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Thu Aug 22, 2013, 04:54 PM

 

People Who Got Shorter Sentences Than Chelsea Manning: Spies Selling Secrets To Russians etc...

techdirt ‏@techdirt

People Who Got Shorter Sentences Than Bradley Manning: Spies Selling Secrets To Russians & Active Terrorists
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130821/18434224275/people-who-got-shorter-sentences-than-bradley-manning-spies-selling-secrets-to-russians-active-terrorists.shtml


Take, for example, the case of David Henry Barnett, a CIA agent who directly sold secrets to the Russians, including but not limited to outing around 30 active CIA agents to the KGB. Oh, and at the urging of the KGB, he also tried to get a job on Capitol Hill in order to get access to more secrets. He was eventually caught and charged with espionage in 1980... and received an 18 year sentence. Got that? Directly sell the identity of CIA agents to the KGB and you get about half the time that Manning got, not for revealing the identity of any intelligence agents, but basically for embarrassing the State Department and the military. That doesn't seem right.

Okay. And how about people, including Americans, who actively tried to hurt America? Remember, Manning made it quite clear his goal was to help America. But that's not true for these five people who joined the Taliban or teamed up with terrorists working on plans to attack America. Those people actively wanted to harm America. And they got shorter sentences.

David Hicks: An Australian national who was captured fighting alongside the Taliban and sent to Guantanamo Bay prison in 2002, Hicks plead guilty to material support for terrorism in a Gitmo military commission in 2007 and was sentenced to seven years confinement. That sentence was reduced to nine months given time already served.

John Walker Lindh: Lindh was convicted of a slew of terrorism and conspiracy charges in 2003 for fighting with the Taliban against the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. He was sentenced to 20 years in prison.


(More at the link.)

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply People Who Got Shorter Sentences Than Chelsea Manning: Spies Selling Secrets To Russians etc... (Original post)
Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 OP
Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #1
gopiscrap Aug 2013 #19
Laelth Aug 2013 #2
Spider Jerusalem Aug 2013 #3
Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #4
backscatter712 Aug 2013 #9
Just Saying Aug 2013 #27
hobbit709 Aug 2013 #13
YOHABLO Aug 2013 #25
NaturalHigh Aug 2013 #5
KoKo Aug 2013 #30
NaturalHigh Aug 2013 #34
KoKo Aug 2013 #35
zipplewrath Aug 2013 #6
Catherina Aug 2013 #7
burnodo Aug 2013 #16
KoKo Aug 2013 #31
JoeyT Aug 2013 #8
Scuba Aug 2013 #11
struggle4progress Aug 2013 #10
myrna minx Aug 2013 #12
hobbit709 Aug 2013 #14
KamaAina Aug 2013 #15
Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #21
LineReply ^
Wilms Aug 2013 #17
FairWinds Aug 2013 #18
KoKo Aug 2013 #32
classof56 Aug 2013 #20
charlives Aug 2013 #22
Octafish Aug 2013 #23
blkmusclmachine Aug 2013 #24
YOHABLO Aug 2013 #26
napoleon_in_rags Aug 2013 #28
toby jo Aug 2013 #29
Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #33

Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 04:58 PM

1. Can there be any doubt now that the Manning trial was simply our

version of a "show trial"?

The sentence was insanely unfair and this post proves it!

Good post and off to the Greatest with it!

Cheers!

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Response to Vinnie From Indy (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:56 AM

19. I fully agree with you

and that is why we need to keep the heat and spotlight on this issue!

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:00 PM

2. k&r for the truth, however depressing it may be. n/t

-Laelth

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:12 PM

3. How many of those were serving members of the armed forces subject to the UCMJ?

Apparently, none of them. Military and civilian justice are not the same thing; in the case of a serving member of the armed forces convicted of espionage, the sentence is in part exemplary, pour encourager les autres. Discouraging the wilful disobedience of orders and disclosure of classified information by showing what happens to those who do is in the interests of military discipline.

It would be a fairer comparison to look at members of the armed forces convicted by court-martial of espionage and compare their sentences with Manning's.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:17 PM

4. Good point, and a good reason to stay out of the armed services! n/t

 

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 06:19 PM

9. The people responsible for the abuses at Abu Ghraib got shorter sentences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse

The United States Department of Defense removed seventeen soldiers and officers from duty, and eleven soldiers were charged with dereliction of duty, maltreatment, aggravated assault and battery. Between May 2004 and March 2006, eleven soldiers were convicted in courts-martial, sentenced to military prison, and dishonorably discharged from service. Two soldiers, Specialist Charles Graner, and his former fiancée, Specialist Lynndie England, were sentenced to ten years and three years in prison, respectively, in trials ending on January 14, 2005 and September 26, 2005. The commanding officer of all Iraq detention facilities, Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, was reprimanded for dereliction of duty and demoted to the rank of Colonel on May 5, 2005. Col. Karpinski has denied knowledge of the abuses, claiming that the interrogations were authorized by her superiors and performed by subcontractors, and that she was not allowed entry into the interrogation rooms.

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Response to backscatter712 (Reply #9)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 09:44 PM

27. The people actually responsible for Abu Ghraib were never tried at all. N/T

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:42 PM

13. As we called it in my day-The Uniform Code Of Marsupial Justice

Proven once again by this.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #3)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 09:29 PM

25. Let's see, we have William Calley .. I won't go into it but you can read it yourself

William Laws Calley (William Laws Calley, Jr.) (born June 8, 1943) is a convicted American war criminal and a former U.S. Army officer found guilty of murder for his role in the My Lai Massacre on March 16, 1968, during the Vietnam War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Calley

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:28 PM

5. Jonathan Pollard was sentenced to life without parole.

Manning only got 35 years. In my opinion, Manning got a fairly light sentence considering the charges of which he was convicted.

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Response to NaturalHigh (Reply #5)

Sun Aug 25, 2013, 11:19 AM

30. Manning didn't pass secrets to the enemy for profit, though.

That's a huge difference.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #30)

Sun Aug 25, 2013, 12:56 PM

34. He released over 700,000 documents...

knowing that many would end up in the hands of the enemy. His motivations aren't particularly important to me. He signed a non-disclosure agreement, and he (like anyone who graduated from basic training) was well-educated about the consequences of disclosing classified information.

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Response to NaturalHigh (Reply #34)

Sun Aug 25, 2013, 01:08 PM

35. He didn't "consort" to spy on us for another country or take money." eom.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:39 PM

6. Most get life

Most people of this type get life. Of course that can come with an opportunity for parole. Manning may be out in 9 years or so, because of time already served. John Walker is scheduled to get out after 30.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 05:48 PM

7. The Marine Haditha murderers.

You can massacre 24 innocent Iraqis, including women, children, a baby and a man in a wheelchair and walk away scot-free.

On November 19, 2005, US Marines from Kilo Company, Third Battalion, First Marine Division killed 24 unarmed civilians in Haditha, Iraq, execution-style, in a three to five hour rampage. One victim was a 76-year-old amputee in a wheelchair holding a Koran. A mother and child bent over as if in prayer were also among the fallen. “I pretended that I was dead when my brother’s body fell on me and he was bleeding like a faucet,” said Safa Younis Salim, a 13-year-old girl who survived by faking her death. Other victims included six children ranging in age from 1 to 14. Citing doctors at Haditha’s hospital, The Washington Post reported, “Most of the shots … were fired at such close range that they went through the bodies of the family members and plowed into walls or the floor.”

...

(There) were blatant attempts to cover up the atrocity, disguised as “collateral damage.” Congressman John Murtha, a former Marine, was briefed on the Haditha investigation by Marine Corps Commandant Michael Hagee. Murtha said, “The reports I have from the highest level: No firing at all. No interaction. No military action at all in this particular incident. It was an explosive device, which killed a Marine. From then on, it was purely shooting people.” Marine Corps officials told Murtha that troops shot a woman “in cold blood” as she was bending over her child begging for mercy. Women and children were in their nightclothes when they were killed.

After the massacre, Briones was ordered to take photographs of the victims and help carry their bodies out of their homes. He is still haunted by what he had to do that day. Briones picked up a young girl who was shot in the head. “I held her out like this,” he said, extending his arms, “but her head was bobbing up and down and the insides fell on my legs.” “I used to be one of those Marines who said that post-traumatic stress is a bunch of bull,” said Briones, who has gotten into serious trouble since he returned home. “But all this stuff that keeps going through my head is eating me up. I need immediate help.”

Murtha told ABC there was “no question” the US military tried to “cover up” the Haditha incident, which Murtha called “worse than Abu Ghraib.” His high-level briefings indicated to him that the cover-up went “right up the chain of command.”

...

The 24 Haditha victims are buried in a cemetery called Martyrs’ Graveyard. Graffiti on the deserted house of one of the families reads, “Democracy assassinated the family that was here.”

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/01/31/the-haditha-massacre/

The US Press wouldn't even publish the pictures AFP took, they were that bad.

All charges dismissed and 1 acquitted. BUT MANNING IS THE ONE IN JAIL!

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Response to Catherina (Reply #7)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:48 PM

16. But they were Amur-kens! Fighting for our raht...

 

to be ignorant of our own government, unless they wanna take are guns!

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Response to Catherina (Reply #7)

Sun Aug 25, 2013, 11:24 AM

31. Recommend....that was horrendous...and it should have gotten attention and

follow up outrage. But, the Media/MIC and the People only cared about "9/11" and used that excuse to cover it up. We were lied to for that Invasion and the tragic costs will be with us and Iraq and Middle East for decades.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 06:09 PM

8. That's because it isn't about justice,

it's about making an example of him. Make sure any future whistleblowers know to keep their mouth shut and not embarrass the State Department.

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Response to JoeyT (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:29 PM

11. Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 06:22 PM

10. I personally wonder if Hicks and Lindh were simply victims of politics: they may both just have been

in the wrong place at the wrong time, in which case zero time might have been more appropriate for them

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:39 PM

12. This isn't about justice, this is about sending an intimidating and punitive message

to future whistle blowers. The Miranda outrage at Heathrow is to send the same message to journalists and their spouses/loves ones. It's chilling and disturbing. It's equally disturbing that there are those who cheer this abuse of power.

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Response to myrna minx (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:43 PM

14. It's even more chilling to see those that applaud it.

The other you can expect from TPTB.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 07:46 PM

15. Pssst... It's Chelsea Manning.

Look up Bradley Manning's Wiki page and see what happens.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #15)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:43 PM

21. Oh bloody hell. Cut-and-pasted the title and obviously wasn't thinking. Will edit.

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Thu Aug 22, 2013, 09:02 PM

17. ^

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 11:46 AM

18. Geez people,

how about Scooter Libby? He's a much better example.

Never served a day for being CONVICTED of involvement with leaking Top secret info.

The DC insiders leak more than Manning every week . .

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Response to FairWinds (Reply #18)

Sun Aug 25, 2013, 11:26 AM

32. Outed a CIA Agent..but, he's part of the "Ruling Class." n/t

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:36 PM

20. Then there were the Rosenbergs...

They were of course executed as "Enemies of Democracy". That was during the McCarthy Madness, rife with fear of evil Communism. I was old enough to remember that, and to this day I remain somewhat confused, but at the time it was generally accepted that as spies who sold our secrets to the Soviet Union, they got what was coming to them. Pretty sad, though.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:50 PM

22. Rebel "Prez" Jefferson Davis got 2 yrs...

...for terrorizing the country and killing 600,000

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 06:11 PM

23. The US Government has made out that Manning's was ''the Largest Loss of Secrets Evah''

I guess, if measured by how many corporations were using Uncle Sam to line their pockets.

If measured by what was lost, nothing of import, nothing that harmed U.S. security, nothing that harmed a human being -- other than the bastards who hide their loot offshore and the corporations that bribe Americans and foreign nationals to turn a buck any way possible.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 02:30 AM

24. POLICE STATES generally don't like law-abiding citizens or whistleblowers.

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Response to blkmusclmachine (Reply #24)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 09:34 PM

26. Couldn't agree more. You play by their twisted rules .. or you're squashed.

Even if it exposes the twisted antics of soldiers that kill innocent people for sport .. and their commanders are in full support of it and give the OK .. kill em.

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sat Aug 24, 2013, 09:46 PM

28. Its almost as if there is some kind of order...

You can almost picture, sometime back in the 60's, in South America a KGB agent and a CIA agent, both knowing what the other is, sitting down to drinks:

CIA: "You know, we don't have to live under the threat of nuclear destruction, what if we - I mean you and me, got along?"
KGB: "That true, most of people in Russia and the US live in blissful ignorance of the work we do. Should we treat each other as dogs?"
CIA: "Why do that, when we are the bravest and best in the world? What if people like us stopped being slaves of a public, in the US and Russia that doesn't care about us, and started standing up for ourselves?"
KGB: "Yes, what if people like us started to protect our own interests, and for once look at the stupid public as the 'other' in the situation?"

Long drinks.

CIA: "We'd stop forever the threat of nuclear war."
KGB: "But leaks to the public would become more severe in punishment than leaks to each other. Wouldn't the public notice?"
CIA: "Nah, they're all idiots".

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Aug 25, 2013, 11:06 AM

29. k&r

 

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Response to Fire Walk With Me (Original post)

Sun Aug 25, 2013, 11:35 AM

33. Lt. Calley served 1 day in Leavenworth and 3 years house arrest.

But, hell, he and the others at My Lai were only mass murderers not whistle blowers.

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