The Whistle Blower gets 35 years. When do we get to the War Criminals he exposed?

[sabrina 1]

It's interesting how even some Democrats find it necessary to point out that Manning 'stole' and therefore committed a crime, but never mention the crimes he witnessed and tried to stop.

Most of his leaks were from the Bush era. I always wonder why any Democrat would want to defend the Bush administration.

While the Whistle Blower goes to jail, the chief War Criminal is 'honored at the WH'.

The message has been sent to journalists and Whistle Blowers everywhere.

And to make sure there are no 'renegades' in the Independent Media, Diane Feinstein is proposing legislation to 'define' what a Journalist is.

This is a sad day for America.



Bradley Manning, hero!

Thanks for trying, Bradley. It was worse than any of us thought. Now we know.

[Zorra]

37. BTW...she's transgender. nt

[sabrina 1]

53. Yes, have you read the war logs where Manning talks about these issues?

It made me cry the first time I read that conversation. Very well worth reading if you have not.

[dothemath]

66. BTW .... what the hell does that have to do with this article?

EOM

[bvar22]

86. It has NOTHING to do with the article,

....but these bitter, nasty, least common denominator, personal attacks are ALL they have left.

You used to be able to avoid this kind of slop jar rhetoric by NEVER going to places like FreeRepublic.
Sadly, that doesn't work here anymore.

[HangOnKids]

95. ALL they have left

Indeed.

[1awake]

2. There are people on these forums smiling with glee at this sentence.

Kind of makes a person want to vomit.

[sabrina 1]

7. But if it happened during the Bush era, there would not be a single supporter of this outrage.

I wonder if they know that most of what he revealed was about the Bush era, which is when he was in the military and witnessed some of the war crimes they put in motion.

[1awake]

8. Yea I know, and i don't think they care. Support at all costs, screw morals and beliefs. n/t

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[sabrina 1]

9. I love that insignia ...

[1awake]

11. Feel free.. made in a fit of frustration lol. n/t

[sabrina 1]

20. Lol, very creative way to vent frustration!

[truedelphi]

108. Your graphic is awesome! n/t

[LWolf]

15. The hypocrisy is staggering.

It's repulsive, embarrassing, and hateful.

It shames us.

[sabrina 1]

21. Sociopaths don't experience that emotion. They have no shame.

[Chaco Dundee]

60. these celebrated thugs

They have no morals,ethics or common decency.

[sabrina 1]

81. They don't, they have zero capacity to empathize with other human beings. How we ever allowed

them to take over this country is beyond me. Now that we know, what can do about it.

[Chaco Dundee]

84. we can hope and edjucate.

We can not run.but we can set good examples for others,fight the good fight every Day and hope in the long run they will hang themselfs.

[sabrina 1]

87. I agree, but having tried to do that for over a decade now, I haven't seen much progress. Still

you are correct, people can change and giving up is not an option.

[Chaco Dundee]

102. 33 years

33 years I have preached our believes and values,ever since St.Ronald showed up.have not had to much succes either.but I have to believe it made a small difference.I can only keep going and hope the current state of the country will help to take congress back and propell someone with the right convictions into office.

[sabrina 1]

116. Kudos for trying. There have been a few break throughs, the Freedom Fries Congressman eg

finally saw the light when he saw the bodies of some of his constituents coming home from Bush's illegal war. He worked with Kucinich to try stop the funding for the war. So I guess it can't hurt to keep telling the truth.

[Chaco Dundee]

126. thank you.

Every little step in the right direction counts and you got to love Kucinich,one of the few who works for the people.that irak war really got to me.I spent 9 month there in 1978. Met a lot of good people who are not with us any longer because of that illegal unnecessary war.my son did 3 tours.he had no choyce.

[sabrina 1]

144. Absolutely. I am sorry about your losses, it is heart-breaking to think how many wonderful lives

were lost then and now, on all sides, for what?

I hope your son stays safe and does not have to go back anymore.

Kucinich is wonderful, but he's way ahead of his time in this regressive atmosphere. It will be a while before someone like him can make it to the WH. Someday, maybe.

Take care ...

[Chaco Dundee]

146. thanks again

I apreciate your kind words.my son is safe now.I agree on Kucinich 100%,but one can hope.
Take care as well.

[kelliekat44]

35. He didnd't "espose" any war criminals.

We already knew they were war criminals.

[sabrina 1]

39. Did we? Then what happened? Why were they not prosecuted?

I remember being told there was no evidence of war crimes.

So Manning supplied the evidence.

You know that to prosecute criminals you need evidence.

So the question in the OP was why not a single thing has been done about what he exposed.

Maybe you can tell us how in this country we get them to hold War Criminals accountable??

[totodeinhere]

49. Blind loyalty to any politician, Barack Obama or anyone else is very destructive IMO.

For instance I have Alan Grayson as my avatar. I respect him immensely as one of the few true progressives out there. But I disagree with him sometimes, and I have said so. The same should apply to Barack Obama.

[NealK]

67. +1

That's really creepy.

[bvar22]

89. Creeps me out too.

History is not their strong suit.

Historically, there have been cultures and societies that HAVE pledged their allegiance to an Individual or a Party above Principles.

Historically, they have ALL ended badly.

[sabrina 1]

69. I completely agree.

I was a supporter of Obama, convinced he was the antidote to Bush and couldn't wait for Jan 2009.

But disappointing as it was, I could not honestly defend policies I was so agains all along. I love Grayson also, but there are a few issues I don't agree with him on and will definitely say so which I am sure won't change his mind, nor will he be upset, as he is capable of taking honest criticism as far as I have seen.

[Egnever]

134. horse manure

He got off easy. 35 years and out in 7 for dumping thousands of government docs he didn't even know what the contents were. He got off easy.

The kid needs help and I hope he gets it. This sentence showed mercy he could have easily gotten 90 years.

[1awake]

137. If you think 35 years is merciful I'd hate to see your definition of what he deserved. And

if he ever does serve 35 years, there will be no reason for him to get help. His sentence is a shameful joke.

[sabrina 1]

143. Yes, the person who exposed war crimes should get life while the War Criminals are being

honored for 'their service to the country' at the WH. and with no fear of ever being held accountable.

Do you support the prosecution of War Criminals? How about Wall St. Criminals??

[City Lights]

3. Don't hold your breath. nt

[TBF]

4. You heard the ruling elite on that one - "off the table" were the words. nt

[sabrina 1]

90. That was the first warning we had of how things were going to be. She never explained that

why we were supposed to go along with abandoning the rule of law, protecting War Criminals, DEMOCRATS. She needs to do that some day, but it's a touchy subject for her. She doesn't WANT to talk about it.

[TBF]

93. I wouldn't want to talk about it either if I were her -

I can just imagine the can of worms given what we've seen thus far.

[sabrina 1]

98. She never responds to questions about that. People do ask her at protests etc, she gets

a little testy, but has never explained why it War Crimes should be taken off the table'.

[Scootaloo]

5. It's interesting, but not surprising...

It's interesting how even some Democrats find it necessary to point out that Manning 'stole' and therefore committed a crime, but never mention the crimes he witnessed and tried to stop.

Well, Sabrina, they'd have to regard those things as crimes first, wouldn't they? And as we see frequently on DU, Democrats are not immune to the utter devaluation of human life and dignity, provided the life belongs to someone in the middle east.

So yes, in their heads "embarrassing the military" is a far bigger crime than the things the military actually did - because of who the victims were.

[sabrina 1]

6. He's a hero no matter what they do to him. This will likely only make him more of a hero

around the world. Maybe someday we the people can figure out what we are doing wrong that has allowed things to get to this point.

We were so naive .... back in the old Bush days!

[cpwm17]

56. I've talked about US criminality against foreigners to right-wingers

and a typical response from them is 'I don't care.' What appear to be obvious concepts for normal and moral people with any sort of intelligence to understand is rocket science to them. The older I get the more I realize that a large percentage of people have an incredible ability to support evil.

The following video talks about the wealthy behaving worse than average income people, but I think this applies to any situation where there is a power imbalance. Some Americans may feel superior to folks in the Middle East due to the power imbalance between the countries. This leads to contempt by morally retarded people for human life in these weaker countries.

[sabrina 1]

111. Interesting post, thak ou.

The older I get the more I realize that a large percentage of people have an incredible ability to support evil.

But people are not born that way. Something has gone terribly wrong. Children have to be taught to become that kind of adult.

I believe they are being taught to pursue money, no matter wo gets hurt. And our wars are mostly racist wars.

I will watch the video. Thank you.

[dixiegrrrrl]

10. Seems our current Dem. Adminstration does indeed want to defend the Bush war criimes:

Obama DOJ Asks Court to Grant Immunity to George W. Bush For Iraq War
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11781349

[sabrina 1]

12. Amazing that we once thought that if we elected democrats things would begin to change.

So we elected Dems so they could protect the War Criminals, it seems.

Unbelievable.

[Dustlawyer]

59. What we failed to realize is that they can be bribed with loads of campaign cash just like Repugs!

Our President, Congress, much of the Judiciary and almost all media are owned by the same people. They have the laws written and passed, control who is prosecuted and who is not, and now read our private shit to keep from being caught off guard by another OWS!
We have a shadow government that is in control no matter who is "elected"!
We need PUBLICLY FUNDED ELECTIONS!!!! If we don't do something soon it will be too late, if it isn't already!

[sabrina 1]

83. Absolutely, you are 100% correct imo. Public funding, every candidate has the same

chance to win. Until this happens, the whole process is a joke.

[Enthusiast]

105. It's insane.

[myrna minx]

13. K&R. n/t

[Egalitarian Thug]

14. K&R&(a very sad)LOL.

The parasite class takes care of its own.

[Octafish]

16. K&R for Truth Tellers

Thank you, sabrina 1!

[bullwinkle428]

17. John Fugelsang was making this very same point moments ago

on the now mostly-unlistenable Stephanie Miller show.

K&R.

[OnyxCollie]

19. Yeah, Steph is one of the loudest cheerleaders.

Hal Sparks is even more annoying.

I used to listen all the time; I can't stand it now.

Can Jim Ward get his own show?

[sabrina 1]

117. Wasn't her father a Republican Senator or Congressman?

I haven't seen here in ages. Don't have any patience anymore for apologists.

[sabrina 1]

30. Didn't see that yet, but it is being noted around the Internet that the War Criminals have yet to

be prosecuted. See EarlG's 'pic' eg on the Front Page:







and Huffpo's headline here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

42. Whoever says that "Crime doesn't pay" is wrong.

[sabrina 1]

121. That should be posted all over the country. Concise and to the point and true.

[PowerToThePeople]

18. Thank you Bradley. You are a Hero!!!

http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer

[abelenkpe]

22. Are these war criminals rich?

Because in the USA if you're wealthy the laws do not apply.

[sabrina 1]

31. Here's a photo of them, I would say they are obscenley wealthy, but I could be wrong:

H/T to EarlG:

[WillyT]

23. K & R !!!

[leftstreet]

24. DURec

[Catherina]

25. The day we get to the war criminals, I'll be right there with my knitting needles

This is a shameful day for the US.

[sabrina 1]

64. Lol, and I will join you.

[MisterP]

76. deFarge joke or Demolition Man joke? but I wonder how many years Old Gimlet Eye would've gotten

[Catherina]

78. Mme deFarge. The needles have sharp sharp points

[sabrina 1]

96. So far, it looks like we'll have to wait until we can get some Real Democrats to replace the

infiltrators who are protecting these vile criminals.

[Catherina]

101. Behring Breivik killed 77 children, got less time. My Lai massacre got less time

This isn't justice. It's a farce.

If I were in a position to give Obama advice on pure strategy, it would be to pardon Manning, dismiss all charges against Snowden and bring Snowden home to work with Congress. This ship is sinking.

On a practical note, pardons for Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden, Barrett Brown, John Kiriakou etc are going to be critical election issues for me. So is prosecution of banker criminals, war criminals, and all the other criminals who robbed the people with total impunity.

[sabrina 1]

118. All those issues SHOULD be of paramount importance in the next election.

We've waited, as asked and we're still waiting, five years later. The people are going to have to change their strategy if we are ever to see the 'change' we were promised. Doing the same thing over and over again, like donating to Party Pacs which support Third Way candidates, is no longer an option eg.

[KittyWampus]

26. one problem is the war criminals you reference have incredibly good lawyers, know how to line up

a fall-guy and maintain plausible deniability.

Which is what makes Assange using Bradley Manning so odious.

[sabrina 1]

33. One little thing they have that you forgot. They have the US Government protecting them,

who has told in uncertain terms that we are going to 'look forward' from War Crimes investigations.

If only Manning had had that kind of support.

No lawyer on the face of the earth could have helped Manning. The verdict was a foregone conclusion. His CIC himself weighed in on what he thought of him.

So show me the lawyer that could go up against the most powerful government in the world and win, and I will agree.

[truedelphi]

109. In an alternate universe, the USA and its governing officials

Reflect democratic principles, and not the needs of the MIC-Surveillance crowd.

The black man heading that alt government is Harry Belafonte, and our schools are well funded, the Glass Steagall provisions protected the middle class, and life is good.

Much as is reflected by Belafonte's attitude in this videoin this song:

[KittyWampus]

119. of course the verdict was forgone HE WAS GUILTY AND ADMITTED IT.

[sabrina 1]

120. So was Ellsberg. Your point is what? Bush and Cheney were guilty too, although I'd still

prefer to see them get a FAIR TRIAL rather than have a 'foregone conclusion'. We do claim to abide by the rule of law and even scum like War Criminals deserve a fair trial.

It's telling that you admit the US has sunk so low that a Whistle Blower is convicted before he even has a trial. Worse, once the CIC called him a criminal, in a just society, that would have caused the whole ridiculous circus to have been dismissed.

But we are far from being a just society.

Manning's crime was abiding by the Oath he took when he joined the military. But you are correct, abiding by that Oath is a crime in the US.

Manning is hero. All heroes break laws for the greater good. Including the Founding Fathers who were guilty of treason. It's a good thing they avoided arrest and didn't surrender to 'face the consequences of their actions'.

[Solly Mack]

27. ...

[NuclearDem]

28. Nothing. The war criminals and the people responsible for prosecuting them

Are all part of that special club where they all look after one another.

And we're strongly considering running another one in 2016. We never learn our lesson.

[Rex]

29. We only punish the easy targets, the BFEE is way above the law.

They will never pay for their crimes, not in America. Land of Corruption.

[MotherPetrie]

32. K&R. It's a very sad day, just one of many since Obama was elected.

[malthaussen]

34. Let's get real: we will never "get" the "real war criminals."

There are insiders, and there are outsiders. The insiders may do whatever the hell they please, even attempt to overthrow the US government as Prescott Bush and his pals tried in 1933, and nothing will happen to them. But if one is an outsider, all the force of the law will be brought to bear for the slightest infraction.

Nuremberg? Don't make me laugh. The Nuremberg trials were a joke, the revenge of the Western Allies on Germany for scaring the shit out of us. The only "war criminals" who are ever prosecuted are those on the *other* side. The war criminals on our side are Heroes.

-- Mal

[HomerRamone]

36. Obama DOJ Asks Court to Grant Immunity to George W. Bush For Iraq War

http://warisacrime.org/content/obama-doj-asks-court-grant-immunity-george-w-bush-iraq-war

the Nuremberg prosecutors, particularly American Chief Prosecutor Robert Jackson, would be surprised to learn that planning a war of aggression at a private non-profit, misleading a fearful public, and foregoing proper legal authorization somehow constitute lawful employment duties for the American president and his or her cabinet.

[limpyhobbler]

40. These two stories being in the news on the same day. Now that's irony.

[sabrina 1]

43. Yes, I just saw that earlier.

Just the fact that they are asking for immunity is an acknowledgement that crimes were committed. You don't need immunity if you have done nothing wrong.

They are shamefully covering up for War Crimes and those who dragged this country into the gutter.

So, what do we do now?

[Zorra]

48. The hits just keep on comin'. If "Democrats" nominate another neocon for President

in 2016, I will be changing my voter registration to Green or Independent.

I am tired of being associated with neocons in Democratic clothing.

[sabrina 1]

122. Something has to change in the way we elect people to office. One thing we can do is

to put all our efforts and donations into the candidates, directly, that we want. Never donate again to any Pac that decides who the money should go to. And never again fall for the garbage that electing a 'someone who has a chance to win v someone you want but doesn't have a chance to win'. I will not listen that that nonsense ever again.

[dreamnightwind]

133. Maybe we need a People's PAC

Plenty of people are outraged by what's going on and would contribute if the PAC's agenda was chosen and articulated well.

[sabrina 1]

135. People have lost trust. A people's pac is a possibility, so long as the money only goes to

candidates who are not connected to Wall St or the MIC. They would have to be Progressives and it's difficult to know now if a candidate will follow through on their campaign promises. Some do, like Grayson and so far, Elizabeth Warren. We need hundreds more like that.

I also think OUR Candidates should make a huge issue out of Corporate donors, make a scandal so people actually look at who is being funded by whom and what that says about how they will vote.

This should be a huge issue in the next election.

[historylovr]

38. K & R

Sad day, indeed.

[limpyhobbler]

41. Free Bradley Manning

(and all political prisoners...)

kick/rec.

[totodeinhere]

44. I am calling upon President Barack Obama to issue a full pardon to Bradley

Manning. Anything less is totally unacceptable.

[one_voice]

45. I'm sure you can show...

where this happened. You have links, right? I've not seen anyone defending the Bush administration. But I'm not here 24/7. So, please if you have links, share them.

It's interesting how even some Democrats find it necessary to point out that Manning 'stole' and therefore committed a crime, but never mention the crimes he witnessed and tried to stop.

Most of his leaks were from the Bush era. I always wonder why any Democrat would want to defend the Bush administration

.





Military law is very different than civilian law, they take this type of thing very seriously.

I have mixed feelings on what Manning did. On one hand I know things needed to come to light, on the other, if these things are let go, the next person that decides to do this may not have good intentions. It could be a political move, or a financial move. Important things could get into the wrong hands. Then what?

I do care what happens to the country and people. I don't want the wrong people getting hold of things they shouldn't. I don't think that makes me a bad person.

I also think that there are some things that need to be exposed. Question is how to get it done without ^^^happening.

*sigh*

[sabrina 1]

52. Anyone who calls Manning a traitor is supporting the protection of Bush war criminals.

I agree with the rest of your post. And since we know that going through the proper channels, as Drake and Binney did to the letter, doesn't work either, and now everyone knows that, how do we get information on wrong-doing?

There is no way under the current system, as Drake and Binney have demostrated, to do that.

So in the absence of any proper channel for Whistle Blowers, Snowden too the most viable course of action. Whistle Blowers throughout history, when living in countries where they have no protections, generally did what he has done. They do what they consider their duty to their country, then seek asylum elsewhere.

The US has taken in many such people and still does. Their countries call them traitors just as ours is doing now to Manning and Snowden

So yes, how do we fix this broken system so that wrong doing can be reported without fear of persecution as in the case of all the most recent Whistle Blowers?

But until WE answer that question, the best course of action is for Whistle Blowers NOT to remain silent as these persecutions are designed to do, but to leave the country BEFORE publishing the leaks, and secure Asylum as quickly as possible.

The only other alternative is the first leave the country, then contact Congress as required and ask for investigations of the wrong doing or else embarrassing leaks are likely to occur.

But no Whistle Blower is safe in this country. Manning's treatment has made that crystal clear.

Military law requires that the Military abide by the Geneva Convetions and by the Law of the Land, the US Constitution.

I'm not sure how being tired in a military court should change anything regarding the law.

And, since the military refused to investigate the torture Manning reported, I'm afraid people don't have much faith in military law. They do not abide by their own laws and rules.

[NealK]

68. That "trial" was a sick joke.

[sabrina 1]

71. Yes, it was, as expected. And it's ludicrous to the use the argument that 'military takes these

things seriously' when the exact opposite is true. The ignore the law when it suits them. So their reputation for what they take seriously is pretty stained by now.

[stupidicus]

46. yep

https://pressfreedomfoundation.org/blog/2013/08/bradley-manning-did-not-hurt-united-states

[dougolat]

57. But he hurt some feelings by exposing lies.

[stupidicus]

70. and that's infinitely worse than

the millions killed and displaced in Iraq for example, as well as the sad state of affairs there tody that would not be butfor all that.

[RoccoR5955]

47. So now when

do the perpetrators of the two wars of choice get their day in court?

There's nothing more than I would rather see than the entire Bush Crime Syndicate doing a frog march!


As far as Manning goes. He should get a medal. I think there's a move on to give him the Nobel Peace Prize. That would be good. Very good.

[sabrina 1]

58. Yes, I'm going to find the petition for the Nobel Peace Prize for Manning and start

sending it around. I know a Chinese dissident who was jailed like Manning in China did receive the prize while he was in jail. That was a slap in the face to his Government.

The Chinese protested the awarding of the prize to 'a traitor to his country' they said.

I think this would be a good goal to have for now, there are no elections coming up, so we could focus on a world wide effort to get Manning awarded the Nobel Peace Price, he deserves it.

[blackspade]

50. Big K&R!

I feel horrible for him. The justice 'system' completely failed.
He should have walked based on the torture he endured.

[forestpath]

51. K&R

[liberal_at_heart]

54. Unfortunately Manning doesn't have the kind of power and money it takes to buy his freedom. Bush and

Cheney do have the kind of power and money it takes to buy their freedom. That's what happens when you have an oligarchy government.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. They are not defending the bush administration

They are defending policy positions they agree with.

[Dragonfli]

72. That clearly is the elephant in the room that both the defenders of the vindictive punishment of any

that would reveal the criminal behavior done in the name of Government and those that would defend such whistle blowers for providing the evidence needed to bring such politically powerful government officials to justice continue to dance around.

The vindictive that would punish and make examples of informants that would "rat out" powerful criminals like to tell themselves (ironically) that it is all about justice and the theft of documents by criminals while ignoring the innocence or guilt of those implicated by the leaks and never even considering that the Administration agrees with the crimes and is defending it's own position.

The defenders of the whistle blowers that reveal serious crimes like to tell themselves that it is cowardice or a misplaced sense of pragmatism (politically a bad move to prosecute a political rival even if the crimes are evident and among the worst that could be committed) to blame for the protection of the Bush and Banker criminals.

Even among those that want war crimes prosecuted and whistle blowers protected,

most are not comfortable facing the fact that it is not cowardice or political strategy that causes the Administration to protect war criminals while making examples of those that reveal the crimes but rather the simple and obvious motivation for such actions: The Administration is just protecting it's own policy positions.

Tell me Nadin, is it your journalistic training or personal experiences growing up that enabled such clarity that you so easily see straight to the core? As I have said before, you appear to be an honorable journalist and therefore condemned to be a failure in your field as Journalistic success in this age rewards the likes of David Gregory with wealth and a platform, while those with integrity will be blacklisted from success at the higher levels of your profession because of your honesty - that needs to change if a free press is ever to be a force for good again in this country.

Just wanted you to know that I appreciate your dedication knowing such qualities are punished rather than encouraged these days.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. I guess is all that reading of history

And how people have gotten persecuted for being honest that really made me have a clear view.

Also I do not fall easily for the easy way out... As to the state of US journalism, except for a brief moment, I have to question if it was ever truly free.

[sabrina 1]

124. Whether they are doing it consciously or unconsciously, when they agree to silence and

punish people like Manning, most of whose leaks were from the Bush years, they ARE protecting the Bush administration. And if the leaks had happened in the Spring of 2008 et, it would be hard to find a single Democrat who would not be supporting Manning and Snowden for that matter.

[nadinbrzezinski]

127. This is where we differ...I gave up on the D-R mythology

And covering politics has made me even more skeptical of it in key items, such as national security and trade for example.

[sabrina 1]

129. You're not alone on that anymore.. I am hearing this from more and more people on both

sides. They have lost faith in those they though represented them.

I think this is the reason for the downfall of Limbaugh, it doesn't work anymore, getting the Left all upset. They don't react to what used to get them all excited, pushing the L/R battle.

However, I was not referring to party politics re Bush/Cheney, I was referring to the crimes they committed. Democrats used to be united that when Public Officials commit crimes of such magnitude they should be punished. So when a Whistle Blower comes forward and provides evidence of those crimes, to oppose that Whistle Blower is essentially protecting the criminals they have exposed.

[nadinbrzezinski]

130. Why would they be upset?

I will be kind, somebody has honorable politicians (snort) from both parties by the short hairs...due to massive NSA spying. See 2008 massive trolling of the area code 202, an accident my dying ass.

Not so nice, they are part of an exclusive club and agree that we need to keep the proles quiet and under control.

The truth is somewhere in there.

And covering local politics, it's that bad also locally.

[sabrina 1]

136. They were distracted by trivia. 'Did you see what Limbaugh said today about Liberals'

Those kinds of posts used to get a huge amount of comments and attention. But not anymore, people have finally begun to realize that this left/right thing was manufactured and it worked for far too long. What they fear most, the Ruling Class, is that the people will unite against them. It is happening on certain issues, which is why we see the huge effort to smear those who seem able to cross political lines when an issue is important enough.

As far as the NSA having a hold over politicians, I wouldn't doubt it for a minute.

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. Rush who?

I really have not paid attention to him in a long time. Though he will lose his air, not bad. Except for the armies of clones that is.

[sabrina 1]

140. He served his purpose, his schtick isn't working anymore.

The only time I ever even thought about him was when someone did what I just stated, breathlessly linked to his latest attack on 'liberals'. Keep the people divided. It seems we passing beyond that now. The effort to keep us divided is intense though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. I'm not sure it is no longer working

Check the responses to this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023513447

And this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023511272

As long as people are incapable of peeling the first layer of the onion and get stuck on appeals to emotion and the reptilian brain...(and the personal attacks are just epic, but we have no cyberstalking here)



I just laugh, at them...these days.

[joanbarnes]

61. I am humbled by his awesome bravery. He will always be MY hero.

I support him for the (real) Nobel Peace Prize.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. See Henry Kissinger for an example of our "justice" system.

One of many.

[gopiscrap]

63. Manning made TPTB look bad

that's why they fucked him!

[DirkGently]

65. I read recently this is 17 times the sentence

of any previous conviction for leaking classified information to the press.

This leak was treated as "espionage" and "treason" despite being neither.

This is one several large, dark steps on the road to crippling the press and silencing opposition.

Bet the Republicans can't WAIT to take the reins.



Imagine Ted Cruz or Rand Paul with these powers. Tell us again how destroying this person for getting the truth to us was justified.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. You know what? I don't care for the letter behind the name

It's empire...period...it makes zero difference.

[DirkGently]

77. Good point. But those letters may be useful in helping others frame

the issues. We know already the same forms of abuse were universally condemned in this forum when they occurred under a Republican.

It follows, then, that anyone who thinks these thinks are okay now, under a Democratic executive they like, but didn't like them under a Republican they didn't, might want to imagine that way off in the future of 2016, they might again consider these things more critically.

[NealK]

79. Perfect example:

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't be changed to make that legal.

ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM
Original message
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM by ProSense

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't
be changed to make that legal. The Republicans are trying to pull a fast one with this "law change" tactic by framing the illegal spying as warrantless spying on terrorists; therefore, the law is being changed to give Bush the authority to spy on terrorist. Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal. Bush committed crimeS by illegal spying on Americans and breaking existing FISA laws.

I'm sure all criminals would love to have a law passed that retroactively absolves them of their crimes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2461323

[DirkGently]

113. Excellent research!

[NealK]

114. Well, to be honest someone posted the quote the other day.

All I did was search for the actual post and copy the link. Incredible how some people can radically change their opinion isn't it?

[sabrina 1]

142. Unbelievable. I am going to have to bookmark this because that very Amendment is the same one that

they are now using to defend the Massive Surveillance of Americans, by saying 'it's legal'.

This is funny in a way, back then I was saying exactly the same thing. And I just said it again to one of the defenders of the Surveillance when they used that same law to justify it.

I'd like to know what happened to make the law that 'can never be changed to make that legal' suddenly became the actual law they are now using to defend the very same crimes.

My head is spinning!

[sabrina 1]

80. More and more people are beginning to see that. They are getting careless. For a while we

played along with the right/left game but things are shifting now and it looks like they realize it and are getting desperate to keep the people divided. It's now working.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. What they fear is a voter revolt

And if one comes it won't be pretty.

[woo me with science]

73. K&R

[Autumn]

82. It breaks my heart.

rec

[sabrina 1]

85. You are not alone. We have become what we said we were fighting.

I am still hopeful that one day soon, we will have a Democratic government and Manning will be rewarded for his service to this country.

For now, we have ost our way.

[malthaussen]

91. Either they never read Nietzsche...

... or they don't see the problem with becoming monsters.

I still think "We had to destroy the village to save it" is one of the more profound statements made in my lifetime.

-- Mal

[sabrina 1]

104. Blind greed and lust for power. They don't see or care about anything but controlling the

world they way their sick minds view it.

But the people are to blame also, apathy and 'patriortism' and 'partisanship' helped the 'monsters' to take us to where we are.

[colsohlibgal]

92. Outrageous

It seems to me Manning has paid dearly already. 35 years is beyond ridiculous.

Of course the war crimes perpetrators, the war profiteers from the Bush administration, the people who lied us into an offensive war - nothing to see there I guess.

Totally screwed up.

Mike Papantonio filled in for Ed Schultz on his radio show today and just went off, a real pap attack. He said he's always discouraged 3rd party talk but thinks it's time maybe for labor and greens and true liberals to forge a new party, a real liberal party.

I'm pretty much with him, I'm tired of neo liberalism, which is actually republican lite. Obama has talked a good game but...Reagan put crooked banksters in jail, Dubya even did it too - Obama has only fined some big banks a few million, like fining most of us $5. Oh he's gone after a few flunkies but that's all. And he's all in on free trade and there is a lulu of one pending, the TPP which has awful parts having nothing to do with free trade.

[hack89]

94. The shame of it all is that if he had followed the whistle blower laws

he would not be going to prison.

Julian Assange did this man no favors.

[sabrina 1]

103. That is pure BS. See Drake and Binney. whose revelations should have sparked

nationwide investigations, ended up being persecuted for years while the Perps STILL have not been prosecuted.

Let's stop the pretense that there is any chance of justice for the elite in this country.

[hack89]

106. The Military Whistleblower Protection Act of 1988 doesn't apply to them

now does it?

All Manning had to do was take his evidence to a member of Congress and he could not have been prosecuted. Read the law.

[sabrina 1]

128. Really? All he had to do was what DRAKE AND BINNEY DID!!

Are you serious? Drake followed the rules for Whistle Blowers to the max. For his trouble he was persecuted for five years, despite having done nothing illegal. His long, honorable career in the Military and in Intelligence was destroyed, his reputation was ruined, his family put under intense stress, his finances ruined.

Sure 'all you have to do is go talk to a member of Congress'. That would be funny if it wasn't so sad that you actually still have faith in the 'rule of law' for ordinary people.

Drake spoke recently to the Press Club about Snowden. He sure didn't advise him to do what he had done.

Manning's treatment will ensure that future Whistle Blowers will do what Whistle Blowers from other oppressive nations have always done, they will leave the country and seek asylum elsewhere.

[hack89]

138. No - he was persecuted for leaking information to a reporter. Which is illegal.

see a pattern here?

[sabrina 1]

145. Backtracking now? You said that the way to go was to follow the Whistle Blower Protection rules.

I pointed out that that doesn't work, see Binney and Drake.

If a Whistle Blower reveals information of wrong doing, whether s/he goes to a Reporter, see Ellsberg, or not, he should NOT be prosecuted what he reveals is true.

Ellsberg didn't spend years in jail, AND he was out on bail while his case was going forward. AND what he did compared to Manning, as Ellsberg himself has pointed out, was far more 'illegal' since he published TOP SECRET information. Manning chose not to do that, even though he could have.

If the leaks expose corruption and crimes the Whistle Blower should be treated as a WITNESS in the trials of the perps.

But that would be in a country that respects the rule of law, a country that prosecutes War Criminals, not those who expose them.

And this is not that country.

[hack89]

147. Instead of that imaginary law in your head

perhaps you should look at the actual text of the whistle blower law. No way does it allow leaking information to reporters. Especially classified data. He followed the law to the letter unto.the point he talked to a reporter.

[sabrina 1]

148. Maybe you should look at the people who did everything according to the rules of the Whistle

Blower laws. They did NOT leak material to the media, they contacted a Congress memeber and followed all of the rules as instructed.

And what happened to them? They were persecuted and prosecuted, in Drake's case for five years, had his life destroyed, his long, honorable career in service to his country, RUINED and his his family and finances destroyed.

And what happened about the information re wrong doing he reported, NOTHING.

Now you can drop the pretense that any US Whistle Blower has the option of 'following the law'. The rule of law is GONE and that is why Whistle Blowers will be seeking asylum elsewhere if they are smart from now on.

Blame the Government for that. No one trusts them anymore.

[hack89]

149. Drake leaked material to Siobhan Gorman of The Baltimore Sun

as you were saying?

[winter is coming]

97. Ever heard the saying, "Justice may be blind, but it can smell money"? n/t

[sabrina 1]

99. No, but I will remember it. It sounds pretty accurate.

[warrprayer]

100. It seems to me

... the fact that he was tortured should have been grounds for his immediate release, with compensation awarded for same.

[NealK]

107. Kick!

[KoKo]

110. Good Question and what about the Torturers...the Multi-National Corporations..the

Think Tanks supported by BIG MONEY Foundations...and on and on and on.

WHAT ABOUT THEM? ACCOUNTABILITY? WHY NOT?

[4bucksagallon]

112. So he was convicted of "whistleblowing"?

"He was convicted in July of 20 specifications, the equivalent of criminal counts in a civilian court, including seven that dealt with espionage and others that dealt with theft." So theft and espionage are now whistleblowing, interesting who would have guessed. LOL!
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/21/20118798-manning-gets-35-years-in-prison-for-massive-leak-of-us-secrets?lite

[sabrina 1]

115. Whistle Blowing is now terrorism in the US.

[flvegan]

123. I voted for Kucinich.

Sadly, the halfwits and idiots of this "party" chose to choose the folks handed to them by the very folks they hate.

Suck it up, buttercup. It's the bed you made. Congratulations, you still have something to bitch about.

[sabrina 1]

125. That's what every Democrat should do next time. If, and I can't see it not happening, they

push more Third Way candidates on the people, we should pick some good Progressives and write them in.

I will never support a Third Way candidate, never have. Well, never did it intentionally.

[totodeinhere]

131. The Obama Administration is going full speed ahead on prosecutions under the Espionage Act.

As a candidate in 2008, Barack Obama praised instances of whistle-blowing as "acts of courage and patriotism." Since becoming president, however, his administration has charged more people under the Espionage Act than all other presidents combined.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/22/daniel-ellsberg-bradley-manning_n_3793199.html

[sabrina 1]

132. Sometimes I read comments like that from Obama, which is why I supported him. Then

I hear comments from him now, and see him acting completely the opposite way that we thought he would, and I wonder if it is the same person.

It will make me very leery of any politician ever again.