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Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:14 PM

Turns out POTUS talked w Putin about this Russian plan last week in their 20-min pull aside at G20.



gwen ifill ✔ @gwenifill
Turns out POTUS talked w Putin about this Russian plan last week in their 20-min pull aside at G20. #Syria


https://twitter.com/intent/user?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2013%2F09%2F09%2F1237660%2F-Obama-is-smarter-than-I-am&screen_name=gwenifill&tw_i=377194654086610944&tw_p=tweetembed

...........................

Obama did not explain why neither he nor his aides chose not to publicly promote Putin’s idea until today, after Kerry’s remarks.

“This doesn’t solve the underlying terrible conflict inside of Syria,” Obama added to CNN. “But if we can accomplish this limited goal without taking military action, that would be my preference.”

Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/09/09/in-media-blitz-obama-says-russian-proposal-could-avert-syria-strike/#ixzz2eSKrxiks

>>>>>>>>>>>

so, Kerry has been playing "bad cop"?

Without the threat of military action hanging in the air, do you think Russia and Syria would've "agreed" to Kerry's "proposal"?

help me fill in the blanks DU!




Peace, i can smell it now,
kp

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Reply Turns out POTUS talked w Putin about this Russian plan last week in their 20-min pull aside at G20. (Original post)
kpete Sep 2013 OP
joshcryer Sep 2013 #1
Just Saying Sep 2013 #8
joshcryer Sep 2013 #9
Just Saying Sep 2013 #10
joshcryer Sep 2013 #21
Just Saying Sep 2013 #29
joshcryer Sep 2013 #30
tridim Sep 2013 #76
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #33
Just Saying Sep 2013 #39
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #42
NYC_SKP Sep 2013 #2
joshcryer Sep 2013 #3
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #43
Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #4
CreekDog Sep 2013 #5
Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #6
CreekDog Sep 2013 #7
nashville_brook Sep 2013 #17
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #53
davidpdx Sep 2013 #26
CreekDog Sep 2013 #52
davidpdx Sep 2013 #66
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #54
cliffordu Sep 2013 #13
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #55
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #56
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #57
1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #11
BlueCheese Sep 2013 #16
1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #25
Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #12
Barack_America Sep 2013 #38
Llewlladdwr Sep 2013 #14
KittyWampus Sep 2013 #20
Llewlladdwr Sep 2013 #23
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #78
joshcryer Sep 2013 #22
Llewlladdwr Sep 2013 #24
joshcryer Sep 2013 #34
Llewlladdwr Sep 2013 #44
joshcryer Sep 2013 #45
Llewlladdwr Sep 2013 #46
joshcryer Sep 2013 #47
Llewlladdwr Sep 2013 #49
joshcryer Sep 2013 #51
dionysus Sep 2013 #27
LittleBlue Sep 2013 #35
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #59
kpete Sep 2013 #77
alittlelark Sep 2013 #15
Uncle Joe Sep 2013 #18
KittyWampus Sep 2013 #19
dionysus Sep 2013 #28
joshcryer Sep 2013 #36
KittyWampus Sep 2013 #37
nobodyspecial Sep 2013 #40
Hekate Sep 2013 #63
Hekate Sep 2013 #62
Cha Sep 2013 #71
Hydra Sep 2013 #31
snappyturtle Sep 2013 #32
joshcryer Sep 2013 #50
jwirr Sep 2013 #41
joshcryer Sep 2013 #48
jwirr Sep 2013 #75
Hulk Sep 2013 #58
BlueStreak Sep 2013 #60
JoeyT Sep 2013 #61
gtar100 Sep 2013 #64
avaistheone1 Sep 2013 #68
Hekate Sep 2013 #65
TM99 Sep 2013 #67
ocpagu Sep 2013 #69
ocpagu Sep 2013 #70
CrispyQ Sep 2013 #79
stevenleser Sep 2013 #72
Cha Sep 2013 #73
Autumn Sep 2013 #74

Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:16 PM

1. Wow! That proves that it was planned.

Holy shit the war monger talk was really a bluff? Now I'm starting to think N-dimensional chess is real!

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #1)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:30 PM

8. Doesn't mean it was a bluff.

It is possible that strategic strikes were and are in the table because our government believes the regime used chemical weapons. They can (and should) be working on any number of fronts when dealing with a complicated issue like this.

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Response to Just Saying (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:32 PM

9. He said this was his preferred option.

In which case the talk was to force Russia's hand on the matter.

I'm not saying that strikes weren't on the table, I'm saying that they were off to the side, where Obama would rather not have had to do them.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:37 PM

10. Since I'm not of the mindset that this President is a

"Warmonger" to begin with, I would assume diplomacy is always his first choice. I think it certainly helps his diplomatic position if he appears willing and able to use other options if necessary. Our President and SOS are far more shrewd and knowledgable than the keyboard "experts" here at DU.

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Response to Just Saying (Reply #10)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:50 PM

21. Well, certainly the rhetoric was war-monger-esque.

But it sounds like they knew that they had to force Putin's hand on the matter or nothing would get done.

FYI I've been saying "let Russia decide" was always the best route.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #21)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:03 AM

29. Things just aren't that simple.

Our President certainly isn't a pacifist nor are most Americans even though most are against using force in Syria. He's the CIC and I don't believe he really has the luxury of ignoring a chemical weapons attack and he had to consider force as an option. From what I've seen, he felt some sort of attack was necessary but again, I don't think that makes him a "warmonger." I feel like so many people play Monday morning quarterback with complicated diplomatic issues. Few things in life are black and white. I don't envy the choices he has to make as President. There's a reason those guys look so much older when they leave office.

Russia is an obvious path to dealing with Syria although we can't trust either country. I think it's Syria's hand they forced but using Russia gives Syria a way to save face without appearing to cave to the US.

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Response to Just Saying (Reply #29)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:05 AM

30. That's fair enough.

Particularly the part about Syria's hand. I've no doubt that Russia / Putin didn't sign off on this without knowing beforehand what Syria's response would be.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #21)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:24 AM

76. The whole time he was saying that a political solution was his preference.

Neo-DU didn't hear it because of the fingers in their ears.

This Assad thing was played perfectly by the Obama Admin, as always.

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Response to Just Saying (Reply #10)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:07 AM

33. but I think he had to set the scene...he had to appear to be willing to stand up to MOST of the

country..including alot of Leftwingers to carry against him unmercifully.....to really slam him hard....He got to look really strong amid all that. He looked even more resolute....

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #33)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:13 AM

39. I actually believe President Obama was prepared to make a strategic strike

Against Syria or more specifically Assad's regime because he believes they used chemical weapons. I think they continued diplomacy all along but it seems to me he felt obligated to move here. I'm very pleased that diplomacy appears to have won out. Best for all involved.

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Response to Just Saying (Reply #39)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:17 AM

42. Yeah I think he wasn't playing....but the scene had to be set...

the negotiations were going on before the gas. Obama knows we are close to eliminating the CW....so they likely have been negotiating a long time...then the gas....that pissed Obama off. Here he is trying to neg. to get him to give em up...then he uses them? Obama was having no part of that I think...and that was the final straw.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:16 PM

2. Gamesmanship.

Obama haz it.



~

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:18 PM

3. Yeah, be all, "Sup Putin?"

"Yeah, so, all next week I'm going to talk about blowing shit up so it'd be wise of you to get on the same page with me about disarmament."

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:19 AM

43. Ha!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:18 PM

4. And now the heads will explode!

 

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #4)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:21 PM

5. can you link to a post that is an example of the love for Putin you complained has happened on DU?

just one example, one single instance of this worship or even sexual adoration of Putin that you say is occurring all over DU, just one even though you're suggesting there are countless examples of it.

just one example, or are you posting BS to get attention?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #5)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:24 PM

6. You, least of all, deserve any kind of answer from me

 

Enjoy the wonderful feeling of slamming me as a DU poster you were able to enjoy and leave it at that. I'm done with you.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:27 PM

7. you deserve to be criticized for posting an accusation that you don't even believe

you haven't provided a single example of the complaint you made.

because you don't even know of one post that is an example of loving and supporting Putin, especially in an amorous way.

it's just disruption is what it is.

and i'm supposed to be polite and not criticize that?

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:45 PM

17. +infinity...also, who loves Putin now?

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Response to nashville_brook (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:41 AM

53. God it feels good to be a Democrat!

I love the comedy gold!

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #5)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:01 AM

26. I don't think it's necessarily worship, but giving Putin more credit then he deserves

People were cheering him when he gave Snowden asylum as the giver of freedom. My point is that goes both ways. This is the same guy that pushes discriminatory anti-gay laws in Russia right before hosting the Olympic Games. The timing on that is seriously suspect. He has continued to back Assad both in military weapons, cash, and by proxy in the UN with a veto vote. The guy has been president for years and probably will continue to be president as long as he wants to. There is very little difference between him and Assad in my opinion. Also Russia is also one of the most corrupt countries in the world according to Transparency International.

The Olympic Committee made a grave mistake awarding Russia the games next year.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #26)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:41 AM

52. yes, but is the OP we're talking about complaining that DUers gave Putin more credit than deserved?

not really.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #52)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:29 AM

66. I'm just giving you my perspective

I'm not saying I agree with him completely. I do agree that some on DU hold him up to be some kind of hero he really isn't.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #26)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:44 AM

54. but but but...I thought Russia was soooo modern and forward thinking now...

You know...Putin is just a figurehead these days from what I have been hearing around here!

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:40 PM

13. I WILL NEVER

play basketball, chess, or 'who blinks first' with that fucker. NEVER.

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:44 AM

55. LOL!!!!

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Response to cliffordu (Reply #13)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:46 AM

57. and watch out for thumb wrestling...cause he is a cagey Mofo...

even his thumbs...!

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:38 PM

11. No ...

that can't be the case!

Let's just stick with the DU narrative:

I seasoned statesman of serious diplomatic weight makes a throw away comment, less than a week or so after the President has a non-meeting meeting with the only person on Earth that is standing in the way of the UN resolving this CW matter. And that person, who happens to be the only person on Earth that can apply (non-military) pressure to the Assad regime, just happens to pick up on said throw away line, that the Assad regime is suddenly happy to entertain.

Yeah ... that makes me feel better, because then I would have to think about questions like, Why would an allied senior diplomat ask another senior allied diplomat a question, in an open forum that, being an ally he would already have an answer to? Or, why would Putin agree to carry this bucket of water?

Yeah ... let's just stick with the just blind, dumb luck model.

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Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #11)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:43 PM

16. Wasn't it a reporter who asked the question?

In any case, there's nothing wrong with having stumbled into this, which seems very likely to be the case. Whatever ends up working is fine with me.

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #16)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:01 AM

25. I'm sorry ...

you are correct ... the comment was made during a press conference.

But that said, I don't believe that Kerry stumbled. I think it was planned.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:40 PM

12. I think we have been watching good cop/bad cop

And if it's true Assad is losing control of his military, it may have all been for Assad's benefit to get the chemical weapons away from his generals/brother.

Set that up on your 11-D chess board and hit the move clock!

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Response to Bolo Boffin (Reply #12)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:08 AM

38. Seems pretty clear. Kerry makes a pretty obvious bad cop.

Aggression is clearly not 1st nature to him, but he did pretty well.

Can you just see Obama all, "Listen, Vladimir, I understand your position with Assad, and I want to work with you. But my SOS, he's dead-set on a strike".

LOL

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:41 PM

14. Wow. You guys will believe absolutely anything.

So what exactly was the point of all this n-th dimensional chess playing? Why would the Administration deliberately make themselves look foolish? Why set Putin up to be the white knight?

The President got very lucky here. And there's no telling what Putin is getting in return for his support. I'm anticipating a slowdown in any criticism of Russia's new anti-LGBT legislation and no more talk about moving or boycotting the 2014 Winter Olympics.

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:50 PM

20. did it ever occur to you that looking foolish doesn't bother either Obama or Kerry if their goal

is either ultimately accomplished or at least moved closer?

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:56 PM

23. Looking foolish is never a good idea for a head of state.

Nor is looking confused or weak.

I'd like to know what Putin gets out of this deal. Maybe the Admin backs off on Snowden and Russia's new anti-gay legislaion?



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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #23)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:56 AM

78. so your suggestion is rather than look foolish....go to war?

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:52 PM

22. How does this make them look foolish?

It prevents them from having to call out Russia, that's all. Otherwise it appears that Russia's been the target in this all along.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #22)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:00 AM

24. The Administration looked confused and inept.

The SoS was saying one thing while the WH was saying another. Support for a strike against Syria simply wasn't there and wasn't going to be there, even from the President's own party. Then along comes Putin to the rescue.

Sorry, but it just doesn't inspire confidence.

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #24)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:07 AM

34. The President maintained he could do it without support.

Which is the very reason that Russia was compelled to do something, the risk of that happening was too big to ignore, even if it was near zero.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #34)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:20 AM

44. The only thing the Russians have done so far is buy their Syrian clients time.

Time that can be used to hide any chemical or other weapons of mass destruction.

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #44)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:22 AM

45. Which Juan Cole believes is what the US wants.

Because the US needs time to reenforce the rebel groups and get rid of AQ elements within them.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #45)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:26 AM

46. The US wants Syria to have time to hide their chemical weapons?

And how exactly is the US going to "get rid" of any AQ allied rebels?

The chess keeps getting deeper....

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #46)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:30 AM

47. The US wants more time.

Period.

Assad's use of chemical weapons could easily wipe out the rebel threat.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #47)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:34 AM

49. I'm getting confused.

The US was the one threatening an attack. I don't think there's any doubt that we were in control of the time table. If we wanted more time all we had to do was take it. Why involve the Russians?

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #49)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:39 AM

51. Because we feared chemical weapons would be a game changer.

Thus time runs out on us and our side loses.

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #14)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:02 AM

27. desperation.. showin.....

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #14)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:07 AM

35. +1

This strains credulity. Why wait until moments after Kerry's statement? Why continue to make war statements this week when you had an agreement last week? Why wait did Obama wait until now to announce this?

Should be obvious to everyone why, and it's very embarrassing.

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #14)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:54 AM

59. so since you don't play n-th degree chess...do you know the game of poker..

if so...now put Assad, Pootie and Obama and Kerry at a table playing 5-Card...

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #14)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:29 AM

77. Llewlladdwr

there is only
one bell ringing in my ears:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/61599/the-one-graph-that-sums-up-why-we-re-going-to-war-with-syria



I may wish
& I may hope
but everything else i read or hear
seems to be window-dressing
or theater...

Frank Zappa said it best
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry.



peace will come
in some era,
perhaps not ours...

kp

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:41 PM

15. It's all Kabuki Theatre for the 99%.

......let's not kid ourselves....

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:48 PM

18. It's a hybrid

multidimensional poker and carrot/stick game, with the players being the Obama Administration, Congress, Russia, Syria, we the people of the U.S. most vocally here at D.U. the European Nations, and probably a few others as well.

Either most everyone will start whacking one another or we get to eat some salad.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:48 PM

19. Remember when Obama was on tv doing the Press Club comedy bit and bin Laden was being deep sixed?

I'M WAVING MY HAND IN YOUR FACE

while my other hand is doing something else.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:03 AM

28. no, he's simultaneously an incompetant idiot and an evil mastermind to morons here.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:07 AM

36. Heh.

So true.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:08 AM

37. DU'ers were so busy humping Snowden/Greenwald they missed anything else. I posted a bunch of stuff

from weeks and months ago from mainstream press on Syria and also some on Kerry.

Just because a lot of DU'ers weren't paying attention, doesn't mean nothing was being done.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:14 AM

40. Nailed it

That's why I spend so little time here.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #28)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:29 AM

63. +2, Dionysus

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:28 AM

62. +1, Kitty

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #19)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:19 AM

71. Excellent example, K. That is willfully ignored because you know..

Putin rawks.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:06 AM

31. Kerry made an oops

Putin said "Check that shit out...hmmm..."

The funny thing is, we may have been saved by Kerry's oops. Ironic, isn't it?

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:07 AM

32. I think by the time the President and Putin met, the President

saw the writing on the wall. With many countries at the G-20
urging the President not to strike Syria, the vote of the British
Parliament and American citizens voicing a big "no", the
President had to do something....obviously it was an option
he was aware of (too bad he didn't offer it up first to the UN)
that would help him save face from the red line remark and
appear less warlike if he proposed to Syria via Russia to turn
over chemical weapons.

As happy as I am about these developments, the President
himself said this doesn't solve the underlying problems in Syria
and I truly believe TPTB want confrontation. Peace?...maybe
for the time being; hopefully that will become long term.

I think Syria and Russia are well aware of the destruction we
can cause and would have acquiesced to the proposal without
the threatening and drum beating. imho

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #32)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:37 AM

50. Well, this works to "save face" for the "red line" comment.

Obama can say "Look, even Russia agrees with me about chemical weapons." I think the "red line" is the morally correct position to have, which is why my post is about Russia agreeing with that position as opposed to anything else.

I think image isn't the biggest thing here though which perhaps my post failed to show (if anything I think I made it more about image). Russia has a lot of interests in Syria, from arms deals, to naval bases, to Russia's Gazprom.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:16 AM

41. Could it be that Putin needed to talk to Assad before anything could be done? It would explain the

delay in announcing the idea.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #41)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:32 AM

48. Just Saying (the poster in this thread) suggested that. I think that's a fair point.

But I don't think it changes things since Russia wasn't budging on this issue for weeks.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #48)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:17 AM

75. Agreed but this is worth a try. It saves lives if they can get it done,.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:50 AM

58. teabaggers and fox-nonsense aren't going bite on this one...

I know..that's a "no matter" deal; but it is hard to swallow. Let's just say that the threat of a strategic military strike was enough to get their attention. That "attention" may have been enough to make them willing to part with their chemical weapons. That's plausible, but you'll never hear that on fox-nonsense. They LOVE to bash this POTUS. Remember..he is the devil to a good number of these imbeciles.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:58 AM

60. It is all Kabuki theater

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama told Putin something like "Hey, I'm under all sorts of pressure. The Israelis are looking for any reason to start flame throwing. I needed to ramp up the rhetoric to stop all the loose talk about chopping our NSA -- you understand that, right? Neither of us really wants to see al Qaeda get a foothold in Syria, but I can't be seen supporting Assad either. And Qatar is all over me to clear the way for a pipeline through Syria. Here's the deal. If you tell Assad to give up all his chemical weapons, that will cut the legs out from under the Israelis, but I won't be the bad guy on that -- and neither will you. We'll let Assad stay put for awhile, but tell him he's got to tone it down. He's making life tough for both of us."

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:16 AM

61. If this had been the goal from the start,

I don't think the usual suspects wouldn't have been out screaming for blood.

So it turns out we totally DON'T care how many people he kills, as long as he doesn't do it in a way we disapprove of, which is the exact opposite of the narrative the people cavorting around neenering were pushing a week ago.

Either way, I don't care if it was the original intent or not: Solving it without lobbing explosives at people is a good outcome.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:35 AM

64. Regardless of this ridiculous "multidimensional chess" analogy, where would any of us be if there

were no opposition to these trumpets of war? You can try to guess motives and intentions but if an acting president of the United States expresses support for military action on suspicious grounds, then he or she deserves all the criticism due. War is sick and cruel and if we are the aggressor, it is even more sickening because we clearly have alternatives. Is the glee expressed in this thread because somehow "our guy won" and those who criticized him lost? Lost what? War is a pathological sickness and anybody who stood up to say no to it is showing signs of sanity. We lose when we go to war for reasons other than pure self defense. And even then, there is no "winning", there is only surviving. So criticizing President Obama for touting the possibility of war (and we aren't out of the woods yet) is fully justified and absolutely necessary if we want to avoid a mistake that has been made countless times before. If he says he's willing to use military action, I'll take him at his word. Who are we to say he doesn't really mean it? Without vocal opposition to war, who will be there to stop it?

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Response to gtar100 (Reply #64)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:37 AM

68. Your make a lot of sense.



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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:36 AM

65. There's no peace to smell, kpete. Syria's a mess, and we all know it.

God willing we can hope for an existence for the Syrians that doesn't involve multitudes of rebel groups plus the government killing the populace wholesale. But peace? -- I'm not that sanguine.

As for the POTUS and his SOS, they have good negotiating skills and believe in negotiation. But some entities you have to whack upside the head before you can get their attention, because they don't play nice.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:36 AM

67. Occam's razor

The Obama Administration expressed what we saw on the national stage as a desire for strong military action as a run up to war in Syria.

Putin is attempting a diplomatic solution which may or may not be acceptable to all parties involved.

Nth dimensional chess, poker, etc. explanations are bullshit.

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Response to TM99 (Reply #67)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:57 AM

69. Exactly. Thank you. n/t

 

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:20 AM

70. Bullshit.

 

If it were not for the overwhelming opposition from citizens in the US and the world, who were able to see through the lies, to bear the manipulation attempts of the media campaign and their irresponsible show of corpses of children, the world leaders of all nations who went out to in opposition, NGOs correcting misinformation spread by the US government, the UN chief saying that US was on the brink of committing a war crime, independent media and the (each time more sporadic) honest journalists of mainstream media, and Putin's mediation, bombs would be falling in Syria right now.

MIC would never let the opportunity go. The goal is regime change. Why else is the US government infiltrating agents to train the rebels in Syria and supplying them with weapons? How many remarks of US military officer and thinks tanks have been made public, corroborating the strategy.

It's plausible that positions were taken in advance before disclosing information in public, of course. It doesn't mean this has been planned all the way - which seems really, really unlikely. Obama had nothing to gain out of it, nor Putin, and you simply don't handle an international crisis like it's a poker match or chess - let alone create one. If it was planned, well, that was the worse plan ever.

Let's not hijack the merit of the ones who really opposed this senseless war FROM THE BEGINNING.

And it's being sadly entertaining to see people who were screaming "let's bomb them to save them from gas" last week are now holding hands and singing Kumbaya because the dear leader changed his mind...

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Response to ocpagu (Reply #70)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:37 AM

79. Post of the day!

The whole enchilada, but this especially rocks:

And it's being sadly entertaining to see people who were screaming "let's bomb them to save them from gas" last week are now holding hands and singing Kumbaya because the dear leader changed his mind...

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:27 AM

72. At this point everyone is just going to believe their preferred narrative anyway. I'm just glad that

For now a strike seems to have been averted by a potential compromise.

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:28 AM

73. Apparently some people can't

wrap their heads around the fact that President Obama and SOS Kerry have been busy using diplomacy and negotiations for awhile now, unbeknownst to a bunch of internet warriors.

That would be so disappointing to the much preferred.. "warmonger burp" "warmonger!!!1111"

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Response to kpete (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:40 AM

74. It doesn't matter. It worked out in a good way. Two world leaders

talked it out and came together and they seemed to have solved a nasty threat and problem. I don't care which one made the first leap. I would imagine we will find out what was what in their biographies.

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