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Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:55 AM

 

Obama's staff is rewriting his speech because of what happened today. That's how planned this was

@verumserum: BTW, Obama's staff is rewriting his speech because of what happened today. That's how planned this was: http://t.co/9cvXD07j0R

Russian Proposal Catches Obama Between Putin and House Republicans

WASHINGTON — President Obama woke up Monday facing a Congressional defeat that many in both parties believed could hobble his presidency. And by the end of the day, he found himself in the odd position of relying on his Russian counterpart, Vladimir V. Putin, of all people, to bail him out.


“Putin knows that everyone wants an out, so he’s providing one,” said Fiona Hill, a former national intelligence officer and co-author of “Mr. Putin: Operative in the Kremlin.” “It seems like a bold idea that will get everyone, including Obama, out of a bind that they don’t want to be in.”


“It just adds to the uncertainty and makes a vote soon a little more difficult,” said Howard Berman, a Democrat and former chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. “It just gets dragged out and causes the Congress to say let’s wait to see what happens with this before they vote.”

All of which had White House speechwriters revising their drafts before Mr. Obama addresses the nation Tuesday night in what is shaping up as one of the most challenging moments of his presidency. He hoped to explain why it was necessary to retaliate for a chemical weapons attack that, according to United States intelligence, killed more than 1,400 in Syria, but also reassure Americans the result would not be another Iraq war.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/10/world/middleeast/surprise-russian-proposal-catches-obama-between-putin-and-house-republicans.html?emc=edit_tnt_20130909&tntemail0=y&_r=1&

73 replies, 3816 views

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Reply Obama's staff is rewriting his speech because of what happened today. That's how planned this was (Original post)
dkf Sep 2013 OP
David__77 Sep 2013 #1
ConcernedCanuk Sep 2013 #13
bvar22 Sep 2013 #66
Tx4obama Sep 2013 #2
markpkessinger Sep 2013 #45
Logical Sep 2013 #61
stevil Sep 2013 #3
Suich Sep 2013 #4
dkf Sep 2013 #6
Hekate Sep 2013 #11
snappyturtle Sep 2013 #19
Hydra Sep 2013 #20
dkf Sep 2013 #5
Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #7
pkdu Sep 2013 #8
dtom67 Sep 2013 #9
Summer Hathaway Sep 2013 #10
sibelian Sep 2013 #56
Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #12
OilemFirchen Sep 2013 #25
Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #72
randome Sep 2013 #16
dtom67 Sep 2013 #68
Kingofalldems Sep 2013 #23
snappyturtle Sep 2013 #18
kelliekat44 Sep 2013 #36
2ndAmForComputers Sep 2013 #69
pnwmom Sep 2013 #14
Skidmore Sep 2013 #15
randome Sep 2013 #17
FSogol Sep 2013 #21
FedUpWithIt All Sep 2013 #35
JoePhilly Sep 2013 #22
Kingofalldems Sep 2013 #24
Avalux Sep 2013 #27
msanthrope Sep 2013 #32
Comrade Grumpy Sep 2013 #37
woo me with science Sep 2013 #42
frylock Sep 2013 #43
joshcryer Sep 2013 #70
Hoyt Sep 2013 #26
randome Sep 2013 #28
dkf Sep 2013 #31
Orsino Sep 2013 #33
dkf Sep 2013 #34
Skidmore Sep 2013 #38
dkf Sep 2013 #40
Skidmore Sep 2013 #41
dkf Sep 2013 #49
Skidmore Sep 2013 #52
Orsino Sep 2013 #73
kenny blankenship Sep 2013 #54
wandy Sep 2013 #29
FedUpWithIt All Sep 2013 #30
1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #71
woo me with science Sep 2013 #39
phleshdef Sep 2013 #44
woo me with science Sep 2013 #46
polichick Sep 2013 #50
Kingofalldems Sep 2013 #47
Liberal_Stalwart71 Sep 2013 #48
The Straight Story Sep 2013 #51
Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #53
RC Sep 2013 #55
nashville_brook Sep 2013 #57
Waiting For Everyman Sep 2013 #58
MNBrewer Sep 2013 #59
kentuck Sep 2013 #60
Logical Sep 2013 #62
Union Scribe Sep 2013 #63
Nye Bevan Sep 2013 #64
Ruby the Liberal Sep 2013 #65
bvar22 Sep 2013 #67

Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:00 AM

1. Rather dispassionately I say...

That of Assad, Obama, and Putin, this development is most helpful to Assad.

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Response to David__77 (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:55 AM

13. Maybe that is for the best?

 

.
.
.

If Syria is pretty much left alone with it's internal strife,

Global War is not a concern.

But if the USA gets into a pissing contest with Russia, Iran, China and all the other NEIGHBORS of Syria;

Global war is indeed a possibility imo.

My concern now is that the MIC wants global war -


and it's gonna get it -

any way they can.

(sigh)

CC

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Response to David__77 (Reply #1)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:49 PM

66. most helpful to Assad?

...and most hurtful to Al Qaeda and the other radical Islamists "Rebel" factions??
Yes?

Thought so.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:05 AM

2. A couple of things...


Just because Obama didn't know 'when' Putin was going to come out and talk about the new proposal doesn't mean that Obama and Putin didn't talk about it at the G20 conference.

Also, Obama revises his speeches ALL the time - sometimes he makes changes right up until it's time to give a speech.

Obama revising his speech doesn't prove anything one way or the other.



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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:37 PM

45. So you're saying Obama is all-knowing, except when he isn't n/t

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Response to Tx4obama (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:24 PM

61. LOL, keep trying to spin it your way. Most of us know what really happened! n-t

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:08 AM

3. Please tell us

What your point is. Not being disrespectful....thread title and body do not make sense to me.

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Response to stevil (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:10 AM

4. They don't make any sense to me, either, stevil.

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Response to Suich (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:19 AM

6. The White House staff had to re-write the speech because the goal has changed.

 

If all along they had planned a rollout of a Russian-Syrian agreement, the speech should have been mostly done.

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Response to dkf (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:11 AM

11. Oh piffle. Presidential speeches are rewritten all the time.

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Response to dkf (Reply #6)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:38 AM

19. I would think this re-write is very tricky....can't wait to hear

the address especially because this newest approach was not
in the original plan of the U.S. ........should have been. imho



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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:51 AM

20. Ya, that should be interesting

This is totally off script, so will the President accept this change of events gracefully and say that we're done or will he ask for the authorization anyway "just in case"?

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Response to stevil (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:12 AM

5. What they woke up to is not where we are now hence the need for re-write of speech.

 

That's for the 11 dimension chess believers who think its all planned.

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Response to dkf (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:31 AM

7. Maybe you tiddly-winks players

should stay out of discussions about chess.

You only embarrass yourself when you try to look like you know what you're talking about.

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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:42 AM

8. ^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^

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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:52 AM

9. in any game, there is more than one player....

In THIS game, the russians are the ones that came out on top. They know,as anyone with any sense of honesty knows, that chemical weapons use is not why we are attacking. That crap is what we tell the bewildered herd in order to rally them behind military action. The russians offer up assad's chem weaps in order to illustrate the fact that we don't give a damned about thhose weapons. We will push to attack, even if the chems are surrendered. The reason the speech needs to be rewritten is that they will now have to add NEW REASONS to attack Syria, because the "chemical weapons" excuse is being undercut by the ruskies.
Have no fear, we WILL attack.

The Saudi's got their checkbook open. You know that means someone is gonna die.....


Oh,yeah btw... your "tiddlywinks" post isn't that compelling....

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Response to dtom67 (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:59 AM

10. Your "tiddlywinks" post isn't that compelling ...

And yet you felt compelled to respond to it.

"The reason the speech needs to be rewritten is that they will now have to add NEW REASONS to attack Syria, because the "chemical weapons" excuse is being undercut by the ruskies."

Yes, yes, of course. Aha. Yes, no doubt. Mm hmm, sure of it now.

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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:40 PM

56. Goodbye, Summer. nt


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Response to dtom67 (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:36 AM

12. The Game, the Go board, indeed, is much larger. Putin's judo, karate, intelligence-

inspired game is very effective...

Always with this in mind (and this is only to his South and West):


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#Martial_arts


... Hill contextualized Putin’s leadership style with his past as a practitioner of judo and operative in the KGB. “He likes to surprise his interlocutors in the political field,” she said. “And that’s what he really has tried to transform onto the political stage, this same kind of skill set internationally, to be able to take advantage of the mistakes of other world leaders. And that’s what he’s really doing in this case on Syria.”

/... http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/09/08/how-judo-and-kgb-tactics-inform-putins-diplomatic-strategy/


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Response to Ghost Dog (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:31 PM

25. This would have been a nice touch



It's not Paul Revere with a thumb drive, granted...

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Response to OilemFirchen (Reply #25)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:12 PM

72. Heh, yeah... Cool.

(No, seriously) Thanks for that!

--- ¿Why does that remind me of the likes of, ummm, Rudyard Kipling (or, say, Eric Blair). Mmm?

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Response to dtom67 (Reply #9)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:17 AM

16. 'Bewildered herd'. Speak for yourself.


A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers. It's still gonna hurt.

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Response to randome (Reply #16)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:55 PM

68. sorry, hoss...

but this is classic political democratic thought. The rule of the Polyarchy demands that the Public be led to reaching the correct decisions via emotional manipulation, NOT logical discourse.

That isn't what we were told growing up, but there you have it.

That is just the way it is ....

see Lippmann or Bernays and you will see what I mean.

and then check the dates they were formulating these ideas.

long time ago ......

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Response to Summer Hathaway (Reply #7)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:28 PM

23. Nice

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Response to dkf (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:35 AM

18. I would think this re-write is very tricky....can't wait to hear

the address especially because this newest approach was not
in the original plan of the U.S. ........should have been.

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Response to dkf (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:25 PM

36. "If" and "but." That's what Obama will do.

I have been asking people here to flood the WH.gov site with pleas to not attack Syria. I did this and at the same time I offered a suggestion to allow Assad to give up his chem stash and allow them to be destroyed and in return the USs would call off an "imminent" attack. Ask the Russians to negotiate with Assad to call the rebels into account while also offering them a chance to make their grievances known. Off a chance for the rebels...all groups...to meet together under UN security to air out their differences and come up with a plan that would allow them to work together to get Assad to make concessions on running the country with the rebels playing a role. But all sides must agree to allow Christians, and all Muslim sects to worship freely and operate their businesses without being subjected to warfare. Well at least the first half of the suggestion was thought of and seems to be in place.

If Assad agrees and seriously allows the takeover of his chemical weapons stashes than the next negotiation step could take place. But is he doesn't make a good faith effort than nations should proceed to wipe out these sites through covert ground operations by offering safe harbor to Assad's military generals and folks who know about the chemical weapons sites.

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Response to stevil (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:58 PM

69. It's an awful, disastrous, no-good day she had some 10 months ago.

Hasn't been the same since.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:04 AM

14. If Kerry's statement was a trial balloon, which I think, how would he have known

that it would succeed?

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:16 AM

15. Honestly don't know how to respond to such

naivete. In what world does anyone live where situations involving many players do not require some adjustment of course? The only thing your post suggests to me is that you are engaging in a certain rigidity of thinking and are trying to force the flow of events to fit your script. Contrary to the conventional wisdom that appears to prevail DU these days, not everyone in the world is privy too or involved in the grand conspiracy for world domination and destruction. Putin responded. Hence the rewrite. The speech will be adjusted to accommodate new information as events unfold.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #15)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:19 AM

17. 'Rigidity of thinking'.



A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers. It's still gonna hurt.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #15)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:54 AM

21. +1 Exactly. n/t

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #15)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:24 PM

35. Exactly

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:58 AM

22. The Combustible Hair Club is struggling today.

They've been predicting a 2nd Iraq, and the end of Obama's second term as a result.

And they can feel it all slipping away.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:30 PM

24. The President is doing a great job, much to the chagrin of some.

Oops.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #24)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:40 PM

27. And they've got it backwards.

Putin is not coming to Obama's rescue and saving his butt - he's forced to do this to keep Assad in power so that Syria remains stable, and Russia can maintain a presence in the middle east. They have their only military base outside of Russia in Syria. It's critical they can maintain the current arrangement. Obama has known this all and leveraged it.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #24)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:13 PM

32. You Better Believe It. nt

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #24)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:33 PM

37. Obama is fortunate to have found an exit strategy for his hugely unpopular Syria strike.

I congratulate him for realizing he was heading in the wrong direction and taking up the Russian proposal.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #37)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:18 PM

42. +1

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #37)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:32 PM

43. it would be nice to see some of his most ardent supporters acknowledge that..

rather than flipping the bird and insisting that this was scripted from jump.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #37)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:58 PM

70. He's always had an out, anyone who denies this isn't credible.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:36 PM

26. In these situations, keep a bunch of possibilities going, hope one breaks your way, and jump on it.


Appears that's exactly what Obama did.

I'll give him credit for that.

Or, I guess I could bash Obama by saying: I don't care if everything worked out well, Obama is bad, bad, bad. Obviously, I'm assuming everything will work out as hoped.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:41 PM

28. It's really, really important to you that Obama not take any credit for this, right?


A ton of bricks, a ton of feathers. It's still gonna hurt.

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Response to randome (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:12 PM

31. I give him credit for rolling with it. But I'm not going to credit him for something anyone

 

with half a brain knows isn't true.

Can't you all be reality based instead of imparting Obama with super Jedi tricks? You look so foolish sometimes.

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Response to dkf (Reply #31)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:17 PM

33. Considering how little we actually know that the president doesn't...

...I'm not ready to call him a hero or just lucky.

I'm not ready to write off a second term, either, not just because a speech got rewritten twenty-three times instead of twenty-two.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #33)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:20 PM

34. It should be obvious to you that Kerry didn't mean to make a proposal that would stop the bombing.

 

Anyone who is certain of the opposite I can't take seriously.

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Response to dkf (Reply #34)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:34 PM

38. As far as I can tell, you are the one making huge assumptions

about what others believe. I have written and read a number of posts by other DUers who have pointed to the leverage that maintaining a threat of a strike gives even in negotiations of a peaceful or political resolution. You can't realistically expect that Assad says "Okey-dokey" and everyone pats him on his head and goes home without making certain that there is follow through. That threat will linger for some time in the future whether you like it or not.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #38)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:38 PM

40. Of course it will linger. Even when Saddam got rid of WMD it lingered. Ask Qaddafi how well

 

Getting rid of nuclear ambitions works.

Syria is on the list. Eventually the neocons will be there.

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Response to dkf (Reply #40)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:01 PM

41. If you realize that, then why all of the

shock registered in your posts?

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #41)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:03 PM

49. Because I didn't think Obama would be the one to do it.

 

Silly me. I thought I was electing the driver who would keep us out of the ditch.

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Response to dkf (Reply #49)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:13 PM

52. Actually, the President has kept us out of the ditch.

He has been actively working on a way to get Syria back into the world community. Just now on MSNBC, the guy from Buzzfeed was on "The Cycle" and clearly stated that the idea for accounting for Syria's CWs was first discussed with Putin a full year ago. There is much that goes on in the negotiations between nations that none of us knows about. We see the results. The President is not an enemy but a man trying to do a thankless job.

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Response to Skidmore (Reply #52)

Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:56 AM

73. Yes. I can't speak to how well the president and SoS are doing...

...but at the moment, the situation looks a lot better than it did.

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Response to dkf (Reply #31)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:20 PM

54. I'll give him credit if he can resist the impulse to sneak excuses for a war into the agreement

He has been given a gift from Heaven here between Congress's cold shoulder and Russia's gesture. Also, it must be said that Britain's refusal to make the same mistake they made before is key - it has a huge impact on our Congress.

In order for this prospective agreement to NOT lead to future grief basically it has to be "meaningless". There's no way for an agreement about Syrian WMDs to be implemented to everyone's satisfaction during the middle of a fucking civil war. The importance or meaning of the hoped for agreement is all in allowing the two great powers to back away from a suicidal confrontation over a country that has no intrinsic value to either of us. Mr. Obama should have had enough time now to reflect on how incredibly stupid nearly getting us into WWIII over Syria was. He should studiously avoid any language that would enable or obligate the US (under his or any succeeding administration) to foolishly dangle its weenie over the Sarlacc of the Middle East EVER AGAIN.


Stay the fuck out!

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:46 PM

29. I wish we would stop looking at this in terms of giving Obama an "out"........

Russia has interests in that area and may have no desire for a long term chemical weapon conflict.
Much less for something akin to Iraq II.

If President Obama finds himself working with Mr. Putin to bring about a resolve, the worst I would accuse him of in that instance would be taking advantage of a good situation.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:10 PM

30. I haven't heard anyone imply it was "planned" They said it was thought of and discussed

There are multiple actors involved and an idea was discussed and then yesterday it was agreed to.

I am really having a hard time following along with all the vitriol being aimed at Obama. I think he and Kerry are handling things extremely well. It wasn't too long ago that we had an administration where a strike would have happened, without Congressional approval, disregarding public opinion, without diplomacy discussions and even in spite of concessions offered by other nations. Pauses for reflection, debate or consideration would not have been too likely.

It is beginning to seem as if people are simply bored and are jumping on this crisis for something new to entertain themselves. This isn't entertainment. This isn't a reality show. In the real world things take time. In the real world the solutions to conflict are not always so simple or black and white.

I am proud of my President through all of this.

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Response to FedUpWithIt All (Reply #30)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:09 PM

71. I think …

“I am really having a hard time following along with all the vitriol being aimed at Obama. … It is beginning to seem as if people are simply bored and are jumping on this crisis for something new to entertain themselves.”

You are being far to charitable. To better understand, visit the DU archives … or better yet, pick the 5-50 most vitriolic post you can find today, and enter the poster’s name into the site’s google search feature; but insert the date January, 2012, or even January 2009 … and read forward.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:37 PM

39. Of course they are. Enough of this Orwellian garbage.

It should chill every American that brazen, lying propaganda and rewriting of history appear to be the status quo now in political messaging in the United States of America.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #39)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:35 PM

44. Oh god, now you are spamming threads with the same cliche ass copy/paste sentence.

Your bitterness tastes so delightful.

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Response to phleshdef (Reply #44)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:38 PM

46. You must stop answering my posts.


People will say we're in love.

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Response to woo me with science (Reply #46)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:04 PM

50. LOL

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:56 PM

47. Good job Mr. President.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:00 PM

48. Only conservatives think in terms of black and white. No nuance. No flexibility. No reason...

Speeches are revised all the time. This is nothing new, folks.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:09 PM

51. His actions lead to this reaction from Russia and Syria, you sound disappointed (nt)

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:18 PM

53. "one of the most challenging moments of his presidency"

That phrase is overused.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:27 PM

55. I'm thinking this will be a different speech than originally scheduled.

 

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:59 PM

57. dang -- glad they're on top of that...for a while today it was

being reported that he was going ahead with the original. seriously.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:17 PM

58. I just love how

I get jumped on to the point of absolute nonsense even after being nice enough to self-delete an op that linked to the Daily Mail, because it was objected to that strongly; but you have a tweet from Brietbart News in yours and there are CRICKETS about it.

I'm not objecting, just finding the selective vision and selective outrage very interesting.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 05:18 PM

59. Rewriting the speech was always part of His plan.

Blessed be.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:23 PM

60. He's not writing the speech??

How do the speechwriters kniw what he thinks??????

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:25 PM

62. LOL, great point! n-t

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:27 PM

63. I'm sure it's part of the plan!

And I see the warhawk-turned-peacehawks have shown up to spread their peace upon you, lol.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:31 PM

64. Wow, the situation changing and things moving quickly,

in international negotiations involving several different countries and a weapons stockpile?

Really, I never heard of such a thing.

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:41 PM

65. Yeah right. They cooked this up at the G20 last week. nt

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Response to dkf (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:58 PM

67. Hey , Everybody, Watch THIS!!!

Its the Pee Wee Herman Defense:
He MEANT to do that!

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