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Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:29 PM

 

Kristin Beck: 的知 fighting for equality, dignity and respect...Manning is doing the opposite"

...Kristin Beck is the former Christopher Beck, a U.S. Navy Seal Team 6 member who came out as transgender in 2011 and wrote a book, 展arrior Princess, about the experience. Since then, she has become an advocate for equality in gender identity issues. When she learned that WikiLeaker Manning had also come out as transgender, she was furious.

的知 fighting for equality, dignity and respect, Beck said. 典his person, Manning, is doing the opposite. Beck痴 fear is that because of Manning痴 history, and the circumstances surrounding Manning痴 statement, 填niformed people are going to link gender identity to emotional stability, intellectual capacity and ego....

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/08/23/world/transgender-community-unsure-whether-mannings-move-will-be-blessing-or-curse/#.UhgLF53D_IU

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Reply Kristin Beck: 的知 fighting for equality, dignity and respect...Manning is doing the opposite" (Original post)
michigandem58 Aug 2013 OP
Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #1
winter is coming Aug 2013 #2
Starry Messenger Aug 2013 #5
burnodo Aug 2013 #9
maddezmom Aug 2013 #3
4Q2u2 Aug 2013 #4
Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #6
dkf Aug 2013 #7
LaydeeBug Aug 2013 #13
MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #8
dkf Aug 2013 #10
pnwmom Aug 2013 #14
Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #25
JimDandy Aug 2013 #27
Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #30
JimDandy Aug 2013 #32
MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #16
dkf Aug 2013 #22
Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #26
Cha Aug 2013 #11
JI7 Aug 2013 #12
morningfog Aug 2013 #15
michigandem58 Aug 2013 #23
morningfog Aug 2013 #24
Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #28
Number23 Aug 2013 #17
arely staircase Aug 2013 #29
Jake2413 Aug 2013 #18
99Forever Aug 2013 #19
La Lioness Priyanka Aug 2013 #20
Electric Monk Aug 2013 #21
Octafish Aug 2013 #31

Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:31 PM

1. What a load of crap...

Kristin should be ashamed of herself for saying this.

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:32 PM

2. +1. n/t

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:35 PM

5. +1

 

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Response to Cooley Hurd (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:36 PM

9. +1 #3

 

kick

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:34 PM

3. She is entitled to her opinion

But I find it sad she couldn't be a bit more supportive.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:35 PM

4. Why?

Is she not entitled to her opinion if it does not match yours. I would say that out of anyone Kristin would be one of the Worlds foremost experts.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:35 PM

6. By brown nosing the bosses?

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:36 PM

7. In fairness, speaking of transgender status when pleading for leniency did seem suspect to me.

 

I wonder why this wasn't known ages ago or why it couldn't have waited.

But I absolutely thank Chelsea Manning for what her conscience told her to do.

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Response to dkf (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:03 PM

13. Thank you for this, for they are my sentiments exactly.

I think she'll get out because of the medical clemency thing, but part of me agrees with Ms. Beck

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:36 PM

8. Too bad. IMO Chelsea Manning has shown immeaursable courage. It's not like plenty of straight

 

"uniformed people" aren't emotionally unstable, incredibly stupid, and full of themselves.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:42 PM

10. Yes but why does transgender = emotionally unstable?

 

That's the point the defense was trying to make it seemed to me.

I was offended at that assumption.

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Response to dkf (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:55 PM

14. I can see why other transgender people in the military

aren't thrilled with that defense and don't view her as a hero.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #14)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 10:15 AM

25. Beck was never out for one moment in the miltary, and no one is out as transgender in the military.

Beck served for 20 years, had two marriages to two different women and after retirement finally spoke a word of truth to herself and to others. While her eventual courage is to be commended, the eventual nature of that courage does involve decades of dishonesty. Manning spoke her truth while still under the military rules. Beck waited for full benefits, then went on AC 360.
So it needs to be clearly stated that any and every person in the military who is trans is currently not open about it. This makes each of them less honest than Manning, no matter how you slice it, their opinions come from and are designed to support their furtive and chosen existence in the military.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #25)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 10:39 AM

27. Under DADT, wouldn't Beck have been put out of the military?

Or was transgender treated differently than homosexuality under DADT?

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Response to JimDandy (Reply #27)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 10:58 AM

30. Transgender people are not protected by DADT repeal and are still subject to discharge.

That's sort of my point. Beck protected Beck until Beck was retired and then came out from safe place. Many older people who spend decades in closets have yelled at younger, braver people for coming out sooner and taking the consequences. DADT stood until people started coming out anyway. What if Beck had stood up while in service as gay men and women did? Perhaps she might have made change. But she delayed until she had cover for herself. That's her choice. But it will not be everyone's choice no matter how much Beck wants them to be like Beck.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #30)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 11:00 AM

32. Very interesting. Good points.

Thanks.

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Response to dkf (Reply #10)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:11 PM

16. My guess is that the defense

 

was using whatever it thought might fly. Being a member of our society is stressful enough even when you are a member of what is considered the "norm"; there are so many ways people find to exclude and belittle you. But being transgendered, not feeling like your soul belongs in the body housing it? Can't even imagine how that must fuck with you -- not because there is anything intrinsically wrong with you, but because there is so much pressure from society to behave a certain way regardless of your inner self. Maybe the defense was trying to build sympathy for that aspect.

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Response to MotherPetrie (Reply #16)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:40 PM

22. You are right...

 

I am being too harsh...

What she has been through is too much to ask.

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Response to dkf (Reply #10)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 10:29 AM

26. Uh, living under irrationally suppressive rules and regulations that require you to lie about your

essential self creates emotional stress. It is not your essence that is to blame, it is the culture of bigotry and lies that is to blame. Being forced to lie makes emotional problems, be that lie about one's sexuality, parentage, religion or anything else.
You see it as blaming the person who is say oppressed I see that defense as damning the military culture as sick, twisted and based on lies and closets for all.
So. In some times of history, Jewish people pretended not to be Jewish to avoid death and prison. If I said that having to hide their faith caused them undue stress would that be saying Jewish = Stressed or would that be saying Oppressed = Stressed.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:45 PM

11. Rec for this from your link..

的知 a dad, said Jay Brown, who is transgender and the director of foundation program strategies at the Human Rights Campaign. And as a parent, Brown said, he has learned 鍍here are a lot of teachable moments that aren稚 exactly the moments I would first choose to be educating on.

But more importantly, he said, 迭egardless of how she came to our attention, this is a moment to help us understand the transgender experience.

Manning is introducing the general public to issues that rarely attain mainstream attention, such as the correct pronouns to use for a pre-operative transgender individual.

What I first saw was her statement requesting that the public now refer to Manning as the female 舛helsea, said Brown. He explained that his primary interest is whether Manning is afforded proper dignity in care in prison."


I disagree with how Chelsea Manning leaked but I don't want to denigrate her in any way for her struggles in her new life.

She is one brave woman.



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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:49 PM

12. these are 2 different issues, one can still oppose bigotry against someone

for things regardless of whether you like or support that person.

how we can dislike disagree with palin but that doesn't mean it's ok to use bigoted sexist terms against her.

one can disagree with what chelsea did but still oppose bigotry against her for being transgender.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 10:59 PM

15. Didn't you already post this smear?

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Response to morningfog (Reply #15)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 08:07 AM

23. How about respecting her opinion? n/t

 

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Response to michigandem58 (Reply #23)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 09:33 AM

24. I swear I thought you already posted this smear.

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Response to michigandem58 (Reply #23)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 10:40 AM

28. I'd have more respect for Beck had she come out while in service rather than waiting 20 years to

'fight for equality and dignity'. She put up with a closeted life lacking in dignity and she took part in a culture that has no equality at all. She was part of the oppressing side, not on the side of GLBT people, she pretended to be straight and male, she married two different women as a man while in the military.
Her real life actions were an extended fight for secrecy and a tight closet door until it was safe for her to write a book and go on TV in her civilian life.
Not much hero sauce in that casserole.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:32 PM

17. Have never heard of Kristin Beck until now. This has been one hell of an informative weekend.

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:33 PM

18. What

This is crazy....

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)


Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:34 PM

20. the beloved and the disliked should both be afforded some basic respects/rights

such as the right to be referred to with the right pronouns. no one has to admire manning to respect her pronoun choices

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:36 PM

21. It's interesting how similar the words "uniformed" and "uninformed" are when written down. nt

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Response to michigandem58 (Original post)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 11:00 AM

31. Wrong argument, Beck. Manning is fighting for democracy.

You might remember it. Instead of a secret government running wars for profit, We the People do the deciding.

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