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DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » It is really, really easy...

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:22 PM

It is really, really easy. Here, try this.

Type along with me:

C

H

E

L

S

E

A

See? Not so hard at all.

And you know what? Using that name instead of Bradley doesn't change anything else. She is, to you, whatever you think she is. A hero, whistle blower, criminal, traitor, whateverthefuck. Using the feminine pronoun, and name of choice changes none of that.

On a more personal level for each and every one of us, using Chelsea and calling her her has absolutely no affect on you. Your gender identity is the same as it was. Your marriage is unchanged. Your paycheck is unchanged. Your car payment won't go up. Calling her Chelsea affects you . . . . Not At All.

If, on the other hand, you continue with Bradley and he, you're doing it to be an obstinate ass. Doing so says a lot about YOU.

Carry on . . . . .








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Reply It is really, really easy. Here, try this. (Original post)
Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 OP
William769 Aug 2013 #1
kardonb Aug 2013 #27
Dragonfli Aug 2013 #31
LineLineLineLineReply .
bunnies Aug 2013 #38
heaven05 Aug 2013 #55
bunnies Aug 2013 #37
Hong Kong Cavalier Aug 2013 #48
NuclearDem Aug 2013 #57
chervilant Aug 2013 #61
backscatter712 Aug 2013 #64
Posteritatis Aug 2013 #63
Ms. Toad Aug 2013 #2
shugah Aug 2013 #3
99Forever Aug 2013 #4
ChangeUp106 Aug 2013 #5
kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #34
KittyWampus Aug 2013 #6
William769 Aug 2013 #8
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #9
William769 Aug 2013 #10
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #11
William769 Aug 2013 #12
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #13
bunnies Aug 2013 #40
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #42
bunnies Aug 2013 #44
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #45
bunnies Aug 2013 #46
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #52
Luminous Animal Aug 2013 #15
Orsino Aug 2013 #54
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #7
Wilms Aug 2013 #14
Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #17
limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #16
truebluegreen Aug 2013 #49
mwooldri Aug 2013 #73
limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #75
pauliedangerously Aug 2013 #18
idwiyo Aug 2013 #19
bunnies Aug 2013 #41
idwiyo Aug 2013 #43
OnlinePoker Aug 2013 #56
idwiyo Aug 2013 #60
Posteritatis Aug 2013 #65
idwiyo Aug 2013 #68
handmade34 Aug 2013 #67
idwiyo Aug 2013 #69
backscatter712 Aug 2013 #66
ismnotwasm Aug 2013 #20
BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2013 #24
ismnotwasm Aug 2013 #26
BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2013 #35
Half-Century Man Aug 2013 #21
hrmjustin Aug 2013 #22
Silent3 Aug 2013 #23
BlancheSplanchnik Aug 2013 #25
Heidi Aug 2013 #28
tblue37 Aug 2013 #29
TDale313 Aug 2013 #30
Kablooie Aug 2013 #32
CBGLuthier Aug 2013 #33
Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #58
Little Star Aug 2013 #36
lupinella Aug 2013 #39
zipplewrath Aug 2013 #47
Solly Mack Aug 2013 #50
dhill926 Aug 2013 #51
ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #53
alfredo Aug 2013 #59
backscatter712 Aug 2013 #62
MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #70
underpants Aug 2013 #71
Neoma Aug 2013 #72
caseymoz Aug 2013 #74

Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:24 PM

1. Knocked it out of the ball park Stinky.

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Response to William769 (Reply #1)


Response to kardonb (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:08 AM

31. No one asked you to finance anything but the murder of innocents by a joking pilot.

Tell me was that your money well spent?

All she has asked you to do is to refer to her by name, but your hatred has made even that simple request impossible for you in your need to be vile towards someone different than you. I find you to be a loathsome person, a hairless ape with more skull than brains that is behaving just as one might expect such an unevolved creature to behave, congratulations, you have so much to be proud of.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #31)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:36 AM

38. .

Well said, Dragonfli. Well said.

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Response to Dragonfli (Reply #31)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 02:26 PM

55. +10000

I can agree with that assessment. I'm so sick of the hate based on petty and superficial reasons, usually justified by religion, in the haters mind.

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Response to kardonb (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:35 AM

37. Newsflash:

You cant "refuse" to finance shit. Stomp your feet and gnash your teeth and throw your little tantrum. But that doesnt change the fact that you have NO control over how the gov't spends our tax dollars.

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Response to kardonb (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:39 PM

48. Then don't pay your taxes. At. All.

I'm sure the IRS will come knocking on your door soon enough.

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Response to kardonb (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 03:14 PM

57. *she, *she, *her.

And that was just the immediate problem with that post.

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Response to kardonb (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:28 PM

61. Wow...

Aren't you just a peach?

Why are you even a member of this forum?

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Response to chervilant (Reply #61)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:36 PM

64. A good question. Why is he a member of this forum?

I hope that will be remedied shortly.

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Response to kardonb (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:35 PM

63. Oh boy, "I am the only taxpayer" posters. These topics are downright pavlovian. (nt)

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:25 PM

2. K&R

And thank you.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:27 PM

3. very good point

personal thoughts/opinions/beliefs rendered pointless by the simple "it is not about YOU."

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:28 PM

4. Undeniably true. n/t

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:30 PM

5. People are making too much of this

She wants to be Chelsea, fine. But don't expect people to immediately know she should be called as such. And definitely don't say they're against transgender rights if they call her Bradley.

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Response to ChangeUp106 (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 07:57 AM

34. Thank you for your comment. nt

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:30 PM

6. Yeah, and she's still transitioning. It's a process. Many of us just found out today… hours ago.

Maybe not everyone is up to speed.

But HEY you proved how tolerant and knowledgable you are.

Congratulations.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:36 PM

8. I guess some people don't like to be educated. nt

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Response to William769 (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:38 PM

9. And some people don't like to learn to swim

By being thrown in the pool.

But they are gonna learn aren't they

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:40 PM

10. Yes they are & they can either fight it or go with it.

Guess which one is the path of least resistance?

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Response to William769 (Reply #10)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:41 PM

11. I was still talking about swimming

And what you call education and what is obvious

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:42 PM

12. Interchangeable.

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Response to William769 (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:43 PM

13. Shrug

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #9)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:41 AM

40. Is it really that damn hard to say "she" instead of "he"?

Really? Theres a learning process for that?

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Response to bunnies (Reply #40)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:49 AM

42. That's not the point

No one responding to this thread (that I've read) has any trouble with pronouns

It's the tone and impatience that's my point and that of others. Not too mention that those who may still refer to her as him just may not be up on the latest news. Too call them bigots or homophobes or "obstinate ass" as a result is nearly as insensitive.

That's all

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #42)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:57 AM

44. Those are not the people the OP is talking about.

Of course, if someone is not up on the news, they cant be expected to know. But there are quite a few here (if not in this thread) who are going out of their way to make this a painstaking issue and/or an excuse to get their gay-hate on.

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Response to bunnies (Reply #44)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:08 PM

45. Yes, but I think it's both

Plus I don't think DU is necessarily a haven for the anti-gay Neanderthals

Maybe this a smoke-me-out post ay?

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #45)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:30 PM

46. There was a time when I would have disagreed...

about the anti-gay state of DU. These last few days have been a real eye-opener, sadly. There are very good examples of the posts I was talking about in this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023519261

Yeah. Theyre being smoked out. Just unfortunately not kicked out.

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Response to bunnies (Reply #46)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:14 PM

52. I've been reading that one

I just try to give the benefit of the doubt. I guess I've been here long enough that now I too look at post count first.

That said, I tried to ask an honest question about race and was accused of flame bait and being a troll.

As to your example. Is it more or less flame bait when it's a current event. Who knows. I agree with du veterans. At some point they out themselves.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #6)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:49 PM

15. So you have never once read a word about Breanna. You have

never once read an article that discussed Manning's court strategy around this issue ? Really?

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:35 PM

54. +1

With perhaps the best of intentions, these political directives stink too much of guys on the Internet mansplaining.

By the time Chelsea's biography is written, we might be entitled to opinions about her particular journey. Until then, I'm not on board with pretending that Bradley never existed.

Perhaps we might go easy on using her to expound particular gender theories? She's already a political puppet, folks.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:32 PM

7. Maybe you could give the world

A little time since we've known her as him for three years now.

I've only known for two days and I'm glued to this shit.

Now I need to go check my car payment

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Response to Boom Sound 416 (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:47 PM

14. Trust me, your car payment didn't go up.

LOL!

And it didn't go down, either.

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Response to Wilms (Reply #14)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:55 PM

17. Yeah, I'm good.

No change

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:53 PM

16. Cassius Clay => Muhammad Ali

It took people a while to adjust.

But here's an honest question. Just for the sake of accurate reporting, should people wait until there is a legal name change or something?

The news media and the government will continue calling saying "Bradley", since that is the legal name.

So don't we have to somewhat say "Bradley" to file petitions and discuss the news?

Swear I'm not trying to be dense. Manning is a huge hero for me, and I want to do it right and be respectful, but honestly don't have alot of personal experience with such things.

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #16)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:58 PM

49. She, and any other person, can call herself whatever she wants

with or without a legal name change (unless it is for fraudulent purposes).

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Response to limpyhobbler (Reply #16)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 08:46 PM

73. Some media outlets are calling her Private Manning, or something non-gender specific.

I'm with you on this one. It is confusing. I'll get my head around it. From my point of view, I don't think you're dense. Some people here are very sensitive when it comes to sexual and gender identity. I believe those people are blessed and are leading the way in a landscape where the media is itself having issues with Chelsea Manning reporting her new name.

For me, I find it difficult to talk about something that was referred to as one thing that overnight is declared to be referred to as something different - a possible example I offer is in the case of 134340 Pluto, previously referred to as a planet. Pluto is now a dwarf planet, but some people refuse to recognize this fact. I believe the same case is with US Army Pfc. Manning - we have people embracing her new identity, some people who refuse to recognize her identity, and a whole bunch of us in the middle confused, scratching our heads and saying "what?".





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Response to mwooldri (Reply #73)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:35 PM

75. It's Chelsea Manning.

I can tell by the other people's reaction how important it is, even though it's a new concept to me.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:02 AM

18. Good Point...

It felt strange at first...just found out this afternoon after all, but I totally get it.

I think people should be free to be whom they want to be without enduring ridicule from others. I'm reminded of a former co-worker who is a transgendered male. His gender was a bit ambiguous, but he sported a goatee which made it obvious how he wanted to be identified. I had many other co-workers, or maybe I should say troglodytes posing as co-workers, who thought it was funny to pretend to "not know what to call him/her." My typical response to that nonsense was on the order of, "Well dumb-ass, he's got a beard so what the fuck do you think?"

Peace out.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:02 AM

19. K&R Anyone who insists on addressing Chelsea as Brad or using male pronouns is a bigot.

Homophobic and transphobic bigot. It's that easy.

Totally agree with the rest of your post.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:44 AM

41. Apparently...

its a 'learning process' for some. They need an 'adjustment period'. It very difficult to adjust to saying she instead of he. Makes me wonder how some people have made it so long on this planet if they cant even handle excruciatingly simple things like this.

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Response to bunnies (Reply #41)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:50 AM

43. Maybe each and single one of them have male friends named Chelsea, as it's such a common male name..

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 03:10 PM

56. It depends on the context

When I'm refering to the court case, I will still refer to it as the Bradley Manning case because that was what she was known as through the trial process and this is what the majority of search results will bring up. If I'm speaking about her as a person and the gender issues that have now arisen because the media can't think of anything better to focus on (like the fact she is being sent to jail only for releasing the truth), I will refer to her as Chelsea.

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Response to OnlinePoker (Reply #56)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:14 PM

60. I honestly don't know what is and isn't right way in this specific situation.

As a default I will address Chelsea as Chelsea from now on, regardless what part of her life I am talking about.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #60)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:37 PM

65. I think the key in your previous post was "insists on"

This will probably be the first really high-profile exposure to transgender issues a lot of people are likely to have - even on DU - so there's going to be a lot of mental gears being stripped between the basic dissonance and the why-should-I-cares and so on.

If, past that, someone's making a conscious decision to toss around Bradleys and male pronouns, they're doing it to make a point, and they're saying more about themselves than they are about their target.

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Response to Posteritatis (Reply #65)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 06:43 PM

68. Thank you.

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Response to OnlinePoker (Reply #56)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 06:12 PM

67. Pvt Manning case...

should suffice if you need the distinction (shouldn't be necessary though) ...otherwise you are who the post is talking about

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Response to handmade34 (Reply #67)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 06:47 PM

69. Thank you. That does make sense. I will follow you advice when making reference to the case and case

only, though I will always use female pronouns and she is Chelsea to me otherwise.

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Response to idwiyo (Reply #19)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:39 PM

66. Exactly. School's over, the lessons have been taught.

The lesson can be said in four words. "Her name is Chelsea."

Anyone who's still calling Chelsea "Bradley" or using male pronouns is doing it to be a bigot and an asshole, and it's time to send those assholes to MIRT.

Zero tolerance for bigotry!

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:11 AM

20. I think of My friend, a lovely human being

And a M-F transgender. She doesn't post here, but she is politically active. She's a stanch liberal feminist, a Democratic voter and a personal hero to me.

She is also a decorated Vietnam combat veteran who knows first hand what bullshit war is and what the government does-or doesn't do to promote it or to hide the truth about it. She still does color guard and simply side steps awkward questions.

In her honor I would join the OP and ask that people be respectful of Chelsea Manning, to honor her determined gender, no matter what your views of her actions are. As Stinky says, it's not hard.

Since I watched my-not-famous-or-controversial friend go though hell to become the awesome, incredible strong woman she is today with her gender reassigment, I ask that Chelsea be given the same right to her own gender autonomy with respect that deserves.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #20)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:28 AM

24. your friend must be awesome.



Wish I could meet her!

I've been close to two people. One was a decorated Vietnam vet who has been an alcoholic since he served. The other was a gender dysmorphic woman.

Unfortunately for them, neither of them beat their personal demons.

Your friend sounds like a total inspiration!

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #24)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:49 AM

26. She beat that alcoholic demon as well

She was in battles famous to Vets (not me, I forget the names of them) and when we talk, the horror of it lingers. Her solace was in drugs and alcohol for a while. I wish everyone could meet her, one of those once in a lifetime human beings that graces your life.

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Response to ismnotwasm (Reply #26)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:31 AM

35. wow!

Just Wow!


=============


They were two love rships, she--a loonng time ago; he--more recent.

Thing is, I have a bad habit of falling in crazy love with potential. It takes more than potential to have a rship--and they were both on downward spirals.

If I ever get over the vet ( ), I won't get near a severely damaged person again!!

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:16 AM

21. I do see some potential for problems with Prison administration.

Generally not people who are concerned with the wants of prisoners. They seem more like the people who "urge" you into a pre-shaped mold of their choosing.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:20 AM

22. K&R!

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:21 AM

23. If someone has heard the news, and refuses to acknowledge Chelsea as Chelsea, sure.

But if someone won't make any allowance at all for some time for the news to spread and sink in, this sounds like a formula too many DUers might all-too-gleefully employ for making strident, inflexible snap judgements about other people posting on DU.

As if we don't already have enough of that obnoxious, posturing bullshit already.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #23)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:29 AM

25. very true,

Very true. Sad to say.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:25 AM

28. Nailed it.

Thank you!

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:44 AM

29. +1. KnR. nt

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 02:39 AM

30. Abso-fuckin'- lutely.

Very well put.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)


Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 07:55 AM

33. And if for some reason you have to do the odious non-pronoun

s/he

Then just go the fuck away and never come back again and yes some ass with more than a few posts put that nauseating shit up yesterday and all the bullshit excuses in the world will not cover that noise.


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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #33)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 03:22 PM

58. I'd like to second that one.

It's a slur with a forward slash.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:32 AM

36. Bingo! k&r

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:37 AM

39. k&R n/t

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:38 PM

47. Actually there's another point of view

When discussing the actions of the member of the military that committted the acts, one refers to them by their "military" name. When discussing the person currently pursuing gender modification, they use the current name. One can avoid it all by merely saying "Manning", or Cpl. Manning.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:01 PM

50. K&R

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:09 PM

51. fantastic post......

the K & R......

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 01:21 PM

53. Thank you for this OP. nt

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 03:51 PM

59. In honor of Clinton's daughter.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:33 PM

62. Exactly! No excuses. Her name is Chelsea.

It's not that hard.

...and I'm not buying the "I need to get used to it. I still need to be educated." The trolls have already been educated, and refuse to accept the teaching.

They're just being contradictory to be assholes.

Thus I've got a hair trigger on the alert button.

Zero tolerance for bigotry on DU.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 07:53 PM

70. K&R

 

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 07:58 PM

71. That is some goooood Stinky

well done

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 08:37 PM

72. *snort*

I have to admit. I didn't know how to spell Chelsea before all this.

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Response to Stinky The Clown (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 09:08 PM

74. No, I did it cause I screwed up.


Takes a few posts to turn the habit, but I'll get it right. Everyone, have a little patience till then. I mean no insult to Chelsea Manning or her gender.

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