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Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:21 PM

No, Obama does not got this. No, he is not Brilliant. No, this was never his plan.

Speaking at a news conference with British Foreign Secretary William Hague, Kerry said that al-Assad “could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week.”

The U.S. secretary of state described that as an impossible scenario.

“He isn’t about to do it,” Kerry said. “And it can’t be done, obviously.”

The State Department later sought to clarify Kerry’s comment as a “rhetorical argument,” and one U.S. official called it a “major goof,” adding that America’s top diplomat “clearly went off script.”

“There is no one in the administration who is taking this Syria proposal seriously,” the official said.


Read more: http://pix11.com/2013/09/09/hillary-clinton-important-step-if-syria-surrenders-chemical-weapons/#ixzz2eQzaDDdU


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Reply No, Obama does not got this. No, he is not Brilliant. No, this was never his plan. (Original post)
grahamhgreen Sep 2013 OP
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #1
Llewlladdwr Sep 2013 #2
wisteria Sep 2013 #90
Californeeway Sep 2013 #114
ellenrr Sep 2013 #125
polichick Sep 2013 #3
grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #4
Marr Sep 2013 #12
leveymg Sep 2013 #54
Raksha Sep 2013 #71
ellenrr Sep 2013 #126
1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #104
gulliver Sep 2013 #130
Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #5
MNBrewer Sep 2013 #8
geek tragedy Sep 2013 #9
Scootaloo Sep 2013 #33
geek tragedy Sep 2013 #50
Scootaloo Sep 2013 #59
LukeFL Sep 2013 #65
Number23 Sep 2013 #144
1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #105
Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #10
MNBrewer Sep 2013 #13
Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #14
MNBrewer Sep 2013 #16
Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #18
MNBrewer Sep 2013 #23
Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #34
MNBrewer Sep 2013 #37
Just Saying Sep 2013 #110
geek tragedy Sep 2013 #6
KittyWampus Sep 2013 #7
Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #11
DJ13 Sep 2013 #19
treestar Sep 2013 #27
DisgustipatedinCA Sep 2013 #31
treestar Sep 2013 #112
Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #35
treestar Sep 2013 #111
arely staircase Sep 2013 #30
Sheepshank Sep 2013 #139
Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #141
Sheepshank Sep 2013 #143
Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #145
Sheepshank Sep 2013 #139
cigsandcoffee Sep 2013 #17
arely staircase Sep 2013 #32
kelliekat44 Sep 2013 #113
rug Sep 2013 #24
grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #69
geek tragedy Sep 2013 #74
grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #78
Lady Freedom Returns Sep 2013 #83
HangOnKids Sep 2013 #117
Lady Freedom Returns Sep 2013 #151
Bobbie Jo Sep 2013 #153
HangOnKids Sep 2013 #117
Logical Sep 2013 #92
zeemike Sep 2013 #97
geek tragedy Sep 2013 #100
zeemike Sep 2013 #103
grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #115
Logical Sep 2013 #91
panzerfaust Sep 2013 #127
geek tragedy Sep 2013 #134
geek tragedy Sep 2013 #134
cigsandcoffee Sep 2013 #15
bhikkhu Sep 2013 #95
RC Sep 2013 #137
pampango Sep 2013 #20
treestar Sep 2013 #26
snappyturtle Sep 2013 #99
pampango Sep 2013 #122
snappyturtle Sep 2013 #123
ProSense Sep 2013 #21
4bucksagallon Sep 2013 #85
treestar Sep 2013 #22
Skraxx Sep 2013 #25
Madam Mossfern Sep 2013 #38
Skraxx Sep 2013 #51
Madam Mossfern Sep 2013 #58
Skidmore Sep 2013 #124
SidDithers Sep 2013 #48
JI7 Sep 2013 #28
sheshe2 Sep 2013 #29
dionysus Sep 2013 #41
sheshe2 Sep 2013 #45
Lady Freedom Returns Sep 2013 #73
Lady Freedom Returns Sep 2013 #70
sheshe2 Sep 2013 #76
Lady Freedom Returns Sep 2013 #86
sheshe2 Sep 2013 #88
Lady Freedom Returns Sep 2013 #94
Cha Sep 2013 #150
sheshe2 Sep 2013 #155
krawhitham Sep 2013 #36
pnwmom Sep 2013 #39
CoffeeCat Sep 2013 #101
pnwmom Sep 2013 #102
BlueCheese Sep 2013 #40
HooptieWagon Sep 2013 #44
CakeGrrl Sep 2013 #42
bvar22 Sep 2013 #43
HooptieWagon Sep 2013 #46
pnwmom Sep 2013 #47
bvar22 Sep 2013 #49
HooptieWagon Sep 2013 #53
bvar22 Sep 2013 #62
HooptieWagon Sep 2013 #64
CakeGrrl Sep 2013 #116
geek tragedy Sep 2013 #55
HooptieWagon Sep 2013 #60
geek tragedy Sep 2013 #63
morningfog Sep 2013 #67
geek tragedy Sep 2013 #68
morningfog Sep 2013 #72
geek tragedy Sep 2013 #75
morningfog Sep 2013 #79
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #82
bobduca Sep 2013 #106
geek tragedy Sep 2013 #52
sheshe2 Sep 2013 #84
VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #87
davidpdx Sep 2013 #96
bvar22 Sep 2013 #149
CakeGrrl Sep 2013 #119
Number23 Sep 2013 #146
LittleBlue Sep 2013 #56
Union Scribe Sep 2013 #81
ProSense Sep 2013 #109
JoeyT Sep 2013 #121
SidDithers Sep 2013 #128
Name removed Sep 2013 #133
nashville_brook Sep 2013 #148
LukeFL Sep 2013 #57
Liberal Veteran Sep 2013 #61
dionysus Sep 2013 #66
YvonneCa Sep 2013 #89
4bucksagallon Sep 2013 #93
Comrade Grumpy Sep 2013 #77
grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #80
joshcryer Sep 2013 #108
LostOne4Ever Sep 2013 #98
TheKentuckian Sep 2013 #120
spanone Sep 2013 #107
sufrommich Sep 2013 #129
Sheepshank Sep 2013 #147
tjwash Sep 2013 #131
Bolo Boffin Sep 2013 #132
RC Sep 2013 #136
nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #138
IsItJustMe Sep 2013 #142
bravenak Sep 2013 #152
cliffordu Sep 2013 #154

Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:22 PM

1. for you...

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:25 PM

2. Amazing isn't it?

Some folks just aren't reality oriented. The Administration's handling of this issue has been horrible.

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #2)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:23 PM

90. +1 n/t

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:47 AM

114. it strikes me as laughable and wildly arrogant


the way that people talk with such assurance about how horrible the handling has been, so sure that there must be some simple solution that Obama refuses to use out of evil or corruption or stupidity. Maybe it's a horrible situation for which there is no easy answer. Maybe there isn't a single person on the planet who could come up with anything better. I know that the majority had their way, we would have walked away and done nothing, and it would have constituted absolute moral failure.

If no more people are gassed and we accomplish that without having to use force, We win. We all win. You, me, Obama, the human race in general, everyone but Assad. It's look like that might happen and looks like once again, Obama has made a really really big bluff and pulled it off. If you are still reaching for a way to paint Obama in a bad light at this stage in the game, well, I find your arguments all the less persuasive.

I'm glad Obama didn't walk away from this, I'm glad he was willing to go out on a limb and stake out an unpopular position to try and make the right thing happen here.

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Response to Llewlladdwr (Reply #2)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:08 AM

125. +++ nt

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:27 PM

3. If it turns out well and we avoid military action, I'll be thrilled...

but it's hard to believe it was all planned - too many moving pieces.

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Response to polichick (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:30 PM

4. We'll see, I still fear he's just giving lip service and a week from now they'll be telling us why

it can't be done.

Most likely they'll put so many stipulations on it as to make it impossible for Assad to comply.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #4)


Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #4)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:30 PM

54. He didn't have the votes in the House. Maybe not in the Senate. Simple as that.

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Response to leveymg (Reply #54)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:03 PM

71. Simple as that. n/t

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:30 AM

126. that's possible, otoh, having seen the extreme outraged reaction by the people

to the idea of war,
perhaps they will take this as a way to NOT go to war, without 'losing face'.

hope so

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Response to polichick (Reply #3)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:04 PM

104. What do you think ...

President Obama and Putin talked about during their non-meeting meetings at the G-20?

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Response to polichick (Reply #3)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:34 AM

130. It doesn't have to be planned.

As they say in baseball, if you put the ball in play, you get results. Obama has taken strong, correct (imo) steps all along on this. That increases the odds for a positive outcome that might not necessarily be known in advance. Compare that to Bush the Lesser.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:32 PM

5. oh, but wait. then the TOP GUY says this

 

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #5)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:38 PM

8. What, exactly, in that linked article contradicts the premise of the OP?

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:40 PM

9. The OP's premise is that Obama is stupid and can achieve things only

through dumb luck.

Typical ODS Type 1. Their previous rant was how Obama wanted war more than anything else on the planet, including stuff he had already accomplished.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #9)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:04 PM

33. Actually that doesn't seem to be the OP's point

I suppose if you're operating on a binary scale where a person can only be extremely brilliant or extremely stupid, sure. But nobody thinks like that.

This was not he plan put forth by the Obama administration. This is Vladimir Putin, jumping on something Kerry said off-handedly, Syria agreeing with the idea, and the Obama administration being caught by surprise.

It's not that Obama and Kerry are dumb men. They're not. it's that they're not the only smart guys involved here. Obama, Putin, Assad, Kings Abdullah and Abdullah, Netanyahu, Khamenei, all of these guys are bright dudes who are playing their own games and who will catch the other people involved by surprise. This time it was Obama's turn to go "wait, what?"

And if he decides to go with the idea, that's great, I'm happy that he makes that choice. But he didn't see it coming. if he had he wouldn't have spent all this time, energy, and political capital to drum up domestic support for a war with Syria.

What I wonder about are the DU posters who have been hoping to have some dead Syrians in the near future, who are very suddenly embracing a non-war solution and acting like they were behind it all along. Sorry motherfuckers, you don't get to accuse me of wanting to personally gas people myself if i don't support the president's call for war, and then get to act like you were in on it all along.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #33)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:27 PM

50. Obama and Kerry are much smarter than their smartest supporters here, let alone

their dumbest supporters here.

Do we really know how much of what Kerry was saying was a mistake vs a trial balloon, or how much of it was legit war-mongering vs a bluff to increase leverage in behind the scenes negotiations?

No one here knows that. People here have assumptions, not knowledge.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #50)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:43 PM

59. Oh, I have NO doubts that they're smarter than their "supporters" here

But that's not setting the bar terribly high, if you ask me.

Did Kerry make a mistake (I hate the word "gaffe," it's as bad as the "-gate" suffix!) No, because to make a mistake you have to be trying to do something. He was simply answering a question at a conference with his own opinion, not setting forth a policy that could succeed or fail. There's just no mistake to be made. According to CNN, this is how it went:
Assad "could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week," Kerry said during a news conference with British Foreign Secretary William Hague. "But he isn't about to do it and it can't be done obviously."

In the same breath, Kerry makes it very clear he doesn't believe this is anything more than a rhetorical idea - he holds that Assad will never agree to such a thing, no way no how.

So when Assad comes up and says "Yeah, I'll do that," with the backing of Russia... Well, saying such a thing would catch the administration by surprise. That's not putting down the administration, it's simply noting that that's some shit that they not only didn't expect, but had clearly stated they did not expect.

I think that Kerry and Obama were very sincere about wanting to bomb Syria, very serious. if they're willing ot take this opportunity, that's great. But let's not pretend this was their design all along.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #59)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 09:16 PM

65. That's not how it went

This is what he said:

"When asked by a reporter in London whether there was anything Assad's government could do or offer to stop a military strike, Kerry answered:

"Sure, he could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week - turn it over, all of it without delay and allow the full and total accounting (of it), but he isn't about to do it and it can't be done."

http://news.yahoo.com/kerry-syrian-handover-chemical-arms-could-prevent-attack-093723966.html

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #59)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:43 PM

144. But I keep hearing that EVERYONE on DU "supports" this president and that NOBODY "hates" him

here, all fucking evidence to the contrary, of course.

So exactly to whom are your opening comments directed?

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #50)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:11 PM

105. Assumptions based upon ...

a basic misunderstanding on how things are done in diplomatic circles.

All I can say is I am sooo glad that no one regularly posting on DU is anywhere near policy or diplomatic circles.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #8)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:41 PM

10. the part where some unnamed sourced says “There is no one in the administration who is taking this

 

seriously." But then the ACTUAL PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES and COMMANDER IN CHIEF says he will work with Kerry to run this to ground and follow up to see if this is a credible offer and he's willing to pursue it as a way to avert war and also stop proliferation and use of chemical weapons.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #10)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:46 PM

13. All the while indicating that he's skeptical

I don't see that as really treating it seriously. We'll see how he proceeds on this to determine whether anyone is taking this seriously.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #13)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:47 PM

14. why wouldn't he be skeptical. It's rather late breaking

 

considering Syria wouldn't even admit they had chem weapons prior to today.

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #14)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:50 PM

16. Smells like bull shit

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #16)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:52 PM

18. smells like olfactory problems. that is all you want to smell

 

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #18)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:56 PM

23. "Syria wouldn't even admit they had chem weapons prior to today"

Any support?

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Response to Pretzel_Warrior (Reply #34)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:08 PM

37. That does not support your assertion.

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Response to MNBrewer (Reply #37)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:27 PM

110. It's true.

Syria's government acknowledged for the first time Monday that it had weapons of mass destruction, saying it has the capability to use its chemical and biological weapons in case of a foreign attack.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443437504577544632378473006.html

What's bullshit is that people don't understand that the President might be skeptical while negotiating with Syria thru Russia.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:35 PM

6. Awwww, someone's bitter that they can't bash Obama for being a warmonger. nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:37 PM

7. it's crazy watching people get so twisted. They are consumed by hate. Sad.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:43 PM

11. "Consumed byhate"? After voting for him twice?

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #11)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:53 PM

19. But they never really loved him



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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #11)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:01 PM

27. That claim is not provable on the internet

Actions speak louder than words. People who vote for someone usually don't find everything they did in office to be wrong.

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Response to treestar (Reply #27)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:04 PM

31. LOYALTY OATH VIOLATION!!11! LOYALTY OATH VIOLATION!!

Good catch. Now, what should we do with posters who don't show the right amount of reverence?

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #31)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:25 AM

112. Uncalled for

Has nothing to do with my point.

Someone who doesn't like anything a politician does is unlikely to be someone who voted for him.

Some people are never positive. They seem to thrive on negativity. It's unlikely such people would do something positive, like campaign or vote.

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Response to treestar (Reply #27)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:06 PM

35. Why is it so hard to believe they're genuinely opposed to ridiculous wars sold by lies?

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #35)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:22 AM

111. because this issue does not involve a ridiculous war sold by lies

how hard is it to distinguish between this issue and Iraq?

Plus it's suspicious that they NEVER find someone they voted for to be right.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #11)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:03 PM

30. and gave him money and knocked on so many doors

and now just gonna take that bumper sticker off their cars because he's so bad.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #11)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:36 AM

139. attempting to validate present day Obama hate, using the same old arguement.....I voted for hime 2x

1/2 the time these people stated that they only reason they voted for Obama was there were no other choices, not because it was a pro election effort.

This "I voted for him twice" crap sounds more and more like, "Of course I'm not racist, I know some black people that are really cool" or "Of course I'm not a homophobe, a know two gay people and I really like them".

Seriously, get a new line that actually means something.

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #139)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:42 AM

141. Voting for Obama twice is the new "I'm not racist, I have black friends"?

Denial is confession! BTW -- Have you stopped stealing from your employer yet?

Of course nothing the President did could ever have led to the falling out from his base. He's totally an innocent by-stander of his own actions which are wholly blameless and innocent in all their manifestations. We're not real democrats. The whole anti-war thing is just a façade -- for racism, apparently. We're so racist we hate the black guy for wanting to blow-up brown people. If McCain's lily white ass was the one ordering the strikes, we'd totally be cheering this on. You found us out; you must be so proud of your mad internet profiling skills.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #141)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:24 PM

143. **ATTACK DOG MODE** got it, it was the only defense.

and yes, it's just like the title of your post

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Response to Sheepshank (Reply #143)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:47 PM

145. We don't deserve to vote Democratic! How ever can we regain your trust?

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #11)


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #7)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:51 PM

17. Maybe they're just consumed by hate for cruise missiles.

Kerry goofing us in to a potential political solution doesn't negate the fact the Administration is ready to use them in a war of choice.

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Response to cigsandcoffee (Reply #17)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:04 PM

32. those cruise missiles seemed to have focused mr. assad's mind nt

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Response to cigsandcoffee (Reply #17)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:30 AM

113. No, they just really hate Obama. And the possibility of getting out of attacking Syria with Chem

weapons under international control or better yet, destroyed, is making them really sick. nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:57 PM

24. Give it a few days.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:01 PM

69. You mean he's stopped monging? Attacking Syria alone is off the table?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #69)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:09 PM

74. Which is it with you folks?

Is he the evil genius who orchestrates and coordinates campaigns to destroy all that is good with the world, or is he the bumbling idiot who hasn't achieved a single thing by design?

I mean, I understand your psychological need to hate on him 24/7 just like the Teabaggers do, but is it too much to ask that you pick one script and stick to it?

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #74)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:13 PM

78. Uhhhh, can I pick both, LOL;)

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #74)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:15 PM

83. Have to agree on that one!

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:48 PM - Edit history (1)

We seem to have two camps when it comes to the Obama Haters.

One seems to think he is a "evil genius who orchestrates and coordinates campaigns to destroy all that is good with the world".

The other side seems to put him into the "bumbling idiot" column.

They have come together here and are getting themselves all messes up.

I think they need a conclave and get it strait on how they want to take it.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #83)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:57 AM

117. Literacy is your friend

"They other seems to put him into the "bumbling idiot" column. " That is a red hot mess.

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #117)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:46 PM

151. When one is on their feet for 10 and a half hours strait with zero breaks...

Literacy ends up taking a back seat.

Thank you Bush and "Right to Work".

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Response to HangOnKids (Reply #117)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:18 PM

153. Indeed

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #83)


Response to geek tragedy (Reply #74)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:25 PM

92. He is not an idiot. Anything he has done or not done was planned all along. n-t

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #74)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:27 PM

97. You know what else you don't understand?

The false dichotomy....either one extreme or the other...it always comes down to that.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #97)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:47 PM

100. Um, y'all show as much nuance towards Obama

as Fred Phelps would show to a screening of Behind the Candelabra.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #100)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:03 PM

103. Well there is no nuance to with us or against us.

Or he is either the most evil or the best ever.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #103)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:55 AM

115. Just a common used war salesman, LOL

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #6)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:24 PM

91. And you are sad that this pressure from all dems changed his mind all of the sudden! n-t

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #6)


Response to panzerfaust (Reply #127)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:37 AM

134. Some deranged moron hacked your account and wrote this:

As I have said before, the only discernible difference between Bu$h and Obama is that at least Bu$h had the courage of his convictions, whilst Obama has neither conviction nor courage.


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Response to panzerfaust (Reply #127)


Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:48 PM

15. Russia likes this, because an international agreement strengthens and affirms Assad...

...as Syria's leader, moderates him, and elevates him in a three-way-deal to the level of Putin and Obama. That's not really desirable for anyone that wants to see him fall to the rebels - including the Obama Administration.

I'd have to agree this was probably a goof. It will be interesting to see what's done with it.

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Response to cigsandcoffee (Reply #15)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:26 PM

95. An international agreement, this one in particular, strengthens everyone

There's no international plan to remove Assad, or to run the mess over there if he does go down. If he stays, and the chemical weapons are gone, he's still got no walk in the park ahead of him. But any time the international community can come together to see international law enforced by peaceful means, that's a big win for everyone.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #95)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:21 AM

137. And that is a good thing.

 

Diplomacy over war. What a concept, huh? We should do that more often, if for no other reason, it works.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:55 PM

20. The brilliant Vladimir Putin as arrived to save the day. He has got this. It is his plan.

Of course, if Vlad was really extra special brilliant, he might have thought of the idea of Assad giving up his chemical weapons rather than waiting for Kerry to do it.

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Response to pampango (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:59 PM

26. +1 as his client state, it was arguable he should have

been on top of this earlier. Funny we see little condemnation of him, or his country, which veto'd the UN actions. You'd think he was just another sweet old guy:



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Response to pampango (Reply #20)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:37 PM

99. Too bad the U.S. didn't propose the surrender of the chemical

weapons as it's first resolution. Kerry 'stumbled' unto this and
I can't tell yet how pleased the admin is about it but since
it happened what else can the U.S. do but play along especially
since the strike plan has such little support internationally or
domestically.

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Response to snappyturtle (Reply #99)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:45 AM

122. "...I can't tell yet how pleased the admin is about it..."

And that is a huge difference between Obama and Bush/Cheney/McCain who would not be pleased at all at missing an opportunity to bomb/invade in order to "send a message".

It would have been interesting to see the reaction if, on the day after the chemical attack, Kerry had proposed that Syria give up its chemical weapons to avoid retaliation. (Or, I suppose, Lavrov could have taken the initiative as foreign minister of Assad's main backer.) It's impossible to rewrite history, but it is far from certain that this option would have been as enticing prior to all the threats and military posturing which have occurred since.

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Response to pampango (Reply #122)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:52 AM

123. I think your proposal would have been quite interesting.

It might have worked, telling Syria to turn over all chemical
weapons AND gone ahead with the build up. After all, a
country would have to be brain dead to think the U.S. would
not use its big stick when it wants to.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:55 PM

21. Two things:

The State Department later sought to clarify Kerry’s comment as a “rhetorical argument,” and one U.S. official called it a “major goof,” adding that America’s top diplomat “clearly went off script.”

“There is no one in the administration who is taking this Syria proposal seriously,” the official said.

...1) The State Department said the part about Assad not doing it was rhetorical, not the condition for avoiding a strike. That interpretation is just silly. Why would the admistration strike if Assad actually agrees to turn over the weapons to have them destroyed?

2) The second statement is clearly wrong.

Obama Puts Syria Strike On Pause As Possible Diplomatic Solution Emerges
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023632691

Yes, Obama got this.

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Response to ProSense (Reply #21)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:16 PM

85. Hush......... that's not what they wanted to hear.

They only hear what fits into their agenda. Why wait let's just get on with the impeachment now! Grayson for President he can pick Rand Paul as his running mate, LOL!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:56 PM

22. Why is it so upsetting to see Democrats

who think he might have handled it well? Why work so hard to argue with their conclusions about a Democratic President?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 07:57 PM

25. You're Cute in Your Impotent Rageyish Sort of Way, but I'm Gonna Just Laugh So

Hard at you when there's a diplomatic solution and Obama looks brilliant, and you keep on raging impotently away!

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Response to Skraxx (Reply #25)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:08 PM

38. Is this all really

about how Obama looks?

Sheesh!

Go tell that to the Syrian civilians who are dealing with the fear of Assad, the rebels and now bombing by the US. Sure, this is all about Obama.

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Response to Madam Mossfern (Reply #38)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:29 PM

51. Maybe to you

If his result avoids military intervention and neutralizes CW capability its a win. Apparently that sticks on some peoples craw, I find that amusing! Good times!

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Response to Skraxx (Reply #51)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:37 PM

58. It doesn't stick in my craw

Are you sure it's his result, or a result of several factors?

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Response to Madam Mossfern (Reply #58)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 07:02 AM

124. Of course it is the result of several factors, however,

we do have in office a President who is willing to entertain other ideas and to act on them. Let's not get carried away by a need to see failure.

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Response to Skraxx (Reply #25)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:23 PM

48. +1...nt

Sid

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:02 PM

28. Doesn't John Kerry work for OBama ?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:02 PM

29. No No No...?

I say Yes Yes Yes!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #29)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:13 PM

41. silly fool.. this is his ruse to destroy social security while no one is looking!1!!11



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Response to dionysus (Reply #41)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:18 PM

45. Oooooh Noooooes!



dionysus~

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Response to dionysus (Reply #41)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:06 PM

73. Social Serurity????

I thought it was part of the plan to take jobs away???



ADD) Oh no, it was part of making it where people can't get healthcare!!


This list can go on forever!! I think I have heard about half of what is out there!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #29)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:03 PM

70. +1 !!!!!!!

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #70)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:13 PM

76. LFR!

Hi!

Are you home now? Safe? Happy?

sheshe~

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #76)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:17 PM

86. Not yet.

Just waiting for Oct. 5th.

It will be soon. I am so dreaming about it!

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #86)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:20 PM

88. LFR~



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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #88)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:26 PM

94. Thank you!



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Response to Cha (Reply #150)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:35 PM

155. Oh he's got it!

That's what makes some people so crazy, Cha~

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:07 PM

36. Wesley Clark disagrees

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:10 PM

39. Or maybe the official doesn't know as much as s/he thinks s/he knows.

Or maybe Kerry's not afraid to look like he's made a mistake if it moves things in the right direction.

But we'd always rather believe some anonymous "official" rather than think Obama/Kerry/Clinton might have done something right. Right?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #39)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:57 PM

101. Is it possible that...

...this was orchestrated by Obama and Kerry as a potential way out?

I say this because it's obvious that Syria is not Obama's project. This has PNAC/neocon fingerprints all over it. Obama saw the overwhelming outrage against war with Syria, and what did he do? He asked for a vote. I think he wanted an out--or at least he refused to solely carry that rancid bucket of neocon water all by himself.

Possibly, because the war backlash soared, they developed their own "out clause". Notice the State Department spokesperson speaks for Kerry and says Kerry's statement was wrong or rhetorical, or whatever? That's the neocons jumping in and defining that moment and saying, "Oh hell no!"

I know this...The PNAC/neocon brigade has had their sights on Syria for decades. Their plan laid out the countries they would target: Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon. They want total domination of the region. No way in hell were we just staying long enough to lob a couple of cruise missiles, then head on home. Whatever those bastards concocted, would have put us there indefinitely--and it would be an explosive, paradigm-shifting scenario.

Maybe Kerry and Obama just said, "F this."

And I wouldn't put it past Putin to cooperate. He's sided with Syria against the US, but more importantly, Putin has sided with Iran over Israel. Iran has said that if the US bombs Syria, it will retaliate and bomb Israel. What do you want to bet that those horrible consequences would play out if the US bombs Syria??? That chain of events would spark events that would embroil our nation into war against Syria, Iran and their allies--including Russia.

I doubt Putin wants that garbage. We're talking the potential for nuclear weapons. Maybe Putin helped us play our way out if this?

The neocons think that we are stupid. They figured that we'd be sheep, as Obama led us into war. They probably figured that some of Obama's supporters would cheerleader us into Syria, just as the Bush supporters put on partisan blinders and justified Junior's every war crime.

Sorry, no. We're not that dumb.

I'm not saying that I have this right, but I know that Syria is part of the neocon game. Obama is not a neocon. I see signs of Obama backing out. We know our government lies to us, keeps the truth from us, so a scenario like this is entirely possible.

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Response to CoffeeCat (Reply #101)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:00 PM

102. Or maybe

Obama was engaged in a high level game of chicken and the other side backed off. Who knows?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:12 PM

40. It wasn't the plan, obviously.

If it was, Kerry wouldn't have unveiled it during the Q/A session of a news conference.

But it may be a serendipitous way of getting ourselves out of this box we put ourselves into. (Not that I think Syria has any intention of actually giving up its chemical weapons.)

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Response to BlueCheese (Reply #40)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:18 PM

44. Kerry didn't get the WH memo...

...that it isn't about chemical weapons.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:15 PM

42. But, but...this isn't about the President, right?

How dare he come away not looking like a desperate, despotic, warmongering failure!

And here the PR line is that it's about not getting into another war. I think some people are more invested in wanting to see the President fail at whatever he attempts.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:15 PM

43. Somebody must have flashed the emergency Bat Signal down in the bog.

The Damage Control teams are manning the catapults.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #43)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:19 PM

46. I'm rotflmao they're spinning Kerry going off-script...

...as a huge victory for Obama.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #46)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:21 PM

47. Maybe Kerry said exactly what he intended to say and the official is the one

who doesn't know what he's talking about.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #46)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:23 PM

49. It really is nuts.

They are working so HARD trying to make that bull shit fly.
You almost gotta feel sorry for them.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #49)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:30 PM

53. They are like Palin supporters.

Not the sharpest tools in the shed.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #53)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:52 PM

62. I know I should avert my eyes from the embarrassing spectacle,

....but I can't.

Its like one of those phony Reality Shows where people upload videos of the dumbest things they have ever done,
and are PROUD when their stunt makes it to the Top 10.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #62)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 09:07 PM

64. Yes, its a trainwreck you have to watch.

Or else you miss moments of epic stupidity like posting a road map of Moscow and claiming it was the flight-path of Morales' plane across Europe. And then they doubled down when the mistake was pointed out to them. I never laughed so hard in my life.

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #53)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:55 AM

116. You mean the Palin that Alan Grayson agrees with on Syria?

Yeah, OK.

Bashing other DUers? Do you have anything better to offer?

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #46)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:31 PM

55. It's almost as funny as people who assume that Kerry would go

'off-script' on the single most important and predictable question he was going to get asked, that he would have not prepared an answer to that question, and that these developments happening in rapid succession is just Putin, Kerry, and Assad winging it without consulting one another.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #55)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:44 PM

60. Assume? The WH said Kerry went off-script.

Thats assuming the WH isnt lying again...

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #60)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:58 PM

63. So now you decide to believe everything they

say?

Obama's not as dumb as you imagine him to be, and you're not nearly as smart as you fancy yourself.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #55)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 09:58 PM

67. Kerry has been flailing about like tattered laundry in the storm.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #67)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 09:59 PM

68. So this is all dumb luck? nt

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #68)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:05 PM

72. Maybe. Nothing has been signed, no weapons moved.

Putin jumped on an off-hand quote. Assad jumped too. It is in their benefit to do so, whether they have any intention of actually following through. Even if they don't, it gives Assad another day without being bombed.

It is in Obama's interest to delay the debate. He is bleeding support at home, the Senate is delaying the vote. He is pressing the case on the news and in a prime time address.

My gut opinion is that this was an opportunistic move by all involved and none of them are acting in good faith. Assad isn't going to turn over the weapons in a away that will satisfy the US. The US holds the excuse of non-compliance in their back pocket to use at the opportune time. Then, Obama can either try again with Congress, or strike out of an immediacy.

This isn't near over.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #72)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:11 PM

75. So, your take is that there is no diplomatic

solution to Assad's chemical weapons then.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #75)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:14 PM

79. I don't know if there is or not. This could be the best chance.

I know that there is not a military solution, though.

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Response to morningfog (Reply #72)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:15 PM

82. hahahahahahaahaahahahahaha...

Seriously? Your "gut" has been sooooo dependable lately right?

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Response to HooptieWagon (Reply #46)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:18 PM

106. Kerry strategically revealed the Obama master plan in a carefully flubbed interview question!

Last edited Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:49 AM - Edit history (1)

It's a shame that all this high-energy spinning can't be harnessed... could solve the energy crisis.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #43)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:30 PM

52. Y'all really need to get over your creepy obsession with the BOG.

Seriously, it's unhealthy.

You haven't succeeded in running all the Obama supporters off the site. You likely will not succeed.

Acting like the presence of Obama supporters in GD is some kind of alien invasion is not a rational thing to do.

Signed, someone who never posts in the BOG.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #52)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:16 PM

84. "Signed, someone who never posts in the BOG."

Thank you for that geek~ from a member of the BOG.

shshse2~

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #52)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:17 PM

87. +1000 ^^^ what he said.

I stood my ground and took them all on...and like you...I never post at the BOG either....

I refused to just hand them the keys...

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #52)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:26 PM

96. No kidding

Hello, stalker alert!

That was also coming from one of the people who loves to go into the group and shit stir. I've posted in that group maybe three times this year and possibly a few times before that, but I do read some of the stuff from time to time.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #96)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:21 PM

149. Actually, I have never posted to The Bog,

...but don't let TRUTH & Reality stop you from just making stuff up.

I'm perfectly happy that you have a place to go
and do whatever it is you all do down there in the Echo Chamber.

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #52)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:59 AM

119. +1000

I guess pent-up anger has to go SOMEWHERE, but it's unbecoming, not to mention it doesn't do a damned thing about solving any problem.

Get Your Schoolyard Bully On!

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Response to geek tragedy (Reply #52)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 01:51 PM

146. + a million. And I'm sure it's a coincidence that so many so terrified by the BOG tend to be

the fringiest of the fringe and the looniest of the loons here. And whose candidates couldn't muster 1 zillionth the support that the president gets from the TRUE Dem base.

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #43)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:31 PM

56. No kidding

It's hilarious

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #43)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:14 PM

81. They're so obnoxious

Some posters are acting like utter children. It's like Bieber fans. Everyone's a "hater" and every post a petulant mix of bragging, maniacal defensiveness and playground taunting. Obama would be SO proud I'm sure.

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Response to Union Scribe (Reply #81)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:25 PM

109. That comment wasn't very mature. n/t

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #43)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 06:29 AM

121. And are firing talking points that directly contradict the last ones.

Assad must go! Murdered a hundred thousand! If we don't strike future dictators will use chemical weapons! Why don't you care about the (thousands/tens of thousands/millions/billions) Assad has killed!?

Obama totally didn't want to strike all along! This was just a ruse to get him to give up the weapons! All that matters is securing those specific weapons! The people Assad has killed don't matter, only the weapons do!

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #43)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:15 AM

128. In response to the Rat Signal going out to OET...

How are things over there? Pretty slow, I guess?

Sid

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #43)


Response to bvar22 (Reply #43)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 04:55 PM

148. +10000000

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:35 PM

57. Probably not for you

But this was pretty much well planned and well handled by Kerry-- he probably knew Assad and Russia were talking --- here it is

"When asked by a reporter in London whether there was anything Assad's government could do or offer to stop a military strike, Kerry answered:

"Sure, he could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week - turn it over, all of it without delay and allow the full and total accounting (of it), but he isn't about to do it and it can't be done."

http://news.yahoo.com/kerry-syrian-handover-chemical-arms-could-prevent-attack-093723966.html

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 08:48 PM

61. Prejudice.

Definition: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

If your starting position is that Obama is imperialistic warmonger itching to bomb Syria into the stone age, then you will likely find evidence to support your position.

Conversely, if your position is that Obama is a pacifist dove who has been backed into a corner when all options have been exhausted, you will likely find evidence to support that as well.

Somewhere in between, there is reality.

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Response to Liberal Veteran (Reply #61)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 09:48 PM

66. +100000

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Response to Liberal Veteran (Reply #61)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:22 PM

89. Perfect. n/t

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Response to Liberal Veteran (Reply #61)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:25 PM

93. That makes some semblance of sense so why bring it up on an anti Obama post. LOL!

All they want here is the anti's the rest will be on ignore.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:13 PM

77. Obama has a chance to gracefully back away from making war on Syria.

Even if it were inadvertent, an opening to derail the war express has appeared. If he's smart, Obama will take this opportunity to back away from a hugely unpopular stance.

And the real upside is it could actually take those chemical weapons out of play.

This is war and peace. I don't much care about DU members sniping at each other.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #77)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:14 PM

80. Yeah, I'll lay off and hope he does the right thing here.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #77)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:22 PM

108. He's always had that chance, the UN.

But Russia was being reticent so what was Obama going to do?

Best to go down fighting than to go down meekly with your hands in the air. Obama falling on a congressional vote and taking it to the UN would've been better than attacking.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 10:27 PM

98. Obama just can not catch a break from the left or right.



I bet if the man came out against eating yellow snow some would come out in favor of it just to spite him.

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #98)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 02:54 AM

120. If you even hold a lottery ticket's hope of "catching a break" from the right then you have no

right to expect one from the left. You have seen the right of late, correct?
Essentially the only folks in the world to the right of them are into stonings. Trying to appease the wicked fuckers builds up substantial toxicity and stink not easily washed off.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Mon Sep 9, 2013, 11:20 PM

107. we'll see. ain't over till it's over.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:16 AM

129. The weird bitterness from some here over Obama possibly not

suffering a debilitating failure is pretty sad and freeperish.

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Response to sufrommich (Reply #129)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 03:59 PM

147. Yup +1

and it's so obvious.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:51 AM

131. Oh - you wacky guys!

One second Obama is an a complete dictatorial genius of the likes of Dr. Evil who wants war more than anything else on the planet, the next he is a bumbling-stumbling Gerald Ford wannabe.

I wish you all would get you hate-screeds a little more on the consistent side - I am just getting a tad bit embarrassed for all you knee-jerk haters at the moment. Its like you are all just starting to mail it in. Come on, just try a little harder will you? I know you can do better!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 08:56 AM

132. Yes, you can still hate him all you want.

This changes nothing.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:05 AM

136. EVERYONE on this thread seems to have forgotten that Obama has surrounded himself with Republican,

 

DLC and other Right of Center advisers, most beholden to the MIC. The bomb Syria fuckup is the result of their bad advice. Putin stepped in and saved their asses with a diplomatic solution, based on a Kerry misspeak. Possibly adverting WWIII.
At no time was the United States on the correct side of this - again. For those of us paying attention, the Administration's rhetoric for bombing Syria was being taken from the same playbook as the lies and bullshit in the run up to the Iraq invasion. Only this time there really were WMD. Only the yellow cake was missing.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 10:23 AM

138. Went off script in major ways.

And now I hear Kerry trying to still pressure the Senate.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 12:00 PM

142. The OP of this post reminds me of a "cooler"

You know, the person who is always ready to throw cold water on an inspired idea or pooh pooh an ideal and say it can't be done.

They actually use "coolers" in large gambling casinos. If a person gets on a large winning streak they will send a "cooler" in to be disruptive and negative to bring an end to the winning streak.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:08 PM

152. He's got this!

Don't trip.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Tue Sep 10, 2013, 09:19 PM

154. Pffffffth.

Sorry, wrong number.


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