He appreciates all your hard work hating him! It sure paid off!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #137)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:32 PM

143. +1000, and Assad is still at war against Syria...nt

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:54 PM

139. I'm not sure it's been stopped. I suspect we're in a holding pattern until

some fresh arguments are manufactured.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:34 PM

145. Excatly.....

in the same way you have cured the common cold!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:51 PM

148. Never underestimate the power of a DU poll

My no vote resonated, baby!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:52 PM

149. Obama always says it isn't about him, it's about us.We're the ones who are supposed to change things

And this is what happens when we get off our asses and act. Thank you, Americans. Thank you all who are trying to keep us out of this conflict here and in all countries. I pray Syria will one day have peace. But more killing is not the answer.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:56 PM

150. Agreed.

The Cheer Squad is trying to grab credit for He Who Lives Perfection. Every thinking person knows better.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:01 PM

151. But...it's not over yet.

There are many ways things could develop including missile attacks.
I hope not but the drama is just beginning.
At least there are alternatives now.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:58 PM

156. Careful. An ego that large can knock down the walls of your house (nt)

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:07 PM

160. It ain't over yet, but you're right.

Just imagine if everyone was in the camp thar wanted this war because they like Obama and are invested in his personal success. We'd already be at war and we wouldn't have a diplomatic option.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:10 PM

161. DU forced Putin to the table!

 

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Response to michigandem58 (Reply #161)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:07 PM

171. America forced Obama to the table.


He's got no support for a strike. Couldn't convince the public. Couldn't convince Congress. Can't go it alone, or he'd be seen as a bigger cowboy than Bush.

In a compromise, no one's happy.

But make no mistake, Obama failed to get the war he asked for, TWICE, and that's a good thing.

Kudos to him for rolling with it and backtracking accordingly though.

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #171)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:28 AM

194. He never asked for a war, and has ended two

 

but the perpetually marginalized convinced themselves otherwise.

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Response to michigandem58 (Reply #194)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:30 AM

201. ... and failed to start a third. That's progress!

I for one congratulate Obama on backtracking in the face of massive public opposition. That's what democratic leaders are supposed to do.

What kind of nut wants to believe an American President is immune to overwhelming public opinion?

What kind of rational leader would behave that way?

Instead of flailing around trying to prove Obama is never wrong and never changes his mind, people who consider themselves staunch supporters of the President might recognize that changing his mind when he's wrong is EXACTLY his claim to being better than Bush and others?

Unless they actually think hamfisted fascism is more admirable than reason and democracy?

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Response to DirkGently (Reply #201)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:21 PM

206. I wouldn't consider a Syria strike a war

 

in the sense of Iraq or Afghanistan. Those were prolonged conflicts with American boots on the ground. You could be concerned it could escalate, but the action PBO contemplated was limited.

My take is he changed course when Russia came to the table. Public opposition was established earlier. Of course, the Russians may have seen his difficulty in building a coalition and factored that in when making a proposal, sensing his hand was somewhat weakened and a deal could be struck.

He didn't change his mind. He was never determined to use strikes for the sake of using strikes. The goal was to deter the further use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime. Thankfully, it seems we may be able to do that peacefully.

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Response to michigandem58 (Reply #206)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:19 PM

226. What would you call a similar strike upon the U.S.?


Couple of missiles aimed at specific targets by maybe China or someone?

I haven't seen an explanation yet where it isn't war when WE do it, even though it would be a violation of international law, and an act of war if done to the U.S.

As for Obama changing his mind, I think it's a bit hard to support the idea he announced strikes without mention of any alternative, asked Congress for its blessing for strikes, experienced huge backlash and nonsupport in both instances, and had the State Department "correct" Kerry's might off-the-cuffy-sounding mention of disarmament, but always had diplomacy in mind.

It's also hard to argue chemical weapons are not something of a pretext here. The administration has been training and arming anti-Assad forces for some time. McCain and his hawks have been pushing to just topple Assad the entire time.

And we just found out Kerry's been quoting a Syrian rebel-supporting lobbyist with a fake doctorate.

Again, the administration gets full marks to the extent it actually pursues diplomacy. That is smart and that is legal and that is how respectable nations pursue international interests.

But it's pretty tough to conclude diplomacy was the goal all along, and threatening an illegal war while slipping arms and fighters over the border were just for leverage.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:17 PM

163. Like the rooster taking credit for the sunrise.

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Response to baldguy (Reply #163)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:33 PM

166. Perfect response!

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Response to baldguy (Reply #163)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:44 PM

169. HAHAHA, no, like a farmer taking responsibility for his loose chicken-hawks;)

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #169)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:13 PM

181. You don't quite have the hang of this metaphor thing, do you?

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Response to baldguy (Reply #163)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:03 AM

189. the rooster crows but it's the hens who deliver the goods

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Response to Skittles (Reply #189)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 07:55 AM

197. The "hens" here being the people in the Obama Admin & the State Dept, of course.

The same people the OP is criticizing.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:38 PM

167. Exactly.

- We did.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:58 PM

170. Would've been nice if he'd acknowledged that like Cameron did.

Instead, he asked for more support for a strike that will somehow be both "unbelievably small" (Kerry) and yet, "not a pinprick."

Gibberish.

Scary thing now is, he's put himself in a political killbox, along with the rest of the party. The public rejected a unilateral strike. Congress is poised to reject giving its assent.

So now, the choices are

a) Make some kind of diplomatic solution work,

b) Respect the wishes of the American public and Congress and refrain from a strike, or

c) Strike completely unilaterally, and destroy his own credibility and put Democrats in a horrendously ugly position next time elections roll around.

On the upside, he's going to work HARD for diplomacy now, because it's the only real choice available.

Nice going, America. We play 12th-diimensional DEMOCRACY pretty well sometimes.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:41 PM

174. Yes, doing the heavy lifting....



Well done.

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Response to Bobbie Jo (Reply #174)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:55 PM

176. LOL.

Looks like a basement.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:57 PM

177. You flatter yourself. The population of DU is a spit in the ocean, and

I doubt Obama has ever even heard of DU. Nor would he take DU - which is rarely representative of the real world - seriously.

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #177)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:12 PM

180. K & R

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Response to Lil Missy (Reply #177)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:43 PM

182. Of course not, we're his base, LOL

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:43 PM

183. WOW, really?

If you honestly think that the few thousand people from this board "the peace advocates" had anything to do with us not taking military action upon Syria, please take a reality check. The only ones that had an impact were the corps and the effect it may have upon 2014 elections. Really, if you feel like pumping your chest claiming "you" were the difference, let me introduce you to something called a "reality check".

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:02 AM

184. you all are way off mark

Obama and Putin worked this deal out, while everybody was yelling about standing with your president and standing up for international treaties. You all and your whining only made him look stronger and more presidental. Assad acknowledged his chemical weapons and he blinked. This has absolutely nothing to do with you. He did a hell of a job, and you all are bunch of whiners and loosers

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:22 AM

187. I don't really buy the premise of this thread.

Obama is a moderate. IMO, the more people yell, the more he tunes them out.

Also, I believe in the Barack Obama who won the Nobel Peace Prize. I don't think that was a completely empty gesture. When Obama did a tour of the region to announce a new approach to foreign policy (after the absolutely horrible Bush years), I believe that really meant something.

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Response to PBass (Reply #187)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:40 AM

190. Then why did he say:

“One voice can change a room, and if one voice can change a room, then it can change a city, and if it can change a city, it can change a state, and if it change a state, it can change a nation, and if it can change a nation, it can change the world. Your voice can change the world.”


― Barack Obama


Love ya

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #190)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:26 AM

200. "Your job is to hold my feet to the fire ..." - Barack Obama

Love the notion the man who started as a community organizer is immune to public opinion ... or didn't notice the entire UK giving the Syrian war plan the finger. Or Congressional phone calls running 100:1 against.


Your job is to hold my feet to the fire…so, you need to be out there everyday raising these issues, telling us when we’re doing the right or wrong thing. My role is to be President of the United States, and your role is to be a strong voice for people who aren’t always heard.’

http://www.stanforddaily.com/2011/12/01/a-foot-in-two-worlds/

Kind of poor sports to be complaining that the people wisely did what Obama wisely told them to, and he wisely reacted accordingly.

What kind of freak is invested in the idea their democratically elected leader doesn't give a shit what the people say?


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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 07:14 AM

196. I suppose my six letters to consgresscritters and

telephone calls did nothing to help this situation. (Yeah right *sarcasm*)

In any case, it was lucky we had President Obama instead of Mitt Romney. Situation still isn't over yet. Don't let your eye drop from the bouncing ball.

I believe the OP is correct. This is OUR victory. We deserve at least some patting on the back. (Pats to all of you!)

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:47 AM

198. Bad things are always Obama's fault, nothing good is ever his doing

The logic of DU lately.

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Response to Democat (Reply #198)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:33 AM

203. DU's Combustible Hair Club and the Tea Baggers agree on that point.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #203)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 07:14 PM

235. "DU's Combustible Hair Club" - I'm laughing so hard, had to gasp for air...thanks :) n/t

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:37 AM

204. This thread has to be the biggest pile of crap I have ever read on DU, the holier than thou bunch

Who thinks they have accomplished anything is a legend in their own minds.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:28 PM

207. Alan Grayson aggrees. n/t

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:06 PM

218. LOL. This is too funny.

Obama has probably never even heard of DU.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 05:11 PM

222. I'm pissed Obama did not mention DU in his speech.

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Response to zappaman (Reply #222)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:52 PM

241. I'm pissed he didn't mention the military industrial complex, or oil company interests.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:48 PM

229. Assertion in the op? B-a-l-o-n-e-y n/t

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 07:01 PM

233. Just in case no one noticed, the "war" is still going on in Syria. nt

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